PDA

View Full Version : Gothitelle Deck



Lumos77
19th October 2011, 11:35 PM
Gothitelle
Pokemon 20
4-2-4 Gothitelle
3-1-2 Reuniclus
1 Pichu
1 Reshiram
1 Kyruem
1 Victini
Trainers 29
4 Rare Candy
3 Junk Arm
4 PONT
3 P.C.
1 Burned Tower
3 Max Potion
3 Catcher
4 Collector
2 Twins
Energy 11
8 Psychic
1 Fire
3 DCE

Strategy
Get a Zekrom out for stall or the same with a Gothita. Set up a Gothitelle and get out Reuniclus after that. Pretty much sweeping after that, healing with Max potion on zekrom, and maybe finishing with outrage.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 12:15 AM
This is my first critique since Im reentering TCG.

first, what if (will happen at least every other tourney) your gothorita is prized? 3-2-3 or even 3-2-2 is better. Its your main attacker for (religion holy dood's) sake.

Your right with trainers, but switch a fisherman for a collecter, you need that sort of search power in here.

Drop a psychic or two for rainbows, i know kyruem is water but havent seen the scan so correct me if I'm wrong. If it has outrage, forget that.

in TCGO hax works with you more often than not (so ive heard) and their meta is different.

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 12:28 AM
Well, thats what rare candy is for. You almost never use Gothorita. And yes, Kyruem has outrage, for Reshiram and such. I'm not sure about collector, since I need to get that energy back when blue flare + plus power = death

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 12:37 AM
true, but a speedy enough start compensates. In tourneys, a quick enough start gothielle stays there the whole game. and gothielle locks pluspowers, unless your talking about kyruem, but the point of him is to attack at near death. If you don't drop a fisherman, 9 psychic is really all you need.

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 12:43 AM
Yeah, you have a point, but what else should I add?

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 12:57 AM
Oooo... burned tower can really speed it up.

ven?
20th October 2011, 1:02 AM
let's see... to slow, so...

4 Rare Candy
4 Junk Arm
2 Seeker
2 SSU
2 dual ball
4 communication
3 catcher
1 burnt tower
3 Max Potion

2 rescue energy and if anything, if you're putting kyurem in there you might as well take it out for gardevoir to double gothi's attack.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 1:06 AM
erm gardevoir isn't out for 3 months ven, if i'm correct.

And yay, my first critique had the right idea (well, according to you anyway)

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 1:08 AM
Sadly, the Gardevoir your talking about isn't out for america, and what does SSU mean?
And isn't Duel Ball an inferior Collector?

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 1:19 AM
dual ball can be stacked many times a turn, unnecessary supporters slow a deck. SSU=super scoop up(so you get energy back)

ven?
20th October 2011, 1:22 AM
let's see the next big thing would be city's, and 3 month's, don't you mean 4 after the beginning of November. Who cares if it's in January, unless you're leagues a bunch of wimp's it's still just a tech to help out gothi.

collector waste's the re-draw per turn and dual ball doesn't, options to better hand's with cards like prof oaks new theory, copycat, juniper and judge should always stand above that, if you we're running ZPS I'd tell you to put as many collector in as you can just spam shay's, pachi's, nad's and zeks to the bench asap, but you need a speedy option to stage 2 setup asap, and trainers are that best option.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 1:26 AM
yeah i know, but all that is simply theorymon until the tangible card is released.

ven?
20th October 2011, 1:34 AM
I do theorymon and I'm usually right about these thing's, probably because I play to much pokemon. I look at it like this 110 to 180, and all thanks to a combo of 3 cards.

When I give deck advice, theorymon, but it's theorymon that gives result's and that's what I want to give the pokemon tcg player's of serebii's, result's.

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 1:42 AM
Ok, made the changes. Anything else need to be changed?
I will put in the Gardevoir when it comes out.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 1:52 AM
Wow ven sounds like you were defending your unalienable rights, but gardevoir is great to outspeed its few techs that can OHKO it from setting.

