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Hexin' Wishes
19th November 2011, 12:17 AM
I believe it can have a kind of relationship with the commonly called "Pokémon Gray". The only thing I'm truly waiting for is to see if they're going to make the third version or not, as Tajiri Satoshi didn't even plan to make it at once.

Should there be a third version, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that the Abyssal Ruins may be embellished on. Especially considering that Gray seems likely to be a 3DS game, they could even add in another Legendary should they feel the need to (or planned it this way so there wouldn't be any spoilers).

I just hope that Kyreum remains the legendary for it (it makes sense considering the color scheme) but has a different form ala Giratina (maybe the theory of it being the withered carcass of the original Dragon Pokemon is correct?)

Firebrand
20th November 2011, 12:52 AM
Totally not on the subject of the ruins, but on Reshiram and Zekrom. I know we call them (and Kyurem) the Tao Trio, which makes sense because of their relation to Taoist concepts. But... in the end, it is really only Zekrom who can be tied to the Tao, which is the more potent of Yin forces in the Chinese religions (or more aptly, philosophies).

It is rather ironic, though, that Zekrom is the Black Yin pokemon, and it's design was supposed to be very masculine, and (when compared to Reshiram) seems to have more technological enhancements (what appears to be body armor, metal studs, and a jet turbine). Even it's name is... well, strange. In an interview, Ken Sugimori said that Zekrom was given the Ze sound in it's name because it sounded harder and more powerful than Reshiram's Re.
This Yin force is seen throughout White, in the older, more natural Opelucid City, and White Forest. Yin represents nature, so this makes sense.

Reshiram, despite having a feminine body form, represents Yang, which is heat, masculinity, society. Again, this is seen in the more advanced Opelucid, and Black City. However, the point I would like to make is that while Zekrom is Yin and therefore is tied to Taoism, Reshiram is Yang, and is therefore tied to Confucianism, a philosophy that prizes order and society above all else.

So... I only put this forward to say that while the Tao trio may be correct nominally, Zekrom is the only member that truly represents Taoism.

Now, on the Kyurem stuff... as many have stated, Kyurem represents wuji, or the lack of both yin and yang (which theoretically shouldn't be possible, but whatever). However, wuji is also the chaos from which yin and yang emerged from. Common representations of yin and yang show the symbol on a black field. That field is wuji. So it does make sense, when considered from that angle, that Kyurem is the discarded carcass of the One Dragon.

Finally:

they could even add in another Legendary should they feel the need to
This won't happen. They could not design another pokemon, and put it in the game, and then have that game be backwards compatible with black and white (which if it comes about, it will be). Plus, it doesn't make sense to design one more pokemon to put in game. I know, just because it's never been done, doesn't mean it can't be done. It just seems very unlikely.

VictiniKing
21st November 2011, 5:46 PM
I have been stuck on the strange letters in the Abyssal Ruins near Undella Bay. I looked up the words on the internet and found this:

Listen to King's words.
Primes lead to truth.
King is brave.
King never loses hope.
King is kind.
King has a dream.
King is adventurous.
King accepts all.
King turns 2nd corner.
King turns 3rd corner.
King turns 5th corner.
King turns 7th corner.
Have the heart of King.
Here we praise King.
King's light shines.
King moves his people.
King acts with love.
King fought hatred.
No king gets lost.
Go on, brave king.

Life is gratitude.
Eating is receiving life.
Good or evil isn't all.
Do not be barbaric.
One must not waste.
All is precious.
Wars create tears.

King talks to all beings.
Saved all from waves.
King is hope for all.
Think act with love.

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.



some peaople think it's about Arceus, thus explaining why you find the plates there. I agree that it does have to do something with Arceus, but what? What do you guys think?

BCVM22
22nd November 2011, 3:26 AM
Read back. There's no logic to suggesting or believing that they created and implemented this complex and mysterious location in Unova for the sole purpose of giving more spotlight to a critter from the previous generation.

I realize that you didn't purposely post this information - not new information in the slightest - in a 13-page thread, but the thread is here and your post is here now. Read back some.

Xaby
22nd November 2011, 3:37 AM
Totally not on the subject of the ruins, but on
This won't happen. They could not design another pokemon, and put it in the game, and then have that game be backwards compatible with black and white (which if it comes about, it will be). Plus, it doesn't make sense to design one more pokemon to put in game. I know, just because it's never been done, doesn't mean it can't be done. It just seems very unlikely.

I think it's possible, although not a new Pokémon itself, but a new form for Kyurem. Just like Giratina's Origin Forme, which was not available in the original D/P but only from Platinum onwards (same goes for Sky-min). Or maybe a Chekov's Bullet for Gen VI, just like Regigigas for the R/S/E Regi-trio. Just pulling straws of course, but I'm just saying that it is NOT entirely impossible. If they want to complete or add more stories, they could definitely find a way to make it happen.

Glover
22nd November 2011, 3:41 AM
You know, I was doing some reading. Have any of you either seen the Jap release for Victini and Zek/Res? If you don't mind being spoiled, go over to Bulbapedia and read the summaries, there's a lot of corrolaries between the Ruins and the movie plot. What if, (I'm wrong) and it is or was originally an Event place for the movie and all that's left is a sunken ruin with no programming?

BCVM22
22nd November 2011, 3:45 AM
What if, (I'm wrong) and it is or was originally an Event place for the movie and all that's left is a sunken ruin with no programming?

I guarantee you that they didn't an entire location in the game solely to coincide with a movie release. If there's any connection - which nothing says there is - it's the movie crew loosely basing Movie 14 on the concept of abandoned ruins, itself not a concept that sprang forth from Black/White at all.

And even if the Abyssal Ruins were meant to be more than they are in Black and White but are not for whatever reason - not tremendously likely, but possible - they likely still have a whole third game to correct that.

