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View Full Version : A 1st Generation Competitive Team?! Blasphemy!



Aquadon
18th June 2011, 8:58 AM
So, a while back my friend decided to start playing Yellow again, and start playing competitively. While I liked the idea, I was to absorbed into Pokemon White at the time and didn't think twice about going back to my Gameboy. But once the novelty of 5th Gen wore off (and Magnezone became a pain to attempt to make), I decided to try it out and see what I could do. While I'm not on simulators or whatnot, I have returned to Stadium and actually have started a good following at my school for Competitive 1st Gen Battling. So, I decided to step up to the plate and Try out a Pokemon Yellow Team. While it may be a little standard, I have made a few tweaks that I was hoping to get input about. Also, while there are 6 Pokemon here (this is a RMT after all), I have about 10 OTHER Pokemon that I might rotate between, but I wouldn't post this in the initial post, and only if other people are interested in seeing the other Pokemon. So here it is:

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/81/103Exeggutor_RG.png
Exeggutor
Psychic
Mega Drain
Leech Seed
Sleep Powder

Exeggutor has always been on my To-Do list, and finally I was able to stop procrastinating and see the 1st Gen Monster he is. Psychic is a broken type in Generation I, and 2 of Exeggutor's 7 Weaknesses disappear, while most others aren't very prominent in Generation I. That leaves Ice moves as the only prominent type Exeggutor is weak to, which allows him to be an effective Defensive beast. Psychic is obvious STAB, which is only resisted by other Psychic Pokemon. In terms of Tanking Exeggutor technically has 2 Healing options: Mega Drain, which has Grass STAB and ruins Rhydon/Golem's day, and Leech Seed, a personal favorite move of mine and an interesting Status option (instead of Stun Spore). Leech Seed also has the fun of sapping Chansey and cut down on her time as a powerhouse, forcing her to switch lest she starts hemorrhaging HP. Really a fun Pokemon to work with.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f3/131Lapras_RG.png
Lapras
Ice Beam
Body Slam
Confuse Ray
Sing

Ice-types may not be the best Defensive types, Lapras is no slouch in soaking up hits with its 125 Base HP Stat, and firing back with Ice/Normal coverage (surprisingly enough, Normal/Ice was like Normal/Water in Gen I, and gave Neutral Coverage). Lapras can actually afford to not learn any TMs at all, and use Ice Beam for STAB and a jump on Grass types expecting Water moves (although, Surf isn't really Lapras' gig), while Body Slam is one of the most coveted Moves in the game, and gives Lapras a chance to Paralyze an unsuspecting Sweeper. Confuse Ray ups the ante with a chance for Parafusion, and in a pinch, Sing can incapacitate a supposed Counter so something more effective can switch in Safely, as a Waking Pokemon won't immediately attack.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b7/065Alakazam_RG.png
Alakazam REPLACED VICTREEBEL
Psychic
Recover
Reflect
Seismic Toss

As Fleischmann noted in the post below, this team lacked a means of covering Stall. Well Alakazam, although not quite what he was mapped out to do, is somewhat of the answer to this problem. With a Base 135 Special (which covers both Sp. ATK and Sp. DEF), he can take Special hits like nothing and Recover the damage. Reflect is also a healthy option to make Alakazam MUCH more Bulky, as in this case he now has Double the Defense he normally has (although his HP is still nothing). While many people expect Alakazam to be a Status machine, this Alakazam is more tailored towards the offensive nature, using Seismic Toss as a means of taking down other Specially oriented Pokemon (like other Alakazam for example). Psychic was for obvious STAB. This is probably my least favorite Pokemon on the team currently though, so if there’s any ideas on a Pokemon to swap out, Alakazam is probably going to be swapped.


http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/0b/051Dugtrio_RG.png
Dugtrio REPLACED RHYDON

