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Serebii
26th May 2005, 1:42 PM
http://www.serebii.net/anime/NextOn/407.jpgChoose It Or Lose It

Ash's battle with Morrison continues on...but Morrison seems apathetic to the battle and not wanting to battle Ash properly, he starts losing. Ash manages to convince him to battle properly and so the fierce battle properly begins. Who will win? Ash or Morrison?

Visit The Episode Guide (http://www.serebii.net/anime/epiguide/houen/407.shtml)

Discuss

Gaiash
26th May 2005, 5:04 PM
*awaits people who know what happens to dazzle us with knolage*


Edit: Whoa, first post

Torkoal Stu
26th May 2005, 5:23 PM
Oh the speculation thread was already closed, I wanted to talk about the possable Torkoal time. But from what I know is that the whole battle was squweesed into the one epsiode. Which is bad but I only know is that Corphish had all its time at the begening of this episode.

Thats all I know.

Waterlight
26th May 2005, 5:24 PM
So Ash beats Masamune. I'm not particularly surprised, and I'm betting he'll lose to Tetsuya which would continue this 'pattern' of getting to top 16, then top 8 I think it was..

Factory Head Noland
26th May 2005, 5:33 PM
The episode doesn't air until 7:30pm so why's this thread open and the speculation one closed? Should be the other way around!
I hope the battle was really exciting with "Advanced Adventure" in it (that just MAKES an episode).
We don't actually know if Ash will battle Tetsuya, there is no proof of it it's all just speculation...

Waterlight
26th May 2005, 5:37 PM
Click on the "Episode Guide" Link, and it says clearly at the side that Ash beats Masamune and discovers he will battle Tetsuya. :/

I'm not even sure when it airs, or even if you are correct. Though the trailer on TVTokyo is still the same..

Pokeballs
26th May 2005, 5:38 PM
From what i can gather Ash won

Sounded like Steelix took down 2 Pokes (not sure on this one)
Swellow VS Gligar (I had a feeling they'd have this matchup, and a lot of others :p)
Metang VS Glalie (edit: oops Meteo Mash was used)

I don't really know anymore specifics >< but Zak posted Tetsuya's last 2 pokemon to be Hariyama and Shiftry

IMPERIAL DRAGON
26th May 2005, 5:41 PM
You mean Meteor Mash?

~Bayleef~, there's probably a huge time difference between here and in Japan and I think they're ahead of us, so it must have already aired other wise we wouldn't have the basic details yet.

Zak
26th May 2005, 7:23 PM
Once again, doesn't look like Torkoal does much... *groan* According to several message boards, this is how the battle went (I haven't seen the episode yet, but it's pretty clear):

Ash left off having Corphish out, while Masamune lost Girafarig quickly. Masamune chose Growlithe for his second...
...And lost quickly to Corphish again. Next, he uses Swampert, and as Corphish and Swampert use Crabhammer and Focus Punch, they both knock each other out and faint. There is then an interval because Masamune lost 3 Pokemon.
Steelix VS Pikachu. Both have Iron Tail, but Steelix's is faster and the win goes to him. Torkoal's turn to face a Steelix for a second time... but it's Flamethrower and Overheat are no match for Steelix's Dig and Dragonbreath, so it's taken out pretty quickly again.
Grovyle, however, avoids Dragonbreath and defeats Steelix with Leaf Blade.
Gligar's turn, who then quickly defeats Grovyle with Guillotine.
Swellow VS Gligar. Again, a collision of attacks causes them to hit each other and both faint, thus they are down to their last Pokemon (Aerial Ace and Metal Claw).
Glalie VS Metang... I couldn't exactly understand what went on here, but yes, Meteor Mash was introed. But anyway the fact remains that Glalie won somehow.

The Sceptile shown in the preview, as I recall one person correctly speculating, is to show how Tetsuya is doing meanwhile. But, it's decided, that Ash will be battle Tetsuya next round, and yes he IS in the top 8 and the battle IS for the top 4, so if Ash loses he'll be top 8 again.

Anyway, seems like Ash sees Tetsuya training with Meowth at night and they have their little "talk" as usual... bleh... but anyway, Ash's battle with Tetsuya does actually start in this episode, and he makes a pretty surprising choice for a first Pokemon... Sceptile. Ash uses Glalie. They start fighting for a while, and the episode ends in the middle of a fierce battle...

I think that might be what the next title's referring to. But... given the placement of the round, it's hard to really say who will win. Given that it's for the top four, Ash does have a chance with the writers... But to be honest, it's good because now we won't really care who he loses to or if he loses, assuming he beats Tetsuya. Plus, unless he withdraws it, not sure if we'd have to worry about Sceptile being a threat...

Almighty Zard
26th May 2005, 7:32 PM
i serously would like to know what the writers are smoking when they write these battles
i mean come on Torkoal got shafted again,Grovyle beating a Steelix, and Glalie has suddenly become one of the Big guns for ash's team, what's going on!!!????

JazzJazz
26th May 2005, 7:33 PM
Awesome to see that pikachu wasn't Ash's final trump card for once... very happy that glalie ended up being the one who claimed the victory for Ash.

CyberCubed
26th May 2005, 7:37 PM
Swampert gets knocked out by Corphish? Meh. I wanted to see Swampert do some good battling, not this quick faint crap.

Sounds like the battle went pretty fast, I hope it isn't really that rushed. Sounds like a one-hit KO fest mainly, with about 20 seconds per battle. Lame.

So it's Ash Vs. Tetsuya next then eh? Considering the upcoming episode titles, seems Ash loses to him as expected. *yawn*

Gravy
26th May 2005, 7:43 PM
Torkoal is finished off quickly again. Its come to a point where I'm not even surprised anymore. If Torkoal gets any decent battling for the remainder of time its going to have on Ash's team, I'm going to be really shocked.
I like Glalie and Grovyle, I really do. But I fail to understand why the writers are feeling that its so nessicary to have them take so much spot-light in this league, leaving the likes of Torkoal to suffer. Because really, thats just crap.

