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Grei
13th June 2011, 3:49 PM
So... the Abyssal Ruins.

This locale, accessed by Dive in four specific spots in Undella Bay, is a labyrinth filled with ancient relics and artifacts dating back to over 3,000 years ago. Traversing this underwater location requires swiftness--for something forces you back to the surface after spending too much time in the ruins' passageways--as well as intuition and much foresight, so as to see what key items and abilities one must possess to unlock deeper floors in the ruins. In the deepest chamber, there is a room containing nothing but a crown--implying that it is perhaps a throne room, and that the ruins are the remains of an ancient sunken palace, castle, or kingdom.

Written on the walls and pillars within these ruins are various stanzas of ancient text that must be deciphered by the player.

(After traversing through the ruins and obtaining every artifact, I did not have the energy or patience to try deciphering this text. I found a translation of the Japanese text and decided to just read that instead.)

When put all together into a complete scripture, the text reads:



Listen to King's words.
Primes lead to truth.
King is brave.
King never loses hope.
King is kind.
King has a dream.
King is adventurous.
King accepts all.
King turns 2nd corner.
King turns 3rd corner.
King turns 5th corner.
King turns 7th corner.
Have the heart of King.
Here we praise King.
King's light shines.
King moves his people.
King acts with love.
King fought hatred.
No king gets lost.
Go on, brave king.

Life is gratitude.
Eating is receiving life.
Good or evil isn't all.
Do not be barbaric.
One must not waste.
All is precious.
Wars create tears.

King talks to all beings.
Saved all from waves.
King is hope for all.
Think act with love.

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

The final stanza contains four symbols (marked as the 3, 4, 5, and 6) that are not recognizable or translatable, indicating that these symbols perhaps denote the names of people or Pokemon. Various theories exist for which symbols mean what, if this text is a legend or a prophecy, and what significance it plays in conjunction with the current popular Unova legends, as well as in a future incarnate of Black and White (that is, Grey).

What do you make of all of this?
Is this text speaking of events that happened 3,000 years before the events of Black and White? Is this text foretelling of events that, 3,000 years ago, had not yet come to pass? Or neither? And what relation might these ruins have to the Dragonspiral Tower that lies north of Icirrus City, or to the Relic Castle, buried in the sands of the Resort Desert?

------------------------------------

In addition, this thread may also be used to discuss other Unova Legends, such as the myth concerning the twin brothers and Zekrom and Reshiram. Icirrus City is a big location for myths, as the Dragonspiral Tower, one of the oldest standing structures in Unova, looms over the city. However, various myths are found in other areas as well. Discuss each legend and how they all connect to form Unova's ancient history here!

Eternal Draconic
15th June 2011, 2:37 AM
WHY? WHY IS IT NOT 1, 2, 3, 4?

Just needed to know.

Also, How 'bout them brothers?

SnugNBouncy
15th June 2011, 2:41 AM
Woaaaah the Abyssal Ruins text is crazy!! I want answers. Pronto.

deoxysdude94
15th June 2011, 2:49 AM
Pokemon grey is going to involve the 3 genies, as well as Reshiram and Zekrom. That makes the 5 the being called upon. I think this is hinting the Sequel to black and white.

Mangoes
15th June 2011, 2:51 AM
The Abyssal Ruins are also in World of Warcraft. :)

EDIT: Nope, the Abysal Depths are in WoW, not any ruins.

Jb
15th June 2011, 3:02 AM
Well that's just peachy.

Lorde
15th June 2011, 4:21 AM
I'm surprised that people managed to translate the text from the Abyssal Ruins. I know that it happened a long time ago, but I'm still surprised that they did it quickly. Anyway, I don't really get what the translation is saying, but that's probably because some parts seem to be missing. If I knew what those numbers represented, I bet it would make things a little more clear. For now, my favorite myth is the Kyurem myth told in Lacunosa Town.

misterdarvus
15th June 2011, 4:52 AM
I've read that in bulbapedia forum, what kind of letter it use?

Palkiacatcher
15th June 2011, 5:01 AM
Man that's sick.

I almost went crazy when I found out you could dive in this game!

But was disappointed that you could only do it in one area of the game.

But went crazy again when I actually dove!

Shine
15th June 2011, 5:24 AM
just a bit of additions



Listen to King's words.
Primes lead to truth.
King is brave.
King never loses hope.
King is kind.
King has a dream.
King is adventurous.
King accepts all.
King turns 2nd corner.
King turns 3rd corner.
King turns 5th corner.
King turns 7th corner.
Have the heart of King.
Here we praise King.
King's light shines.
King moves his people.
King acts with love.
King fought hatred.
No king gets lost. <- the words that will appear on the 1st floor's middle pillar if you took more than 190 steps to reach the middle pillar.
Go on, brave king. <- the words that will appear on the 1st floor's middle pillar if you took less than 190 steps to reach the middle pillar. If you get this words, you will be granted access to the 2nd floor.

Life is gratitude.
Eating is receiving life.
Good or evil isn't all.
Do not be barbaric.
One must not waste.
All is precious.
Wars create tears.
Shine if agreed. <- the words that appears on the pillar on 2nd floor that allows access to the 3rd floor, this words refer to the move Flash you must use to unlock the path to the 3rd floor.


King talks to all beings.
Saved all from waves.
King is hope for all.
Think act with love.
Act strong if agreed. <- the words that appears on the pillar on 3rd floor that allows access to the 4th floor, this words refer to the move Strength you must use to unlock the path to the 4th floor.

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Mighty Arceus493
15th June 2011, 6:44 AM
I made it to the bottom and got the crown by luck. Too bad I spent all the money on TM's and items...But I looked at a map on the internet to get all the items I didn't collect.

King Lawliet
15th June 2011, 2:11 PM
That was actually quite interesting to read, I eagerly await the next instalment that expands on these myths and legends

srullic
15th June 2011, 5:00 PM
I heard that in the last text the untranslatable symbols are switched between each version. That might indicate that they are talking about version exclusive pokemon (resh and zek oviously).
I'll be really disappointed if they do nothing with this in the 3rd version. Mabye you need to go to Undella before E4 and explore the ruins? (kyurem is in giant chasm, which is in northeast unova, so we might need to go there anyway)
Also the crown you get in the last room looks like the crown you see when Ghetsis crowns N.
And it's annoying that you can't translate the text there. I loved reading unown script. I wonder how the japanese mamaged to translate it.

Wardek
15th June 2011, 5:25 PM
I always thought that Kyurem was there until i read Bulbapedia. =P

Kameinu
15th June 2011, 7:53 PM
I've lurked around the Bulbagarden thread. http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f323/underwater-ruins-deciphered-86617/ They have some very interesting theories going around.

I personally view this writings as a prophecy. Mostly one that fortells the events in the game, but maybe also fortold for the absolute ending for the war of the brothers/their sons.

What I find most interesting, and what let me to consider this prophecy to link to the old war is this.

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Zekrom and Reshiram are 3 and 4, interchangeable in the game. And 6 is believed by some to be Kyurem, since 5 would be Landorous if we go by dex order.

King deafeats Zekrom/Reshiram with Kyurem, but in the process the other dragon (and it's human partner hero brother/cousin) joins King.

If I continue on with this theory, "Primes lead to Truth" would make me think Reshiram and it's human joined King, thus King and Kyurem defeat Zekrom.



But that's just crazy theories and may very well be wrong. xD



Looking forward to seeing this discussed further here.

Grei
15th June 2011, 8:14 PM
I heard that in the last text the untranslatable symbols are switched between each version. That might indicate that they are talking about version exclusive pokemon (resh and zek oviously).

Or, possibly, Tornadus and Thundurus.


And it's annoying that you can't translate the text there. I loved reading unown script. I wonder how the japanese mamaged to translate it.

Me too. :/ It apparently was translated within a week of the game being released.


I've lurked around the Bulbagarden thread. http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f323/underwater-ruins-deciphered-86617/ They have some very interesting theories going around.

I personally view this writings as a prophecy. Mostly one that fortells the events in the game, but maybe also fortold for the absolute ending for the war of the brothers/their sons.

This is what I'm thinking, that it's a prophecy, not so much a legend (unless history is repeating itself).


What I find most interesting, and what let me to consider this prophecy to link to the old war is this.

King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Zekrom and Reshiram are 3 and 4, interchangeable in the game. And 6 is believed by some to be Kyurem, since 5 would be Landorous if we go by dex order.

King deafeats Zekrom/Reshiram with Kyurem, but in the process the other dragon (and it's human partner hero brother/cousin) joins King.

If I continue on with this theory, "Primes lead to Truth" would make me think Reshiram and it's human joined King, thus King and Kyurem defeat Zekrom.

But then, if 6 is Kyurem, wouldn't that mean that Kyurem is king, and that it defeated one Dragon and was joined by the other?

I think King is a person, and that 6 could also be a name... not of a Pokemon, but of a person. Possibly the player? 3 would be Reshiram in White and Zekrom in Black, while 4 would be Reshiram in Black and Zekrom in White. I have no clue what 5 can be, it sounds like it's a plural word, and it has to be relating to Pokemon or something else that doesn't have an English counterpart. So maybe... it's relating to a specific group of Legendaries? The Dragon trio? Pokemon in general?

Pucca_ness
15th June 2011, 8:31 PM
From looking at that I think the king refers to the player as the door to the second floor says "Go on Brave king" if you get there in time, of course you can then "go on" up to the second floor therefore implying that your are the king.

If it is the crown put on N then perhaps it was a place to store the crown and test N or ther person to replace him to see if they are worthy? Makes no sense if it is N since he would already have the crown.

In all honesty I just thought it was a temple that sunk thousands of years ago and the goods inside were the treasures the civilisation left behind. Seems simple enough, temples are known in media and myth to have booby traps, the torrent could just be one of those. The people who left it could have caused it to sink and set the torrent to make sure a worthy person got the treasure.

When I first went in I thought there was a big Pokemon at the bottom/top due to the rumbling but as i'd already pretty much memorised the 5th gen dex I couldn't think what one it could be, then I was flushed out.

I do love the money we get from the items though =D That'll keep me going for a while.

Another thought - Possible Keldeo location in later events/games? It is part water.

Unless we already know how to get Keldeo when it comes around.

Also the plates presence makes me think perhaps something to do with Arceus?
But really where are you supposed to get the plates if they're not in some obscure temple under the sea?

GalladeX
15th June 2011, 9:38 PM
http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11
Those are the four symbols corresponding to 3/4/5/6.

I actually had this theory a while back...it crosses into anime territory but why not?:


Let's be crazy and say the Ruins are part of the Michina Ruins. (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Michina_Town)


King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

3 bears some resemblance to a comet (the circles are the core and the two lines are the tail) like the ones Arceus destroyed to save Michina.

In all seriousness, 4 looks like breasts. Breasts = human. Human = Damos. Damos joined Arceus so they could give life back to Michina.

Two possibilities for number 5:

1. The King could reference Marcus, and the fish-shape could represent the Pokemon and the silver water he used to kill Arceus, with the little hook shape being the Thunderbolt.
2. The King is Arceus. The fish could simply reference Pisces, as in the duo of Dialga and Palkia, and the hook could reference Giratina's claw.

(I think number 2 is more likely)

6 could mean anything, such as Arceus himself. However, it also looks like Marcus's headband.

And before all that stuff, we have lines about 'receiving life' and such.

It isn't very likely, but...yeah. New Arceus event, anyone?

Excitable Boy
15th June 2011, 9:44 PM
WHY? WHY IS IT NOT 1, 2, 3, 4?

Just needed to know.

2, 3, 5, and 7 are primes. Primes lead to truth.


Another thought - Possible Keldeo location in later events/games? It is part water.

No. No. No.

Just no.

Robertos0511
15th June 2011, 9:56 PM
2, 3, 5, and 7 are primes. Primes lead to truth.

Actually it's 2,3,5 and 6.

6 is not a prime.

Excitable Boy
15th June 2011, 9:57 PM
Actually it's 2,3,5 and 6.

6 is not a prime.

Read it again.

Battlestar
16th June 2011, 7:03 AM
Wow this is mind boggling. Amazing I really hope we learn what it means. Also I bet this is connected to the locations. Maybe in nova there were city-states that had war such as relic caste. It also is an ancient civilization.

~Light
16th June 2011, 7:36 AM
I never actually cared about the text there xD

But I think they are going to do something with this in the 3rd game

Hojinisabeast22
17th June 2011, 11:25 PM
What I think that will happen is that...
In pokemon Grey the 3 Genies will help you to get to Zekrom and Reshiram who are being raised by N when suddenly Kyurem Drops in and Drags them into the Giant Chasm. You then have to go there to save the world. Nifty huh?

Ememew
18th June 2011, 12:54 AM
Tips for anyone who wants to "translate" the characters in the Abyssal Ruins without looking them up somewhere: the runes in the ruins are somewhat hard to translate since

1) they're read from right to left, even in the English version of the games, and contain no spaces in the phrases and

2) the symbols "rotate," so the character for "e" on the first floor becomes the character for "d" on the second, "c" on the third, and "b" on the fourth. (one symbol, which would be "z" on the first floor, which becomes "y" "x" and "w" as you ascend, doesn't ever appear at all).

There are also 4 numbers that appear only on the first floor (2, 3, 5, and 7) and 4 "untranslated" symbols on the fourth floor.

Finally, as "king" is often repeated, if you look for the same 4 runes that appear next to each other in the same order often, you might want to substitute "king" in for those (or "gnik" if you are reading left to right and are planning on turning the phrase around after substituting the letters).

About the 4 4th floor only runes, I wonder if they might relate to the Musketeer Quartet? I know that doesn't really fit with some symbols changing their locations between versions, as there is nothing version exclusive about the quartet, but those three are the only legendary group in B/W that comes in a set of 4 rather than 3 (although one has yet to become available). Alternatively, it may refer to the version exclusive legendaries (for the ones that swap between versions - "king defeated ? alone," and "? joined king in a day"), a common theory. Or they may even be the names of human characters from Unova's past rather than specific Pokemon ("the great king ?" in particular may refer to the name of a person rather than a Pokemon, so I don't see why the others couldn't as well).

EDIT: Maybe in the phrase "king called ? beings" the symbol refers to "Pokemon" (meaning the king called Pokemon "beings:" equal to humans, as opposed to "creatures" or "animals". That's about the only thing that makes sense to me with "beings" being plural.

I fully expect more details of the ruins to become relevant to the 3rd Game's storyline, though, so whatever they mean, we'll probably know by the first few weeks of the release of the third game.

Excitable Boy
18th June 2011, 1:14 AM
The thing about the Musketeers is that it's implied that they're equal (or at least Terrakion and Virizion). Considering that each of those symbols does different things, I doubt that they're the Musketeers.

Ememew
18th June 2011, 2:03 AM
2, 3, 5, and 7 are primes. Primes lead to truth.

I think Eternal Draconic may have been referring to the untranslated symbols being referred to as 3, 4, 5, and 6 rather than 1, 2, 3, and 4. http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11 rather than to the use of the "primes" (2, 3, 5, and 7). Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, any ideas as to which number is "5" and which is "7" on the first floor? They both end with "th" unlike "2nd" and "3rd" so I'm not sure which is which. Though, now that I think about it, this is probably the answer to Eternal Draconic's question about why the untranslated markings are referred to as symbols "3" "4" "5" and "6" - because "1" and "2" denote the numbers 5 and 7 (figured to be either one or the other, so not marked by it in the quoted text in the first post).

lucario44444444
24th June 2011, 11:23 PM
The abssayl ruins is so compicted!!!

