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Rezzuréct
13th October 2011, 10:08 AM
hey guys! I'm bored to play HO in 5th Gen so I think I can make 4th Gen HO Team. Meh I think this team is sucks but idk I'll try to play.


At Glance

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/482.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/376.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/230.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/392.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/212.pnghttp://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/248.png
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http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/482.png@ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Azelf is a potent support Pokemon with Light Screen and Reflect. Azelf's Speed almost always affords it one turn to place screens or Taunt despite attempts at Taunt or status against Azelf. Stealth Rock is for the entry hazard which is good.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/376.png@ Life Orb
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Agility
- ThunderPunch
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake

Agility is a necessity here to boost Metagross' Speed and set the stage for a potential sweep. Meteor Mash is the best STAB option, due to its naturally high Base Power. Earthquake provides fantastic coverage alongside Meteor Mash, as most Pokemon resistant to Steel will take a heavy hit from Earthquake. ThunderPunch is the preferred option to pick off threats such as Gyarados or bulky Water-types. Life Orb is the obvious choice here.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/230.png@ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rest

Suggested by Gamefreak. Excellent dual STABs in Waterfall and Outrage coupled with Dragon Dance make Kingdra become a top threat capable of sweeping unprepared teams. In addition, Kingdra's excellent defensive typing, along with its deceptively bulky stats allow it to take strong special hits and Dragon Dance with a comfortable amount of HP remaining. Suicune and Starmie, two of Kingdra's would-be counters, usually hope to bait Outrage, only to find themselves unable to stop Kingdra from setting up two or three Dragon Dances while Kingdra is able to Rest and restore itself to full health thanks to Chesto Berry. Chesto Berry will not cure anything but sleep, so Pokemon relying on Will-O-Wisp or Toxic will think that they have 'beaten' Kingdra, only to give him an opportunity to set up more before healing off status with Rest. With its boosted Waterfall, Kingdra is able to beat many Pokemon without locking itself into Outrage and becomes very difficult to stop if the opponent no longer has a defensive wall such as Skarmory or Forretress.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/392.png@ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge / Mach Punch

With a physical 120 Base Power STAB move (and maybe even two with Flare Blitz), Swords Dance Infernape is a major threat in terms of both sweeping and wallbreaking. After a Swords Dance, Close Combat will OHKO both Vaporeon and 252 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel, assuming Stealth Rock is in play, and Stone Edge will take out Dragonite, Gyarados, and Zapdos. Since all of these are common Infernape switch-ins, you usually will not have to worry about them switching out of your lethal attacks. Fire Punch is better since it scores the same OHKOs after a Swords Dance without causing recoil. Fire Punch easily OHKOes anything that it deals super effective damage to after a Swords Dance, and Close Combat and Stone Edge will clean up everything else. While Stone Edge is preferred for coverage, Mach Punch should really not be overlooked as an option. Mach Punch ensures that your team will not be swept by Swords Dance Lucario; it also has a chance to OHKO Heatran and will always OHKO Dugtrio after a Swords Dance, and it is generally useful for taking down random fast Pokemon as well as Choice Scarf users at low HP.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/212.png@ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SDef / 88 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack / Bug Bite
- Brick Break / Superpower

Suggested by Gamefreak. Swords Dance combines with Bullet Punch to give Scizor massive damage potential alongside powerful priority, hitting harder than Swords Dance Lucario's Extremespeed. Brick Break is the preferred move here, as after a Swords Dance boost, it has all the power needed to OHKO troublesome Pokemon such as Heatran and Magnezone. However, Superpower is always an option to nail these Pokemon on the switch and also deals significantly more damage to Skarmory. Superpower is capable of 2HKOing a non-roosting Skarmory after Swords Dance, though it comes at the cost of negating Scizor's Swords Dance boost and significantly reducing its defense. Quick Attack gives Scizor a priority option against Gyarados, Kingdra, Starmie, and Zapdos. Bug Bite is a STAB boosted by Technician, and Scizor's strongest attack for eliminating opponents such as Swampert, Suicune, and Vaporeon.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen4/platinum/248.png@ Lum Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch

