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lucario44444444
31st July 2011, 1:14 PM
Well, Who is the best DDer? Id have to say Scrafty, he's the only one that has good defenses and has a a bigger chance of getting 3 DDs up than any1. 6-0 games are very common with him.

Big Beluga
31st July 2011, 3:46 PM
for the current metagame, i think i'd have to agree in that scrafty is the most threatening dragon dancer. not only does he have the bulk to set up a dd or two, but his STABs + ice punch provide incredible coverage among the top bw threats. on top of that, he can choose between drain punch and hjk: the former being able to keep scrafty healthy and allow it to rip apart offense, while hjk lets scrafty muscle it's way past stall with a little bit of support. the only blemish on scrafty would probably be his lack of immediate power taking his 90 base atk into consideration. in comparison to tyranitar's, dragonite's, gyarados' and salamence's 125+ atk, 90 is pretty low, which can sometimes catapult some of those just mentioned to perform better than scrafty in certain situations.

rocky505
31st July 2011, 3:52 PM
Scrafty is deadly you can tell when he puts his hood on.

Kansas_Rocks!
31st July 2011, 3:57 PM
I would have to say scrafty, because even with no investments in defense, he can take a physical and special hit, and drain punch the damage off.

Utopian
31st July 2011, 4:14 PM
whishcash and crawdaunt. gg.

hallstromjr
31st July 2011, 4:47 PM
I gotta say Dragonite..with Multiscale he can usually get two to three up and Roost to Recover. From there I smell a sweep.

The Imposter
31st July 2011, 4:50 PM
In OU, I'd say Scrafty's ginormous bulk helps it a lot. In Ubers, I'd say either Swift Swim Kingdra or Raquaza.

TM0verlord
31st July 2011, 4:57 PM
Multiscale Dragonite is the best DD'er because it can usually set up about 2 DDs thanks to its bulk and then either heal and reactivate Multiscale with Roost or start using Dragon Claw/another attacking move.

MotherRussia
31st July 2011, 6:12 PM
Dragonite and Salamence. Scrafty's ok, but he lacks the immediate speed and power. Sala can wreck teams after one DD. Oh, and if you wanna go for a suprise DDer, Physical Latios. :0 No one ever expects him, meaning you can get a DD or 2 up while the opponent switches to some pokemon to counter 'Draco Meteor'.

thejt
31st July 2011, 7:06 PM
In my experience, Scrafty usually has to get 2 or 3 DD's up to outspeed stuff....
Kingdra (with SS) or Salamence. GG.

Porgon-XYZ
31st July 2011, 7:12 PM
Dragonite can get in alot thanks to Multiscale and roost. It also has a 134 base attack making it much more threating then Scrafty. It also has ExtreemeSpeed and a higher base speed to work with.

The Jock
31st July 2011, 7:13 PM
Easily Dragonite because Multiscale guarantees it a Dragon Dance and it gets access to Roost. Dragonite can also function as a Bulky Mixed Dragon Dance, which not even Salamence can say, due to its lack of Bulk. Scrafty is good, but pretty overrated, considering it needs to get a few DDs up before it can cause massive amounts of damage.

Aquadon
31st July 2011, 10:31 PM
I would have to go with Scrafty or Dragonite on this one. It's a little surprising that Scrafty knows Dragon Dance, but it's able to use its Natural Bulk to set up and start demolishing with its STAB/whatever move. Dragonite's Multiscale really is something though, which can help out a good amount (and requires less turns to setup).

Pingo
31st July 2011, 11:37 PM
Overall: Rayquaza.

Excluding banned pokemon: Salamence, closely followed by Dragonite. However, I think Salamence will destroy teams when it's DW ability is released.

Agonist
31st July 2011, 11:41 PM
Probably Dragonite, just because Multi-Scale enables it to easily get at least 1 or 2.

Moneyy
31st July 2011, 11:43 PM
I don't know about best, but Feraligatr is good. It can almost be unstoppable with 1-2 dragon dances.

irock245
1st August 2011, 12:16 AM
Scrafty. Dragonite works better now with other sets, like a more bulky attacking set. Scrafty is the best for me, he won me so many battles.

Cometk
1st August 2011, 12:42 AM
In my experience, Scrafty usually has to get 2 or 3 DD's up to outspeed stuff....

Not really. He reaches 354 with Jolly after one Dragon Dance. That means he can outspeed Thundurus, Tornadus, and all the base 110s.

TheBattleFrontierAsh1
1st August 2011, 12:50 AM
Out of everything i've witnessed in the games scrafty the way to go.

Lord Of Grapes
1st August 2011, 12:51 AM
Not really. He reaches 354 with Jolly after one Dragon Dance. That means he can outspeed Thundurus, Tornadus(base 111), and all the base 110s.

True, but Thundurus could see it coming and priority T-Wave and proceed to murder.

But this isn't about the soon-to-be-banned grandpa. I'd have to say Dragonite, Closely followed by Salamence, Dragonite because of his bulk and Multiscale but Salamence can rip whole teams apart that arn't prepared for it, also works as a late-game sweeper.

windsong
1st August 2011, 1:18 AM
Honestly, not really many DDers are very good right now. DD Scrafty was great stage two, but since then, a lot of stuff has become more popular which really hurts him, most notably the wide variety of fighting types that came into light after the Drizzle + SS ban (specifically Conkeldurr and Scarf Terakkion) and Skarmory, which has been seeing a lot more usage lately. And everyone saying Scrafty needs 2 DDs to sweep, learn to use Scrafty right...it's not like Conkeldurr, you don't send him in early game to punch holes, you send him in lategame when stuff he can't sweep through is removed and he only needs +1 speed to sweep through everything.

Dragonite's an alright DDer, but Choice Band sets are honestly more threatening immediately, since people are often reluctant to switch in Skarmory or Ferrothorn once Dragonite first comes into play, and CB sets can also revenge stuff with Extremespeed. Otherwise, bulky DDNite's pretty good with multiscale, I suppose.

DDMence just sucks now. Honestly, the only Mence set I'd consider running right now is Classic Mixmence, who still causes that immediate "ohshi-" reaction. DDMence, on the other hand, is just stopped by too much common stuff to be as good as it once was. (However, Mixmence has always been the most threatening Salamence set, even in gen 4, so w/e). It's just that there's more stuff capable of taking +1 Outrages than there used to be, and stuff with priority is as common as ever. Also, you're in a bind as to run Fire Blast or Fire Fang -- if you run Fire Blast, Ferrothorn beats you, and if you run Fire Fang, Skarmory beats you. Also the fact that there are actually good scarfers with base speed of over 100 hurts mence, as does mamoswine becoming much more common.

DD Haxorus wrecks ****, but you really need screens up to sweep with it, since it's so frail. CB sets are usually better.

MotherRussia
1st August 2011, 1:37 AM
True, but Thundurus could see it coming and priority T-Wave and proceed to murder.

But this isn't about the soon-to-be-banned grandpa. I'd have to say Dragonite, Closely followed by Salamence, Dragonite because of his bulk and Multiscale but Salamence can rip whole teams apart that arn't prepared for it, also works as a late-game sweeper.

Ah, no. Shed Skin says otherwise. :0
@Above: True, MixMence is a menace. xP He's better in certain situations.

Bestgamepearl
1st August 2011, 1:56 AM
Dragon Dance is scary as hell if a haxorus uses it, but he's gotta live to actually get something done. At this time i think Dragonite has the best potential as a dd user, just cuz of the bulk and ability, easier to setup

S k y
1st August 2011, 2:31 AM
I'd like to say Scrafty and Dragonite with Multiscale

GOLDENCRS
1st August 2011, 3:55 AM
Honestly, not really many DDers are very good right now. DD Scrafty was great stage two, but since then, a lot of stuff has become more popular which really hurts him, most notably the wide variety of fighting types that came into light after the Drizzle + SS ban (specifically Conkeldurr and Scarf Terakkion) and Skarmory, which has been seeing a lot more usage lately. And everyone saying Scrafty needs 2 DDs to sweep, learn to use Scrafty right...it's not like Conkeldurr, you don't send him in early game to punch holes, you send him in lategame when stuff he can't sweep through is removed and he only needs +1 speed to sweep through everything.