Deck seems ok, but test it out, remembering its a T2(T3 at most) gothielle or BUST!

ven?
20th October 2011, 2:31 AM
hmm, i'd say 3 cleffa and 1 jirachi, it's just a tech anyways.


I do, but the ultimate thing is no matter what I say it's always usually dissed then taken, it''s always a hate love thing. And I never take my own advice sadly enough, lol.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 3:01 AM
<Lol> ven you seem like a person who would win worlds with a theme deck you bought at wal-mart for some reason. Maybe its cuz you stalk the meta unforgivingly. Laymans terms: you play a bunch of pokemon </lol>

ven?
20th October 2011, 4:06 AM
with a starter, I bet it would work better then the ones I would take to tourny's. I haven't been to worlds in a long time, and when i did I only made it halfway, they're are better people then me out there they just decide to do what I don't, shut up.

teh_original_pikachu
20th October 2011, 4:25 AM
Cool ven, minus the shut up ;~(.

How you manage getting to worlds?

ven?
20th October 2011, 5:31 AM
My parents payed, for a year of free chore's, hehehe.

question to the creator of this deck, did you have an attachment to the mismagius in this deck?

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 6:23 AM
No, I didnt even have it yet. Why?

ven?
20th October 2011, 6:28 AM
Was just wondering, I thought you liked it or something. Also if you don't have the cards to run this deck and want them for regionals we can do a verified trade on pokebeach or here for the cards you would need.

Lumos77
20th October 2011, 2:50 PM
How do we do that?
Sorry, I'm new to the online community.

ven?
21st October 2011, 1:36 AM
Well either here or the pokebeach, whatever makes you feel more comfortable about the trade, either way I'm a verified trader and have no quam's in making sure that you get the cards you need to run you're deck asap, cause they say I'm nice (except when they call me, no). So that being said here's an idea, list you're wants for the decklist here on the forum, that way it's related to this deck, then you can post you're haves in what you're willing to trade. We then make a verification of the traded items over the thread or by pm (including eachother's address's), then send through the mail, taking up to 1-3 weeks, after that period of time in which we both post weather or not we got them, that way it's a legit trade in which we are both satisfied with the trade. What do you think?

Lumos77
21st October 2011, 1:45 AM
Sure. Do I post here or on another thread?

ven?
21st October 2011, 1:57 AM
Hmm send me a pm with you're want's and haves.

Manaphione123
30th October 2011, 5:51 PM
Running a similar deck myself, I shall tell you that, when it comes out, Gardevoir will be amust. Plus, if, in practice, set up speed proves to be slow, Twins and N should be put in.

Lumos77
31st October 2011, 3:55 AM
Ok, made the changes, and some more taken from a freinds deck:)
Any other suggestions?

ven?
2nd November 2011, 6:45 AM
N is pretty much a waste space version of prof oaks new theory, no offense.

Manaphione123
2nd November 2011, 7:24 PM
Umm... Not really. With a deck like this, you're opponent is bound to be in the lead before you set up, thus, N would force a hand change for them, whilst restricting hand size.

ven?
2nd November 2011, 8:59 PM
Getting a challenge, I respect however, your wrong. With the fact of gothitelle having a slower setup, you're bound to lose more prize's, that in mind if you're just lessening the amount of re-draw for less options and widening they're list of options you're respectively kicking yourself in the balls. Again respectful.

The only kind of deck that should be using N, ever, should be a ZPST stylized deck, they benefit from an early tko, allowing them to lessen they opponent's strategy and widening your's kind of like a chatot G and cyrus, or slowking and research paper's strategy.

Another analogy, Twins versus N, oh I want to shuffle for less cards in my hand then my opponent for a 50/50 chance of setting up gothi, eff no, I wanna search and setup gothi 100% asap.

