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arceusvictini
31st August 2011, 9:25 AM
Even though the awesomeness that has been granted to them this gen, they're still NU. Why? Discuss!

Blue Harvest
31st August 2011, 7:05 PM
Because they have a pretty limited niche role. They wall specific things but don't really do anything back besides spread status and be Ferrothorn's *****. On the right team they're incredible but you can't just throw them on the rooster like you could Latios or Tyranitar.

Ninja Dewott
31st August 2011, 7:07 PM
I agree, they do have limited roles, but imo they still deserve to be OU.

Blue Harvest
31st August 2011, 7:10 PM
I agree, they do have limited roles, but imo they still deserve to be OU.

OU is usage based, so no they won't be OU lol. Not unless usage SPIKES significantly (though Gastrodon usage is definitely rising)

The Imposter
31st August 2011, 7:57 PM
OU is usage based, so no they won't be OU lol. Not unless usage SPIKES significantly (though Gastrodon usage is definitely rising)

Ferrothorn can lay that down for you.

Sorry, I had to.

Anyway, I have to agree with BH here. Just because they have a niche does not mean that it is OU. By that logic we should make Farfetch'd OU because it has a niche as being the only effective user of Stick.

Blayd
31st August 2011, 9:32 PM
I like Gastrodon, in fact he's one of my favourite pokemon to use competetively. He walls amazingly and has a great ability, good typing too, unless your opponent is secretly packing Grass Knot. Overall, I'm surprised he's not OU

emboarrocks
31st August 2011, 9:36 PM
they should be in UU. Quagsire can stall very well and grastodon is awesome on sand teams(i've used one).

windsong
1st September 2011, 12:52 AM
PROTIP GUYS: TIERS ARE BASED ON USAGE STATS

j/s

Vandslaux
1st September 2011, 8:16 PM
Agreed. They should be UU. Only problem is that Milotic outclasses both as a UU bulky Water.

Dragard
1st September 2011, 8:19 PM
They'll be OU if people use them more. I highly doubt that will happen.

Pichu47
1st September 2011, 8:29 PM
Gastrodon is a great wall in OU. I stalled out a ferrothorn with stockpile/Recover and burn damage. he is a beast!

The Imposter
1st September 2011, 8:38 PM
Gastrodon is a great wall in OU. I stalled out a ferrothorn with stockpile/Recover and burn damage. he is a beast!

If you failed to get a Scald Burn and did not yet get Stockpile boosts, then Ferrothorn could have easily 1/2HKOd.

D-World
3rd September 2011, 10:23 AM
I've been using both of them in various teams, but to me Gastrodon stands out because it's strong enough to not have to run Toxic on it's set like Quagsire.

Ivanka
3rd September 2011, 12:45 PM
Gastrodon and Quagsire both seem to be very situational Pokemon. They're only usable to wall a certain number of Pokemon, and as Blue Harvest said, all they can really do is inflict status effects. As for their tier, it is all about usage, so if they're both not used much, then they will be NU.

Generic User Name
3rd September 2011, 12:50 PM
I believe they have potential to be UU, but not OU quite yet.

Mister_SGG
3rd September 2011, 1:01 PM
Why's everyone saying they should be OU? There's about a 2% chance of either of them getting there, the most they can hope for is UU.

Generic User Name
3rd September 2011, 7:08 PM
I use Gastrodon in OU. It protects well as a special wall. Storm Drain is an awesome ability.

Ninja Dewott
3rd September 2011, 7:15 PM
I'm fine with them in staying in UU. That means I can use them there XD

mycooly
3rd September 2011, 7:56 PM
If the tiers weren't based off usage gastro would totally be in OU
all of you saying its not ou material are retarded, its the best in OU, its better in OU then UU -_-

jesusfreak94
3rd September 2011, 8:34 PM
Gastro is pretty much doomed to be RU for a while, unless it's OU usage really picks up. Like BH said, it has a great niche in OU, but it's somewhat limited. It checks bulky waters and Thundurus, and it makes a good answer to Rain teams, but it's not like it's the only Pokemon that can do that. That said, it won't make UU either. Gastro is actually pretty bad in UU with all the Grass types running around like crazy. The same applies to Quagsire.

Not to say that either are bad. Both are great Pokemon, but unless they have plenty more usage, they will both be RU for a while.