Glover
22nd November 2011, 3:47 AM
I guarantee you that they didn't an entire location in the game solely to coincide with a movie release. If there's any connection - which nothing says there is - it's the movie crew loosely basing Movie 14 on the concept of abandoned ruins, itself not a concept that sprang forth from Black/White at all.

And even if the Abyssal Ruins were meant to be more than they are in Black and White but are not for whatever reason - not tremendously likely, but possible - they likely still have a whole third game to correct that.

No, I was more going by the sunken ruins, and the part where "King" gets tossed around a whole lot. Not King So-and So, just King.

BCVM22
22nd November 2011, 3:59 AM
I am aware. Everything I said stands.

Glover
22nd November 2011, 4:01 AM
Eh, if nothing else, it's a different idea from "It's a tool for introduciung older Legendearies." "No it's not, that's stupid it has to be for the Unova Legendaries"...

Firebrand
23rd November 2011, 4:28 AM
I think it's possible, although not a new Pokémon itself, but a new form for Kyurem. Just like Giratina's Origin Forme, which was not available in the original D/P but only from Platinum onwards (same goes for Sky-min). Or maybe a Chekov's Bullet for Gen VI, just like Regigigas for the R/S/E Regi-trio. Just pulling straws of course, but I'm just saying that it is NOT entirely impossible. If they want to complete or add more stories, they could definitely find a way to make it happen.

Aye, this seems at least a little more likely to me than anything else. It's just (to me) the quoted poster seemed to be proposing a BRAND NEW pokemon.
Back to a more at-hand matter... Kyurem's ability is pressure, right? And as it stands now, only two unova pokemon (darmanitan and musharna) have hidden abilities. Well, this means that other unova pokemon can (and likely will) eventually get hidden abilities somwhere down the line.
What if Kyurem had it's special hidden ability as something like Zen mode? When certain conditions are met, something about kyurem changes (like, if it is the discarded corpse of the One Dragon), and tweaking its stats. A generation ago, I'd dismiss the idea out of hand. But now, with darmanitan... it's still highly unlikely ^_^o
Still, I think it'd be an interesting twist if kyurem could suddenly change midbattle, as opposed to being due to a hold item. That is, if it changes at all. No matter which way you slice it, kyurem is cool (no pun intended) and most of its appeal to me is the mystery surrounding it. I hope GF does something really awesome with its mythos.

Hexin' Wishes
23rd November 2011, 5:48 AM
Aye, this seems at least a little more likely to me than anything else. It's just (to me) the quoted poster seemed to be proposing a BRAND NEW pokemon.


Yeah, I ignored your post because I thought it was a bit ridiculous. I said they "COULD add... IF they should feel the need to", not that they definitely "should" or even that they "would". Not only that but you decided to focus on that one sentence when I also mentioned hoping that Kyreum got a form change ala Giratina (which you said was "more likely" to another poster but didn't even acknowledge it in my post). You basically ran off on one line of my post to rip it a part instead of commenting on the whole thing.

FYI, I'd much rather a held item change than an in-battle change (which I find incredibly lame).

BCVM22
23rd November 2011, 6:03 AM
What if Kyurem had it's special hidden ability as something like Zen mode? When certain conditions are met, something about kyurem changes (like, if it is the discarded corpse of the One Dragon), and tweaking its stats.

If Kyurem had a hidden ability in Black and White, it would be in the game's coding, which is how we know of the myriad other such abilities.

This is not to say that they couldn't assign it one in any potential future games, just that we know it doesn't have one in B/W.

Excitable Boy
24th November 2011, 12:09 AM
This is not to say that they couldn't assign it one in any potential future games, just that we know it doesn't have one in B/W.

Couldn't that only occur in a future generation, though? I'm unsure of what Kyurem has coded, exactly, for Ability slots 1 and 2, but slot 0 is Pressure. Wouldn't having a Gray-exclusive ability restrict that Kyurem to Gray, as BW wouldn't be able to recognize the ability in slot 2? Granted, it's been done with the Spiky Eared Pichu, but given that this is something people will probably actually use, I highly doubt that would occur.

BCVM22
24th November 2011, 12:16 AM
My thinking would be that there's nothing code-wise stopping them from programming that Pokémon A has Ability A in Game A, and Ability B in Game B if they so desired. I could be wrong, which would thoroughly discount the possibility of Kyurem having a hidden ability.

Glover
24th November 2011, 12:20 AM
My thinking would be that there's nothing code-wise stopping them from programming that Pokémon A has Ability A in Game A, and Ability B in Game B if they so desired. I could be wrong, which would thoroughly discount the possibility of Kyurem having a hidden ability.

Right, but this would be giving Ky Abilit A in A 1.1 and Ability B in A 1.2, games that are very likely to be traded amongst and battled amongst. Now, if the programmers knew there was going to be an Ability B in 1.2, then they may have provided for it, and moifying the Global system itself should be cake, the issue comes down to what shows up on 1.1, andc how does someone with B/W battle someone with Grey directly, when that Kyruem shows up?

BCVM22
24th November 2011, 12:59 AM
Hypnosis had a different accuracy among Generation IV titles, didn't it? Assumedly they would assign one to take precedent over the other in battles between the two titles and that would be that.

This is all programming conjecture anyway.

MetalFlygon08
24th November 2011, 6:01 AM
Well if Ky had a completely new Ability uncoded, the games couldn't interact with Ky.

Now if it had a different ability, it wouldn't matter, kinda like how Giratina got Levitate in Plat and would have it in DP.

Xaby
24th November 2011, 6:13 AM
As long as an ability, move, and the Pokémon exist, I think the game can handle them regardless if they are supposed to be legitimate or not. It's just like having a "hacked" Pokémon. It's just like the game being able to handle a Wonder-tomb, for example.

Of course, if the move or ability is something completely different, then the possibility of implementing them would be debatable.

