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Reno
29th July 2010, 3:03 PM
Get a single pokemon rated here. Follow the same format as team rates, just with one Pokemon. Once again make sure that you are not posting something that is bog standard or a copy from the analysis.

Pokemon @ Item
Ability:
EVs:
Nature:
- move
- move
- move
- move

*Detailed description of the Pokemon's purpose to the team*

Here are examples of what is and isn't acceptable:


What's acceptable:

Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SDef / 176 Spe
Nature: Jolly [+Spe, -SAtk]

Iron Head
Thunder Wave
Fire Punch
Stealth Rock

Thunderwave Jirachi, as a lead, has been successful for my team. The purpose of Jirachi is to get Stealth Rocks up, and once that's done, Pokemon such as Gyarados, Dragonite, or DD Babari Berry Tyranitar that switch in to try and set up on my lead are immediately rendered useless thanks to Thunderwave. My game plan is to set up stealth rocks first, and then Thunderwave to scout my opponent's team/cripple any sweeper hoping to use Jirachi as set up bait. With Choice Scarf being popular on lead sets, I decided to take advantage of its popularity, and it has paid off in every game I have been in.

Jirachi has been EVed to top Lucario in speed and use Fire Punch, or at the very least stop him completely with Thunderwave. Sometimes, getting a burn hax via Fire Punch helps, but as I can't KO Lucario with it, I tend to play it safe with T-Wave in most games. Either method is fine as Lucario remains crippled at the end of the day.



What's not ok:

Inferape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
-Stealth Rocks
-Close Combat
-Fake Out
-Fire Blast

Standard lead, sets up rocks and breaks sash for my opponent.

Both sets are fine as far as formatting is concerned, but the second set will likely get your post deleted and/or you will get an infraction due to not enough information being given. The first set had a different kind of formatting, but it stuck to the basic template outlined in this post and had a long enough description, telling us what purpose it has on the team etc. That being said, even though you have to follow the template, you can customize how it looks, providing all information is viewable.

flyingchicken
29th July 2010, 5:33 PM
Well I have this modest-natured Dratini that I want to train. However, it has sucky IV's in HP, Atk, and Def, and good IV's in Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, and Speed.
So I want it to be a special sweeper.

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/200 Spe/56 HP
Modest nature (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Agillity

This is the first set I'm considering. I know almost nothing about "this amount of EV's will make so-and-so beat so-and-so", I just know what they are/how to train for them. I figure some HP EV's can't hurt, even with the low IV. Max Sp. Atk, the rest goes into Speed.
Dragon Pulse, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt provide good coverage. Agility boosts its speed. It has leftovers because it didn't eat all the food yesterday.

Another set:

Dragonite @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/200 Spe/56 HP
Modest nature (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Same EV spread, although more might be invested in Speed.
Dragonite has plenty of options for those last 3 move slots: T-bolt, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Surf, Dragon Pulse, and Focus Blast. I just don't know which ones to choose.

I'm also thinking about more of a Special Defensively based Dragonite, but I haven't made a set on it yet.

I'd really appreciate it if I got some advice on what to do.

Electric
29th July 2010, 10:00 PM
I'm pretty new to competitive battling, so please excuse my noobiness. I'm going to start with Breloom since I need something easy to go with, then I'll move onto other Pokemon.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge
- Drain Punch

Toxic Orb and Poison Heal goes together obviously.

EVs: Ok since I'm new at this, my instinct is to put 252 on 2 stats and 4 on the third stat, but I've seen stuff like "40 HP and 236 Defense" and I don't understand why that happens. Anyways the 252 Attack is to make it be able to KO many Pokemon. 252 Speed is needed so that I can make Spore hit before the opponent. I don't care where the other 4 EVs go, so I just put it to HP.

Nature: I wanted Adamant at first, but then I noticed that Breloom has pretty low Speed, and that's essential for Spore to hit first. I'm still pondering this, but I just can't decide between Adamant and Jolly.

Moves:

Spore is to put the opponent to sleep...

Seed Bomb gives 120 power due to STAB.

Stone Edge counters Fire and Flying types (but they might hit first! So that's why I'm stuck between Adamant and Jolly.)

Drain Punch... well Breloom doesn't have Close Combat so I guess this. With Drain Punch, Breloom can also heal with this and it has 90 power due to STAB. I love STAB.

So yeah... ;286;

3lmi
30th July 2010, 6:03 AM
@FlyingChicken

Ice Beam from a Max SpA, Modest Empoleon with LO on a Max SpD, Max HP, Max SpD Calm Dragonite = 99.5% - 117.1%

Which is a OHKO with SR, I think you should keep it as a AgiliNite(First Set).

@Electric (nice name)

It is nice to see new people posting in the CSR, and don't worry there isn't that many jerks here so they will understand you are new. I didn't know alot about EVs too till I took a Tutor Course in it and further studing. People sometimes split the EVs to make sure it survives 2HKO, or 3HKO etc from a Pokemon, to beat other Speed Tiers and other reasons. I'm not to familiar with Brelooms, so can someone else rate him?


I have been playing around with this Floatzel for my RD team(will upload in a day or two).

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/419.png
Floatzel @ Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 16 Spe

~ Waterfall
~ Rain Dance
~ Brick Break / Ice Punch
~ Protect

This Floatzel is to kill the most used UU lead, Ambipom. On the first turn I would use Protect (no fake out), then Rain Dance + Watefall. I can't choose between BB and IP, I will still test it further.

Watefall on Lead Ambipom - 54.6% - 64.3%
In Rain - 81.4% - 95.9%

It is not enough for a OHKO even in rain, but with SR damage, I don't think it will be coming out again.

spareux
30th July 2010, 6:09 PM
dragonite has some handy support moves and resistances that can be utilised in a fun set, though obviously one should be more inclined to focus on its attacking potential.

drain punch on breloom (BRELOOOOOM) is a bit gimmicky. if you want more HP you can go spore/sub/punch/seed, which works a bit like sceptile though obviously breloom has an easier time swapping in. people run it with a lot of HP and defence because it makes it a hell of a lot easier for breloom to actually make good use of its handy resistances, as it has piss poor defences.

Puzzler2
31st July 2010, 10:37 PM
Swampert @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Quirky (No effect)
EVs 252hp 152def 100atk

-Substitute
-Earthquake
-Waterfall
-Ice Beam

This is my first real try at making a competetive pokemon. I made this swampert to be good at offence and defence, I maxed out HP first, then split between Atk and Def. Ice beam is for grass types and also dragon types. Earthquake and Waterfall are its main attacking moves, and I threw in substitute for a defensive move, although with Life Orb that damage could add up.

Any advice or critique of this set would be helpful.

spareux
1st August 2010, 2:39 AM
Substitute + life orb is going to wear away Swampert too quickly to make it of any use whilst it's still going to be countered by the usual suspects.

If you really wanted to try an all attacking pert you'd be better putting something over that substitute. I can't remember off the top of my head all its offensive options but I believe focus punch, hydro pump, hidden power [electric] and hammer arm. And change the nature to Relaxed - natures that give no boosts should never be used.
If you're simply after an offensive pert, you could try a Choice Bander or the Curse variant. Otherwise, just go the standard defensive route, which has handy support options whilst still packing a punch with STAB Earthquake.

palingensia
1st August 2010, 2:46 AM
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/200 Spe/56 HP
Modest nature (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Agillity

vs

Dragonite @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/200 Spe/56 HP
Modest nature (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Agility set is probably better, as a scarfer would want to be mixed.


Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP/252 Atk/244 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
- Spore
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge/Substitute
- Focus Punch
Fix'd in bold.


http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/419.png
Floatzel @ Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 16 Spe

~ Waterfall
~ Rain Dance
~ Brick Break / Ice Punch
~ Protect
Life Orb Return on your Floatzel: 299 Atk vs 146 Def & 374 HP (102 Base Power): 292 - 345 (78.07% - 92.25%)
Life Orb U-turn on your Floatzel: 299 Atk vs 146 Def & 374 HP (70 Base Power): 134 - 158 (35.83% - 42.25%)

You don't get ko'd, but you take a hell of a lot from Return and even U-turn does quite a lot. Not the best of anti-Ambipom leads methinks.

Swampert @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Quirky (No effect)
EVs 252hp 152def 100atk

-Substitute
-Earthquake
-Waterfall
-Ice Beam
If you want a defensive but offensive Swampert, CursePert is probably the way to go.

Swampert @Leftovers
Torrent | Careful | 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpD
~ Curse
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Waterfall

Zorkzedork
1st August 2010, 8:43 PM
Munchlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick fat
EVs: HP/52 Atk/104 Def/200 SpD/152
Nature Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Curse
- Return
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Random set for UU really I chose EV's at random...

YOOMTAH
1st August 2010, 9:09 PM
This OU antilead I use very often:

Gallade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Steadfast
EV's: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP, Jolly (+spe, -spatk)
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Counter

Shadow Sneak pwns Azelf, Close Combat hits a lot. Ice Punch is for Aerodactyl and Roserade leads. Counter for other antileads.

palingensia
2nd August 2010, 9:40 AM
Munchlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick fat
EVs: HP/52 Atk/104 Def/200 SpD/152
Nature Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Curse
- Return
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Random set for UU really I chose EV's at random...
No recovery on something so frail (135/40/80 isn't that good by UU standards) isn't such a good idea. Speaking of being frail, it'll need at least 2-3 Curses under its belt before it even starts to survive physical attacks; whilst it would have a hard time not being 2HKO'd by most STAB special attacks. I'd rather use Miltank any day.

This OU antilead I use very often:

Gallade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Steadfast
EV's: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP, Jolly (+spe, -spatk)
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Counter

Shadow Sneak pwns Azelf, Close Combat hits a lot. Ice Punch is for Aerodactyl and Roserade leads. Counter for other antileads.
Hm... Sure it beats the two common Taunt leads, but bulky leads give it hell; Metagross and Swampert in particular. I would consider Taunt on it over Counter so it can at least stop them from setting up Stealth Rock. Or you could replace Ice Punch so you can Taunt then Counter their attack. Seems relatively ok, but not as good as Machamp.

BaldWombat
2nd August 2010, 4:44 PM
***For the Raters***



For the Thread Maker (http://serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=8422123&postcount=1)



In summary:

Before rating, read the entire first post.
Do not post if you have little knowledge of competitive battling.
Do not flame/troll.




1. Before rating, read the entire first post.

You will look silly if you rate or criticise something without first reading the thread creator’s reasoning. While not infractable unless repeatedly done, this will most likely damage your credibility as a rater.



2. If you are not knowledgeable in DPPt Competitive Battling, DO NOT RATE.

The last thing people want when posting a team is bad advice. Another reason to avoid posting, is that sometimes people post their own RMT with little knowledge and accept any suggestion that comes their way. This will only result in a negative experience for everyone involved.

Continually doing this will result in harsher punishments. Simply take the hint and polish your knowledge by reading some articles.
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The forum has had an influx of people with little knowledge of competitive battling spreading bad advice and trying to prove themselves right with flawed logic or claimed damage calculations. From now on, this sort of thing will be punished and monitored very strictly and with great vigilance, and the punishments will be handed out swiftly.



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Filler post

Blue Harvest
2nd August 2010, 8:15 PM
I have a weird idea that I haven't had time to test, but the numbers look promising-ish. I'll post it in my next RMT if it doesn't suck.

Porygon Z @ Chople Berry
Modest - Download
252 HP / 144 Defense / 104 Special Defense / 8 Special Attack

Tri-Attack
Shadow Ball
HP Fighting / Charge Beam
Recover

A common misconception is that Porygon Z is incredibly frail, when in reality its actually bulkier than Starmie and has just one weakness. The key to this set is Download and Recover. Download gives me a Special Attack boost when the defending pokemon has less Special Defense than physical. Zapdos, Swampert, Vaporeon (when Bold), Scizor, Skarmory etc. Most of the metagame is physically defensive, even mixed sweepers run Rash and Naive to avoid the physical hits they would take. When defensive stats are tied, I get a Special Attack boost by default (Lucario, Heatran, Kingdra, some Infernape etc).

I'm feeling lazy so I'll make this quick. Downloaded Tri-Attack will 2HKO Swampert while the other moves round off the coverage. Shadow Ball will beat Celebi while HP Fighting kills Heatran, Tyranitar and even physical Skarmory. The Special Attack isn't truly massive, but its still enough to OHKO frail pokes like Infernape and 2HKO bulky things. In other words, it does what it has to. Downloaded Tri-Attack hits harder than Mixape's LO Close Combat!

Porygon Z can take retaliatory hits fairly well. It is guarenteed survival against Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge, +1 LO Gyarados Waterfall, LO Infernape and Heatran Fire Blasts, Gengar Focus Blast and even +0 LO Lucario Close Combat AFTER Stealth Rocks. Obviously this will put Porygon Z near death but he is capable of OHKOing all of them back (with a download boost and in Heatran's case, 20% prior damage). This is nice in a pinch, but the reason for Recover is Porygon Z's fantastic ability to be 3-4HKOed by just about every bulky pokemon around. Celebi, Swampert, Skarmory, Zapdos, Vaporeon, Impish Skarmory, Spinner Starmie, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Cresselia, Magnezone, and Rotom all fail to 2HKO Porygon Z while you happily KO them back in one or two shots (even Cresselia is 2HKOed) Recover stalling when needed.

Porygon Z can 1-2HKO most of the metagame with almost no fear of a retaliatory OHKO from big sweepers while weaker walls barely break 30%.

EH?

**Charge Beam is an option to beat Blissey with (sort of) and also take on Specially Defensive Skarmory. Charge Beam will also bring Tri-Attacks power beyond anything else seen in OU after one boost, but at the cost of coverage (you can drop Shadow Ball too).

RedBladeMF
3rd August 2010, 3:25 PM
I have a Froslass that looks like this:

;478; Froslass @ Focus Sash / Bright Powder
Nature: Timid
EVs: 255 Speed , 255 HP
Ability: Snow coat
-Confuse Ray
-Hail
-Toxic
-Blizzard

Froslass' purpose in my team is very simply to piss off the opponent. It's moveset works on basically anyone but steel-types and perfect accuracy moves.

I kinda like this moveset. Here's how it works: First confuse ray. I probably attack first because of high speed. If the opponent hits despite confusion, Focus sash would guarantee two turns, but only work once. Then Hail, because it raises my evasion. With Bright powder which lowers the opponent's evasion, I would have slim chances getting hit. Then toxic, because the opponent suffers a lot of damage per turns in combination with hail and confuse ray. And finally Blizzard, because it deals 120 damage, with a STAB bonus for Ice-type and gets a 100 accuracy with Hail.

So the question is, is this moveset any good? And which is better: Focus Sash/Band, Bright powder, or something totally different?

jesusfreak94
3rd August 2010, 7:40 PM
That Frosslass would make a good annoyer. If you put him on a team with Abomasnow, then you can forgo Hail for Thunder Wave for more annoying people. Then you might have to replace Toxic, or just save it for those immune to paralysis. And yeah, go Bright Powder. It adds to the hax fun:)

Also, I have this great sneak attack Gengar set. Would it be good?

Gengar@Focus Sash
Timid
Levitate
EVs: 252Spe, 252SpA, 4Spd
Moves:
-Counter
-Destiny Bond
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball

The main job is to look like a sweeping Gengar by killing something with Shadow Ball or Focus Blast. Then when the opponent brings in their next Pokemon, I can hopefully pull out Counter (my first trap) and kill it, if it's a physical attacker. Then, with proper prediction, I can spring the final trap and take out something else with Destiny Bond. I have got all 3 kills before. Any way I could improve it? Any preferred teammate options?

cakedup
3rd August 2010, 9:51 PM
I want to see what everyone else thinks on which would be better for HAR.
My first pick was Honchkrow, but now that Dragonite has Extremespeed I think he would be better. This is for OU singles.

Honchkrow w/Super Luck and Life Orb
Lonely 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA
Sucker Punch
Heat Wave
Roost
Brave Bird

Or

Dragonite with Life Orb
Lonely 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA
Outrage/Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor
Fire Blast/Fire Punch
Roost
ExtremeSpeed

Neither of these are meant to be the main sweeper, just something to annoy my opponent with. I believe it should keep the pressure on my opponent

jesusfreak94
3rd August 2010, 10:05 PM
Hey! Remember me?

Personally, I believe that the best kind of hit-and-run Pokemon is one with U-Turn or Baton Pass. Still, out of these two Dragonite would make the better one. Run Outrage/Fire Blast/Roost/Extremespeed and you should be good.

xLilith
3rd August 2010, 10:12 PM
If you're going to hit and run, why are you using Roost?

Outrage/Fire Blast/ExtremeSpeed is fine, but add Earthquake for the last spot so Heatran doesn't wall.

4kjayhawks
3rd August 2010, 10:20 PM
If you're going to hit and run, why are you using Roost?

Outrage/Fire Blast/ExtremeSpeed is fine, but add Earthquake for the last spot so Heatran doesn't wall.

You can't really hit-and-run with Outrage either. I think the best user of "hit-and-run" are choiced

jesusfreak94
3rd August 2010, 10:43 PM
He said he wanted it to be annoying, so I thought Roosting back to full health would be pretty annoying. Still, a choice set would be better for hit-n-run. Try Outrage/Earthquake/Superpower/Extremespeed

Blue Harvest
3rd August 2010, 10:53 PM
Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Superpower / Roost for Dragonite.

It can 2HKO nearly everything in the game and stays alive with Roost almost indefinately. Its able to rip a team in half if you play it right.

Choice Banders kind of suck in this metagame.

FroggestSpirit
3rd August 2010, 11:28 PM
Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SDef
Nature: Careful [+SDef, -SAtk]
Leech Seed
Stone Edge/Rockslide
Protect
Sky Uppercut/Seed Bomb

The main part of this physical sweeper, is it gets baton passed in from a few defense boosts, and a pokemon holding toxic orb. Now this is where things get annoying, Breloom should open up with leech seed, now getting 3 healings per turn (leech seed, poison heal, and leftovers) ontop of that, throwing in the occasional protects should buy time to heal more health if needed, but keeping in mind that his defense will be a bit boosted, he's gonna be annoying to eliminate. Now, he still has the 4x weakness to flying, and thats where Stone Edge or Rock Slide come in (depending how much accuracy you want to sacrafice for power) Skarmory, Gligar, and Gliscor are basically the only flying types you would have to worry about, ast their other types will dull out rock type moves. other than that, you can get a STAB off of Sky uppercut of Seed Bomb and take advantage of breloom's high attack. This is only a theory of mine, but i'm working on testing it out. what do you guys think? I forgot to mention, but the EV spread pretty much evens out his defenses

windsong
3rd August 2010, 11:51 PM
Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SDef
Nature: Careful [+SDef, -SAtk]
Leech Seed
Stone Edge/Rockslide
Protect
Sky Uppercut/Seed Bomb

Honestly, the set is pretty awful. Poison isn't Baton Passed, like you imply when you describe the set, which basically means that you need to use a Toxic Orb over Leftovers.

In addition, Breloom needs to use Spore. This isn't a disputable fact; Breloom is almost useless without Spore. You could try running the more standard Leech Seed/Spore/Sub/Protect, which is the standard SubSeeder with Protect > Focus Punch, but personally I think that Focus Punch is far better. I don't really see anything significant in the EVs either.

FroggestSpirit
3rd August 2010, 11:55 PM
^^; my bad... I must have over looked poison not getting baton passed

Bagel
4th August 2010, 2:11 AM
Torterra @ Shell Bell
Ability:Overgrow
EVs: HP/332 A/263 D/267
Nature: Impish(+Defense, -S. Attack)
- Earthquake
- Rock Climb
- Bullet Seed/ Facade
- Frenzy Plant

This torterra was my first pokemon and my best. I basically use Earthquake to beat almost everything. (Stupid Levitate.) I use Rock Climb on the flyers and levitators. I'm thinking if I can get my hands on a flame orb, I'll teach him Facade. What do you think?Look, I know the Bullet Seed sounds stupid, no? Well, In two turns, I beat a Swampert with it.

windsong
4th August 2010, 2:27 AM
Torterra @ Shell Bell
Ability:Overgrow
EVs: HP/332 A/263 D/267
Nature: Impish(+Defense, -S. Attack)
- Earthquake
- Rock Climb
- Bullet Seed/ Facade
- Frenzy Plant


No relevance in competitive battling whatsoever. Frenzy Plant (and other Hyper Beam type moves) are completely useless. And you don't have the correct EVs, clearly, just the stats (and even those seem completely off...especially since you only posted HP, Attack, and Defense). Bullet Seed sucks and is outclassed by pretty much any other move, and Leftovers are superior to Shell Bell. Overall? The standard sets are far better. All of them.

xLilith
4th August 2010, 2:30 AM
Um, that set is horrible in competitive play. Wood Hammer > Frenzy Plant, EQ is fine, something like Leech Seed or Sub > Bullet Seed, and Sword's Dance/Rock Polish > Rock Climb to give you some speed. Stone Edge will do better against Flying types, and Flame Orb on Torterra just for the sake of using boosted Facades is a bad idea.

3lmi
4th August 2010, 4:32 AM
My RD team as failed me, so I'ma make a new OU team. I'm going to start with a lead.

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd

~ Stealth Rocks
~ U-Turn
~ Explosion
~ Protect

My variation to a Lead Azelf. I would first use Protect if I knew I Fake Out was coming, to ensure my Sash isn't broken. I would then use SR then bang the place up with Explosion or U-Turn to bring him out later. EVs for max Speed and Attack, leftover for SpD.

xLilith
4th August 2010, 4:36 AM
If you plan on Exploding early, use Fire Blast > U-Turn and change the nature, and add the extra EV's in to special attack. That way, you do decent damage to Skarm/Meta/Rachi/Luke leads. Tran walls you anyway, so set Rocks up and explode.

3lmi
4th August 2010, 4:43 AM
If you plan on Exploding early, use Fire Blast > U-Turn and change the nature, and add the extra EV's in to special attack. That way, you do decent damage to Skarm/Meta/Rachi/Luke leads. Tran walls you anyway, so set Rocks up and explode.

Why would I need to explode when I could switch out with U-Turn? I know this Azelf is weak to Steel, that's why I put on U-Turn, to run away when the going gets tough all I need Azelf is for SR and to wear down the team.

xLilith
4th August 2010, 4:44 AM
Well, that suggestion was only if you plan exploding early as I said. Otherwise, I like the set.

windsong
4th August 2010, 5:13 AM
My RD team as failed me, so I'ma make a new OU team. I'm going to start with a lead.

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd

~ Stealth Rocks
~ U-Turn
~ Explosion
~ Protect

The main problem with this set? You gain the ability to beat lead Infernape and the rarely seen lead Weavile in exchange for allowing Forretress, Skarmory, Roserade, Ninjask, Heatran, Swampert, Gliscor, and pretty much anything that sets up and is outsped and Taunted by standard lead Azelf to set up. However, it is a good idea, IMO, but it would work better with a bulky lead Azelf (something like 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe) and Taunt > Explosion (or U-Turn).

cakedup
4th August 2010, 5:26 AM
You all have very interesting points but two other members of my team arent meant to survive for long. I thought about trading outrage for draco meteor and fire blast for fire punch.