I disagree. A moxie Scrafty with Ice Punch, Drain Punch and Crunch can literally take teams down with 1 DD, because it has such high defenses that it can take hits and recover it off. Here is my set.

[560] Scrafty (CWA) @Lefties
Careful (+Sp. D -Sp. A)
120 HP 136 Attack 252 Sp. D
Ice Punch
DD
Drain Punch
Crunch.

361 special defense, and can take physical hits well also with 115 Base Defense. With +1 he has 375 attack and 228 Speed. He can wreck with more DD boosts if you come in on a Special Attacker. I think this is the best

MotherRussia
1st August 2011, 4:34 AM
115 Defense isn't good. In fact, that's near horrible. Fragile pokemon like Staraptor have higher defense without investment. Anything on the physical side kills it unless he resists it. =/ Someone BP'd Speed+Atk boosts to a Haxorus, and I was unable to OHKO it on the switch. If given the chance to set up, DD Haxorus wrecks havoc. PERIOD. Oppurtunities to set up:
Switches
Parahax
Misses
Hazard-Set uppers
Though rare, surviving a hit/focus sash.
Offensively, Haxorus takes the gold.

GOLDENCRS
1st August 2011, 4:39 AM
115 Defense isn't good. In fact, that's near horrible. Fragile pokemon like Staraptor have higher defense without investment. Anything on the physical side kills it unless he resists it. =/ Someone BP'd Speed+Atk boosts to a Haxorus, and I was unable to OHKO it on the switch. If given the chance to set up, DD Haxorus wrecks havoc. PERIOD. Oppurtunities to set up:
Switches
Parahax
Misses
Hazard-Set uppers
Though rare, surviving a hit/focus sash.
Offensively, Haxorus takes the gold.

115 base defense. I clearly Specified 115 base defense. That is great base defense, and both Scrafty's Defense and Special Defense are both able to peak at 361. That is great if you ask me, because he can get up some Dragon Dances with almost no harm then recover with Drain Punch.

MotherRussia
1st August 2011, 4:48 AM
Oops my bad. xP I thought you said 115 defense. xD Wel", Scrafty is in fact a bulky DDer who can rip teams apart with moxie at his side.

MetalFlygon08
1st August 2011, 5:04 AM
Crawdaunt.


It's so random it's good, and unlike Wishcash, it has the moves to Abuse it with.

windsong
1st August 2011, 5:51 AM
I disagree. A moxie Scrafty with Ice Punch, Drain Punch and Crunch can literally take teams down with 1 DD, because it has such high defenses that it can take hits and recover it off. Here is my set.

[560] Scrafty (CWA) @Lefties
Careful (+Sp. D -Sp. A)
120 HP 136 Attack 252 Sp. D
Ice Punch
DD
Drain Punch
Crunch.

361 special defense, and can take physical hits well also with 115 Base Defense. With +1 he has 375 attack and 228 Speed. He can wreck with more DD boosts if you come in on a Special Attacker. I think this is the best

Oh god.

Just oh god. You're not sweeping through anything with that set. You need like 2-3 DDs before you outspeed anything if you're running no investment, four if you want to outsped scarfers. You're still walled by pretty much the same stuff at +1, and stuff like Conkeldurr sets up on you even more easily due to your lack of investment in Attack. ****ing offensive Reuiniclus can live Super Effective +2 hits from you. That's really not good at all. And two turns of setup for 500 attack and even at +2 Speed you aren't even outspeeding +Spe base 108s. That means that stuff like non scarf Terrakion and Infernape can beat you. Scizor takes anything you throw at it, even at +2 and kos, Skarmory can set up against you.

Honestly, if you want a defensive Scrafty set, run Bulk Up, not Dragon Dance. DD Scrafty absolutely needs to be max speed Jolly, don't under any circumstances take away speed to invest in Special Defense of all things.

kaiser soze
1st August 2011, 6:00 AM
Not exactly on-topic, but related: how about Quiver Dance? It has poor distribution and harder to pull off but the benefits are better than DD

Blue Harvest
1st August 2011, 6:04 AM
Not exactly on-topic, but related: how about Quiver Dance? It has poor distribution and harder to pull off but the benefits are better than DD

Volcarona lol, the rest aren't even close.

Lilligent is good in lower tiers though.

windsong
1st August 2011, 6:09 AM
19**betterthanfolg**1414

I'M USIN THE LILLIGANT TEAM BLUE!!!!!

But yeah it's not very good ;__;

Blue Harvest
1st August 2011, 6:32 AM
What Lilligent team!?

lucario44444444
1st August 2011, 7:13 AM
Heil Scrafty!!!!!! I love scrafty! just like all of you!!!!
Anyway, I understand if you said Salamnce, But Draginite's other sets are better

revv
1st August 2011, 7:28 AM
Disagree with me all you want, but crawdaunt with good SD is pretty good at dragon dance. I've trained one.

kaiser soze
1st August 2011, 7:49 AM
Volcarona lol, the rest aren't even close.

Lilligent is good in lower tiers though.

Haha I looked up the list after posting and saw just how slim it is. :/

Serebii!
1st August 2011, 8:04 AM
I voted Dragonite, it becomes powerful after using Dragon Dance. I have not yet used a Scrafty

chemistry
1st August 2011, 10:20 AM
i used scrafty once and it was able to outspeed and kill the genies with jolly and 255 in spe, so i voted for that

lucario44444444
1st August 2011, 12:42 PM
Quote this post and say BOO YEAH. If you thinkz da scarfty is da best

Firebreather
1st August 2011, 1:08 PM
Considering I just 6-0'd with DD Scrafty... Well, I think my vote is obvious

Mister_SGG
1st August 2011, 1:12 PM
Probably Scrafty or Dragonite since they're bulky and can easily get in a few Dragon Dances.

Farfan
1st August 2011, 5:30 PM
My favorite Dragon Dancer is Scrafty, he has very good defenses and Dark/Fighting STAB kills everything

pokemonjeff
1st August 2011, 5:43 PM
In the lower tiers or on a rain team, definetly whiscash. Even though he's not one of the choices in this poll, hes definetly one of the best.

Hes fairly bulky, has access to hydration (1 turn rests), is quite good after a dragon dance, and has STAB EQ and aqua tail / waterfall.

Plus, he just looks so awesome shiny, how can you not just love to use him? xD

TerraWolf
1st August 2011, 6:36 PM
I'd say its close between Scrafty and Dragonite. Wishcash gets honorable mention because of STAB Earthquake and Waterfall plus an array of various other moves at his disposal

hallstromjr
1st August 2011, 8:03 PM
I voted Dragonite, it becomes powerful after using Dragon Dance. I have not yet used a Scrafty

Everyone gets better after Dragon Dance IMO.

Dragonite is the easiest to set it up with because it has its great ability and it can Roost for itself.

PokemonOwn
1st August 2011, 8:10 PM
Either Dragonite, or Scrafty. Scrafty's amazing movepool + Moxie, or D-Nite + Multiscale + Roost = Ownage.