And judging by the summary of the battle and how each pokémon seemed to be taken out really quickly or lost in a draw, it sounds incredibly weak at best. I honestly can't see any Houen matches being more enjoyable than the round against Kaeda. One-hit KO battles suck sh*t.

Negative yes, but I like it too~

CyberCubed
26th May 2005, 7:48 PM
I think it's safe to say that Torkoal is the weakest pokemon on Ash's Hoenn team, either that or the writers have some kind of vendetta against it. No wonder why Torkoal will be sent back to Oaks in a few episodes from now.

V Faction
26th May 2005, 8:12 PM
Man, does that sound ever shitty. Swampert gets knocked out by Corphish? Steelix remains in the battle longer than one round? Guillotine is used on Grovyle? Glalie beats Metang? My god... I had some hope that this battle would offer a little fun. From Zak's descrip. though... sounds like one big impossible fest. I'm guessing I may enjoy it more if I watch the Episode, but damn I'm not having high hopes.

And LOL at Hariyama with Tetsuya. One person managed to predict that correctly.

Darn that Tetsuya! He can't get any original Pokemon of his own. Shiftry counts a little, if you despise Brendan.

Black Marauder
26th May 2005, 9:40 PM
man this episode really sucks IMO.... c'mon Swampert atleast could've lasted more long and whats up the the Pokemon fainting each other at the same time?...........................*sigh*

jolteonjak
26th May 2005, 9:58 PM
Yah...a Pokemon like Swampert getting knocked out along with Corphish. It took out half of Masamune's team! That's on fire!

ChaosMage
26th May 2005, 10:21 PM
Go, Corphish! But Ash's choices suck and so did Masemune's! Pikachu VS Steelix? Growlithe against Corphish? And Glalie taking all the glory while Torkoal loses miserably again! BIASED!!! If only they'd not evolved Snorunt- Glalie's the new Charizard (only more obedient) He can do anything!!!

CyberCubed
26th May 2005, 10:36 PM
Well what did you guys expect?

The writers rushed a 6 on 6 battle into a single episode, of course it's going to be pretty crappy.

If the Tetsuya match is finished all in one episode as well, I fear for that one too.

Heracross
26th May 2005, 10:59 PM
Ok, I liked Onigohri at first, but I'm getting sick of the overgrown hailstone. :P Satoshi caught the thing not even 20 episodes ago, and ever since it evolved it's been this unstoppable powerhouse? What the hell?

I can understand winning a battle or two because of beginner's luck - like Crab for instance - and I was OK with him winning despite an obvious type disadvantage (Heracross did it too after all ^_^), but now he delivers the final blow to defeat Masamune? And he was doing just fine in the Keade battle - the only reason he got knocked out was because of destiny bond. It's just rediculous for a pokémon captured so recently and with virtually no battling experience before the league to be doing so good. Not only that, but it's rather unfair to Satoshi's other pokémon who worked really hard all through the Houen region.

Give Kootasu more screentime, dammit! *kicks writers*

Flamez
26th May 2005, 11:28 PM
whats up people,
Man this is crazy! lol . Everybody including me was going for the whole Grovyle vs. Swampert match and Metang vs. Pikachu but none of that happened. lol .

You know everyone is talking about how Torkoal is not getting any spotlight and u no what i completely agree with u guys. But i was thinking that since that match between Ash and Tetsuya will be for the top 4 and if ash loses hes in the top 8 again! maybe he will beat tetsuya u never know. And maybe Torkoal will get some spotlight in that match up. I think Pikachu also hasn't gotten anything in the league so far. The writers are probably saving them for tetsuya. o well thats just my opinion.

But next thing I really want to see a Grovyle vs. Shiftry match both can have some major speed and besides treeko once lost to a shiftry maybe its time for Revenge. lol.
And how about a Hariyama vs. Swellow/Corphish match. Speaking of Corphish hes on fire. He must have the most wins right now in the league for Ash.

Almighty Zard
26th May 2005, 11:33 PM
Ok, I liked Onigohri at first, but I'm getting sick of the overgrown hailstone. :P Satoshi caught the thing not even 20 episodes ago, and ever since it evolved it's been this unstoppable powerhouse? What the hell?

I can understand winning a battle or two because of beginner's luck - like Crab for instance - and I was OK with him winning despite an obvious type disadvantage (Heracross did it too after all ^_^), but now he delivers the final blow to defeat Masamune? And he was doing just fine in the Keade battle - the only reason he got knocked out was because of destiny bond. It's just rediculous for a pokémon captured so recently and with virtually no battling experience before the league to be doing so good. Not only that, but it's rather unfair to Satoshi's other pokémon who worked really hard through all through the Houen region.

Give Kootasu more screentime, dammit! *kicks writers*

i agree, at first i thought it evolution was good cause it needed the extra power, but this is getting out of hand, that thing hasn't had a single direct loss yet, while poor Torkoal who has been on the team longer has been getting his rear handed to him constantly, and that is plain not right. I mean if Torkoal beats anyone of Tetsuya's pokemon, would it really be enough retribution, i don't think so.

Pokeballs
26th May 2005, 11:38 PM
There is something very wrong w/ the writers >< Glalie has two final victories in the same league? And Torkoal got shafted again, jeez even Pikachu is getting whipped :/ It's just wrong ><

Almighty Zard
26th May 2005, 11:42 PM
There is something very wrong w/ the writers >< Glalie has two final victories in the same league? And Torkoal got shafted again, jeez even Pikachu is getting whipped :/ It's just wrong ><

Like i said the writers are smoking something, cause these battles are wrong, but then again, it's high time that Pikachu has been forced to step down from the spotlight, with all the gym battle action he got it's nice to see others take up his screentime.

CyberCubed
26th May 2005, 11:48 PM
I find it amusing that Grovyle, Ash's trump card and one of his strongest pokemon throughout Hoenn, is getting a lot of defeats in this league.

Never mind Torkoal getting shafted in the league (since he was getting shafted throughout the entire region, not just the league), but Grovyle is on a losing streak lately.

On another note, Corphish and Swellow have turned out to be very good reliable pokemon this league.

And now that the beginning of the Tetsuya match has Glalie Vs Sceptile, I guess we won't get a Grovyle Vs. Sceptile match either.