Giratina_Angel
9th December 2011, 12:13 AM
I heard that in the last text the untranslatable symbols are switched between each version. That might indicate that they are talking about version exclusive pokemon (resh and zek oviously).
I'll be really disappointed if they do nothing with this in the 3rd version. Mabye you need to go to Undella before E4 and explore the ruins? (kyurem is in giant chasm, which is in northeast unova, so we might need to go there anyway)
Also the crown you get in the last room looks like the crown you see when Ghetsis crowns N.
And it's annoying that you can't translate the text there. I loved reading unown script. I wonder how the japanese mamaged to translate it.

This just gave me a crazy realisation that maybe the ruins are the remains of N's Castle. But I guess in the game, the castle looked dramatically different when you do the E4. But it is a very large castle, so who knows :)

Kameinu
9th December 2011, 5:54 PM
This just gave me a crazy realisation that maybe the ruins are the remains of N's Castle. But I guess in the game, the castle looked dramatically different when you do the E4. But it is a very large castle, so who knows :)

Impossible. The ruins are ancient.

N's castle was built during Ghetsis' lifetime through the labor of abused Pokemon.

arceus7
10th December 2011, 1:28 AM
and cockraches dont forget that man^

Thats where they got the idea for Genesect yaknow , cockroaches

BCVM22
10th December 2011, 3:40 AM
and cockraches dont forget that man^

Thats where they got the idea for Genesect yaknow , cockroaches

Its origins stem from prehistoric insects as old as the cockroach. That doesn't actually make it cockroach-based.

Mr. pokedude
10th December 2011, 7:50 AM
Impossible. The ruins are ancient.

N's castle was built during Ghetsis' lifetime through the labor of abused Pokemon.

Revenge of the abused Pokemon.


and cockraches dont forget that man^

Thats where they got the idea for Genesect yaknow , cockroaches

Two things:

1. I lost respect for you in that comment. (Not seriously.)
2. No wonder it looks like it can survive radiation.

sAv1Or)
10th December 2011, 5:40 PM
I think its so cool Pokemon involves these things in the game. I love weird archaeology finds in our world so I think it gives the game more realistic depth. It keeps me so interested to find out. So cool.

mastero2101@yahoo.com
11th December 2011, 8:24 PM
#3 looks like it could correspond to manaphy and becuse he lives in the drifting ruins and he was prince of the sea
#4 could stand for lugias ocarina
#5 xcould stand for the water type pokemon
#6 ?

BCVM22
11th December 2011, 9:47 PM
What you've theorized is a mix of anime-only elements and Pokémon from previous generations. They will never incorporate the former and they have no reason to give more spotlight to the latter.

Grei
3rd January 2012, 12:04 AM
I was thinking about the game and i remembered something( please correct me if i'm wrong)

N found his legendary dragon at the Dragonspiral Tower

i don't remember who said, but someone said that they found clues about the orb that would give the player a chance to capture it's legendary dragon at the Relic Castle

finally, i have a theory that maybe the Abyssal Ruins was connected with the third legendary dragon( Kyurem), and after the event that made the ruins sunk, kyurem went to the Giant Chasm, so he could stay there, and come to think, the Giant Chasm is close to the Abyssal Ruins

I know this is an old comment, but if the Abyssal Ruins are connected to a Legendary Pokemon, I think it being Kyurem makes sense for this reason.

Especially because it adds some sort of symmetry to Unova. Think about it:

-In the Northwest, there is Dragonspiral Tower, connected to the Tao trio.
-In the Mid-South, there is the Relic Castle, which is apparently connected to the Tao Trio, and the original location of the Dark/Light Stone.
-In the Southeast, there is the Giant Chasm, home to a member of the Tao Trio, just north of the third ancient ruins site in Unova, the Abyssal Ruins.

However, the people of Lacunosa say that, according to myth, Kyurem appeared in a comet. I'm not sure how these two myths work together. :s Anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking that maybe, Kyurem didn't appear in a comet, but was the "comet" itself. Would this event have to do with sinking of the Abyssal Ruins? Perhaps Kyurem sank them, tried to fly north, but plummeted to the earth due to his poor shape just outside of Lacunosa Town?

MetalFlygon08
3rd January 2012, 4:36 AM
I like to think there was 2 kingdoms, Relic Castle, and Abyssal Ruins were each the 2 capitols. Dragon Spiral Tower was the neutral ground where either Kingdom could meet to disscuss kingdom stuff.

When the kingdom that would become the Abyssal Ruins sank, that Kingdom's dragon retreated to Dragon Spiral Tower, while the one in Relic Castle stayed in it's town.

Some sort of disaster struck, sinking the east kingdom, and turning the west kingdom into a harsh desert.

shadow wolf
3rd January 2012, 6:19 AM
With Kyurem I have a little though of how it happened.

I say the original dragon(you know the one that the Tao Trio were before the split) flew up high into the sky before it split, which in turn would cause the corpse a.k.a Kyurem to come plumeting to the Earth. Now, as an Ice type Kyurem's body would heat up upon re-entry causing it to appear as a comet. Upon impact a giant shockwave caused the water around the impact zone(which would later become known as the Giant Chasm) to create a tsunami which traveled south and sunk the the ancient civilization that would later become known as the Abyssal Ruins.

A little bit more about Kyurem, if we consider what I mentioned above, it would explain why Kyurem appears more broken than it would be normally, since it is asymetrical. With the Legend of Lucanosa about Kyurem eating people and pokemon alike could be true as he appears as a corpse(zombie anyone), appears to be damaged and could be trying to heal itself, and with being an absence of energy hence the Ice typing and can no longer keep a steady source of energy like Resiram/Zekrom(I consider these guys the/a physical embodient of Thermal/Electrical Energy respectively, so they do not require an external energy source since they are/produce it.). So Kyurem is required to eat or suck out the energy of other organisms in order to still function. This is all the myths I recall involving Kyurem.

This is all in my opinion and the way I see how these events transpired, so both myths can be true.