Dark Sharpedo
1st August 2011, 8:34 PM
In my mind, Whiscash is the best DracoDancer.
JK XD, actually tbh I really like DD TTar, but when I need a sweeper, DD Mence is that way to go.
Mence has pretty decent bulk which is nice to have around on your team, the only problem is his x4 weakness to ice :L

DrasticPhase
2nd August 2011, 12:16 AM
Dragonite because of his bulk and his DW ability and can roost off the damage to reactivate multiscale

Disaster_Lord
2nd August 2011, 2:25 AM
I voted salamence, he is the best late game out of the three you posted.

lucario44444444
2nd August 2011, 3:06 AM
Salamence sucks, Done.
Scrafty has good defenses and can get 2-3 DDs up, making 5-1 or 6-0 games common.
Dragonite's other sets are better, especially in the rain.
There's a Problem, Why is Scrafty 43 on the OU ladder and Jellicent 18
It would make sense if they switched that around
DONATE TO THE HELP DAZ SCRAFTY PROGRAM TODAY BY USING HIM IN ALL OF YOUR PO BATTLES AND NEVER JELLICENT:)

Doodles
2nd August 2011, 9:19 AM
I would say Dragonite because of his lethal DD + Outrage combo due to his base stats.

Victoria
2nd August 2011, 11:50 AM
I'd have to say Scrafty. It's got enough bulk to be able to set up one or two DDs and it helps that it has a wide range of moves. It also has access to the Moxie ability which can just continue to increase it's attack after every KO.

Magcargo96
2nd August 2011, 12:31 PM
I prefer Dragonite, actually. Multiscale makes it incredibly easy to set up and sweep. It even has Roost for recovery!
Scrafty is still wonderful, though. It has a respectable bulk and the right moves to be a massive threat.

complete legitimacy
2nd August 2011, 7:24 PM
Scrafty's good in theory, but it's only used by noobs put it out first and instantly think you're gonna 6-0. Of course it's near unstoppable when you get a couple DDs up, but isn't everything else? DDers just aren't as viable as they were before, with weather everywhere and 5th gen raising the standards for both Atk/Sp. Atk and Speed. Leading off with a DDer? Well, you better watch out for a good anti-lead, namely Choice Band Haxorus. Got a DD up with a Scrafty? That's wonderful, because you're still outsped by Thundurus and Scarf Terrakion, who will easily pummel you. Basically, if you still want a DDer on your team, it should be either Salamence or Dragonite, although Gyarados gets an honorable mention. They all have above average offensive stats to begin with.

EDIT: A +1 Jolly Scrafty actually outspeeds Timid Thundurus by 1 point, but you get the point.

NeohopeSTF
2nd August 2011, 7:40 PM
Scrafty is better with Bulk Up than DD

Dragonite is the best DDancer

MotherRussia
2nd August 2011, 8:03 PM
Mixios (Latios) is actually pretty good IMO. I've used him many times, and he ALWAYS gets a DD up because of the suprise factor. He even has a couple of useful physical moves like EQ and Outrage. Plus he can still go special and outspeed basically the entire tier after his one DD. :0

Gloryus
2nd August 2011, 8:12 PM
DD Bulky Dragonite is the best IMO. Definitely gets up at least one DD and Roost back up. It's getting alot usage in OU. Salamence is dangerous when it can manage to get a DD up but it's not so easy as it's not as bulky as Multiscale Dragonite.

Lord Of Grapes
2nd August 2011, 9:29 PM
DD Bulky Dragonite is the best IMO. Definitely gets up at least one DD and Roost back up. It's getting alot usage in OU. Salamence is dangerous when it can manage to get a DD up but it's not so easy as it's not as bulky as Multiscale Dragonite.

It's easier when you switch it ion on a type that it totally resists.

Xx_BS-TyKi_xX
2nd August 2011, 10:18 PM
I prefer to run Dragon Dance with Kingdra or Salamance than Dragonite

WeatherEffectRain
2nd August 2011, 11:19 PM
Ah, Dragon Dance. I'm going to throw some of my crap out.

My personal preferance is a Sub+DD Gyarados, because you trade off +1/+1 or +2/+2 Ice Fang/Waterfall/Filler for +4/+4 or +5/+5 Waterfall/Filler when set up right. People never expect a Bulky GyaraSub, but it works so well, I'm confused I'm the only one I've seen to run it.

My second choice would have to be Kingra, the few times I've seen it in any tier it wrecks stuff.

If I'd like to point something similar out; Flygon would be a whole lot harder to handle if he got DD, but if he got QD, that'd be heck.

I'd also like to give a few honorable mentions for sheer "Wow..?" factor; Tropius is an interesting choice in lower tiers; Feraligatr seems like a cool idea, and could be useful when it gets it's DW ability; Lapras is a freaking Plesiosaur that dances and then smashes; Whiscash for DD+Hydration+Rest. EDIT: Oh yeah, and maybe a Eviolite DD Shelgon in RU. I've gotta try it out...

Pichu47
3rd August 2011, 2:00 AM
Haxorus can be decent with DD.

Joe The Bow
3rd August 2011, 2:11 AM
Wiscash. You forgot to add A WHOLE BUNCH of dragon dancers.

lucario44444444
3rd August 2011, 2:57 AM
All the other ones suck

CloudVII
3rd August 2011, 3:33 PM
Haxorus does NOT suck with DD. The only reason you think it may suck is that it needs some support. With screens, Haxor can sweep an entire team rather easy with DD help.

GOLDENCRS
3rd August 2011, 5:18 PM
Haxorus does NOT suck with DD. The only reason you think it may suck is that it needs some support. With screens, Haxor can sweep an entire team rather easy with DD help.

Exactly, Haxorus is kinda frail compared to other dragons. A DD Dragonite can 6-0 teams frequently.

spuds4ever
3rd August 2011, 5:46 PM
Exactly, Haxorus is kinda frail compared to other dragons. A DD Dragonite can 6-0 teams frequently.

I disagree. Dragonite rarely has the chance to set up in my experience. And he is quite easily walled by something like jellicent.

I think Kingdra in a non-rain team is the best DD user personally.

Pichu47
3rd August 2011, 9:01 PM
All the other ones suck


You can't honestly mean that Gyrados and Haxorus suck with D-dance. That's just rubbish.

irock245
4th August 2011, 3:39 PM
I disagree. Dragonite rarely has the chance to set up in my experience. And he is quite easily walled by something like jellicent.

I think Kingdra in a non-rain team is the best DD user personally.
You're implying that something with +1 attack backed by a base 134 attack stat is walled by something with defenses of 100/70? Wow. Dragonite could never beat that.

windsong
4th August 2011, 5:51 PM
I disagree. Dragonite rarely has the chance to set up in my experience. And he is quite easily walled by something like jellicent.

I think Kingdra in a non-rain team is the best DD user personally.

Kingdra is walled by so much more than Dragonite that this isn't even funny.

Gelatino95
4th August 2011, 6:06 PM
I disagree. Dragonite rarely has the chance to set up in my experience. And he is quite easily walled by something like jellicent.

You're wrong. With Multiscale, Dragonite is pretty much guaranteed to be able to set up at least one Dragon Dance, and possibly two. Coming off an attack stat of 134, that's pretty crazy. Plus, Dragon Claw gets really good neutral coverage. It's neutral to Jellicent, and the poor jellyfish only has 100/70 defenses.

hallstromjr
4th August 2011, 6:23 PM
Who said Dragonite dont Dragon Dance? Boy you crazy. I run mine with a Lum Berry, Dragon Dance, Outrage, Roost, and Extreme Speed. Yeah yeah "It's walled by Steels", because Steels are gonna hurt me? Tell that to Skarmory or Magnezone when I'm at +6

jesusfreak94
4th August 2011, 8:00 PM
Dragonite is the best from my own experience. I've rarely been in a situation where a bulky DD Nite hasn't gotten at least one or two dances up and swept or at least done a ton of damage. There are times where I've even managed to get more than to DD's (my personal record is 5). Fantastic, that's all I have to say.

Scrafty is great and all, but I find it's Dark typing to be both a blessing and a curse. It gives it almost unresisted STABs, but gives it a bad weakness to Fighting attacks. This makes is very easy to kill with things like Terrakion and Conkeldurr, possibly before it can even do any real damage. It's also a bit too slow for my tastes, as a +2 Jolly Scrafty is still outsped by +1 base 95s and faster. Still, it is very bulky and has great coverage, so it's got a niche.