Glalie has stolen Grovyle's thunder. :o

Lupin
27th May 2005, 12:00 AM
So torkoal doesn't get any spotlight again. That is so unfair. If they could have been bothered enough to spread this match into two seperate episodes, it could have been a great battle.

Waveblaster
27th May 2005, 12:40 AM
I'm so happy that Ash won this round and Corphish was the only pokemon he used in the first half!

.Bambi.
27th May 2005, 1:46 AM
And now that the beginning of the Tetsuya match has Glalie Vs Sceptile, I guess we won't get a Grovyle Vs. Sceptile match either.

Glalie has stolen Grovyle's thunder. :o
I highly doubt that Glalie will take Sceptile down.
I mean, c'mon, Sceptile is Tetsuya's Trump Card! It can't just go down so quickly. As well as with all these wins, I think Glalie is due for a whooping. If not, then Glalie will have technically not taken a loss this League [as he would have done fine if not for Destiny Bond].

I am happy that Glalie is doing so well this league, but this "Comeback Kid" thing has been taken too far. At least the writers toned it down with Kingler to make it somewhat realistic.



Okay. This battle is totally messed up. What the hell is wrong with Torkoal? It cant even take down a bloody Steelix? I was really hoping that Torkoal would claim the Metang victory and win the battle to get some redemption but, instead it loses with no wins as usual e_e

Corphish took out Swampert with a simple Crabhammer? Man, Swampert has gotten more shaft then Ash's Torkoal in the Whirl Cup. Wow...Corphish really is doing well in this League. Brava...but even I wanted to see a big *** Grovyle/Swampert showdown. *disappointment*

I dont really care that Grovyle or Pikachu fainted. At least Grovyle got ONE win :(


I really did want to see the Battle Frontier, but seeing what damage it has caused the League by making time for it before the D/P Region, I TAKE IT BACK!!! *cries*

Pokemon Fan
27th May 2005, 2:28 AM
Ok, I liked Onigohri at first, but I'm getting sick of the overgrown hailstone. :P Satoshi caught the thing not even 20 episodes ago, and ever since it evolved it's been this unstoppable powerhouse? What the hell?

I can understand winning a battle or two because of beginner's luck - like Crab for instance - and I was OK with him winning despite an obvious type disadvantage (Heracross did it too after all ^_^), but now he delivers the final blow to defeat Masamune? And he was doing just fine in the Keade battle - the only reason he got knocked out was because of destiny bond. It's just rediculous for a pokémon captured so recently and with virtually no battling experience before the league to be doing so good. Not only that, but it's rather unfair to Satoshi's other pokémon who worked really hard all through the Houen region.
How can you say it has so little battling experience? Sure as a Snorunt it had trouble with Ice Beam but otherwise it was a skilled fighter who went toe-to-toe with Pikachu when it was first captured. We have no real idea of how much experience Snorunt had.

As for Torkoal, it has been getting brushed off a lot. I personally have no problem with it tying with Tropius, since Tropius in the game is one of the most durable Grass types (provided it isn't up against Ice moves), but it is a bit sad to see it lose to a Steelix without taking down any other Pokemon.

I think the writers wanted to show Masumune was good by having him take out a Pokemon using one of his with a type weakness, that seems to be a common theme, to show a trainer is good have them win when the types are against them. And for some reason Torkoal was chosen to demonstrate that. At least being part Ground Steelix also had an advantage, the battles hardly as impossible as you guys are making it out to be. Remember Torkoal's flames mean nothing if it can't hit Steelix with them.


I find it amusing that Grovyle, Ash's trump card and one of his strongest pokemon throughout Hoenn, is getting a lot of defeats in this league.

Never mind Torkoal getting shafted in the league (since he was getting shafted throughout the entire region, not just the league), but Grovyle is on a losing streak lately.
How can you say that? Grovyle was one of the main stars in the Kaede battle, and has beaten two other opponents in the league before losing. Hardly what I'd call a losing streak, really it has been handled quite well.

Poor Pikachu... I mean really, except for the match against Hitmonlee its been getting some bad luck going up against a Dugtrio and Steelix.

Corphish takes out half the team... well it is certainly believable given how much battle experience it's gotten lately, AND that Masumune wasn't exactly fighting well.

Still, from the sound of things the Kaede battle is still my favorite for this league so far.

Almighty Zard
27th May 2005, 2:39 AM
I highly doubt that Glalie will take Sceptile down.
I mean, c'mon, Sceptile is Tetsuya's Trump Card! It can't just go down so quickly. As well as with all these wins, I think Glalie is due for a whooping. If not, then Glalie will have technically not taken a loss this League [as he would have done fine if not for Destiny Bond].

I am happy that Glalie is doing so well this league, but this "Comeback Kid" thing has been taken too far. At least the writers toned it down with Kingler to make it somewhat realistic.



Okay. This battle is totally messed up. What the hell is wrong with Torkoal? It cant even take down a bloody Steelix? I was really hoping that Torkoal would claim the Metang victory and win the battle to get some redemption but, instead it loses with no wins as usual e_e

Corphish took out Swampert with a simple Crabhammer? Man, Swampert has gotten more shaft then Ash's Torkoal in the Whirl Cup. Wow...Corphish really is doing well in this League. Brava...but even I wanted to see a big *** Grovyle/Swampert showdown. *disappointment*

Have we forgotten about Metagross already, which i think is Tetsuya's trump card pokemon, and i hope Glalie does knock it out so we don't have a Grovyle/Secptile showdown, besides what's to stop it, if it beat a Charizard, and a Metang, it very well could deep freeze Sceptile in it's tracks, and if Sceptile was Tetsuya's trump card pokemon why would he use it off the bat.

The way things are shaping up i wonder why the writers gave Torkoal to Ash at all, it hasn't done much since he caught it, and i think that it deserved better.

think of it this way, you can't blame Swampert for going down so quickly, that's Masamunes fault due to the fact he didn't concentrate.