Apple-chan
3rd January 2012, 12:44 PM
I've been reading a lot of this thread, and I haven't seen the theory I'm most interested in.
For me, because I have White:
'King defeated Reshiram alone.
Reshiram joined King in a day. (Since, if you defeat a Pokemon, you have the chance to catch it and it will be 'yours', essentially)
King called Pokemon 'beings'. (I really like this theory!)
The great King, N.'
In Black, you would replace Reshiram with Zekrom.

Indigoodra
4th January 2012, 12:51 AM
I've been reading a lot of this thread, and I haven't seen the theory I'm most interested in.
For me, because I have White:
'King defeated Reshiram alone.
Reshiram joined King in a day. (Since, if you defeat a Pokemon, you have the chance to catch it and it will be 'yours', essentially)
King called Pokemon 'beings'. (I really like this theory!)
The great King, N.'
In Black, you would replace Reshiram with Zekrom.

Heeeey, that makes sense!

A lot of sense!
but what about grey? ._.
:601:

Kameinu
4th January 2012, 12:58 AM
I've been reading a lot of this thread, and I haven't seen the theory I'm most interested in.
For me, because I have White:
'King defeated Reshiram alone.
Reshiram joined King in a day. (Since, if you defeat a Pokemon, you have the chance to catch it and it will be 'yours', essentially)
King called Pokemon 'beings'. (I really like this theory!)
The great King, N.'
In Black, you would replace Reshiram with Zekrom.

Thats not possible.

The lines...

"King defeated ? alone.
? joined King in a day."

Have a different character in place of the ?. Who King defeats isn't who joined him.

Phoenixchamp5
9th January 2012, 7:05 AM
King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Its said that reshiram and zekrom came from one dragon with the dispute from the brothers , kyurem was thought to be the leftover corpse.

its also thought that kyurem could have other signature moves but cannot learn it yet.
its ice burn and freeze shock so he gets either when united with one of them im guessing so


3 Reshiram/Zekrom depending
4 Reshiram/Zekrom depending
5 im not sure
6 Kyurem


well thats my theory
5 im not sure about thats the tricky part for i kinda think its not connected with this

i got this info of kyurem zekrom and reshiram from bulbapedia

Hihidarmanitan
9th January 2012, 10:36 PM
I always thought the Abyssal Ruins had something to do with Sinnoh lore. You find plates that belong to Arceus and Cynthia is interested in investigating it.

BCVM22
10th January 2012, 12:47 AM
Which still brings us back to the fact that they have nothing to gain by promoting old material when there's still more than plenty they can do with the current generation's material.

Falconx03
12th January 2012, 4:26 AM
From looking at that I think the king refers to the player as the door to the second floor says "Go on Brave king" if you get there in time, of course you can then "go on" up to the second floor therefore implying that your are the king.

After reading that, I presume that the player is a descendant of King and which that is why they reference the player as King.

shinygal
12th January 2012, 3:31 PM
I always thought the Abyssal Ruins had something to do with Sinnoh lore. You find plates that belong to Arceus and Cynthia is interested in investigating it.

thats what i thought its kinda weird considering that next gen there probally redoing sinnoh maybe it will be the release of that game when we solve the mystery

Indigoodra
12th January 2012, 5:34 PM
After reading that, I presume that the player is a descendant of King and which that is why they reference the player as King.

OR...

The ruins were originally designed for the people's king to go into, or a descendant, which may or may not be the player. I mean, what with the technological advances in a few thousand years, I think bloodline is nearly, if not entirely, obsolete. :/

Ememew
13th January 2012, 4:34 AM
Which still brings us back to the fact that they have nothing to gain by promoting old material when there's still more than plenty they can do with the current generation's material.

About the only non-Gen V Pokemon I would think would be related to the Ruins (or anything else in Unova) is Regigigas, and that's only because of the need to have Gen III games or an event to get it in the generation it was introduced in. Difficulty in obtainability, unless they're planning on having it in Hoenn remakes with its Regi-brethren, might be enough to include it in a Unova title.

And I will say that this would not be the first time a previous-generation legendary has made it into a 3rd game for a generation's region, precedent being the Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres roaming Sinnoh in the Platinum post-game.

I agree that it would make much more sense to promote current-gen legends with the Ruins, especially since they have a good chance of being linked to the main story by the third game (especially by virtue of the symbols that switch depending on which version of the game you have*). But even though I see it being more likely to relate to Unovan Pokemon, I can see some reasons for them to promote a previous-gen Pokemon in Unova, if not necessarily through the Abyssal Ruins.

*I see this as the main evidence that the Ruins, at least, are probably related to Unovan Pokemon, as no previous-Gen legends are B/W version exclusives, whereas Reshiram, Zekrom, Tornadus, and Thundurus fit that bill in B/W. Previous Gen things might be related to other areas, but since the Abyssal Ruins' runes are linked to differences in the Black and White games, they're probably related to Unovan Pokemon.

EDIT: Just so there aren't misunderstandings, this is more of me thinking "out loud" than arguing a point. I just used your post as a jumping off point.

LightSuicune
13th January 2012, 7:03 PM
This is really interesting! I bet the King refers to N? This entire legend could be explained more in Gray?

BCVM22
13th January 2012, 7:57 PM
If you believe that the cuneiform was written long enough ago that the structure in which you find it now qualifies as "ancient ruins", then no, it likely doesn't refer to a character who's a teenager in the present day.

Some manner of deeper explanation in the third game is probable.

magikrap
14th January 2012, 7:20 AM
Read this whole thread a few days ago, lots of interesting theories being thrown around here. Well, some are a little painful to try and read through... but for the most part, it really got me excited for the next game this gen! BW's story seems so much more intricate than any other game previous... I'm intrigued to find out the tales behind Kyurem. I highly doubt any previous gen Pokemon has anything to do with the Abyssal Ruins, it makes no sense that they would go to all this trouble to give a place to an older legendary. Its something to do with the Tao Trio, and a lot of things that are difficult to speculate about (the story of the brothers, the Relic Castle/Dragonspiral Tower) because we don't know enough yet. All I can say is that I'm definitely getting Gray (or whatever its called) when it comes out. Things like this just make me feel even more baffled when people say "the new Pokemon games suck"... earlier gens were fantastic too, but none of them had a plot like this one.

