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Gamefreak
17th May 2011, 8:24 AM
kk, because everyone says Sub Petaya Empoleon sucks, I decided to make a Sub Petaya Empoleon team a while back. Type synergy wise, it resists every type twice except fire and rock, and in general it seems solid. It also covers most threats really well, so please post suggestions to make it better!

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Roserade (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Toxic Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Knowing that I was going to build the team around Sub Petaya Empoleon, I knew I was going to need Toxic Spikes to stall out some common counters to it such as Blissey, Suicune, and Vaporeon. I also know Roserade makes a pretty cool suicide lead, so I decided to use it. Sleep Powder disables slower leads, but I wouldn't use it against Metagross or Machamp since they usually pack Lum Berry. Leaf Storm is strong STAB which hits Azelf, and most pokemon which don't resist it hard. It also deals with lead Starmie, which has become a bit more common. Hidden Power Fire deals with Forretress who would try to spin my Toxic Spikes, and it hits Skarmory or Scizor who would otherwise take advantage of me and Spike or Swords Dance. A Focus Sash negates any need for any defensive EV's, so I just run the standard sweeper spread. I didn't use Hidden Power Ice, since I feel Hidden Power Fire is more useful overall since steels trouble this set alot more than Dragonite does. I run Scizor. If Roserade somehow lives past turn two, it can absorb Toxic Spikes which can give Tyraniboah some life span issues.

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Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 176 SAtk / 24 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Focus Punch

I felt like sand would be useful for the team, and I needed a reliable switch into Heatran/Rotom in general so I decided to run Tyranitar. I also knew I was pretty weak to stall, so Tyraniboah was rather fitting. The cool thing about Tyranitar, is that Empoleon resists water, bug, steel, so Empoleon can get a free turn with more ease. While most modern stall has adapted to Tyraniboah, he is still a very strong threat to it with Toxic Spikes since he can stall things out. It is also able to hold its own against faster teams with all the switches he can cause. I also like Tyraniboah since even if you get burned, you still aren't dead weight because you can still attack from the special side. It is also useful if you fight a random dual screen offense team that utilizes Uxie, because Tyraniboah makes an excellent switch into such teams. I chose to run Ice Beam to 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon/Zapdos, and to OHKO Gliscor who is a *** to this team. Ice Beam also hits physically defensive Breloom hard. Focus Punch lets you beat Blissey, and hits most things relatively hard. Machamp in particular doesn't like taking Focus Punches to the face. It is strong as a STAB'd neutral Stone Edge. Dark Pulse lets you hit Rotom, is STAB, and lets you hit pokemon like Swampert pretty hard. If Toxic Spikes are down, and you flinch Swampert with Dark Pulse, you can actually easily overcome a major obstable for most Tyranitar. The EV's allow you to make 101HP Substitutes so Blissey can never break them with Seismic Toss, hit a jump point in SpA, and help power up Focus Punch a bit. They also allow you to outrun 4Spe Blissey.

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Empoleon (M) @ Petaya Berry
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 240 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Agility
- Substitute

Sub Petaya Empoleon is quite a rare threat in the current metagame, and its not hard to see why. The ever so common F/W/G cores do Empoleon no favors since his counters become a bit more relavent, and Scarfed Flygon or Scarfed Rotom is on pretty much every team. Nonetheless, Sub Petaya Empoleon can absolutely run through a team with proper support. It can get a turn to set-up really easily with his awesome typing. Toxic Spikes allows you to outstall your grounded counters, while Ice Beam is usually enough for Dragonite who can take a Petaya Torrent boosted Surf easily. The idea of this set is to get a free turn on a choiced pokemon or something similar, Agility, then Sub until you get a Petaya boost, a Torrent boost, and just sweep. Luckily Empoleon resists most priority, so if your opponent depends on something like CB Scizor to glue up most of his weaknesses, Empoleon can easily take advantage and sweep them clean. I also find myself using Sub before Agility alot of the time to hit Flygon as it comes in expecting an Agility. Oh, and it turns SpD Forretress into setup bait. That alone is very satisfying.

