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3.14kachu
7th July 2011, 9:11 PM
Dragons are a huge part of OU nowadays, with the newly powerful Multiscale Dragonite, as well as Haxorus and the now-OU-not-Ubers-for-some-reason Latios. So I have to ask, how do you deal with them? If a team has even the slightest of Dragon weaknesses, they will tear it apart.

What are the best pokemon and movesets to deal with Dragon-types?
Heatran? Skarmory? Magnezone? Ice-shard Donphan?

Blue Harvest
8th July 2011, 1:00 AM
Cresselia is probably the best overall, though its garbage in OU due to sand and tons of things that setup on it. Well, I guess Hydreigon beats it.

Bronzong can take down most dragons barring Mold Breaker Haxorus. In rain he hard counters all dragons besides Specs Latios Surf and Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake, something very few others can do.

Balloon Heatran can sort of check them but isn't very reliable.

Skarmory takes Outrages and counters Haxorus like its nothing. He can survive a few Fire Fang / Punches but just barely.

Scizor can switch in on most of them and *kind of* win. He hits all common OU dragons for at least 65% which is easy to achieve with Stealth Rocks / Sandstorm / whatever.

Specially Defensive Jirachi can take everything Specially based dragons can dish out and annihilate them with Paralysis and repeated Iron Heads.

Mamoswine deserves mention because he can easily strip 80% off all but the most defensive dragons with Choice Band Ice Shard. He also has decent bulk, enough to switch in on an Earthquake or Dragon Claw ONCE.

Ferrothorn in rain laughs at all dragons barring LO Fire Blasts and +2 Haxorus Brick Break / Earthquakes. However it can't really kill them without Gyro Ball (which is a bad move most of the time).

asterat
8th July 2011, 1:21 AM
How is gyro ball bad, blue harvest? Mixit with curse, you absorb outrage like lefties damage, hit like... 300 power and kill stuff in general

chanseychansey77
8th July 2011, 1:57 AM
Other Dragons. At least one, anyway. [/thread].

Isn't Weavile pretty good nowadays too?

Medicham's Hat
8th July 2011, 2:08 AM
I use Revenge Killing Weavile. But Metagross with Ice Punch can work pretty well in my experience.

kaiser soze
8th July 2011, 2:51 AM
max speed + shell smash cloyster from experience works well. icicle spear can rip through multiscale too. the trick is to get a chance to set up. most dragons lack priority too

irock245
8th July 2011, 2:54 AM
damnit, i just realize di need an ice type move on my team...

but regardless, just slap a decent steel type and your are pretty much set with all but earthquakes and brick breaks (yes haxorus i am looking at you.) Heatran in my experience works super well, was gliscor to stop other coverage attacks aimed at your face. Not to be off topic, but if you read ALL my posts, you will find like 5 refrences to heatran in them. I have a heatran addiction. WTF?

Tucan9999
8th July 2011, 3:43 AM
My Electivire with Ice Punch works pretty well.

Eaglehawk
8th July 2011, 3:48 AM
Cresselia is probably the best overall, though its garbage in OU due to sand and tons of things that setup on it. Well, I guess Hydreigon beats it.

Bronzong can take down most dragons barring Mold Breaker Haxorus. In rain he hard counters all dragons besides Specs Latios Surf and Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake, something very few others can do.

Balloon Heatran can sort of check them but isn't very reliable.

Skarmory takes Outrages and counters Haxorus like its nothing. He can survive a few Fire Fang / Punches but just barely.

Scizor can switch in on most of them and *kind of* win. He hits all common OU dragons for at least 65% which is easy to achieve with Stealth Rocks / Sandstorm / whatever.

Specially Defensive Jirachi can take everything Specially based dragons can dish out and annihilate them with Paralysis and repeated Iron Heads.

Mamoswine deserves mention because he can easily strip 80% off all but the most defensive dragons with Choice Band Ice Shard. He also has decent bulk, enough to switch in on an Earthquake or Dragon Claw ONCE.