Earthquake
Slash
Sand Attack
Mimic

Dugtrio is my replacement to both Persian and Rhydon in one sitting, which comes at somewhat of a surprise. Fortunately, like Water/Normal, Ground/Normal gets almost perfect coverage in Gen I, with Aerodactyl as the only Pokemon to resist it. Earthquake is obvious STAB, and with a 187.52% chance to Critical Hit with Slash (you read that right), this thing is going to pack some punch, even if it’s only from an 80 Base Attack Stat. The other two moves are when things get interesting. While Evasion Clause is usually up, that doesn’t mean that Dugtrio can’t force some switches with a Sand-Attack, leaving the opponent frustrated. Moreover, the lack of accuracy coupled with Dugtrio’s speed changes Mimic into a gimmicky idea into a potent threat. Dugtrio can Sand Attack an opposing Sleeper, Mimic its Sleep Powder, and then start causing Sleep of it’s own. Also, a Ground typing can mean that it could also switch in and Mimic Thunder Wave with zero detriment. Although far from the powerhouse Rhydon was, Dugtrio is sure to score some good Revenge Kills.


http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/24/080Slowbro_RG.png
Slowbro
Surf
Psychic
Thunder Wave
Amnesia

The original Bro. Surf/Psychic is a powerful STAB, only really countered by Starmie, Exeggutor, and other Slowbro. While also Paralysis reliant, Slowbro has the ability to guarantee Paralysis with Thunder Wave, which is only stopped by Ground Pokemon, who wouldn't risk a chance to be Surfed to death. Amnesia is one of the very reliable Stat-up moves, as it's like an Uber Calm Mind. If Slowbro is given the chance to set up an Amnesia or 2 (God forbid he got 3), it's really only a Critical Hit that will save you from being wrecked by Slowbro's moves.

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/da/149Dragonite_RG.png
Dragonite REPLACED PERSIAN
Wrap
Thunder Wave
Surf
Hyper Beam

With the addition of Dugtrio, Persian’s critical niche is no longer mandatory, meaning that I can switch him out for a more Bulky Normal Monster. The thing is, I was torn between Snorlax and Dragonite, and Dragonite came out the clear winner in my book. Despite NOT being a Normal type, Dragonite lacks STAB, and Normal moves still work amazing on him. I always enjoy the trollish Wrap of 1st Generation, and Dragonite gets to use it in full force, coming off of a Base 134 ATK stat. After Thunder Wave is used to slow uber fast opponents, Dragonite will pretty much always go first, meaning that I can stall out the opponent into Hyper Beam KO range. Speaking of which, even though I’m planning on playing in Stadium, Hyper Beam appealed to me as a good finishing move, and if I’m not on Stadium it becomes even more potent with the lack of recharging (pending a KO). A Base 150 Move with a Base 134 ATK is no laughing matter, as it can maul even the healthiest Pokemon. Surf was for coverage against Rock-types, and works well with Dragonite’s still decent special. Also, imagine Surfing on a Dragonite: Pretty Awesome, no?



So right now that's what I have. I would love more Speed on this Team, but at the same time these guys are able to pick up the slack and hit hard. Unfortunately while more TMs would be lovely, the whole In-Game thing has forced me to stick to only 1 of each TM, which really is a kick in the balls. I would love feedback, but in this section I'm not sure what I'll get. Also if requested, I would love to post my Reserve Pokemon. But for now; I wanna be the very best.

Dr.Fleischmann
23rd June 2011, 10:41 PM
problems:

1. I see that you have no recovery excepting indirektly by Exeggutor at all. Stall (if you can call it stall in RBY) will cause heavy pains.
Examples
Chansey walls 3 of you
Tangela also 3
Snorlax 4

The only real Stall-Breaking capability is Slowbro with his Ability to boost.
You will probably have to take the first casualitys within the first 15 turns what opens weaknesses.


2. You have quite a slow team wich means you have problems against offense unless you get a chance to paralyse them early. Persian is the only one that can be called a revenge-killer. Tauros, Starmie, Gengar or Elektrabuzz do easy damage (especially with prediction) against you evrytime they can get in.