Robertos0511
25th June 2011, 8:59 PM
What if it was referring to the musketeer trio:

King defeated ③ alone. <<< Cobalion defeated humans alone?

④ joined King in a day.<<< Keldeo joined king in a day?

King called ⑤ beings.<<< King called 2 beings? (Viziron + Terrakion?)

King is hope and future.

The great King ⑥.<<< The great king Cobalion?

GalladeX
25th June 2011, 9:11 PM
What if it was referring to the musketeer trio:

King defeated ③ alone. <<< Cobalion defeated humans alone?

④ joined King in a day.<<< Keldeo joined king in a day?

King called ⑤ beings.<<< King called 2 beings? (Viziron + Terrakion?)

King is hope and future.

The great King ⑥.<<< The great king Cobalion?

It makes some sense, but you gotta wonder why someone would build a temple to a Steel/Fighting-type under the ocean.

Robertos0511
25th June 2011, 9:21 PM
How do you know it wasn't built above the ocean then sank?

Blazing Groudon
25th June 2011, 10:39 PM
It seems that strange texts are becoming a trend in the games:

Kanto: Pokemon Mansion journals.
Johto: Ruins of Alph.
Hoenn: Sealed Chamber.
Sinnoh: Solaceon Ruins/Old Chateau notebook.
Unova: Undersea Ruins.

As for theories, I think it's simple when approached logically.

King = Mudkip

Lorde
25th June 2011, 10:50 PM
How do you know it wasn't built above the ocean then sank?

That might have happened. It would've been much easier to build a temple on land than underwater, so it's very possible that something happened and the temple sank.


It seems that strange texts are becoming a trend in the games:

Kanto: Pokemon Mansion journals.
Johto: Ruins of Alph.
Hoenn: Sealed Chamber.
Sinnoh: Solaceon Ruins/Old Chateau notebook.
Unova: Undersea Ruins.

I like the text at the Abyssal Ruins a lot more, though. It took a while for people to decipher it, so I'm sure a lot of work was put into making the Abyssal Ruins as mysterious as possible. I still haven't made it too far into the Abyssal Ruins, but I'm glad that it exists, since there's a story to be told there.

Panbobo
25th June 2011, 11:11 PM
What if it was referring to the musketeer trio:

King defeated ③ alone. <<< Cobalion defeated humans alone?

④ joined King in a day.<<< Keldeo joined king in a day?

King called ⑤ beings.<<< King called 2 beings? (Viziron + Terrakion?)

King is hope and future.

The great King ⑥.<<< The great king Cobalion?

Swap both and it makes sense, because Keldeo Dex says that Musketeers saved him, so King should've called Vizi and Terra before Keldeo joining. That of course, renders said interpretation wrong.

My thoughs so far:

King defeated ③ alone. <- King defeated Torna/Thundu alone
④ joined King in a day. <- Thundu/Torna joined King in a day
King called ⑤ beings. <- King called All beings
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥ <- The great King Landorus
Of course it's just my fan wank, but i just want the Genie trio to get more involved into the story =P

Geekachu
26th June 2011, 1:23 AM
I thought that it could've been a prophecy of somesort, like:


King defeated ③ (Reshiram/Zekrom) alone
④ (Zekrom/Reshiram) joined King in a day
King called ⑤ (Simply three? Or draconic?) beings
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥ (Player)

It seemed like a prophecy to me, however the fact that it's written in past tense is even more perplexing. I was wondering weather in the original Unova story of the two brothers, that there was an unknown third brother, i.e. a parallel of the player.

It could always be a documentation of history, however it could also have qualities of a prophecy if history is repeating itself. I dunno, but it's really intriguing.

Radlin
26th June 2011, 2:52 AM
I think I got all the items in the Abyssal Ruins. I still need to get the Splash and Draco Plate on Route 13, I think.

IatosHaunted
26th June 2011, 6:09 AM
Interesting theories. I love that Game Freak gave us something to look into this much, its really cool.

This whole thing brings to mind the evidence of other ancient civilizations in Unova, 3 in all. There's the Abyssal ruins, presumably a sunken empire. There was some kind of civilization in the desert, proven by both the ruins and Sigilyph's Pokedex description as a protector of an old civilization. Finally, there is evidence of an ancient civilization built in and around Dragonspiral Tower. According to the Pokedex, Golett and Golurk were created by humans as protectors of the people or that civilization. I wonder if these three peoples were at war, and possibly destroyed each other?

lucario44444444
26th June 2011, 6:13 AM
I think I got all the items in the Abyssal Ruins. I still need to get the Splash and Draco Plate on Route 13, I think.

You get those from a girl in a random house

Guywhoiam
26th June 2011, 8:03 AM
Interesting theories. I love that Game Freak gave us something to look into this much, its really cool.

This whole thing brings to mind the evidence of other ancient civilizations in Unova, 3 in all. There's the Abyssal ruins, presumably a sunken empire. There was some kind of civilization in the desert, proven by both the ruins and Sigilyph's Pokedex description as a protector of an old civilization. Finally, there is evidence of an ancient civilization built in and around Dragonspiral Tower. According to the Pokedex, Golett and Golurk were created by humans as protectors of the people or that civilization. I wonder if these three peoples were at war, and possibly destroyed each other?

I do not remember the legend that was told, but didn't it mention something about a war in Unova that the brothers stopped?

Kameinu
26th June 2011, 8:25 AM
Who says they all weren't the part of one big empire? Remember there's also the two brothers. And there'd be a potential third player in all this if we take into consideration this supposed King.

Also, didn't those writings mention something of a wave? It could be a wave that sunk the underwater ruins.

Bushido Bob
26th June 2011, 6:10 PM
King defeated Zekrom/Reshiram alone.
Zekrom/Reshiram joined King in a day.
King called Pokemon beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King, N.

The king being someone like N is incredibly obvious considering the Relic Crown is identical to the one he wears in the opening cutscene, and the king is said to "speak to all beings."

⑤ most likely refers to Pokemon as a whole. The symbol resembles a fish and hook, which reflects how Pokemon were just considered no better than food prior to Ancient!N declaring them to be beings like humans.

Kameinu
26th June 2011, 7:58 PM
I don't know if the King is N exactly. Atleast when reffering to the past. If we refer to the present timeline I doubt the King is N, it feels more like it's Hilbert.


But I'm a fan of the thoery that the King is an ancestor of N or a past life.

Geekachu
26th June 2011, 8:09 PM
The king being someone like N is incredibly obvious considering the Relic Crown is identical to the one he wears in the opening cutscene, and the king is said to "speak to all beings."

But if the king was N then the first two sentences of your analogy make no sense. In the end of the game, N never defeated Reshiram/Zekrom, but he was defeated by them

Bushido Bob
26th June 2011, 8:36 PM
But if the king was N then the first two sentences of your analogy make no sense. In the end of the game, N never defeated Reshiram/Zekrom, but he was defeated by them

Then that could just mean that back then the N-like person won and the player is settling the score in the present.

HarvestKing22
27th June 2011, 3:38 PM
If we think about the script as a whole, though, we realize that it's incredibly vague. Which pokemon, of the two, is the one that is defeated? Which one chose to follow the King? Remember, early on in the game, when Ghetsis said something about a prophecy....a vague one? In my opinion, this is that prophecy. Ghetsis, and N, both thought that this prophecy was talking about N. But then N loses to the main player; based on which version was played, either Reshiram or Zekrom JOINED the played, and the player DEFEATED the other dragon, owned by N.

As for the symbols, I think:
3 refers to N
4 refers to BOTH Reshiram AND Zekrom, which is why the prophecy was vague
5 and 6 are tricky, I have no clue what they could even begin to mean....

Blackjack the Titan
27th June 2011, 4:17 PM
Was the Abyssal Ruins the Kingdom for the guy who used the Dragon that was Zekrom and Reshiram before it split up?

And does the Relic Castle have any connection with the Abyssal Ruins?

SphealsFTW
27th June 2011, 4:22 PM
This is a lot more confusing than the whole Regi-trio thing.

Kameinu
27th June 2011, 6:39 PM
Was the Abyssal Ruins the Kingdom for the guy who used the Dragon that was Zekrom and Reshiram before it split up?

And does the Relic Castle have any connection with the Abyssal Ruins?
They where two guys who used the one dragon and then it split to please both guys.

As I've mentioned. It's possible Abyssal Ruins and Relic castle and whatever else are all part of the same empire/kingdom. But could very well be seperate. We have ingame mention of the two brothers fighting each other, so factions where most likely created and the kingdom most likely split. And a third part is possible is we consider the possible King mentioned in the Abyssal writings.

The Eleventh
27th June 2011, 7:57 PM
King defeated Zekrom/Reshiram alone.
Zekrom/Reshiram joined King in a day.
King called Pokemon beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King, N.

The king being someone like N is incredibly obvious considering the Relic Crown is identical to the one he wears in the opening cutscene, and the king is said to "speak to all beings."

⑤ most likely refers to Pokemon as a whole. The symbol resembles a fish and hook, which reflects how Pokemon were just considered no better than food prior to Ancient!N declaring them to be beings like humans.
Ooh. I like this theory the most. ⑤ can't be referring to just one Pokémon as (for example) "Kyurem beings" wouldn't make sense. That's why I like yours the most. And the N theory is nice, and plausible.

I really like Unova's legends, as they're not simple. AT ALL. They're incredibly difficult to decipher, which I like, as previous regions had much more straight-forward stories. I'm awaiting Grey with high hopes for answers.

Ememew
27th June 2011, 9:21 PM
Interesting theories. I love that Game Freak gave us something to look into this much, its really cool.

This whole thing brings to mind the evidence of other ancient civilizations in Unova, 3 in all. There's the Abyssal ruins, presumably a sunken empire. There was some kind of civilization in the desert, proven by both the ruins and Sigilyph's Pokedex description as a protector of an old civilization. Finally, there is evidence of an ancient civilization built in and around Dragonspiral Tower. According to the Pokedex, Golett and Golurk were created by humans as protectors of the people or that civilization. I wonder if these three peoples were at war, and possibly destroyed each other?

I'm not sure that the Abyssal Ruins and the Relic Castle are related (spoiled in case people want to find out for themselves in-game): The Abyssal Ruins, according to the text associated with the items found there, are ruins of a 3,000 year old civilization. When visiting the Relic Castle in the post-game, Professor Juniper tells you that the Darmanitan outside the Castle's ruins have been dormant there for 2,500 years when she gives you the RageCandyBar to wake them. So unless the Darmanitan settled outside the castle 500 years after it was empty or if the civilization's main center remained functioning for 500 years after the other part of it fell, then they're not the same civilization. If they were at war and destroyed each other, as you suggested, they wouldn't have wiped each other out at the same time. The Castle civilization could have wiped out the Abyssal Ruins civilization 500 years before it fell itself, though. Does anything in-game give a hint as to the age of DragonSpiral Tower?
And to the people wondering why it would be built underwater, an NPC in the area states that the ruins sank, meaning they were built above the water.

Grei
27th June 2011, 9:30 PM
I'm not sure that the Abyssal Ruins and the Relic Castle are related (spoiled in case people want to find out for themselves in-game): The Abyssal Ruins, according to the text associated with the items found there, are ruins of a 3,000 year old civilization. When visiting the Relic Castle in the post-game, Professor Juniper tells you that the Darmanitan outside the Castle's ruins have been dormant there for 2,500 years when she gives you the RageCandyBar to wake them. So unless the Darmanitan settled outside the castle 500 years after it was empty or if the civilization's main center remained functioning for 500 years after the other part of it fell, then they're not the same civilization. If they were at war and destroyed each other, as you suggested, they wouldn't have wiped each other out at the same time. The Castle civilization could have wiped out the Abyssal Ruins civilization 500 years before it fell itself, though. Does anything in-game give a hint as to the age of DragonSpiral Tower?
And to the people wondering why it would be built underwater, an NPC in the area states that the ruins sank, meaning they were built above the water.

We don't have an exact age, Cedric just says that the Dragonspiral Tower is the oldest building in Unova, and existed "before Unova was founded."


"OK. Give this story a listen. Dragonspiral Tower is said to be the Unova region's oldest building. Stories say it's the place where legendary Pokémon came to life or where they remain in deep slumber. I know it's just past Icirrus City, but that's all I know about it. That's all anyone knows, because no one has ever been inside. My daughter has wanted to investigate that tower for a long time. "What! There's something I don't know?!" That kind of feeling is pure adventure. And I'm not too old for some adventuring. Away I go to have a look at Dragonspiral Tower! Catch you later!"


"That building serenely towering over everything is Dragonspiral Tower. From far in the past, before Unova was founded, it still stands tall today. On the top floor, so it's been told, the legendary Pokémon is waiting for a person seeking [the truth/ideals] to appear."


"Ha! I guess you would be curious. Well, I'll explain briefly. Dragonspiral Tower has stood tall since long before Unova was founded. On the top floor, the legendary Dragon-type Pokémon waits for a person pursuing idealsB/seeking truthW to appear... That's what it said. Are you going to go after Team Plasma like your friend did? It's admirable of you to join the fight against Team Plasma, but it's risky, too."

I wouldn't think it'd be too far of a stretch to think it was related to the Relic Castle or to the Abyssal Ruins. Anyone else notice how strange it is that the Dragonspiral Tower, the Relic Castle, and the Underwater Ruins are all very far away from one another?

Ememew
27th June 2011, 10:15 PM
Ah, so it's "the oldest building" without a specific time frame. Doesn't narrow it down much, does it?

King defeated Zekrom/Reshiram alone.
Zekrom/Reshiram joined King in a day.
King called Pokemon beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King, N.

The king being someone like N is incredibly obvious considering the Relic Crown is identical to the one he wears in the opening cutscene, and the king is said to "speak to all beings."

⑤ most likely refers to Pokemon as a whole. The symbol resembles a fish and hook, which reflects how Pokemon were just considered no better than food prior to Ancient!N declaring them to be beings like humans.

Pretty much my idea for ⑤, too (see previous page, it's in a spoiler box, though). Though I guessed that because of "beings" being plural rather than the shape of the symbol. Good to see that someone else thinks "Pokemon" would make sense there, though. Hopefully we'll find out by the release of the third game what these runes are referring to. I hope they play a role in-game instead of just being there for the sake of being there.

As for "King N," we already know what the symbol for the letter "N" looks like on the fourth floor (though the symbol could refer to his full name, I suppose). I'd prefer if it referred to one of N's ancestors or something, who he inherited his ability to speak with Pokemon from as opposed to being N himself. I don't know, I think I'd just prefer more insight into Unova's past than a prophecy that tells us what we already saw from beating N to get to the Ruins.


EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I wonder if I'm putting WAY too much thought into a Pokemon game the Abyssal Ruins are unrelated to the founding of Unova (meaning the symbols likely aren't Reshiram and Zekrom). I mean, Unova was founded by twin brothers (two), while the runes refer to a King (singular). Hmmm . . .

Eternal Draconic
27th June 2011, 11:31 PM
^ I think that 6 refers to their father, or else Kyurem.

Blackjack the Titan
27th June 2011, 11:35 PM
Abyssal Ruins, Relic Castle, and Dragonspirla Tower May have a connection to each other.
I hope the 3rd game expands on those three ancient structures.