Manaphione123
5th November 2011, 3:34 PM
Um. No. That made very little sense. N forces a hand shuffle and then draw the amount of prizes you have left. Gothitelle is slow starting quite often. Your opponent will therefore have already taken a prize. Meaning, you will draw 6 and they will draw 5, limiting their options whilst acting as an Oak for you. Alternatively, wait until late game and limit their hands even further.

Lumos77
6th November 2011, 12:39 AM
Honestly, twins is better in this deck because in the case that I start out early it will hurt me more than it helps, and it helps them a ton if they only have 1 card or something.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 12:47 AM
I agree with you there. I personally don't see the hype for N. It just seems like an alternative Oak.

ven?
6th November 2011, 5:54 AM
Let me make this simple, N is better for donk decks that get easy tko's early game so it can get as many cards as it can into you're hand, twins is better for slow deck's like this so you can get the card you need asap to shut the donk decks down asap. N does not help gothitelle or any other trainer lock deck. Why would you want to give your opponent a better hand when you've already lost a prize and they get 6 back to there hand versus you're 5, anymore explanation and you've explained it yourself.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 7:52 AM
N gives you the amount of prizes you have left. Therefore, if you're losing, you get the better hand.

ven?
6th November 2011, 8:42 AM
Guess I gotta read it for you,

N: Each player shuffle's his or her respective hands into his or her decks and draws a card for each of his or her remaining prize cards.

A.K.A this only works in donk type deck's like ZPTS, you get the early game donk, use N next turn they draw 5 you draw 6, ohko, n again you 6 they 4, then again, you 6 they 3, then again, you 6 they 2, you just killed 4 of they're's versus 0 of you're's, they're at a disadvantage because you lowered the amount of playable cards in they're hand reducing in them being able to do anything.

Now I don't know what meta you come from, but where I come from, which is second in canada, we want as many cards into our hand asap, you want to be drawing as many cards as possible to setup you're stage 2 deck, like asap, why? you need you're staged evo's, you're tech cards, you're supporter cards, you're trainer's to setup flawlessly, all in all you need more in you're hand to get that easy setup then sustain you're hand for critical play, the less cards you have, the harder it is to setup the gothitelle and the reuniclus line's, and the less you have to run with. So yes you need to either search for the cards asap with twins or draw more cards for the setup Pont and cleffa so you go through 12 card hand's per turn, N does not, as N does not give you more cards because you lose more prizes, it lets you draw less cards via prizes and in actuality, you're stuck with N and you have to play it for a better hand you might as well save for a juniper to get rid of it so you can get a 7 card hand versus 3 or 4 cards. Why is This actuality, because gothitelle decks rely on them killing you're active cleffa to twin's for the auto ohko gothi and or setup reuni, if they we're to use that same strategy you might as well kick yourself in the balls if you're a guy or cut off you're finger or something, because it defeats the purpose of the auto setup.

In this format you want to get more cards to your hand not less, if you lose with a trainer lock deck you want to twins before anything else to setup you're trainer lock asap.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 10:22 AM
When you defeat a Pokémon, you draw a prize. Therefore, if you're opponent has defeated 2 of your Pokémon, and you have defeated 1, using N will put you at an advantage. So, slow start stage 2 decks like Gothitelle/Reuniclus benefit from this advantage.

ven?
6th November 2011, 1:21 PM
Have you ever played against a gothitelle deck or have one? If you do you would see, that that does not work. If I explain why, I'm just repeating myself.

One last anology, this is a run down of a gothi deck with N versus a ZPTS DECK TI
1. gothi goes first, start's with a solosis active no bench (this is common), play's dual ball 1 heads 1 tails, go's through the deck for a cleffa, drop a psychic for the switch or a switch (minus -1 card), drop's a PONT, new hand, drop's a goth and a dragon, use's EEEEEEEEKKK, end turn, tails,
1. ZPTS, smile's like a mofo, set's pachi and shamyin drops a rescue under the active zekrom, zekrom T1 120, drops a tornadus bench, use's catcher, plus out the benched goth, switches, use's seeker's on the shaymin, dragon back to hand, goth is dead for 120.
2. gothi, starts with only ceffa as the active, has no other options but to play eeeekkk and stall for a turn, head's thats game.