3 Sets:
- You have three sleep moves - too much for sleep clause, 2 are completely enough
- Persian does not take any profit of Screech (only Rhydon). The movepool however is very limited. If you don't ad another physical attacken, substitute (makes Prediction more easy) or Bodyslam (para-chance) will make more sence
- Wrap is cheap^^

So i would say, that you have two possibilities

1. Go the offense way and take one or two of the fast, hard-hitting pacemakers of RBY like Alakazam, Starmie, Tauros, Gengar and replace Victreebel (which is the least necessary one of your Team cause of the issues I mentioned above) and maybe another one (maybe Lapras)

2. Go the rather defensive-balanced way - for example by replacing Victreebel with Chansey or Snorlax and giving Rest to your relatively bulky Lapras (over Sing or Confuse Ray, because both are a little bit haxy). Perhaps you should give Slowbro a Rest instead of TW, too, because you probably have enough status-moves - that hast to be tried out (clone your TMs on Blue/Red and trade back).


That was my Advice. Now its up to you to decide what you want to change. Then post it again for further rating.

mfg Dr.Fleischmann

noob21
23rd June 2011, 11:52 PM
Wheres the ev split and natures? Also the items and abilities?

Aquadon
24th June 2011, 12:21 AM
Wheres the ev split and natures? Also the items and abilities?

Heheheheheh, funny thing about Generation 1: You got no attached Items, no Abilities, and No real Effort Value Cap. Really changes up the game.

Dr. Fleischmann: Thank you for the time to look at this set. I'll admit that I'm really partial to slower Pokemon, which will definitely make for some trouble with certain Sweepers (I've been a little wary about Starmie; Alakazam doesn't seem to be too much of a problem). Weird thing about RBY is that you have all these really fast Pokemon, and then there's a fair drop in OU from 95 (Jynx) to 60 (Lapras). I guess I should attempt to make use of more Revenge Killers though (I have a Dugtrio and an Alakazam I've been training for this case). In terms of recovery, there are very few Pokemon that can make use of it outside Rest. Chansey, Alakazam, and Starmie come to mind, and while I have been looking at Chansey (although in a little eccentric fashion), it might still be worthwhile to attempt Alakazam as an attacker. And I know you find Wrap to be cheap, but I personally love Wrap, and in Gen I surprisingly you can still switch while Wrap is taking place.

Right now, I have these possible replacements:
Dragonite
Alakazam
Dugtrio
Snorlax
Venusaur
Cloyster

I would think Dugtrio would make a fair replacement to Rhydon, Snorlax (though slower), or Dragonite to a lesser extent can replace Persian, and Alakazam could replace many things (Victreebel seems to be the prime suspect though). Any opinions about those Pokemon?

Leche
29th June 2011, 11:34 PM
Wheres the ev split and natures? Also the items and abilities?Lol this is gen 1 d00d

Aquadon
8th July 2011, 4:41 AM
Bumping for some Gen I advice. I know it's a little old, but surely someone, ANYONE can give Advice for the original Metagame!

spuds4ever
9th July 2011, 12:02 AM
Good old 1st gen. I think you should replace Persian with Gengar, it's a much better revenge killer and is about unstoppable in 1st gen with only really ground for a weakness which can be countered with ice beam and Gengar will usually be faster anyway (with the exception of Dugtrio which is also a viable option). I don't really see Victreebel's purpose in this team as, sure, he makes a good mid-battle threat but most of his job is already taken by the more versatile Exeggutor. I think you could use a good wall here like snorlax or Chansey.

Just my 2 cents.

Aquadon
12th July 2011, 5:45 AM
Updated the Team; Swapped out Persian, Rhydon, and Victreebel for Alakazam, Dragonite, and Dugtrio. Kind of miss Victreebel on the team though, might bring him back later if I don't like Alakazam.

fire_man
15th July 2011, 6:27 AM
I'm confused...is this a 1st gen team only competing against 1st gen?....if not than the EV's natures and abilities still apply.