Gelatino95
3rd September 2011, 9:35 PM
There's a reason they're both NU, you know. Ferrothorn is very common (for good reason) and Ferrothorns tend to carry Power Whip, which means a OHKO on both Gastrodon and Quagsire. If their threats are out of the way, I'm sure they can do very well. However, I'm pretty sure there are pokemon that do their jobs better. I'm not sure about Quagsire, but Storm Drain Gastrodon is probably outclassed by Jellicent, which has superior defensive stats and doubles as a spinblocker.

Psycho Cut
3rd September 2011, 9:40 PM
Gelatino's summed it up nicely there. Both are excellent pokemon, but others such as Jellicent do their job better. I still use Gastrodon sometimes, as I'm not that good with Jellicent, and Quagsire just annoys me, even if it is on my own team.

jesusfreak94
3rd September 2011, 9:49 PM
Lol, Jellicent doesn't do Gastro's or Quag's jobs well at all. Gastro soaks up hits from many Rain abusers easily on account of it being immune to both Water and Electric type moves. Gastro walls Rotom-W completely, provided it isn't carrying HP Grass. Jellicent dies to all those Electric attacks. Also, Quagsire is used to check set up sweepers with Unaware. Thundurus can't even 2HKO specially defensive Quag with Focus Blast since it's boosts are negated. Many set up sweepers just barrel through Jellicent, and of course it doesn't stand up to Thundurus at all.

Oh, and 900th post. Just sayin'.

Psycho Cut
3rd September 2011, 9:51 PM
Lol, Jellicent doesn't do Gastro's or Quag's jobs well at all. Gastro soaks up hits from many Rain abusers easily on account of it being immune to both Water and Electric type moves. Gastro walls Rotom-W completely, provided it isn't carrying HP Grass. Jellicent dies to all those Electric attacks. Also, Quagsire is used to check set up sweepers with Unaware. Thundurus can't even 2HKO specially defensive Quag with Focus Blast since it's boosts are negated. Many set up sweepers just barrel through Jellicent, and of course it doesn't stand up to Thundurus at all.
True. Quagsire's Unaware (a great ability) does set it apart from the others in a way, but Jellicent's ability to recover from switching into water attacks, cripple phsyical attackers with will-o-wisp and spinblock, makes it more useful in my eyes.

R4GEKILL!!!
4th September 2011, 2:57 AM
They're both used quite a bit in OU. Lol. Kinda strange that they're NU.

complete legitimacy
4th September 2011, 11:18 AM
Unaware Quagsire is just a pain to go against. If it runs Stockpile and gets to +3 on both sides, you're not killing that thing anytime soon.

Blayd
4th September 2011, 11:34 AM
True. Quagsire's Unaware (a great ability) does set it apart from the others in a way, but Jellicent's ability to recover from switching into water attacks, cripple phsyical attackers with will-o-wisp and spinblock, makes it more useful in my eyes.
I find that odd, Psycho. I don't think I've ever seen you use Jellicent, but I've seen you use Gastrodon XD

Unaware is just an evil ability. One of my main tactics is set-up sweeping, so as you can imagine, I have to kill that Quagsire fast, before it sets up with Curse/Amnesia or whatever.

Generally though, I find a good ol' HP Grass deals with it just fine.

Mayu808
4th September 2011, 1:31 PM
Thing is, I hate quagsire. Yes it's a great counter to HO teams, but he just sucks otherwise IMO. Gastrodon is a poke I do love. It's a like a loveable slug and a great check to rain and sometime sand teams. If sun teams didn't have so many damn grass types he could be a check for that too, but can be run on a sun team to check rain. Gastrodon actually kinda sucks in it's tier that it's in. I've used it in every tier, and I've swept in OU tiers after a predicted water move and some toxic. Yes it's situational, but gastrodon has the chances of being in OU now since it fits in the anti weather core of skarm/heatran/gastro. That's not gonna happen though because usage based tiers mean it's not getting the love I think it needs. Quagsire can just die for all i care. Useless outside of countering HO team that don't run a virizion or something.

Generic User Name
4th September 2011, 3:21 PM
Gastrodon is a great counter against Rain teams. It makes sure they don't "Rain on your Parade". I nicknamed mine "The Tarp". I have so many puns...

Psycho Cut
4th September 2011, 9:29 PM
I find that odd, Psycho. I don't think I've ever seen you use Jellicent, but I've seen you use Gastrodon XD
Yeah. True. I was tired then

Ignore me ;)

Soperman
5th September 2011, 4:56 PM
I love using Gastrodon on sand teams because whenever I predict a Water attack coming, BAM Gastrodon sweep.