FroggestSpirit
4th August 2010, 11:05 AM
Shuckle@Leftovers
Sturdy
Quirky (nuetral)
EV: 4Hp 252Def 252SDef
Gastro Acid
Rest
Bide
Gyro Ball

I mainly use this shuckle with my slaking (as i gastro acid him) but i want to know opinions on him, because i was thinking of teaching him toxic to go with the breloom strategy i posted earlier

BlingCrosby
4th August 2010, 3:02 PM
A Shuckle without max HP EVs is a crime against humanity.

Eaglehawk
4th August 2010, 10:31 PM
A Shuckle without max HP EVs is a crime against humanity.
Agreed.


Shuckle@Leftovers
Sturdy
Quirky (nuetral)
EV: 4Hp 252Def 252SDef
Gastro Acid
Rest
Bide
Gyro Ball

I mainly use this shuckle with my slaking (as i gastro acid him) but i want to know opinions on him, because i was thinking of teaching him toxic to go with the breloom strategy i posted earlier
Toxic>Bide
Protect>Gyro Ball

Besides being Slaking's Anti-Ability, by switching those two moves increases Shuckle's ability to support Slaking (as well as annoying the heck out of the opponent). Toxic Protect allows Toxic to whittle their HP away while protecting yourself every other turn. This lowering of HP better ensures KOs dealt by its massive attack. Substitute is another option if you don't like Protect. With Shuckle's good defenses, it can stay protected longer and let the opponent's pokemon slowly die. You can also Rest your HP back up. I'm not too sure if the Sleep status is negated or not, but regardless, it plays as an amazing support for Slaking in Doubles.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't notice before. Use a beneficial nature over neutral nature. While neutrality brings no changes, beneficial natures brings a higher chance to succeed. I suggest Impish for a boost in Defense in exchange for a lower Special Attak. Seeing that your version or my suggestions does not utilize the Special Attack stat, so that's the safest thing to go with, or you can run Careful which is a boost in Special Defense in exchange for a lower Special Attack.

dragontamer98
6th August 2010, 8:54 PM
So I got my hands on a Lonely Torchic, and this is what I have in mind.

Blaziken@Life Orb
Nature: Lonely
Evs:252 Attack/ 196 Sp.Att/ 64 Speed
-Overheat
-Brick Break
-Thunderpunch
-Agility
Basically, I took Smogon's set and reversed it by using Overheat instead of Superpower, Brick Break for a STAB physical move, and Thunderpunch for coverage. Agility for opening up sweeping capabilities.

Nayzira
6th August 2010, 9:57 PM
Espeon @ Mind Plate
Ability: Synchronise
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Nature: Lonely

Move-set:
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Baton Pass
Calm Mind

IV's:
HP: 21
Attack: 28
Defense: 27
Sp. Attack: 26
Sp. Defense: 5
Speed: 17

First of all, I know it has the wrong nature, I figured if it isn't hindering its good enough for me. I spent 3 hours getting a female eevee with decent IV's for breeding,
and with its decent sp attack IV I figured I'd make it my main in-game espeon. Since I already spent more then average time on it I figured I might as well EV train it.
Now recently I gained an interest in metagame battling which I haven't done yet, but my question is, would this espeon be good enough to be a late game sweeper?
A sort of finisher / revenge sweeper? If so, should I change the item or move-set?

palingensia
7th August 2010, 4:28 AM
Might want Substitute > Baton Pass and Leftovers as your item. Something like Hidden Power Ground (if you have it) may be better over Shadow Ball, but it's tier dependent.

jesusfreak94
7th August 2010, 4:18 PM
So I got my hands on a Lonely Torchic, and this is what I have in mind.

Blaziken@Life Orb
Nature: Lonely
Evs:252 Attack/ 196 Sp.Att/ 64 Speed
-Overheat
-Brick Break
-Thunderpunch
-Agility
Basically, I took Smogon's set and reversed it by using Overheat instead of Superpower, Brick Break for a STAB physical move, and Thunderpunch for coverage. Agility for opening up sweeping capabilities.

If you're using a Lonely Torchic, then this seems like a pretty good concept for the set. Still, you might want to go with either Superpower or Sky Uppercut over Brick Break. That extra power does make a difference.

Mye
7th August 2010, 9:19 PM
I've been experimenting w/ anti-leads, and thought I'd throw this one out there:

Infernape@Life orb/Focus sash*
Naughty*/Adamant/Blaze
252atk/252speed/4HP
-Fake out
-Uturn
-Close combat
-Flare blitz/flamethrower*

Fake out busts sashes, and w/ excellent predictability can kill off weakened pkmn as a revenge kill. U-turn compliments the sash-busting, scoring a KO on azelf and allowing ape to scout. Close combat has a double effect. As well as hurting the ever-popular lead-aero, it can also be used if you decide to use ape as a sweeper later on. The last 2 moves are based on preference/change the set a bit. With flare blitz, ape becomes a physical lead and the recoil makes the sash useless. With flamethrower, ape can use the sash, and allows'm to get a surprise kill on defensive walls such as weezing. Both of the fire moves also work w/ the anti-lead, killing sleep-rade w/ relative ease.

Bagel
8th August 2010, 12:24 AM
No relevance in competitive battling whatsoever. Frenzy Plant (and other Hyper Beam type moves) are completely useless. And you don't have the correct EVs, clearly, just the stats (and even those seem completely off...especially since you only posted HP, Attack, and Defense). Bullet Seed sucks and is outclassed by pretty much any other move, and Leftovers are superior to Shell Bell. Overall? The standard sets are far better. All of them.
Thanks, but I'll stick with the Bullet Seed. And I'm barely able to understand EVs; I'm new to them.

Bagel
8th August 2010, 1:10 AM
Machamp@PoisonBarb
Guts
Hardy
HP186 A197 D127 SA99 SD117 S96
Poison Jab
Return
Earthquake
DynamicPunch

I need to know if he is good enough to battle competitively.

Simse
8th August 2010, 1:41 AM
Machamp@PoisonBarb
Guts
Hardy
HP186 A197 D127 SA99 SD117 S96
Poison Jab
Return
Earthquake
DynamicPunch

I need to know if he is good enough to battle competitively.

Not really.

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP | 248 Attack | 8 Speed
Moveset:
Dynamic Punch
Stone Edge
Payback
Substitute

This is my personal favourite Machamp. Annoys the hell out of teams. Sub up on Pokemon like Tyranitar and Blissey, the proceed to destory all in your way. 8 Speed lets you outrun Blissey. Which can be helpful if Blissey is stupid enough to stay in and Toxic you, only to be lol'd at by Dynamic Punch or Substitute.

Puppet_Master_Charizard
9th August 2010, 10:14 PM
Pinsir
Hyper Cutter
Jolly Nature (+Spe - SpAtk)
Super Power
Swords Dance
Brick Break
Toxic

I honestly am still thinking of a item to have pinsir hold but I don't really know what to pick right now.

I picked it to know toxic so that I could poison my opponents, to help weaken them. Swords Dance so that it could bring its atk stat up when there is a switch out. Brick Break to hit pokes when they try to use detect. Super Power, because swords dance plus super power and that is pretty strong. And it can really inflict some damage

spareux
9th August 2010, 10:19 PM
not sure exactly why one would be using Swords Dance Pinsir but
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Close Combat / Quick Attack

quick attack lol

but as far as i can recall heracross gets SD and does it better so yeah, use it in lower tiers or to be "cool"

BaldWombat
10th August 2010, 12:13 AM
I would take Mold Breaker over Hyper Cutter on a SD Pinsir so I can hit levitaters with Earthquake but that is me.

The Tyranitar
12th August 2010, 10:42 PM
Metagross@Occa Berry
;376;
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Explosion
Nature:Adamant
240hp,236atk,32spd

windsong
12th August 2010, 11:09 PM
Metagross@Occa Berry
;376;
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Explosion
Nature:Adamant
240hp,236atk,32spd

Please explain to me how anything makes this different from standard Occa Metagross. Sure, you have slightly different EVs, but they don't do anything significant that the standard EVs for Occa Lead Metagross don't do other then outspeed opposing lead Meta.

In addition, 4 Attacks Lum, 4 Attacks Occa, and 3 Attacks Lum Metagross are all better then 3 Attacks Occa in terms of how well they compare against other leads.

Fried Rhys
13th August 2010, 2:47 AM
The only reason to run Occa anyway is to beat Infernape which you can't do anyway since you don't have Earthquake.

LKH9
13th August 2010, 5:27 PM
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/334.png

Parafusion Altaria @Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)

EVs: 252 HP/ (need opinions)

Moves:-
-Agility
-Dragon Breath
-Swagger
-Roost

I've done tonnes of research on Altaria and learned that it's not designed for offensive play, because of it's low attacks, it's inferior compared to Dragonite and Garchomp. So I'm thinking about parafusion set in order to take advantage of Altaria's defensive capabilities, which is what makes it different from other OU dragons. Dragon Breath gives 30% paralysis, Swagger to confuse, Agility to Sharply raise speed, and Roost for recovery.

Is this set even possible??

Darkfall
13th August 2010, 7:51 PM
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/334.png

Parafusion Altaria @Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk)

EVs: 252 HP/ (need opinions)

Moves:-
-Agility
-Dragon Breath
-Swagger
-Roost

I've done tonnes of research on Altaria and learned that it's not designed for offensive play, because of it's low attacks, it's inferior compared to Dragonite and Garchomp. So I'm thinking about parafusion set in order to take advantage of Altaria's defensive capabilities, which is what makes it different from other OU dragons. Dragon Breath gives 30% paralysis, Swagger to confuse, Agility to Sharply raise speed, and Roost for recovery.

Is this set even possible??

Relying on a 30% Par rate isn't very reliable, so you my want to pair it up with a Thunder Wave abuser and give it something stronger, like Dragon Pulse or Fire Blast.

I also have to question Agility here. Aside from a faster Dragonbreath, it's doing nothing for you. And even then it's pointless. Dragonbreath isn't the strongest move, and using a turn to abuse it further when your opponent will probably switch isn't a good move.

Something along the lines of:

Swagger
Roost
Substitute
Offensive move (Fire Blast, Draco Meteor and Earthquake are the best three off the top of my head.)

would suffice more from Parafusion as that way you can set-up a sub, hope they don't break it and then attack at will. If they're para/fused their chances of attacking are that much slimmer.

However to be honest it's not a great set. It relies too much on luck, all in aid of not really doing anything. You can't effectively stall things with it, and it just seems like a way of helping switch a frail sweeper in, meaning you really should pack Heal Bell.

Now for a little something of my own:

Gallade @ Iron Ball
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spe

Trick
Skill Swap
Close Combat/Focus Punch
Psycho Cut

A little something I just thought up designed to be a bit gimmicky and fun but still hold some viability.
The idea is that you'll trick your Iron Ball onto something, thus crippling it forever (unless it also has Trick). At that point your opponent is likely to switch, meaning you can risk a Focus Punch or play it safe with one of the other attacks.
Skill Swap comes in when you want to have a bit of fun. A lot of Pokemon rely on their abilities, so robbing them of those can rob them of their strategy, the key is in knowing which Pokemon to use it on. Abilities like Volt Absorb, Intimidate, Levitate etc are very useful ones, and so by taking them for yourself, you create new opportunities for yourself every time. On top of that, Steadfast is a fairly dull ability that sees little use anyway, but to be safe don't bring a Flinchhaxer with you.

CC/FP is an obvious addition of powerful STAB, however each move has it's drawbacks. CC is preferred as FP requires more prediction, but for those confident that they'll be causing switches passing Choice Items and abilities around, it could see some usage.

Psycho Cut is listed as the final move mostly for it's STAB and effect. It deals reliable no-strings damage and can hit a lot of Pokemon hard.

Although I left them out for the sake of readability, there are many other moves you could consider, such as Ice/Thunderpunch, Night Slash, Stone Edge and even Thunder Wave and Knock Off, depending on what you want to do. A Trick/Skill Swap/T Wave/Knock Off set might be fun for annoying people, but wouldn't get much done aside from that. Whereas an all out offensive Gallade deserves a choice item and a different strategy.

If you're after something probably more reliable, then a standard Gallade set will do, however the unpredictability of this set is it's key; shift the game around to offbalance your opponents, and then begin the assault with Gallade's generous attack stat.

However, when using this set it's a good idea to bare Gallade's HP and Def in mind. Below average, it means Gallade won't be able to unbalance things as much as it likes without a fair deal of switching and predictability.

LKH9
14th August 2010, 2:33 AM
Because when I fought Lance's Altaria and Whitney's Miltank, the Dragon Breath and Body Slam are very annoying, the paralysis happens quite often. I'll just replace Agility with Substitute. Thanks for rating, I like to use cute Pokemons. :)

Darkfall
14th August 2010, 3:48 PM
Because when I fought Lance's Altaria and Whitney's Miltank, the Dragon Breath and Body Slam are very annoying, the paralysis happens quite often. I'll just replace Agility with Substitute. Thanks for rating, I like to use cute Pokemons. :)

See the thing there is that that's In-Game. In Competitive, things hit MUCH harder, so banking on a 30% Paralysis rate is really pushing you luck. But good luck anyway, if it works, then great, I just personally don't think it's worth sacrificing a potential KO for.

Lorica
15th August 2010, 11:58 PM
who is the strongest pokemon?????

jesusfreak94
16th August 2010, 12:15 AM
who is the strongest pokemon?????

Based on what? There's really no one strongest Pokemon. Even Arceus, the Pokemon with the best all around stats, can be beaten by many other Pokemon.

Fried Rhys
16th August 2010, 12:16 AM
lol absol is obviously, lorica

Lorica
16th August 2010, 12:29 AM
@Fried Rhys: Thank you
@jesusfreak94: Thanks you

Darkfall
16th August 2010, 12:42 AM
Gengar @ Toxic Orb (Levitate)
Timid
4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe

Trick
Will-o-Wisp
HP Fighting
Shadow Ball

Pretty simple idea based on my Gallade set, Trick the Toxic Orb onto something that dislikes poison and then go nuts with Shadow Ball/HP Fighting.
WoW felt like a useful addition, but I suppose you could go for more coverage if you preferred.

EV's are pretty much there for the sake of being there. I'm not great with EVs so, I slapped those on. Suggestions there would be tops.

Thoughts?

4kjayhawks
16th August 2010, 1:39 AM
First, why waste an item on Toxic Orb when Toxic exists? Also despite its low accuracy Gengar needs Focus Blast. The set wouldn't really work since Gengar isn't bulky enough to pull it off, and Rotom-A does the same thing but better :/ I reccomend just using the sweeper set

palingensia
16th August 2010, 8:48 AM
SubSplit beats most things that usually beat Gengar anyway, so really you're only beating bulky Waters with Toxic Orb. I guess if your team is weak to bulky Waters, but otherwise... eh.

Darkfall
16th August 2010, 11:20 AM
First, why waste an item on Toxic Orb when Toxic exists? Also despite its low accuracy Gengar needs Focus Blast. The set wouldn't really work since Gengar isn't bulky enough to pull it off, and Rotom-A does the same thing but better :/ I reccomend just using the sweeper set

Because in giving something the Toxic Orb, I also take their item, which I can then abuse, or give to something else, thus ruining more strategies.
That's why. The main aim isn't to poison something, it's to pour salt on the wound.


SubSplit beats most things that usually beat Gengar anyway, so really you're only beating bulky Waters with Toxic Orb. I guess if your team is weak to bulky Waters, but otherwise... eh.

It doesn't have to be used primarily on Gengar's counters, that was an example of the easiest time to use it. It's useful for crippling opponents who rely on their items (choice users for example) with the Poison being, again, salt on the wound.

Granted it's a little more situational, but it's not designed to become the standard Gengar ;)

Puzzler2
16th August 2010, 7:52 PM
I've been looking at this Kabutops for a while now and I need to know If it's good enough for competitive play...

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Swift Swim
EV's 252 Attack 252 Speed 4 Defense

-X-Scissor
-Stone Edge
-Waterfall
-Swords Dance

Swords Dance + Life Orb gives it great attack. X-Scissor takes care of grass types. It works best if Rain Dance is active.

I also have been testing out a Gengar and I need to know if it's any good.

Gengar @ Undecided
Modest Nature
Levitate
EV's 252 Sp.Atk 252 Speed

-Energy Ball
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb

Energy ball for type coverage. Focus Blast is needed for Normal and Dark types. Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are just there for STAB.

windsong
16th August 2010, 8:26 PM
I've been looking at this Kabutops for a while now and I need to know If it's good enough for competitive play...

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Swift Swim
EV's 252 Attack 252 Speed 4 Defense

-X-Scissor
-Stone Edge
-Waterfall
-Swords Dance

X-Scissor gives rather redundant type coverage with Stone Edge and Waterfall (it hits grass types, but that's really it) and Aqua Jet is a far better option, allowing you to sweep despite Kabutop's really poor speed stat.


Gengar @ Undecided
Modest Nature
Levitate
EV's 252 Sp.Atk 252 Speed

-Energy Ball
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb

Energy Ball and Sludge Bomb are both very poor move options for Gengar in the current metagame. The best available set is the SubSplit one, which uses Shadow Ball / Substitute / Focus Blast / Pain Split, letting you get past Blissey, one of the most common Gengar counters.

Black Murder Heavangelon
23rd August 2010, 1:16 AM
You guys have got to check this Dusknoir out.

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Relaxed - Pressure
252 HP/100 Def/158 Sp.Def
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Night Shade
-Spite

EVs and Nature subjected to change based on proper analysis.

This thing is a monster. With Pressure and Spite working together, you zap 6 PP from your opponent every turn. Stuff like Shadow ball will be eaten up in 4 turns. Also, Because this thing is so hard to take down, the opponent will try to use their strongest attack, which usually have low PP. Night Shade is the only attacking move as there are no Atk EVs invested.

This set has some problems, though. Firstly, it obviously has trouble dealing with Normal types. Secondly, it can't do anything against boosting sweepers. If they get off a few boosts, Dusknoir won't be able to wall them. I lost some matches this way.

Well, there ya go guys. I'm confident this is a Dusknoir you'll like.

poke-lord
23rd August 2010, 7:00 PM
Altaria @ Yache Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 200attk/200spd/56hp/56def
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Roost
Earthquake

I've yet to test this competetively but I have a feeling it could be a monster

Simse
23rd August 2010, 7:14 PM
Altaria @ Yache Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 200attk/200spd/56hp/56def
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Roost
Earthquake

I've yet to test this competetively but I have a feeling it could be a monster

The EV's are just random.
Yache Berry is useless, use Leftovers.
You may as well you Smogon's DD Altaria...

poke-lord
23rd August 2010, 8:12 PM
The EV's are just random.
Yache Berry is useless, use Leftovers.
You may as well you Smogon's DD Altaria...

WHy is the Yache Berry useless, and I thought the EV's would give it more of a chance in battles

4kjayhawks
23rd August 2010, 9:24 PM
WHy is the Yache Berry useless, and I thought the EV's would give it more of a chance in battles
By random, Simse means (I think) that they're not doing anything specific. Just switch it to 252 Att/252 Spd/Adamant for an offensive version, and 252 HP/ 16 Att/ 176 Sp def/ 64 spd/ Careful Nature. I don't think Yache is useless, but lefties are a completely better option. Also, this is basically just the Smogon set with different Evs, so I can't really rate the moves

poke-lord
23rd August 2010, 10:00 PM
By random, Simse means (I think) that they're not doing anything specific. Just switch it to 252 Att/252 Spd/Adamant for an offensive version, and 252 HP/ 16 Att/ 176 Sp def/ 64 spd/ Careful Nature. I don't think Yache is useless, but lefties are a completely better option. Also, this is basically just the Smogon set with different Evs, so I can't really rate the moves

I figured the EV's would make it (slightly) bulkier

jesusfreak94
24th August 2010, 12:00 AM
I figured the EV's would make it (slightly) bulkier

If you want good bulk, then it'd be best to max out HP first. Then deal with defenses after. Simse's right, the Smogon DD set would most likely work better. If you really want bulk, Altaria has some other bulky options too, besides DD.

fschulze47
24th August 2010, 1:53 AM
This thread doesn't get enough love IMO, here's a Sandslash I've been working on for the OU metagame.
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/28.png
Sandslash@ Leftovers
Sand Veil
Careful Nature
244 Hp/ 40 Atk/ 216 Sp. Def/ 8 Spe
~Rapid Spin
~Toxic
~Night Slash
~Earthquake

Alright, so the premise of this set is to create a Rapid Spinner who can more successfully handle the OU spinblockers more effectively, namely Rotom-A and Gengar. I've been trying to create more advanced EV spreads, and I think I got this one down quite good, I'm hoping I didn't overdo anything. Rapid Spin is a given move on this set, as it clears entry hazards, which is invaluable in OU. Night slash can 2HKO Gengar, which cannot 2HKO me with Shadow Ball. Rotom doesn't like it, but I believe its a 5HKO on average, which is why Toxic is on the set, as Rotom does not like Poison damage. Earthquake is for STAB, and can actually do decent damage with Sandslash's not-too-shabby attack stat. The EVs allow for optimal leftovers recovery, a jump point in special defense, the rest were dumped into attack, except for the 8 Speed, which allows me to outspeed 4 Speed Vappy and get the Toxic on it, which the standard set hates. Also, Sandslash isn't at as much of a risk of Rotom's WoW because of Sand Veil and its already subpar accuracy.


But fsch, why are you using Sandslash when you could be using....

Starmie
Starmie doesnt want to be taking Tbolts, Twaves, and Shadow Balls from the aforementioned Spinblockers, and if you really needed a Rapid Spinner, the most efficient route for you to take with Starmie would be the bulky set, but in reality it fails to even touch Gengar, standard 252/ 252 Sp. Atk/ Speed is 2HKOd by surf/ Hydro Pump, but its shadow ball is always an OHKO. Rotom can be EVd to take special hits from the bulkier set and KO with Tbolt, and you can assume that a Spinblocker Rotom would be EVd to take spinners.

Donphan
Same type, bulkier..? Can't touch Rotom. It can handle Gengar, but its attacks fail to do much to Rotom. Sandslash also has something of a surprise factor.

Forretress.
Pretty easy explanation. Hp Fire/ Overheat wreck it. Extremely predictable as well.

Tentacruel
Again, he hates Tbolt, Rotom can really mess with it,

So, I've explained the advantages of using Sandslash as an OU spinner, it may not be able to do as many jobs as the other spinners mentioned, but it can do its job very efficiently.

jesusfreak94
24th August 2010, 2:34 AM
Actually, Donphan can get Rotom-A. Here's what can happen. Stealth Rocks is up on both sides, maybe something else. Trainer A sends in Donphan to Rapid Spin. Trainer B switches to Rotom-A to block the Rapid Spin. Trainer A predicts the switch and uses Assurance. With Stealth Rock added in, 0HP/0Def Rotom-A takes 72.83-83.62 damage from Assurance. Next is Ice Shard, a close but definite KO.

Other than that, the set looks interesting, but it's just too outclassed in other aspects. Also, if you waste turns to kill the spin blocker then something else can just come out and revenge kill Sandslash before it has the chance to spin again.

fschulze47
24th August 2010, 2:46 AM
Actually, Donphan can get Rotom-A. Here's what can happen. Stealth Rocks is up on both sides, maybe something else. Trainer A sends in Donphan to Rapid Spin. Trainer B switches to Rotom-A to block the Rapid Spin. Trainer A predicts the switch and uses Assurance. With Stealth Rock added in, 0HP/0Def Rotom-A takes 72.83-83.62 damage from Assurance. Next is Ice Shard, a close but definite KO.
True, weird scenario, but true.


it's just too outclassed in other aspects.
Also true. However I think this could potentially be really good in the lower tiers, and possibly even in OU if one desperately needs Spinning


Also, if you waste turns to kill the spin blocker then something else can just come out and revenge kill Sandslash before it has the chance to spin again.
Meh, not really that true considering he cant be trapped by anything but Dugtrio, which isn't too common, he isnt weak to Pursuit either, another advantage over Starmie.

