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@MiGo
30th July 2011, 3:23 AM
Which is better out of the two bear pokemon?
I say Beartic because of better moves :3

(BTW if this isnt the right place to put this, can someone direct me to where it should go? Thx :) )

Blue Harvest
30th July 2011, 3:50 AM
I think Ursaring. It has overall better stats, GREAT abilities and is somewhat cooler looking.

Also Ursaring with Belly Drum, Toxic Orb and Facade is capable of doing more damage after a single turn of setup than any other Pokemon in the game besides Belly Drum Explosion Lickilicki (and even then its a close second place)

Realistically though both Pokemon are terrible

Original151Rocks
30th July 2011, 3:55 AM
I think Ursaring. It has overall better stats, GREAT abilities and is somewhat cooler looking.

Also Ursaring with Belly Drum, Toxic Orb and Facade is capable of doing more damage after a single turn of setup than any other Pokemon in the game besides Belly Drum Explosion Lickilicki (and even then its a close second place)

Realistically though both Pokemon are terrible

Actually look at this from bulbapedia!

A level 100 Shuckle can potentially deal the most damage in one single attack through the use of numerous stat boosters, by using Helping Hand, Metronome held item, Power Trick, a Skill Swap to Pure Power or Huge Power, 6 Attack boosts, and the Defense Curl/Rollout combo. Also, Shuckle's partner must have the ability Flower Gift and the weather must be sunny. On the 5th impact of Rollout, if used against a level 1 Ledyba or Yanma that have been hit with negative Defense modifiers (such as Screech), it can deal 213,896,052 damage with a critical hit. ( From Bulbapedia )

How bout that?

Blue Harvest
30th July 2011, 4:03 AM
That takes like, 12 turns to setup. Ursaring can do in one turn enough damage to OHKO a Skarmory with a resisted physical hit.

TM0verlord
30th July 2011, 4:05 AM
I'd go with Ursaring because it has a slightly better speed stat, better attack stat, STAB Guts Facade hits harder that Beartic's STAB Icicle Crash, and has Quick Feet as a way to boost its mediocre Speed without locking itself into 1 move (until DW Beartic is released.)

TheBattleFrontierAsh1
30th July 2011, 4:06 AM
ursaring is better because of guts ability

coolioness
30th July 2011, 4:07 AM
ursaring, 4 words, toxic orb facade spammer

Killarflame
30th July 2011, 4:08 AM
I say ursaring on account of beartic having some kind of strange hair thing.

Gelatino95
30th July 2011, 4:15 AM
I say Ursaring. Guts-boosted Facade can do some serious damage, even without any stat boosts. That attack stat is no laughing matter. However, this foolproof plan is only foiled by Ursaring's sad speed. It's a shame, I really liked the idea. I tried it with Swellow, but it just wasn't the same.

Dark Sharpedo
30th July 2011, 5:16 AM
Obv Guts w/ Toxic Orb and Belly Drum/Facade Combo is amazing, so Ursaring is the call.
No Doubt if the two went up against each other Ursa would win.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 5:33 AM
(until DW Beartic is released.)

lol, even after its relaesed, beartic cant make full use of it, since swift swim is banned w/ its partner, drizzle, and rain dance can be easily stalled out, especially from a beartic, and BH is right, belly drum and quick feet is ridiculous, tho both have a common fight weakness, and thats still there in the lower teirs (techni top, scarf cross, many abusers of mach punch/vacuum wave) and beartic is evrn worst, w/ a SR weakness, common fire weakness, its overall worthless, urasing is just the better pokemon

TM0verlord
30th July 2011, 5:41 AM
lol, even after its relaesed, beartic cant make full use of it, since swift swim is banned w/ its partner, drizzle, and rain dance can be easily stalled out, especially from a beartic,

I was already aware of the Drizzle/Swift Swim ban. I wasn't saying that Beartic should pair up with a Drizzle Pokemon, but rather with a bulky Pokemon that can set up Rain Dance down in UU/RU so that Beartic can have the advantage of Quick Feet Ursaring without having to take Poison damage.

Turtlestarf
30th July 2011, 5:43 AM
I prefer Beartic, I like how he's Ice-type, that's all.

Vandslaux
30th July 2011, 6:12 AM
You guys are talking like they have the same Attack. Ursaring doesn't have a crap movepool. (OK, it isn't good, but Beartic's is horrid) STAB Flame Orb Guts-boosted Facade hurts. A LOT. Especially after an SD.

S k y
30th July 2011, 6:13 AM
Ursaring is better..