Heracross
27th May 2005, 2:46 AM
How can you say it has so little battling experience? Sure as a Snorunt it had trouble with Ice Beam but otherwise it was a skilled fighter who went toe-to-toe with Pikachu when it was first captured. We have no real idea of how much experience Snorunt had.
True, but what I was saying is that Satoshi never actually used it except to blast of the Rocket-dan at the grand festival. It may well have been in battles before in the wild, but judging from its inability to use ice beam correctly it was still at a rather low level of experience, and it evolving was just sort of a fluke.

Compared with all of Satoshi's other pokémon I think we could agree that it has had far less experience as far as competitive battles go, so having it win all the time while his more experienced fighters get KO'ed is just wrong. o_o

V Faction
27th May 2005, 2:47 AM
Still, from the sound of things the Kaede battle is still my favorite for this league so far.
And with good reason.

1. It's been the longest battle we've seen take place in the Hoenn League. Masamune's and Tetsuya's fights start with a single brawl then lead into a new episode, while Kaeda gaves us 3 Pokemon shown from the start. And then it lead into a (nearly) whole episode.

2. Kaeda had some real world style battling impressed onto her. C'mon, switching for type advantages, Destiny Bond, annoyance tactics. She gave us a good fight that was believable.

3. Not so much the fight itself, but the dissmal competition from the other fights. Hyuuga's was good, but not great. Tomono's short-changed Torkoal again. Masamune's double battle was thrilling at least, but that was only because of Gligar. And Masamune vs. Ash was disappointing. We didn't even get to see one of Ash's near the beginning. So, there isn't that much to compete with.

Zak
27th May 2005, 5:13 AM
Guys... I don't think anyone's seen the episode yet. The stuff I saw posted wasn't exactly a summary of the whole battle, it was from a Japanese message board and could have been just a list of how each one won or lost throughout this battle. Seriously, if ONLY the stuff I mentioned in my post happened, and nothing else, the battle would only last about 10 minutes, not even 15. And a whole 10-15 minutes of just talking to Tetsuya and pre-battle stuff just seems unrealistic, considering how little we see of the start of the fight.

I'd wait for someone who's seen the episode to post before making judgements just yet.

watchermark
27th May 2005, 9:05 AM
Sadly, it seems Ash will always have a Pokemon that gets the shaft in each league. In Kanto, it was Pidgeotto, in Johto it was Phanpy and now in Hoenn it's Torkoal's turn, which is a shame because I really like that Pokemon, even though it's only had three wins since Ash caught it (Steelix, Scizor, Lombre).

Hopefully next week we'll get Torkoal vs. Metagross and the writers will let the turtle get some glory back!

Gaiash
27th May 2005, 10:31 AM
Torkoal got to shine in the battle with Tropius, yes it had a draw but Ashs Bulbasaur had a draw with Meganium, they shined because they were a match for such strong Pokemon its just Corphish shined more in that episode

IMPERIAL DRAGON
27th May 2005, 10:42 AM
Don't kill me for saying this but I think that the anime has plans for Torkoal. Think about all the pokemon Ash has had that don't evolve, like Heracross, Lapras and Snorlax (well technically) what do they all have in common? They're all power houses, while Torkoal is on the same level as those weak pokemon that don't evolve who get boxed in the games and only caught for the sake of the 'dex. Dare I say this... one word, they're gonna pull a... Manyula... me thinks anyway.

Although this episode sounds interesting, if I'm honest I'm a little dissapointed at some of the match ups... like Gligar defeated Grovyle and Corphish hammering Swampert.

Gravy
27th May 2005, 11:54 AM
Torkoal got to shine in the battle with Tropius, yes it had a draw but Ashs Bulbasaur had a draw with Meganium, they shined because they were a match for such strong Pokemon its just Corphish shined more in that episode
The difference is, Bulbasuar had 2 freakin' series of the animé to battle, was used frequently and usually came out on top. Torkoal taking a draw against Tropius is hardly any sort of redemption for all the losses and lack of any decent battles. If Torkoal were to ever 'shine', it would be in a match were it puts up a long, hard fight and comes out on top. Not a tie, not a loss, but a win~


...while Torkoal is on the same level as those weak pokemon that don't evolve who get boxed in the games and only caught for the sake of the 'dex. Dare I say this... one word, they're gonna pull a... Manyula... me thinks anyway.
Forgive my total ignorance for in-game stats but...is Torkoal really so weak that it warrants an evolution? From using it in my game and beating a few E4 pokemon with it, I'd always assumed it made for a pretty good tank :/

IMPERIAL DRAGON
27th May 2005, 12:07 PM
Well put it this way... you can use a Pichu to take down a Dragonite in the games so pretty much any pokemon can be used in battle but the point is Torkoal isn't on the same level of power as the likes of Heracross. Stats wise, Sneasel has a total base stat amount of 430 and that's now got an evolution, while Torkoal has only 470 combined base stats so it's not that powerful so an evolution is possible. Look at Golbat, it's got 455 combined base stats which isn't much less than Torkoal so it is kinda possible. All I'm saying is that Torkoal is unique because all of Ash's other pokemon that don't evolve are much more powerful in general.

phoenix12
27th May 2005, 12:20 PM
Torkoal beat Slakoth win one hit during the Petalburg Gym Battle...not that I think he hasn't gotten screwed, just to mention that there is something to add to the above list of wins..and yes, I realize this was after Slakoth spent a lot of time battling with Pikachu, but still, Torkoal finished the job properly ;324;

Gaiash
27th May 2005, 2:19 PM
The difference is, Bulbasuar had 2 freakin' series of the animé to battle, was used frequently and usually came out on top. Torkoal taking a draw against Tropius is hardly any sort of redemption for all the losses and lack of any decent battles. If Torkoal were to ever 'shine', it would be in a match were it puts up a long, hard fight and comes out on top. Not a tie, not a loss, but a win
3 accully, Bulbasaur was the 2nd longest Pokemon to be in Ashs team. Also Torkoals had many appearences, hes not battled in all of them in fact most Torkoal appearences he was just there. It shined in this episode because it had a draw with a powerful Pokemon like Bulbasaur with Meganium or even Grovyles win against Slaking.

frednmethod
27th May 2005, 3:19 PM
Guys, calm down okay?