(Now this is a mildly bad start for gothi, but it give's you an understanding to the speed of a gothitelle deck, no gothitelle deck starts off that fast and even when they do, they can only deal 70 dmg, nothing more, so it's not like they're that effective, point in case these are the instance's, which are 7 in 10 to 8 in 10 with trainer lock deck's, where you're opponent will kill you're cleffa, or bring out and kill either you're solosis or goth asap so you can't setup, taking that into consideration you need other options and N is to much of a gamble to think about.


When you defeat a Pokémon, you draw a prize. Therefore, if you're opponent has defeated 2 of your Pokémon, and you have defeated 1, using N will put you at an advantage

How does that work in this format? IT doesn't, you need more cards not less, giving you're opponent more cards to trounce you with is a bad idea.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 1:53 PM
You would be getting more cards than them! If you have already lost a Pokémon when you use N, then they get 5 cards, you get 6. What's bad about that?

teh_original_pikachu
6th November 2011, 9:30 PM
For gawds sake thats what twins are for. N is only good for lostgar/mill/donk - decks that don't plan on winning by taking 6 prizes, or any for that matter.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 9:32 PM
I agreed to that last page. Twins is superior. Run both Twins and Oak. That is brilliant coverage.

teh_original_pikachu
6th November 2011, 9:37 PM
For goth you would want pokemon communication+collector combo to get a T-1 good hand. Then MegaJudge would screw you up and you'll lose :p

But PONT is a good card for setups too, but run 1 or 2; because you'll just want to stall the game with trainer spams.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 9:40 PM
How about you write a Trainer/Supporter list for a Gothi/Reu deck? That way we could understand perfectly. And I could steal it for my own deck.

teh_original_pikachu
6th November 2011, 9:46 PM
Erm... gimme a minute. I'll write my own whole decklist

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 9:47 PM
Yeah sure. That's brilliant. I'll write mine in a bit.

teh_original_pikachu
6th November 2011, 10:36 PM
Okay I slopped this together over lunch (had fish fillet :D) but have put a versatile and fun variant on goth lock for them Juniors/Seniors to play (cuz face it, stall decks are usually boring)

Pokemon:17
--------------
3-1-4 Gothitelle EP
2-1-2 Reuniclus BW
1 Jirachi CoL
2 Zekrom BW
1 Teddiursa (CoL?)

Trainers 31
--------------
Rare Candy 4
Junk Arm 4
Max Potion 4
Pokemon Collector 1
Pokemon Catcher 3
Pokemon Communication 3
Twins 3
PONT 2
Juniper 2
Dual Ball 2
Seeker 1
Burned Tower 1
Cheren 1

Energy:12
---------------
8 psychic
2 DCE
2 Rescue

So, the start can go a few ways. This is my ideal/favorite one: start with Teddiursa. Collector for a gothita/solosis/filler. Play gothita and do communication for gothitelle. Use teddiursa and hope for heads for T1 trainer lock. He'll die but oh well. With gothita active, use rare candy for gothitelle, another for Reuniclus T2/T3. Use Twins for Rare Candy + Reuniclus for this. Put down a zekrom for taking the damage, and Max Potion it when its close to death, unless you wanna outrage incase goth dies. Bad for yanmegas tho. To get ahead before the 30+3 is up; draw cards like cheren, Juniper, Twins. To get speed for prizes; catcher and burned tower. Junk arm for convienience, seeker for yanmega tech/etc. PONT for startup.

Manaphione123
6th November 2011, 11:00 PM
That's good. Here's what I quickly put together.