Grei
28th June 2011, 12:24 AM
Ah, so it's "the oldest building" without a specific time frame. Doesn't narrow it down much, does it?

It does a little bit. It tells us that Dragonspiral Tower was around for when the Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins were built and used. We just don't know if it was build simultaneously or not.

Actually... now that I think about it, maybe it doesn't narrow it down.

Cedric says:

From far in the past, before Unova was founded, it still stands tall today.

He essentially says that the Dragonspiral Tower is the oldest standing building in Unova. It's possible, then, that he does not consider the Relic Castle or the Abyssal Ruins to be "standing." For all we know, he just meant that Dragonspiral Tower is the oldest building that hasn't become hidden or destroyed. Meaning that Dragonspiral Tower could really be younger than the Abyssal Ruins or the Relic Castle.

MajinYoshi
28th June 2011, 4:31 PM
Getting those plates and artifacts was annoying. So was not knowing what the text said!

Geekachu
28th June 2011, 4:59 PM
Anyone else notice how strange it is that the Dragonspiral Tower, the Relic Castle, and the Underwater Ruins are all very far away from one another?

I noticed that. It's also interesting that the Relic Castle was eventually covered in sand and the Abyssal 'Castle' was eventually submerged in water, whilst the Dragonspiral Tower remains standing. I was wondering whether each refers to, or honours, one of the Tao Trio. All three seem to have important links to the Unova Legends of the brothers, so they could easily be linked.

HarvestKing22
28th June 2011, 5:18 PM
From Grei:

The Abyssal Ruins, according to the text associated with the items found there, are ruins of a 3,000 year old civilization. When visiting the Relic Castle in the post-game, Professor Juniper tells you that the Darmanitan outside the Castle's ruins have been dormant there for 2,500 years when she gives you the RageCandyBar to wake them. So unless the Darmanitan settled outside the castle 500 years after it was empty or if the civilization's main center remained functioning for 500 years after the other part of it fell, then they're not the same civilization. If they were at war and destroyed each other, as you suggested, they wouldn't have wiped each other out at the same time. The Castle civilization could have wiped out the Abyssal Ruins civilization 500 years before it fell itself, though. Does anything in-game give a hint as to the age of DragonSpiral Tower?

Is it possible that the Darmanitan simply went dormant as the Castle civilization collapsed, and they guard the RUINS, not the civilization itself. It therefore stands to reason that they could have been built at the same time, and then one collapsed before the other, either as a result of fighting, or outside causes.
Also, I think we need to think about the twins as well. If there are two hidden civilizations, and two twins, wouldn't it make sense that one controlled one kingdom, while the other controlled the other kingdom. THEN, the war that was fought between them wiped out one, then the other kingdom, Abyssal, then Castle.
Dragonspiral does throw all of these theories for a spin (no pun intended). There's got to be more about it that nobody has found yet, somewhere...

Eternal Draconic
28th June 2011, 9:15 PM
Perhaps, the ruins hold a prophecy, that involves the player character.

3, being R/Z.
4, being the other one.
5, not quite sure...
6, being the PC.

Blackjack the Titan
29th June 2011, 3:00 AM
What does the Tao Trio have to do with the hidden ruins?
I think that the aura in Dragonspiral that wakes up R/Z kept the tower standing, while Abbysal Ruins and Relic Castle had the aura absent.

AzukanAsimbu
29th June 2011, 3:36 AM
Well The King could refer to you or N, most likely N, because he was given the crown in the beginning, but then how did the crown get to the bottom of the sea?

the N you defeat is a reincarnation of a past N.

The opening cutscene is of the past N.

And remember how Ghetsis split into 2 people at the Dreamyard?

Heres a theory. Ghetsis can send one side/color of him through time. So Ghetsis gave the past N the crown, setting up the prophecy for the present N.

Just a thought

Dragonshock
29th June 2011, 4:58 AM
To the poster above, Ghetsis' 2 images were merely Musharna's doing.

I'd like to point out that Relic Castle is built on a desert, Dragonspiral Tower reaches to the skies and Abyssal Ruins lies on the sea, perhaps having a connection of some sort.

SnugNBouncy
29th June 2011, 5:04 AM
To the poster above, Ghetsis' 2 images were merely Musharna's doing.

I'd like to point out that Relic Castle is built on a desert, Dragonspiral Tower reaches to the skies and Abyssal Ruins lies on the sea, perhaps having a connection of some sort.

maybe theres a hidden groudon in relic castle, a rayquaza in dragonspiral tower, and a kyogre in the abyssal ruins :)

Dragonshock
29th June 2011, 5:15 AM
Also, I'm thinking Cynthia might also have something to do with the mystery of Abyssal Ruins. A swimmer on Undella Bay mentioned that Cynthia likes to dive when no one's around; maybe she's investigating something about the ruins and might reveal something in the 3rd game.

Skarm-Flier
29th June 2011, 5:37 AM
As soon as I dive down I get sucked back up ! That place is rip off !

pikachu5067
9th July 2011, 12:04 AM
Read it again.

Actually, it DOES say 2356, and 6 IS NOT a prime.

Mr. pokedude
9th July 2011, 3:53 AM
maybe theres a hidden groudon in relic castle, a rayquaza in dragonspiral tower, and a kyogre in the abyssal ruins :)
I like your thinking, but I doubt this very much. But there is the smallest of possibilities that it may have something to do with that, maybe something else. As already stated, Relic Castle was eventually buried in sand, Abyssal Ruins sunk ( most likely) to the bottom of the sea, and Dragon Spiral is still standing. It's possible that there was a war between the three, this may mean that Abyssal, having no "special made" pokemon of it's own, was defeated. Then, Relic Castle had Sigilyph while Dragon Spiral had Golurk. Ghost defeats Psychic, Leading most likely to the defeat of Relic Castle. This means Dragon Spiral won that war. Considering that Reshiram or Zekrom is found by N at the top, they made of had help from the legendary beasts. This goes against legend of them stopping the war, but as we know, legends may change after a while. But still, Groudon is the ground maker, which can be turned to sand, hence Relic Castle. Kyogre is like the king of the ocean, hence Abyssal ruins, ( this also may be given a hint to who " king" is). And finally Rayquaza, king of the skies, hence Dragon Spiral Tower, which stands tall in the sky.




Also, I'm thinking Cynthia might also have something to do with the mystery of Abyssal Ruins. A swimmer on Undella Bay mentioned that Cynthia likes to dive when no one's around; maybe she's investigating something about the ruins and might reveal something in the 3rd game.
Very possible, I for one am starting to wonder about Cynthia, for instance. Why is it Cynthia always appears where the legends are? Sure maybe she likes investigating them, but she knew exactly how to operate the Arceus event in HG/SS. Also, as Dragonshock stated, a swimmer states that she dives down when no one is looking. It wouldn't surprise me if she already knows or isn't telling us something.


One more thing, the Ruins are indeed of ancient times, so the torrent must be a booby trap. But despite the torrent, isn't it a little odd that there are NO pokemon around? Under the water that is, because the pokemon you run into/ fish for, are near the surface most likely. So I suspect that something else was or is down there. Scaring all the pokemon away, it might not be that of a Unova pokemon. Perhaps it is a Kyogre, maybe it's arceus ( i highly doubt it), it's also true that the landorous, thunderous and stormadous aswell as cobalion, virizion and terrakion and keldeo. They all have not had much of a backstory, including genesect and melottia aswell. I doubt the theory, but it may be genesect. Despite being a steel type, it has the disc's which may be used for electric attacks, ( super effective against water types) and it also happens to be a bug type ( also super effective against water types). + It looks scary =P.:649:

projectaumaan
9th July 2011, 4:16 AM
Perhaps it is a Kyogre, maybe it's arceus ( i highly doubt it), it's also true that the landorous, thunderous and stormadous aswell as cobalion, virizion and terrakion and keldeo. They all have not had much of a backstory, including genesect and melottia aswell. I doubt the theory, but it may be genesect.
The bold part makes no sense, and mentions a nonexistent Pokémon.


it also happens to be a bug type ( also super effective against water types)
No, it isn't.

I've got nothing against you (and am not trying to start anything), but perhaps try to make posts so everyone can get what you're trying to say. Nobody's perfect, though. Heck, I make grammatical mistakes often (especially online), and have made my fair share of tl;dr posts. This one was just a little hard to understand at certain spots. =/

And so this stays on topic: I'm sure at least part of the mystery will be revealed in the third game. My money is on the Ruins being related to N's ancestors. That, and/or perhaps involving one or more legends.

Mr. pokedude
9th July 2011, 4:32 AM
The bold part makes no sense, and mentions a nonexistent Pokémon.
i meant drive not disc, more to the point, perhaps I was slightly unclear near the end, I only just woke up. which is the nonexistent pokemon? If your talking about Meloetta I assure you I misspelt it.

No, it isn't.

I've got nothing against you (and am not trying to start anything), but perhaps try to make posts so everyone can get what you're trying to say. Nobody's perfect, though. Heck, I make grammatical mistakes often (especially online), and have made my fair share of tl;dr posts. This one was just a little hard to understand at certain spots. =/
I understand, no war here anyway, what do you mean? Genesect is indeed a bug + steel type. And if you mean bug is super effective against water, then maybe it isn't. ( I believe it is, but at the same time don't because I blast every water type apart with bug moves).
And so this stays on topic: I'm sure at least part of the mystery will be revealed in the third game. My money is on the Ruins being related to N's ancestors. That, and/or perhaps involving one or more legends.

I swear, this actually has some interesting things in it. The crown has some resemblance to that of the crown in the opening, and like I said, something was or is down there scaring the pokemon away.

Piemonster24
9th July 2011, 4:34 AM
So there were three civilizations right? And three dragons (Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem). So perhaps each civilization had one dragon fighting for them. King, (Kyurem) defeated Reshiram/Zekrom, the defendant of the Relic castle. The remains of the defeated dragon were later found and dubbed as the white/black stone in that very castle. The remaining dragon joined Kyurem who eventually had his civilization washed away by a wave. Kyurem fled to Giant Chasm, the place where he landed, and Zekrom/Reshiram stayed in Dragonspiral tower.

projectaumaan
9th July 2011, 4:43 AM
I swear, this actually has some interesting things in it. The crown has some resemblance to that of the crown in the opening, and like I said, something was or is down there scaring the pokemon away.

Woah, quote tags got funky. Uh, yeah, Water and Bug are 1x effective on each other. It's probably just the STAB that helps blow away the Water-types. You mentioned "Stormadous." I assume you meant Tornadus. I was just being picky. :p

Um, and it might be the booby trap that throws the player out that keeps the Pokémon away. Then again, the booby trap could be a legendary Pokémon.

Guywhoiam
9th July 2011, 4:58 AM
I still believe the theory that Kyurem is the remains of the dragon that Zekrom/Reshiram split from.

I also have my own theory about the destruction of the civilization. It's probably not true, this is just what I, personally, would like to have happened.

We all remember that the Red and Blue Orbs were made to control Groudon and Kyogre, yes? I was thinking, just for fun mind you, that the armies of Hoenn invaded eastern Unova with Groudon and Kyogre. Kyogre sunk the Abyssal Ruins, and they continued west, having Groudon's drought making ability dry up the "possibly" fertile land around Relic Castle. The land drying up causing a dust-bowl effect eventually leading to a desert. Hoenn's army then marched north only to be met with the resistance of the King and the original dragon that Zekrom and Reshiram split from. At Dragonspiral Tower Hoenn's army was routed, and Unova saved. This Hoenn's civilization lost the Orbs in the first place.

This theory does not fit with the legend much, but I personally like it.

Mr. pokedude
9th July 2011, 5:15 AM
Woah, quote tags got funky. Uh, yeah, Water and Bug are 1x effective on each other. It's probably just the STAB that helps blow away the Water-types. You mentioned "Stormadous." I assume you meant Tornadus. I was just being picky. :p

Um, and it might be the booby trap that throws the player out that keeps the Pokémon away. Then again, the booby trap could be a legendary Pokémon.

I see, I thought I said tornadous. ( my bad) Anyway, i guess it could be the torrent, but why would it keep the pokemon under the sea away? It's not like they are gonna become human and make themselves rich ^_^

projectaumaan
9th July 2011, 3:41 PM
I see, I thought I said tornadous. ( my bad) Anyway, i guess it could be the torrent, but why would it keep the pokemon under the sea away? It's not like they are gonna become human and make themselves rich ^_^

I was thinking it was a pre-set booby trap. No regard to whether the "intruder" is a Pokémon or a human. Just keeps everything out.

MetalFlygon08
9th July 2011, 3:54 PM
maybe theres a hidden groudon in relic castle, a rayquaza in dragonspiral tower, and a kyogre in the abyssal ruins :)

Probally not.

a little patern that happens to be in Pokemon Games.

Each remake has the cover legends of the next remake catchable in it.
(FRLG had Lugia and Ho-oh, HGSS has Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza, thus the RSE remakes should have Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina)


Though HGSS also had the Shinnoh trio too. So mabye no DPt remake.

Grei
9th July 2011, 8:25 PM
This thread isn't to discuss Legendary Pokemon, unless it's in relation to a myth.

Though I like the idea of each of the ancient areas being "civilizations" that had a Dragon fighting for them.

Something I wonder about is why in White, Zekrom isn't well-known in mythology, while in Black, Reshiram isn't well-known in mythology. The myths told in Icirrus only mention one Dragon, and everyone was surprised when Alder mentioned the second Dragon. I think that's strange, but I can't think of a reason for why the myths exclude one Pokemon, unless it also relates to how the Abyssal Ruins flip what Pokemon King defeated and what Pokemon joined King depending on the version you're playing.

Nintendo100
9th July 2011, 8:45 PM
I know the info about Abyssal Ruins PM me for info.

Kameinu
9th July 2011, 9:10 PM
What I want to clarify is the "Primes lead to truth." bit. Does it change to "Primes lead to ideals." in White? I haven't seen anyone mention this. It could hold a clue on what dragon really did what. So far I'm inclined to believe that if King and Kyurem saved Unova or whatever, Reshiram and it's partner joined them and then defeated Zekrom and it's partner.


And while I love the idea of the Weather Trio being somehow involved in ancient Unovian mythology, we don't know the distance between Unova and Hoenn. This are ancient people, their methods of transport where vastly different from those in modern day PokeWorld. Legendary intervention must be explained in order for them to have played some role.

I actually see Arceus playing some role in ancient events more than the Weather trio at the moment.

As to Genesect...the thing is a cloned fossil creature. An animal similar to Mewtwo in creation. How the heck can it play into ancient history?

Guywhoiam
9th July 2011, 10:07 PM
As to Genesect...the thing is a cloned fossil creature. An animal similar to Mewtwo in creation. How the heck can it play into ancient history?

As you said, 'fossil'. It could be back from before they died out. Although I doubt any of these ruins are that old.

Kameinu
10th July 2011, 2:25 AM
As you said, 'fossil'. It could be back from before they died out. Although I doubt any of these ruins are that old.

I also said "cloned" instead of revived and "An animal similar to Mewtwo in creation".

Genesect isn't like Aerodactyl or Kabutops.


Black
Over 300 million years ago, it was feared as the strongest of hunters. It has been modified by Team Plasma.

Blows the theory out of the water.

Abyssal, Relic and Spiral are no older than 5,000 years old.