Have you guys actually seen the episode? I haven't, that's why I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet. And about Torkoal being shafted: Too bad for Torkoal and its lovers (sorry about that Torkoal Stu), but at least ONE pokemon has to perform badly in the league. It would be incredibly boring and unreal if every pokemon got equal number of wins and losses. If some pokemon get more wins, that means less wins for some other pokemon, it's pretty inevitable. In Kanto it was Pidgeotto, in Johto it was Phanpy/Totodile/Noctowl etc. In Hoenn it was bound to be either Corphish or Torkoal. Turns out that Corphish is Ash's powerhouse (score-wise: 4 wins 1 draw 1 loss), and Pikachu got shafted (YAY!) as well as Torkoal.

Grovyle, Corphish and Swellow getting an ample amount of spotlight is good. Grovyle isn't the second Charizard like some people suspected, and Swellow has broken the old tradition that bird pokemon should perform horribly in the league.

Corphish.... Corphish.... so people, do you still think that Corphish should evolve into Crawdaunt because it's not strong enough?

I think I'm the only one in the forums that is pretty satisfied with the results.

Don't worry, Torkoal probably will get some decent spotlight against Tetsuya. I'm sure of it.

Torkoal Stu
27th May 2005, 4:37 PM
:@ :@ :@ :@ :@ Damm.....but well said guys n the side of defending Torkoal.

But Torkoal has done well in like three battles I can name off my head. Scizor in the drake epsiode, Slakoth in the firth battle and against Tropius. So i'm hoping for some spotlight in the battle against Tetsuya.

But frednmethod your right about one having to be the weakest and constant hints were goving though out hoenn due to it only having one gym battle.

But I don't see the point of Ash having one anymore, however they have given MAJOR possiblities for Torkoal such as

Metang
Shiftry
Venomoth
Skarmory(If Winnona had used it)
Scizor(Last battle against the girl)

And so on. I think they hate Torkoal.

Brinstar
27th May 2005, 5:34 PM
Dare I say this... one word, they're gonna pull a... Manyula... me thinks anyway.

Except Sneasel always pretty much sucked, which was why it needed an evolution, hopefully they'll rearrange its stats so it can take advantage of some friggin' STAB or give it more defense so it can take a hit...Torkoal is very playable on it's own, and I know I'm not the only one who got my *** handed to me by Flannery's Overheating Torkoal early on. The point is, Torkoal, game-wise, is fine. Ash's Torkoal doesn't seem to be able to pull its weight like the others, but it doesn't seem to be a problem, as they haven't actually addressed it on the show.

Personally, I'm content with the Hoenn League. I wasn't expecting some 20 episode story-arc, nor was I expecting any surprise evolutions. I just wanted to see Ash's Pokemon duke it out in some tough battles. I don't see Masamune as another Gary. Hell, they're nothing alike at all. Their only similarity is the match number Ash faces him at. Moreso, I like Masamune's team, despite the fact that the Pokemon I wanted to see battle the most, Girafarig and Growlithe didn't do so well. As for Tetsuya, He has enough of a past, and we've seen him battling to at least make him believable. He has a badass Meowth, and his team isn't full of super powered up Pokemon. Hell, the only reason Harrison was even worth a damn to anyone was because he had a Blaziken. Take away Blaziken, and the rest of his team was "meh".

The only problem with this battle I'm having is that Swampert was KOed by Corphish. I mean, is it me, or is Corphish a savage in this league?! He's wiped out enough Pokemon to skip the Crawdaunt stage and turn into Mewtwo! XD I'm glad Corphish is getting his revenge, but I wanted to see Swampert power through some of Ash's Pokemon. But then again, it's nice to see a 3rd stage Starter Pokemon that isn't godly in power.

Pokemon Fan
27th May 2005, 5:56 PM
Concerning Torkoal, I think it should be noted that many of the battles it has been in were really well animated, good battles (i.e vs. the Steelix when it was first caught, vs. Lombre, vs. Scizor).

I think the real problem a lot of people have with Torkoal's performance is that they regard most of the battles its won as "unimportant." To me a quality battle is a quality battle. ^_^

Not that I wouldn't have had Torkoal perform better in this league, it's just still nothing to get too upset over in my view.

JazzJazz
27th May 2005, 8:00 PM
And so on. I think they hate Torkoal.

Perhaps it's hard to draw... or the voice actor for torkoal is a nasty piece of work and they like to have him/her around as little as possible.

V Faction
27th May 2005, 8:15 PM
Well then they wouldn't have selected it as a Pokemon. Besides, I figure Glalie is x10 harder to draw with all his little bumps and shadows.

Korobooshi Kojiro
27th May 2005, 9:35 PM
Perhaps it's hard to draw... or the voice actor for torkoal is a nasty piece of work and they like to have him/her around as little as possible.

Miki does Torkoal!

Anyway, Glalie < Torkoal in drawing terms, IMO.

phoenix12
28th May 2005, 2:07 AM
frednmethod mentioned that Noctowl got shafted in Johto, which I can't say I totally agree with....it won nearly the entire Morty battle by itself with this outta-nowhere super-powerful psychic attack...it just blew in the battle against Harrison because it was up against a Steelix...but Phanpy I totally agree with, that little cutie didn't get enough airtime at all

GreenKirby
28th May 2005, 2:32 AM
That was one lame battle. This whole match was plotted in minutes just like Masamune's Pokemon.

But I bet Tetsuya's battle will much better.

jolteonjak
28th May 2005, 2:45 AM
Corphish.... Corphish.... so people, do you still think that Corphish should evolve into Crawdaunt because it's not strong enough?

The only reason I preferred it was because I thought it would have been left out (well I guess Torkoal gets that honor now...damn writers). I was thinking about it the other day. Crawdaunt can't be the easiest thing to draw and make move around. Plus as a Corphish it seems to have more agility (not the speed move) to manuver (that doesn't look right) than Crawdaunt would.

Before you flame me for the writers not making Squirtle, Totodile, or Cyndaquil evolve, I'm sorry, but I can't figure that one out. The way I see it Squirtle and Cyndaquil should have evolved.