3-2-3 Gothi
3-2-3 Reuni
1 Zekrom
1 Pichu
--------------
2 DCE
8 Psychic
2 Rescue
--------------
3 Oak
3 Candy
3 Catcher
3 Twins
3 Communication
3 Junk Arm
2 Energy Search
2 Energy Exchanger
2 Cheren
2 Switch
1 Seeker
1 Pokegear
1 Burned Tower
1 Energy Retrieval

Obviously it's imperfect, that's because I've been thinking mostly about the cards I have.

teh_original_pikachu
7th November 2011, 1:45 AM
Thats good enough if its from your collection. I have no cards, my parents don't let me buy/play cards, so its mainly theorymon for me.

ven?
7th November 2011, 3:07 AM
I will admit that I'm wrong but I do not think that N is a good card for this deck, why? because you don't need to give they're hand an additional re-draw phase, if you're running yanmega thats a different discussion.

teh_original_pikachu
7th November 2011, 3:16 AM
@ven? and then, copycat/judge is still better.

ven?
7th November 2011, 3:31 AM
Not what I meant at all but whatever.

ven?
7th November 2011, 3:37 AM
Cleffa is a better setup card then pichu and teddiursa, It' doesn't help you're opponent and it doesn't give easy ohko's, cleffa is the prefect starter for the deck, also running more dragons in the deck is better as reuniclus is a dragon combo maker setting up a zek, reshi, and kyu within any kind of ohko range you want.

I also disagree, for goth you want to run communication with dual ball not collector, this gives you the option to use pont and recycle it with junk arm to go through a 12 card hand per turn with cleffa setting up the energy needed to play as hard and fast as effectively needed, then wall for a turn, hench why the deck is such a beast in setup and long term play.

teh_original_pikachu
7th November 2011, 4:10 AM
hmm... I understand how cleffa is best but consistent PONT + 2 dual ball 1 collector should be enough to compensate. A 1/6 chance of opening good draw power that way in my deck.

ven?
7th November 2011, 4:19 AM
Hmm, I used to think that way until I thought of two things that we're way important for the overall strategy, dual ball is better for 2 reason's, it slims down you're deck for cards that you need and allowing it to be easier to play pont without having to take a turn for only setup, for for-instance, turn one you have dual ball, you luck out and get 2 heads thats a goth and a solosis,or you don't thats fine, you just got rid of one card to increase a single chance to get a goth or solosis in you're hand after PONT, play pont, dual ball + communications (I love this strategy the turn after you set a basic with a rare candy in hand), setup the rest of you're bench plus the rights to drag out an evo to setup a stage for next turn, either that or you just slimed out you're deck 4 cards to increase the chance's of drawing into more pokemon and energy.

Manaphione123
7th November 2011, 8:44 AM
Ven? - How about you write up a decklist as well?

teh_original_pikachu
7th November 2011, 11:26 PM
Hmm... I see ven? Double PONTing your first turn is a badass start, but 1cleffa should be enough.

Manaphione123
8th November 2011, 12:12 AM
Has this just turned into a discussion about Gothilock? Anyway, seeing as my league isn't too strict about rotation, would Broken timespace be any good? Also, phoebe's stadium. It's like having dodrio on you're bench, but as a stadium purely for psychics.

Lumos77
8th November 2011, 1:19 AM
Does Anyone see the irony that this thread has become more of a Gothitelle discussion thread than rating this deck itself:)?

teh_original_pikachu
8th November 2011, 1:35 AM
Yupyup, but at least you can get some points made by our discussions... until now. Quick lets talk about fliptini! JK

Lumos77
8th November 2011, 1:51 AM
Yay:) Fliptini is absolutely useless in any deck I have yet made, and I have made Magneboar, Lostgar, Blastoise/Feraligatr, and this.

teh_original_pikachu
8th November 2011, 2:10 AM
hah, fliptini is catcher bait tho *O* and is fun to play

ven?
8th November 2011, 4:06 AM
fliptini is probably only going to see use in trainer lock deck's.

Manaphione123
8th November 2011, 8:45 AM
Fliptini would be a good starter for Reshiboar, I guess. Or for dual ball. Maybe.

Lumos77
8th November 2011, 10:51 PM
Does it work for trainers?

