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salaswampert
4th January 2012, 12:54 AM
I could really use help perfecting this team and am really close to finishing. I am having a tournament with some people in which all legends are banned, but Salamence and Garchomp are okay, that is why I have a Salamence and not something inferior like dragonite.
http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/260.gif
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs:252Hp/196Def/60SpAtt
Nature:Relaxed
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-Surf

Swampert is my reliable lead pokemon, and Swampert counters most leads. It sets up stealth rock, and can come back later as a bulky wall. It is a great counter for any fire/electric/rock attacks, and is a reliable way to defeat Tyranitar. Earthquake gets STAB and is super effective against many OU pokemon like Infernape, or Metagross. Ice beam eliminates dragons, gliscor, and several other pokemon. Surf is a water STAB move that can provide large damage to physical walls. Swampert's resistance to fire benefits both Breloom and Metagross who can draw in fire attacks.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/373.gif
Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252Atk/4Spatt/252Spe
Nature: Hasty
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
Although Uber Salamence is allowed in the tournament. Leftovers provide Salamence extra health and allows it to sweep longer. The Nature and EVs are for maximum damage. Dragon claw is a great physical STAB move, and is resisted only by steel types. Earthquake is one of the best moves, and works well against many OU pokemon. Salamence has a great resistance to grass types, and can switch in from Swampert. Fire Blast murders both grass types who can kill Swampert and Skarmory who would wall Salamence. Salamence's ground immunity works well with Metagross's weakness. Hasty gives it more bulk with intimidate.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/376.gif
Metagross @ leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 60Hp/252Atk/196spe
Nature:Jolly
-Agility
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
Metagross is a very defensive pokemon, and can easily set up an agility. This doubles his speed, and from there sweep. Meteor Mash is a great stab move, that can raise your attack, and provide lots of damage. Thunder Punch can kill Gyrados who may try to set up on Swampert. Earthquake is obvious. Metagross can take an Ice Beam aimed at Salamence or Breloom easily, and sweep from there. It can also take grass attacks aimed at swampert, or flying attacks aimed at Breloom.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/094.gif
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Evs: 252 Spatt/252 Spe/4 Hp
Nature:Timid
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Focus Blast
-Hp Ice
Pure special sweeper, and provides levitate support. Life orb increases damage, and Timid Nature gives Gengar a ridiculous 350 speed. All of its moves provide great coverage, and its immunity to fighting/ground attacks allows it to switch in easily.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/286.gif
Breloom @ Poison Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Evs: 252Atk/252spe/4HP
Nature: Jolly
-Spore
-Substitute
-Seed Bomb
-Focus Punch
Breloom is a GOD. This is my last resort and Spore cripples enemy pokemon. Seed Bomb kills both ground and water pokemon. Focus Punch deals huge damage, and is super effective to several types. Substitute provides a wall that can allow it to spore a pokemon if it wakes up, and from fast pokemon who switch in. Its typing provides great team support, but its easy to figure out, and there is no reason to list them all out.

http://pldh.net/media/pokemon/gen5/blackwhite_animated_front/197.gif
Umbreon @ leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252HP/92Sdef/164spd
Nature:Careful
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Taunt
-Payback
Umbreon provides the team utilities like wish. Payback prevents it from being taunt bait, and taunt is rather self explanatory.

This team is undefeated 11-0 but I would like some feedback especially on smeargle. So far this team has done very well and actually works better than it sounds in writing. I can switch any pokemon out for another pokemon, but only if they absolutely have to. I have all of these pokemon (excluding Smeargle) with Max IV's, but Gengar has 30 in Speed for HP Ice. This is not an OU battle, but it is competitive and Salamence is allowed, and there are no sleep restrictions. Sorry about the gen. 5 pictures, but they looked cool, but this is a Gen. 4 team. Thanks to any help:D

Aura Sensei™
4th January 2012, 11:42 PM
Hey salaswampert!Good team,but you could try Hypnosis>Hidden Power Ice for status.

salaswampert
6th January 2012, 2:53 AM
Hey salaswampert!Good team,but you could try Hypnosis>Hidden Power Ice for status.
I think HP Ice is better as Breloom provides status and hypnosis has bad accuracy that if it misses equals dead gengar. HP Ice also gives it better coverage, but that is not a bad idea:D.
I also will give smeargle spikes because it prevents Breloom from using spore. Noticed it during a test battle and almost lost because of it.

mattsteele
6th January 2012, 2:57 AM
okay seriously i need help with a lucky egg.. anyone got a spare?..

mattsteele
6th January 2012, 3:01 AM
message me if so /:

salaswampert
6th January 2012, 3:45 AM
Umm ... What???
Does that mean my team is good and you presume I would have lucky eggs to train them, or do you just need a lucky egg? :/ ...