Claus351
23rd January 2012, 3:29 AM
Sorry if this has already been said, as I've only read the first few pages, but perhaps the plates have something to do with it; Maybe it was some tribe of people who thought Arceus was their king and so thats why all the plates are there, and "King" of course refers to him. just a thought. :)

Grei
26th January 2012, 6:21 AM
OR...

The ruins were originally designed for the people's king to go into, or a descendant, which may or may not be the player. I mean, what with the technological advances in a few thousand years, I think bloodline is nearly, if not entirely, obsolete. :/

This. I don't think they'd make the player a "descendant" of anyone. Since it's the player character (who is a silent protagonist), the player themselves is supposed to fill in all of the details about the protagonist themselves--which would include the player's history, lineage, ancestry, etc.


Sorry if this has already been said, as I've only read the first few pages, but perhaps the plates have something to do with it; Maybe it was some tribe of people who thought Arceus was their king and so thats why all the plates are there, and "King" of course refers to him. just a thought. :)

The Abyssal Ruins being about or relating to Arceus is a pretty popular idea, it seems. :)

As BCVM has said, it's unlikely that they're using the Abyssal Ruins to promote a Pokemon from an older Generation--Arceus belonging in Abyssal Ruins would make sense if the Abyssal Ruins were an event-only area, specifically for Arceus distribution, I think.

I wouldn't say Arceus (or other past Legendaries, like Regigigas) couldn't be referenced in the Abyssal Ruins, but I think if any Legendary is supposed to be the focus here, it'd be a 5th Gen Legend. Kyurem makes the most sense, with it living so close to the Abyssal Ruins, and with Reshiram and Zekrom appearing respectively in the other two ancient structures in Unova.

I want to say that the "King," if it isn't a Pokemon, is an ancient member of Team Plasma, but that's saying quite a lot about Team Plasma, and indicates that it has a very long history. This, however, may contradict the dialogue of the seven sages, which often seems to hint that Ghetsis was the founder of Team Plasma. (Or, perhaps, the one who revived Team Plasma...?)

ThsSpiritJester
11th February 2012, 3:23 PM
i like the prophecy idea but lets consider this

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

3 could mean n/ghetsis
4 possibly cheren and bianca
5 maby means "all" reffering to the pokedex quest
if "king" is the player then this could reffer to the player stopping ghetsis' plan to seperate humans and pokemon thus incurring hope for the future
the great king [insert player name here]

☭Secret_Shocker☭
12th February 2012, 4:57 AM
At first I don't get these ruins. But as time passes, I got the relic crown xD and sold it for loads of money.

ericmiller43
22nd February 2012, 6:31 AM
My theory in Pokemon White is that the relic castle was where the brother who had Zekrom was and the brother with Resiram was in Dragon Spiral Tower. When the brothers went to stop the war the Ruins and Relic Castle was destroyed in the process so the people long forgot about Zekrom hence why no one knew about Zekrom in White and the other brother with Resiram remained and Rule over what was left of the kingdom.

BCVM22
22nd February 2012, 6:58 AM
And what does it do to the theory that Reshiram is important in Black where Zekrom is important in White and vice versa but neither game takes continuital priority over the other?

Ponymon
25th February 2012, 5:21 PM
i cant even get to the second floor :(

Locormus
26th February 2012, 2:21 AM
i cant even get to the second floor :(

Me neither, so this entire thing is a bit lost to me..

BCVM22
26th February 2012, 2:25 AM
i cant even get to the second floor :(


Me neither, so this entire thing is a bit lost to me..

It's not difficult, it's just not laid out for you anywhere, is all. You'll read this and go "oh, is that all?"

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds/989552-pokemon-black-version/faqs/62593

DemonDragon
26th February 2012, 4:33 AM
so I wonder if we'll get any answers to these theories in the new revealed games.

NoToRiousBrawL
26th February 2012, 8:57 AM
Untill now but I'm not sure I feel there is a Pokemon hidden in there just like what was going on in HGSS..

BCVM22
26th February 2012, 11:17 AM
Untill now but I'm not sure I feel there is a Pokemon hidden in there just like what was going on in HGSS..

...except that we know for a fact that there's nothing hidden in there in B/W.

KamiPein-sama
1st March 2012, 2:05 AM
I still stand with my theory the Ruins are linked to N...

Siebold
1st March 2012, 4:50 PM
This probably won't happen but in BW2 it could rise out of the ground similar to the Plasma Castle in BW1 and be used as a secret hideout?

Grey Wind
3rd March 2012, 3:11 PM
So with Black and White 2 and Kyurem's new forms, and the info that Kyurem "absorbs" Reshiram and Zekrom's energy to transform...

King defeated Reshiram/Zekrom alone.
Reshiram/Zekrom joined King in a day.
King called two (?) beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King Kyurem.

With a little tweaking, this could actually make sense. The movie, while not wholly reliable, calls Kyurem the most powerful Dragon type, which would denote his status as king. Kyurem also absorbs energy from the other two dragons, which would show one of them allying with him to create Black/White Kyurem. The ③ and ④ symbols are swapped in Black and White, which would also carry over to Black and White 2.

Kyurem could defeat one Zekrom and ally itself with Reshiram to create White Kyurem in White and White 2, while the opposite happens in Black and Black 2. I think it's a plausible theory, but more information on Kyurem would make it clearer.

kanto112
7th July 2012, 8:17 PM
Or, possibly, Tornadus and Thundurus.



Me too. :/ It apparently was translated within a week of the game being released.