Ferrothorn in rain laughs at all dragons barring LO Fire Blasts and +2 Haxorus Brick Break / Earthquakes. However it can't really kill them without Gyro Ball (which is a bad move most of the time).
Specially defensive Heatran can take Specs Draco Meteor from a large number of things, as well as some Outrages, but that's pretty much all it can do.

I've seen teams that rely on Snorlax as a Special Dragon counter. Choice banded versions use Pursuit on a DMed Latios to get rid of it while sponging a Specs Boosted DM.

Basically, anything that is Steel-type or has an insane amount of (Sp.) Defense should be able to counter Dragons pretty well. As for offensively, Terrakion can revenge kill most to all of them with CC/SE/XS movepool.

Karzon
8th July 2011, 4:12 AM
If you can afford the fighting weakness, Expert belt Weavile is as good as it gets.

Barring that, I've found Ice Punch Ddance Scrafty to work nicely.

JRCxyz
8th July 2011, 4:34 AM
My Electivire with Ice Punch works pretty well.

Well, it depends. Electivire isn't really a counter; it's only a revenge killer. Even then, to be able to revenge kill dragons you'll need Choice Scarf and that's to outspeed the ones that are unboosted. Vire can't catch up with +1 Salamence, Latios, Haxorus (I believe) or Kingdra in rain. So yeah. I wouldn't recommend you to count on Vire to solve any potential dragon issues.

DrasticPhase
8th July 2011, 6:06 AM
I like how my magnzone can survive Latios's attack and annoy them with sub :3
And ferrothorn is pretty good
Basically steels can counter dragons

Cosmic Fury
8th July 2011, 6:09 AM
Weavile with an Ice-type attack, while it's holding either a Life Orb, Expert Belt, Icicle Plate, or Ice Gem will bring almost any dragon down in one, if not two hits. Those things simply tear through anything in their way--if you not only train them properly, but also know what you're doing.

If I could get Ice Punch on my Shiny Weavile, I'd be a REALLY happy camper.

252 EV's in Attack and Speed will give them both the speed and the power to deal some real punishment to almost anything that sits (or stands, or floats...) in front of them.

SaturnCoffee
8th July 2011, 4:23 PM
I usually revenge kill with an ice beam from scarfed Nidoking, if that doesn't work I can use counter on my max defense Meganium to handle most of the physical dragons.

RifleAvenger
8th July 2011, 7:45 PM
How is gyro ball bad, blue harvest? Mixit with curse, you absorb outrage like lefties damage, hit like... 300 power and kill stuff in general

Most Ferrothorn are meant to spread paralysis, leech seeds, and hazards as well as kill water types. Gyro ball, while potentially highly damaging, has only 8 PP max, and it and curse take up move slots that Ferrothorn could be using for support purposes.

Not "bad" perhaps, but it's also not the optimal use for a Ferrothorn either.

Blue Cobra
8th July 2011, 11:16 PM
I would say the best counter for Dragon types is Heatran with Air Balloon.
It can resist their STAB moves and can't be taken down with Earthquake in the first round.

It can hit dragons Hard with STAB steel moves, and it can even run Dragon Pulse.
It has a nice special attack too, which can really hurt.

JRCxyz
9th July 2011, 4:03 AM
Kingdra lols at Heatran.

jesusfreak94
9th July 2011, 4:22 AM
Lol Blue Harvest, you took all the fun out of this. XD


I would say the best counter for Dragon types is Heatran with Air Balloon.
It can resist their STAB moves and can't be taken down with Earthquake in the first round.

It can hit dragons Hard with STAB steel moves, and it can even run Dragon Pulse.
It has a nice special attack too, which can really hurt.

Heatran can make a good check, but not always. Lati@s, Kingdra, and Hydreigon can kill it with Surf (or another Water move in Kingdra's case) if it's not careful. It can do well against many forms of Salamence, Dragonite, and Hydreigon lacking any Water moves, but it falls to Earthquake when its Balloon is popped. I suppose it could also handle most Lati@s variants not carrying Surf, but its such a common move that Heatran can't ensure a safe switch-in.