4kjayhawks
24th August 2010, 2:49 AM
This thread doesn't get enough love IMO, here's a Sandslash I've been working on for the OU metagame.
http://www.smogon.com/download/sprites/dp/28.png
Sandslash@ Leftovers
Sand Veil
Careful Nature
244 Hp/ 40 Atk/ 216 Sp. Def/ 8 Spe
~Rapid Spin
~Toxic
~Night Slash
~Earthquake

Alright, so the premise of this set is to create a Rapid Spinner who can more successfully handle the OU spinblockers more effectively, namely Rotom-A and Gengar. I've been trying to create more advanced EV spreads, and I think I got this one down quite good, I'm hoping I didn't overdo anything. Rapid Spin is a given move on this set, as it clears entry hazards, which is invaluable in OU. Night slash can 2HKO Gengar, which cannot 2HKO me with Shadow Ball. Rotom doesn't like it, but I believe its a 5HKO on average, which is why Toxic is on the set, as Rotom does not like Poison damage. Earthquake is for STAB, and can actually do decent damage with Sandslash's not-too-shabby attack stat. The EVs allow for optimal leftovers recovery, a jump point in special defense, the rest were dumped into attack, except for the 8 Speed, which allows me to outspeed 4 Speed Vappy and get the Toxic on it, which the standard set hates. Also, Sandslash isn't at as much of a risk of Rotom's WoW because of Sand Veil and its already subpar accuracy.


But fsch, why are you using Sandslash when you could be using....

Starmie
Starmie doesnt want to be taking Tbolts, Twaves, and Shadow Balls from the aforementioned Spinblockers, and if you really needed a Rapid Spinner, the most efficient route for you to take with Starmie would be the bulky set, but in reality it fails to even touch Gengar, standard 252/ 252 Sp. Atk/ Speed is 2HKOd by surf/ Hydro Pump, but its shadow ball is always an OHKO. Rotom can be EVd to take special hits from the bulkier set and KO with Tbolt, and you can assume that a Spinblocker Rotom would be EVd to take spinners.

Donphan
Same type, bulkier..? Can't touch Rotom. It can handle Gengar, but its attacks fail to do much to Rotom. Sandslash also has something of a surprise factor.

Forretress.
Pretty easy explanation. Hp Fire/ Overheat wreck it. Extremely predictable as well.

Tentacruel
Again, he hates Tbolt, Rotom can really mess with it,

So, I've explained the advantages of using Sandslash as an OU spinner, it may not be able to do as many jobs as the other spinners mentioned, but it can do its job very efficiently.

I think Donphan really outclasses this set. It has more bulk, Assurance for Rotom, (though either will be doing nothing to it if it has Will-O-Wisp or Pain SPlit) that will be doing more if it attacks you. The only thing it has ove Donphan is the surprise factor, and a difference of 15 Base Speed, which doesn't particularly matter as a defensive spinner. I just don't know if that's enough to use it over Donphan.
It's still a great, thought-out set, so props to you :)

fschulze47
24th August 2010, 3:44 AM
Thanks for the rates guys. It seems that it is a general opinion that my set is outclassed, and I more or less agree. My only question is any advice on the EVs? That was my main point of making this set, to get practice with custom sets, namely EVs.

poke-lord
24th August 2010, 11:55 AM
If you want good bulk, then it'd be best to max out HP first. Then deal with defenses after. Simse's right, the Smogon DD set would most likely work better. If you really want bulk, Altaria has some other bulky options too, besides DD.

I just want something with bulk and ppower

also what other options

jesusfreak94
25th August 2010, 12:42 PM
I just want something with bulk and ppower

also what other options

Altaria can support it's team with a set like this.

Altaria@Leftovers
Careful
Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP, 40 Def, 216 SpD
Moves:
-Dragon Claw
-Heal Bell
-Roost
-Perish Song/Haze/Roar

Much bulkier, but it doesn't do all that much damage.

Eaglehawk
26th August 2010, 5:14 AM
Altaria @ Yache Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 200attk/200spd/56hp/56def
Nature: Adamant
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Roost
Earthquake

I've yet to test this competetively but I have a feeling it could be a monster
You could also run Roar to phase ous potential stauts inducers and faster phazers, though the chances of that happening is not high. Plus, if you're running Roost, you might as well also uses Life Orb is the same fashion as a Milotic LO tank



Altaria can support it's team with a set like this.
Altaria@Leftovers
Careful
Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP, 40 Def, 216 SpD
Moves:
-Dragon Claw
-Heal Bell
-Roost
-Perish Song/Haze/Roar

Much bulkier, but it doesn't do all that much damage.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/altaria

palingensia
26th August 2010, 7:12 AM
I just want something with bulk and ppower

also what other options
Altaria @Leftovers
Natural Cure | Careful | 252 HP/220 Atk/36 Spe
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage

That fits the bill perfectly.

YOOMTAH
26th August 2010, 10:12 AM
Gallade is awesome.
This is my new lead and it's working perfectly:

Gallade @ Choice Scarf
Steadfast, 180 Spe / 252 Atk / 76 Def, Jolly
Close Combat | Shadow Sneak | Swords Dance | Trick

This is really great. It can trick the bulky leads, set up on them and sweep at least 2 Pokémon away when played good. It can take on anti-leads too, by abusing it's Scarf itself and using CC/SS. 180 Spe lets it outspeed Azelf/Aerodactyl, Atk is maxed and the leftovers dumped in Defence.

palingensia
26th August 2010, 10:27 AM
May I ask what the point of Swords Dance is when you have stuff like Ice Punch, Stone Edge and Psycho Cut which means you can actually beat other leads? Ice Punch owns Gliscor, and Psycho Cut owns Machamp, so I suggest you consider one or the other.

The other problem with this lead is it doesn't set up nor prevent Stealth Rock, unless you were to use Taunt (which is a bad idea on a scarfer).

James Bondage
26th August 2010, 2:29 PM
Here's one that has just been working STUPIDLY well for me, however, this would just be for a one move update to an analysis that already exists. Please note that I am NOT saying my variant is better, but I AM saying that my variant is competitivly viable for todays metagame.


Trick + Iron Ball (Update)
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/376.png
Item: Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamat
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Speed
Moveset:
-Trick
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion/Stealth Rock/Body Slam

The idea here is to add some utility to this set. As oppossed to having a one time use (usually) moveslot using either Explosion or Stealth Rock, how about if after that Tricked Iron Ball (since with my expierence, the opponent will more times than not switch out), you try and cripple yet another Pokemon via the 30% paralysis rate from Body Slam (suppossing a Ghost tyoe wasn't switched in). Even if a ghost type does make the switch in, you didn't just Exlopde like the old set warns you about. If you can also supply Wish support (most likely from Vaporeon or Umbreon), this variant can come back in for some more fun later instead of having wasted itself (via Explosion). Wash, rinse, repeat with the hard hitting (potential) paralysis support.

At 30%, paralysis support via Body Slam is not always going to happen, but on a switch in (only taking into consideration the 48 OU legal Pokemon), you have MORE of a chance of hitting for any damage over Earthquake (There are 7 Ghost types which Body Slam won't hit, paired against 17 Flying/Levitate Pokemon that Earthquake won't hit, and 7 non-flying, non-Levitating Steel and/or Rock types that aren't very likely to switch in). With Explosion, you don't get a second chance (as stated in the above paragraph), and with Meteor Mash, Metagross' common counters (save for Swampert), will be more benificial being paralized, as oppossed to getting hit with Meteor Mash, since it's not too likely any Steel type not named Bronzong, and no Rock types will be switching into Metagross for any reason.

Squirtleismyhomeboy
26th August 2010, 3:00 PM
i like it, i might try it out

Black Murder Heavangelon
27th August 2010, 10:07 AM
You guys have got to check this Dusknoir out.

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Relaxed - Pressure
252 HP/100 Def/158 Sp.Def
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Night Shade
-Spite

EVs and Nature subjected to change based on proper analysis.

This thing is a monster. With Pressure and Spite working together, you zap 6 PP from your opponent every turn. Stuff like Shadow ball will be eaten up in 4 turns. Also, Because this thing is so hard to take down, the opponent will try to use their strongest attack, which usually have low PP. Night Shade is the only attacking move as there are no Atk EVs invested.

This set has some problems, though. Firstly, it obviously has trouble dealing with Normal types. Secondly, it can't do anything against boosting sweepers. If they get off a few boosts, Dusknoir won't be able to wall them. I lost some matches this way.

Well, there ya go guys. I'm confident this is a Dusknoir you'll like.

Reposting because No one commented.

Come on guys. This set works wonders!

James Bondage
27th August 2010, 2:07 PM
Reposting because No one commented.

Come on guys. This set works wonders!

It could be viable, but there are a few nit picks I have about it.

1) Siesmic Toss over Night Shade

Reason: Gengar and Mismadgius are going to eat you alive, since niether of them will need anywhere near 6 PP's worth of Shadow Ball to take you down, meaning you will need to switch out versus them. Since the only type Siesmic Toss only misses Ghost types, and you will need to make that switch out, Siesmic Toss can hit the normal types for you.

2) Blissey and Snorlax

Reason: Due to their high HP, and especially Blissey's high PP Stalling moves, you aren't going to get anything pst these two.

3) Any other Poke that can get 101 HP subs

Reason: Vaporeon beats you with Toxic/Wish stalling, Celebi beats you with it's Sub/Seed set, and Tyranitar beats you with it's TyraniBoah set. There are probably more, but those are the main three right at the top of my head. Even with the Rest/Talk combo, Celebi and T-tar will still beat you outright, and Vappy stalls you, just as much as you stall it. If you are having to hit with Night Shade (or my suggested Siesmic Toss) twice to break a sub, that means they hit you twice, as well, therefore you do more turns of Rest + Sleep Talk than you do actually trying to stall your opponent with Spite.

dragontamer98
27th August 2010, 10:03 PM
Pretty interesting set. I wonder if this could work:

Duskinior @ Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Ability:Pressure
EVs: 252 Defence/ 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Pain Split
-Taunt
-Seismic Toss/ Night Shade
-Spite
This could be a small variant of yours. Although Pain Split won't give you a reliable recovery move, you make room for an a way to shut down Subs. Taunt will also force the opponent to attack, making it easier to abuse your Pressure Spite strategy. Seismic Toss or Night Shade for the above reasons that jeyre mentioned.

4kjayhawks
27th August 2010, 10:14 PM
Pretty interesting set. I wonder if this could work:

Duskinior @ Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Ability:Pressure
EVs: 252 Defence/ 252 SpD/ 4 Spe
-Pain Split
-Taunt
-Seismic Toss/ Night Shade
-Spite
This could be a small variant of yours. Although Pain Split won't give you a reliable recovery move, you make room for an a way to shut down Subs. Taunt will also force the opponent to attack, making it easier to abuse your Pressure Spite strategy. Seismic Toss or Night Shade for the above reasons that jeyre mentioned.

Ok, here's some nitpicks I have. ALWAYS max HP instead of defenses, especially on something with this low HP. So, run these EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def. with an Impish Nature, since you aren't running any special moves. Also, Dusknoir is too slow to abuse Taunt, so I would just run something like WoW or Earthquake. The set could work, but it is just very very gimmicky

dragontamer98
27th August 2010, 11:14 PM
Ok, here's some nitpicks I have. ALWAYS max HP instead of defenses, especially on something with this low HP. So, run these EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def. with an Impish Nature, since you aren't running any special moves. Also, Dusknoir is too slow to abuse Taunt, so I would just run something like WoW or Earthquake. The set could work, but it is just very very gimmicky

Well the point in not maxing HP was so that Pain Split would be more effective. And maybe using this Duskinior on a Trick Room team might help it?

Black Murder Heavangelon
28th August 2010, 7:17 AM
It could be viable, but there are a few nit picks I have about it.

1) Siesmic Toss over Night Shade

Reason: Gengar and Mismadgius are going to eat you alive, since niether of them will need anywhere near 6 PP's worth of Shadow Ball to take you down, meaning you will need to switch out versus them. Since the only type Siesmic Toss only misses Ghost types, and you will need to make that switch out, Siesmic Toss can hit the normal types for you..

Yes, I have noticed that Gengar and Mismagius do give this Dusknoir problems. Most of the time, I have to switch out to a pokemon who can handle them.


2) Blissey and Snorlax

Reason: Due to their high HP, and especially Blissey's high PP Stalling moves, you aren't going to get anything pst these two..

I haven't fought enough Snorlax or Blissey to comment on this.


3) Any other Poke that can get 101 HP subs

Reason: Vaporeon beats you with Toxic/Wish stalling, Celebi beats you with it's Sub/Seed set, and Tyranitar beats you with it's TyraniBoah set. There are probably more, but those are the main three right at the top of my head. Even with the Rest/Talk combo, Celebi and T-tar will still beat you outright, and Vappy stalls you, just as much as you stall it. If you are having to hit with Night Shade (or my suggested Siesmic Toss) twice to break a sub, that means they hit you twice, as well, therefore you do more turns of Rest + Sleep Talk than you do actually trying to stall your opponent with Spite.

Vaporeon's Toxic doesn't work because of Rest and Dusknoir can PP stall with Spite, but I see what you mean. I haven't seen a lot of Vaporeons packing Substitute though. Celebi is a similar situation, as its Leech Seed can be problematic. But Dusknoir can take its hits easily and rest off damage lost from Leech Seed. Most Celebi's I see don't have Substitute as well.

Tyranitar, however, are definitely a problem. The best Dusknoir can do is switch out and let another pokemon handle it, as Dusknoir without Will o wisp can't beat TTar one on one.

Dusknoir's nature is Relaxed because the lower speed means it can use Spite after the opponent. Meaning that Dusknoir will almost always zap 6 PP from the opponent.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This is one of the few good sets I've thought of. Any thoughts on the EV spread though?

calze6
29th August 2010, 9:06 AM
Wouldn't a status move like will-o-wisp or toxic be more effective over night shade to cripple enemies why they try desperately to attack you?

randomspot555
29th August 2010, 9:41 AM
Wouldn't a status move like will-o-wisp or toxic be more effective over night shade to cripple enemies why they try desperately to attack you?

Seismic Toss/Night Shade are attacks, while the others are status effects. Yes, status is more likely to cripple enemies, with the benefit usually going to WOW since it cuts Attack in half. Toxic is better if you want the enemy to run out of HP quicker.

Blue Harvest
29th August 2010, 10:08 AM
Here's one that has just been working STUPIDLY well for me, however, this would just be for a one move update to an analysis that already exists. Please note that I am NOT saying my variant is better, but I AM saying that my variant is competitivly viable for todays metagame.


Trick + Iron Ball (Update)
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/376.png
Item: Iron Ball
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamat
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Speed
Moveset:
-Trick
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion/Stealth Rock/Body Slam

The idea here is to add some utility to this set. As oppossed to having a one time use (usually) moveslot using either Explosion or Stealth Rock, how about if after that Tricked Iron Ball (since with my expierence, the opponent will more times than not switch out), you try and cripple yet another Pokemon via the 30% paralysis rate from Body Slam (suppossing a Ghost tyoe wasn't switched in). Even if a ghost type does make the switch in, you didn't just Exlopde like the old set warns you about. If you can also supply Wish support (most likely from Vaporeon or Umbreon), this variant can come back in for some more fun later instead of having wasted itself (via Explosion). Wash, rinse, repeat with the hard hitting (potential) paralysis support.

At 30%, paralysis support via Body Slam is not always going to happen, but on a switch in (only taking into consideration the 48 OU legal Pokemon), you have MORE of a chance of hitting for any damage over Earthquake (There are 7 Ghost types which Body Slam won't hit, paired against 17 Flying/Levitate Pokemon that Earthquake won't hit, and 7 non-flying, non-Levitating Steel and/or Rock types that aren't very likely to switch in). With Explosion, you don't get a second chance (as stated in the above paragraph), and with Meteor Mash, Metagross' common counters (save for Swampert), will be more benificial being paralized, as oppossed to getting hit with Meteor Mash, since it's not too likely any Steel type not named Bronzong, and no Rock types will be switching into Metagross for any reason.

That doesn't make sense..

Earthquake + Meteor Mash hits literally everything harder than Body Slam.. Except Zapdos / Charizard / Gyarados. All three take more from Iron Balled Earthquake.

Also you would be running Body Slam over Explosion or Stealth Rock.. two of the best moves in the game. That makes even less sense.

James Bondage
29th August 2010, 2:59 PM
That doesn't make sense..

Earthquake + Meteor Mash hits literally everything harder than Body Slam.. Except Zapdos / Charizard / Gyarados. All three take more from Iron Balled Earthquake.

Also you would be running Body Slam over Explosion or Stealth Rock.. two of the best moves in the game. That makes even less sense.

The theory here is that wth Explosion, you blow up once, and your done. Alot of times, that's a good thing, depending on what you blow up on.

And with Stealth Rock, you set up the rocks, and if your opponent doesn't have a spinner, that moveslot is finished, as well. Also, not a big problem, since SR will always produce some sort of damage for you.

And with Earthquake (which would still stay in the moveset), you have less probability overall of hitting whatever switches into you (only thinking about the 48 OU Pokemon), since most of the hope targets of the Tricked Iron Ball (Skarmory, Bronzong, Rotom) will switch out after they get the Ball tricked to them.

With Body Slam, you don't have to risk a completely wasted move, if say, Dusknoir switches in on the Explosion, and then sits there afterwords laughing at you. And there are pleanty of other Pokemon out there that can set up rocks for you, leaving you a space for another move (Body Slam.

Let's use one of your examples. If after you Trick the Iron Ball to something (let's say Rotom), your opponent will be switching out. If they then switch in something like Zapdos, you hit it harder than any of the other moves in you set, and though a 30% ParaHax isn't something to put bank on, if you are luck enough to get it, it's likely that the rest of you team has been made a huge hole to be able to set up on a Poke that can't handle them, or you have made it very diffcult for your opponent to find viable switch in's to whatever you might have in store for them later.

I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.

hobby
29th August 2010, 3:19 PM
I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but the only reason those two lean back on Body Slam is because it is a STAB move for them, Metagross generally has something better to be doing with its time.

-Unicorno-
29th August 2010, 6:03 PM
Absol @ razor claw
ability:super luck
nature:jolly
-Swords dance
-double team
-sucker punch
-night slash

this absol is a sweeper so you wait till your opponent sends out like a psychic or ghost pokemon. use double team 2 or 3 times so you can use swords dance with getting hit probaly once. the use swords dance 3 times. then use night slash and you can wipe out any pokemon(i did it on a lv.100 lucario)and if its a critical hit it can do 400 or 500 damage. and can wipe out a whole team

Blue Harvest
29th August 2010, 6:58 PM
The theory here is that wth Explosion, you blow up once, and your done. Alot of times, that's a good thing, depending on what you blow up on.

And with Stealth Rock, you set up the rocks, and if your opponent doesn't have a spinner, that moveslot is finished, as well. Also, not a big problem, since SR will always produce some sort of damage for you.

Stealth Rocks will do 25-50% damage to all the targets of Body Slam. I would MUCH rather you paralyze my Zapdos or Gyarados than get rocks down or a KO by blowing up on them.


And with Earthquake (which would still stay in the moveset), you have less probability overall of hitting whatever switches into you (only thinking about the 48 OU Pokemon), since most of the hope targets of the Tricked Iron Ball (Skarmory, Bronzong, Rotom) will switch out after they get the Ball tricked to them.

And Body Slam is a wasted moveset against all of them.


With Body Slam, you don't have to risk a completely wasted move, if say, Dusknoir switches in on the Explosion, and then sits there afterwords laughing at you.

Wait so your first reaction to Tricking an Iron Ball on Skarmory / Rotom / Zapdos is to Explode on them?


And there are pleanty of other Pokemon out there that can set up rocks for you, leaving you a space for another move (Body Slam.

Iron Ball Metagross is very reliable at it. I would rather use Stealth Rock over Body Slam.


Let's use one of your examples. If after you Trick the Iron Ball to something (let's say Rotom), your opponent will be switching out. If they then switch in something like Zapdos, you hit it harder than any of the other moves in you set, and though a 30% ParaHax isn't something to put bank on, if you are luck enough to get it, it's likely that the rest of you team has been made a huge hole to be able to set up on a Poke that can't handle them, or you have made it very diffcult for your opponent to find viable switch in's to whatever you might have in store for them later.

Or with Explosion you can cripple one poke and blow up a second. The only thing good about Body Slam is catching Scarf Heatran or Magnezone with paralysis, but the few times they switch in at all you are running off 30% success rate. Just predict them and EQ.


I base my Body Slam theory on the same theory that Snorlax and Likilicky use it for. Unfortunately, you don't get STAB damage though.

Like Hobby said its because its their best option. No one uses Likilicky in any tier and Snorlax is defensive.


Absol @ razor claw
ability:super luck
nature:jolly
-Swords dance
-double team
-sucker punch
-night slash

this absol is a sweeper so you wait till your opponent sends out like a psychic or ghost pokemon. use double team 2 or 3 times so you can use swords dance with getting hit probaly once. the use swords dance 3 times. then use night slash and you can wipe out any pokemon(i did it on a lv.100 lucario)and if its a critical hit it can do 400 or 500 damage. and can wipe out a whole team

The problem comes when no one is dumb enough to leave a Psychic or Ghost type in on you so you can Swords Dance three times + Double Team 4+ times. They will probably just switch to Lucario /Machamp / Scizor / Steel and eliminate you immediately.

James Bondage
29th August 2010, 9:06 PM
Stealth Rocks will do 25-50% damage to all the targets of Body Slam. I would MUCH rather you paralyze my Zapdos or Gyarados than get rocks down or a KO by blowing up on them.



And Body Slam is a wasted moveset against all of them.



Wait so your first reaction to Tricking an Iron Ball on Skarmory / Rotom / Zapdos is to Explode on them?

No, if you Trick an Iron Ball onto those three, anyone with any intelligence isn't keeping them in. And save for Skarmory and some Swampert variants, you'll be getting at least 25% damage off of the Body Slam anyways.




Iron Ball Metagross is very reliable at it. I would rather use Stealth Rock over Body Slam.

Aside from the fact that Rotom, Zapdos, Bronzong, and Skarmory otherwise wall the crap out of Metagross.




Or with Explosion you can cripple one poke and blow up a second. The only thing good about Body Slam is catching Scarf Heatran or Magnezone with paralysis, but the few times they switch in at all you are running off 30% success rate. Just predict them and EQ.


Or, with proper Wish support (I suggest Vaporeon), you don't have to just blow up. Why go with ony KOing one Poke via an Explosion, when you can use that last moveslot for anything else. (I don't see running Explosion on any version of Metagross except AgiliGross and Dual Creen Metagross as a viable option)



Like Hobby said its because its their best option. No one uses Likilicky in any tier and Snorlax is defensive.


Snorlax is specially defensive, with the EV spread given, Metagross, with it's base 135 Def, is physically defensive.