This is what I'm thinking, that it's a prophecy, not so much a legend (unless history is repeating itself).



But then, if 6 is Kyurem, wouldn't that mean that Kyurem is king, and that it defeated one Dragon and was joined by the other?

I think King is a person, and that 6 could also be a name... not of a Pokemon, but of a person. Possibly the player? 3 would be Reshiram in White and Zekrom in Black, while 4 would be Reshiram in Black and Zekrom in White. I have no clue what 5 can be, it sounds like it's a plural word, and it has to be relating to Pokemon or something else that doesn't have an English counterpart. So maybe... it's relating to a specific group of Legendaries? The Dragon trio? Pokemon in general?

But 5 must be pokemon and 6 is a hint to B&W 2 king being kyurem!

*futachimaru*
7th July 2012, 9:18 PM
i did it on my 4th try. i got over 1million coins after that, so it was pretty much the end of the game since there was nothing left to do other than fill the pokedex

TheEliteEmpoleon
8th July 2012, 5:19 AM
That is pretty cool. My favorite myth is the one about the muskedeers.

Ash&Pikachu-Fan
10th July 2012, 10:15 PM
Does the ruins even have a background story?
All I used it for was for treasure hunting!

Mikey1701
11th July 2012, 11:25 AM
I was so dissapointed by the Abyssal Ruins. No legendary, no Pokemon at all, impossible to get around. Worst. area. ever

BCVM22
11th July 2012, 5:45 PM
No legendary

Who said there was going to be one?


impossible to get around

Not if you know what you're doing.


Worst. area. ever

Except for, you know, the important items it gives you, half of which can be sold for insane amounts of money.

Jacobthepokemonfreak
12th July 2012, 11:23 AM
Completely dissapointed now, i was sure in B/W that the ruins were linked to the regis! because of the fact you NEEDED to get to an event or accsess to R/S/E or to someone who has one of the above!

Though it still has an air of mystery to it..

maz1276
31st October 2012, 2:09 AM
i think i think get it here goes: so Kyurem defeated Reshiram/Zekrom respectively then absorbofused with the other dragon it didn't fight with e.g. joined king in a day. King callied three beings which either means the three names it goes by (White Kyurem Black Kyurem and Kyurem) or the three incarnate/therian forme genies or even the three musketeers to help the "king" made hope and future stopping the brothers battle with Reshiram/Zekrom. Finally it says the great king im guessing its either Kyurem or the king ruling over the ruins at the time if you have completed B/W 2 it sort of fits together. The three main historical buildings could be the birth places of some of the legendary pokemon whether its the genies or other legendary pokemon. hope this makes sence but i did think about it looking at most of the posts

Commander L. Halsti
31st October 2012, 1:14 PM
After reading the Abyssal ruins article on Bulbapedia, I found out the decoded cipher and text, and became interested in the meaning. Using this post from another forum (http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f323/underwater-ruins-deciphered-86617/index18.html#post4426889) as a basis, I've come up with the following solutions to at least parts of the text's meaning:

Possibility 1.

See the 8 dots in the last verse? What word logically fits in there, and would have 5 syllables in Japanese version?(in the thread from where the post is, there is a translation of the JP text, but with the matching number of dots according to their phonetics)

Harmonia fits best. So, the past king has a name. The text refers to a past series of events. Ghetsis claims the Harmonia lineage by taking the name as his surname. Falsely or truly, I do not know. The king might've been able to save some people from the flooding of the area, as some have said in their theories. Some were doomed though. They decided to write a chronicle of events, to praise the king's deeds. In code, so that no ordinary chump can get the treasure.

Now, the first 2 lines contain 5-letter words. To me, Truth and Ideal fit best. They are what the brothers and their respective dragons represent. So, Harmonia beat one of them, and so the other deemed his power too convincing to keep on fighting. Peace and harmony were established, and Unova was saved. Third verse may be completed with ˝human˝ or even ˝three˝, perhaps implying that help of the Musketeers in stopping the war was needed. Their Pokedex entries do mention a war.

Kyurem may indeed just be a life-deprived byproduct of the separation of the original Dragon, forced to eat humans to survive. I also view it as a frame of sorts, that needs to be filled with content. Like Reshiram or Zekrom. It may, by itself, represent empty dreams. Although, the theory of Kyurem acting as King(by maz1276) might work...but the Musketeers are a necessary component for this.

So, the B/W player just mimics certain actions of Harmony, but not all(obviously, he can't save anyone from waves, or beat the opposition alone). He is worthy enough to get access to the treasure, though. If this theory is correct, then the poem is one big moral about the importance of harmony and coexistence.

Full text with filled gaps:

King defeated Truth/Ideal alone
Ideal/Truth joined King in a day
King called human/three beings
King is hope and future
The great King Harmonia

Will do the Kami trio theory soon.

Commander L. Halsti
31st October 2012, 1:29 PM
Possibility 2.

This time, the 8 dots are actually Landorus. Although, Harmonia might fit in too, for a certain reason which I will explain.

Landorus watches over his brethren Tornadus and Thundurus, who are prone to fighting. While they fight, massive storms and waves could rage. Now, in the anime, it is said he has already broken them up once, in old times. Could they have sunk the area that is now Abyssal Ruins? Certainly easier than Reshiram and Zekrom could've done, with fire/electricity. It could have been that either Landorus himself was the King, or the King had his help in restoring harmony and peace. Again, he was unable to save the now-present undersea ruins. The part about the purpose of the code and who wrote it applies here too.

Landorus had to establish harmony, to save Unova. To do this, he had to beat Tornadus and Thundurus. And so, he is Harmonia too, in a way. Although, then the Truth/Ideal don't fit in the first 2 verses well. Genie may work, possibly even for the 3. verse.

Buuz
31st October 2012, 2:35 PM
Thanks for translating the riddles of Abyssal Ruins. Maybe now i can find my way through.