Salamence is pretty bad off with DD, from what I've seen. It's better off going mixed. Outrage/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Earthquake is practically impossible to switch in without some risk, while a DD Salamence can be defeated by a number of Scarf users that may come in on the DD and force it to switch out or die.

I'll be completely honest, DD Haxorus kinda sucks from my own experience. Even with DD up, it is still outsped by +1 Hydreigon and the base 100s, a fairly important speed tier. It's also fairly frail without screens, but if you're going to set up screens to have a not-so-frail Haxorus, you might as well set up screens and have a stupidly bulky Dragonite. Haxorus is honestly better abusing it's ridiculous Atk stat and using Choice Band (Rivalry CB is pretty incredible).

I personally prefer RestTalk sets on Gyarados, but bulky DD sets are kinda nice. All-out offensive DD sets just don't have the same luster they used to, and they seem so much easier to handle to me.

Kingdra really lost a lot of its luster with the Drizzle + Swift Swim ban, but the ChestoRest set has worked pretty well for me. Like Dragonite, it can usually get up a couple of DDs if you play right, but it lacks that same power that DNite has.

DD Latios is pretty fun, especially when your opponent sends in a Scarf user to check it as you DD up and outspeed. Kinda gimmicky, but fun.

Feraligator has the potential to be pretty good in the lower tiers if DD and Sheer Force every become legal together. Until then, not so much.

Tyranitar is just awful now with DD. There's so much Fighting priority and so many fast Fighting types in OU now that it's not even funny. Tyranitar is much better off using a Choice or mixed set.

Rayquaza is a fantastic Dragon Dancer in Ubers, but everyone expected as much from something like him.

That's my two cents on the more common Dragon Dance users. Unless I'm forgetting something important, the rest are usually unconventional or downright bad.

Ivanka
8th August 2011, 12:53 PM
I would agree with the guys who said Dragonite because of it's Multiscale ability. It can get at least one DD, and also has access to Roost if necessary. My second choice would be Scrafty, and then Salamence.

Ruby Blue
8th August 2011, 1:02 PM
Personally, I'd rather use Bulk Up on Scrafty. The extra bulk helps against the fighting priority imo.
Plus, even with a few DDs it's still rather slow :/

Salamence is better off as a mixed set, too.

So, I guess Dragonite would be my choice.

ShadowKyogre443
8th August 2011, 1:59 PM
Dragonite's nice, but my vote goes for Salamence as a good mixed sweeper.

ParaChomp
8th August 2011, 5:06 PM
http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/e/ef/RayquazaSSBB.jpg/180px-RayquazaSSBB.jpg

Dark-Tyranitar
8th August 2011, 7:43 PM
scrafty for sure, then multiscale dragonite

scrafty with its incredible bulk (for a sweeper) mixed with D-Dance it becomes extremely threatening after 2 or 3 boosts from D-Dance which it can easily accomplish with good bulk and drain punch or shed skin rest for recovery.

Dragonite however isnt too far behind scrafty though as multiscale allows it to almost always take a hit and boost while being more threatening right away needing only 1 or 2 boosts to sweep

playplayj
11th August 2011, 9:26 PM
Dragonite,
1st DD MultiScale sucks up the attack like it's nothing
2nd DD Dnite takes a some damage but Dragonite has some nice bulk on him and knows how to take a hit
3rd DD and onward you don't even need because my boy has a monster attack stat but if you want more The big D can roost its HP back up, then Multiscale comes back into effect. I mean it's virtually game over from there.


Scrafty goml.

Psycho Cut
11th August 2011, 9:38 PM
It's a close call between Scrafty and Dragonite (sorry mence!)

Dragonite, with multiscale, can get one off at least without dying, practically guaranteed, and thanks to his high att, he can often sweep from there. He also has good bulk to get some more off and roost to heal.

Scrafty's main appeal, other than his natural bulk, is that he can restore any HP lost while DD'ing and attack at the same time. He can also keep boosting his attack with moxie. Scrafty also has dual STABs on the physical side, whereas Dragonite does not, well, at least none that you'd use anyway.

Yeah, it's close....

arceus7
11th August 2011, 10:24 PM
Which set do you think is better

bulk up HJK scrafty or dragon dance drain punchscrafty?

Grei
11th August 2011, 10:41 PM
Which set do you think is better

bulk up HJK scrafty or dragon dance drain punchscrafty?

That's strange, since usually DD goes with HJK and Bulk Up goes with Drain Punch.

Of the two you listed, I think being able to heal is best. Having increased speed so that you can heal any damage before taking more is a nice thing indeed.

Original151Rocks
11th August 2011, 10:42 PM
Scrafty. Hes bulky enough to do at least one

Ruby Blue
11th August 2011, 10:55 PM
Which set do you think is better

bulk up HJK scrafty or dragon dance drain punchscrafty?

Bulk Up, so I can possibly beat out Conkeldurr. And I'd use Drain Punch.
Honestly, I'd rather the bulk for Scrafty than add to it's piss-poor speed,

+2 Scrafty is still outsped by Scarf Haxorus :/

At double speed, it's still outsped by Scarf'd base 95's.

arceus7
11th August 2011, 11:08 PM
Well the thing is scrafty having a lower atk at 90 base is okay since if HJK misses the damage done to yourself is calculated by the str of the atk and you defence, so bulk up helps to cover that weakness. Mienshao is a wonderful example of HJK being deadly. he uses it once it misses and has like 10 hp left, only option is to outspeed with a uturn if the oponnent forces a miss with a move like protect, but if you get a hax miss your screwed

Ruby Blue
11th August 2011, 11:12 PM
Well the thing is scrafty having a lower atk at 90 base is okay since if HJK misses the damage done to yourself is calculated by the str of the atk and you defence, so bulk up helps to cover that weakness. Mienshao is a wonderful example of HJK being deadly. he uses it once it misses and has like 10 hp left, only option is to outspeed with a uturn if the oponnent forces a miss with a move like protect, but if you get a hax miss your screwed

?

I thought the damage done to yourself was how much you inflict on the opponent, capped at half your max HP?

Blue Harvest
11th August 2011, 11:24 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't like Dragonite? Maybe its just me but I've never had trouble dealing with it. Its just a matter of keeping it from getting full HP. It doesn't hit too hard without Life Orb and Outrage, and it if runs either one its easy to kill, or at worst revenge kill. Its also slow. With bulk it needs two Dragon Dances to outrun some scarfers, and even then its not getting around Excadrill. If it runs Roost, its coverage is lacking.

NinthLegion
15th August 2011, 7:47 AM
Ice Shard and Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave beat Mence/Nite/Scrafty. I like Gyarados, of which I have seen an oddly low number of mentions.
It has great bulk and attack, and with investment, its speed isn't terrible. My only problem is that it's not too great in the sun, but that's a fairly minor complaint. It has Taunt to prevent phazing, and it can run either Intimidate to try to force a switch (and therefore get a free DD) or Moxie for power. It also doesn't get murdered by priority. In fact, it resists most priority, and the only ones I can think of right away that it doesn't resist are ExtremeSpeed (very rare), Quick Attack (all but useless), and Sucker Punch (also fairly rare). It's also nice for baiting Electric moves if your Jolteon needs healing or your Gliscor needs a free switch-in.