I'm not saying Body Slam is a better option, I'm saying it;'s an equally viable option as both Stealth Rock and Explosion.

Blue Harvest
29th August 2010, 9:17 PM
No, if you Trick an Iron Ball onto those three, anyone with any intelligence isn't keeping them in. And save for Skarmory and some Swampert variants, you'll be getting at least 25% damage off of the Body Slam anyways.

Or 100% with Explosion. Or 22% with Meteor Mash. Or 12%-200% (accumulated) with Stealth Rocks.


Aside from the fact that Rotom, Zapdos, Bronzong, and Skarmory otherwise wall the crap out of Metagross.

With Explosion Metagross beats Skarmory by pounding on it with Meteor Mash. Specially Defensive Skarmory is KOed by Meteor Mash + Explosion after rocks 100% of the time. The other two do even worse. Rotom beats you regardless of your moves.


Or, with proper Wish support (I suggest Vaporeon), you don't have to just blow up. Why go with ony KOing one Poke via an Explosion, when you can use that last moveslot for anything else. (I don't see running Explosion on any version of Metagross except AgiliGross and Dual Creen Metagross as a viable option)

Lead Metagross can take out Swampert / Hippowdon before they lay rocks, or pick off some random threat late game like Leftovers Gyarados or Suicune. Oh, unless you would rather use Body Slam..



Snorlax is specially defensive, with the EV spread given, Metagross, with it's base 135 Def, is physically defensive.

No it isn't. Its tough, but not NEARLY as tough as Snorlax. Body Slam has garbage coverage anyway, even on Snorlax. The only reason Snorlax runs it is because its his strongest move.


I'm not saying Body Slam is a better option, I'm saying it;'s an equally viable option as both Stealth Rock and Explosion.

I respectfully disagree!

If you're looking for paralysis its pointless since you already have Trick / Iron Ball. If you want more damage just use Zen Headbutt.

Stickly
29th August 2010, 11:27 PM
this is one of the pokemon im workin on for my ultimate team

Pokemon/ Starmie
Ability/ Natural Cure
Item/ Mystic water
Nature/ Timd
Evs/ 172Hp, 216Spd, 120Sp.A
Moveset-
Recover
Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin

plz rate (:

HyperKeeby
30th August 2010, 11:13 AM
Just need help on one pokemon.

Electivire @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Hasty
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 76 Atk / 220 Spe / 212 SpAtk
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power Ice
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower

The pokemon itself is being placed in a mono electric team, (with a wildcard). It's to punish the common choice'd Heatran, Scizor, and possibly +1 DD Dragonite. It lacks STAB, although electric coverage is provided by the rest of my team easily. What I REALLY need help on is the EVs, I'm honestly not sure how to spread them, so I just took the usual spread.

Darkfall
30th August 2010, 5:03 PM
Absol @ razor claw
ability:super luck
nature:jolly
-Swords dance
-double team
-sucker punch
-night slash

this absol is a sweeper so you wait till your opponent sends out like a psychic or ghost pokemon. use double team 2 or 3 times so you can use swords dance with getting hit probaly once. the use swords dance 3 times. then use night slash and you can wipe out any pokemon(i did it on a lv.100 lucario)and if its a critical hit it can do 400 or 500 damage. and can wipe out a whole team

Depending on what rules you're playing, Double Team is banned, ruining everything about this set.
On top of that, Absol is too frail to rely solely on DT. Maybe opt for Substitute somewhere to give yourself a shield of sorts, or drop the DT idea altogether and go for a Choice Scarf or Life Orb Absol.


this is one of the pokemon im workin on for my ultimate team

Pokemon/ Starmie
Ability/ Natural Cure
Item/ Mystic water
Nature/ Timd
Evs/ 172Hp, 216Spd, 120Sp.A
Moveset-
Recover
Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin

plz rate (:

Here's all you'll get from me, and hopefully everyone else, until you add a description.

*** sucks. Go with:

*** and *** attacks
OR
*** and *** attacks

Drop *** for *** so you can beat ***, *** is only useful here for revenge killing ***.

Aside from the Speed, I don't get your EVs. Could you try explain them along with adding an actual description? Thanks.

Professional ninja
31st August 2010, 3:03 AM
;248;
Tyranitar@chesto berry
adamant/jolly
Dragon Dance
Rest
Crunch/earthquake
Brick Break/stone edge
252attack/252speed/4hp

can wtfpwn scizor if predicted hurts alot of the ou metagame with unresisted attacks not to sure on the evs can someone please rate maybe test?

jesusfreak94
1st September 2010, 1:11 AM
You said it could pwn Scizor? It'd need a Babiri Berry and Fire Punch to do that, and that set already exists. The set that you have looks interesting, but Tyranitar would kinda lose out on coverage with Rest, and extra damage with the Chesto Berry over Life Orb.

And now my question. I was thinking about ways to use different sets for Drifblim. How will these work?

Drifblim@Petaya Berry
Modest
Unburden
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 HP
Moves:
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt/HP Fighting
-Endure/Substitute
-Calm Mind

This set works similarly to the SubPetaya Empoleon strategy. Due to Drifblim's impressive collection of 3 immunities, it can switch in on several different attacks, and then proceed to Calm Mind on the opponent's switch. Then, like Empoleon, it can Substitute down to activate the Petaya Berry. The 4 HP EVs allow it to have an HP stat divisible by 4. Then Drifblim can sweep due to x2 Speed and x2 Special Attack. Shadow Ball is good STAB, and the secondary move is good for added coverage. I'm actually thinking that Endure would be better over Substitute, as without an immediate Speed boost (like Empoleon gets with Agility) Drifblim may have trouble getting effective use out of Substitute.

Here's the other set: a Baton Passer.

Drifblim@Pinch Berry
Timid
Unburden
EVs: 252 Spe, 248 Def, 4 HP, 4 SpA
Moves:
-Shadow Ball
-Calm Mind
-Endure/Substitute
-Baton Pass

Drifblim can BP a Calm Mind boost or two, and maybe even a Substitute in best case scenario. The strategy is to come in something that will be forced to switch out and Calm Mind. Then, either Sub or Endure to get whatever Berry to activate so that you can get that boost and the Unburden speed boost as well. I think I've heard from somewhere that you can't BP an Unburden boost, but it will still help Drifblim to outspeed its counters and BP safely. Shadow Ball is for whatever damage Drifblim may be able to use. The defensive EVs allow Drifblim to survive Tyranitar's Pursuit, which is essentially the most powerful Pursuit in the standard metagame. The offensive EVs allow Drifblim to be as fast as possible, and the 4 SpA EVs allow it to do a little more damage with Shadow Ball if the need arrises.

So do you think that these sets would be useful in OU? or at least UU?

fschulze47
1st September 2010, 2:53 AM
I love this thread...quite a bit actually. So my question is why are so many people abusing it or not reading the rules? Oh well onto my actual contribution.

I present....GyaraLure.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/95/Spr_4h_130_m.png
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
Intimidate
216 Hp/ 112 Atk/ 140 Sp. Def./ 40 Speed
~Substitute
~Toxic
~Waterfall
~Bounce/ Payback/ Roar

Gyarados is among my favorite Pokemon. It is a staple on nearly all of my teams, and I've come to know quite well how it works and how people answer to it. Gyarados is a great Pokemon for forcing switches because it is easy to counter, but if it goes uncountered and succeeds in DDing it can be a huge threat, putting teams in a world of hurt in the process. So, naturally people switch directly out as soon as they can and go to their little Gyarados check. What this set attempts to do is let those lures come out and Sub up on the switch, and proceed to mess with them and soften them, which brings me to my next point. Gyara's checks and counters normally counter more than one thing, in fact a vast variety. Namely Heatran, Infernape, Scizor, and Metagross, as they all have trouble with the bulky waters Gyarados lures out. It is best used Early- Game.

With an Adamant Nature, this Gyara 2HKOs the standard defensive Celebi with Bounce, forcing it to recover after it breaks my Sub, allowing me to possibly get up another one! It also has the potential to OHKO the Standard LOStarmie with Bounce after one switch-in to SR and one LO recoil. The HP Evs bring Gyara to 385 HP, maximizing leftovers and allowing me to switch in to SR five times. The speed EVs allow me to outspeed 4 Speed Suicune, and that is useful when Bouncing with a Sub, as it allows me to scout for what Kind of Suicune this is. It also outspeeds most Standard Vaporeon. The rest were dumped into Special Defense to help Gyara take those random HP electrics.

Substitute is a must- have on this set, as it allows Gyara to be such an effective lure and scout for its counters, and helps with foes that try to Paralyze it. For instance, if one's check to Gyara is a choice scarfed revenge killer, it allows me to see what move it locks itself into while Poisoning it, and then switch out to a solid counter. It blocks sleep as well, which is a huge plus for those trying to use Breloom as a check.

Waterfall is merely for STAB, and is Gyarados's best option against Steels, who otherwise wall this set.

Toxic helps with Vaporeon and Slowbro, both of which hate being poisoned. Offensive Suicune hates it too, but CroCune doesn't really mind. It does allow me to Scout it more efficiently though.

The fourth moveslot is a huge toss- up. Bounce helps with Gengar, Starmie, and Celebi, and provides an extra turn of leftovers recovery. It also has a Paralysis chance and serves as a secondary STAB, it is generally the best choice. Payback is Gyara's best option against Rotom, and OHKOs LO Starmie as well as Gengar, but doesn't have much purpose beyond that. Roar helps with Skarm and Forrey, although they aren't as threatening to this set as the aforementioned counters.

This set really like Taunt/ Rapid Spin support, as Stealth Rock is its bane. However, I find that in this day of anti- leads brought upon by the rise in Machamp, it is more difficult to get up SR in the early game phase.

Well, let me know what you think.

Professional ninja
1st September 2010, 4:12 AM
You said it could pwn Scizor? It'd need a Babiri Berry and Fire Punch to do that, and that set already exists. The set that you have looks interesting, but Tyranitar would kinda lose out on coverage with Rest, and extra damage with the Chesto Berry over Life Orb.

not had problems with scizor when they switch in on a brick break/earthquake

fschulze47
1st September 2010, 4:31 AM
not had problems with scizor when they switch in on a brick break/earthquake

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.
My friend, you have absolutely no control over that unless you know that your opponent has a Scizor, they have no other option to switch in, and they are predicting a resisted hit when switching in.

And when the standard CB Scizor DOES switch in on EQ, it takes 35.6%- 42% from that EQ. Not exactly a "pwn" if you ask me. Its not even a 2HKO! Now have fun eating a CB Bullet Punch. And that calc is assuming you have an Adamant Nature, which you didn't list, read the rules, bro.

Well I think we can safely say that set is outclassed by most other Ttars in existence.

Big Beluga
1st September 2010, 4:56 AM
You have caught my attention fschulze, that set doesnt look half bad. I'll have to do some testing.

Blue Harvest
1st September 2010, 7:53 AM
Tentacruel @ Life Orb
Timid
252 Speed / 252 Special Attack / 4 HP

Surf / Hydro Pump
Sludge Bomb
Rapid Spin / HP Electric
Toxic Spikes / Ice Beam

Tentacruel is a good Toxic Spiker and Rapid Spinner, but hes largely outclassed by Forretress and Starmie (stall that doubles up with Gyarados won't fear Heatran or Infernape) and Tentacruel is dead weight on anything other than very specialized stall.

So I figured hey I'll throw a Life Orb on it and let it kill stuff. Oddly enough it works. It retains enough bulk to take on somethings like Vaporeon and has enough offense to sweep weakened teams and get TONS of revenge kills. Things like Breloom, Mamoswine, Heatran, Celebi, Vaporeon, Shaymin, Forretress, Skarmory and Gliscor often stay in expecting an easy KO only to get eliminated in one shot. Bulky Zapdos and most Rotom are 2HKOed by Sludge Bomb + Surf.

Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes are the prefered options, but Ice Beam OHKOs 252 HP Dragonite and HP Electric OHKOs max HP Gyarados after Stealth Rocks. Hydro Pump is also usable for power where you have Sludge Bomb for reliablility. Missing sucks though.



Err, heres another one. Its not an original set, but one of the moves is unheard of.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Timid
252 Special Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP

Fire Blast
Earth Power
HP Grass
Ancientpower / Explosion

Ancientpower rounds off the coverage that Heatran always misses. Fire Blast / Earth Power have very few resists. HP Grass slaps around the bulky waters and crushes Swampert. But normally Heatran is forced to blow up on Gyarados or run a fairly weak Dragon Pulse to hurt Dragonite. Ancientpower lets Heatran 2HKO Gyarados and Dragonite (or OHKO after Fire Blast). Its not revolutionary, but it can pull some surprise kills off, particularly when they see you run HP Grass and try to set up on you. Ancientpower is a great finishing move since the occasional stat boost can win games.

Keep in mind this is 95% the same as standard LO Heatran, just slightly better coverage. Explosion is still a great move.

calze6
1st September 2010, 11:37 AM
HP electric can be used on tran though although you lose pert coverage. Interesting tenta set. Can't something like suicune or vaporeon do that job better though? Cune is bulkier and slightly more powerful only losing some speed while vappy has a nice special attack.

4kjayhawks
1st September 2010, 12:34 PM
HP electric can be used on tran though although you lose pert coverage. Interesting tenta set. Can't something like suicune or vaporeon do that job better though? Cune is bulkier and slightly more powerful only losing some speed while vappy has a nice special attack.

It's main niche is that it can spin, and it has dual STAB I guess ( even though Poison STAB is awful). I like the set, may have to try it out sometime.

This thread is getting much better.

Blue Harvest
1st September 2010, 3:52 PM
It's main niche is that it can spin, and it has dual STAB I guess ( even though Poison STAB is awful). I like the set, may have to try it out sometime.

This thread is getting much better.

Poison STAB isn't awful when paired with Water STAB. The coverage is better than Boltbeam.

fschulze47
1st September 2010, 3:54 PM
This thread is getting much better.

I agree. Any more feedback for GyaraLure?

windsong
1st September 2010, 4:27 PM
Okay, I tested that Gyarados lure set, and I must say, it's not half bad, but there are a couple annoyances.

First and foremost, it just doesn't hit hard enough. That's honestly the key point, and it makes me prefer CBGyara, as while you have to predict more carefully, the end payoff is worth far more. I get that the point of this Gyarados is different; to lure in and poison bulky waters, but I just feel that there are better Pokemon for that job, and when I tested this set, I found that I was primarily subbing up against Rotom-A switch ins or Celebi/Shaymin switch ins, not bulky waters.

The second annoying thing about this set is that it needs constant Wish / Rapid Spin support to be effective, seeing as you lose a ton of HP just by switching in. However, that's a small factor.

So yeah, seems like a solid set, I guess.

edit: and Blue Harvest, isn't that Blecko's set?

fschulze47
1st September 2010, 5:33 PM
I agree, I did the testing myself....ugh SD Infernape is such a hard core to use. I intended for GyaraLure to be a decent partner. Anyways, here's my next die roll.

Ghengis Kahnter

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/c8/Spr_4h_094.png
Gengar@ Focus Sash
Levitate
Hasty/ Timid Nature
252 Sp. Atk/ 6 Sp. Def/ 252 Speed
~Counter
~Destiny Bond/ Taunt
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast

Anti- leads are experiencing a huge rise. Machamp is up at number 2, Metagross has taken to going rockless to beat more leads, it is very difficult for one lead to set up rocks and hope to beat other leads as well, so even if you do set up rocks the momentum is still going for the guy with the anti- lead. It's annoying, but something that we have to cope with.

Gengar is a very unexpected lead. It used to be used fairly widespread, but Platinum came around and diminished its popularity and usability. The original set aimed to take control of the first turn by sleeping the opposing lead. This one aims to take out the lead and possibly the first switch-in, depending on how lucky I get with the first switch-in.

The EVs allow for the maximum speed and damage output as possible, with the extras in Special Defense to take such hits better. Hasty allows you to increase the damage you take from physical attacks, and thus increase the output.

Counter is the point behind the set. It allows me to beat Meta, Machamp, and other physically inclined leads. It is a 3rd gen tutor move, and surprsingly not mentioned on the Smogon analysis at all. Destiny Bond is great for when a slower foe without a priority attack comes in to finish the set off. Taunt is for slower leads to stop them from setting up, and can be used in place of Destiny Bond in the event that you find switch-ins possesing priority. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast provide perfect coverage in two moves.

Gengar Vs. Top Ten Leads

Azelf- Shadow Ball for the 2HKO. Immune to explosion, always wins if it tries to go for rocks

Machamp- This lead was built to take it on. It will not expect counter and it will Payback in my face, as it is immune to sleep for a turn and it can survive my Shadow Ball. This is where Hasty is advised, as Counter will not always OHKO with Timid.

Aerodactyl- Same deal as Azelf, Shadow Ball always 2HKOs.

Metagross- Normally just counter, as it knows it can survive a Shadow Ball/ "Hypnosis" and go for the kill.

Swampert- Eh, just Shadow Ball really, taunt if you have it, there's little I can do to this thing.

Jirachi- Eh, again Iron Head hurts, I don't mind Trick/Uturn though, and Shadow Ball 3HKOs...

Infernape- Easy. If they go for SR, they lose, if they FIreblast, they lose. Immunity to Fake Out and CC, win win win.

Roserade- Taunt will shut it down, but other than that, Shadow Ball, take the sleep, switch to a counter.

Heatran- Focus Blast has a chance to OHKO, immunity to explosion. Specs variants are annoying.

Ninjask- Taunt or Shadow Ball.

jesusfreak94
2nd September 2010, 3:40 AM
^I actually posted a very similar Gengar set like this on this thread. No one responded to it, though. This set can be very effective. I've used it in some occasions to kill 3 Pokemon in one battle. KO on lead with Counter, kill something else with SB/FB, and go out with Destiny Bond.

Also, anybody else wanna give me feedback on the Drifblims? If not, then I'll just let that die.

calze6
2nd September 2010, 11:58 AM
Consider explosion over destiny bond as a reliable alternative for gengar and also takes better advantage of the hasty nature. Also note that you can run 0 def IVs to take more damage too. Watch out though as a lot of leads SR first, not attack.

Hawkflight
3rd September 2010, 6:55 PM
Hi, I need advice on a revenge-killer Lucario to act as glue for my team. Here's what I have so far. The moves and held item are what I need advice on.

Lucario @ Muscle Band
Ability: Steadfast
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed
-Stone Edge

windsong
3rd September 2010, 7:12 PM
That's just standard SD Lucario with Muscle Band over Life Orb (and you should use LO, cause it nets some significant KO's, like +2 Close Combat on Hippowdon with a layer of Spikes).

The last moveslot is just a filler slot; Crunch, Ice Punch, and Stone Edge all work in it.

Hawkflight
3rd September 2010, 10:18 PM
I understand what it is, what I need to know is how I can change it to make it better.

4kjayhawks
3rd September 2010, 10:33 PM
I understand what it is, what I need to know is how I can change it to make it better.

He just told you. LO > Muscle Band, and keep all you except I recommend crunch in the last slot.

Hawkflight
4th September 2010, 1:47 AM
Oooohhh, I see. Thanks.

fschulze47
4th September 2010, 3:16 AM
As for the Drifblims, Jesusfreak, is that it is absolutely screwed over by any priority moves. While it is a good Strategy and an idea I hadn't thought of, Azumarill's Aqua jet and Hitmontop and Absol's Sucker Punches hurt, while Scizor, despite its demotion, is still running rampant with its obnoxiously strong priority moves. Whatever tier you plan to use that with, you'd have to scout for such attackers, possibly with a dedicated lure. But other than that and the flaws you mentioned, it's a pretty creative set, I like it.

jesusfreak94
5th September 2010, 10:27 PM
^Very true. When I first read this response, I started to try and come up with some lures that I could use. Then I just thought "Forget it, it's just a Drifblim." Oh, and remember that Sandslash Rapid Spinner you came up with? Well it gave me an idea. Meet the wierdest Rapid Spinner you may ever see.

Hitmonlee@Life Orb
Adamant
Limber
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
Moves:
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Sucker Punch
-Rapid Spin

Who's ever heard of a Hitmonlee in OU? Or better yet, one trying to Rapid Spin? This takes the element of surprise to the next level. Hitmonlee is a good attacker, due to its powerful Base 120 Atk stat. The best part about this set is that I bet most competitive trainers don't even seem to realize that Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan can even learn Rapid Spin. Hitmontop, yes, because it looks like a spinning top and even has "top" in its name. When people see Lee, then they will most likely switch to a physical wall or something that can simply counter it. More often than not, this is not going to be a Ghost type, so Hitmonlee is almost guarenteed to use Rapid Spin. Then he can do some damage with Close Combat and Stone Edge. If the opponent realizes what I'm doing and sends in a spin blocker, then Sucker Punch can help take care of that. Adamant nature makes sure that I can OHKO 0HP/0Def Rotom-A with Sucker Punch after Stealth Rock. Even a 252HP/168Def Rotom-A, the most physically defensive one, takes up to about 67% damage from Sucker Punch. Still, the best part about this set is that if the opponent sends in something like Zapdos or Skarmory to counter Lee, then I'm guaranteed to get in a Rapid Spin.

Any thoughts?

windsong
6th September 2010, 1:38 AM
In reality, the set is entirely based on the surprise value of Hitmonlee, and thus, completely outclassed by Hitmontop, who has Intimidate, more bulk overall, Technician, and can reliably use Foresight.

edit: and as a spinner in OU, Hitmontop is outclassed by LO Starmie, so it's kind of a double fail.

James Bondage
6th September 2010, 4:41 AM
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/468.png@ Leftovers / Life Orb)
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Quiet (+SpAtk / - Speed)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 4 Speed
Moveset:
- Body Slam
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
- Softboiled / Roost / Wish

Seeing Togekiss in the lead possisstion on any team usually means one of two things. It's pack Choice Scarf (and usually Trick, as well), or it's going to throw out a thunder Wave n anything it can't outspeed.

This set give it one more option in the lead spot. Should the opponents lead attempt to Taunt, they find themselves on the end of a STAB Body Slam that will do a surprisingly good ammount of damage, hitting Azelf and Infernape leads for just over 50% damage, and a 60% paralysis rate, to get the 2HKO.

Should they switch, they have the same chance of being paralyzed, and you have the option of switching to a new move, as oppossed to being locked into a move as the Choice Scarf variant allows you to do. This will also allow you a chance to paralyze Scarf Flygon, which you normally can not do.

4 Speed EVs will still always let you out speed lead Machamp, to hit for SE on turn one, with a good chance for the flinch. You also will also outspeed non-Scarfed neutral natured Tyranitar, and any Bronzong.

Later in the battle Togekiss can be brought back to do it's dirty work the same way it most generally tries to do. First the paralysis, then the flinch, or the SE attack from either Aura Sphere or Fire Blast.

Beware of Gengar and Mismagus later in the battle, becuse they rape this this set.

Hawkflight
8th September 2010, 3:46 AM
Okay, I need some advice on a Dusknoir moveset.