Manaphione123
8th November 2011, 11:02 PM
As far as I'm aware. I can't check right now though. Eh... If not then it sucks.

ANYWAY! Gothilock. How about the new Gardevoir? Two energy for the price of one! Pretty good. It's a toss up between that or the jelly, however.

teh_original_pikachu
8th November 2011, 11:09 PM
3 stage two lines is a lot IMO. Unless you tech 1-0-1 gardevoir.

Manaphione123
8th November 2011, 11:12 PM
That's why I said it's a toss up. Although what you've said could work. Maybe ditch a trainer or two.

teh_original_pikachu
8th November 2011, 11:51 PM
I hope we get a good starter ralts.

Lumos77
9th November 2011, 1:37 AM
Probly not, if its anything like whats in the japanese set.
And why is Jellicent good? Its is so easily killed by dragons.

teh_original_pikachu
9th November 2011, 2:00 AM
Well we still have Japans dark rush and the theme decks

Lumos77
9th November 2011, 2:04 AM
Hmm, true, nut I don't think we'll get anything new unless we get Gallade.
BTW, does anyone have any of the cards here?http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=549976
I'm scrambling to get it done before too many city tournaments go by.

teh_original_pikachu
9th November 2011, 2:26 AM
We prob will, and trade on pokebeach/gym. pokebeach>serebii in TCG. I'm lucky, my first tourney is citys for sure since I have like 5 of em.

ven?
9th November 2011, 3:08 AM
We could always ask skitty and see if we can make a trade thread the same as pokegym, which does have a better trade system, because people actually trust people there, right here on the forums so people can make something, the one we have is alot of work to trade, 2 pages open to back check and no reference's so it's almost questionable.

The new ralts does 10 or 20 dmg, nothing extra, Gardevoir is the only true tech in that evo line.

Lumos77
9th November 2011, 4:53 AM
The thing this place has over poke beach is that it is trading, for the most part. Not buying.

teh_original_pikachu
9th November 2011, 5:10 AM
ERM... pokebeach has the best bulk deals on the planet. They're trading is okay, too. I'm looking around for staples now.

Manaphione123
9th November 2011, 8:43 AM
The new Kirlia's not bad, although you shouldn't really be using it anyway.

teh_original_pikachu
13th November 2011, 1:48 AM
Hmm... new topic. What do you think about goth becoming BDIF?

Manaphione123
13th November 2011, 10:21 AM
It won't. Give me some evidence and maybe we'll have a discussion.

ven?
17th November 2011, 8:48 AM
BDIF, I think that term is in my underpants region.

There is no clear or solid top deck atm, the top of the tier is so shaky it can topple at any given moment, all we need is a good bout of cities tournament's to defecate a clear winner amongst these erroneous deck's, then another set released to make it more shaky. I wonder wtf must be going through the tcg's heads right now.

In terms of goth making it with garde, hahahaha, yeah thats all I've got.

Manaphione123
17th November 2011, 8:53 AM
Firstly, the BDIF looks to be a form of boar or ZPST.

Secondly, what's wrong with that? Replace Reuniclus with Gardevoir, chuck in a Mewtwo EX or two, put in more healing trainers. That's what I'm gonna do at least.

ven?
17th November 2011, 9:06 AM
>.>, you just nerfed gothi, there is no better tech then reuni and max potion especially in this kind of high hp dmg dealing format, for instance, dragon hits goth for 120, goth can't heal 120 fast enough w/o reuni and max pot, you'd then have to tech in shaymin, switch out to another pokemon and tko, not to mention but mewtwo is only 120 hp dmg, even with plus power doesn't stand much of a chance against dragons and evolite, considering that gothi startup is slow and dragon start up is roughly the same speed. I'd say groudon is the ex to stand beside, 80 + 40 with extra dmg, thats a minimum of 140 dmg right there, it can exceed to even 200 dmg easily within 2 turn's per turn, versus mewtwo's 2 turn only 120, mewtwo will get mowed down by groudon in an even match.