DragonXmicro
6th January 2012, 4:01 AM
No, he just randomly posted. Not cool.
For smeargle, rocks are better than spikes. Also, I would (ab)use the stategy known as SubPass, or even SmashPass.

salaswampert
6th January 2012, 11:14 PM
No, he just randomly posted. Not cool.
For smeargle, rocks are better than spikes. Also, I would (ab)use the stategy known as SubPass, or even SmashPass.

But Swampert has stealth rock, and it would be waste of a moveslot then.

McDanger
6th January 2012, 11:20 PM
No, he just randomly posted. Not cool.
For smeargle, rocks are better than spikes. Also, I would (ab)use the stategy known as SubPass, or even SmashPass.

smashpass doesnt exsist in 4th gen
team looks good, i would suggest blissey over smeargle, you loss rapid spin and spike, but still have wish and get heal bell, plus blissey can use stealth rocks

salaswampert
7th January 2012, 4:54 PM
Blissey sounds good, but what moves and evs should I give it?
Edit: Can't get wish Blissey as it was a event and would be nearly impossible to find, and even if I found one odds are the ivs suck:(

Aura Sensei™
8th January 2012, 5:08 PM
I'll help with the moves:

Blissey Bold Nature
~Softboiled(Since you can't get Wish)
~Aromatherapy
~Toxic
~Seismic Toss

Bigheaded
10th January 2012, 1:57 PM
I'll help with the moves:

Blissey Bold Nature
~Softboiled(Since you can't get Wish)
~Aromatherapy
~Toxic
~Seismic Toss

Well this solves neither the problem where he wants wish to heal up stuff (i.e swampert) or the rapid spin support.

For Wish support have you considerred eevee evolutions?
Umbreon is Fairly bulky so will pass on wish pretty easily, can scare off the opposing pokemon with yawn. Can also baton pass curse which could be interesting. Also has access to heal bell (Hg/SS move tutor so should be compatible with wish?).
~ Baton Pass/???
~ Mean Look/Curse/Heal Bell
~ Wish
~ Taunt / Yawn / Protect / Payback
Might want to be careful of taunt users though, or to put in payback.
If you did take heal bell, it means you could consider taking a spinner instead of breloom also. So you would then have heal bell/wish/rapid spin support. This does mean you lose spore though(yawn is there though with possibility of mean look)
Vaporeon is also there as a bulky wish user who could baton pass acid armor also.




For rapid spin support, the only other thing i can think of is replacing gengar with a starmie and using starmie as both offense + spin support.
Choose whether you want recover or ice beam. Thunder Wave is there as you have only one status move, so could be useful.
~ Hydro Pump / Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Rapid spin
~ Recover / Ice Beam / Thunder Wave
This will mean your team is slightly weaker to grass though as you have not a lot of fire/ice type moves on fast pokemon (excluding possibly on this moveset).

One last possibility is replacing the gengar with Espeon as your wish supporter and using Espeon as your special attacker. Or even smeargle and use dual screens + wish on espeon (as you are not using screens and any fighting types with brick break will avoid espeon)


I have next to no competitive experience so this may or may not be helpful ;)
Looks ultra sold team though but i agree with you, smeargle is rarely a good choice due to awful base stats and should be avoided unless no other pokemon are available.
I hope my ideas inspire you even if you don't take them as they are.

One or two other notes:
You have no screens, obviously these arn't needed but they can proove exceedingly useful. Dual screens when a team (just like yours for example!) doesn't have brick break or you kill the brick break user is incredible.
You also are not using roar, so that if something successfully sets up on you, you are fully unable to deal with it unless you are able to KO it. A scizor (bad example seeing you decided to put fire blast on your salamance, probably for the main reason of countering scizor's) would resist/neutral everything except fireblast and could quite easily setup on some of your pokemon.
You have no weather changers, so if someone brings in a sandstorm team, he will be able to keep sandstorm up throughout without a worry. Just shoving a weather condition on someone such as breloom could really throw a spanner in a weather teams works. If you decide to use starmie as a spinner, then with breloom with rain dance and starmie with surf+thunder it could cause some serious havoc.
Against stall you have no Taunt, so several pokemon could possibly wall you fairly effectively.

Not every team should have all of those for sure, but they are things surely you need to keep in mind.