Creepy looking, Another Normal type who can used Fighting type

Aquadon
30th July 2011, 6:42 AM
Ursaring doesn't have a crap movepool. (OK, it isn't good, but Beartic's is horrid)

Facade, Fire Punch, Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Stone Edge, Payback, Close Combat, Crunch, Belly Drum, Cross Chop, Seed Bomb, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch, and Superpower, Gunk Shot, and Low Kick to an extent hardly seems like a shallow movepool. That's just me though.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 7:08 AM
I was already aware of the Drizzle/Swift Swim ban. I wasn't saying that Beartic should pair up with a Drizzle Pokemon, but rather with a bulky Pokemon that can set up Rain Dance down in UU/RU so that Beartic can have the advantage of Quick Feet Ursaring without having to take Poison damage.

lol, but if you use a rain dance abuser, why not kingdra,ludicolo,kabutops b4 you use beartic. I mean, most of the dragons are OU this gen

(UU Dragons)
Altaria
Flygon
Kingdra
Druddigon
Evolite NFE Dragons

I mean, why not use the pokemon that MADE SS and Drizzle banned? The pokemon i listed before has powerful STABS that can cause hell for 5, possibly 8 turns if using damp rock. i see what youre saying, but they are better SS abuseres that beartic.

Blue Harvest
30th July 2011, 7:14 AM
To be fair, you could also say why not use Swellow or Heracross if you want a GUTs user.

Both of these Pokemon are bad but at least Ursaring hits like a bomb.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 7:36 AM
To be fair, you could also say why not use Swellow or Heracross if you want a GUTs user.



meh, youre right, swellow, having 130 base speed(tell me if im wrong, im on my ds atm so im not to sure) possess the speed to actually pull-off a late game sweep, because w/ BB and burn/poison damage, its not KOing all 6 pokes by itself, especially w/ slowbro, snorlax, evo-lite hippo and ferro seed in UU.

Heracross is the better choice, tho it wish it were faster w/ 85 base speed. It possees great STABs, Great STAB attacks (megahorn/Close Combat) which become 200 base power w/ guts. and with pursuit to pick off switches, as well and stone edge for coverage, as well as decent bulk, hera makes a great choice for a guts abuser.

MotherRussia
30th July 2011, 7:37 AM
Swellow has a lower base attack, Right? Back on topic, I've personally used Ursaring, IN OU. If it comes in, you can expect to lose something. Beartic has more weaknesses, lower attack stat, shallower movepool, creepy design, Ursaring outclasses it. Period.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 7:52 AM
Swellow has a lower base attack, Right? Back on topic, I've personally used Ursaring, IN OU. If it comes in, you can expect to lose something. Beartic has more weaknesses, lower attack stat, shallower movepool, creepy design, Ursaring outclasses it. Period.

OU Urasing(Used in Sun) @ Toxic Orb
Jolly
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Quick Feet

Close Combat(Hits T-Tar, Heatran, Terrakion e.t.c)
Fire Punch(For Skarmory, Jirachi, Ferro e.t.c)
Seed Bomb(For Poli Jellicent Rotom-W Cloyster and Hippo)
Ice Punch(For Gilscor, Dragons, Grass Types)
/ Protect(To ensure Boost)

lol, if i used urasing in OU, itd look like that. Tho others can pull of a similar set better than this (Victini, Infernape, Darmanitan to name a few)

MotherRussia
30th July 2011, 8:01 AM
Mine had the same EVs, but the following moves:
- Sword Dance (I always SD on te first turn)
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Facade

Deadly. BTW Ursaring has more powered up moves than Beartic.
Brick Break? Nope, Ursaring gets Close Combat.
Shadow Claw? Ursaring gets that, but Ursaring gets Crunch.
Facade? Ursaring abuses it far better.
Fire Punch? Ursaring has it and abuses it well.
Etc.

kaiser soze
30th July 2011, 8:08 AM
I've only used Ursaring on my SS playthrough, but it worked well for me then. I might be crazy enough to try it out, especially if/when I make a UU< team. Paralysis support would make it amazing :D.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 8:14 AM
- Sword Dance (I always SD on te first turn)
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Facade



lol, using that leaves you walled by

skarmory- can set up, roost of damage, then roar/whirlwind you out

gliscor- takes eq plus can toxic stall

jirachi could para you as you set up or just Iron Head you to death

hippo could just use roar on you

also, like i said eariler, pokes w/ priority(Scizor, Conkelldurr, Infernape, lucario, meta to an extent) easily dispose of this

MotherRussia
30th July 2011, 8:31 AM
Para activates Quick Feet.
2+ Facade when it's BP is doubled to 140 damage can OHKO, IIRC, after SR damage. I can have a back-up pokemon to deal with those pokemon as well.