Guywhoiam
10th July 2011, 2:27 AM
I also said "cloned" instead of revived and "An animal similar to Mewtwo in creation".

Genesect isn't like Aerodactyl or Kabutops.



Blows the theory out of the water.

Abyssal, Relic and Spiral are no older than 5,000 years old.

Touche.

10char

Mr. pokedude
13th July 2011, 3:20 AM
I was thinking it was a pre-set booby trap. No regard to whether the "intruder" is a Pokémon or a human. Just keeps everything out.
Yeah I guess, and that's obviously what's keeping everything out. But I still think there would be something down there past the throne room, but if there was, I can't deny the evidence that it would be blown away aswell.

I also said "cloned" instead of revived and "An animal similar to Mewtwo in creation".

Genesect isn't like Aerodactyl or Kabutops.



Blows the theory out of the water.

Abyssal, Relic and Spiral are no older than 5,000 years old.

I never said it was revived, I said it was a theory that even I doubt. Also I never said anything about it being there before hand, how do you know that team plasma modified it, ( which they did) and then it got away? It could of found the ruins and swam down there. It could of found a passage to get past the throne room. I still doubt my theory, but yeah, i'm still gonna hang on somewhat ^_^.

Zoroark4873
19th July 2011, 12:22 AM
I just got the stuff from this place and where do I sell them?

Ememew
19th July 2011, 12:26 AM
I just got the stuff from this place and where do I sell them?

In the rich family's Villa (the place where you can battle the Riches family). The man by the display cases accepts the treasures from the Ruins.

I think it's interesting that the code in the Abyssal Ruins is the first that can really be considered a "code" rather than a "language" - no language I know of changes which symbol is which letter based on what floor one is on. I guess the builders of the Ruins meant it to be a puzzle intentionally rather than just using what could be considered a dead language.

SnugNBouncy
19th July 2011, 3:31 PM
In the rich family's Villa (the place where you can battle the Riches family). The man by the display cases accepts the treasures from the Ruins.

I think it's interesting that the code in the Abyssal Ruins is the first that can really be considered a "code" rather than a "language" - no language I know of changes which symbol is which letter based on what floor one is on. I guess the builders of the Ruins meant it to be a puzzle intentionally rather than just using what could be considered a dead language.

i agree the whole abyssal code is really interesting i just hope it gets explained in the anime so im not left completely in the dark :,D

zerofield
19th July 2011, 8:12 PM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

Chippy2000
19th July 2011, 8:23 PM
I think the numbers mean the first 6 pokemon in the 'dex or the 3 genies and 3 dragons. Maybe answers.com can give the answer or maybe Bulbapedia.

thegreenwanderer
19th July 2011, 8:29 PM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

I cant remember the musketeer legend but i think it wasnt pokemon people were fighting.As in real life it was probably against each other.

Guywhoiam
19th July 2011, 9:13 PM
I cant remember the musketeer legend but i think it wasnt pokemon people were fighting.As in real life it was probably against each other.

I agree, and I believe that it was humans fighting each other to unify Unova and Pokemon were caught up in it. The Musketeers showed up to protect Pokemon trapped in between the two warring factions.

Eternal Draconic
20th July 2011, 12:10 AM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

That...

Makes perfect sense.

/Applause

munnafn22
30th July 2011, 12:44 AM
The Abyssal ruins is mysterious and those strange purple blocks with writing that you can't solve and remains a mystery.

I find that to be cool.

Bolt the Cat
30th July 2011, 12:50 AM
I hated Abyssal Ruins. First of all, I was very disappointed that that was the only place you could dive to, as I was hoping Dive would be back in full force from RSE. Makes me want RS remakes more. And the time limit is just stupid. That place is confusing enough as is, adding a time limit just makes it evil.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
30th July 2011, 1:36 AM
Yeah it was kinda annoying. I didn't really like Dive so that wasn't a big deal, but navigating was nearly impossible. While the concept was cool and all, it was too challenging.

Blackjack the Titan
30th July 2011, 2:07 AM
I hated Abyssal Ruins. First of all, I was very disappointed that that was the only place you could dive to, as I was hoping Dive would be back in full force from RSE. Makes me want RS remakes more. And the time limit is just stupid. That place is confusing enough as is, adding a time limit just makes it evil.

I hated the time limit, yet I was really pissed that there was a very small amount of regal items. But I got through it. I didn't get the Regal Crown cuz I want to save that for later when my money is low.

grayzoroark
30th July 2011, 2:32 AM
King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

I think king referes to arceus. he defeated dialga giratina and palkia in a day. Terakkion Virizion Cobolian and Keldeo joined him.The king called the weather trio and Reshiram and Zekrom to him. The king is hope and future. the great king... ... then what it seems unfinished. the picture is a bunny. could it represent mew? Mew does have big feet and it somewhat resembles a rabbit. Could mew have overthrown Arceus? or vise versa? is one of them like mother earth in Greek Mythology, she loves all of her children. Could mew have overrun Arceus with the help of Kyruem? She (or he) could have reverted Kyruem with an item to his original state before he was frozen? It also could have called on the help of the Sinnoh Dragon trio for revenge on arceus? And you, the trainer had to Take Mews side and help overrun N and arceus? Or is that too farfetched. Could all of this just be all wrong. does some make sense? PM me with your thoughts.

BIGJRA
30th July 2011, 3:11 AM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

Perfect!
Couldnt hav said it better.
Kyurem will become a new form when give the relic crown andreshiram and zekrom are in party

grayzoroark
30th July 2011, 3:27 AM
For all the confusion i have something to add, they could have gone to war and destroyed each other. There could have been a third civilazation one that lived at Dragonspiral tower and used the dragon pokemon to destroy the other two. ORRRRRRRRRRR..................if they decide to attach RSE to it, One civilazation in the air,One in the Ground, One underwater. The Hoenn Dragon Trio could have fought and Rayquaza would have silenced them. The Desert Castle IS right next to water so maybe the Abbysal Ruins Peoples(right by a beach!) used the legendaries they worshipped destroyed the other civilazation. And for the Darmanitans i CAN see why they are there but 500 years after the possible "big" war The Darmanitans had to migrate across unova and settled there but mabye they knew they had an importance so they stayed there until a chosen one came to save the world (has to do with abbysal ruins writings. When The war settled the civilazation that worshipped Raquaza spread across Unova.

BIGJRA
30th July 2011, 3:31 AM
Hoenn does put an odd twist into it...

Excitable Boy
30th July 2011, 4:52 PM
This thread has gone to hell.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
30th July 2011, 6:06 PM
This thread has gone to hell.

How so? .

Bolt the Cat
30th July 2011, 7:24 PM
How so? .

Indeed. The theories in this thread are quite interesting.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
30th July 2011, 7:39 PM
It is. But what are other ancient legends?

Original151Rocks
30th July 2011, 7:47 PM
Ive heard this before. What ive heard is that

3 is the mixed being of zekrom and reshiram
4 is either reshiram or zekrom
5 is genies
6 is kyurem which is the remains of the mixed zekrom and reshiram

what do you think of this?

Excitable Boy
30th July 2011, 7:49 PM
Indeed. The theories in this thread are quite interesting.

That's a rather interesting term you're using there.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
30th July 2011, 8:47 PM
Ive heard this before. What ive heard is that

3 is the mixed being of zekrom and reshiram
4 is either reshiram or zekrom
5 is genies
6 is kyurem which is the remains of the mixed zekrom and reshiram

what do you think of this?

I'm not sure what you mean

Bolt the Cat
30th July 2011, 9:02 PM
That's a rather interesting term you're using there.

What do you mean?

Original151Rocks
30th July 2011, 10:02 PM
I'm not sure what you mean

IN the last verse there are those numbers and thats what each mean in my opinion

abrar14
30th July 2011, 10:39 PM
i havent really bothered with theabyssal ruins because i can never find the middle pillar

Endoplasmic Reticulum
30th July 2011, 10:54 PM
IN the last verse there are those numbers and thats what each mean in my opinion

Last verse of what?

Bolt the Cat
30th July 2011, 11:49 PM
Last verse of what?

Translated text on the pillars in the room with the Relic Crown.

Ememew
31st July 2011, 1:13 AM
Translated text on the pillars in the room with the Relic Crown.

Also known as the big quote in the first post of this thread.

The specific verse they're referring to is:
King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

The numbers refer to symbols that have no direct translation as of now.

EDIT: If you're curious the runes in question look like these
http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11

JellyRuler
1st August 2011, 6:53 AM
Alright i've seen people think of the trio as being the genies, but what about Terrakion Cobalion and Virizion? Maybe the fire that they save the pokemon from was the down fall of like Relic Castle or Abyssal Ruins?

Mr. pokedude
1st August 2011, 12:06 PM
Yay for noob questions, has it been confirmed that Kyruem IS the original body? As I stated, legends change over time, and I find that it was just what was left another form to hold the last of the body, which was almost nothing. ( Kyruem would be formed bigger of course ).

BIGJRA
1st August 2011, 5:58 PM
Yay for noob questions, has it been confirmed that Kyruem IS the original body? As I stated, legends change over time, and I find that it was just what was left another form to hold the last of the body, which was almost nothing. ( Kyruem would be formed bigger of course ).

It hasn't actually been confirmed that Kyurem was the original body but almost all evidence shows that he is, like how Resh/Zek are Black and White and he is Grey and how he is all rugged and tattered, as if he was split into the two others. But we may never know

zerofield
1st August 2011, 7:29 PM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

i decided to push this post back up to the front, because it seemed to meet with approval last time it appeared, and so i thought it might help to answer some questions ive been seeing.

Wild Dragonite
1st August 2011, 10:57 PM
Right, so in a class I'm taking every Thursday, we started talking about Taoism. I asked a question about there being something about the absense of Yin and Yang (the two things that supposedly inspired Reshriam and Zekrom).

My instructor said there is nothing in the universe that is lacking both Yin and Yang, so there is no word for it.

So, if the trio of Reshriam, Zekrom and Kyruem really are the "Tao Trio", then that lends a lot of support to the theory of Kyruem being the shell that was left over from the first original Pokemon that split into Reshriam and Zekrom.


I couldn't figure out where to put this, and this seemed like the best place, even though it looks like it doesn't relate to your topic.

Mr. pokedude
2nd August 2011, 7:29 AM
It hasn't actually been confirmed that Kyurem was the original body but almost all evidence shows that he is, like how Resh/Zek are Black and White and he is Grey and how he is all rugged and tattered, as if he was split into the two others. But we may never know

I see, thank you for stating this out for me. And with my genesect idea, i'm yet again going to say I don't even believe it, but I will take a shot at it. I guess we can only wait.

VictiniWings
2nd August 2011, 2:02 PM
King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Ever though it might relate to the pokedex?
Reshiram #643=③
Zekrom #644=④
Landorus #645=⑤
Kyurem #646=⑥

Therefore it would go:
King defeated Reshiram alone.
Zekrom joined King in a day.
King called Landorus beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King Kyruem.

(If you dont understand the 3rd line the 'Landorus beings' are Landorus, Tornadus and Thundurus.)

This says that Kyruem is the King, which might suggest that Kyurem has a greater/better/stronger form, and I think that if you give the Relic Crown to Kyurem in the Grey version he should transform. That would be sooo cool!

-VictiniWings

PokemonTrainers
2nd August 2011, 2:50 PM
@VictiniWings
Interesting stuff, would have never thought of that. Your theory sounds correct. Can't wait until Pokemon Grey because of that. This is just out of the blue, but do you think Ghetsis has anything to do with this? What about the seven sages? And N!?

firemaster13
2nd August 2011, 2:52 PM
@VictiniWings
Interesting stuff, would have never thought of that. Your theory sounds correct. Can't wait until Pokemon Grey because of that. This is just out of the blue, but do you think Ghetsis has anything to do with this? What about the seven sages? And N!?

ghetsis is one of the seven sages

Endoplasmic Reticulum
2nd August 2011, 4:05 PM
Also known as the big quote in the first post of this thread.
Oh true. I should really check that...

PokemonTrainers
3rd August 2011, 5:36 PM
ghetsis is one of the seven sages

Lol, I forgot. I still consider him as "leader" of them. I wonder what Ghetsis did to save / help the Shadow Triad to which made them obey him.

Endoplasmic Reticulum
3rd August 2011, 5:41 PM
That's because he is the leader of them

Grei
3rd August 2011, 5:51 PM
King defeated ③ alone.
④ joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

Ever though it might relate to the pokedex?
Reshiram #643=③
Zekrom #644=④
Landorus #645=⑤
Kyurem #646=⑥

Therefore it would go:
King defeated Reshiram alone.
Zekrom joined King in a day.
King called Landorus beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King Kyruem.

(If you dont understand the 3rd line the 'Landorus beings' are Landorus, Tornadus and Thundurus.)

This says that Kyruem is the King, which might suggest that Kyurem has a greater/better/stronger form, and I think that if you give the Relic Crown to Kyurem in the Grey version he should transform. That would be sooo cool!

-VictiniWings

That's interesting, but your reasoning is incorrect. Those numbers don't actually mean anything--they're placeholders for the following symbols:

http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11

Those numbers aren't in the original text, so they can't be linked to the Pokedex numbers.

arceus7
3rd August 2011, 6:28 PM
Actually I think King is KING, and if we take the numbers LITERALLY it may mean king defeated 3 BEINGS ala Ram,Rom,Rem, 4 joined King in a day ( The Musketeers) ,5 things came ( maybe these refer to Genesect drives)
6 might refer to a multitude of things including the Sages.

Grei
3rd August 2011, 6:41 PM
Actually I think King is KING, and if we take the numbers LITERALLY it may mean king defeated 3 BEINGS ala Ram,Rom,Rem, 4 joined King in a day ( The Musketeers) ,5 things came ( maybe these refer to Genesect drives)
6 might refer to a multitude of things including the Sages.

:|

I just said that the numbers don't mean a thing. Like, right above you. Those numbers are there as placeholders and weren't in the actual text.


That's interesting, but your reasoning is incorrect. Those numbers don't actually mean anything--they're placeholders for the following symbols:

http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11

Those numbers aren't in the original text, so they can't be linked to the Pokedex numbers.

Besides, the symbols number 3 and 4 are switched between versions, so that wouldn't make sense anyway.

arceus7
3rd August 2011, 6:43 PM
Place holders yes but what does the cuniform mean itself?

Eternal Draconic
5th August 2011, 7:09 PM
It is unknown.

That's what everyone is trying to figure out.

Brody McSteveBro
5th August 2011, 8:49 PM
Just imagine if GameFreak said "oh well they know all of the myths screw the third game"

FrozenLaughs
9th August 2011, 11:39 PM
I can't help but to think this may reference Arcues, despite being in B/W. Part of Arceus's story is that he sacrificed himself to save the world from Meteors. Kyurem is said to come down in an Icy Meteor?

King defeated ③ alone. ???
④ joined King in a day. Arceus creates the Creation Trio, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina (The symbol looks like the Dragon Orbs)
King called ⑤ beings. Arceus creates the Lake Guardians, Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf (The symbol looks like a fish)
King is hope and future. According to the anime, its power can also bring back things that it once destroyed or make certain things vanish into thin air. Arceus also has the ability to halt time.
The great King ⑥. Arceus??? (I think the symbol looks like a bunny, but It could be Arceus, it has similar ears)

BCVM22
9th August 2011, 11:51 PM
It doesn't.