Tyranitarquake
9th September 2011, 7:04 PM
i use a gastrodon that destroys rain teams. generally i use a pokemon weak to politoed's water move as bait, then switch it into gastrodon for storm drain. i also use a magnezone in the same team to deal with ferrothorn.

lucario44444444
10th September 2011, 5:09 PM
Just as I preditced, Gastrodon is OU now. DOn't believe?
Check this out
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454720

jesusfreak94
10th September 2011, 8:06 PM
Just as I preditced, Gastrodon is OU now. DOn't believe?
Check this out
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454720

The stats for this past month are kinda iffy, so I wouldn't take the results quite as seriously. At any rate, this does mean that Gastro is being used a lot more. Even if the real results were to show a lower usage rate, it would still probably be enough to make the OU cutoff.

Well I'm sincerely happy for the little sea slug. I guess he got the love he deserved after all. :)

lucario44444444
11th September 2011, 4:24 PM
The stats for this past month are kinda iffy, so I wouldn't take the results quite as seriously. At any rate, this does mean that Gastro is being used a lot more. Even if the real results were to show a lower usage rate, it would still probably be enough to make the OU cutoff.

Well I'm sincerely happy for the little sea slug. I guess he got the love he deserved after all. :)

Shellos is cool
Also, Ninjask HAS to be OU

BEST POKEMON OF ALL TIME


NINJASK
ELECTIVIRE
UMBEREON
MAGMORTAR
RAMPARDOS
and magikarp

Rezzuréct
12th September 2011, 8:35 AM
Well lucario is right Gastro and Quag has to be an OU Pokemon. Because they can STALL ALL THE DAY. Ninjask should be OU too! I also check that Ferro is top 5 on Smogon Ubers

RifleAvenger
17th September 2011, 6:08 PM
They're fine where they are. As much as I love my gastrodon, I have no illusions about what it does. It blocks electric and water, and dies to just about anything with sufficent strengh or with a grass move. It's just not all that great. Same goes for Quagsire, its got a few things it does well, and is inferior everywhere else.

Besides, if they're in lower tiers, then you can use them in more formats.

BlazingCold
22nd September 2011, 5:09 AM
This is like Kyruem, except without the ban.

Suck in UU,
Rock in OU.

Pichu47
23rd September 2011, 1:07 AM
Kyurem rocks in OU? Since when?

jesusfreak94
23rd September 2011, 1:09 AM
This is like Kyruem, except without the ban.

Suck in UU,
Rock in OU.

You mean it's like Kyurem, only the exact opposite.

BIGJRA
23rd September 2011, 1:11 AM
Because any grass type shall kill them.

arceusvictini
2nd October 2011, 7:55 PM
This has been... an interesting turn out of events. It started out with
"They are kinda good, but not extremely. They have too many counters"
to
"These things wall like hell. I hate it so much when people use one against me"

Soperman
2nd October 2011, 8:00 PM
Honestly, they only have one niche, as BH said earlier, but that niche is pretty helpful. And true, they have a massive grass weakness, but it isnt totally common (in OU there is one single grass type) and they still can do really well. I would say UU< but too many Grass types there as well.

Dark-Tyranitar
3rd October 2011, 2:21 PM
Honestly, they only have one niche, as BH said earlier, but that niche is pretty helpful. And true, they have a massive grass weakness, but it isnt totally common (in OU there is one single grass type) and they still can do really well. I would say UU< but too many Grass types there as well.

that one grass type is the most used thing in OU

Gamefreak
3rd October 2011, 3:54 PM
that one grass type is the most used thing in OU

Virizion, Celebi, and Ferrothorn are all very common. Celebi was popularized from Franky's RMT Wolfgang, and other successful teams.

Simipour
4th October 2011, 10:36 AM
But quagsire is in the top 60 OU pokemon on smogon. He's higher than whimsicott and machamp. And he completely walls the most used uber in kyroge.
Plus he looks so awesome :D

And gastrodon is 33 in OU usage if that counts for anything. I dont see how they can even be RU. UU maybe, but RU is a little harsh. I hate gastrodon but quagsire is a complete boss.

arceusvictini
4th October 2011, 6:17 PM
For the grasses, on Gastrodon you could run HP fire, and for Ferrothorn only (this is only for Quag) EQ owns him. Really, why do people say they're Ferro-weak when they can counter ferro (Although Quag con't counter Virizion and Celebi. He's doomed against them, unless they decide to calm mind spam and you have a surprise)