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Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

I knew I had a gaping weakness to fighting moves, and Stealth Rock was a no brainer, so I decided to use Britscor. I had to drop Toxic from the moveslot since I needed to use Stealth Rock, but it isn't a HUGE deal since I run Toxic Spikes. Taunt messes with Blissey and other pokemon who would try to heal off any damage Gliscor or the Toxic Spikes would do to it. Roost keeps Gliscor healthy, while Earthquake is arguably one of the best attacking moves in the game. An even better STAB at that. I considered more defensive EV's since I don't run Toxic on my Gliscor, so I don't really need to speed tie it for the Toxic. However, I am not completely sold on it yet. Sand Veil makes Gliscor very annoying to take down, especially if they depend on hitting me with Stone Edge in Tyranitar's case. Talking about Tyranitar, Gliscor actually makes a great Tyranitar check. It is also a great switch into Scarfed Flygon who can mess with Empoleon.

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Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Rotom W can spinblock, Trick to mess with stall or give Empoleon or Tyranitar a turn to set up, and is a reliable revenge killer for such threats as Empoleon, Gyarados, Lucario, Scizor, Kingdra, slower versions of Agility Metagross, and many others. With such an exclusive typing, great STABs, and an awesome movepool considering Hydro Pump and Overheat; it is hard to see why Rotom wouldn't be a standard choice on most teams. While I do like bulky Scarfed Rotom, I decided to make this variant offensive to really wear down Tyranitar assuming I hit it with Hydro Pump on the switch. I also would like to hit Suicune, Gliscor, and Heatran harder in general who can really annoy this team. It is a great fighting resist, taking into account that I run Empoleon and Tyranitar. It also cleans up weakened teams late game, and helps with my slight Breloom issue. It is also one of the best Infernape checks you can get really.

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Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack

CB Scizor is cool because U-Turn helps you wear down counters to Empoleon and Tyranitar while at the same time giving them free switch ins. It provides awesome resistences to the team with that coveted steel/bug typing. It also provides priority which is very useful for Shaymin, Dragonite, Life Orb Aerodactyl, Gengar, Mamoswine, and Starmie which can really give this team grief. Quick Attack can hit Infernape and Tentacruel hard. Toxic Spikes, Life Orb, and Sand pretty much guarantee Infernape won't be getting all too much done. It also hits Gyarados, Zapdos, and Jolteon. Scizor also helps me against weakened Agility Lucario and DD Shuca Tyranitar who were previously huge threats to the team. My EV's are standard, except I don't use speed and put the 8 in SpD. I like to pair Scizor up with Scarfed Rotom since Scizor is kinda Magnezone bait, and Scarfed Rotom can end up tricking his Scarf. The utility of having two glue pokemon which work together is really cool. Without Scizor, I would be Weavile weak which is really sad. It is my first switch into Kingdra as well, as it can Quick Attack twice since it can easily live a +1 Waterfall. It also does well against Bronzong since Banded U-Turn carves a good amount into it for something like Rotom to handle it with a bit more ease.


Notes:Roserade/Rotom W/Scizor/Empoleon/Dragonite/Swampert. More Starmie/Tar/Loom weak, but less Gengar weak.