Also regarding the HJK damage thing, I'm 90% sure that the damage done by HJK is calculated based on the damage you would have done to your opponent.

jesusfreak94
15th August 2011, 10:07 PM
Ice Shard and Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave beat Mence/Nite/Scrafty. I like Gyarados, of which I have seen an oddly low number of mentions.
It has great bulk and attack, and with investment, its speed isn't terrible. My only problem is that it's not too great in the sun, but that's a fairly minor complaint. It has Taunt to prevent phazing, and it can run either Intimidate to try to force a switch (and therefore get a free DD) or Moxie for power. It also doesn't get murdered by priority. In fact, it resists most priority, and the only ones I can think of right away that it doesn't resist are ExtremeSpeed (very rare), Quick Attack (all but useless), and Sucker Punch (also fairly rare). It's also nice for baiting Electric moves if your Jolteon needs healing or your Gliscor needs a free switch-in.

Also regarding the HJK damage thing, I'm 90% sure that the damage done by HJK is calculated based on the damage you would have done to your opponent.

Hi Jump Kick works differently now, iirc. Now you just lose half of your health whenever you miss.

Also, Quick Attack is useless? I believe Scizor would like to have a word with you, who runs Quick Attack specifically for Pokemon like Gyarados.

NinthLegion
16th August 2011, 7:00 AM
I said all but useless, not completely useless. There is a bit of a difference, albeit a small one, between nothing ever running it and one Pokemon running it occasionally to beat a certain threat. And anyways, I am of the opinion that Scizor does much better with Pursuit and Superpower than Quick Attack.

(ITP: semantics, semantics everywhere, and yes, I know I may come off as a bit intolerant and/or close-minded and/or a jack***.)

And regarding the HJK thing, huh. I didn't know that. I had assumed it was the same, and I derped. I guess that's just what I get for making assumptions.

LegendaryHero
18th August 2011, 1:33 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't like Dragonite? Maybe its just me but I've never had trouble dealing with it. Its just a matter of keeping it from getting full HP. It doesn't hit too hard without Life Orb and Outrage, and it if runs either one its easy to kill, or at worst revenge kill. Its also slow. With bulk it needs two Dragon Dances to outrun some scarfers, and even then its not getting around Excadrill. If it runs Roost, its coverage is lacking.

Pretty much this.

Dragonite is good, don't get me wrong, but it's primary purpose is not supposed to be a Dragon Dance sweeper, but more of a DD tank.

Salamence generally comes in, scares something out allowing for a free Dragon Dance, and proceeds to sweep late game. I've had INCREDIBLE success with Dancing with Salamence.. As a straight up sweeper, it really is incredible.

ParaChomp
18th August 2011, 1:48 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't like Dragonite? Maybe its just me but I've never had trouble dealing with it. Its just a matter of keeping it from getting full HP. It doesn't hit too hard without Life Orb and Outrage, and it if runs either one its easy to kill, or at worst revenge kill. Its also slow. With bulk it needs two Dragon Dances to outrun some scarfers, and even then its not getting around Excadrill. If it runs Roost, its coverage is lacking.That's why now you usually see Dragonite used for support (using Roost, Dragon Tail, Thunder Wave and filler).

I already said Rayquaza but in terms of OU, Salamence wins this round with its ability to set up easily thanks to Intimidate. That said, Gyarados can run a mean defensive Dragon Dance set.

20k
18th August 2011, 3:43 PM
DDance has become slightly obsolete, what with all the Scarfed pokemon with Base attack I can't begin to comprehend. And also Prankster Thundurus.

I'd have to say Scrafty, however Bulk Up works better on him, if you make it bulky.

R4GEKILL!!!
18th August 2011, 4:52 PM
Scrafty would work better with bulk up. His abyssmal speed is really not helped by DDance too much, unless you invest fully in it, which is idiotic if you want to have some HP bulk, So Bulk Up would seem like a much more appropriate answer...

jle1076
18th August 2011, 5:24 PM
Kingdra is probably the best ddancer right now with mixed double dance

jle1076
18th August 2011, 5:26 PM
Bulk up scrafty gets revenge killed easily

Aztec_Blaziken
18th August 2011, 5:29 PM
Scrafty gets crunch, ice punch, and drain punch.
That is great coverage to pull off a sweep

20k
18th August 2011, 5:35 PM
Bulk up scrafty gets revenge killed easily

Not with Sp. Def investment and +1/+2 etc defense.

Scarfed/Banded whatever comes in, tries to kill, doesn't kill, Drain Punch says hi.

jle1076
18th August 2011, 6:18 PM
That's strange, since usually DD goes with HJK and Bulk Up goes with Drain Punch.

Of the two you listed, I think being able to heal is best. Having increased speed so that you can heal any damage before taking more is a nice thing indeed.
Lol you're wrong, drain punch goes with ddance and ice pun h and crunch so you have reliable recovery and moxie plus dance give you plenty of power

jle1076
18th August 2011, 6:19 PM
Lol bulk up sets will have residual damage 99% of the time

jle1076
18th August 2011, 6:20 PM
Not with Sp. Def investment and +1/+2 etc defense.

Scarfed/Banded whatever comes in, tries to kill, doesn't kill, Drain Punch says hi.


I don't even need a scarfed mon lol

20k
18th August 2011, 6:31 PM
I don't even need a scarfed mon lol

Nothing OHKO's Scrafty after 2 Bulk Ups. Even banded.

20k
18th August 2011, 6:36 PM
Lol you're wrong, drain punch goes with ddance and ice pun h and crunch so you have reliable recovery and moxie plus dance give you plenty of power

Also what the hell Moxie? No. Scrafty gets burned and you're royally ****ed.

We're not arguing with you because we're being stubborn, you just don't know very much about the metagame. Shed Skin is always the better option, especially with Drain Punch to heal off any burn/toxic damage you would've taken.

Also you need to stop Double and Triple posting, or mods will attack your organs.

R4GEKILL!!!
18th August 2011, 7:01 PM
Also what the hell Moxie? No. Scrafty gets burned and you're royally ****ed.

We're not arguing with you because we're being stubborn, you just don't know very much about the metagame. Shed Skin is always the better option, especially with Drain Punch to heal off any burn/toxic damage you would've taken.

Also you need to stop Double and Triple posting, or mods will attack your organs.
^That.
But you could always just run Lum berry+Moxie on a DDance Set. I've seen that before. It's pretty annoying.

manaphy72
18th August 2011, 7:03 PM
for the current metagame, i think i'd have to agree in that scrafty is the most threatening dragon dancer. not only does he have the bulk to set up a dd or two, but his STABs + ice punch provide incredible coverage among the top bw threats. on top of that, he can choose between drain punch and hjk: the former being able to keep scrafty healthy and allow it to rip apart offense, while hjk lets scrafty muscle it's way past stall with a little bit of support. the only blemish on scrafty would probably be his lack of immediate power taking his 90 base atk into consideration. in comparison to tyranitar's, dragonite's, gyarados' and salamence's 125+ atk, 90 is pretty low, which can sometimes catapult some of those just mentioned to perform better than scrafty in certain situations.

i totally agree with you.

but i somewhat believe dragonite as well. but you guys are the experts but yes i say scrafty

20k
18th August 2011, 7:14 PM
^That.
But you could always just run Lum berry+Moxie on a DDance Set. I've seen that before. It's pretty annoying.

Bulk Up Resto Chesto is more annoying. Moxie or Shed Skin, either way that thing will set up and not give a crap who touches him. Because nothing can touch him.

R4GEKILL!!!
18th August 2011, 7:30 PM
Bulk Up Resto Chesto is more annoying. Moxie or Shed Skin, either way that thing will set up and not give a crap who touches him. Because nothing can touch him.

He Still gets Destroyed by Special Ed Attacks.

jle1076
18th August 2011, 8:14 PM
You're saying a specs focus blast from a thundurus won't ohko a scrafty?

MewTwoEx
18th August 2011, 8:23 PM
I agree with Scrafy, but I love Salamence so much I voted for him anyway :D

Pichu47
18th August 2011, 9:07 PM
You're saying a specs focus blast from a thundurus won't ohko a scrafty?


Lol, who would use a specs Thunderus. Nasty plot is sooo much better.