After a Dragon Dance, Tyranitar has the power of the Choice Band set, speed of the Choice Scarf set, and the ability to change moves. Stone Edge serves as Tyranitar's main attack, packing excellent power. However, Rock Slide can be effective for two reasons. Firstly, it has enough power to OHKO Dragonite, Gyarados, Zapdos, and other common targets of Tyranitar's Rock-type STAB, but with 10% more accuracy than Stone Edge. Secondly, it has a very notable 30% flinch chance, which a Dragon Danced Tyranitar can use as a last-ditch effort to score some important 2HKOs. Crunch provides secondary STAB and reliable power. The last moveslot is used to provide important coverage. Fire Punch hits Steel-types hard as well as reliably OHKOing Scizor and 2HKOing Skarmory with 100% accuracy.

PurpleSwampert
13th October 2011, 1:43 PM
hm..
In fourth gen I didn't play much HO, but I'd like to say:
Make sure Champ doesnt come in on statuser, and why put Evs in Speed? Machamp isn't really going to be outspeeding much, you should pretty much stay with 252 Hp/252Atk Adamant, just because even without screens it'll be bulky as hell.
SD Gallade...Seems like priority could hurt it a lot. It does get Bulk Up, but idk what works for your team.
I would suggest you make Gyara Jolly and forget sub. A) you already have a Lum Berry, and B) after +2 or even just +1 it can KO plenty of the metagame, Jolly at +1 outspeeds Jolteons which you can EQ.

Ya'know....you're team is purely physical o_o....... and you have two dragon dancers.
Maybe make Ttar Tyraniboah? ( mixed attacker, basically) I think you should add a special attacker on there so like Defensive Skarm doesn't pretty much wall you.

Gamefreak
13th October 2011, 7:30 PM
This team is pretty good, but I already notice some problems at a glance.

For one, Substitute Machamp isn't ideal in Heavy Offense. Yes, it is really bulky with dual screens, but it can't boost its speed and attack, and bulk isn't an issue with Dual Screens. Against offense and defensive teams alike, you would appreciate the attack and speed boosts. The team needs to do as much damage as possible while the dual screens are up, and Substitute doesn't do that, especially without a Life Orb. In short, Machamp is more suited to slower Dual Screen Bulky Offense teams similar to this one. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65744

Two, while Staraptor may have great power, and speed is its game, it still cannot boost and is more easily walled than sweepers such as Swords Dance Infernape. Stathakis always visioned a faster Heavy Offense, and even used Spec'd Jolteon on one of his teams. However, his team was well equipped to deal with the cons from it, and it covered a weakness to Manaphy which is now non-existent. Staraptor also gives you a Stealth Rock weakness.

First, I would like to suggest Kingdra over your Machamp. Kingdra is a very good compliment to Gyarados, by helping the team against Starmie, bulky waters, and the fact that with dual screens it is nearly unstoppable. On an offensive team, not even Scarfed Flygon can stop you, which essentially means you win against offense. It is very bulky, and helps against Rain Dance teams which are a bane to this team.

With amazing STAB's, and only two hard checks in Metagross and Skarmory with dual screens, he is probably even better than pokemon like Lucario on this team. Metagross needs to explode, and Skarmory can't touch you. Both of them you can flinch too. I would suggest Chesto Rest, since with Dual Screens you can easily get +2 or better, then rest up.

Kingdra (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rest
- Dragon Dance

Over Staraptor, a pokemon such as Swords Dance Scizor is very great. Not only does it have priority which can save you in a pinch, it deals with lead Aerodactyl which HO has much trouble against, it is also a steel which is essential for resistences such as dragon. It has great bulk, hits very hard, deals with Scarfed Flygon. It also does great against lead Metagross, even against Explosion with a Reflect. Quick Attack OHKO's Starmie, Infernape, 2HKO's Gyarados, and other things after a Swords Dance. The EV's give you a Life Orb number, and they outrun most Magnezone and Skarmory.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpDef / 88 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Superpower

Some nitpicks would be running Ice Fang/Earthquake/Waterfall/Dragon Dance on Gyarados with a Jolly nature and a Life Orb. For one, those provide optimal coverage. Two, speed ties are very important in Heavy Offense, considering all the risks you take already. Speed ties are a common way HO takes risks anyway. Outrunning Jolteon is very important after a DD. Substitute is not very good with the Stealth Rock weakness, and Life Orb is needed to threaten things such as bulky Celebi more with Ice Fang.