Serebii!
30th July 2011, 8:33 AM
I personally think Beartic is better

cdawg3574
30th July 2011, 8:39 AM
meh, youre right, swellow, having 130 base speed(tell me if im wrong, im on my ds atm so im not to sure) possess the speed to actually pull-off a late game sweep, because w/ BB and burn/poison damage, its not KOing all 6 pokes by itself, especially w/ slowbro, snorlax, evo-lite hippo and ferro seed in UU.

Heracross is the better choice, tho it wish it were faster w/ 85 base speed. It possees great STABs, Great STAB attacks (megahorn/Close Combat) which become 200 base power w/ guts. and with pursuit to pick off switches, as well and stone edge for coverage, as well as decent bulk, hera makes a great choice for a guts abuser.

Actually, 180 base power, as 120+60=180

Blue Harvest
30th July 2011, 9:31 AM
lol, using that leaves you walled by

skarmory- can set up, roost of damage, then roar/whirlwind you out

+2 Facade does 63.8% - 75.4% to Impish Skarmory. Specially Defensive Skarmory can be OHKOed after Stealth Rocks. Close Combat or Fire Punch does even more.


gliscor- takes eq plus can toxic stall

max/max Gliscor takes 130% minimum from +2 Facade


jirachi could para you as you set up or just Iron Head you to death

Sp Def Jirachi takes 92.6% - 109.2% from Facade (105% minimum from Close Combat) and Ursaring is immune to Paralyze due to Toxic Orb.


hippo could just use roar on you

+2 Guts Facade does 115% - 135.2% to max/max Hippowdon.


also, like i said eariler, pokes w/ priority(Scizor, Conkelldurr, Infernape, lucario, meta to an extent) easily dispose of this

True, Ursaring is bad but its wrong to say the set is easily walled.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 10:06 AM
Actually, 180 base power, as 120+60=180

nope, its 120 * 125% (STAB, its dual types not mono typed) which is 150 * 33% (GUTS) which is 199.5, or 200

and thx bh for the nifty calcs i assummed that those pokes could take a hit, next time i run calcs first

Blue Harvest
30th July 2011, 10:09 AM
Wrong. STAB is 1.5x regardless of dual or single types. It was 1.25x in Red and Blue, but it hasn't been that way in nearly 10 years lol.

Also Guts is a 1.5x boost.

TrollFreak
30th July 2011, 10:48 AM
Wrong. STAB is 1.5x regardless of dual or single types. It was 1.25x in Red and Blue, but it hasn't been that way in nearly 10 years lol.

Also Guts is a 1.5x boost.




1.50 - Moves the same type as pokemon.

1.25 - Moves the same as ONE of the types of pokemon

Guts - boots attack by 33% when afflicted with a status alliment

lol, im NEVER lisenting to a book for anything pokemon related XDDDDDD

in that case, 120 * 150% = 180 * 150% = 270 base power there, im right

Snar
30th July 2011, 4:42 PM
Someone explain to me how Belly Drum Ursaring works. Ursaring is not the one to take hits (75 Base Def & SpDef) and it's slow. Unless you have Quick Feet and/or the element of surprise, I don't see it working.

The Jock
30th July 2011, 4:49 PM
As Blue Harvest said, both are bad, while I assume Beartic has some small niche in the higher tiers, because of its ability allowing it to have a place on a Rain Dance team, its typing is pretty terrible, more so than Ursaring's and isn't as destructive. Ursaring is still the best choice, considering Quick Feet/Guts and its higher base attack.

Lord Of Grapes
30th July 2011, 5:07 PM
+2 Facade does 63.8% - 75.4% to Impish Skarmory. Specially Defensive Skarmory can be OHKOed after Stealth Rocks. Close Combat or Fire Punch does even more.

max/max Gliscor takes 130% minimum from +2 Facade

Sp Def Jirachi takes 92.6% - 109.2% from Facade (105% minimum from Close Combat) and Ursaring is immune to Paralyze due to Toxic Orb.

+2 Guts Facade does 115% - 135.2% to max/max Hippowdon.

True, Ursaring is bad but its wrong to say the set is easily walled.

nuff said.

Magcargo96
30th July 2011, 5:23 PM
Ursaring, without a doubt. It really packs a punch with Façade+ Quick Feet/Guts. Earthquake is a wonderful move for any Guts abuser (or Quick Feet, for that matter). I don't really see any competitive value in Beartic.

Valkoor
3rd August 2011, 1:39 AM
I personally like Ursaring more, but that's on aesthetics. And he was the original, but again, that's aesthetic. In battle, he has a much better movepool than Beartic.

pseudoman
3rd August 2011, 4:43 AM
I believe ursaring is better than beartic because of the aforementioned reasons. Not getting eq dealt a huge blow to beartic.

Mighty Arceus493
3rd August 2011, 7:20 AM
Gotta go with Urasing. Beartic has a few weaknesses, but Urasing is a normal type so it can learn heaps of moves from different types!