I'd say that Bronzong is the best general switch-in to Dragon attacks (especially in the Rain) because of its great typing, Levitate, and its great overall defenses. Cresselia would be much better as a Dragon counter if the rest of the OU metagame didn't hate it so much. Ferrothorn makes a nice check to Dragons lacking a Fire move, and sometimes those that do while in the Rain. Jirachi and Skarmory also do fantastic in handling special and physical onslaughts from Dragons, respectively. Well, those are my top picks.

3.14kachu
9th July 2011, 6:02 AM
Okay, so here's my question. In light of all of this, should Skarmory, Bronzong, and Air Balloon Heatran alone justify a dragon using Brick Break instead of Earthquake for coverage?

Blue Harvest
9th July 2011, 6:14 AM
No, because Outrage hits all of them except Heatran harder and you can usually trick Heatran to lose its Balloon somehow.

3.14kachu
10th July 2011, 2:55 AM
How does Outrage hit steels harder than Brick Break?

JRCxyz
10th July 2011, 3:52 AM
Outrage does 90 to Steel-types. Brick Break isn't super-effective against Skarmory, Bronzong, Jirachi and Metagross (although, this one isn't as relevant I think). Brick Break hits Heatran and Dory x2, though.

ilucado
10th July 2011, 1:10 PM
I use Revenge Killing Weavile. But Metagross with Ice Punch can work pretty well in my experience.

I have to agree! I use a Ice Punch Weavile and it ohko almost every dragon expect for a bulky dragonite... I also use this (but it's main job is counter weathers):

Empoleon @ Air Balloon
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Def / 252 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Roar

irock245
10th July 2011, 1:21 PM
wait why does your empoleon have defiant if all your attacks are special?

ilucado
10th July 2011, 1:39 PM
lol don't mind that.. is just because I didn't want to use torrent.. xD

Moneyy
11th July 2011, 5:51 PM
Skarmory worked well for me, but I don't know how it would work against every dragon. Mostly I just use other dragons, or a sweeper with ice beam.

Dragonite0217
11th July 2011, 6:38 PM
Jirachi can take outrages and draco meteors(but not with one EV spread) and KO back with ice punc.

Zachmac
11th July 2011, 7:40 PM
How does Outrage hit steels harder than Brick Break?
It doesn't. STAB outrage reaches 180 power, but drops down to only 90 when NVE. Non-stab BB gets to 150 power.

Mister_SGG
11th July 2011, 7:41 PM
Skarmory is awesome.

Zachmac
11th July 2011, 7:53 PM
Skarmory is awesome.
Would a specially defensive one be able to withstand a Fire Blast from Mixmence/Mixnite?

jvh792
11th July 2011, 9:57 PM
Brick break doesn't hit Skarm or bronzong for 2x anyways. In fact, STAB outrage is actually better on both by 15 Atk power.
Those guys are all ok, but don't most dragons carry fire anyways? One flamethrower and most skarms and bronzes are mortally wounded...
Honestly? I think the best dragon counter is to have a faster dragon. lol
My Ice shard donphan helps, but is only truly effective on the 4x weak dragons

Zachmac
12th July 2011, 1:42 AM
Those guys are all ok, but don't most dragons carry fire anyways? One flamethrower and most skarms and bronzes are mortally wounded...
Dragonite and Salamence. You don't see fire on much else.

thejt
12th July 2011, 1:58 AM
Would Kyurem be completely out of the question?
I sometimes use him as my dragon counter....it doesn't fail that much

Zachmac
12th July 2011, 2:02 AM
Would Kyurem be completely out of the question?
Probably, it's easy to counter.

thejt
12th July 2011, 2:06 AM
Probably, it's easy to counter.
Hmm.
Steel x2
Dragon x2
Rock x2
Fighting x2
Oh darn.