Try running max speed on Gallade as well, and maybe Shadow Sneak for Gengar and Scarfed Rotom. I personally like Agility Lucario/Metagross, or SD Infernape in that slot, but the team is fine. DD Dragonite > Gyarados, then Agility Metagross > Gallade, SD Infernape > DD Gyarados is another way to route the team. If you don't like Kingdra, try DD Yache Dragonite by the way. He is really good, and fufills a similar role that Kingdra does. If you want to get creative Agility Dragonite can be just as good over DD Gyarados, and catches Scarfed Flygon off guard.

If you want any of the sets, feel free to PM me. Heavy Offense just has so much power in gen 4 when used correctly. Good luck!

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 7:31 AM
This team is pretty good, but I already notice some problems at a glance.

For one, Substitute Machamp isn't ideal in Heavy Offense. Yes, it is really bulky with dual screens, but it can't boost its speed and attack, and bulk isn't an issue with Dual Screens. Against offense and defensive teams alike, you would appreciate the attack and speed boosts. The team needs to do as much damage as possible while the dual screens are up, and Substitute doesn't do that, especially without a Life Orb. In short, Machamp is more suited to slower Dual Screen Bulky Offense teams similar to this one. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65744

Two, while Staraptor may have great power, and speed is its game, it still cannot boost and is more easily walled than sweepers such as Swords Dance Infernape. Stathakis always visioned a faster Heavy Offense, and even used Spec'd Jolteon on one of his teams. However, his team was well equipped to deal with the cons from it, and it covered a weakness to Manaphy which is now non-existent. Staraptor also gives you a Stealth Rock weakness.

First, I would like to suggest Kingdra over your Machamp. Kingdra is a very good compliment to Gyarados, by helping the team against Starmie, bulky waters, and the fact that with dual screens it is nearly unstoppable. On an offensive team, not even Scarfed Flygon can stop you, which essentially means you win against offense. It is very bulky, and helps against Rain Dance teams which are a bane to this team.

With amazing STAB's, and only two hard checks in Metagross and Skarmory with dual screens, he is probably even better than pokemon like Lucario on this team. Metagross needs to explode, and Skarmory can't touch you. Both of them you can flinch too. I would suggest Chesto Rest, since with Dual Screens you can easily get +2 or better, then rest up.

Kingdra (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rest
- Dragon Dance

Over Staraptor, a pokemon such as Swords Dance Scizor is very great. Not only does it have priority which can save you in a pinch, it deals with lead Aerodactyl which HO has much trouble against, it is also a steel which is essential for resistences such as dragon. It has great bulk, hits very hard, deals with Scarfed Flygon. It also does great against lead Metagross, even against Explosion with a Reflect. Quick Attack OHKO's Starmie, Infernape, 2HKO's Gyarados, and other things after a Swords Dance. The EV's give you a Life Orb number, and they outrun most Magnezone and Skarmory.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpDef / 88 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Superpower

Some nitpicks would be running Ice Fang/Earthquake/Waterfall/Dragon Dance on Gyarados with a Jolly nature and a Life Orb. For one, those provide optimal coverage. Two, speed ties are very important in Heavy Offense, considering all the risks you take already. Speed ties are a common way HO takes risks anyway. Outrunning Jolteon is very important after a DD. Substitute is not very good with the Stealth Rock weakness, and Life Orb is needed to threaten things such as bulky Celebi more with Ice Fang.

Try running max speed on Gallade as well, and maybe Shadow Sneak for Gengar and Scarfed Rotom. I personally like Agility Lucario/Metagross, or SD Infernape in that slot, but the team is fine. DD Dragonite > Gyarados, then Agility Metagross > Gallade, SD Infernape > DD Gyarados is another way to route the team. If you don't like Kingdra, try DD Yache Dragonite by the way. He is really good, and fufills a similar role that Kingdra does. If you want to get creative Agility Dragonite can be just as good over DD Gyarados, and catches Scarfed Flygon off guard.