My favourite Unova myth is the one about the Legendary Hero, and how an ancient dragon pokémon split into Reshiram and Zekrom. Makes me wonder what that pokémon looks like.

dirkac
9th November 2012, 12:42 PM
This thread is still alive? ._.

Got my own little theory.

The king, is actually the so called Original Dragon.

King defeated Truth/Ideal alone it surpressed either one
Ideal/Truth joined King in a day The other joined
King called three beings It split into three, Kyurem, Zekrom, and Reshiram
King is hope and future Hope equaling the hope to keep nature intact, and future equalling technology
The great King *Insert name of OD here* Should be explanatory by now.

Farfetch'd, but it's my theory on it.


Also, I like the entire Relic Castle thing, on how it had Volcarona, Darmanitan and Sigilyph as guardians, and it almost seems prophesized to sink into the sand, as if it was destined to happen.

Got another theory thing.

The Relic Castle, Abyssal Ruins, and Dragon Spiral Tower were a set. Relic representing Land (as it is inside Land) and the Past, Abyssal representing Sea (It's underwater) and Future, and Dragon Spiral representing Sky (it's the tallest structure in Unova) and present. The three, past, present and future representing Reshiram, Kyurem and Zekrom respectively. Reshiram was brought to Relic Castle with his brother, Zekrom was broughtto the Abyssal Ruins with his brother, and Kyurem either A. Went to Dragon Spiral on it's own, or B. It came wioth a third brother.

After the war brought out, and the Swords of Justice stopped it, the three went back to their stones, and as a sign of peace, Zekrom was brought to Relic Castle, only later to be found in the Nacrene Museum. Reshiram was brought over to the Abyssal Ruins, which is where Team Plasma later found them (also explaining where they might have gotten the crown from the intro from). And Kyurem, either A. Fled to a place near the Giant Chasm, attempting to fly up, but then to crash into the ground, forming the Giant Chasm, or B. Came with the third brother, who brought it near there, but was unable to contain it in it's stone form (the God Stone), and the huge force that unleashed it caused the Giant Chasm.


There are my theories.

bentheechidna
22nd November 2012, 3:08 AM
I'd like to plug in my own theories here I posted on Tumblr back in July. I'll provide you guys with the links for the two posts.

http://bentheechidna.tumblr.com/post/25925252065/black-2-and-white-2-theorization
http://bentheechidna.tumblr.com/post/27403599995/more-black2white2-theorization-signal-boosting

For a summary of what I think on the Abyssal Ruins and the legend of the brothers:
The brothers originally ruled from Dragonspiral Tower when it was more than just a tower but their castle, and ruled with the original dragon, which came down as a comet near Lacunosa town. As they fought, they split their dragon in two, into Reshiram and Zekrom. The corpse, Kyurem, being without the energies that fueled it, returned to the only place it knew, the landing site of its comet. The brothers fought endlessly and abandoned Dragonspiral in favor of their own castles. The winner ruled from the ocean, the loser ruled from the desert. After the brother of the ocean won the fight, he laid his brother and brother's dragon to rest in his castle in the desert, to be discovered later by researchers and the dragon to be brought to the Nacrene museum. The winner went on to rule the Unova region from Dragonspiral tower, and laid his dragon to rest in Dragonspiral tower so another such conflict would never arise again.

I believe that the Kami trio were called upon to aid the winner in cleaning up the damaged land(Thundurus and Tornadus "rampaging") and Landorus was called upon to reseed any areas that had lost their vegetation. The anime also provided more clues that support this theory. The reveal glass is found in the Abyssal Ruins by Giovanni. The winner may have called down the Kami trio, and then used the reveal glass to change their form so they could more powerfully clean up the region, as well as be under the control of the winner.

I also believe that the Muskedeers were protecting pokemon during the brothers' war, and that they knew the castle very well as one of the two places they teach Keldeo Secret Sword is the Moor of Icirrus which is very near Dragonspiral.

Unkingdude25
22nd December 2012, 1:09 AM
My theory: N's ancestors had a royal bloodline and passed down a crown from generation to generation. So, N's great-great-great-great......grandfather was the king in the "prophecy" and had Kyogre or maybe some other legendary pokemon as his partner. (I think it's Kyogre because Kyogre is an ancient pokemon and the place is ancient). When the two princes had their fight and the single dragon beast split into two forms (Reshiram and Zekrom), that was way after the Abyssal Ruins era. I believe the single dragon pokemon was the one who joined N's ancestor and fought alongside them to battle other pokemon which probably went extinct. (Evil pokemon which went extinct). I also think that Kyurem comes later in the story and destroys the Abyssal palace, thus turning it into the Abyssal ruins. I also think the crown is the one which was supposed to be passed down from generation to generation but, was left there in the attack made by Kyurem. Then, in present times, Ghetsis gave N a fake crown which he forged himself to make N seem as if he was needed, when, really he was using him to rule the Unova region. Back to the past, after a couple years, the single dragon pokemon got into the trouble between the two princes and it split into two and wreaked havoc on the entire Unova region. Kyogre returned back to the Hoenn region and then some pokemon used the land to create Groudon, thus creating an enemy or equal to Kyogre. I also think all the legendary pokemon started out in the Unova region and then were separated into all the different regions, creating homes for them in the land and water. The Sacred Swords, the legendary Dog Trio, the Spirit Trio, Bird Trio, all came into existence afterwards. And then, the one who wrote the prophecy was........ either Lugia, Kyogre, or Slowking (strangely appears every time theres a prophecy).