20k
18th August 2011, 10:18 PM
Lol, who would use a specs Thunderus. Nasty plot is sooo much better.

This.
10char.

Psycho Cut
18th August 2011, 10:20 PM
I would actually say Dnite is still better than Scrafty at DDing, due to it's natural superior power and speed

R4GEKILL!!!
18th August 2011, 10:28 PM
Crawdaunt rips sh*t apart in RU with Adapatability and DDance.

Tucan9999
19th August 2011, 8:47 PM
I think Nite is a better DD than Scrafty. In my experience a Bulk Up set on Scrafty with Leftys is nearly unstoppable. I usually ran Rest in place of Ice Punch on Moxie sets. A BU set with Ice Punch and Shed Skin would probably sweep pretty well as well. DD is just not Scrafty's thing.

Gelatino95
19th August 2011, 9:15 PM
I say Dragonite is best due to its already monstrous attack and Multiscale, and its below-average speed isn't a problem with DD's speed boost.

MetalFlygon08
20th August 2011, 2:36 AM
Tropius? anyone?

*BANG

20k
20th August 2011, 2:54 AM
Tropius? anyone?

*BANG

All about Whiscash bro.

M4zz
20th August 2011, 3:00 AM
t'hell with that.

Horsea. LC is baws.

Rezzuréct
20th August 2011, 4:34 AM
Whiscash for the DD

MetalFlygon08
20th August 2011, 6:41 AM
I still can't comprehend Wishcash dancing, especially dragon style.

R4GEKILL!!!
20th August 2011, 8:28 AM
Lol. A bunch of pokes get DDance that shouldn't. But flygon? Nahhh. Screw him.

kaiser soze
20th August 2011, 8:39 AM
Lol. A bunch of pokes get DDance that shouldn't. But flygon? Nahhh. Screw him.
If he did it would be a nice screw you to Garchomp.

Actually (99% will never happen but) it is in the Bug egg group, so if it had Quiver Dance?....

Remorph
20th August 2011, 9:30 AM
Best dragon Dancer of all time is:


Dragonite. He has the Defences to tank hits, is FASTER than scrafty, and has more base attack.

jle1076
20th August 2011, 9:40 AM
Scraftys typing gives it better defenses than dnite

arbiter7x
20th August 2011, 10:33 AM
Scrafty has drain punch, which allow for ATTACK while healing, epecially after the DD boosts which will bring the healing higher. However, Dragonite can abuse the removal of its flying type through roost to suck up Ice hits like a boss. Its really up to whether you want to hit faster and hard or hit slower and harder.

And yeah, I don't get why stuff like Scrafty and Whiscash get DD.

kaiser soze
20th August 2011, 10:45 AM
Lizards and Japanese legends I guess. They have something about a giant catfish.

R4GEKILL!!!
20th August 2011, 3:41 PM
If he did it would be a nice screw you to Garchomp.

Actually (99% will never happen but) it is in the Bug egg group, so if it had Quiver Dance?....

Flygon has 80/100/80/80/80/100
Quiver dance would be terrible on it.

MasterLucario
20th August 2011, 3:50 PM
Haxorus or Mence. They're just scary powerful after a DD. The only thing saving you from them is a Skarm/forre/ Ferro.

R4GEKILL!!!
20th August 2011, 4:51 PM
Haxorus or Mence. They're just scary powerful after a DD. The only thing saving you from them is a Skarm/forre/ Ferro.

Honestly... They don't scare me. They're both so frail, they get OHKOed easily. But yes, if they get one off, they could be scary.

BlazingCold
21st August 2011, 3:51 AM
Honestly... They don't scare me. They're both so frail, they get OHKOed easily. But yes, if they get one off, they could be scary.

When I used Haxorus, I could never get a DD off.

20k
21st August 2011, 12:43 PM
When I used Haxorus, I could never get a DD off.

Thats why people don't use it. Its alot better with a Scarf. ALOT better.

ParaChomp
21st August 2011, 3:26 PM
If he did it would be a nice screw you to Garchomp.

Actually (99% will never happen but) it is in the Bug egg group, so if it had Quiver Dance?....I wish Flygon got Dragon Dance however, it's based off a Dragonfly. Dragon Dance tutor, anyone?

jesusfreak94
21st August 2011, 3:33 PM
I wish Flygon got Dragon Dance however, it's based off a Dragonfly. Dragon Dance tutor, anyone?

I believe it's more likely based off an antlion than a dragonfly. Also, Quiver Dance wouldn't be bad. Flygon has an adequate special movepool. Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, Earth Power, and Fire Blast would all go well with that. The only problem is that is special attack is so...blah.

MetalFlygon08
21st August 2011, 9:56 PM
if Crobat can pull of Special, Flygon can pull of Special.

20k
21st August 2011, 10:26 PM
I believe it's more likely based off an antlion than a dragonfly. Also, Quiver Dance wouldn't be bad. Flygon has an adequate special movepool. Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, Earth Power, and Fire Blast would all go well with that. The only problem is that is special attack is so...blah.

80 SPAtk is... okay. I guess it would suprise the opponent, put specs on it, etc. Maybe I'll try it.

R4GEKILL!!!
22nd August 2011, 7:49 PM
80 SPAtk is... okay. I guess it would suprise the opponent, put specs on it, etc. Maybe I'll try it.

Why would you put specs on something that relies on a set-up move?

mudkips
22nd August 2011, 8:08 PM
Thats why people don't use it. Its alot better with a Scarf. ALOT better.

WHAT? *blinks and rubs eyes* did i see SCARF??? WHAAAT? anyway, those 3 are all scary. The worst out of the 3 is mence, not by much, just cuz its hard for him to get a DD up. And scrafty is VERY SCARY!

lucario44444444
22nd August 2011, 8:09 PM
What if metagross got DD

o.o

mudkips
22nd August 2011, 8:10 PM
What if metagross got DD

o.o

hey, horror stories arent making me feel any better.... lol

lucario44444444
22nd August 2011, 8:19 PM
hey, horror stories arent making me feel any better.... lol

Even better, Victini with DDo.o

Zekrom with DD

R4GEKILL!!!
22nd August 2011, 8:20 PM
Even better, Victini with DDo.o

Zekrom with DD

Zekrom with DD...
Oh god...
Kill me now...

Blue Harvest
22nd August 2011, 8:43 PM
Terrakion with Dragon Dance..

CraZy RudOlF
22nd August 2011, 8:56 PM
derpfish with dragondance

R4GEKILL!!!
22nd August 2011, 9:01 PM
Rayquaza with Dragon Dance. Oh Wait...

Psycho Cut
22nd August 2011, 9:17 PM
Lol...

This calls for a 'Put any move on any pokemon to make it as outrageously overpowered as possible' thread. :D

jesusfreak94
22nd August 2011, 9:34 PM
derpfish with dragondance

What, and put Whiscash out of a job?

Darmanitan with DD might be nice. Sheer Force Flare Blitz in the Sun...*shivers*

ParaChomp
22nd August 2011, 9:47 PM
Lol...

This calls for a 'Put any move on any pokemon to make it as outrageously overpowered as possible' thread. :DSubmitted a thread with a similar title.

lucario44444444
22nd August 2011, 10:39 PM
STOP GIVING ME NIGHTMARES

I agree with BH, Terrakion with DD WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mudkips
22nd August 2011, 10:44 PM
Terrakion with Dragon Dance..

HEY! I SAID NO MORE HORROR STORIES! lol :p

ParaChomp
22nd August 2011, 11:20 PM
Rampardos with Dragon Dance would be interesting but still, from what Haxorus has demonstrated, low defences and Dragon Dance don't mix. Aerodactyl however would be quite good possessing decent defences and incredible speed.

PokeMaster366
23rd August 2011, 12:05 AM
Haxorus w/ DD and Dual Chop is scary. Endurance can be fixed to a point with Focus Sash, but that's with any pokemon. Funny fact of the day: Gible, Gabite, and Garchomp are the only dragon types that can't learn Dragon Dance. The creators probably just didn't want him to become a total game breaker.