Ask yourself this: would it really make any sense for them to continue giving any major spotlight to Arceus, a critter from the previous generation, when they have plenty to do in giving stage time to Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem and the rest?

Put differently, does it make any sense that they'd say "hey guys! We know this generation's Legendaries are cool and stuff... but remember that one Legendary from the games that came out five(-plus) years ago now? That was so cool, wasn't it?!"

The stuff about Arceus and meteors and whatever comes from the anime only, regardless. Whatever the writing means, and we'll probably find out eventually, it has to do with Legendaries from this generation.

FrozenLaughs
9th August 2011, 11:56 PM
It doesn't.

Ask yourself this: would it really make any sense for them to continue giving any major spotlight to Arceus, a critter from the previous generation, when they have plenty to do in giving stage time to Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem and the rest?

Put differently, does it make any sense that they'd say "hey guys! We know this generation's Legendaries are cool and stuff... but remember that one Legendary from the games that came out five(-plus) years ago now? That was so cool, wasn't it?!"

The stuff about Arceus and meteors and whatever comes from the anime only, regardless. Whatever the writing means, and we'll probably find out eventually, it has to do with Legendaries from this generation.


They mysteriously shake a stick at "3000 years ago" that could very well be to the creation of the world/universe. 3000 years ago there weren't too many Pokemon to choose from, regardless of Region/Generation.

BCVM22
10th August 2011, 12:43 AM
You're rationalizing. I ask again: does it really make sense to you that they'd continue giving major spotlight to old Legendaries when they have the whole current slate to play around with?

The answer to that is no, it would be illogical at best.

People tried this with the Canalave library and tried to rationalize the Hoenn Legendaries as being the ones mentioned in the Sinnoh myths. It made no sense then either.

Furthermore, half of your argument is predicated on the fact that you find what are small and simple cuneiform to vaguely resemble certain Pokémon; equally illogical.

There's no sense to believing this.

Goeat
10th August 2011, 11:24 PM
So... the Abyssal Ruins.

This locale, accessed by Dive in four specific spots in Undella Bay, is a labyrinth filled with ancient relics and artifacts dating back to over 3,000 years ago. Traversing this underwater location requires swiftness--for something forces you back to the surface after spending too much time in the ruins' passageways--as well as intuition and much foresight, so as to see what key items and abilities one must possess to unlock deeper floors in the ruins. In the deepest chamber, there is a room containing nothing but a crown--implying that it is perhaps a throne room, and that the ruins are the remains of an ancient sunken palace, castle, or kingdom.

Written on the walls and pillars within these ruins are various stanzas of ancient text that must be deciphered by the player.

(After traversing through the ruins and obtaining every artifact, I did not have the energy or patience to try deciphering this text. I found a translation of the Japanese text and decided to just read that instead.)

When put all together into a complete scripture, the text reads:




The final stanza contains four symbols (marked as the 3, 4, 5, and 6) that are not recognizable or translatable, indicating that these symbols perhaps denote the names of people or Pokemon. Various theories exist for which symbols mean what, if this text is a legend or a prophecy, and what significance it plays in conjunction with the current popular Unova legends, as well as in a future incarnate of Black and White (that is, Grey).

What do you make of all of this?
Is this text speaking of events that happened 3,000 years before the events of Black and White? Is this text foretelling of events that, 3,000 years ago, had not yet come to pass? Or neither? And what relation might these ruins have to the Dragonspiral Tower that lies north of Icirrus City, or to the Relic Castle, buried in the sands of the Resort Desert?

------------------------------------

In addition, this thread may also be used to discuss other Unova Legends, such as the myth concerning the twin brothers and Zekrom and Reshiram. Icirrus City is a big location for myths, as the Dragonspiral Tower, one of the oldest standing structures in Unova, looms over the city. However, various myths are found in other areas as well. Discuss each legend and how they all connect to form Unova's ancient history here!

It might be about the new movies coming out about victini being trapped

Arceus94
16th August 2011, 3:06 PM
The Abyssal Ruins are creepy.
I really like the Relic Castle.
somehow, I feel "At home" there.

Meowth City
17th August 2011, 4:53 PM
I hate going through the Abyssal Ruins. It's really cool with the myths and all, but the maze and puzzles are annoying especially when you have to do it in a short number of steps. I only went through it twice and never again. I don't even need or want the treasure or Plates anyway.

Having said all that, I do find the first post quite fascinating. The scriptures are interesting and I do wonder who this king is. Could it really be talking about Kyruem? I guess we might find out in Gray if that ever happens.

Hexin' Wishes
23rd September 2011, 12:06 AM
I like the Ruins for what they are: a staple of the Pokemon games that make the region seem grander than it is.

I hope it has some relation to Arceus because I missed the events for that pokemon. :(

BCVM22
23rd September 2011, 12:10 AM
The two aren't connected, and there's no reason to believe they are either. They have absolutely nothing to gain by taking what is clearly a key location into which they've put a fair bit of work and then taking the spotlight away from the current generation by linking the location to a critter from the previous generation.

Hexin' Wishes
23rd September 2011, 12:10 AM
The two aren't connected, and there's no reason to believe they are either. They have absolutely nothing to gain by taking what is clearly a key location into which they've put a fair bit of work and then taking the spotlight away from the current generation by linking the location to a critter from the previous generation.

I was just going by the fact the plates are scattered around.

BCVM22
23rd September 2011, 12:12 AM
They had to put them somewhere, since they can't be imported from a Generation IV game, and I imagine the thought was that it makes more sense to put them all in one place, and a place where you're purposely disoriented and have a limited number of steps at that.

Point remains, otherwise.

Kindrindra
23rd September 2011, 2:12 AM
It might be about the new movies coming out about victini being trapped

Game Plot.
Anime Movies.

NO RELATION.

TheGreatDragonite
23rd September 2011, 8:45 PM
I couldn't decipher the text, but I still love the ruins. I am really hoping they expand them in Grey.

And I am probably wrong, but I just have some sort of feeling it is related to Meloetta.

BCVM22
23rd September 2011, 9:23 PM
Ibut I just have some sort of feeling it is related to Meloetta.

...

I'll bite: putting aside the fact that we know Meloetta's event already, why do you have this feeling?

TheGreatDragonite
24th September 2011, 12:10 PM
...

I'll bite: putting aside the fact that we know Meloetta's event already, why do you have this feeling?

I didn't know we did have the event, but if you do know please tell me.

I thought that as Meloetta is a sort of ancient relic Poikemon, I thought it might have some connection with this great ruins of an ancient civilisation.

BCVM22
24th September 2011, 8:04 PM
I didn't know we did have the event, but if you do know please tell me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdbpsG7CQQ

Take your eventual event Meloetta to the cafe in Castelia City, and the musician within will notice and wax poetic about how he was a fan of Meloetta before she was popular how music takes us places and gives us memories and stuff, and he'll teach Meloetta the attack called Relic Song, which allows her to switch between formes when it's used in battle.

She has no link to any ruins or ancient civilizations as best as anyone knows and as best as any logic suggests.

Hexin' Wishes
25th September 2011, 4:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdbpsG7CQQ

She's so fabulous! :D I want her now!

Dane12
25th September 2011, 9:25 AM
The thing is Reshiram and Zekrom were split from Kyurem's TRUE Form by the Twin Heroes and after the Occurance Kyurem's Form looks like He has Broken apart, right?
But in Gray maybe There is a Cutscene where Reshiram and Zekrom try to awake Kyurem's TRUE Form by trying to merge together.

Conclusion: White + Black = Gray duhh.

invaderdim
25th September 2011, 12:32 PM
here's how i see it.3000 years ago,people considered pokemon enemies.this is backed up by (if we take ⑤ to mean pokemon)the text in the abyssal ruins,and the musketeer trio's legend.the two brothers in the tao trio legend lived at about that time.they found kyurem after it fell from space(according to legends about giant chasm)and somehow made a pact with it and became allies.they used kyurem to unite the region,but (according to the myths)had a disagreement about truth/ideals and became enemies.kyurem split into two beings,reshiram and zekrom,to try and please both of them.the original body was left behind,but with much lower stats,and went into a state of hibernation in giant chasm.the two battled using resh/zek.heres where it diverges.in black,the brother using zekrom won,and thats why only it is known in the mythology in that game,vice versa for white.the brother attempted to get people to recognize pokemon as beings and not slaves or food,but the old kingdoms rule wouldnt allow it.he had to use his respective legendary to destroy the old system and convince people,hence the major landmarks are now ruined(dragonspiral tower,relic castle,abyssal ruins). near the end of his life,he went and hid the relic crown in the safest place he could think,abyssal ruins,along with traps to protect it.the blocks and traps inside are there to make it so only the true king who agrees with his ideals can get the crown(and sell it to some fanatic in undella town)it took 500 years for relic castle to completely become covered by sand.proof of this is that the darmanitan there are NOT buried,so they took up residence AFTER it became covered.
this might not have made all that much sense,but its my theory,so please read it ^^

this is exactly what i was thinking ^^ it also explains the symbols, 3 is kyurem represented as a meteorite and the 2 lines at the bottom are a chasm and the round line in the middle is the force of kyurem entering the atmosphere. 4 is the 2 dragons created from kyurem. 5 is a fish with a hook, how pokemon were treated, may not mean exactly pokemon but represents what they were to humans. and i'm not quite sure aabout 6 :(

Arceus94
25th September 2011, 2:32 PM
It would be awesome if you could meet Frillish and Jellicent there. and maybe find a shipswreck ;D

Hexin' Wishes
26th September 2011, 1:31 AM
The thing is Reshiram and Zekrom were split from Kyurem's TRUE Form by the Twin Heroes and after the Occurance Kyurem's Form looks like He has Broken apart, right?
But in Gray maybe There is a Cutscene where Reshiram and Zekrom try to awake Kyurem's TRUE Form by trying to merge together.

Conclusion: White + Black = Gray duhh.

It makes perfect sense. I'm guessing the form change will be something like Giratina, through some kind of held item (which probably would have a backstory of being the combined forces of Zekrom and Reshiram).

Dragontamer1011
26th September 2011, 3:16 AM
Just a thought.. Whose to say the twin brothers were fighting due to the split of Kyurem as one of them had Reshiram and the other Zekrom. The king stopped the war by bringing Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom together... --V

King defeated ③ alone. (Evil/War)
④ joined King in a day. (Kyurem)
King called ⑤ beings. (All)
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥. (Whoever is king in the 3rd game or could possibly just be "Reigns" etc)

Sounds like a spoiler for the third game, thats all.

Also, it seems to me like there are three different kingdoms, I.E. Relic Castle, Dragonspiral Tower, and Abyssal Ruins. There also seem to be alot of shrines and things around as well, wonder what those have to do with everything.

Hexin' Wishes
27th September 2011, 12:37 AM
Just a thought.. Whose to say the twin brothers were fighting due to the split of Kyurem as one of them had Reshiram and the other Zekrom. The king stopped the war by bringing Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom together... --V

If I understood correctly, didn't the two brothers share a single pokemon that split to please the brothers whom were having their ideals clash?

Dragontamer1011
27th September 2011, 2:18 AM
If I understood correctly, didn't the two brothers share a single pokemon that split to please the brothers whom were having their ideals clash?

Thats what I was referring to. What if Kyurem disappeared and Zekrom and Reshiram sided with one of the brothers each?

TheGreatDragonite
27th September 2011, 7:37 PM
Just a thought.. Whose to say the twin brothers were fighting due to the split of Kyurem as one of them had Reshiram and the other Zekrom. The king stopped the war by bringing Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom together... --V

King defeated ③ alone. (Evil/War)
④ joined King in a day. (Kyurem)
King called ⑤ beings. (All)
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥. (Whoever is king in the 3rd game or could possibly just be "Reigns" etc)

Sounds like a spoiler for the third game, thats all.

Also, it seems to me like there are three different kingdoms, I.E. Relic Castle, Dragonspiral Tower, and Abyssal Ruins. There also seem to be alot of shrines and things around as well, wonder what those have to do with everything.

I reckon that's it, a spoiler. If they do it right, grey will be a really good game.

Jacobthepokemonfreak
29th September 2011, 12:56 AM
I actually think that there is something regi about this place, because of the inability to catch the regi's except via event or gba game!
this is rather farfecht'd but maybe there is something between this and a hoenn remake? as you would edit the storyline of black/white to harshly for a third game i think because of the fact that N needs a legend in a DUO, so i think that kyreum is just a random other legend not related to zekrom and reshiram as according to the old woman in Lacosa town a METEOR came down with Kyreum so i would excpect that if Kyreum has a relation at all it would be Deoxys which it quite obviously is not.

Jacobthepokemonfreak
29th September 2011, 12:58 AM
If I understood correctly, didn't the two brothers share a single pokemon that split to please the brothers whom were having their ideals clash?

If I understood correctly Kyreum came down in a meteor (which explains the comet shard at the Giant chasm).

Hexin' Wishes
29th September 2011, 1:12 AM
If I understood correctly Kyreum came down in a meteor (which explains the comet shard at the Giant chasm).

Well, yes. All I said in that post was that Zekrom and the other one were once one Pokemon.

It would be awesome to actually see what that single pokemon would have looked like though...

Kameinu
29th September 2011, 7:04 AM
On Kyurem and the meteor. Some speculate the dragon could've simpy flown to the sky to split itself. With the remains, being Kyurem, landing and creating the Giant Chasm.

On Kyurem being part of the Abyssal writtings. It could've very well been partnered with he mentioned King and stopped the twin heroes sons from causing permanent harm to a destroyed Unova.

Kyurem may end up being the trio master of the Tao Trio, much like Rayquaza is of the Weather Trio, and Landorus of the Kami Trio. Zekrom and Reshiram are fighting, Kyurem could've put them in their place.

Glover
30th September 2011, 2:08 AM
Game Plot.
Anime Movies.

NO RELATION.

Incorrect. The movies have been ways to sell things. Like the Games. Thus, similarities and parrallels, although they won't be exactly identical so it's not monotonous, are bound to happen.

---
Going forsmall picture approach:

Assuming the myth about Kyruem faling from the sky, and if the dragons split in the air and he's a castoff who fell to earth, that theroy does still hold water, did he cause the flooding on impact, that put the ruins underwater?

--
Unrelated Myth: We have a fire, of which Keldeo was saved from by three Pokemon who acted as heroes to hold off Human destruction.

---
Unrelated Myth: Landorus brought crops and food. Tornadus & Thunderus


What if, what if the King's Story isn't so much a legend, and not a prohecy, but a fable? The kamis aren't so much about the world in general, as they are about life and its struggles. (See the Settlement and Colonial Years, where the settlers were fighting the weather to survive)

You know, a thought crossed my mind. Unova is supposed t be New York. But if the Settler theory is true, that wasn't NY. The Muskateer Trio is based on a European myth. So is a Relic Castle, which is not prevelant in the US like it is in the UK, The settlers were foreign from England, and we have blatently European style dragons in play as the main characters. Interesting, if random coincidence.

And I'm still willing to ponder on, what if we're wrong? What if the Ruins have got nothing to do with Zek/Resh? I only say that, because it seems to add little to their myth and falls after their main run.