If you want any of the sets, feel free to PM me. Heavy Offense just has so much power in gen 4 when used correctly. Good luck!
Thanks for the help. And yeah I'll try to replace Staraptor and Machamp.

hm..
In fourth gen I didn't play much HO, but I'd like to say:
Make sure Champ doesnt come in on statuser, and why put Evs in Speed? Machamp isn't really going to be outspeeding much, you should pretty much stay with 252 Hp/252Atk Adamant, just because even without screens it'll be bulky as hell.
SD Gallade...Seems like priority could hurt it a lot. It does get Bulk Up, but idk what works for your team.
I would suggest you make Gyara Jolly and forget sub. A) you already have a Lum Berry, and B) after +2 or even just +1 it can KO plenty of the metagame, Jolly at +1 outspeeds Jolteons which you can EQ.

Ya'know....you're team is purely physical o_o....... and you have two dragon dancers.
Maybe make Ttar Tyraniboah? ( mixed attacker, basically) I think you should add a special attacker on there so like Defensive Skarm doesn't pretty much wall you.
This is a Physical HO, so I can't replace DD to Boah. And thanks for the suggestion!

DarumakkaImposter
14th October 2011, 7:40 AM
hm..
In fourth gen I didn't play much HO, but I'd like to say:
Make sure Champ doesnt come in on statuser, and why put Evs in Speed? Machamp isn't really going to be outspeeding much, you should pretty much stay with 252 Hp/252Atk Adamant, just because even without screens it'll be bulky as hell.
SD Gallade...Seems like priority could hurt it a lot. It does get Bulk Up, but idk what works for your team.
I would suggest you make Gyara Jolly and forget sub. A) you already have a Lum Berry, and B) after +2 or even just +1 it can KO plenty of the metagame, Jolly at +1 outspeeds Jolteons which you can EQ.

Ya'know....you're team is purely physical o_o....... and you have two dragon dancers.
Maybe make Ttar Tyraniboah? ( mixed attacker, basically) I think you should add a special attacker on there so like Defensive Skarm doesn't pretty much wall you.

HO uses only Physical or Special attacks and wins. gg

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 8:21 AM
MAJOR CHANGES! Look at the first post!!

DarumakkaImposter
14th October 2011, 8:28 AM
Tell Electivire to GTFO your team and have Flygon be able to det up.

(chew)

DarumakkaImposter
14th October 2011, 8:38 AM
^ lool!!

10chars

Sorry about that, I meant set. Electivire needs to set up... which he can't do.

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 8:50 AM
Any suggestion guys?

Gamefreak
14th October 2011, 9:11 AM
^ lool!!

10chars

Posts like this are spam, frowned upon, and consistently doing it will lead to consequences. Post deleted. Also, it would be polite to acknowledge Daru's suggestion.

Electivire and Flygon are meh. They don't hit hard at all, and can't boost. They offer very little synergy to the team, and pokemon such as Lucario literally hit 1.5% harder. Flygon and Electivire don't have the oomph to actually give Swampert, Gliscor, and other physically defensive pokemon hell.

Just because you hit something super effectively, doesn't mean you will actually kill it. STAB is very important for sweeping. Without Gyarados or Kingdra, Starmie and Infernape just destroy you. The team is also top heavy, meaning you need more ways to boost your speed to reliably break apart offense. You also have no more water or fighting resists. o_o

Just because you have dual screens, doesn't mean you should ignore defensive synergy. It is still very important, and you won't always have dual screens.

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 9:29 AM
^ okay Game you're the master so I would replace Electivire to Kingdra.

Gamefreak
14th October 2011, 9:38 AM
Replace Flygon too. What do you do if Skarmory or Breloom come in against you and set up? Fire Blast doesn't help against specially defensive Skarmory, and being locked into a piss weak Outrage is a bad thing too when the steels come in.