Lumos77
17th November 2011, 3:04 PM
Why do you favor Groudon so much? Its killed by beartic and Blastoise, it only works if you have at least two Kinkdras out, it just seems like an odd choice.

Manaphione123
17th November 2011, 11:43 PM
Um. Groudon works if you've got damage exceeding 20 on the defending. That's not hard to do is it? Groudon's a revenge killer.

However Mewtwo EX will not get "trampled" (see what I did there?) for one simple reason. Energy attached to both actives. With 2 energy attached to Mewtwo EX and Gardevoir in play, that's 80 straight off. Enough to 2HKO every non EX. Your opponent needs energy to fight, basic stuff. Most decent attacks need more than one energy, again basic stuff. That's at least 120. Heavy hitters are dead. Mirrors are dead. With a plus power dragons set for outrage are dead. Yanmega and Donphan could be a problem. As could most decent dark types. That's why Mewtwo should be combo'd with something else. I just don't know what that is yet. Maybe Zoroark and/or Cryogonal.

ven?
18th November 2011, 2:05 AM
kyurem, glaciate, groudon 150 dead anything. Where as mewtwo only deals 120, which is a ***** slap to the face next turn when a dragon with evolite and black belt, 180. It's just that simple, don't half tko thing's, kill them fully, groudon can do that, mewtwo cannot.

Like come on I'm teching victini's until groudon so I can auto shutdown deck's at 150 per damage per turn, I rely on basic's, what happnes if you face against acheop's and jirachi, garde's shutdown and there's noway to get that fast retaliation with mewtwo and he's slow again, not to mention but you have to rely on a stage to attack, when I just use basic's, with evolite, I'm laughing all the way to the bank. Nothing's shutting down basic's everything's shutting down stage's and thats how the format is going.

Manaphione123
18th November 2011, 9:27 AM
Mewtwo EX does 120 with its SECOND attack! It's first attack is infinite. If you've got a DCE on a dragon with eviolite, all I need is 4 Psychic energy to kill it. If it's charged for it's second attack, all I need is 3. With the right setup, that actually isn't that hard to do.

Plus, everyone's going to be terrified of Archeops. That's a fact. However, no-one in their right mind is going to build a deck that can get it out consistently. That's madness.

Lumos77
18th November 2011, 10:58 PM
Umm, am I not getting this? It says on Groudon that it does 40 more damage if the defending pokemon has only 2 damage counters.

Manaphione123
18th November 2011, 11:18 PM
I think it means 2 or more. That would be sensible. I'll check in a minute.

Lumos77
19th November 2011, 12:15 AM
Ok, not to be rude or anything, but are there any more critiques? I want to finish this before cities.

Manaphione123
19th November 2011, 12:22 AM
-2 Juniper
+2 Oak

I don't get why people use Juniper when Oak's still an option. Why discard when you can shuffle? Alternatively, add in Cheren or Bianca. Both are helpful.

ven?
19th November 2011, 5:14 AM
I read,

"If the Defending Pokémon already has 2 damage counters on it, this attack does 40 more damage."

On bulpedia for groudon, mewtwo is a good card in this deck, it's second attack is not infinite and considering that the majority of deck's use low energy high attack cost's. I look at groudon from a type advantage and damage point of view, then again everyone is different. what seemes to be a better combo, what can actually make a difference, groudon is of course be considered for kingdra, but then again I look at glaciate and wonder how much better that'll do in combo +-gothitelle's stack attack for either or reuni or garde.

Are you from japan lumos? That would be fun to play with that set if I could.

Manaphione123
19th November 2011, 11:21 AM
Gothi obviously has potential with Garde, however it will be tough to build that deck.

Lumos77
19th November 2011, 9:11 PM
I am not Japanese, though sometimes I want to go there.
Also, with Gardevoir, run a 1-0-1 or a 2-1-2 line. It wouldn't be too hard.