Aquadon
15th July 2011, 7:19 PM
I'm confused...is this a 1st gen team only competing against 1st gen?....if not than the EV's natures and abilities still apply.

This is a Pokemon Team for the RBY Metagame, as opposed to something from the 3rd Generation on (when the EV cap and Natures were established). I could still not need EVs for 2nd Gen too, although at that point I could use some Held Items, which are also not viable in the original Games.

legendarypokemonmaster
23rd July 2011, 8:05 PM
Looks good. I don't know too much about first gen, but is there a reason you didn't pick Mewtwo? Also, I don't think there are many bug types, but you should add a fire move/type if they are since they would threaten your 3 psychic types. You could do the MissingNo/M' glitch to get more TMs.

irock245
27th July 2011, 10:37 PM
dude, mewtwo was so uber then. This is RBY OU.

Aquadon
28th July 2011, 7:49 AM
Looks good. I don't know too much about first gen, but is there a reason you didn't pick Mewtwo? Also, I don't think there are many bug types, but you should add a fire move/type if they are since they would threaten your 3 psychic types. You could do the MissingNo/M' glitch to get more TMs.


dude, mewtwo was so uber then. This is RBY OU.

Pretty much this. I guess we've called no Legendaries, although I have no issue with the birds (or maybe Mew), but that's it. Mewtwo is too powerful for our battle. I might be down for Fire Blast on Slowbro, but other than that I'm not sure what Fire move to add (honestly, the only 2 Bug moves to be worried of are Twinneedle on Beedrill, and Pin Missile on Jolteon, both of which aren't that threatening).

arceusvictini
1st August 2011, 8:27 PM
This: Generation I

The EV system was introduced in Generation I, where it was also called Stat Experience or Stat Exp.
The Pokémon data structure contains two EV bytes for each the five stats (HP, Attack, Defense, Speed and Special), starting at zero when caught and with a maximum EV of 65535 for each stat. When a Pokémon is defeated, its base stats are converted to effort points and then added to the EVs. For example, defeating a Mew grants 100 effort points to each EV. (Defeating 656 Mew, therefore, will give a Pokémon maximum EVs in each stat.)
EVs are factored into the Pokémon's stats when it levels up. Additionally, EVs are calculated into stats when a Pokémon is taken from Bill's PC; this is called the box trick. A Pokémon which reaches level 100 can continue to accrue EVs up to the maximum of 65535 in each stat, and use the box trick to have those EVs factored in.
Vitamins add 2560 to one stat's EV, but cannot raise a stat above 25600. Unlike the Exp. Share in later games, the Exp. All did not share EVs.
At level 100, the formula for determining the stat difference between a Pokémon trained in that stat and an untrained Pokémon is http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/be/EV_Formula_GenI.png

Aquadon
29th August 2011, 6:21 PM
*Bumping after a long time*

So I understand how the Stat Experience works, but wouldn't that imply 65535 in each stat anyway would be the sensible thing to do? I've been leveling up manually, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Also, any other great ideas for this Team? It starts battling on Friday!!

Vandslaux
30th August 2011, 12:16 AM
Maybe Chansey over Alakazam? Base 105 Special and base 250 HP is nothing to scoff at, with a gigantic special movepool and a reliable healing move in Softboiled.

Aquadon
8th September 2011, 7:15 PM
Chansey seemed appealing, and I'm considering trying a Counter variant to Chansey, but for now I'm sticking with Alakazam. If I come across a Chansey with Sing, I'll definitely consider using her.

Haru Glory
22nd September 2011, 2:37 PM
Chansey seemed appealing, and I'm considering trying a Counter variant to Chansey, but for now I'm sticking with Alakazam. If I come across a Chansey with Sing, I'll definitely consider using her.

You should use it on your own. Give her Sing, Softboiled, Ice Beam and Seismic Toss. It wrecks **** apart.