Aura Sensei™
10th January 2012, 10:33 PM
Yeah,Umbreon is a good choice to use Wish,even though you need to breed for it.

salaswampert
11th January 2012, 11:40 PM
I like the idea of umbreon, so would this set work?
Umbreon@leftovers(for bulk)
Careful
Synchronize
252Hp/4Def/252SpDef evs
Wish
Baton Pass
Mean Look
Heal bell/Taunt/Curse
Bulky Special Wall with 257 def is the teams wall and wish support. Umbreon can baton pass mean look to a pokemon like Salamence who can set up from there. Heal Bell is a good option, but taunt is highly useful, and curse could be baton passed to team mates like Swampert, who would then rip teams to shreds with earthquake and ridiculous Defenses.
Could really use feedback as this is untested and I can't decide on the 4th move.

Bigheaded
12th January 2012, 12:59 PM
About Umbreon with batonpass meanlook:
Against noobs: Basically, 90% of the time you will be able to win the game if you pull it off.
Against Decent players: They will send in something such as garchomp then use swords dance on your umbreon after you mean look baton pass, who the heck would you bring in? The other thing they will do, is bring in a pokemon with roar. so you mean look baton pass blah de blah, whilst they bring in skarmony on the mean look, setup spikes then just whirlwind you away.

Decent players know that mean look is what sells umbreon, so if you use it, be prepared to be counterred, OR you can use him as support without those skills which is unexpected and "can" be effective.
I am using heal bell and it is INCREDIBLY useful. payback is "ok" i've KO'd one pokemon with it after ~10 uses of this team. Wish is also exceedingly helpful. Rain dance fits in with my build. it may be worth considering putting in a weather effect in your team, just in case you get something such as floatzel come up after bronzong uses rain dance.
So here was my use of him: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=557316
This is fairly old as i've replaced all sorts of pokemon in that team, but umbreon is still being used as he's exceedingly useful.

One last note on the umbreon:
You will "lack" the rapid spin if you add him. so i would 100%! recommend taunt? why? stall. Most stall teams will be placing entry hazards like no mans business and trying to status the entire of your team. Using umbreon's mean look on a pokemon without roar can literally mean victory. Sadly the smart ones will "usually" bring in something who can roar against your umbreon. If they don't though (lets say they leave blissey in using toxic, hoping you switch to avoid toxic damage to then be hit by toxic again), mean look will keep them in, they then think "oh crap lets start using seismic toss" so taunt them anyway, this forces them to use an attack (if they haven't roar'd you after the mean look this is PERFECT! as roar has negative priority and will not work after you taunt) and not TWave or something annoying, you then batonpass to salamance and there you go, the stall is going to be munched!


Rapid spin
After playing a bit competitively.
The obvious solution for rapid spin is replacing swampert with blastoise. But considering your name, i don't think this is the solution you want :P
It also loses your SR. Only thing i can suggest for that would be forretress, who can SR + rapid spin. But then your team starts losing it's focus as you lose immunity to lightning and gain one to poison (can be useful for toxic spammers). Still, it's probably difficult to simply change your team.

I do check here often so i will usually reply quickly if you have any more thoughts :)

So 2 movesets for umbreon.
1: Mean look:
Wish (this is the only thing i would change if i HAD to change something)
Baton Pass
Mean Look
Taunt

2. Support:
Wish
Toxic
Heal bell
Payback/taunt/protect (payback: can be good to finish something off, taunt: useful against stallers, protect: works exceptionally well with heal + toxic)
I'll give the team a whirl (i'll replace salamance with dragonite as i play OU) and see how the team does. I will quite possibly also use blastoise over swampert, as tbh, i don't REALLY think this team needs an entry hazard, useful for gengar/metagross to get a few more OHKO's but little else and will often be spinned away anyway).

also: is jirachi banned for this tourny? as it is a "legend". My guess is that it is. For they're exceedingly common leads and really annoying.

salaswampert
12th January 2012, 11:30 PM
Yes Jirachi is banned, and so are celebi and shaymin, which gives Swampert two less pokemon that would abuse his 4X grass weakness. Also I like the support Umbreon, but I think it would be better to replace toxic, otherwise breloom becomes much less useful. Heal Bell would be great and I really nead wish. The last two could be taunt and payback. Synchonize also gives Umbreon the ability to hit pokemon with their own status and then heal bell himself. And I find surprise a very, very effective strategy and everyone would expect a mean look baton pass. I am not very worried about stealth rock though as half of my pokemon would resist it, and only one would be hurt by it. Salamence has leftovers though to help with the stealth rock damage.
Thanks a-lot for the help, and if I should change the team then I am open to your ideas.