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Will-O-Wisp
-Pain Split
-Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Earthquake
-Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Earthquake

As you can see, I'm having trouble deciding on my last two moves. ^^; The elemental punches are for coverage. Sucker Punch is a strong STAB move and gets priority (I think). And Earthquake is Earthquake. Here's a link to the entire team if it helps (which I'm sure it will). http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...42#post2954642

Crobat Ray
10th September 2010, 8:03 AM
Boo.
Hi guys. I was reading my new post and someone tells that the Shuckle should be changed (Which is the only annoyer on my team) which moveset:

Shuckle@Ganlon Berry
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 126 Def/ 126 SpD/ 4Att
Abillity: Gluttony
- Bide
- Knock off
- Wrap
- Encore

Then i realized that on my other team i have a jumpluff that works better on annoying, but take hits less:

Jumpluff@White herb (Screech are no-no)
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Spe/ 126 Hp/ 126 Att/ 4 Def
Abillity: Leaf guard
- Sleep powder
- Encore
- U-Turn
- Seed Bomb

Which one should i go with, or something entirely different (But still an annoyer, please)?

Eaglehawk
10th September 2010, 5:54 PM
Boo.
Hi guys. I was reading my new post and someone tells that the Shuckle should be changed (Which is the only annoyer on my team) which moveset:

Shuckle@Ganlon Berry
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 126 Def/ 126 SpD/ 4Att
Abillity: Gluttony
- Bide
- Knock off
- Wrap
- Encore

Then i realized that on my other team i have a jumpluff that works better on annoying, but take hits less:

Jumpluff@White herb (Screech are no-no)
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Spe/ 126 Hp/ 126 Att/ 4 Def
Abillity: Leaf guard
- Sleep powder
- Encore
- U-Turn
- Seed Bomb

Which one should i go with, or something entirely different (But still an annoyer, please)?

For Shuckle, you're better off with Leftovers.

fschulze47
12th September 2010, 4:26 AM
Okay, I need some advice on a Dusknoir moveset.

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Will-O-Wisp
-Pain Split
-Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Earthquake
-Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Earthquake

As you can see, I'm having trouble deciding on my last two moves. ^^; The elemental punches are for coverage. Sucker Punch is a strong STAB move and gets priority (I think). And Earthquake is Earthquake. Here's a link to the entire team if it helps (which I'm sure it will). http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...42#post2954642

Shadow Sneak and Fire Punch tend to be best alongside WoW and Pain Split. Fire Punch helps with Scizor, but Tpunch can be considered if you want to take out Gyara. I'd recommend going for a jump point in the EVs.

Go 252 Hp/ 216 Def./ 40 Atk

dragontamer98
12th September 2010, 5:43 AM
I would go with Thunderpunch and Fire Punch to cover the two RapidSpinners that Duskinoir is meant to block: Starmie and Forretress.

On to my rate:

Rhyperior@Life Orb
Ability:Solid Rock
Nature:Adamant
EVs:252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 4 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Rock Wrecker
-Earthquake
-Superpower
This is my custom suicide lead. Main goal is to set up SR and kill as much as possible. What I would do after SR is up depends on the opponent lead. You may be wondering why I would have Rock Wrecker, or any type of "Hyper Beam"-like moves, but this would just add on to the "suicide" part of it. Plus Rock Wrecker gets STAB. :D Earthquake is for more STAB and Superpower is for Normal and Dark switch-in from those annoying Ambipom leads. The reason I chose Rhyperior over most leads for the fact that he gets STAB Rock Wrecker and can also set up Stealth Rock, and it covers all the other leads in the UU metagame, yes, this was made for UU.

James Bondage
13th September 2010, 5:28 AM
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/sprites/plmfa/130.png
(Leftovers)
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP /220 Def / 32 Speed
Moveset: Substitue / Roar / Thunder Wave / Waterfall


This Gyarados variant is for support, not actually attacking anything. Will work AMAZINGLY weel with SR and Spikes support.

The idea here is to first, set up your sub, then T-Wave or Roar stuff. T-Wave works wonders versus those Pokes that might want to try to phaze your sub, because your Roar will always go first.

Proceed to shuffle through your opponents Pokes until you have racked up enough damage to let pretty much any mixed sweeper do it's dirty work.

Physically bulky ground types will give this Gyarados issues. Bulky waters will do the same.

A few other usual Gyarados counters are completely checked though. This Gyarados has absolutely no problem aat all getting past Skarmory, Flygon, Azelf, Jolteon, or Gengar as long as a sub is up.

Eaglehawk
13th September 2010, 10:38 PM
I would go with Thunderpunch and Fire Punch to cover the two RapidSpinners that Duskinoir is meant to block: Starmie and Forretress.

On to my rate:

Rhyperior@Life Orb
Ability:Solid Rock
Nature:Adamant
EVs:252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 4 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Rock Wrecker
-Earthquake
-Superpower
This is my custom suicide lead. Main goal is to set up SR and kill as much as possible. What I would do after SR is up depends on the opponent lead. You may be wondering why I would have Rock Wrecker, or any type of "Hyper Beam"-like moves, but this would just add on to the "suicide" part of it. Plus Rock Wrecker gets STAB. :D Earthquake is for more STAB and Superpower is for Normal and Dark switch-in from those annoying Ambipom leads. The reason I chose Rhyperior over most leads for the fact that he gets STAB Rock Wrecker and can also set up Stealth Rock, and it covers all the other leads in the UU metagame, yes, this was made for UU.

Suicide Lead: Noun: A Pokemon whose sole purpose is to set up Entry Hazards while preventing the opponent at the same time. An effective suicide lead has high speeds.

jesusfreak94
13th September 2010, 11:15 PM
This is a set that I've been considering for a Tyranitar sweep on a team of mine. Tell me what you think of it.

Tyranitar@Shuca Berry
Jolly
Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 HP
Moves:
-Dragon Dance
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Well, first off this is not my set, but one I saw in a recent Smogon article. The main point of this set is to be able to defeat the normal checks to a DD Tar. Flygon is one major example. Tyranitar can set up a Dragon Dance on the switch, and take less than 50% from Flygon's Earthquake and KO back with Ice Punch. Then he can sweep the opponent's team, provided that the opponent doesn't have another Tyranitar counter/check available. Shuca Berry also helps add survivability against Ground type attacks from other Pokemon, which will allow Tyranitar to set up and sweep more easily.

Any advice on how to make this set better? Remember, the main purpose is to defeat the common counters to a DD Tar set. Any thoughts?

Edit: I just noticed that another person posted a team with a similar set. I wonder if he read the same article I did...

proto96
14th September 2010, 2:43 AM
I have an idea:

Shuckle@lifeorb
252 def, 252 spd, 4 hp
whatever nature that raises def/spd and takes away spA(new to natures, knew they were there just dont know what all of them do)
-toxic
-rest
-stealth rock
-encore

What do you think of this as an annoyer/wall

hobby
14th September 2010, 7:39 AM
Suicide Lead: Noun: A Pokemon whose sole purpose is to set up Entry Hazards while preventing the opponent at the same time. An effective suicide lead has high speeds.
Nitpick, that is not the definition of a suicide lead, the definition of a suicide lead is one that does its job as a lead (whatever it may be) and then dies. Though you are right in saying that set is not a suicide lead.


I wonder if he read the same article I did...
It is fair to say most people did, there is really nothing to rate there, that is an already proven set (obviously so, seeing as it has an article at smogon and all).

@proto96 the moves are fine, but everything else needs to be changed. That Life Orb is doing absolutely nothing, so replace it with Leftovers. Go with an Impish nature with the spread 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD. It is not exactly a new set, but it does its job. That said, it works better in a sandstorm.

proto96
15th September 2010, 2:01 AM
Sorry about that, it was a typo meant to be leftovers. Not that bad @ pokemon lol.

fschulze47
15th September 2010, 2:14 AM
Ugggh soo many people suggest Shuckles as viable competitive Pokemon, but they aren't. People should actually post sets on here that are new.

Trainer 9000
20th September 2010, 11:14 AM
I've been thinking of this snorlax set so here it goes
@chesto berry
adamant
252HP/128atack/128spd
belly drum
rest
return
crunch/EQ/fire punch

I use belly drum to max my attack and rest so I'm max HP again.Return for stab but can't decide on extra move. 252 HP and 128 spd is so i'll survive after belly drum.Thinking about Attack EV's being swapped with defence since ishould be able to kill anyone on max attack so i might not need them.

iamUNOWN
20th September 2010, 11:47 PM
I've been thinking of this snorlax set so here it goes
@chesto berry
adamant
252HP/128atack/128spd
belly drum
rest
return
crunch/EQ/fire punch

I use belly drum to max my attack and rest so I'm max HP again.Return for stab but can't decide on extra move. 252 HP and 128 spd is so i'll survive after belly drum.Thinking about Attack EV's being swapped with defence since ishould be able to kill anyone on max attack so i might not need them.
LOL :P i thought it was pretty funny how your sig says "i dont care about iv's ev's or any other v's" but u are talking about how ur ev training :P

jesusfreak94
20th September 2010, 11:59 PM
I've been thinking of this snorlax set so here it goes
@chesto berry
adamant
252HP/128atack/128spd
belly drum
rest
return
crunch/EQ/fire punch

I use belly drum to max my attack and rest so I'm max HP again.Return for stab but can't decide on extra move. 252 HP and 128 spd is so i'll survive after belly drum.Thinking about Attack EV's being swapped with defence since ishould be able to kill anyone on max attack so i might not need them.

Looks kinda interesting. However, first you've got to make sure that your opponent doesn't have something like Infernape or Machamp that can KO it after it sets up Belly Drum. You'll need to either partner this guy up with a lead or run him on a Trick Room team. As far as your EVs go, you may as well go with a setup like this: 252Atk/252Def/4SpD. Softens physical hits, maximizes offensive potential. Speed EVs on Snorlax is useless. Even Jolly 252 Spe Snorlax can't hope to sweep. Also, with something with such a huge HP stat, you should max out defenses first.

Trainer 9000
21st September 2010, 8:42 AM
Looks kinda interesting. However, first you've got to make sure that your opponent doesn't have something like Infernape or Machamp that can KO it after it sets up Belly Drum. You'll need to either partner this guy up with a lead or run him on a Trick Room team. As far as your EVs go, you may as well go with a setup like this: 252Atk/252Def/4SpD. Softens physical hits, maximizes offensive potential. Speed EVs on Snorlax is useless. Even Jolly 252 Spe Snorlax can't hope to sweep. Also, with something with such a huge HP stat, you should max out defenses first.[/QUOTE]

yes i run it in double battle with a trick roomer (usually Ryperier) and it's sucsessfully sweeped every time it's played.I'm considering your EV's but i don't think attack EV's are needed with belly drum. Maybe 252 def/ 252 spd/ 4 hp?

jesusfreak94
21st September 2010, 10:36 PM
yes i run it in double battle with a trick roomer (usually Ryperier) and it's sucsessfully sweeped every time it's played.I'm considering your EV's but i don't think attack EV's are needed with belly drum. Maybe 252 def/ 252 spd/ 4 hp?

If you're going to run it on a Trick Room team, then you definitely don't want any speed, as that will make you slower in Trick Room. To be honest, I'm not sure that Snorlax will survive long enough on a double battle team to get up Belly Drum use Rest, and then sleep for a couple of turns. You'd be better off with a straight up attacking set.

And if you're sure that you won't need Attack EVs, then a 252Def/252SpD/4HP set might work.

And, uh, Rhyperior with Trick Room?

Sweep Freak
22nd September 2010, 11:46 PM
I run a pretty powerful rain team, and I like Mixed Kingdra. But, I can't decide on the final slot.



Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spe
Nature: Naughty
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / Hydro Pump / Outrage
The other moves were decided. I'd prefer to use Hydro Pump, and can kill so many things in OU, thanks to rain. But Outrage is supposed to handle things, and allow me to use outrage easier.

jesusfreak94
23rd September 2010, 11:30 PM
^Outrage.

Outrage helps you handle Blissey so much easier. And if you're running another special move, then Waterfall will be the only move that you have that won't have its power cut in half.

Electric
26th September 2010, 12:39 AM
My 2nd competitive Pokemon ever making. (1st was Breloom.)

;474;
Porygon-Z @ Ganion Berry
Ability: Adaptablilty
EVs: 4 HP?/252 Sp.Atk/252 Spd
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Discharge
- Shadow Ball

Help a poor noob out cause I obviously don't know much at all...

Ganion Berry just because. I was also considering putting a Life Orb instead. I absolutely have no idea what to give Pokemon when it comes to items.

Adaptablilty to double the power of Tri Attack.

252 Sp.Atk to maximize its power. 252 Spd to make sure it goes first, like it should. And I didn't care where the other 4 EVs went. But my EVs should probably be fixed by an expert.

Tri Attack because it's 80 power x2 for Adaptablity and x1.5 for STAB = 240 power!!!
Recover?
Discharge to be able to hit annoying Pokemon like Gyarados and Skarmory.
Shadow Ball to hit Ghost Pokemon.

Like I said before, I know little about competitive battling, but would like to join in. I'm screwed if I run into a Steelix or other annoying Pokemon.

dragontamer98
26th September 2010, 2:35 AM
I have an idea of a Victreebel set, I was wondering if it was any good. Here it is:

Victreebel @ Salac Berry
Ability:Gluttony
Nature:Careful
EVs: 252 HP/ 112 Defence/ 144 SpD
-Stockpile
-Toxic/ Giga Drain
-Rest/ Venom Shock/ Giga Drain
-Wrap/ Rest
Obviously this set is to be used in Black and White. This set attempts to Toxic Stall many Pokemon while not allowing them to escape as well as keeping in potential set-up fodder. Would be especially useful with Toxic Spikes (x2) support because it would spare you a move slot. Venom Shock does 195 Base Power with STAB and Giga Drain can be somewhat of a recovery option as well as a damaging STAB move, in which case it would help to run Big Root to increase the gain of Giga Drain. Wrap is for obvious reasons, but Rest can fill in if you don't want to rely on Giga Drain's recovery, and the sleep status won't be minded after a few Stockpiles. If you don't think this StockRest (lol, I named it) combo won't work, trust me, it has, I have been testing it on Gastrodon and Drifblim, Drifblim more successful due to Unburden (hint hint).

dragontamer98
26th September 2010, 2:36 AM
I have an idea of a Victreebel set, I was wondering if it was any good. Here it is:

Victreebel @ Salac Berry
Ability:Gluttony
Nature:Calm
EVs: 252 HP/ 144 Defence/ 112 SpD
-Stockpile
-Toxic/ Giga Drain
-Rest/ Venom Shock/ Giga Drain
-Wrap/ Rest
Obviously this set is to be used in Black and White. This set attempts to Toxic Stall many Pokemon while not allowing them to escape as well as keeping in potential set-up fodder. Would be especially useful with Toxic Spikes (x2) support because it would spare you a move slot. Venom Shock does 195 Base Power with STAB and Giga Drain can be somewhat of a recovery option as well as a damaging STAB move, in which case it would help to run Big Root to increase the gain of Giga Drain. Wrap is for obvious reasons, but Rest can fill in if you don't want to rely on Giga Drain's recovery, and the sleep status won't be minded after a few Stockpiles. If you don't think this StockRest (lol, I named it) combo won't work, trust me, it has, I have been testing it on Gastrodon and Drifblim, Drifblim more successful due to Unburden (hint hint).

Squinshee
26th September 2010, 5:14 AM
Let me preface: I'm new here and to the competitive Pokemon scene completely. I have finally grasped breeding, IV's, EV's, and I have made the following Jolteon:

Hidden Power Ice
Baton Pass
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball

SpeAtk: 252, Spe: 252, SpeDef: 4

Thing is...I don't have a team in mind at all. I have never had a competitive team, but I just really wanted a cool Jolteon. Can someone here tell me what other pokemon I should train in order to make a competent team? Thanks. I really just need a team to start learning how battles go down.

cakedup
26th September 2010, 5:24 PM
I need a spin blocker but I dont want to use rotom-A. Which of the following two sets would be more worthwhile on a sandstall team.

Gengar w/Life Orb
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt (Gyara weakness)
Pain Split
Substitute
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def

SB for Stab, Thunderbolt for Gyara, Substitute for scouting pursuit, and Pain Split for recovery. Sub and Life Orb ensure my HP is low so that Pain Spkit really hurts.

Mismagius w/ Leftovers
Curse
Protect
Substitute
Pain Split
Timid
252 Def/4 SpD/252 Spe

This set plays drastically different than the Gengar set. The ev's give the maximum defenses with the lowest hp for pain split. Sub on he first turn, curse the second, and either protect or pain split on the third. The choice is yours. Curse plus toxic spikes adds up quickly and most things won't stay in for long.

dragontamer98
27th September 2010, 3:33 AM
I need a spin blocker but I dont want to use rotom-A. Which of the following two sets would be more worthwhile on a sandstall team.

Gengar w/Life Orb
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt (Gyara weakness)
Pain Split
Substitute
Timid
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Def

SB for Stab, Thunderbolt for Gyara, Substitute for scouting pursuit, and Pain Split for recovery. Sub and Life Orb ensure my HP is low so that Pain Spkit really hurts.

Mismagius w/ Leftovers
Curse
Protect
Substitute
Pain Split
Timid
252 Def/4 SpD/252 Spe

This set plays drastically different than the Gengar set. The ev's give the maximum defenses with the lowest hp for pain split. Sub on he first turn, curse the second, and either protect or pain split on the third. The choice is yours. Curse plus toxic spikes adds up quickly and most things won't stay in for long.

I would use a Duskinior set if I was not using Rotom, i personally think that Pain Split would be more effective on a Duskinior because of lower HP. He can pull off both roles that you are aiming for, Spinnblocking and Gyara counter. This is the set I had in mind.

Duskinoir@Leftovers
Ability:Pressure
Nature:Careful
EVs: 136 Attack/ 252 Defence/ 120 SpD
-Thunderpunch
-Pain Split
-Curse
-Pursuit
Thunderpunch is obviously to counter Gyara, but Puruit can catch a fleeing one off guard. Pain Split is to keep you healthy. Curse can be used in conjunction with Pursuit to net some KOs. The EVs give as much bulk as possible without HP and the rest were dumped into Attack. Leftovers is to balance the Sandstorm that you're dealing with.

emeraldsalamance
28th September 2010, 3:32 AM
Hey guys, i bred this Dratini and well, it took quite a while since the parents had awful IVs, but i think i got a right one

IVs: 15 HP / 18 Atk / 26 Def / 17 Sp.Atk / 25 Sp. Def / 28 Speed

Yeah, i know what you guys think, it's most important stats have the lowest EVs, but they're not that bad they're higher than 15, plus it's got awesome speed

So what you guys think, should i bred a better one or should i train this one?

Oh yeah, i should i add that i want this Dragonite to be, how do you call them, a cleaner? Those that KO the opponent pokemon after they've been Scout'd/Rock stealth'd/semi KO'd thats why i think his Atk Evs are not that bad, but you guys are the scholars on this, so give me your opinion.

Sumec
28th September 2010, 8:29 AM
;338; Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 Special Defense, 6 HP
Nature: Impish
- Zen Headbutt
- Rock Slide
- Cosmic Power
- Rest

Please allow me to start by saying that I have little experience in what is considered competitive. In general, I have a vague understanding of what is OU, and what is UU, but I certainly haven't taken it to the extent of whipping out Calculators or anything, disclaimer aside, here is my logic.

Zen Headbutt and Rock Slide would be for STAB, Cosmic Power boosts it's defenses, while Rest is there to restore health. I also run a Lanturn with Heal Bell, so it is my understanding that I could use Rest, switch to Lanturn, who can also take hits admirably, and use Heal Bell. This would be even more nice if they were going after Solrock with Ice at the time.

However, in my research, I've noticed that most Solrocks have been packing Trick Room, Explosion, etc. I'm mostly interested in a sort of hybrid tank here, the team would be aimed primarily towards the UU bracket. I'm curious if this set up is viable, or a waste of effort.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Eaglehawk
29th September 2010, 10:27 PM
I have an idea of a Victreebel set, I was wondering if it was any good. Here it is:

Victreebel @ Salac Berry
Ability:Gluttony
Nature:Calm
EVs: 252 HP/ 144 Defence/ 112 SpD
-Stockpile
-Toxic/ Giga Drain
-Rest/ Venom Shock/ Giga Drain
-Wrap/ Rest
Obviously this set is to be used in Black and White. This set attempts to Toxic Stall many Pokemon while not allowing them to escape as well as keeping in potential set-up fodder. Would be especially useful with Toxic Spikes (x2) support because it would spare you a move slot. Venom Shock does 195 Base Power with STAB and Giga Drain can be somewhat of a recovery option as well as a damaging STAB move, in which case it would help to run Big Root to increase the gain of Giga Drain. Wrap is for obvious reasons, but Rest can fill in if you don't want to rely on Giga Drain's recovery, and the sleep status won't be minded after a few Stockpiles. If you don't think this StockRest (lol, I named it) combo won't work, trust me, it has, I have been testing it on Gastrodon and Drifblim, Drifblim more successful due to Unburden (hint hint).
This subforum is Gen IV. That set is Gen V.

Goodbye.

;338; Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 Special Defense, 6 HP
Nature: Impish
- Zen Headbutt
- Rock Slide
- Cosmic Power
- Rest

Please allow me to start by saying that I have little experience in what is considered competitive. In general, I have a vague understanding of what is OU, and what is UU, but I certainly haven't taken it to the extent of whipping out Calculators or anything, disclaimer aside, here is my logic.

Zen Headbutt and Rock Slide would be for STAB, Cosmic Power boosts it's defenses, while Rest is there to restore health. I also run a Lanturn with Heal Bell, so it is my understanding that I could use Rest, switch to Lanturn, who can also take hits admirably, and use Heal Bell. This would be even more nice if they were going after Solrock with Ice at the time.

However, in my research, I've noticed that most Solrocks have been packing Trick Room, Explosion, etc. I'm mostly interested in a sort of hybrid tank here, the team would be aimed primarily towards the UU bracket. I'm curious if this set up is viable, or a waste of effort.

Thank you in advance for your time.
I see where your reasoning is, but this is gimmicky. Here is why:
Cosmic Power isn't really used as much and only seen on some sets. One Pokemon that uses it is Clefable. Now, no matter how bulky you are, even with 6 CPs under your belt, you have no way to really be a threat. Zenn Headbutt and Rock Slide off of a base 90 Att isn't very threatening. Plus, with Rest, it has two turns of doing nothing, allowing your opponents to boost or Phaze.

Solrock@Passho Berry
Impish/Levitate
252 HP/100 Def/156 SpDef
-Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Stealth Rock
-Explosion

This is a Solrock bait set. I doubt this can work effectively, but oh well. Come in on walls like Chansey, chances they will switch out into something that can get rid of it, which are Absol, Milotic or any other Water-Type, and Venusaur. It's all about prediction. So when they switch in, you explode and take them with you. Now the reason this set is also gimmicky is that Solrock has crappy typing as well as crappy defenses, along with the fact its Speed isn't great. Even though it boasts weaknesses to common attacking types in UU, some can actually kill Solrock before it explodes e.g. CB Azumarill.