CyberCubed
28th May 2005, 3:34 AM
Squirtle should never evolve. Ash doesn't need a Wartotle.

Squirtle's personality is why it's so popular, why would they kill it off for a pointless evolution? It's the whole point why people like Bulbasaur and Squirtle, those two evolving would be idiocy upon the writers part. Squirtle kicks ***, I don't know why people think otherwise, it's stronger than that dim-witted lobster anyday.

As for his Johto pokes, yeah maybe some of them should have evolved. I really wanted Phanpy to evolve, but after all this Donphan crap the writers have shoved at us (Donphan filler, then Tetsuya having Donphan), seeing Ash with Donphan wouldn't be that special anymore.

frednmethod
28th May 2005, 3:48 AM
frednmethod mentioned that Noctowl got shafted in Johto, which I can't say I totally agree with....it won nearly the entire Morty battle by itself with this outta-nowhere super-powerful psychic attack...it just blew in the battle against Harrison because it was up against a Steelix...but Phanpy I totally agree with, that little cutie didn't get enough airtime at all

I was actually mentioning the Johto league, instead of the whole Johto saga, but come to think of it, Noctowl was shafted in the entire Johto region.

So it got the honor in beating Morty... and what else? That was the only gym battle Noctowl participated in (like Torkoal's only gym battle being against Norman). And as far as I can rememeber, Ash almost never used it to battle at all. Compare it to pokemon like Cyndauquil/Swellow/Corphish/Bayleef/Glalie... so yes, it was shafted. We could have seen a whole lot more of it, if Ash had realized that bird types are actually worth before he got Swellow.

Torkoal Stu
28th May 2005, 5:33 AM
So it got the honor in beating Morty... and what else? That was the only gym battle Noctowl participated in (like Torkoal's only gym battle being against Norman). And as far as I can rememeber, Ash almost never used it to battle at all. Compare it to pokemon like Cyndauquil/Swellow/Corphish/Bayleef/Glalie... so yes, it was shafted. We could have seen a whole lot more of it, if Ash had realized that bird types are actually worth before he got Swellow.

True, and it got seen once or twice in the league(like Torkoal) and I think it lost. But I'm not sure.

But I'm having NO hopes of Torkoal in the next match due to we See Torkoal using flamethrower and Shiftry dodging it. But Torkoal must be redeemed don't you guys agree?

Heracross
28th May 2005, 6:38 AM
I have now seen this episode, and the battle was just... meh. Fortunately Masamune got his act together after his Guardie fainted, and continued the rest of the battle with his usual vigor. I'll try to give a short summary of the episode:

-There is a brief summary of the previous episode
-From what I could understand, the judge is about to declare Masamune to be disqualified
-Satoshi objects and insists Masamune sends out his next pokémon
-Masamune chooses Guardie, and Heigani has little trouble defeating it
-Masamune is about to have a breakdown when Satoshi yells at him to keep going, or something
-Masamune regains his fighting spirit and sends out Laglarge
-It and Heigani exchange atacks untill they both faint
-They take a break as Masamune has lost three pokémon
-The battle is resumed on a grass field
-Satoshi chooses Pikachu and Masamune sends out Haganeeru
-They exchange some attacks, mainly dig and quick attack, and eventually Pikachu is knocked out when they both use iron tail at the same moment
-Satoshi sends out Kootasu, who is doing fine at first, but ends up being knocked out by dragonbreath
-Satoshi sends out Juputoru, who dodges all of Haganeeru's attacks and uses leaf blade to cut straight through dragonbreath, at the same time defeating it
-Masamune sends out Gligar and the two pokémon get into a semi-aerial battle which ends up with Gligar slamming Juputoru into the ground and defeating it
-Satoshi sends out Oosubame, who engages Gligar in an aerial match (obviously)
-The two pokémon end up knocking each other out
-Satoshi sends out Onigohri, and Masamune uses Metang
-The two pokémon exchange attacks, and Onigohri comes out on top
-Later, Masamune and Satoshi-tachi meet up again, and Masamune congratulates Satoshi and wishes him luck, or something XP
-Musashi-tachi are shown eating a large dinner, provided by their 'boss'
-Tetsuya is shown talking to is pokémon and there is a rather interesting-looking dialogue between Nyasu of the Rocket-dan and Tetsuya's Nyasu
-Satoshi and Masamune are shown having a rather long converation sitting in hammocks next to each other in the trees
-Satoshi finds out that he will be facing Tetsuya
-The battle begins with Satoshi choosing Onigohri, and Tetsuya going with Jukain right off the bat
-The episode ends as Jukain's solarbeam and Onigohri's ice beam collide and make a large explosion (gee, where have we seen that before?)

Worst summary ever. :P

Anyways, on a whole the battle could have been much better, but it did have it's good points. I also liked the music they chose to use - there were a couple pieces from the fifth movie and at least one from the Raikou special, so that was good. And I'll be looking foreward to when someone who knows Japanese gets ahold of the episode so they can translate the what Nyasu says to Tetsuya's Nyasu.

Haine
28th May 2005, 7:36 AM
I just saw AG130.

I noticed something, if Satoshi loses against Tetsuya, I know it would be top 8 again. However it would be that he made it to the third round and in one of the first eps of Hoenn he was talking about how he made it to the second round in Johto. If that is true then regardless if he loses or wins he made it one round further than Johto.

However he did make that second round comment in the dub so I hope it is accurate.

Heracross
28th May 2005, 7:57 AM
By the way, if anyone was wondering what meteor mash looks like, here's a picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Heracross/Pokemon/Meteor_Mash.jpg). Pretty cool-looking attack if you ask me, and the computer generated stuff looks great.

Torkoal Stu
28th May 2005, 9:19 AM
Wow, poor Glalie, but I always wondered what it would look like.

Thanks for the summry though, it helped me.