Some people are quick to exclude the outside legendaries, but let's not forget that Arceaus and crew appeared in HGSS, AS WELL AS Rayquaza and co. Did the Regis make it? because if not, I think they're the only legendaries who didn't. So there's [recedense for them to incorporate the other legendaries in the capstone game. (caps off the first two)

BCVM22
30th September 2011, 5:51 AM
Incorrect. The movies have been ways to sell things. Like the Games. Thus, similarities and parrallels, although they won't be exactly identical so it's not monotonous, are bound to happen.

No, they still have no relation besides the occasional coincidence. Particularly in this case, where the Victini/Zekrom/Reshiram movies have nothing to do with any potential future purpose the Abyssal Ruins might serve.


Unova is supposed t be New York. But if the Settler theory is true, that wasn't NY.

Not that your comparions aren't valid, but it's definitely (http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/?p=242) New York (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unova#cite_note-1).


Some people are quick to exclude the outside legendaries, but let's not forget that Arceaus and crew appeared in HGSS, AS WELL AS Rayquaza and co

HG/SS was a remake of a region template that hadn't appeared in a game in a decade, leaving ample room for them to add the Hoenn Legendaries in a previously empty portion of the western part of the region and for them to give the Ruins of Alph the purpose of warping you to an unknown part of the Pokémon world.

Not that they can't add to Unova in empty parts of the map, but otherwise, the eventual third Unova title is none of these things, and while it's not at all impossible that they might toss in previous-generation Legendaries to that eventual game, it isn't particularly logical that they would tie any of them in to the Abyssal Ruins, which is ostensibly what's being discussed rather than the entirety of the game itself.

Dane12
30th September 2011, 11:21 AM
Kyurem still has the Power of Zekrom and Reshiram because it knows Freeze Shock and Ice Burn, right?

sdfsdfj
1st October 2011, 3:25 AM
Kyurem still has the Power of Zekrom and Reshiram because it knows Freeze Shock and Ice Burn, right?

I would think so. this would be where zekrom and reshiram got their electric/fire powers if they split off from kyurem. or maybe it's the other way around. i don't know.

Anyway, i could see abyssal ruins and relic castle being connected. they could be the places were the brothers went after leaving their father. then, based on the version of the game, the victorious brother lived at the abyssal ruins and the losing one at relic castle, thus the stone being found there and the crown found in abyssal ruins.

Hexin' Wishes
1st October 2011, 4:04 AM
Kyurem still has the Power of Zekrom and Reshiram because it knows Freeze Shock and Ice Burn, right?

Sorry but what? o_0

munnafn22
1st October 2011, 5:39 AM
I think they'll decode the ancient writing in the abyssal ruins in the next pokemon game to come.

If U Seek Amy
1st October 2011, 5:45 AM
The whole thing better make more sense in the next game...

Dane12
2nd October 2011, 6:01 AM
The Secrets are still to be revealed.... IN POKEMAN GRAY XD

BlazingCold
2nd October 2011, 6:26 AM
Next game it's oughta make more sense, bro.

I never liked this area.

Mr. pokedude
2nd October 2011, 2:05 PM
It makes perfect sense. I'm guessing the form change will be something like Giratina, through some kind of held item (which probably would have a backstory of being the combined forces of Zekrom and Reshiram).
Zekrom and Reshiram bind together and become a tiny triangle-diamond thing? I think I'm misunderstanding *.*.




Just a thought.. Whose to say the twin brothers were fighting due to the split of Kyurem as one of them had Reshiram and the other Zekrom. The king stopped the war by bringing Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom together... --V

King defeated ③ alone. (Evil/War)
④ joined King in a day. (Kyurem)
King called ⑤ beings. (All)
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥. (Whoever is king in the 3rd game or could possibly just be "Reigns" etc)

Sounds like a spoiler for the third game, thats all.

Also, it seems to me like there are three different kingdoms, I.E. Relic Castle, Dragonspiral Tower, and Abyssal Ruins. There also seem to be alot of shrines and things around as well, wonder what those have to do with everything.

Obviously a spoiler, not sure about the rest though, but it's not like my theory was any better. *cough*worse*cough*.

Go back a few pages, you'll find my post. I totally agree. Though I have to admit i didn't notice the shrines apart from in the Relic Castle where you catch Volcarona.

serpask
22nd October 2011, 3:53 AM
I think that Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins were where the two brothers kinda had their base or whatever, during the war. Kyurem had split into Reshiram and Zekrom and its ruined body was thrown into the ground thus creating the Giant Chasm. The Musketeer Trio was just there during the war trying to help the Pokemon. When the war was getting really destructive some person rose to try to stop the war and would later become the king. This person (maybe an ancestor of N or the main character) did something (possibly using Arceus or Mew) to revive the body of Kyurem, and intervene in the war. Relic Castle was covered in sand and the Abyssal Ruins were lowered into the ocean (possibly Landorus covering one castle with sand and sinking the ground under the other one). One of the sides surrendered and Reshiram/Zekrom went to Dragonspiral Tower. The other side was defeated by the combined forces of the two armys and Zekrom/Reshiram was destroyed and became the Dark/Light Stone.

pokeninja123
22nd October 2011, 1:09 PM
I think that Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins were where the two brothers kinda had their base or whatever, during the war. Kyurem had split into Reshiram and Zekrom and its ruined body was thrown into the ground thus creating the Giant Chasm. The Musketeer Trio was just there during the war trying to help the Pokemon. When the war was getting really destructive some person rose to try to stop the war and would later become the king. This person (maybe an ancestor of N or the main character) did something (possibly using Arseus or Mew) to revive the body of Kyurem, and intervene in the war. Relic Castle was covered in sand and the Abyssal Ruins were lowered into the ocean (possibly Landorus covering one castle with sand and sinking the ground under the other one). One of the sides surrendered and Reshiram/Zekrom went to Dragonspiral Tower. The other side was defeated by the combined forces of the two armys and Zekrom/Reshiram was destroyed and became the Dark/Light Stone.

that kinda makes sense

Honeyichigo
22nd October 2011, 6:21 PM
So what's with the untranslated symbols being marked 3-6 instead of 1-4? I've seen it related to the Pokedex numbers of the three dragons and Landorus, but was that the only reason those numbers were chosen?

Ememew
22nd October 2011, 8:17 PM
So what's with the untranslated symbols being marked 3-6 instead of 1-4? I've seen it related to the Pokedex numbers of the three dragons and Landorus, but was that the only reason those numbers were chosen?

I think it's actually because of the "5th" and "7th" corners the king turns. The numbers 5 and 7 are the first two "untranslated" symbols because both are "symbol" followed by "th" (unlike 2nd and 3rd, which have unique endings and can be easily distinguished from that fact). We know one is 5 and one is 7 from the way the corners are on the later floors, but which symbol is which number isn't known.

So those two take up the first two "untranslated" marks, even though we technically know what they are (just not which is which), and the remaining 4 are numbered 3-6. The numbers were not selected based on Pokedex numbers and the symbols' relations to the Pokemon with those numbers is only speculation at this point.

Alexander18
22nd October 2011, 11:42 PM
I hope we get more details on the ruins in the next game, so we know a bit more about it.

yanmegy423
23rd October 2011, 7:26 AM
3: Landorus, Thundurus, Tornadus
4: Cobalion, Terakkion, Virizion, Keldeo
5: I have no clue.
6: Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Genesect, Victini, Meloetta (lol derp :P)

I dunno, but this kinda links to RSE...

3: Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza (Relic Castle is buried, Abyssal Depths in water, Dragonspiral Tower in Air?)
4: All Regi's? (Including Regigigas)
5:Lati's and Regi's
Hope and Future: Jirachi and Deoxys
6: Weather Trio and Tao Trio maybe? Even Eon duo and Victini.

Also, someone mentioned King using an Arceus or Mew to stop the battle between brothers. I think Victini was used, because they were victorious...

serpask
23rd October 2011, 6:20 PM
Also, someone mentioned King using an Arceus or Mew to stop the battle between brothers. I think Victini was used, because they were victorious...

I said that the King used Arceus or Mew to revive Kyurem and Kyurem stopped the battle, not Arceus or Mew themselves. I don't think legendaries from other generations play a major role in the legends. But Victini being used is a good idea too. Maybe Victini revived Kyurem.

GoldCyndaquil
23rd October 2011, 8:44 PM
I said that the King used Arceus or Mew to revive Kyurem and Kyurem stopped the battle, not Arceus or Mew themselves. I don't think legendaries from other generations play a major role in the legends. But Victini being used is a good idea too. Maybe Victini revived Kyurem.

That could make sense because whatever Victini becomes more lucky and energized, maybe enough to revive something. And maybe therecould be a link to the Abyssal Ruins,Relic Castle, and Dragonspiral Tower in the possible RSE remakes.

2rsa
27th October 2011, 6:01 PM
I wished there was a legendary pokemon in this ruins.

Qmaz246
27th October 2011, 6:03 PM
They should at least make the language Brille like in the Hoenn games, at least you could look up the Brille alphabet.

Alexander18
27th October 2011, 10:11 PM
I wished there was a legendary pokemon in this ruins.

It might be possible, could have the Regis in the ruins.

Hexin' Wishes
28th October 2011, 3:55 AM
It might be possible, could have the Regis in the ruins.

Please no more Regis.

Blue Breloom
28th October 2011, 9:50 PM
I worked hard to map the ruins on my own, and only after finishing I found out someone did it before me and better! The internet is depressing!

See? (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/ruinsmap.jpg/)

And how did they translate that Cuneiform text?

Alexander18
28th October 2011, 10:39 PM
Please no more Regis.

Why not? Regis appear in platinum but only with event Regigigas and if they put the Regis in Grey, it be another hint to Ruby/Sapphire remakes.

yanmegy423
29th October 2011, 5:09 AM
Personally, imo, it would make sense to put Mew in there. It' the second oldest pokemon in the world and the ancestor to all pokemon! It makes some sense.

It's obvious that a pokemon will be put in there, one that is very old, not obtainabe easily in the last two generations, and makes reference to a possible future game or the myth of the Abyssal Ruins.

Hell. Maybe even Jirachi (probably the most desirable legendary to put there i guess)

Glover
29th October 2011, 5:11 AM
Personally, imo, it would make sense to put Mew in there. It' the second oldest pokemon in the world and the ancestor to all pokemon! It makes some sense.

It's obvious that a pokemon will be put in there, one that is very old, not obtainabe easily in the last two generations, and makes reference to a possible future game or the myth of the Abyssal Ruins.

Hell. Maybe even Jirachi (probably the most desirable legendary to put there i guess)

There was just a Gamestop Jirachi recently, so we can rule him out on the last grounds. When was Mew's last release?

Hexin' Wishes
29th October 2011, 5:34 AM
There was just a Gamestop Jirachi recently, so we can rule him out on the last grounds. When was Mew's last release?

More recently than Jirachi that's for sure (http://www.serebii.net/events/2010.shtml).


Why not? Regis appear in platinum but only with event Regigigas and if they put the Regis in Grey, it be another hint to Ruby/Sapphire remakes.

I find that line of legendaries to be quite a non-event. Also, considering the past release timelines, the remakes come before the third version.

Glover
29th October 2011, 5:38 AM
More recent than Jirachi that's for sure (http://www.serebii.net/events/2010.shtml).

Where was I then? Still, that's only eight months between them. I wonder if I just misplaced Mew?

BCVM22
29th October 2011, 8:20 AM
Personally, imo, it would make sense to put Mew in there. It' the second oldest pokemon in the world and the ancestor to all pokemon!

So let's stick it in a pile of ruins deep underneath the sea! It makes tons of sense!

Wait...


Also, considering the past release timelines, the remakes come before the third version.

The "past release timelines" (all two of them) where the remakes came first in one of them and didn't in the other. And where the one in which they did come first had the remakes being the only core titles out of the last seven releases - that's going back nearly a decade now - to not be a fall release, giving us some idea that it's not something to be taken as a precedent.

yanmegy423
29th October 2011, 8:25 AM
Some people -- like me -- don't have access to events like that in NA. I'm just saying a lot of people would find it preferable if they could obtain these pokemon without an event. There should be some love for Australia (we don't get as many events as Europe, NA and Japan...)

EDIT: I just realised how stupid it would be to put a pokemon that can't breathe water underwater... >.> I guess Manaphy would be suitable as the 3rd Ranger game hasn't come out in Western Countries I believe...

BCVM22
29th October 2011, 8:59 AM
Some people -- like me -- don't have access to events like that in NA. I'm just saying a lot of people would find it preferable if they could obtain these pokemon without an event. There should be some love for Australia (we don't get as many events as Europe, NA and Japan...)

Australia gets all of the major events, the major events being the events with ties to movies and which all of the event Pokémon - the Darkrais, Shaymins, Arceuses (Arceusi?), the Victinis and undoubtedly the Keldeos, Meloettas and Genesects of the world - are.

Check the event database (http://www.serebii.net/events/) for yourself on any given recent major event Pokémon - Australia, sometimes even Oceania as a whole, got the event without issue.

And for the people who aren't able to obtain the events, that's unfortunate, but it certainly shouldn't be the driving force behind what is or isn't implemented in the games.

The objective of the events isn't to make such things available to every person, everywhere, ever; not only would that be patently impossible, but the point of the events is to manufacture at least some artificial scarcity, an essential element when there are as many elements of a collectible set as there are in Pokémon. That artificial scarcity - the simple notion that there is material that many but not all were able to obtain - is certainly lessened with the advent of Wi-Fi trading and Wi-Fi events themselves, but it's still there.

The point I'm trying to make is that more than enough people are able to partake of the various events, both in-store and over Wi-Fi, that if any one person is unable to do so, it's unfortunate for them but not a whole lot else, and shouldn't - and doesn't - dictate what is or isn't done in the games.

Jirachi9
29th October 2011, 1:21 PM
Australia does get all the major events. We don't get as many chances or events as other country's but we still get all the legendary events plus a few others

Valoo.
29th October 2011, 2:23 PM
I don't understand why people are saying Mew/Regis/Arceus/random past legendary are could be in the Abyssal Ruins. They're not going to put a past legendary as a focus in this area they've put a lot of time into. Mew/Arceus/whatever have no connection to Unova, let alone the ruins.

Glover
29th October 2011, 7:28 PM
I don't understand why people are saying Mew/Regis/Arceus/random past legendary are could be in the Abyssal Ruins. They're not going to put a past legendary as a focus in this area they've put a lot of time into. Mew/Arceus/whatever have no connection to Unova, let alone the ruins. And yet, every sequel game has taken steps to include legendaries and species from previous releases. The birds, the dogs, the Eon Twins, I would be very surprised if Eastern Unova doesn't bleed into the west.


Some people -- like me -- don't have access to events like that in NA. I'm just saying a lot of people would find it preferable if they could obtain these pokemon without an event. There should be some love for Australia (we don't get as many events as Europe, NA and Japan...)

EDIT: I just realised how stupid it would be to put a pokemon that can't breathe water underwater... >.> I guess Manaphy would be suitable as the 3rd Ranger game hasn't come out in Western Countries I believe...But it wouldn't be stupid, if at the top of the temple was a portal to XXXXX Pokemon, who's not underwater. Mew, for example, isn't likely to be in a ruin. Jirachi woukdn't need to breathe while cacooned.

It's an even split then. There are a lot of things I wish I could've gotten too.

Hexin' Wishes
29th October 2011, 7:59 PM
The "past release timelines" (all two of them) where the remakes came first in one of them and didn't in the other. And where the one in which they did come first had the remakes being the only core titles out of the last seven releases - that's going back nearly a decade now - to not be a fall release, giving us some idea that it's not something to be taken as a precedent.