Pearl Parukia
5th October 2010, 1:23 AM
Hey, I need a rate for this pokemon.
You see, the problem is that my cousin runs this Uber team (he EV trains pokemon and breeds like any other competitive trainer), but you see, the problem is that I cannot get through his Kyogre. I want to beat him in a double battle but his Kyogre simply drives me nuts. His Kyogre is the classic Scarf set:

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Drizzle ability
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
Moveset:
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

I have thought of a pokemon that could outrun his Kyogre and nice damage to it before it can even use Water Spout. I have thought of using this baby:

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Levitate ability
Modest nature
EV's: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
Moveset:
- Thunder
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Explosion

According with my calculations, a Modest Gengar with 31 IV in Speed and 252 EV's are enough to outrun any scarfed Kyogre. According to Smogon's calculator, a Modest Gengar with 252 EV in SpA, does 62.6-74.3% using Thunder on a Scarfed Kyogre. I want to know if this a good set, or if you got a better option against a Scarfed Kyogre.

foxyman1167
9th October 2010, 3:28 AM
I had these sets planned for a few UU battles and some Battle Frontier;

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/81/Spr_4p_282.png

Gardevoir @ Bold
Leftovers @ Trace
252 HP/252 Defense/6 Sp. Attack
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt
-Calm Mind
-Will-O-Wisp/Thunderwave

Psychic+Thunderbolt get great coverage, resisted only by Steelix and Shedinja, and are its offense. Calm Mind to boost for a sweep, and either Will-O-Wisp or Thunderwave to cripple foes, and make set up easier.

I can't decide on the final slot. Will-O-Wisp is better to slow down Physical sweepers that can hit Gardevoir's lower Defense, while Thunderwave literally slows down everyone. The major problem with Will-O-Wisp is if Houndoom switches in on the WoW, gets the FF boost, and destroys me with Pursuit/Fire Blast.

The reason Trace > Synchronize is to fire back Intimidates and the like.

The other one was;

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f6/Spr_4d_232_m.png

Donphan @ Impish
Leftovers @ Sturdy
252 HP/252 Defense/6 Attack
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Rapid Spin
-Knock Off

Earthquake for STAB, Ice Shard to hit Flying types for SE damage and pick off weaker foes, Rapid Spin to spin away SR/Spikes/TS, and Knock Off for surprise value, to rid Chansey/Milotic/Venusaur of LO, and hit Ghosts that SpinBlock.

Donphan obviously has major problems with Special sweepers, so I figured they could form a pair to take hits from both sides of the spectrum, although they don't resist each others weakness's, and have a problem with no way to recover HP.

xMetagrossx
9th October 2010, 1:21 PM
^omg u have the same Gardevoir as me no joke. I went with WoW for nice damage every turn while u set up and because Gardevoir is pretty fast.

Skarmory@Leftovers
Sturdy@Impish
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Toxic
-Fly

Im using dual entry hazards which of course will take about 4 turns to fully set up. Toxic i found is handy for leftover usars and gives nice collateral while i set up instead of just being a sitting target. Fly is great stab and the turn in the air also helps out stall opponents who will have to decide about switching in a counter which will be crippled by entry hazards.

foxyman1167
9th October 2010, 4:18 PM
^omg u have the same Gardevoir as me no joke. I went with WoW for nice damage every turn while u set up and because Gardevoir is pretty fast.

Skarmory@Leftovers
Sturdy@Impish
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Toxic
-Fly

Im using dual entry hazards which of course will take about 4 turns to fully set up. Toxic i found is handy for leftover usars and gives nice collateral while i set up instead of just being a sitting target. Fly is great stab and the turn in the air also helps out stall opponents who will have to decide about switching in a counter which will be crippled by entry hazards.

The problem with Fly is that while you're in the air, the opponent can freely switch in a spinner and ruin your fun.

iamUNOWN
9th October 2010, 4:55 PM
i have an adamant riolu and i wanted to know if this would be a good spread for it, so it will be a strong lucario

adamant nature
evs: 216 Atk/40 Def/252 Spe
Swords Dance
Close Combat
ExtremeSpeed
Stone Edge / Bullet Punch

foxyman1167
9th October 2010, 7:13 PM
i have an adamant riolu and i wanted to know if this would be a good spread for it, so it will be a strong lucario

Jolly nature
evs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
Swords Dance
Close Combat
ExtremeSpeed
Stone Edge

Comments in bold.

Lokid
9th October 2010, 10:13 PM
Right, I have some pokes on my team, with some moves that I really don't get to use that often. The thing I really need to know here is which of the listed moves will be better, or if there's another move that would fill that slot better (i don't want changes in EVs, natures and such, the role of the poke remains the same).

Basically I just need my pokemons movesets optimized.

The pokemon in question will be as follows:

Donphan

Hariyama

Registeel

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/anime/anime232.jpg
Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Speed
Nature: Adamant
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Assurance (move in question, potential replacement - Stone Edge)

Right, so this is my lead poke. It's basically there to set up stealth rocks and switch out for the late-game.

Earthquake is for obvious STAB, so no reason to talk too much on that one.

Ice Shard is mostly for flying leads or picking off weakened flying/grass types.
Assurance is for ghost and psychic types, especially levitating psychics such as Uxie and Mesprit, but also for ghosts such as Mismagius.

What I basically want to know here, is Assurance preferable over Stone Edge? The only way i can see Assurance being better, is if a Psychic type switches in on it after you have rocks up, but that just doesn't happen that much i find.

Also, i feel like i'll have a better shot against flyers with the combo of Stone Edge/Ice Shard, while til being able to hit ghosts and levitating psychics quite hard if needed.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/anime/anime297.jpg
Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 Special Def
Nature: Adamant
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch (Move in question, possible replacement - Payback)

So this guy is one of my late game sweepers. He can easily come in and pick of weakened pokes with Fake Out + Bullet Punch, and rip holes in all but ghosts with Facade + Close Combat.

Fake Out is there mostly to get Toxic going, and to just get a bit of free damage on later switch-ins.

Facade hits everything that resists Close Combat, extremely hard. It's also a nice choice to have, if you're certain that Facade can take out something that you'd normally use Close Combat for. It just saves you that def/Sp. Def drop.

Close Combat is the obvious STAB move, chosen over Brick Break, Cross Chop and Force Palm because of the accuracy and power.

Bullet Punch is as mentioned the move in question. It IS nice for picking off pokes combined with Fake Out, but it doesn't really happen often enough to warrant the moveslot. Besides, i already have 2 other pokes with prio moves so it's not really that important. Also, it doesn't have a shot in hell to kill a ghost type, which just counter my Hari completely.

Hence me wondering about swapping BP with Payback. Just to be able to hit those Ghosts and Psychics on the switch and then make me able to sweep on. I'm not choosing to replace Facade, since Hari really needs to one-shot everything he gets a shot at, and he wont do that to a flying/poison type with Payback.

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/pictures/anime/anime379.jpg
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Sp. Def
Nature: Careful
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch (Move in question, possible replacement - Iron Head)

Ahh registeel, how I love you. This guy is my wall for everything, but mostly specials. He's a double status one, which really has served me well, as he stops any setup sweepers from staying in. He's also jsut great for taking down any wall really, since he can't be poisoned himself, and his great defenses + lefties keep him in long enough for most walls to die.

Toxic is his main damage source. Its stops any setup poke that can get poisoned from staying in, helps kill bulky pokes, and just works really well with Registeels longevity.

Thunder Wave is for the fast but weak pokes. It lets my heavy hitters come in and destroy those who would otherwise outspeed them, and it gives me an alternate status for various Steel/poison types.

Earthquake is for previously mentioned Steel/Poison types, that cant be hit by Toxic. Also, very few things resist it, so it's just good for extra damage in general.

Ice Punch is the move in question. The reason this Registeel has Ice Punch, is that he was actually made for OU back before Garchomp (and later Salamence) went to Uber. Almost everything had to have an ice move, but now there are almost no dragons left, and i'm now using him for UU (with even less dragons).

The move i'm thinking of using instead is Iron Head. Still hits Altaria and flyers with only a 30 power drop, but just also hits everthing else that much harder. I already have several other pokes with ice type moves, so this one doesn't really need it anymore. On this one, do tell me if you have an alternative that is even better than Iron Head, as it was the first thing on my mind TBH.

I know that was a lot =) But you don't have to answer them all. 1 or 2 is fine (would love 3 though ^^).

Evil X
10th October 2010, 6:10 AM
I'm new to the competitive battling, so I would like to have some opinions on this swampert that I want to train.

;260; Relaxed Nature
Move Set:
Curse
Earthquake
Aqua Tail

I want this swampert be either a defensive wall that can do some decent damage to the opponent or a staller. I plan on using curse to raise my defence as well as offence and then use earthquake or aqua tail. I want your opinion on what other move I should teach him and if it should be a staller or a wall.
I also want to know where I can go to rate the team I made for competitive battling.

Alerion
10th October 2010, 8:16 AM
Ive been trading an Eevee lately and still cant decide which evo to evolve him into.
Heres a strategy I thought of for Jolteon being special support/speed passer


;135;
Nature:Timid
4 HP/252 Speed/252 Special Attack
Move Set:
-Thunderbolt
-Agility
-Thunder Wave
-Baton Pass

Strategy-
Jolteon can either switch in on something weak to electric or thunder wave the opponent & thunderbolt them.Another use is thunder wave then agility and after Jolteon is a speed god he can be an insanely fast sweeper or baton pass to a pokemon that needs a speed boost in your party/another sweeper that is now also fast.

I literally thought up and wrote this moveset in about five minutes hahah.
So bring all the constructive criticism as needed, I really want to use a Jolteon on my wifi team :)

pupintheturd
10th October 2010, 4:51 PM
Alerion, jolteon really doesn't need both agility And thunder wave because he already is a
base 130 speed poke so you could try replacing thunder wave with substitute or an attack

foxyman1167
10th October 2010, 7:45 PM
I'm new to the competitive battling, so I would like to have some opinions on this swampert that I want to train.

;260; Impish Nature
Move Set:
Curse
Earthquake
Waterfall
Stone Edge/Ice Punch

Use Waterfall over Aqua Tail for more reliable attacking power. Ice Punch/Stone Edge goes in the final slot to hit Flying types that resist Water.

Stone Edge hits Gyarados harder than Ice Punch, or Ice Punch hits Dragonite harder than Stone Edge. Also hits Flygon hard.

I want this swampert be either a defensive wall that can do some decent damage to the opponent or a staller. I plan on using curse to raise my defence as well as offence and then use earthquake or aqua tail. I want your opinion on what other move I should teach him and if it should be a staller or a wall.
I also want to know where I can go to rate the team I made for competitive battling.

Go here (http://serebiiforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=198)


Ive been trading an Eevee lately and still cant decide which evo to evolve him into.
Heres a strategy I thought of for Jolteon being special support/speed passer


;135;
Nature:Timid
4 HP/252 Speed/252 Special Attack
Move Set:
-Thunderbolt
-Agility
-Thunder Wave
-Baton Pass

Strategy-
Jolteon can either switch in on something weak to electric or thunder wave the opponent & thunderbolt them.Another use is thunder wave then agility and after Jolteon is a speed god he can be an insanely fast sweeper or baton pass to a pokemon that needs a speed boost in your party/another sweeper that is now also fast.

I literally thought up and wrote this moveset in about five minutes hahah.
So bring all the constructive criticism as needed, I really want to use a Jolteon on my wifi team :)

Looks fine to me, although completely walled by Ground types.


Alerion, jolteon really doesn't need both agility And thunder wave because he already is a
base 130 speed poke so you could try replacing thunder wave with substitute or an attack

He's using Jolteon to cripple the opponent and BP Agility.

Fried Rhys
10th October 2010, 7:49 PM
zapdos would do that better

xMetagrossx
12th October 2010, 11:06 PM
whats a good ev spread for a Sassy Registeel to get it max hp 200Attk and even defenses. Im using this set.

Registeel@Leftovers
Sassy
-Iron Head
-Thunder Punch
-Curse
-Amnesia
The idea is I switch it in on a resistant attack and raise the stat to counter there attacks. Then I use Curse to raise its attack(to 400 after 2) and use Iron Head for great stab and Thunder Punch for bulky waters and just more neutral coverage

pupintheturd
13th October 2010, 9:33 PM
you are using curse so you're defense will be boosted to huge levels
as while you sp def stays the same so invest in spdef
56 ev's for atk to have exactly 200 i didn't do any big calculations so correct me if i'm wrong
so a bit like this
registeel@leftovers
sassy nature
ev's 252 hp 56 atk 200spdef
iron head
curse
rest(no need for spdef boosters)
sleep talk/earthquake

earthquake for coverage
sleep talk for pokemon who try to set up on you while you're asleep

yinandyang
17th October 2010, 1:04 AM
I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so I'm not too sure what works and what doesn't, but here's an idea I'm working on.

Togekiss @ Serene Grace
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
King's Rock
Thunder Wave
Attract
Sweet Kiss
Air Slash

I hope to use it as an annoyer against anything it can switch into safely. Thunder Wave, Attract, and Sweet Kiss are all there to stop the opponent from being able to attack. Air Slash works with the others, but actually does damage. It has a 30% flinch rate to begin with, Serene Grace doubles it to 60%, then King's Rock boosts the flinch rate to 71.7%, if I've done my math right. I'm a bit worried about the accuracy of Sweet Kiss, though. I'm not sure whether I should use it or switch it out for something else like Reflect to help the entire team.

jesusfreak94
17th October 2010, 3:57 AM
^Togekiss sets that don't give the opponent a chance to attack are always good. But confusion and infatuation are to easy to cure, and infatuation is altogether inreliable. You'd be better off running Wish for recovery and Aura Sphere to keep Steels, Rocks, and to some extent Electrics from walling you. Also, I think hax items are banned in most battles, and I'm pretty sure Kings Rock is included. Try out Leftovers for additional recovery.

pupintheturd
17th October 2010, 5:38 PM
alright can someome plz rate this

Gallade@Life Orb
Nature adamant
ev's 252atk 252spe 4 hp
Shadow sneak
Psycho Cut
Close Combat
Swords Dance

it's a sweeper set with shadow sneak and CC for perfect coverage
Shadow sneak for priority also
And Psycho Cut for Bulky poisons like Weezing
Can i plz have a UU rate cuz i have a feeling Gallade will drop to UU
by 5th gen
is it any good?

xMetagrossx
17th October 2010, 5:56 PM
^ looks pretty good though i have to warn you you might want Leaf Blade over Shadow Sneak. Bulky waters will be a real pain if you aren't set up and if you give it a Jolly nature you shouldn't really need it anyway

cheeselord
17th October 2010, 6:12 PM
I'm new to competitive battling and would appreciate some advice with this idea.

Crobat@ choice band/black sludge
adamant nature (+atk -sp.atk)
252 atk 252 spd 4 hp (2?)
~U-turn
~cross poison
~brave bird
~taunt/hypnosis/another attacking move (if choiced)

&

Umbreon @ leftovers
relaxed nature (+def -spd)
252hp 156 def 100 sp.def (2?)
~moonlight
~baton pass
~confuse ray
~mean look/willow wisp

Basically the purpose of crobat is to hit and run either through switching (if using choice band) or U-turning. You will then switch in to umbreon so umbreon can take the hit aimed at crobat because crobat and umbreon counter each other’s weaknesses pretty well.

Moves

All of crobats moves are attacking moves (however if I decide to use black sludge I may add hypnosis or taunt) so it can do damage then flea. Umbreon has confuse ray for damage and the possibility of not being hit, mean look to stop an opponent fleeing, willow wisp to do damage and lower the opponents attack, moonlight for recovery and baton pass for switching back to crobat. You may be thinking why use baton pass when you could just switch out or why have a -spd nature when I could have a -atk or sp.atk one instead, this is because if I switch out then the pokemon I switch to takes the damage however if I baton pass and attack last then (hence the -spd) umbreon will take the opponents hit instead and crobat will not have been hurt at all. Also if one of the two pokemon faints then crobat and umbreon are both viable as a sweeper and wall respectively.

The major weakness to this strategy is stealth rock especially with crobat being weak to rock which is one of the reasons I am considering having taunt on it, if not I will have to use a starmie or aerodactyl in my team.

I would be grateful for any criticism or advice.

pupintheturd
17th October 2010, 6:21 PM
Umbreon is set-up bait but you can overcome that by using yawn instead of confuse ray
and that combined with mean look is almost always sleep i used one and it was awesome
but still set up bait and that is what screwed me over a couple of times

umbreon@leftovers
Nature Calm Careful (has no attacks)use equivalent that drop speed
Ev's 252hp 176Def 80spdef
Mean look
Baton Pass
Yawn
Moonlight/wish
is what i used
and by the way it doesn't get Wow
and Umbreon is really bad from my opinion and experience
exept at doing the above or curse what Snorlax does better tough

Crobat looks good but replace with jolly nature because Jolteon outruns and
screws it with a thunderbolt

Yup

cheeselord
17th October 2010, 6:27 PM
Thanks, and what do you think crobat's final move should be?

AlexKZ
17th October 2010, 6:40 PM
After playing doubles for a while, I'm deciding on starting a singles team. How is my Hitmontop?

Hitmotop @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 232 Att, 218 Def, 60 SpDef
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Fake Out
- Detect

I'm using my Hitmontop as either a scout or late game sweeper. Mach Punch is there for STAB, while Bullet Punch is used for the likes of flying types and Frosslass. Fake Out is my obvious free damage move, and Detect is there to scout out moves.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

pupintheturd
17th October 2010, 7:19 PM
Cheeselord i personally dislike Choice band but if you really want to i guess you should put
hypnosis :for team support
Taunt :worthless with Choice band
Other attack i don't have anything in mind as your STABs are walled by steel and Crobat hasn't got anything on steel so my guess is remove Choice band and hypnosis+u turn sleep with hypnosis and freedom to switch out with U turn

Edit:
AlexKz
Protect>Detect Protect more PP or that's what i heard somewhere
he has some Bulk issues i personnally think you should move the 60 spdef ev's to hp
but i don't know if it matters can't be bothered to do math in my weekend
it problably will be a great revenge killer but i doubt it can scout without intimidate and a non totally defensive Ev spread
and only protect

calze6
19th October 2010, 11:35 AM
I'm fairly new to competitive battling, so I'm not too sure what works and what doesn't, but here's an idea I'm working on.

Togekiss @ Serene Grace
Timid Nature
252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
King's Rock
Thunder Wave
Attract
Sweet Kiss
Air Slash

I hope to use it as an annoyer against anything it can switch into safely. Thunder Wave, Attract, and Sweet Kiss are all there to stop the opponent from being able to attack. Air Slash works with the others, but actually does damage. It has a 30% flinch rate to begin with, Serene Grace doubles it to 60%, then King's Rock boosts the flinch rate to 71.7%, if I've done my math right. I'm a bit worried about the accuracy of Sweet Kiss, though. I'm not sure whether I should use it or switch it out for something else like Reflect to help the entire team.

FYI, I'm quite sure that hax items are NOT banned, but kings rock, with a move that already causes flinch, only boosts the chance by like 4.3% or something (at least that's what smogon says). It's not worth it though. Air slash with para is already good enough and it'll run out of PP against like any resistor with the spam.

pupintheturd
20th October 2010, 5:23 PM
Alright to replace Gallade i have thought up this nifty set
on the First Water-Ground pokemon that existed

Quagsire@leftovers
Nature:Careful/adamant
Ev's:
or 252hp spdef252
Curse
Rest/Substitute
Sleep Talk/Yawn/Earthquake
Waterfall

i now run it with carefull and atks in Bold
yawn to force stuff out as it isn't very fearsome for any team as it most of the time is a supporter on other teams
Substitute to stop WoW's from pokemon like weezing and have a safecard to get off a yawn
and near unbreakable subswith curses of +6
it works great in OU due to less water absorbers and the neutrality of the STAB
and i have swept whole teams with it
but now i'm looking to use it in UU and i need some advice as it most of the time just died before it could do it's job in UU

jesusfreak94
20th October 2010, 10:52 PM
^You should definitely take advantage of Quagsire's access to Recover. Also, Earthquake and Stone Edge offer excellent coverage. Only a small number of Pokemon resist that combo, and the only one in UU I can think of is Claydol, who would be reluctant to switch into Quagsire anyways. Ice Punch and Earthquake also go great together, and iirc only Levitate Bronzong can resist it, which means that you would be home free in UU. Ice Punch is significantly weaker than Stone Edge, though.

Randomocity
21st October 2010, 3:00 AM
I've never done competitive wifi battling before, just casual ones with friends, so I'm rather ignorant about what moves go well in combination with a particular pokemon. I have two questions:

;335; Zangoose@Lum Berry/Shell Bell/Razor Claw
Nature: Adamant
252atk, 252speed, 4hp
Close Combat
Ice Punch
Last Resort/Return
Night Slash/Swords Dance/Substitute

Last Resort or Return is for STAB. Return is generally more reliable, being able to use it whenever, but if I can make it 3 rounds, I can deal a 205 power Last Resort with STAB. If I go with Return, I might get swords dance to beef it up. If I go with Last Resort, I'm probably getting Night Slash or Sub.

Leftovers is being used by another pokemon and I'm not sure about the whole "cannot have the same held item twice in a party" thing I've heard about. Extra critical would be nice all around, and a Lum Berry would be to prevent Sleep/Paralysis/Burn from ruining my attacking, especially if I went with sub. Substitute would be nice to keep him from being destroyed in a turn by a faster sweeper.

I'm contemplating Baton Passing into Zangoose after starting with Bellysub Smeargle, and giving Zangoose his own sub in case Smeargle goes down before I can Baton Pass out.

Next is ;003; Venusaur@Black Sludge, and I'm totally unsure of what EV's or nature to use. Moveset is:
Sludgebomb
Substitute
Leech Seed
A grass type move, either
Giga Drain 60 power, 100 acc, 10 pp, special, ˝ heal
/Seed Bomb 80 power, 100 acc, 15 pp, physical
/Energy Ball 80 power, 100 acc, 10 pp, special
/Power Whip(Egg) 120 power, 85 acc, 10 pp, physical

I'm trying to get one that can stall out the opponent and heal itself enough to use Sub constantly, while whittling the enemy down with poison or Leech Seed.

All advice is appreciated.

pupintheturd
23rd October 2010, 5:25 PM
Zangoose@Lum berry
Nature:Jolly/Adamant (if you're going with quick attack)
Close Combat
Shadow Claw/Quick attack
Return
Swords Dance

CC and Shadow claw is perfect coverage
Sd for power Return for reliable STAB
your Ev's are the perfect ones
i think you should go with a jolly nature
as it is base 90 speed and if you run adamant
it is going to be outrun by positive base 80's
Quick attack for priority
and with this it would be okay to run a damant nature
Last resort is too unreliable

Venusaur:i dunno

Randomocity
23rd October 2010, 8:25 PM
One thing is that ghost claw and night slash are exactly the same, but dark can hit normal. For fighting, I use Return.

pupintheturd
24th October 2010, 9:16 PM
Well then if you just change to a jolly nature and stay with
CC,night slash,Return and SD you are good to go

Randomocity
24th October 2010, 9:42 PM
Why not Ice Punch? Dragon types can cause a lot of damage, and Salamence and Rayquaza are Dragon/Flying, so double super effectiveness. That, and pesky grass and ground types.

pupintheturd
25th October 2010, 9:13 AM
why ice punch you aren't thinking of using it in OU are you?
(and Rayquaza is an Uber pokemon for tiers go to smogon)
Return is STAB
you will still miss on some damage on the bulky water,grass and grounds
but with a Sd and STAB return you will do plenty damage
you can change it to Ice punch but you will completely lose to vaporeon or milotic
and as they are both common in their respective tiers i don't recomend it
as i said you don't have to worry about dragons only have a good counter to these
if you run ice punch:
Slowbro,Heracross,Milotic,Hariyama,Quagsire,Arcani ne(bulky one)
Return:
Slowbro,Heracross,Milotic,Spiritomb,Nidoqueen,Tang rowth
(especially double powder Tangrowth)
i recomend Mismagius or Alakazam as they kill every one of them but stay in clear of
Arcanine or specially defensive Milotic altough you can kill it with thunderbolt
it can still annoy you
Edit-Spiritomb can be annoying 2
Gl

Randomocity
25th October 2010, 9:58 AM
If I plan on Smeargle bellydrum baton pass, then what would you recommend?

pupintheturd
25th October 2010, 1:06 PM
i don't have alot of experience in baton passing but i recomend something with alot of
power like rampardos who is great (give your smeargle agility !!!!)
don't forget that if you are running something like rampardos baton pass
you have to have a good scizor check as bullet punch will hurt
and something to counter swampert with roar wich will mess up your baton pass

EpicScizor
29th October 2010, 8:09 PM
I'm not sure about this set, its a mixed Electivire sweeper that I'm planning on revolving my new team around.