At least the generic steels take a ton from Dragonite's boosted Outrage, even getting 2HKO'd. Also mixed with Flygon is not an option, as it forces you to switch with Draco Meteor. It also makes you weaker on both sides of the attacking spectrum and forces you to predict more often, which is bad.

DarumakkaImposter
14th October 2011, 9:44 AM
^ okay Game you're the master so I would replace Electivire to Kingdra.

Yes, Flygon could also be replaced with Dragonite

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / ExtremeSpeed

Dragon Claw and Outrage are both excellent STAB attacks. Dragon Claw is the more reliable option thanks to its lack of confusion, but Outrage has 50% more power and gives several OHKOsthat Dragon Claw wouldn't, such as against offensive Suicune after a Dragon Dance. Earthquake gives Dragonite a way to hurt Steel-types that resist its STAB, and ExtremeSpeed allows Dragonite to deal with faster Pokemon that can be a problem. Watch out for Choice Scarf Flygon though or ther Choice Scarf users.

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 9:45 AM
Another MAJOR CHANGES!

Gamefreak
14th October 2011, 9:56 AM
60HP/252Atk/196Spe is all you need on Agility Metagross to outrun Scarfed Rotom after an Agility so you can 2HKO it with Meteor Mash, assuming they lack Overheat. (Most of them lack it.)

Use a Jolly nature to outrun Scarfed Flygon as well, a very common threat. Team is a much better now, but it would really appreciate a ground immunity. Most walls have Earthquake, and if most of your sweepers are weak to Earthquake, breaking through them becomes a slightly harder task.

Rezzuréct
14th October 2011, 9:59 AM
^ Checked and Changed!

Rezzuréct
18th October 2011, 8:49 AM
BUMP!! Come on, I think I need more suggestion!!

qwerty1111
18th October 2011, 5:58 PM
just a minor tweak: quick attack is lame on a scizor with bullet punch so maybe replacing it with roost(to heal off damage) or like you mentioned bug bite
bug bite can take out starmies and at least 2hko kindras
bug bite after stab and technician boost brings the base power to 120 which is the same as quick attack when it is not very effective

Gamefreak
18th October 2011, 7:50 PM
just a minor tweak: quick attack is lame on a scizor with bullet punch so maybe replacing it with roost(to heal off damage) or like you mentioned bug bite
bug bite can take out starmies and at least 2hko kindras
bug bite after stab and technician boost brings the base power to 120 which is the same as quick attack when it is not very effective

Quick Attack OHKO's Infernape and Starmie on average after a Swords Dance. It also 2HKO's Kingdra, and Gyarados. It has great neutral coverage, and I use it more than one would think.

Bug Bite is a great wallbreaking move, so that is a fair suggestion. I wouldn't use Roost, since it wastes time with screens, and it is just asking to get crit. With Heavy Offense, it isn't like you need to have Scizor last for a long time. Just SD, kill something, then sacrifice. Roost takes pressure off the opponent.

qwerty1111
18th October 2011, 9:22 PM
yeah you are probably right
one more thing: a dragonite/salamence(with a nature that raises speed) might pose as a danger to this team
fire blast/fire punch takes out scizor and possibly metagross
earthquake takes out infernape and does a chunk of damage to tyranitar
draco meteor/outrage does quite a lot to kingdra/azelf
only metagross or tyranitar can stand a hit

Gamefreak
18th October 2011, 10:19 PM
Thankfully Salamence is banned, if you use Smogon's list.

Dragonite also won't get a chance to set up against this team since everything hits it really hard. If you can lock it into an Outrage, you can set up. If it uses Draco Meteor or Superpower, you can set up especially with screens. Scizor can pick it off, while Infernape outruns and hits it with Stone Edge,

qwerty1111
19th October 2011, 2:51 AM
but maybe after a few ddances it can sweep
scizor can only take it down after a swords dance
but other than that i would say this is a 9.9999/10 team

Gamefreak
19th October 2011, 6:08 AM
I don't think Salamence can get a dragon dance or even multiples against this team. Every pokemon on his team can hit it very hard and HO rarely switches.