Well aren't you just the sweetest little cabrón. :)

No, seriously, stop being an internet tough guy (or should I say Pokemon tough guy?). It's really annoying, rude and unnecessary. #foodforthought

Now that I've said that, I did forget Platinum came before the remakes of G/S (namely because I didn't bother with D/P/Pt).

Sonikku za Hejjihoggu
29th October 2011, 8:43 PM
Well aren't you just the sweetest little cabrón. :)

No, seriously, stop being an internet tough guy (or should I say Pokemon tough guy?). It's really annoying, rude and unnecessary. #foodforthought

Now that I've said that, I did forget Platinum came before the remakes of G/S (namely because I didn't bother with D/P/Pt).


...And where is the "internet tough guy" in his post? Seems like you just can't debate.

Oh by the way: this isn't Twitter.

Jacobthepokemonfreak
29th October 2011, 9:10 PM
Some people are quick to exclude the outside legendaries, but let's not forget that Arceaus and crew appeared in HGSS, AS WELL AS Rayquaza and co. Did the Regis make it? because if not, I think they're the only legendaries who didn't. So there's [recedense for them to incorporate the other legendaries in the capstone game. (caps off the first two)

I think this must have something to do with the regis as it is IMPOSSIBLE to get them unless you have a copy of RSE or have been able to get to the regigigas event which alot of people were unable.

Jacobthepokemonfreak
29th October 2011, 9:14 PM
Australia does get all the major events. We don't get as many chances or events as other country's but we still get all the legendary events plus a few others

No we don't I've only EVER been able to get to the Zoraork event as all the other ones you need wi-fi

The other events I Know were on are:
RSE events (mew and lati@s)
Victini
Zoarok

BCVM22
29th October 2011, 9:56 PM
No we don't I've only EVER been able to get to the Zoraork event as all the other ones you need wi-fi

The other events I Know were on are:
RSE events (mew and lati@s)
Victini
Zoarok

Darkrai (http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/491.shtml)
Arceus (http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/493.shtml)

That's two of Sinnoh's three event critters that had at least one widely-available event in Australia, and the one that didn't (Shaymin) was still made available to Platinum users.

Again, Australia gets the major events just as well as the other regions do. If lack of Wi-Fi is your impediment, again, that's unfortunate but the events are still very widely available, which has always been the goal.

Valoo.
29th October 2011, 10:02 PM
And yet, every sequel game has taken steps to include legendaries and species from previous releases. The birds, the dogs, the Eon Twins, I would be very surprised if Eastern Unova doesn't bleed into the west.
Yes, but there's obviously been a lot of work put into the ruins, and it seems to be an important place. They're not just going to give focus to an old legendary. The birds roamed, the dogs were events, as were the Eon Twins.


Well aren't you just the sweetest little cabrón. :)

No, seriously, stop being an internet tough guy (or should I say Pokemon tough guy?). It's really annoying, rude and unnecessary. #foodforthought

Now that I've said that, I did forget Platinum came before the remakes of G/S (namely because I didn't bother with D/P/Pt).
So basically you have no answer or reply to his intelligent post, so you resorted to trying to insult him.

Jirachi9
30th October 2011, 7:58 AM
No we don't I've only EVER been able to get to the Zoraork event as all the other ones you need wi-fi

The other events I Know were on are:
RSE events (mew and lati@s)
Victini
Zoarok

jirachi was also available at big W and we do get all the events... some u just need wi-fi for

Hexin' Wishes
30th October 2011, 5:06 PM
...And where is the "internet tough guy" in his post? Seems like you just can't debate.
Oh by the way: this isn't Twitter.


So basically you have no answer or reply to his intelligent post, so you resorted to trying to insult him.

Oh, really?

So let's stick it in a pile of ruins deep underneath the sea! It makes tons of sense!

Wait...
That was an incredibly "intelligent" and "mature" post by said poster. Pardon me as I roll my eyes.

However, I personally felt like said poster's post have a condescending tone. I'd hope you'd realize that being condescending has nothing to do with "intelligence". #mymistake

Also, what was there to debate? While my post mainly discussed the poster's tone, I still admitted the poster was right in my oversight regarding release dates. It seems like neither of you actually saw that my post wasn't just "insulting" him (For the record: There is no such thing as "trying" to insult someone. You either do or you don't. #themoreyouknow).

Oh, and by the way, obviously I don't care that this isn't twitter. #whoareyouagain?

----Since I need to clearly mark things, here's me writing a response that is relevant to the discussion. No "insults" past this line.----

But what else could possibly be located at the Abyssal Ruins? It doesn't seem likely that this would be location for the remaining legendaries.

Glover
30th October 2011, 9:13 PM
But what else could possibly be located at the Abyssal Ruins? It doesn't seem likely that this would be location for the remaining legendaries. A whole lot of brand-new water-logged Unown! Phht!

Of the Unova legends, the only ones not given a location were Meloetta (unlikely, considering a hacked Meloetta has already triggered that event) Keldeo (see Meloetta, but most likely considering that an ancient people being swamped with water would consider it the "End of the world"), and Genesect (who's probably tied to Route 117)


Yes, but there's obviously been a lot of work put into the ruins, and it seems to be an important place. They're not just going to give focus to an old legendary. The birds roamed, the dogs were events, as were the Eon Twins. In at least one remake, And I don't recall which, but all three of those had at least one PKMN roaming. And as was said HG/SS had the Weather Trio Tower as well.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think it would be a much epicer game if the Unova capstone game, or a re-make thereof was set in the past, with the player as the "King".

sophmeister
30th October 2011, 9:25 PM
Hmm.. I read the text too. It's sorta cool!

BCVM22
30th October 2011, 9:33 PM
Of the Unova legends, the only ones not given a location were Meloetta (unlikely, considering a hacked Meloetta has already triggered that event) Keldeo (see Meloetta, but most likely considering that an ancient people being swamped with water would consider it the "End of the world"), and Genesect (who's probably tied to Route 117)

None of them have in-game locations because none of them are found in game. They're all direct-receipt in their events.

Meloetta's event activates when you bring it to the Café Sonata in Castelia City.

Keldeo's event activates when you bring it and the three other musketeers to the Moor of Icirrus.

Genesect's event activates when you bring it to the P2 Laboratory on Route 17.


the more I think it would be a much epicer game if the Unova capstone game, or a re-make thereof was set in the past, with the player as the "King".

The chances of this being done are... minimal, at best.

myriada
30th October 2011, 9:44 PM
So what's with the untranslated symbols being marked 3-6 instead of 1-4? I've seen it related to the Pokedex numbers of the three dragons and Landorus, but was that the only reason those numbers were chosen?
I think it's actually because of the "5th" and "7th" corners the king turns. The numbers 5 and 7 are the first two "untranslated" symbols because both are "symbol" followed by "th" (unlike 2nd and 3rd, which have unique endings and can be easily distinguished from that fact). We know one is 5 and one is 7 from the way the corners are on the later floors, but which symbol is which number isn't known.

So those two take up the first two "untranslated" marks, even though we technically know what they are (just not which is which), and the remaining 4 are numbered 3-6. The numbers were not selected based on Pokedex numbers and the symbols' relations to the Pokemon with those numbers is only speculation at this point.In the actual game data, they are represented with simply ③, ④, ⑤ and ⑥. So only Game Freak would be able to answer why. :/
(ENOLA③DETAEFEDGNIK YADANIGNIKDENIOJ④ SGNIEB⑤DELLACGNIK ERUTUFDNAEPOHSIGNIK ⑥GNIKTAERGEHT)
The corner numbers are however, encoded as ordinary 2,3,5 and 7, so whoever popularised the symbols ③④⑤⑥ would know the corner numbers are 2357. (RENROCDN2SNRUTGNIK RENROCDR3SNRUTGNIK RENROCHT5SNRUTGNIK RENROCHT7SNRUTGNIK)

AuraSphere
30th October 2011, 9:50 PM
http://www23.atwiki.jp/pkmnbw/?plugin=ref&serial=11
Those are the four symbols corresponding to 3/4/5/6.

I actually had this theory a while back...it crosses into anime territory but why not?:


Let's be crazy and say the Ruins are part of the Michina Ruins. (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Michina_Town)



3 bears some resemblance to a comet (the circles are the core and the two lines are the tail) like the ones Arceus destroyed to save Michina.

In all seriousness, 4 looks like breasts. Breasts = human. Human = Damos. Damos joined Arceus so they could give life back to Michina.

Two possibilities for number 5:

1. The King could reference Marcus, and the fish-shape could represent the Pokemon and the silver water he used to kill Arceus, with the little hook shape being the Thunderbolt.
2. The King is Arceus. The fish could simply reference Pisces, as in the duo of Dialga and Palkia, and the hook could reference Giratina's claw.

(I think number 2 is more likely)

6 could mean anything, such as Arceus himself. However, it also looks like Marcus's headband.

And before all that stuff, we have lines about 'receiving life' and such.

It isn't very likely, but...yeah. New Arceus event, anyone?
So....

King defeated comet alone.
Breast joined King in a day.
King called Marcus beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King Arceus.

I definitely botched up the second line somehow...

vbgcpacoca
31st October 2011, 3:54 AM
I was thinking about the game and i remembered something( please correct me if i'm wrong)

N found his legendary dragon at the Dragonspirall Tower

i don't remember who said, but someone said that they found clues about the orb that would give the player a chance to capture it's legendary dragon at the Relic Castle

finally, i have a theory that maybe the Abyssal Ruins was connected with the third legendary dragon( Kyurem), and after the event that made the ruins sunk, kyurem went to the Giant Chasm, so he could stay there, and come to think, the Giant Chasm is close to the Abyssal Ruins

Kameinu
3rd November 2011, 8:34 PM
All three are connected somehow. The two dragons being found at Relic and Spiral, and that crown that resembles N's over at Abyssal, plus the exchangeable characters between versions in the Abyssal writtings.

So far I'm sticking with those writtings telling the final outcome of the second Unovian war.

It makes sense for such a king to have brought forth an era of peace after one of such destruction as the second war apparently brought.

Glover
3rd November 2011, 9:12 PM
None of them have in-game locations because none of them are found in game. They're all direct-receipt in their events.

Meloetta's event activates when you bring it to the Café Sonata in Castelia City.

Keldeo's event activates when you bring it and the three other musketeers to the Moor of Icirrus.

Genesect's event activates when you bring it to the P2 Laboratory on Route 17.



The chances of this being done are... minimal, at best.

I know, but a boy can dream, can't he?

Anyway, yes yes, I had forgotten where keldeo went, but even as direct recieve Pokemon, they have some place to "ground" to, we don't have anyone unnaccounted for, was my point, so to put someone known in the Ruins, would mean changing up the original location. Not new territory neccesarily, but in the capstone games, all of the locations were at the very least still used. the Sky Pillar was easier to traverse, Giratine could still get to Turnback, etc. The only other option I see outside of the national Dex (and don't forget too this is Nat Dex side of Unova) is that the ruins will be a place to get ahold of the "Other" Dragon('s stone?), whichever one N doesn't have.

yanmegy423
3rd November 2011, 10:21 PM
Well... I'm still believing that the Abyssal Ruins will house either a rare Hoenn Legendary or rare Sinnoh legendary

Why Sinnoh?
Well... Cynthia like to chill in Undella town so I just thought >.> Steeven in HGSS did actually give you something, so why not Cynthia? (I know that isn't a good reason but it would be nice :))

Alexander18
3rd November 2011, 10:24 PM
Well... I'm still believing that the Abyssal Ruins will house either a rare Hoenn Legendary or rare Sinnoh legendary

Why Sinnoh?
Well... Cynthia like to chill in Undella town so I just thought >.> Steeven in HGSS did actually give you something, so why not Cynthia? (I know that isn't a good reason but it would be nice :))

Agreed, a Hoenn legendary would promote the remakes of Ruby and Sapphire but a sinnoh legendary is nice too.

PokeMaster366
3rd November 2011, 10:27 PM
Personally, imo, it would make sense to put Mew in there. It' the second oldest pokemon in the world and the ancestor to all pokemon! It makes some sense.

It's obvious that a pokemon will be put in there, one that is very old, not obtainabe easily in the last two generations, and makes reference to a possible future game or the myth of the Abyssal Ruins.

Hell. Maybe even Jirachi (probably the most desirable legendary to put there i guess)

Why not Manaphy since the place is underwater?

Yeul
3rd November 2011, 10:53 PM
*looks at the translation*

N's the unwitting subject of an ancient conspiracy.

Schade
4th November 2011, 9:05 PM
Maybe N used to live there (Or maybe not) as the weird language describes a king

Glover
5th November 2011, 2:45 AM
Why not Manaphy since the place is underwater?

I likes this.

Jonah the Slaking
5th November 2011, 4:06 AM
Maybe N used to live there (Or maybe not) as the weird language describes a king

The text has been there for centuries. And N has been king for...a few years?

There is no logic in your statement.

Kameinu
6th November 2011, 12:22 PM
Maybe N used to live there (Or maybe not) as the weird language describes a king

If that has anything to do with N, is that the king is most likely an ancestor of his..

Hatsune Miku
6th November 2011, 8:21 PM
Why not Manaphy since the place is underwater?hmm manaphy in an underwater palace. what about reshiram,groudon,entei or something?

takbir10
6th November 2011, 8:28 PM
I think there is going to be some sort of event with the underwater temple place, at first i thought manaphy was there

Kameinu
6th November 2011, 9:07 PM
I still cannot see how this place is related to any non Unova Legendary that isn't Arceus for the obvious reason.

Landorus, Kyurem, Zekrom and Reshiram fit far more than any of the ones being mentioned.

And just because the temple is underwater now doesn't mean it was dedicated to a water type when it was above water.

Glover
6th November 2011, 9:11 PM
I still cannot see how this place is related to any non Unova Legendary that isn't Arceus for the obvious reason.

Landorus, Kyurem, Zekrom and Reshiram fit far more than any of the ones being mentioned.

And just because the temple is underwater now doesn't mean it was dedicated to a water type when it was above water.

No, but odds are good that it's a water temple, becvause when it was on the surface, at the best it was on the tip of a jutty. Secondly, all of the dragons have a location already. Resh/Zek hve the Tower and the Relic Castle, Lanorus, is just a filler Legendary, and Kyruem is already on the East Side of Unova. Also, what are the odds the ruins will rise in the cap game?

Kameinu
6th November 2011, 10:16 PM
No, but odds are good that it's a water temple, becvause when it was on the surface, at the best it was on the tip of a jutty. Secondly, all of the dragons have a location already. Resh/Zek hve the Tower and the Relic Castle, Lanorus, is just a filler Legendary, and Kyruem is already on the East Side of Unova. Also, what are the odds the ruins will rise in the cap game?

Odds are good how? We find Arceus plates there, and writtings that speak of a King. None of that points out they worshipped a water deity.

Alexandria (Egypt) was (is) located in a coast like area. It wasn't dedicated to any water deity. (And it's got sunken ruins aswell.) If there can be anything to take out from it's coastal location it's that it could've served as a port. And putting a temple dedicated to various deities, or the highest deity you worship in such a place isn't that farfetched, they could've easily chosen that location with the idea to share their ideas with foreigners.