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Motordrive
40 Atk-252 SpA-216 Spe
Nature: Mild
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice/HP Grass
- Cross Chop
- Flamethrower

OK, this guy is a mixed sweeper. He comes in on a switch. He has a lot of coverage and will hit a lot of things for super effective damage. I'm not completely sure about which Hidden Power I'll put on him. This choice will affect the rest of my team. HP Ice would hit Gliscor. While HP Grass would hit Swampert. Which one should I go with? Suggestions?

pupintheturd
29th October 2010, 8:41 PM
it;s looking good but the coverage can be a little improved

Eartquake
Hp ice
Thunderbolt
Cross chop

great coverage not walled by pink blob
and can just continue bringing havoc to the oponents team
you don't need to confront swampert just have a check or something that will shut it down like Vaporeon can come in if your oponent thinks you are going to switch to
flygon or a bird if you have the luck it carries surf wich isn't common
Rotom forms can do a decent job with wow and keep spamming shadow ball
good Luck

-poop-

cheeselord
30th October 2010, 10:48 PM
Surely a defensive gengar with a sub would wall that electivire as it resists cross chop and eq. then 2/3kos it with shadow ball.

cheeselord
30th October 2010, 10:50 PM
Surely a defensive gengar with a sub would wall that electivire as it resists cross chop and eq. then 2/3kos it with shadow ball.

cheeselord
30th October 2010, 10:50 PM
Sorry for the multiple posts, my computer crashed.

mario_fan
31st October 2010, 3:22 AM
Venusaur
Nature:sassy (+ sp def -speed)
Evs:252 sp def 40 sp atk 212 hp
Item:black sludge
Amnesia
Leech seed
Energy ball/Earthquake/Return
Toxic/substitute

The idea was to make a stall/tank(if it makes sense i'm new at this and i cannot stress that enough). Energy ball is there for STAB while Earthquake could take care of registeel and Return would work better against flying types obviously if i chose EQ or return i would change the Sp atk Evs into Atk evs. Toxic just to take down pokemon with huge defenses Substitute to use leech seed and to amnesia quicker. I didn't use a 252/252/4 set because i wanted more attacking power. This is my first hand-made set so it might not be good i'm open to any suggestions

pupintheturd
31st October 2010, 11:52 AM
it actually looks good but consider this
remove amnessia it doesn't need it it already has base 100 and that's alot
so i would reomend a set like this
Venusaur@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
Ev's 252HP 212SPDEF 40 Spatk
Energy Ball/Leaf storm
Sludge Bomb/Toxic/eartquake
Toxic
Synthesis/Leech seed

Venusaur wow it's that multifunctional?!?!?!?
yes yes it is Energy ball functions as STAB
Sludge bomb for the grass types that like to come in on your grass STAB or leech seed
Toxic for whittling down chansey
and earthquake for registeel while it will also manage to do some reasonable damage to
chansey you could also consider power whip but it has poor type coverage so i wouldn't
recomend that
Leech seed is healing+damage
while synthesis is healing also
you could use Return but the damage output on birds like Altaria or Moltres
won't be very statisfying
remember just cuz it is abase 80 doesn't mean that investing in speed is worthless
cuz in UU there are alot of base 80's and it wouldn't be bad for venusaur to outrun those
or at least have a speed tie
but then again against some it really isn't all that useful so i recomend the above set
example Venusaur vs Altaria
Venusaur/w life orb used sludge bomb
Altaria lost half of it's health
Altaria used DD
Altaria used dragon claw
it fails to KO
Venusaur used Sludge bomb
GG u win

artbomber_97
31st October 2010, 4:17 PM
Ok, so if you want to run a Stalling Venusaur, you can try using this SubSeed set:

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss353/Doggerstiles/venusaur.jpg

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Calm Nature (+SpDef; - Atk)/ 252 HP/ 128 Def/ 112 SpDef/ 16 Spe
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
Ok, Venusaur has nature bulk, with base Defenses of 80/83/100, and with the above EV spread, it became as bulky as possible. And i agree with purpintheturd about the base 80 speed thingy in UU (sometimes I wish Venusaur's base speed was 81, but ...), so I added an extra piece of 16 Speed investment, hoping it can outspeed other 80-speed pokemon. There's nothing much to say about SubSeeding. Switch in on something that afraids of Venusaur, throw a Sub when the foe run away in fear, then setup Leech Seed. The coolest thing about using Venusaur as a SubSeeder is that it doesn't afraid of other Grass-types (which normally walls SubSeeders), as it carries an ultimate STAB Poison move called Sludge Bomb. With 90 Base Power, and even boosted more with STAB, it can tears any Grass-type in UU (Sceptile and Tangrowth) even without any SpAtk investments.

pupintheturd
31st October 2010, 5:11 PM
alright firstly @ Cheeselord touche but you'd still have thunderbolt

alright can anyone help me with this:

Altaria
Nature:Careful
Ev's 252Hp 16Atk 64Spe 176Spdef
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Roost
Substitute

yeah not so original just a smogon set with substitute over heal bell cuz in my opinion
it has payed off more and /w heal belll i got easily killed by milotic that ran toxic and ice beam
and it blocks some important crits against milotic and alakazam
the meaning of this set is to sweep late game and set-up a few DD's to do so
but this set is easily walled so i need something to kill those pokemon
i need to counter pokemon like:Registeel Weezing DDFeraligatr Azumarril Milotic
and to a lesser extent Venusaur Clefable Slowbro regirock Regice Hariyama
does anyone know what pokemon would work against these pokemon
and what set i would have to run

everyone's suggestions and toughts are appreciated

Beastiken9
31st October 2010, 6:29 PM
How about this:
FLAREON@charcoal
atk+ nature 252atk/252spd
fire fang
sunny day
overheat
quick attack
my plan is to start with leafeon and set up sunny day. Then i switch 2 flareon 2 take the fire attack. With charcoal and sunny day and flash fire and STAB, fire fang should kill.

pupintheturd
31st October 2010, 6:49 PM
Flareon is too slow and Arcanine outclasses this set and can do precisely the same
go for arcanine or if you just like Flareon go with a more defensive set as that is the farthest it will go with it's stat's

Eaglehawk
31st October 2010, 8:50 PM
alright firstly @ Cheeselord touche but you'd still have thunderbolt

alright can anyone help me with this:

Altaria
Nature:Careful
Ev's 252Hp 16Atk 64Spe 176Spdef
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Roost
Substitute

yeah not so original just a smogon set with substitute over heal bell cuz in my opinion
it has payed off more and /w heal belll i got easily killed by milotic that ran toxic and ice beam
and it blocks some important crits against milotic and alakazam
the meaning of this set is to sweep late game and set-up a few DD's to do so
but this set is easily walled so i need something to kill those pokemon
i need to counter pokemon like:Registeel Weezing DDFeraligatr Azumarril Milotic
and to a lesser extent Venusaur Clefable Slowbro regirock Regice Hariyama
does anyone know what pokemon would work against these pokemon
and what set i would have to run

everyone's suggestions and toughts are appreciated

Yeah. It's okay, but honestly, it's kinda meh. I find Restalk versions more useful in some situations. You also might want to invest more into Defense because of Heracross running around with Swords Dances and Flame Orbs and whatnot. Plus, if you're running a bulkier set, don't invest into speed unless you have Leftover EVs

Beastiken9
1st November 2010, 1:51 AM
UMBREON @leftovers
synchronize
def+ nature
252def 252 sp def
attract
sub
confuse ray
shadow ball

Umbreon here is to annoy the heck out of everybody. With a substitute up he can spam attract and confuse ray and start hitting with shadow ball. Yes..... I AM A NOOB.... I KNOW NOTHING!!!

artbomber_97
1st November 2010, 9:39 AM
alright firstly @ Cheeselord touche but you'd still have thunderbolt

alright can anyone help me with this:

Altaria
Nature:Careful
Ev's 252Hp 16Atk 64Spe 176Spdef
Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Roost
Substitute

yeah not so original just a smogon set with substitute over heal bell cuz in my opinion
it has payed off more and /w heal belll i got easily killed by milotic that ran toxic and ice beam
and it blocks some important crits against milotic and alakazam
the meaning of this set is to sweep late game and set-up a few DD's to do so
but this set is easily walled so i need something to kill those pokemon
i need to counter pokemon like:Registeel Weezing DDFeraligatr Azumarril Milotic
and to a lesser extent Venusaur Clefable Slowbro regirock Regice Hariyama
does anyone know what pokemon would work against these pokemon
and what set i would have to run

everyone's suggestions and toughts are appreciated

Ok, this set is generally good, Sub is a good choice but you can also use Heal Bell for team support. For those counters, I suggest using the Stallbreaker Mismagius set :
Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
252 HP/ 80 SAtk/ 172 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split
- Taunt
Missy has excellent speed and carries Taunt, which is always a great thing. The EV spread above is enough to outspeed everything in UU, but if you want even more speed, you can go max out the Speed, however if you do so, Shadow Ball will lose power. However, I can see that Azumarill is still a big problem, so if you still have enough space in your team, you can add a bulky Water, like Milotic or Slowbro to counter it. But it should also be noted that this set will also wall YOUR Altaria as well, since Missy can outspeed and throw a Taunt at you, which renders your Altaria useless; so be careful. Good Luck.


Yeah. It's okay, but honestly, it's kinda meh. I find Restalk versions more useful in some situations. You also might want to invest more into Defense because of Heracross running around with Swords Dances and Flame Orbs and whatnot. Plus, if you're running a bulkier set, don't invest into speed unless you have Leftover EVs

Ok, there's a clearly reason why he added the extra Speed investment, that is because nearly everything in UU have 80 Base Speed (which equal to Altaria's, in case you don't know about that), so 64 EV Speed would do its trick quite well. And Heracross wouldn't be a so big problem, if you have Weezing as your teammate.

pupintheturd
1st November 2010, 4:46 PM
alright thanks artbomber i think i'll run max speed cuz i want to outspeed pokemon
like drapion and raichu who might carry super effective moves to my altaria
and i don't run heal bell cuz i don't feel like transferrring everything to my platinum
and substitute has worked better for me on shoddy against pokemon like milotic
Venusaur and Ninetales

@eaglehawk thanks for the advice but after 1 DD it outruns every 95+ natured poke with 64 ev's investment
i don't run rest talk as one:i don't have acces to move tutor and even if i did
i don't trust the set and secondly i think donhpan would kill it more easily
this set is designed for late game sweeping so i would have to make sure to remove it first (heracross)

thanks for all your sugestions i'll start working on mismagius

@Beastiken easy dude you at least got down how to use a pokemon like Umbreon
it's better at stalling but then it would get outclassed by Vaporeon with superior
hp and defensive typing
i have made a set below
Umbreon@leftovers
Nature Calm/Careful
Ev's 252Hp 200def 56spdef
Mean look
baton pass
wish/moonlight
yawn

it's funny yawn+mean look just a set that works for fun and mean look baton passing is
easy and good support for pokemon like dd gyarados

Gyarados@leftovers
Naughty

Dragon dance
Waterfall
Return
Fire blast/taunt/sustitute

Fire blast for Scizor it would be funny and awesome when the scizor is trapped
and choiced into bug bite hehehe.. free gyarados set-up=gg

Beastiken9
1st November 2010, 11:12 PM
Thanx pupintheturd this is my original, nooby blaziken.
Blaziken@choicescarf
overheat
sky uppercut
blaze kick
rock climb
ability: blaze 0evs

ok this blaziken was an in-game sweeper. Now I think I am demoting him to help me set up flash fire boosts by choice scarfing blaze kick. I would then switch out, come back in and scarf sky uppercut. My guy has sky uppercut and not close combat cause i migrated at lv 100 and sky uppercut almost always gives a 2HKO. Please rate this and suggest a sweeping Blaziken set.

#TWERKTEAM
1st November 2010, 11:30 PM
Gyarados@leftovers
Naughty

Dragon dance
Waterfall
Return
Fire blast/taunt/sustitute

Fire blast for Scizor it would be funny and awesome when the scizor is trapped
and choiced into bug bite hehehe.. free gyarados set-up=gg



Gyarados is one of the best Scizor counters in the game and doesn't need Fire Blast to get rid of it. Most Choiced Scizor's run U-Turn and not Bug Bite as Bug Bite is better for the SD set. Gyarados also needs Adamant and not Naughty so it can set up on a larger variety of pokes.

artbomber_97
2nd November 2010, 9:08 AM
Dude, don't take it so seriously, he's just fooling around man. lol.

pupintheturd
2nd November 2010, 5:27 PM
dude you are right
but plz cut me some slack here he wanted his Umbreon rated altough that
doesn't give me an excuse to give faulty advice but really i was just thinking a bit more about the Umbreon and i didn't think it would be that big of a deal to you
and also cuz i have more UU experience

Your Blaziken set doesn't look bad
you need to breed for ev training
and remove moves like rock climb
choice scarf to not be outclassed by infernape is actually a pretty good idea
consider using moves like Flare Blitz Superpower Thunderpunch Stone edge
or go mixed with moves like Vacuum wave Flare BLitz Hidden power ice/Electric/grass
Thunderpunch Eartquake Stone edge

artbomber_97
3rd November 2010, 8:45 AM
Hey guys, recently I have discovered a great set for Metagross in OU:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x220/frankzo/376.gif
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk; - SAtk)
- Trick
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
This is a gimmicky, but good set. Most people seeing a Metagross will sure that it was carrying an Agility set, or holding something like Lum Berry or Occa Berry. This set takes that advantage as the element of suprise. This Metagross' main purpose is to eliminate some of its top counter, like Skarmory, Hippowdon, and most notably Rotom-A. After Metagross killed one of the enemy's pokemon, it's counter will switch-in. Almost 100% sure that you have nothing to combat with, they will throw something like Will-o-wisp or Roar at you, and that's when you Trick them with your Choice Scarf, rendering that counter useless for the rest of the game. (Skarmory holding Scarf, should be interesting)

pupintheturd
3rd November 2010, 4:35 PM
a few stupid questions:

shouldn't you put on Choice scarf?

and you can't switch attacks with choice items right?
so how to get a scarf on a counter after he has killed one pokemon?
like on the switch?

artbomber_97
4th November 2010, 6:44 AM
Ah yes I put the wrong iteam lmao. And ah yeah, nevermind that stupid sentence of mine. (Man, something is seriously wrong with my head today lol.)

proto96
6th November 2010, 3:50 AM
can someone rate a garchomp set I recently found.
garchomp@white herb
modest nature
252sp.a, 252 spd, 4hp
-flamethrower
-draco meteor(reason for white herb)
-surf
-earth power

yes i do know garchomp is mainly a physical attacker but this set has worked very well in any battle frontier place, in-game, and competitive.

artbomber_97
6th November 2010, 9:25 AM
This set is good, but with base 80 SpAtk stat, Special Garchomp isn't very something admirable in Uber enviroment, where everything is just like, with crazy stats over 100 Base. This move set is completely walled by Blissey. She will roll on the floor laughing when seeing those pitiful special moves. Sure it can suprise the opponent at first, but suprise doesn't mean its hard to deal with.

pupintheturd
6th November 2010, 10:33 AM
while seemingly okay and great coverage to boast it really isn;t that threatening with his special atk it might work as surprise factor with a pokemon to remove blissey but you will
still fail to 0hko pokemon like Lugia and Ho-OH

Chetz
7th November 2010, 9:11 PM
Hi, i'm still really inexperienced in competitive so if it seems like i know nothing about competitive battling, please note that it's true. I'd like for a charizard to be rated.

Charizard @ Salac Berry
- Belly Drum
- Roost
- Fire Fang
- Outrage/ Dragon Claw
Jolly nature (+speed, -sp atk)
252 Speed/ 126 Def/ 126 sp. Def/ 4 HP

I plan to use this charizard for my main physical sweeper. I would like to use it as my first pokemon, and start off with belly drum. I invested EV's in the defence stats so it can try to withstand the first attack of the opponent. With maxed out attack, the only thing that might prevent me from sweeping is speed, hence the salac berry. Once the speed is up, i'd like to start sweeping. Only thing stopping me is Heatran. Its not a fullproof plan but it worked for some of my battles, catching the opponents off guard. I'm not too sure about outrage, because it only allows me to use that move for a few turns, while dragon claw is less powerful but doesn't have the outrage effect. I put in roost to be on the safe side. How would this pokemon do in both standard and underused tiers? Thanks for the help in advance.:)

artbomber_97
8th November 2010, 6:52 AM
Ok, Charizard is a good pokemon, and I like him. You would want to go for some Atk EVs, since this set's purpose is to lower your HP as much as possible to active Blaze and Salac Berry, you won't need those defensive EVs nor that Roost. Fire Punch is a better move than Fire Fang, because its more reliable and powerful. Dragon Claw is better than Outrage, since Outrage = an open for revenge kill. Also, if you are playing Charizard, you would need a serious Spinner because SR is very dangerous to Zard. SpinTop or Donphan can work fine. Hope that helped you.

Chetz
8th November 2010, 2:36 PM
Ok thanks for that. Yeah i dunno why i didn't think of fire punch instead. I will use dragon claw instead of outrage too. Now when you say i shouldn't consider roost, what other move should i fill it with? Thunderpunch or earthquake? Earthquake would get rid of heatran quickly. Lucario too, unless its got extremespeed?

artbomber_97
8th November 2010, 3:07 PM
The last move depends on what your team needs to cover. It's up to you. Glad I could help.

pupintheturd
8th November 2010, 3:58 PM
tad bit late but i think you can consider to place substitute on it
cause it will prove to be far easier to activatee the berry and blaze
like this

Charizard vs. Venusaur
Venusaur switched out
Charizard used sub
Altaria got sent in
Charizard used belly drum
salac berry and blaze= activate
Charizard used Own it's super effective

just switch it in on something it can easily force out and set-up a sub followed by belly drum and enjoy the coverage of dragon and fire
this set will have a lot of trouble with azumarrill(aqua jet) so i recomend you pack something to spin and take care of priority users

Darkfall
8th November 2010, 7:44 PM
tad bit late but i think you can consider to place substitute on it
cause it will prove to be far easier to activatee the berry and blaze
like this

Charizard vs. Venusaur
Venusaur switched out
Charizard used sub
Altaria got sent in
Charizard used belly drum
salac berry and blaze= activate
Charizard used Own it's super effective

just switch it in on something it can easily force out and set-up a sub followed by belly drum and enjoy the coverage of dragon and fire
this set will have a lot of trouble with azumarrill(aqua jet) so i recomend you pack something to spin and take care of priority users

And so by that:

Charizard used Sub (Minus 1/4)
Charizard used Belly Drum (Minus 1/2)
Charizard now sweeps with Fire/Dragon as it's attacking options?

Even WITH those defensive EVs, Charizard isn't living long. And that's IF it has Spin support. Taking off 3/4s of your health with no healing and a weak Sub is NOT a healthy move. Especially on something with a 4X Weakness to rock and common weaknesses to Water/Electric.

IF you're using this set:

Max attack, Max Speed, 4 Def.

Sub
Belly Drum
Fire Punch
Earthquake (Rock types wall you otherwise.) OR ThunderPunch.

Azumarill is UU anyway, so that won't be a problem, it's Slowbro and Milotic you want to watch out for. Hariyama too, as his Thick Fat and nice bulk keeps him able to smash your Subs and then beat you down.

mario_fan
9th November 2010, 2:19 AM
I was shocked to see that my venusaur was pretty good so now ill try another

cloyster
Focus band
Impish (+def -sp atk)
252 def/200 atk/ 52 hp
Ice shard
toxic spikes/spikes/toxic
rock blast/avalanche
explosion

Its supposed to be an offensive lead (although if it has toxic i don't know what to call it) Focus band due to its fragile sp def and i can't be too careful. 252 defense because i want it to take hits. I used 52 hp because i wanted to let it get some hp ( I don't like using 252/252/4 sets they seem.....bland but if i have to use them fine) Ice shard because it is one of the few good STAB moves for cloyster and guarantees a first strike. spikes for whittling down life of steel types that will cause a problem toxic spikes because its faster to set up and takes more damage depending how you use it toxic is used because it quick and straight to the point but inaccurate. If i use rock blast the ability must be skill link (25*5=125!) and if i use avalanche speed must be lowest possible but i am quite hesitant to use this because i once heard that its not good to have 2 of the same types of moves on a pokemon. explosion will be used when i am in a pinch and his spikes or status afflictions have all been set up.

Eaglehawk
9th November 2010, 4:37 AM
I was shocked to see that my venusaur was pretty good so now ill try another

cloyster
Focus band
Impish (+def -sp atk)
252 def/200 atk/ 52 hp
Ice shard
toxic spikes/spikes/toxic
rock blast/avalanche
explosion

Its supposed to be an offensive lead (although if it has toxic i don't know what to call it) Focus band due to its fragile sp def and i can't be too careful. 252 defense because i want it to take hits. I used 52 hp because i wanted to let it get some hp ( I don't like using 252/252/4 sets they seem.....bland but if i have to use them fine) Ice shard because it is one of the few good STAB moves for cloyster and guarantees a first strike. spikes for whittling down life of steel types that will cause a problem toxic spikes because its faster to set up and takes more damage depending how you use it toxic is used because it quick and straight to the point but inaccurate. If i use rock blast the ability must be skill link (25*5=125!) and if i use avalanche speed must be lowest possible but i am quite hesitant to use this because i once heard that its not good to have 2 of the same types of moves on a pokemon. explosion will be used when i am in a pinch and his spikes or status afflictions have all been set up.
I would like to point out some very few things about this set.

One is that I hope you meant Focus Sash when you said Focus Band.

One thing you have to redo is his EVs. Cloyster already has a whopping defensive stat, so all it needs is a Def+ Nature and it's good to go. However, its Base 50 HP isn't going to take him far, and 52 EVs are not going to work. You might as well blow out 252 HP EVs on the spot. You also might want to take the Attack EVs off the table first, since Cloyster's buisness is to set up entry hazards not Anti-Leading. Now, to be a successful lead, you have to either A) Have Decent speed or B) Have Decent Defenses. Now looking at Cloyster, his Special Defense sucks, so you might as well invest a logical amount into his EV. The reason is that you don't want to run overkill EVs, but instead, run the ones that will guaranteed you to survive something so you can get Spikes down. The Leftover EVs can go either into Speed though I can't recall what it outspeeds that is important, or it can go into Attack, for a more powerful Explosion.