Manaphione123
19th November 2011, 11:13 PM
That's fair enough. I'll try that with the inevitable release of Gardevoir in February. What would you remove?

Lumos77
20th November 2011, 2:12 AM
A couple energies, like a Psycic and a DCE for a 1-0-1 line. I don't know what to do if I need to go bigger

Manaphione123
20th November 2011, 9:59 AM
That's fair enough. Maybe a psychic, 2 trainers if you wanted 1-0-1 Gardevoir and 1 Mewtwo EX.

Lumos77
23rd November 2011, 3:42 AM
Made some changes, as I was having tons of trouble setting up.

teh_original_pikachu
23rd November 2011, 5:33 AM
(guess whos back... back again...)
Your deck seems pretty fast now, try to see how it goes against magneboar in terms of lategame tho.

Lumos77
24th November 2011, 4:41 AM
minor changes made, but I still set up so slow.

Lumos77
26th November 2011, 2:01 AM
Another problem I'm having: autoloss against Durant mill decks.
I'm thinking of adding SEL and Rainbow or V-create Victini with rainbow to tech against that.

Manaphione123
26th November 2011, 8:30 AM
Umm. Durant's beaten by any decent fire type. At all.

EDIT: Sorry, just had a shower. Growlithe from HS beats Durant into the ground.

Lumos77
26th November 2011, 8:46 AM
Is it worth adding, then?

Manaphione123
26th November 2011, 8:53 AM
I would say, if Durant milling becomes popular enough in your area to be a problem, then heck yeah. Growlithe with rainbow loves munching on them yummy ants.

Lumos77
26th November 2011, 9:22 AM
Victini is a bit more reliable, with eviolite and such.

Manaphione123
26th November 2011, 1:20 PM
Which Victini? It's up to you of course whether or not to use Growlithe.

ven?
26th November 2011, 2:15 PM
The team up and deal 100 *cough*200*cough*, then reduce by 20, regardless a card like durant in my area is just an extra prize to the opponent.

Manaphione123
26th November 2011, 2:42 PM
Growlithe. 40 damage. 3 energy. 1 fire, 2 colourless. Doubled. Reduced by 10 (if using Special Metal). 70 damage. OHKO. Without needing a full bench.

Lumos77
26th November 2011, 6:14 PM
But I have so many collectors, and basics in general, that it wouldn't be too hard to use Victini. It also deals with eviolite and metal energy together

Manaphione123
26th November 2011, 8:08 PM
If that's the case, then go for it. If it fits with your deck and plan, then go for it!

ven?
28th November 2011, 7:10 AM
It also deals with eviolite and metal energy together

don't think cobalion won't trounce you, he's a slow beast of nature.

Manaphione123
28th November 2011, 8:41 AM
Yes but Cobalion takes time to setup. Catcher it at first sight.

My own decks are nearly complete both IRL and on the TCGO. Online I've thrown in a 1-1 Blissey Prime because it heals and tanks. IRL I've thrown in a 1-1 Mismagius (poltergeist) and a 1-1 Zoroark (foul play). I've never had to use them yet but it's nice to know they're there. Plus, since my league isn't too strict on rotation, I use Take Back Misdreavus, which functions as a Junk Arm (almost) and has helped me set up earlier. I'm running two Shuppet donk for, well, donking capabilities. I feel they sit nicely with the deck and don't slow it down at all. In fact, I once had both my Gothitelle and both my Reuniclus in hand in one game.

What are your opinions?

ven?
29th November 2011, 7:12 AM
catcher? by that time I'll trainer lock, thats why you need a shield for cobalion to hide behind and vileplume and gothitelle seem to be that shield. I'm not saying that trainer lock is slow, I double played vileplume per turn at city's versus snipe and caught my opponent off guard, then shutting them down with lilligant at the sametime, it's the same possible outcome either way, but it is a good playability rating. I'd rather just play vile though.

Manaphione123
29th November 2011, 8:50 AM
Hmm... Feck. I've never played against Trainer Lock myself so I don't know how to combat it effectively.