ParaChomp
23rd August 2011, 12:12 AM
Haxorus w/ DD and Dual Chop is scary. Endurance can be fixed to a point with Focus Sash, but that's with any pokemon. Funny fact of the day: Gible, Gabite, and Garchomp are the only dragon types that can't learn Dragon Dance. The creators probably just didn't want him to become a total game breaker.This metagame has way too much priority, I honestly find Focus Sash is only useful on Infernape and Smeargle. Also, Garchomp's uber, it's already a game breaker. As for the only dragon types that can't learn Dragon Dance: Vibrava, Flygon, Latias, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Arceus, Druddigon, Deino, Zweilous, Hydreigon, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem all say hello and that's a lot of hellos.

R4GEKILL!!!
23rd August 2011, 5:59 AM
Haxorus w/ DD and Dual Chop is scary. Endurance can be fixed to a point with Focus Sash, but that's with any pokemon. Funny fact of the day: Gible, Gabite, and Garchomp are the only dragon types that can't learn Dragon Dance. The creators probably just didn't want him to become a total game breaker.

I love how you forgot flygon. But then again, he's pretty forgettable...

Remorph
23rd August 2011, 6:11 AM
Dragonite and Scrafty have defence, and DD works best with a solid defense. Dragonite now has marvel scale, so we are talking HEAVY DEFENSE.

floatzel98
23rd August 2011, 12:34 PM
i think you mean multiscale

AwesomeSauce117
23rd August 2011, 12:44 PM
I constantly get swept by Dragon Dancing Dragonites on one of my teams.

arbiter7x
23rd August 2011, 1:48 PM
Scrafty can take more hits and set up slowly

Dragonite can sweep almost immediately and heal with roost

lucario44444444
23rd August 2011, 3:24 PM
I just dont like how DD dragonite always gets ruined by SR
Bu scrafty is also a very scray set

Scrafty seems to be popular now. Did my team make it Popular?

jle1076
23rd August 2011, 5:11 PM
Put kingdra in the poll

Ruby Blue
23rd August 2011, 5:36 PM
Put kingdra in the poll

No. It's walled to hell and back with DD.
You'd be better to include Gyarados.

CraZy RudOlF
23rd August 2011, 6:02 PM
and whishcash

Ruby Blue
23rd August 2011, 6:09 PM
and whishcash

This is Best DDer, not the DDer that sucks even in lower tiers.

20k
23rd August 2011, 6:17 PM
This is Best DDer, not the DDer that sucks even in lower tiers.

In that case Tropius should be up there.

jle1076
23rd August 2011, 7:21 PM
Lol my ddance kingdra doesn't get walled by nearly anything

Ruby Blue
23rd August 2011, 7:22 PM
Lol my ddance kingdra doesn't get walled by nearly anything

Ferrothorn exists.

jle1076
23rd August 2011, 7:26 PM
And that's why i have hp fire?

Ruby Blue
23rd August 2011, 7:31 PM
Without Special Investment, HP Fire fails ot OHKO Min/Min Ferrothorn :/


0HP/0SpD isn't OHKO'd.

jle1076
23rd August 2011, 7:33 PM
I have special investment lol every standar lonely mixed ddance kingdra does wow

Ruby Blue
23rd August 2011, 7:35 PM
I have special investment lol every standar lonely mixed ddance kingdra does wow

Then that just helps Unaware Quagsire to wall you.

EDIT: Even Modest LO Max SpA Kingdra, fails to OHKO Standard Ferrothorn ;/

jle1076
24th August 2011, 2:30 AM
2hko is perfectly fine by me

b3astown
24th August 2011, 2:52 AM
from my personal experience, dragonite is by far the best

1. salamence is FAR TO FRAIL, to get even 1 up
2. scrafty lacks the raw base power and speed to be able effectively use dd
3. dragonite can come in, dragon dance, then precede to sweep

lucario44444444
24th August 2011, 3:31 AM
from my personal experience, dragonite is by far the best

1. salamence is FAR TO FRAIL, to get even 1 up
2. scrafty lacks the raw base power and speed to be able effectively use dd
3. dragonite can come in, dragon dance, then precede to sweep

Salamence can get one up against Ferrothorn lol

Anyway, heres a good one, Lucario with Dragon Danceo.o

jesusfreak94
24th August 2011, 3:40 AM
Salamence can get one up against Ferrothorn lol


...and get paralyzed.

I will say, though, that Salamence's bulk hardly comes into play when setting up 1 DD. Just come into something you force out and set up on the switch. Now 2 DDs, that's another story.

CraZy RudOlF
24th August 2011, 1:44 PM
u realise tht after intiminate he gets higher physical bulk thn scrafty t~t [until they switch]

jle1076
24th August 2011, 2:30 PM
I love how my kingdra argument was cast aside by Unaware quagmire which would also wall all previous nominees lol pathetic arguments on serebii

Ruby Blue
24th August 2011, 2:35 PM
My opinion on the best Dragon Dancer varies a little,
I wouldn't use it on those 3 anyway.

I'd rather use MixMence, Bulk Up Scrafty or... Oh wait, I wouldn't use DNite anyway :P

Gyarados is an effective DDer.

20k
24th August 2011, 2:35 PM
I love how my kingdra argument was cast aside by Nasser quagmire which would also wall all previous nominees lol pathetic arguments on serebii

You can't OHKO Ferrothorn, and then you get T-Waved. Put it that way.

Again, you don't know much about the metagame. Use Kingdra in UU, thats fine, you can set up on Suicune and kill anything you want. But in OU, it sucks.

lucario44444444
24th August 2011, 3:26 PM
I love how my kingdra argument was cast aside by Unaware quagmire which would also wall all previous nominees lol pathetic arguments on serebii

Kingdra does not work as a good DDer....

Kingdra is now used to counter rain(swift swim)

He also runs rain dance on his set, to destroy the sun....

This set is getting popular and Kingdra may make OU

For anyone that wants to try the set

Kingra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift swim
evs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Hp
Mild
-Draco Meteor
-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Waterfall

To the Salamence haters. Well, Salamence after one DD is more deadly than any other person:/

But Scrafty is still the best....

Fabolous
24th August 2011, 9:58 PM
Scrafty based on the metagame atm is proboly the best DDer. However that doesn't mean that Salamence and Dragonite are still strong. You should include Gyarados and Haxorus in this discussion too because they both have access to Taunt which kind of puts them in another class because they can avoid being statused like Will-O-Wisp'd or para'd which can really ruin a sweep unless you have a medic.

BlazingCold
24th August 2011, 10:16 PM
Anyway, heres a good one, Lucario with Dragon Danceo.o

Nope. Lucario's less than average def. stats come to play when that happens (70/70). Although if you could get one off it's dangerous.

It can't learn it though lol

TheMaster
24th August 2011, 10:35 PM
Here i go:
Dragon Dance Dragonite is amazing, having the ability to set up easily isnt bad however in rain, or sandstorm it cant be that good, not even in hail since it needs about 2+ DD to sweep effectivly and still may have some problems
DD Salamence is good but it usually doesnt OHKO things as same as Dragonite (Altho it gets closer) but it is much more fraile which, after sr it gets OHKO by almost any super effective move but still does some damage.
DD haxorus is another thing. Reaching ridicusly damage after one dragon dance however it gets outspeed and since it isnt to bulcky it canbe KO not to difficult
That is why I think DD scrafty is the best. With the current metagame we can see many gliscors, celebis, Tyranitars and other pokemon weak to there stabs and ice. Besides, after one DD and a jolly nature it outspeeds a tornadus and proceeds to OHKO with ice punch, also having drain punch meens you have a recovery move that actually does a great damage. Even after that i personally prefer shed skin over moxie since, with prankster, some usually come to paralyze and with this that problem is solved. Yeah Scrafty is the best. Take it from a Dragonlover

Blue Harvest
24th August 2011, 10:54 PM
I love how my kingdra argument was cast aside by Unaware quagmire which would also wall all previous nominees lol pathetic arguments on serebii

Ferrothorn.
Jellicent.
Skarmory.