On the moves, there are some general comments I would like to make. Considering this is a lead, it technically sets up entry hazards, so Toxic is out of the question. Then take out Toxic Spikes. Why? UU is home to a plethora of Poison-types that can absorb the Toxic Spikes and remove it from the field. Therefore, Spikes is the only safe option. Rock Blast's previous use was for deterring Froslass as a lead, and now serves little purpose but is still viable, considering it can break Sashes and finish the opponent off with an Ice Shard. Avalanche isn't really the best choice, since it's Base power fluctuates greatly, leaving it to be not as stable. If you want a good STAB, you might as well run Surf, though Rock Blast is better.

Basically, as a general overview, neither your set, nor my suggestions, is an offensive lead, mainly because it lacks Life Orb.

Eaglehawk
9th November 2010, 4:37 AM
I was shocked to see that my venusaur was pretty good so now ill try another

cloyster
Focus band
Impish (+def -sp atk)
252 def/200 atk/ 52 hp
Ice shard
toxic spikes/spikes/toxic
rock blast/avalanche
explosion

Its supposed to be an offensive lead (although if it has toxic i don't know what to call it) Focus band due to its fragile sp def and i can't be too careful. 252 defense because i want it to take hits. I used 52 hp because i wanted to let it get some hp ( I don't like using 252/252/4 sets they seem.....bland but if i have to use them fine) Ice shard because it is one of the few good STAB moves for cloyster and guarantees a first strike. spikes for whittling down life of steel types that will cause a problem toxic spikes because its faster to set up and takes more damage depending how you use it toxic is used because it quick and straight to the point but inaccurate. If i use rock blast the ability must be skill link (25*5=125!) and if i use avalanche speed must be lowest possible but i am quite hesitant to use this because i once heard that its not good to have 2 of the same types of moves on a pokemon. explosion will be used when i am in a pinch and his spikes or status afflictions have all been set up.
I would like to point out some very few things about this set.

One is that I hope you meant Focus Sash when you said Focus Band.

One thing you have to redo is his EVs. Cloyster already has a whopping defensive stat, so all it needs is a Def+ Nature and it's good to go. However, its Base 50 HP isn't going to take him far, and 52 EVs are not going to work. You might as well blow out 252 HP EVs on the spot. You also might want to take the Attack EVs off the table first, since Cloyster's buisness is to set up entry hazards not Anti-Leading. Now, to be a successful lead, you have to either A) Have Decent speed or B) Have Decent Defenses. Now looking at Cloyster, his Special Defense sucks, so you might as well invest a logical amount into his EV. The reason is that you don't want to run overkill EVs, but instead, run the ones that will guaranteed you to survive something so you can get Spikes down. The Leftover EVs can go either into Speed though I can't recall what it outspeeds that is important, or it can go into Attack, for a more powerful Explosion.

On the moves, there are some general comments I would like to make. Considering this is a lead, it technically sets up entry hazards, so Toxic is out of the question. Then take out Toxic Spikes. Why? UU is home to a plethora of Poison-types that can absorb the Toxic Spikes and remove it from the field. Therefore, Spikes is the only safe option. Rock Blast's previous use was for deterring Froslass as a lead, and now serves little purpose but is still viable, considering it can break Sashes and finish the opponent off with an Ice Shard. Avalanche isn't really the best choice, since it's Base power fluctuates greatly, leaving it to be not as stable. If you want a good STAB, you might as well run Surf, though Rock Blast is better.

Basically, as a general overview, neither your set, nor my suggestions, is an offensive lead, mainly because it lacks Life Orb.

mario_fan
9th November 2010, 5:37 AM
I would like to point out some very few things about this set.

One is that I hope you meant Focus Sash when you said Focus Band.
Yes focus sash! i get similar names like that confused

Now looking at Cloyster, his Special Defense sucks, so you might as well invest a logical amount into his EV.
This will be a problem I'm not good with were to apply EVs and how much of them I invest. I usually invest them in the highest stats.


Thanks! replies in bold

my revised cloyster

Cloyster@ Custap berry
Impish (+def -Sp atk)
252 hp/? sp def/? spd
Ice shard
Spikes
rock blast
explosion

I've now narrowed it down somewhat. I figured i'd invest in speed becuase i thought it would be better to quickly set spikes and then attack. I have also gotten rid of focus sash because its effect wont activate if he has "okay" defenses. I have added custap so when my hp is low i can quickly use explosion to severely damage the opponent before they finish me off. So far the only things I need help with is the rest of the EV placement.I was thinking some speed evs to help me out run other slow pokemon like blastoise and the rest used in special defence to withstand some special attacks

artbomber_97
9th November 2010, 8:18 AM
Ummm, Focus Band? In case you are unaware, Focus Band is one of those items that they call "hax item". You can go for Focus Sash instead.

5th Gen Beast
11th November 2010, 4:17 AM
I'm REALLY new at competitive play, so I apologize right out front for how stupid I might look.

Deoxys (speed form) @ ???
Hasty Nature (+spd , -def)
252 spd/128 atk/128 sp atk
Spikes
Zap Cannon
Iron Defense
Psycho Boost


When I got this Deoxys and found out the nature, I was upset. I couldn't use attack for at all, because the defense stat would be even lower, and Defense Form wouldn't be as effective. I let it sit for a few months, and now I want to see if a Speed for Deoxys would work. My idea was to maximize speed for optimized hit priority, and to raise the attack and sp. attack stats for damage. Deoxys could use iron defense to stay alive longer, and spikes would allow for passive damage.

Please tell me what you guys think of my first idea at a competitive battler before I go at this set foolhardily.

Beastiken9
12th November 2010, 1:03 AM
Just make it attack form. Give it a focus sash so it has two turns. Just give it enough speed evs to outspeed the opposition.
Run
deoxys (attack)
hasty
200spd 252sp atk 56hp (or a variant)
psychic (better accuracy than psycho boost)
shadow ball
spikes
calm mind
run something like this. Deoxys has enormous speed anyways, so speed form is almost pointless.

5th Gen Beast
12th November 2010, 9:07 PM
Thanks Beastiken9. This really helped. As soon as NaNoWrimo month is over I'll start working on this set (or in any free time I have).

Blue Harvest
12th November 2010, 10:08 PM
No lol, don't use that set.

In 4th gen Deoxys is banned from most tiers due to it being so powerful. If you want to use Deoxys you can still use him in Ubers. Use this set if you want an offensive Deoxys.

Deoxys @ Life Orb
Hasty
252 Speed / 252 Special Attack / 4 Attack

Psycho Boost
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Superpower

It hits like a nuke. Nothing in the game can switch in on this, except some forms of Arceus.

ParaChomp
12th November 2010, 11:07 PM
Deoxys (attack)
Life Orb/Focus Sash
Hasty/Naive nature
252 Speed/252 Special Attack/4 Attack
Extremespeed
Psycho Boost
Superpower
Shadow Ball

mario_fan
13th November 2010, 3:06 AM
Okay I read an article on smogon that helped me with EV placement so here is my rerevamped cloyster

Cloyster@Custap berry
Skill Link
Impish (+def -Sp Atk)
252 Hp/ 68 speed/ 190 spdef
Ice Shard
Spikes
Explosion
Rock blast

252 hp because having more EVs in hp is better than more EVs in def in cloysters case because with that amount of EVs its 10% better at taking hits. 68 Evs in speed so it can out run defensive pokemon like blastoise. 200 Sp Def because it really needs as much special defense as it can get. The attacks are still the same Ice Shard for quick STAB attacks spikes to chip health away Rock blast is for pokemon who have low defense it would be stronger than ice shard 25*5=125. ( i have a weird feeling thats not how the real base power is calculated) The Custap is their for explosion so when i'm in a pinch i go first and explode! So how is it? I'm open to all suggestions.
Edit: seeing as i have Ice Shard and Custap berry i'm thinking of changing the speed EVs.

pupintheturd
13th November 2010, 7:31 PM
that is one fine Cloyster RIGHT THERE
don't change your Speed just remove your berry and change it to Leftovers or Focus sash
or don't cuz BOOMing is fun
it's good this way use it as a lead and come back to BOOM (if it survived)
i recomend to pack counters for common leads that can abuse the slowness and/or special weakness of Cloyster like Alakazam Hariyama(bullet punch/Close Combat) Ambipom and more
it looks good

GoodLuck i guess?
-poop-

cheeselord
14th November 2010, 6:02 PM
I'm thinking of having a priority sweeper on my team and so far I have narrowed it down to two options, the first one is:

Lucario @ focus sash
inner focus (no fake out)
lonely nature (+atk -def)
252 atk 252 spatk 4 spd/hp
~extremespeed
~bullet punch
~vacuum wave
~swords dance

First I will swords dance and probably be brought down to 1hp (focus sash) due to abysmal defensive stats and then attack with bullet punch for stab/coverage extremespeed for power and vacuum wave for steel coverage (so I am not completely walled by skamory).

My second option is:

hitmontop @ life orb/ leftovers
technician
adamant nature (+atk -spatk)
252 atk 252 hp 4spd
~bulk up
~mack punch
~sucker punch
~? (possibly sttone edge for flying types)

This is the more bulky option as it has good physical defence after a few bulk ups and maybe leftovers. Mach punch with stab and technician is great and sucker punch gets an easy OHKO on some good counters such as alakazam and gengar, bulk up is for more atk & def and the last move slot is open (if only he could learn ice shard...).

please rate, cheeselord

GarSlizer
19th November 2010, 5:58 AM
I know Ubers are not liked too much..., but I have a pair that I'm a bit conflicted about and need a hand with, thier for 2v2 btw:

Deoxys (Attack)@Focus Sash
Naive Nature
EVs: 4atk 252satk 252spe
Stealth Rock
Signal Beam
Extreemspeed
Grass Knot

Darkrai@Life Orb/Chople Berry
Timid Nature
EVs: 4hp 252satk 252spe
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast
Dark Void
Nasty Plot

I saw the Deoxys set on Smogon and it was everything I needed on my team, entry hazard support or a near OHKO on Kyogre (primarily to shut down Water Spout) as well as a wrecker of Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Deoxys (attack or speed). Darkrai is designed as a supporter-sweeper, by that I mean he uses Dark VOid to help himself and the rest of the team by immobilizing a problematic opponent and making it easier for him or and ally to set up. He used to use a focus sash, but now I'm rethinking that b/c the only thing he had to endure with it was a ScarfKyogre Water Spout, but Deoxys has the anti-Kyogre role so I'm wondering if he should still have a Sash or get a Life Orb for more power, or even get a Chople berry to deal with fighting attacks during Hail or Sandstorms.

cheeselord
20th November 2010, 12:12 AM
Isn't this the thread for rating normal 1v1 pokemon, not 2v2, i'm sure there's another thread for that.

GarSlizer
20th November 2010, 5:17 AM
/\ no there is not, but I've found a solutioon to that problem on my own. Why does everyone hate 2v2? (no offense)

cheeselord
20th November 2010, 3:48 PM
I'm not sure why everyone hates 2v2, I used to like it myself but I could never get a game or any one to rate my team so I moved to 1v1.
I still do it sometimes at the battle tower for fun and I'm glad that in B&W there's a 2v2 'boss' in the battle subway.

ArcanineShrine014029
20th November 2010, 10:17 PM
I've finally come up with a team I like. I put some "limitations" on this one, like only one starter, one eeveelution (because I tend to use those a lot), no more Salamence (because he's an uber now) and not having it FULL of OU's, if that's true for this team.

-Torterra@Big Root
Nature: Impish
EV's: 74 HP, 184 Attack, 252 Defense
Wood Hammer
EarthQuake
Stone Edge
Leech Seed

Torterra is my physical tank. Whilst dealing heavy hits with Earthquake and Stone Edge, he will still take some damage from Wood Hammer, which is why I brought a long leech seed. Combined with the big root (and not leftovers, I'll show why on one of my next Pokemon), he will still gain a decent portion of his HP back. Stone Edge is for coverage against fire, flying, and ice types, which Torterra is for sure worried about when it comes to facing the likes of Weavile and such. Even if Weavile managed an ice punch, Torterra's defenses might pull through, since I've maxed them out with the EV's and nature.

-Milotic@Wide Lens
Nature: Calm
EV's: 52 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 204 Sp.Def
Surf
Ice Beam,
Hypnosis,
Recover

Next up is my special tank. Milotic, rather than Gyarados, was chosen for his lack of weaknesses, and his ability to use hypnosis, and recover. Which makes him even more of a special tank. To compensate for hypnosis's accuracy, I've equipped him with the wide lens, which is just about the only item I could care about for him. Ice beam is selected for the likes of ground and grass enemies that could threaten him heavily. Surf, obviously for STAB.

-Umbreon@Leftovers
Nature: Impish
EV's: 4 HP, 252 Defense, 252 Sp.Def
Double Team
Payback
Confuse Ray
Toxic

Umbreon is the all-around wall. I thought about giving him moonlight instead of double team (and hey, I've used one like it for a while), but moonlight doesn't do so good under the weather, so to speak. Plus, the brightpowder I had with my previous setup only worked some of the time, when I can use double team enough times to more than make up for it. Plus, the leftovers will still give him a good dosage of healing when needed with double team. Toxic is added to make him an official toxic stall, as will confuse ray, which will make my opponent have an even harder time hitting him after I've set up double team.

-Gengar@Chpice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EV's:252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed
Shadow Ball
ThunderBolt
Energy Ball
Focus Blast

Gengar is my special sweeper. Not much to explain here... shadow ball for STAB, which I think will have the same power as focus blast, only with 100% accuracy. Thunderbolt for bulky waters, and especially Gyarados and Skarmory. Energy ball will go toward Swampert, since so many teams practically build sets to go against it. Focus blast will help contribute the defeat of steel, rock, AND dark types my team could potentially worry about. So all around, with his speed and power, he's there to do simple KO-ing when my other Pokemon can't. I picked the choice scarf for ensuring total power for his attacks, and if I need to use a different move, I can just switch. I thought about black sludge, but that wouldn't matter to me as much since he's a sweeper.

-Arcanine@Focus Sash
Nature:Jolly
EV's: 252 Attack, 4 Defense, 252 Speed
Flare Blitz
Reversal
Thunder Fang
Iron Head

Okay, I could have gone with Infernape. Why not? He's all around a better Pokemon. But Infernape would give another psychic weakness to go with Gengar's, and if I'm going against alakazam (who can totally rip apart even my umbreon with Focus blast) , I don't need that. So, Arcanine is the endurer. With the focus sash, reversal's usefulness is remarkable, since Arcanine's defenses are only average. I think I'll go with flash fire, to make sure that reversal gets it's full power in case intimidate prevents my opponent from forcing the use of the focus sash. Besides, with flash fire, I can switch out and give flare blitz even greater strength when torterra or my next party member are in danger of a flamethrower, or flare blitz, or the like. Thunder Fang and Iron head are there for weakness coverage, thunder fang for water, and iron head for rock.

-Bronzong@Choice Scarf
Nature: Relaxed
EV's: 4 HP, 252 Defense, 252 Sp.Defense
Trick
Stealth Rock
Gyro Ball
Swagger

Now bronzong, I have a good feeling about. I would have picked metagross, but Bronzong's defenses are equally distributed, not having 130 in one, and 90 in the other. But if you can find a better set up that can still fit with my team that metagross can use, then let me know. Anyways, I've picked a nasty choice trick strategy to start off the battle. Because of swagger, it can work even better if my opponent is using physical moves. To make sure I'm safe if the confusion doesn't work (it probably won't all the time), I've given Bronzong a relaxed nature, to take physically powered hits from swagger more effectively. As Bronzong's part as an annoyer, I've given him the addition of stealth rock, which will be good against the likes of charizard, weavile, you name it, when I can't defeat them with gyro ball. For gyro ball, the relaxed nature increases damage output, since the damage output is based on a speed difference. Which I'm confident will give Aerodactyl a run for it's money.

There you go. My new team I came up with. I've only trained the umbreon, and Gengar so far, so I've got a lot of IV breeding to do to get the other four Pokemon. -_- But I've avoided using tendencies I've had in making teams of the past, like using all three starters of a region, multiple eeveelutions, and ubers. But I still have a water, fire, and grass type like I always do. :D

jesusfreak94
21st November 2010, 12:55 AM
^Hey, I like your sig. ;)

You should actually make a new thread for this, since it's a whole team. Once you do, then I'll come by when I can and give you a rate, but I'm pretty busy right now. Good luck!

cheeselord
21st November 2010, 5:15 PM
I agree with Jesusfreak94 above (about making a new thread) but I’ll help you with the obvious things that i can see straight away. I would change milotic to a restalk set (because of marvel scale) by replacing recover and hypnosis with rest and sleep talk; this also means you can have leftovers instead of wide lens. Regarding umbreon I would change double team to curse and change the EV spread because with a spdef boosting nature and it's awesome base stat it doesn't need as many EVs so you could put some into HP, I would go 252 hp, 156 def & 100 spdef because with curse it's defence becomes immense as well. Gengar needs destiny bond instead of energy ball so it's pretty much guaranteed one more KO than it could normally have and I would consider life orb or wise glasses over choice scarf because it's speed is already pretty epic (with jolly instead of modest). The only other thing I would do is to change flare blitz on arcanine for some other fire move because if you have been reduced to 1hp from your sash you don't want to KO yourself with recoil or not be able to use a STAB move that may be super effective on whatever you are fighting.

xMetagrossx
22nd November 2010, 10:53 PM
k so i just RNG abused a Shiny Bronzor with perfect Ivs and heres what im thinking.
;437;
Bronzong@Leftovers
Relaxed-252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
~EQ
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Toxic

This is a slight modification to the smogon set. Im trying to set up Toxic and Dual Screens. The EVs are to 1HKO Heatran and Magnezone who will switch out if left alive the first turn. Toxic is my stall move and EQ is just to hit other steels and deal some surprising damage.

cheeselord
24th November 2010, 11:34 PM
Are you intending to use this as a lead? If so I would run gyro ball over earthquake as it does more damage and will not be resisted by common leads such as aerodactyl and azelf, also I would put the speed EVs into one of the defense stats (so gyro ball has more power) and change toxic or one of the screens for stealth rock but, after all, I'm no expert.

Oh and can some one please rate my lucario and hitmontop above.

cheeselord
24th November 2010, 11:37 PM
Are you intending to use this as a lead? If so I would run gyro ball over earthquake as it does more damage and will not be resisted by common leads such as aerodactyl and azelf, also I would put the speed EVs into one of the defense stats (so gyro ball has more power) and change toxic or one of the screens for stealth rock but, after all, I'm no expert.

Oh and can some one please rate my lucario and hitmontop above.

calze6
27th November 2010, 10:45 AM
I've just got an interesting set I've thought of (may need some tweaking).

Tentacruel@Focus sash/lum berry/lefties
Timid
252Spd/252HP/4Def
Payback
Rapid spin
Ice beam
Toxic spikes

Since it has a surprisingly fast 100 base speed, it can get 2 layers vs tyranitar, kyogre, groudon and dialga. It can just spam payback and rapid spin on deo and can stall forry. Ice beam can kill rayquaza as well and is used as a filler. It is designed as a fast suicide lead. Being faster than qwilfish really helps as well as the ability to spin. It can also absorb toxic spikes and will get two layers on base 90s unlike forry. Thoughts?

calze6
27th November 2010, 10:50 AM
I've just got an interesting set I've thought of (may need some tweaking).

Tentacruel@Focus sash/lum berry/lefties
Timid
252Spd/252HP/4Def
Payback
Rapid spin
Ice beam
Toxic spikes

Since it has a surprisingly fast 100 base speed, it can get 2 layers vs tyranitar, kyogre, groudon and dialga. It can just spam payback and rapid spin on deo and can stall forry. Ice beam can kill rayquaza as well and is used as a filler. It is designed as a fast suicide lead. Being faster than qwilfish really helps as well as the ability to spin. It can also absorb toxic spikes and will get two layers on base 90s unlike forry. Thoughts?

cheeselord
27th November 2010, 7:43 PM
That tentacruel sounds good, I would definatley use focus sash, though, so you are can set up two layers of toxic spikes most of the time.

randomspot555
27th November 2010, 10:07 PM
I've just got an interesting set I've thought of (may need some tweaking).

Tentacruel@Focus sash/lum berry/lefties
Timid
252Spd/252HP/4Def
Payback
Rapid spin
Ice beam
Toxic spikes

STAB Surf is going to serve yu better than Payback. Timid means you hinder Physical Atk, which is what Payback is based off of. And you won't be as likely to utilize Payback's maximum power since you're likely to move first.

I'd personally go for Knock Off and Surf. STAB Surf hits hard enough, Knock Off makes Tentacruel a nice team player.

Focus Sash+252 HP is a pretty dumb idea unless you're running some kind of Counter gimmick, which Tentacruel can't do.

calze6
29th November 2010, 11:16 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention this is for ubers. I'll probs change the nature to Hasty as payback can kill deoxys-s which is very important. Ice beam will beat lead quaza. Sash + 252 will allow it to survive a 2HKO on some special attacks will not getting OHKOed by physical sets like groudon. Things like deoxys-s also run something like that. 252HP + sash is not redundant.

randomspot555
29th November 2010, 6:57 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention this is for ubers. I'll probs change the nature to naive as payback can kill deoxys-s which is very important. Ice beam will beat lead quaza. Sash + 252 will allow it to survive a 2HKO on some special attacks will not getting OHKOed by physical sets like groudon. Things like deoxys-s also run something like that. 252HP + sash is not redundant.

It's guaranteed to survivet one hit with the Sash. Making a Focus Sash holder to survive more than one hit means you're just wasting EVs in a useless stat.

If it gets knocked out in 3 hits, then that means there were two turns that could've had Leftovers recovery but didn't.

Blue Harvest
29th November 2010, 7:33 PM
Why would you ever run a Naive Tentacruel.

Payback isn't guaranteed a 2HKO with either nature. Lead Spiker is 3HKOed 100% of the time even if you are Naive. Just run Calm and hope you get lucky against Scarf Palkia before dying. You're still taking 58% minimum from Specs Kyogre lol. There isn't much in ubers Tentacruel can switch in on in Ubers. Use Leftovers.

Just run Forretress and build your team well. Tentacruel will MAYBE lay Toxic Spikes before getting itself killed

Darkfall
30th November 2010, 12:44 AM
An OU version of that Tentacruel sure would be nice to see though.


Dusknoir:
Impish @ Leftovers
252 HP / 28 Atk / 228 Def

Substitute
Disable
Pain Split
Ice Punch/Earthquake/Pursuit


A little something I've been working on and used to moderate success, the idea is to switch Dusknoir in whenever appropriate, Sub up and then Disable whatever move the opponent hits you with.
Pain Split is there for healing mostly, and the attack move can be anything you want, with Ice Punch/Earthquake being generally reliable moves anyway, and Pursuit being useful to take advantage of your opponents likeliness to retreat.

This set does rely on prediction and Disable's 80% accuracy, but it is a novelty set that works well with hazard support. If Wish is on your team and can be used effectively, you may even drop Pain Split.

Sucker Punch / Status moves could be useful too, as well as Focus Punch, but make the set more prediction-centric.

Ambipom:
Jolly @ Focus Sash
252 Atk / 252 Spe

Counter
Last Resort

Bit of fun really. I've used it as a novelty revenge killer before, knocking out a +1 Metagross with Counter and then Last Resorting the switch in.

Falls to hazards, Ghost/Steel (after Counter) wall it to high hell and priority moves end him, but still fun for anyone getting bored of stale sets. A sort of semi-serious set if you will.