AB2
17th May 2011, 10:48 PM
Wow awesome team! If this was a Fire / Water / Grass core team I'd 5 star it on the spot but too bad! The biggest weakness I see here is that you're really weak to CM Wish Jirachi. In fact just about nothing on this team can take it, as it sets up all over the place. Rotom-W is the closest team member that you have to a check, and its not really that solid of one considering that if your opponent predicts correctly and you trick your scarf away, then Rotom simply becomes set up fodder. Also, you're kind of stall weak considering that Tyranitar can't break down Skarm / Bliss effectively, and Gliscor is not running roost meaning that it won't be around for long. Kingdra also seems to bug this team quite a bit as Empoleon, Rotom, and a few others are complete set up fodder for Chesto Rest Kingdra. Rotom isn't really a good check at all, even though you stated it as Chesto Rest Kingdra can just rack up Dragon Dances and rest of all the damage, which is especially effective in absorbing your Toxic Spikes. Not as big of a problem, but a bulkier Breloom can be kind of annoying considering that some run enough HP EVs to live through earthquakes. You give it automatic poison heal recovery upon switching and it can sleep anything on this team, meaning that it opens you up to other threats. So while you aren't directly weak to Breloom, its more or less of an annoyance to this team than anything.

It seems that Tyranitar is the weakest member on this team. Honestly it doesn't really break stall all that well since Skarmory can still tank Focus Punches and spike on you. Also, Tyraniboah isn't exactly the greatest set for stallbreaking in general. In my opinion, this team would be much better off with a Mixed Dragonite over Tyranitar. This allows you to take down cores such as Rest Talk Gyarados | Skarmory | Blissey | Rotom down so much easier, especially with Toxic Spikes. Also, Breloom becomes much easier to check as does Calm Mind Jirachi, which helps this team immensely in the long run. Next, I'd try running a pokemon that can lure in and at least help you versus Kingdra to an extent as well as supporting Empoleon. A Passho Heatrap would work perfectly here over Scizor as it if you EV it correctly, you can explode on Kingdra before it has the opportunity to get too many dragon dances. From there, you can hopefully play around Kingdra enough for it not to become a threat. Also, Passho Heatran allows you to run Toxic over Stealth Rocks on Gliscor, which in turn which allows you to use the conventional Britscor stallbreaker set. As for some other options, you could try running Swampert over Gliscor, but then sadly Tyranitar and Breloom would then become a little bit more of a problem.

Heatran @ Passho Berry
Hasty 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Flash Fire
Stealth Rocks | Magma Storm | Earth Power | Explosion

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Mild 56 Atk | 252 SpA | 200 Spe Inner Focus
Draco Meteor | Fire Blast | Superpower | Roost

Other than that, this is a pretty solid team. Good Luck.

Blue Harvest
17th May 2011, 11:32 PM
A little Infernape weak! Kinda depends on how you handle your Rotom. And if, you know, Hydro Pump doesn't miss.

Agility Lucario OHKOs everything on your team except Scizor, who is OHKOed after about 20% prior damage.

Starmie weak. I guess you have Rotom but your only Water resist besides Roserade is KOed by Thunderbolt and can't take much damage without risking losing out on its sweep. Not that Empoleon can hurt Starmie with water/ice. I suppose in a good situation you can wear it down and finish it with Rotom.

Somewhere between the Suicune and Shaymin on almost every team Empoleon is getting walled. Empoleon may do better running Grass Knot as this lets you usually beat Suicune and with Toxic Spikes down you can beat Shaymin by Sub stalling until its below 50%, in which case a boosted Surf will OHKO. Grass Knot will let you beat F/W/G cores, Ice Beam just hits Dragonite / Shaymin (both of whom can be worn down and KOed easily). But I guess Ice Beam works too.

Try Timid and max speed on Empoleon. This will outrun all Scarf Rotom and approximately 40% of Scarf Flygon (its better than nothing).