Flamethrower Charizard
28th May 2005, 9:54 AM
What about Swampert who did he face? (sorry I don't know the Japanese names)

ChaosMage
28th May 2005, 12:21 PM
So far in the league, speed and evasiveness have played a major role. Unfortunately, Torkoal has very low abilities of this nature. Why do you think Swellow, Grovyle, Glalie and Corphish are kicking arse and he's not? He can hardly move, and I doubt he's the brightest bulb in the box.

Anyway, the updated table as it stands!

Pikachu
Wins- Hitmonlee
Losses- Dugtrio, Steelix

Grovyle
Wins- Quilava, Walrien, Steelix
Losses- Charizard, Gligar

Glalie
Wins- Charizard, Dugtrio, Metang
Draws- Misdreavus

Corphish
Wins- Swalot, Golduck, Girafarig, Growlithe
Losses- Walrien
Draws- Swampert

Swellow
Wins- Venomoth, Scizor
Losses- Walrien
Draws- Gligar

Torkoal
Losses- Golduck, Steelix
Draws- Tropius

Gravy
28th May 2005, 12:48 PM
Chaosmage, Corphish didn't loose to Venomoth. Kaeda tried to have Venomoth use supersonic on Corphish, but it was already confused so the move didn't work. Then Ash quickly returned it and sent out Swellow. Corphish was brought out later and was defeated by a (painful looking) body slam thanks to Walrein~

CyberCubed
28th May 2005, 4:43 PM
So let me get this straight, Swampert had about 10 seconds of battle time?

:/

Geodude
28th May 2005, 6:05 PM
So let me get this straight, Swampert had about 10 seconds of battle time?

:/
49 seconds, to be exact.

TeddiUrsa
28th May 2005, 6:10 PM
what attack did glalie use to take down metang? It look like rapid spin too me ( cause it was spinning like crazy..^^) but I m not sure if satoshi ordered a different attack as it sounded nothing like "Kousoku supin" to me. was it a headbutt on crack?

Sushi
28th May 2005, 6:13 PM
Type Wild!! *dances about* How awesome!
I must admit this episode wasn't as good as the last one, but it would have been hard to top it anyway.
In order to bring out more emotional scenes (that were the real focus of this ep IMO, rather than the battle) they rushed the fight a bit too much. But I'm okay with it. At least they played some good BGMs ^_^
I'm really glad Ash provoked Masamune in order to make him battle properly. As I said in the Speculation Thread, I would have hated it if it had been some corny dialogues.

As for the battle, I liked Swellow vs. Gligar the most. The only thing about it that irritated me was that they used the same attack-and-explosion-animation three times in a row..
Glalie did well too, but Ash forgot to hug it this time XP Not that I'm complaining, but it was a sweet habit somehow.

Lastly, I loved the conversation between the two Meowths. It was really funny when TR Meowth warned the other one of Pikachu, and Meowth-in-boots just made some snobbish sounding comments and walked off.

Overall, it wasn't excellent, but still a very good episode.

EDIT: TeddiUrsa, it was Headbutt. But it looked different in this episode, that's for sure.

V Faction
28th May 2005, 7:16 PM
Are they afraid to give Glalie new moves? That Headbutt sure is a jack-of-all-trades attack. Next thing you know, it'll give birth.

WindyNight
28th May 2005, 8:01 PM
Okay, I just watched that episode.. The battle between Ash and Masamune was okay...
Now, I have a few things to say:
~Pikachu was acting poorly in the HL and same as Torkoal...
~Grovyle and Glalie were really great in the HL...
~Masamune was not battling as good as he used to be....
Overall, I give a rating 7/10 for the episode...^^

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
28th May 2005, 11:27 PM
Gligar versus Grovyle is a HUGE YES from me. Everyone knows Grovyle is a powerhouse, and anything that can take it down is a powerful Pokémon. If anything, this episode was meant to show us how strong a Gligar really can be. It didn't get a direct loss, either, as it tied with Swellow. Yay for the writers liking Gligar!!
Glalie has been owning in this League, which I think great. Glalie's pretty UU anywhere(even though all of its Base Stats are 80, which is pretty good), and these impressive victories really give it some much-needed redemption.
Also, Snorunt probably had a great deal of experience beforehand. It evolves at Lv. 42 ingame. I know the animé is different, but that has to play some part in this. Snorunt evolves later than any other Pokémon Ash has ever had. For it to evolve in such a short time after receiving it, it must've had a great deal of experience beforehand. We just never realized it through its goofy, eccentric exterior.

SC~ out

JazzJazz
28th May 2005, 11:35 PM
Also, Snorunt probably had a great deal of experience beforehand. It evolves at Lv. 42 ingame. I know the animé is different, but that has to play some part in this. Snorunt evolves later than any other Pokémon Ash has ever had. For it to evolve in such a short time after receiving it, it must've had a great deal of experience beforehand. We just never realized it through its goofy, eccentric exterior.

My thoughts exactly, we rarely get any indication how much experience the pokemon have when they're first caught (except for a few examples).

frednmethod
29th May 2005, 2:58 AM
I know. People are always saying 'X shouldn't evolve/win because he was only barely caught and has little experience!' Krabby, like Snorunt could have had a good amount of battling experience before it was caught. And it's not that surprising, since Ash focused on training for only Snorunt for like 15 episodes.

Heracross
29th May 2005, 3:47 AM
But Satoshi's 'training' really sucked, and consisted mainly of him telling Yukiwarashi to use ice beam repeatedly. -_-

And like I said earlier, even though it may have been in battles in the wild, that's nothing like competing in the Houen League. Pokémon battling there are much more powerful than wild ones, and have been trained by humans. The fact that Onigohri is doing so well with such little competitive battling experience and rather lousy training is what I find annoying.

Pokemon Fan
29th May 2005, 4:06 AM
But Satoshi's 'training' really sucked, and consisted mainly of him telling Yukiwarashi to use ice beam repeatedly. -_-
It may not have helped it learn the move but it probably jacked up its experience level. Punching a bean bag will make you stronger even if your fighting skills don't improve from it. ^_^


And like I said earlier, even though it may have been in battles in the wild, that's nothing like competing in the Houen League. Pokémon battling there are much more powerful than wild ones, and have been trained by humans. The fact that Onigohri is doing so well with such little competitive battling experience and rather lousy training is what I find annoying.
I wonder just how much that applies in the anime. They've never actually said that wild Pokemon are usually weaker than trained ones, though it can be said to be usually true some of the wild Pokemon they've encountered have been far stronger than trained examples. The variation is extreme. i.e just look at how small and weak that Swampert of Masumune's was compared to the Swampert met early in Hoenn (which had recieved some training but my point stands).