BIG MIKE
22nd December 2012, 2:04 AM
My theory: N's ancestors had a royal bloodline and passed down a crown from generation to generation. So, N's great-great-great-great......grandfather was the king in the "prophecy" and had Kyogre or maybe some other legendary pokemon as his partner. (I think it's Kyogre because Kyogre is an ancient pokemon and the place is ancient). When the two princes had their fight and the single dragon beast split into two forms (Reshiram and Zekrom), that was way after the Abyssal Ruins era. I believe the single dragon pokemon was the one who joined N's ancestor and fought alongside them to battle other pokemon which probably went extinct. (Evil pokemon which went extinct). I also think that Kyurem comes later in the story and destroys the Abyssal palace, thus turning it into the Abyssal ruins. I also think the crown is the one which was supposed to be passed down from generation to generation but, was left there in the attack made by Kyurem. Then, in present times, Ghetsis gave N a fake crown which he forged himself to make N seem as if he was needed, when, really he was using him to rule the Unova region. Back to the past, after a couple years, the single dragon pokemon got into the trouble between the two princes and it split into two and wreaked havoc on the entire Unova region. Kyogre returned back to the Hoenn region and then some pokemon used the land to create Groudon, thus creating an enemy or equal to Kyogre. I also think all the legendary pokemon started out in the Unova region and then were separated into all the different regions, creating homes for them in the land and water. The Sacred Swords, the legendary Dog Trio, the Spirit Trio, Bird Trio, all came into existence afterwards. And then, the one who wrote the prophecy was........ either Lugia, Kyogre, or Slowking (strangely appears every time theres a prophecy).

Good theory you got there.

y2jswag
26th July 2013, 2:25 AM
I have a theory of my own...... ITS JUST A THEORY SO DON'T GET ON ME IF I PUT SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE!! Ok you already know the story of the original dragon pokemon if you dont just look it up because i'm not telling you it. XD So on the first floor you see all the arceus plates. Which most likely means Arceus is involed in this. This is where my theory comes in:

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.


Look at these national pokedex numbers.


Arceus 493 or Reshiram 643

Zekrom 644

Landorus 645

Kyurem 646


Now read it:



King defeated Arceus (Reshiram) alone.
Zekrom joined King in a day.
King called Landorus beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King Kyurem.

Theory two:

Most of us think the king is a pokemon but that may not be true. The place is called Abyssal Ruins right? What if it was a castle before? After all RUINS! Who would want to rule Unova from underwater (Pokemon has nothing to do with atlantis) Read this mythology about unova:




In mythology, Unova was created by uniting the warring peoples of the land by twin heroes. They used a single dragon sometime more than 2500 years ago. The brothers started to argue over their beliefs; the elder brother sought truth and the younger brother sought ideals. Their arguments split the single dragon into Reshiram, who sided with the older brother, and Zekrom, who sided with the younger brother. Since they were both born from the same dragon neither could defeat the other and the brothers declared that there was no right side. However, eventually their sons continued the fight and both the dragons started to battle again, destroying the Unova region with their fire and lightning powers before disappearing.

Sometime after the original dragon had been split into Reshiram and Zekrom, one of the two brothers and their respective dragon created the Relic Castle, which was the seat of a new civilization for people and Pokémon.

Also at an unknown point in the distant past, a civil war broke out in Unova that caused an intense forest fire. The many Pokémon that lived in the forest became trapped, though luckily the Swords of Justice came in to save them—Terrakion moved away boulders that blocked their escape route, Virizion used its nimble movements to protect Pokémon from looming flames, and Cobalion led the scared Pokémon out of the forest. These Pokémon would later become responsible for ending the war before disappearing into myths.

According to Lacunosa Town legend, a long time ago, a large meteor came from the sky containing a terrifying monster. It was said that at night, the monster would appear in the town along with the cold winds and take away humans and Pokémon to eat them. The residents of the town surrounded Lacunosa Town in a wall to keep the monster out, and a rule was then set on the town that forbade anyone from leaving at night and encouraged people to stay in their homes. While residents no longer believe this old story, they still stay inside of their houses at night to this day. The legendary monster, Kyurem, was really a remaining third Pokémon created when the primordial dragon had split into two.

A legend says Thundurus and Tornadus once raced across Unova, tearing up the lands with their respective weather-controlling powers, not caring about settlements and creatures in their path. Landorus, seeing the massive destruction the pair had brought to the region and its inhabitants, is said to have punished them so that they would never repeat their actions.

Meloetta once entertained the people of Unova with song and dance, but when sorrow filled the hearts of people, Meloetta lost this melody and its red shoes.


3,000 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, the Relic items were created.
2,500 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, the Relic Castle was flourishing and the Darmanitan in front of it went to sleep.
200 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, Village Bridge was constructed after the local river burst its banks, flooding the settlement that stood there previously.
100 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, the warehouses of Nacrene City were constructed.
100 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, Klink started appearing in Chargestone Cave.
50 years prior to the events of Pokémon Black and White, Elgyem was seen for the first time when it appeared from far in the desert.


Now with all of that I think the king is human. In the Dragon story there were two sons. In the anime the two sons are princes and the father is a king duh. So maybe once Reshiram and Zekrom parted Kyurem was made. The king found Kyurem and decided to rule with it to make up for losing his sons along with the dragon NOTE: He found kyurem before they were fight and started to rule with it during the fight. Then unova was destroyed turning the abyssal ruins well into ruins. Kyurem then ran to giant chasm, claiming the life's of people and pokemon. Thats when peoplee got sad and when meloetta lost its red shoes. Thats during the time people started fighting and when keldeo lost its parents. Genesect also has something to do with this as well i think. When you look at genesects entry on black and white it says it was alive 3,000 years ago when the relic items were created. Off topic but in the anime the king of another place had victini with him right? Could that be the desert resort where his kingdom was? Or prehapes kyurem was the original dragon pokemon and fought itself whether or not it should fight for truth or ideals. Then truth and ideals were taken out of him. After all kyurem is grey. Reshiram is white and Zekrom is black. You combine black and white grey= Kyurem. Pokemon grey on 3ds and mystery gift event anyone? There is no way yet to know but there will be in pokemon grey but we can keep making theorys to know more about all of this.