TheBattleFrontierAsh1
12th July 2011, 2:12 AM
it is likely to be known as dragons

Zachmac
12th July 2011, 9:41 PM
it is likely to be known as dragons
But it fights differently and is easier to counter then most. It is a dragon, but for the sake of this discussion, let's pretend it isn't. I mean, for "slaying" kyurem, we could list Lucario, Infernape, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Magnezone, Steelix, Scizor, and pretty much every pokemon who resist it.

I never realized dragon slaying was so hard. Come to think of it, I almost always have a Kingdra, Salamence, or Gyarados on my team....Gyarados isn't dragon type, but it fights like them(or at least mine does).

If it weren't for their fire moves, ironically, Ecavalier would "slay" them.

hallstromjr
13th July 2011, 9:04 AM
I liked that Empoleon idea. Being resistant to dragon, and using Ice Beam or Avalanche to take em out. Gyrados also works like a boss. Intimidate, Dragon Dance, and Ice Fang can "slay" em pretty well.

3.14kachu
15th July 2011, 12:57 AM
Would a specially defensive [Skarmory] be able to withstand a Fire Blast from Mixmence/Mixnite?

Yes. Even if you EV trained the Salamence/Dragonite ENTIRELY in SpA, it would only 2HKO. It is a statistic that has annoyed me to no end.

Swagga09
15th July 2011, 6:24 AM
metagross could check and counter the lati twins pretty well and 2hko them with meteor mash

Scizorisnotcool
18th July 2011, 9:24 PM
I think he's banned now, but
Garchomp @ Choice Band

... I don't think you need the rest of the set. With his trolling 102 speed, he outspeeds almost every other dragon (the exclusions being Latias and Latios) and can 1hko any of them (including Multiscale D-nite) with Outrage.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: Just noticed an error, Lugia will outspeed and avoid being 1hko by the Chomp.

EDIT2: Just noticed another error, LUGIA ISN'T DRAGON TYPE? Weird. I always thought he was.

emboarrocks
18th July 2011, 10:21 PM
Cresselia is probably the best overall, though its garbage in OU due to sand and tons of things that setup on it. Well, I guess Hydreigon beats it.

Bronzong can take down most dragons barring Mold Breaker Haxorus. In rain he hard counters all dragons besides Specs Latios Surf and Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake, something very few others can do.

Balloon Heatran can sort of check them but isn't very reliable.

Skarmory takes Outrages and counters Haxorus like its nothing. He can survive a few Fire Fang / Punches but just barely.

Scizor can switch in on most of them and *kind of* win. He hits all common OU dragons for at least 65% which is easy to achieve with Stealth Rocks / Sandstorm / whatever.

Specially Defensive Jirachi can take everything Specially based dragons can dish out and annihilate them with Paralysis and repeated Iron Heads.

Mamoswine deserves mention because he can easily strip 80% off all but the most defensive dragons with Choice Band Ice Shard. He also has decent bulk, enough to switch in on an Earthquake or Dragon Claw ONCE.

Ferrothorn in rain laughs at all dragons barring LO Fire Blasts and +2 Haxorus Brick Break / Earthquakes. However it can't really kill them without Gyro Ball (which is a bad move most of the time).

Why is gyro ball bad?!

lucario44444444
19th July 2011, 2:40 PM
Skarmory, Nogh said

TerraWolf
19th July 2011, 3:54 PM
Standard Excadrill tends to 2hko most dragons for me. X-Scissor Hydreigon and Latios. Earthquake Haxorus. Rock Slide Dragonite and Salamence. I also tend to 3hko Kingdra with cb Scizor's Bullet Punch doing 30% to 35% easily.

Zekromaster826
21st July 2011, 12:43 AM
I persally like either DW Feraligatr w/ Ice Punch, Porygon-Z with Ice Beam, other dragons, or Gallade w/ Ice punch and Expert Belt