Now your argument is invalid.

Remorph
25th August 2011, 5:21 AM
i think you mean multiscale

Thanks for correction. Marvel Scale? What was I thinking yesterday? Must have been wigging out.

WHat's with everyone wanting Kindra in so badly? Kingdra sucks. All he's good for are rain counter teams.

Ruby Blue
25th August 2011, 12:23 PM
Thanks for correction. Marvel Scale? What was I thinking yesterday? Must have been wigging out.

WHat's with everyone wanting Kindra in so badly? Kingdra sucks. All he's good for are rain counter teams.

It's just one guy, but he's adamant about how great it is :/

Dark Sharpedo
25th August 2011, 12:39 PM
the two best DDers imo is Scrafty, and Mence. They both are bulky enough to survive anything that isnt one of their weaknesses and after one DD they are very hard to stop.

Pichu47
25th August 2011, 5:03 PM
^Dragonite is better with DD than Mence.

Ruby Blue
25th August 2011, 5:04 PM
^Not if SR is up.

CraZy RudOlF
25th August 2011, 5:11 PM
if ur opponent dnt have Stealth Rock, Sand or Hail Nite Can be better thn mence :L

however my favorite is Gyarados

Ruby Blue
25th August 2011, 5:12 PM
if ur opponent dnt have Stealth Rock, Sand or Hail Nite Can be better thn mence :L

What half decent team doesn't carry SR?

Pichu47
25th August 2011, 5:44 PM
^My team :). I also has about a 70% win record. You don't need hazards to win.

Blue Harvest
25th August 2011, 5:59 PM
What half decent team doesn't carry SR?

I got top 10 in OU, UU and Ubers with "6 random sweeper" teams that don't run Stealth Rocks. Its nice to have but not 100% needed to win.

lucario44444444
25th August 2011, 9:07 PM
I got a pokemon that has nothing to do with the thread but would be awesome
Excadrill iwth Smack down, ubers much?

Ruby Blue
25th August 2011, 9:36 PM
^ Uhh.... I doubt it.


You're hitting them with a base 50 move and they can easily switch to something to negate the effect.

lucario44444444
25th August 2011, 9:38 PM
^ Uhh.... I doubt it.


You're hitting them with a base 50 move and they can easily switch to something to negate the effect.

No, get THEM to switch into it

Farfan
25th August 2011, 9:42 PM
I'm testing a Bulky Dragon Dancer Gyarados and it is amazing, if he manages to taunt a wall after 2-3 DDnces he is my main sweeper :D

oh and..


I got a pokemon that has nothing to do with the thread but would be awesome
Excadrill iwth Smack down, ubers much?

I always tought that Excadrill can learn Smack Down!
It would make it by ALMOST impossible to take down, because he would smack his biggest enemies: Gliscor and Skarmory. With Air Balloon, Gliscor wastes 1 turn using Ice Fang to pop out the balloon.. Anyways Skarmory would use Whirlwind.

jesusfreak94
25th August 2011, 9:48 PM
I'm testing a Bulky Dragon Dancer Gyarados and it is amazing, if he manages to taunt a wall after 2-3 DDnces he is my main sweeper :D

oh and..



I always tought that Excadrill can learn Smack Down!
It would make it by ALMOST impossible to take down, because he would smack his biggest enemies: Gliscor and Skarmory. With Air Balloon, Gliscor wastes 1 turn using Ice Fang to pop out the balloon.. Anyways Skarmory would use Whirlwind.

The problem is, if you use Smack Down on the switch, you won't be at +2. At +0, Gliscor takes your attacks like a champ while you SD up. Skarm's a different story, but that and Bronzong are about all it helps you with.

Zachmac
28th August 2011, 10:34 PM
It mostly depends on your team. Tyranitar in sand teams(duh), Kingdra if your team has problems with rain(works well in smogon, were SS+Drizzle is banned), gyrados in rain(only if on smogon, kingdra on PO), scrafty for synergy to some teams(like mine, it also handles latis/gengar), and DW dragonite vs DW salamence if you want defensive or offensive.

Ninja Dewott
28th August 2011, 10:37 PM
What half decent team doesn't carry SR?
Even if they do, you'll either lead with Dragonite, or make sure you have a spinner

Zachmac
28th August 2011, 10:44 PM
Even if they do, you'll either lead with Dragonite, or make sure you have a spinner
Or an espeon/xatu.

Sakuma
28th August 2011, 11:34 PM
Dragonites multiscale makes sure you survive so you get free dragon dance and its attack is already high. so dragonite.

Vandslaux
29th August 2011, 12:33 AM
Definitely Scrafty. He has bulk to set up a few DDs, then get stronger after every kill. DNite is better off running a quite crippling Parashuffling set of Sub/T-Wave/Roost/Dragon Tail. If Mence runs Moxie, he's too frail. I use Scrafty as a late-game cleaner on my Hail team.

And Sakuma, there is a select few things that can kill Dragonite through Multiscale, like Excadrill's Adamant max Attack +2 LO Rock Slide.

Suicune3000
29th August 2011, 4:34 PM
Odd that TTar hasn't been mentioned.

Ultimate Champion
30th August 2011, 12:25 PM
Out of the three Pokémon listed in the poll, I'd say that the best Dragon Dancer is Dragonite.

lucario44444444
31st August 2011, 2:01 AM
Odd that TTar hasn't been mentioned.

This gen, Ttar is terrible

Swampert is my Homeboy
31st August 2011, 2:07 AM
Multiscale DD Dragonite is a beast. :D

I pick Dragonite.

irock245
31st August 2011, 3:04 AM
I've used DD scrafty to unatural sucess. He is a beast, and i use him in my bulky pogeymanz core.

Generic User Name
3rd September 2011, 3:13 PM
Scrafty. Hands down, though Dragonite is a close second.

Clipps
3rd September 2011, 3:54 PM
May not be the best, but Haxorus isn't too bad. With already an insanely high attack and decent defenses and speed. In the Train Station, I normally need 2 DD's in order to sweep teams.

Blackjack the Titan
3rd September 2011, 3:56 PM
Scrafty.
With its bulk and high defense, he can make a speedy tank.

b3astown
3rd September 2011, 4:00 PM
May not be the best, but Haxorus isn't too bad. With already an insanely high attack and decent defenses and speed. In the Train Station, I normally need 2 DD's in order to sweep teams.

ehh but haxorus is pretty frail and extremely slow, easily can take it out be4 it gets 2 dd's

Clipps
3rd September 2011, 4:07 PM
Just referred back, yeah, Special D is horrible, but Defence is about average and Speed isn't bad. Then again, I just got into Competitive battling, so I'm just learning.

Zz56
4th September 2011, 12:11 PM
Definetly Dragonite!

He's the only one of them where getting a OHKO on him is practically impossible! He also has roost, which is more reliable recovery that scrafty's drain punch. Finally, his moveset is collosall!

Go Dragonite!

(Yay, ma first post!)

Haru Glory
10th September 2011, 2:34 PM
ehh but haxorus is pretty frail and extremely slow, easily can take it out be4 it gets 2 dd's

That's why I use a female Haxorus with DD and Attract :D
Almost unfailable.

Today I had a battle, and a guy used a DD Whiscash.
It surprised me: since I've almost never used this guy, can someone explain me his good and weak points? (Also via MP)

Arceus94
1st October 2011, 9:14 PM
I prefer Dragonite.
But Charizard, Tyranitar, Altaria and Crawdaunt works too~