But now I'm straying away from my point. Thing is, more points towards the Unova legends than any of the foreign suggestions being made.

Also, Landorus is not just filler. I don't think it's just coincidence that a shrine dedicated to it is not that far from Undella.

So what if they have a location already? A kingdom cannot have different locations for worship of the same deities? Specially when two, untranslateable characters are interchangeable between versions? The only things interchangeable between the two games are Thundurus/Tornados and Zekrom/Reshiram.

Loco4Treecko
6th November 2011, 10:21 PM
*Maybe* (probably not) it's loosely based on the Water Temple, because it was so hard to navigate/make any progress

My theory was that it was the city that the hero with the other dragon (either Ram/Rom) built, and the Tower was some kind of early Gym. But that's my guess

DragonXmicro
6th November 2011, 10:42 PM
it is possible that king references, well, Mew, Ancestor of Pokémon

BCVM22
6th November 2011, 10:48 PM
Not really. What would be the reasoning behind taking this much-ballyhooed location in Unova, complete with ancient artifacts, cuneiform and likely any number of other elements to which we are not privy and that will be developed further in the future...

...and using it as nothing more than another means of glorifying a Pokémon from four generations in the past?

Hexin' Wishes
6th November 2011, 10:55 PM
Maybe they're planning on adding more Pokemon in Grey (as in, not present in B/W)? Eh, it could be a new method they're trying to hint at with this. I mean who's to say Grey and the Ruby/Sapphire remakes would still be on the DS system?

Glover
6th November 2011, 10:56 PM
Odds are good how? We find Arceus plates there, and writtings that speak of a King. None of that points out they worshipped a water deity.

Alexandria (Egypt) was (is) located in a coast like area. It wasn't dedicated to any water deity. (And it's got sunken ruins aswell.) If there can be anything to take out from it's coastal location it's that it could've served as a port. And putting a temple dedicated to various deities, or the highest deity you worship in such a place isn't that farfetched, they could've easily chosen that location with the idea to share their ideas with foreigners.

But now I'm straying away from my point. Thing is, more points towards the Unova legends than any of the foreign suggestions being made.

Also, Landorus is not just filler. I don't think it's just coincidence that a shrine dedicated to it is not that far from Undella.

So what if they have a location already? A kingdom cannot have different locations for worship of the same deities? Specially when two, untranslateable characters are interchangeable between versions? The only things interchangeable between the two games are Thundurus/Tornados and Zekrom/Reshiram.

I think we;re all starting to go around on the same points. The Arceus plates are a good argument, but so is the "they needed top put them soemwhaere since items can't be transferred"

The Dorus legens fill the same plug that the Birds, Dogs, and Regi filled, although they do it alongside the Musketeers. They aren't a starring trio like Zekrom's trio is, their just more good story. Landorus is a Pokemon of bounitful crops and rich soil, what's that got to do with a water temple/temple in the water the stories of the world endind, ad how that temple got underwater.


Maybe they're planning on adding more Pokemon in Grey (as in, not present in B/W)? Eh, it could be a new method they're trying to hint at with this. I mean who's to say Grey and the Ruby/Sapphire remakes would still be on the DS system?

Because there isn't another handheld out there, and as I understand it, won't be for a while?

These aren't really built to be console games, or go into that market. Also, I don't have a Wii and would be very disappointed if my favorite DS games when t to Wii.

Hexin' Wishes
6th November 2011, 10:59 PM
Because there isn't another handheld out there, and as I understand it, won't be for a while?

These aren't really built to be console games, or go into that market. Also, I don't have a Wii and would be very disappointed if my favorite DS games when t to Wii.

But isn't the 3DS technically the current handheld console? That's what I meany considering B/W are DS games.

Glover
6th November 2011, 11:02 PM
But isn't the 3DS technically the current handheld console? That's what I mean considering B/W are DS games.

Rightm but it's an improvemnt of the original and not a totally new format like the Advance was to Color, and B/W are capable of using the 3DS abilities as well.

Hexin' Wishes
6th November 2011, 11:07 PM
Rightm but it's an improvemnt of the original and not a totally new format like the Advance was to Color, and B/W are capable of using the 3DS abilities as well.

Yeah, but most places do consider it to be the successor to the DS (plus, aren't the game cartridges slightly different?).

I wouldn't really know the extent to B/W using the 3DS abilities but I did a quick google search and apparently it doesn't utilize them (http://www.1up.com/news/pokemon-black-white-no-3ds-functionality).

BCVM22
6th November 2011, 11:15 PM
Rightm but it's an improvemnt of the original and not a totally new format like the Advance was to Color, and B/W are capable of using the 3DS abilities as well.

No. The 3DS is completely new hardware and a completely new break in the generations of such, just as the Color was to the original, just as the Advance was to the Color, just as the DS was to the Advance. It is not simply another permutation of the DS, as were the Lite, the DSi and the XL.

Again, the DS is dead. No one, much less Nintendo and the developers under their umbrella, is developing software of any note for defunct hardware anymore. The 3DS is the present and the future of Nintendo's handheld efforts.

Black and White are not capable of using the 3DS enhancements that weren't already present on the DSi.

Glover
6th November 2011, 11:18 PM
Well, looks like I'm corrected. I thoight I read it was at the tour, but I must be wrong. But if I have tp gp by a new machne, there'll be much nasty thoughts going their way.

Hexin' Wishes
6th November 2011, 11:30 PM
I actually don't mind having to get a new console to play the third version. I think it'll actually add to the appeal of (and give a reason for) the third version since the 3DS has slightly improved graphics and would even present the Unova storyline in 3D (which would hurt my eyes but whatever).

Anyways, like I said before, I hope that these Ruins are actually for a brand new Pokemon not even included in B/W when it's elaborated on for Grey.

Kameinu
6th November 2011, 11:45 PM
Landorus is a Pokemon of bounitful crops and rich soil, what's that got to do with a water temple/temple in the water the stories of the world endind, ad how that temple got underwater.

They're a trio said to have ravaged the land (well the obvious two).


Upon visiting the Abundant Shrine, the player will cross a group of three children arguing just before the shrine. They collectively tell the a folktale of how "Great Landorus" allegedly punished two other legendary Pokémon (Tornadus and Thundurus) for wreaking massive destruction across the land with their ferocious gales and fierce thunderstorms. As such, the thankful inhabitants of the land—saved from the danger posed by the Cyclone and Bolt Strike Pokémon—constructed a shrine in honor of Landorus.

A trio capable of destruction. Atleast two of it's members most likely not welcomed, or misunderstood by people at some point in time.

This three quite possibly have the power to create tsunamis, enough power to sink a temple.

I'm not saying this is how it went down, and their role can be interpreted in different way. But that people should stop suggesting things without looking into them more carefully. The Kami Trio being somehow involved at the moment makes more sense, and is more likey than suggesting things like Kyogre or Manaphy.

Glover
6th November 2011, 11:49 PM
They're a trio said to have ravaged the land (well the obvious two).



A trio capable of destruction. Atleast two of it's members most likely not welcomed, or misunderstood by people at some point in time.

This three quite possibly have the power to create tsunamis, enough power to sink a temple.

I'm not saying this is how it went down, and their role can be interpreted in different way. But that people should stop suggesting things without looking into them more carefully. The Kami Trio being somehow involved at the moment makes more sense, and is more likey than suggesting things like Kyogre or Manaphy.

But the Kami's are based on the growth of crops though and not out and out mass destruction. (See: the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock) especially since this is NY based and Plymouth ain't that far away. Were Landorus something else, I can give that to you, but he's a grower, not a savior of a nation.

Kameinu
7th November 2011, 12:02 AM
But the Kami's are based on the growth of crops though and not out and out mass destruction. (See: the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock) especially since this is NY based and Plymouth ain't that far away. Were Landorus something else, I can give that to you, but he's a grower, not a savior of a nation.

No one is calling Landorus a nation savior. Just that if you look carefully at the writtings the Kami trio fits better than any of the non Unova suggestions.

The waves things could've been a natural disaster, or something that could've accidentaly happened while Landorus was stopping, or stopped the other two.

But that entry in the writtings could be metaphorical or something else.

And the "called ? beings". Called Landorus beings, realizing the Kami trio are more than just mindless creatures. That they actually help their people live on.

Once more, that's all I'm trying to really point out. Before jumping the gun and throwing names not related to Unova, look at Unova itself first.

Glover
7th November 2011, 12:14 AM
No one is calling Landorus a nation savior. Just that if you look carefully at the writtings the Kami trio fits better than any of the non Unova suggestions.

The waves things could've been a natural disaster, or something that could've accidentaly happened while Landorus was stopping, or stopped the other two.

But that entry in the writtings could be metaphorical or something else.

And the "called ? beings". Called Landorus beings, realizing the Kami trio are more than just mindless creatures. That they actually help their people live on.

Once more, that's all I'm trying to really point out. Before jumping the gun and throwing names not related to Unova, look at Unova itself first.

That's fine, but we have looked at Unova, and some don't feel anyone from Unova fits. Which is why I said that we're starting to go round and round on points, each person's take has evolved to the point where we don;t know which is right we're "battling" each other on "I'm Right", and until GF relases Grey, we won't. It may be that there are simply more to the older characters' backstory than the Unovan ones adding influence to opinions, but still.

NAd it may be that there's absolutely nothign there, and the programmers are having a good, hardy laugh at us for all of this.

BCVM22
7th November 2011, 12:36 AM
But if I have tp gp by a new machne, there'll be much nasty thoughts going their way.

The better part of a year of hearing sentiments like this and their cause still baffles me. Why are people so up in arms about eventually having to buy new hardware if they wish to play the eventual new entries in their favorite series? Isn't it just about the most consistent thing in video games, that new hardware comes out every 5-7 years or so?

Glover
7th November 2011, 12:41 AM
The better part of a year of hearing sentiments like this and their cause still baffles me. Why are people so up in arms about eventually having to buy new hardware if they wish to play the eventual new entries in their favorite series? Isn't it just about the most consistent thing in video games, that new hardware comes out every 5-7 years or so?

If you play a lot of video games, yes. But PKMN is the only thing I really play, I don't have the time for a wide array of gaming, so I stick with what I enjoy. Granted, if Greey+Hoenn+Gen6 is all 3DS, I'll have no choice. But on the principal of it all, I hate having redundent devices like this. Also, I just picked up a second DS so I could do some inrteraction between G4 and G5. if Grey is SPECIFICALLY for 3DS, that means three devices for s2.5 sereis of games.

BCVM22
7th November 2011, 1:39 AM
Granted, if Greey+Hoenn+Gen6 is all 3DS

if Grey is SPECIFICALLY for 3DS

There's very little ambiguity to this, as we've discussed.


But on the principal of it all, I hate having redundent devices like this.

But if the 3DS does things your previous DS units can't - and it does - doesn't that exempt it from being redundant, since it serves a different purpose, even if it's not a vastly different one?


Also, I just picked up a second DS so I could do some inrteraction between G4 and G5. that means three devices for s2.5 sereis of games.

Would you have them purposely stunt the progress of a key franchise by producing core titles for defunct hardware because you just bought a second DS? I'm not accusing you of calling for this, but I am putting the question to you.

Hexin' Wishes
9th November 2011, 10:36 PM
But on the principal of it all, I hate having redundent devices like this.

The 3DS is not redundant, it's the next generation of the series. The second DS you picked up is redundant though. I'm not trashing your decisions, I just find it odd you'd pin the label "redundant" on the current generation (which can do the g4 to g5 interaction just like the previous generation did) instead of the previous generation you just bought.

vbgcpacoca
12th November 2011, 1:11 PM
Guys i was looking at one site, and one image was released in japan saying this,
1: Cobalion image
2: Terrakion image
3: Virizion image
4: Kyurem
5: ?
6: ?

5 and 6 are going to be released at the end of february

putting in the text we have

King defeated Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion alone.
Kyurem joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

What do you think.

SilentSpecter36
12th November 2011, 2:33 PM
Guys i was looking at one site, and one image was released in japan saying this,
1: Cobalion image
2: Terrakion image
3: Virizion image
4: Kyurem
5: ?
6: ?

5 and 6 are going to be released at the end of february

putting in the text we have

King defeated Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion alone.
Kyurem joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

What do you think.

Could you give us link? If so the format of this would make it look correct to me.

vbgcpacoca
12th November 2011, 2:49 PM
here it is the link. http://poke1000.org/

but the site is in portuguese

Glover
12th November 2011, 5:58 PM
Google translate can fix that. I got a fiarly readable translation, and nothing mentions the games at all. The purple figures look an awful lot like figurines. What I do find interesting, is the sectio at the bottom comparing Ky and Zek, that might back up the thery of Kyruem being the disgarded body, but who knows.

Why would the King defeat the Muskedeer trio though? Unless its to mean he convinced them humanity wasn't truly evil, or he is in fact one of the warring Kings, who was "Good" to his people...

Oh, and the "5 beings" implies more than one Pokemon, so I don't see how image 5 is gonna be the asnwer.

Valoo.
12th November 2011, 6:50 PM
Oh, and the "5 beings" implies more than one Pokemon.
No it doesn't. The image five is a place-holder for what the actual Pokemon is.

Grei
12th November 2011, 7:43 PM
Guys i was looking at one site, and one image was released in japan saying this,
1: Cobalion image
2: Terrakion image
3: Virizion image
4: Kyurem
5: ?
6: ?

5 and 6 are going to be released at the end of february

putting in the text we have

King defeated Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion alone.
Kyurem joined King in a day.
King called ⑤ beings.
King is hope and future.
The great King ⑥.

What do you think.

You have a number of things wrong here.

That image does not correspond at all to the Abyssal Ruins. That image is related to merchandise, and there is no correlation at all to the game's content in this case. Therefore, your logic for Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, and Kyurem does not make sense.

Further, those numbers are placeholders. They do not actually indicate any sort of numerical value; the 3, the 4, the 5, and the 6 are just characters used to hold the place of the symbols of the Abyssal Ruins' message that do not have an English translation. It is believed that those four symbols represent Pokemon or names, but again, they do not relate to any sort of numerical value. Those four numbers could have been replaced with "dog," "lampshade," "jumping," and "PlayStation," and their purpose would be the same.

You could have read the first post to get clued in on this, js.

Kitsunetsuki
14th November 2011, 1:18 AM
Will this be a hint of what's coming? I loved the ruins. I felt such a mysterious energy the first time I dove and visited the ruins, probably these ruins could mean something realted to a prior event in the game.

Hexin' Wishes
15th November 2011, 1:01 AM
Will this be a hint of what's coming? I loved the ruins. I felt such a mysterious energy the first time I dove and visited the ruins, probably these ruins could mean something realted to a prior event in the game.

Right now it's all speculation but it does seem likely.

Kitsunetsuki
15th November 2011, 9:16 PM
Right now it's all speculation but it does seem likely.

I believe it can have a kind of relationship with the commonly called "Pokémon Gray". The only thing I'm truly waiting for is to see if they're going to make the third version or not, as Tajiri Satoshi didn't even plan to make it at once.

Alexander18
18th November 2011, 10:46 PM
I believe it can have a kind of relationship with the commonly called "Pokémon Gray". The only thing I'm truly waiting for is to see if they're going to make the third version or not, as Tajiri Satoshi didn't even plan to make it at once.

I believe there will be, Kyurem needs to be updated and I feel that there are stuff like gym leader rematches that need to be done.