Gamefreak
18th May 2011, 8:58 AM
Wow awesome team! If this was a Fire / Water / Grass core team I'd 5 star it on the spot but too bad! The biggest weakness I see here is that you're really weak to CM Wish Jirachi. In fact just about nothing on this team can take it, as it sets up all over the place. Rotom-W is the closest team member that you have to a check, and its not really that solid of one considering that if your opponent predicts correctly and you trick your scarf away, then Rotom simply becomes set up fodder. Also, you're kind of stall weak considering that Tyranitar can't break down Skarm / Bliss effectively, and Gliscor is not running roost meaning that it won't be around for long. Kingdra also seems to bug this team quite a bit as Empoleon, Rotom, and a few others are complete set up fodder for Chesto Rest Kingdra. Rotom isn't really a good check at all, even though you stated it as Chesto Rest Kingdra can just rack up Dragon Dances and rest of all the damage, which is especially effective in absorbing your Toxic Spikes. Not as big of a problem, but a bulkier Breloom can be kind of annoying considering that some run enough HP EVs to live through earthquakes. You give it automatic poison heal recovery upon switching and it can sleep anything on this team, meaning that it opens you up to other threats. So while you aren't directly weak to Breloom, its more or less of an annoyance to this team than anything.

It seems that Tyranitar is the weakest member on this team. Honestly it doesn't really break stall all that well since Skarmory can still tank Focus Punches and spike on you. Also, Tyraniboah isn't exactly the greatest set for stallbreaking in general. In my opinion, this team would be much better off with a Mixed Dragonite over Tyranitar. This allows you to take down cores such as Rest Talk Gyarados | Skarmory | Blissey | Rotom down so much easier, especially with Toxic Spikes. Also, Breloom becomes much easier to check as does Calm Mind Jirachi, which helps this team immensely in the long run. Next, I'd try running a pokemon that can lure in and at least help you versus Kingdra to an extent as well as supporting Empoleon. A Passho Heatrap would work perfectly here over Scizor as it if you EV it correctly, you can explode on Kingdra before it has the opportunity to get too many dragon dances. From there, you can hopefully play around Kingdra enough for it not to become a threat. Also, Passho Heatran allows you to run Toxic over Stealth Rocks on Gliscor, which in turn which allows you to use the conventional Britscor stallbreaker set. As for some other options, you could try running Swampert over Gliscor, but then sadly Tyranitar and Breloom would then become a little bit more of a problem.

Heatran @ Passho Berry
Hasty 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Flash Fire
Stealth Rocks | Magma Storm | Earth Power | Explosion

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Mild 56 Atk | 252 SpA | 200 Spe Inner Focus
Draco Meteor | Fire Blast | Superpower | Roost

Other than that, this is a pretty solid team. Good Luck.

Seems reasonable, but those fixes make me Gengar weak. Thankfully Focus Blast is a bad move, and HP Fire Gengar already was capable of messing the team up from the start.

Overall, I like the suggestions! I was skeptical about Britscor and Mix Nite on the same team at first, but I think I like the idea now since neither of them can defeat stall on their own, but when combined I almost auto win against stall with Toxic Spikes.


A little Infernape weak! Kinda depends on how you handle your Rotom. And if, you know, Hydro Pump doesn't miss.

Agility Lucario OHKOs everything on your team except Scizor, who is OHKOed after about 20% prior damage.

Starmie weak. I guess you have Rotom but your only Water resist besides Roserade is KOed by Thunderbolt and can't take much damage without risking losing out on its sweep. Not that Empoleon can hurt Starmie with water/ice. I suppose in a good situation you can wear it down and finish it with Rotom.

Somewhere between the Suicune and Shaymin on almost every team Empoleon is getting walled. Empoleon may do better running Grass Knot as this lets you usually beat Suicune and with Toxic Spikes down you can beat Shaymin by Sub stalling until its below 50%, in which case a boosted Surf will OHKO. Grass Knot will let you beat F/W/G cores, Ice Beam just hits Dragonite / Shaymin (both of whom can be worn down and KOed easily). But I guess Ice Beam works too.

Try Timid and max speed on Empoleon. This will outrun all Scarf Rotom and approximately 40% of Scarf Flygon (its better than nothing).

Yeah, all of those are somewhat annoying. Ice Beam > Grass Knot though, since Dragonite is a dick. Timid Empoleon is also possible, but I really like Modest Empoleon's power.

Thanks to both of you for the rates!