Unlike in the game, wild Pokemon train themselves and get stronger through living. Once they have a human trainer they can unlock even greater power but not always. It seems it comes with a risk. They've repeatedly said in the anime that a Pokemon can only be as strong as its trainer. Due to that connection, a lot of Pokemon may not perform to their true potential. For instance, I'll bet Masamune's Girafarig would have appeared a lot stronger if it had been commanded properly. And we've seen how weak Ash's Pokemon can seem when he gives them poor commands. It's the old trainer link.

Kakashi-Sharingan Warrior
29th May 2005, 3:30 PM
Im just looking at the pics

How could Corphish knock out Swampert with crab hammer?

As a user of swampert I am offended!

It's nice to see Torkoal have some screen time, especially againts a Steelix

crawdauntpro
29th May 2005, 3:37 PM
Corphish and Swampert DKO'd each other and Torkoal lost to Steelix which i think is really unfair even though he lost through what looked like "Dragonbreath".

frednmethod
29th May 2005, 3:38 PM
How could Corphish knock out Swampert with crab hammer?

Then what other attack did you expect Corphish to use? Crabhammer is Corphish's strongest attack. It KOs more than 80% of its opponents by Crabhammer.


Hey, I just noticed something while playing the games.
My Snorunt just evolved into Glalie and I checked its size... it's bigger than the trainer! I wonder why the animators decided to shrink Glalie so much and make it just about as big as Ash's upper body, when in the games it's supposed to be about a head bigger than Ash. Maybe they thought it would be too scary then? I'm not sure but I sure would have like Glalie to be its original size, then quite a few people would stop complaining about how Glalie is on fire and defeating anyone in sight right now.

Heracross
29th May 2005, 5:08 PM
It doesn't matter how big it is, it's the fact that it was so recently caught and only evolved about five episodes ago. >_>

V Faction
29th May 2005, 5:16 PM
If you look, you'll find Glalie was much bigger in its debut episode. Ash could've probably ridden on its head. I wish they hadn't shrunk it either, but what ya gonna do.

Ryusuke Hikari
29th May 2005, 5:41 PM
By the way, if anyone was wondering what meteor mash looks like, here's a picture. Pretty cool-looking attack if you ask me, and the computer generated stuff looks great.
I'm amazed that Glalie survied that attack. 0_0

The writers are getting sloppy...again. -_- I was expecting a battle like the previous Houen battle. It was believable and long. I mean this fight only had one-hit-Kos and Torcoal got beaten by a Steelix? 0_o That's crazy if you ask me. Glalie...I still don't know how it got THAT much power. But, I have hope that Ash's battle with Tatsya will be better than this battle...

frednmethod
29th May 2005, 5:50 PM
Torcoal got beaten by a Steelix? 0_o That's crazy if you ask me

If you think about it though, Steelix beating a Torkoal isn't that weird. Both are super-effective against each other. Ground is effective against fire, and fire is effective against steel, while neutral to fire. Notice that Steelix never use Iron Tail on Torkoal, it only used Dig and Dragonbreath.

So it's not strange at all that Steelix beat Torkoal. Plus, we've seen that it's one of Masamune's strongest pokemon besides Gligar.

Geodude
29th May 2005, 10:10 PM
And saying that the battle *only* had 1-hit KOs is completely false.

TeddiUrsa
29th May 2005, 10:51 PM
many people did expect a pikachu/metang battle due to their first battle, but I think the glalie/metang battle was a better idea because both pokemon are fresh-evolved pokemon , a contests who could handle his newest pokemon better

V Faction
30th May 2005, 1:27 AM
Still, I know Kenshin there isn't the only one who was slapped in the face by the Glalie vs Metang battle. Rarely does the show get a chance to showcase the Steel > Ice Type advantage and here was the perfect time to do it. And y'know what? It ends up on the cutting room floor for whatever inane reason. I would've prefered to have Glalie to have gone up against Metang, lost, and then have the showdown between it and Pikachu despite how cliche it really is.

I can understand Steelix triumphing against Pikachu and Torkoal (kind of), but I really wish the same hadn't occured with Glalie over Metang.

On the plus side, I always knew Masamune's Gligar was kickass and it taking down Grovyle and kamikazing with Swellow proves that.

Torkoal Stu
30th May 2005, 6:26 AM
Look

http://www2.filb.de/anime/ag/130/131.jpg

Torkoal did get one good hit in. But then it got another one then Steelix used dig and then used draonbreath.

ChaosMage
30th May 2005, 12:54 PM
Torkoal has some major opportunities coming up... let's hope he achieves some of them and gets at least one victory!

Torkoal Stu
30th May 2005, 4:18 PM
Torkoal has some major opportunities coming up... let's hope he achieves some of them and gets at least one victory!

In the speculation thread for the next episode said Torkoal will beat Spectile and Metagross and lose to shirtry to redeem it slef and I was like please let that happen. Because that is the perfect way to redeem itself becasue two full evolutions.

Gravy
1st June 2005, 1:47 AM
Corphish vs. Swampert was crap. It wasn't really anything spectacular to look at, and it was pretty much over as soon as it started.
Pikachu vs. Steelix was actually not too bad considering how nice it looked.
Torkoal vs. Steelix was just plain sad. Both in the boo-hoo and pathetic sense of the word.
Grovyle defeating Steelix didn't even make any sense, but I suppose I can't complain seeing as it looked pretty impressive. I especially liked when Grovyle tore through the Dragonbreath attack like it was nothing.
Gligar's battle against Swellow was pretty crap. We've seen Swellow take on much more punishment then that and still go on strong. Rushed~
Glalie is actually starting to bore me now, and its battle against Metang was really nothing too impressive. Headbutt, Take Down, Ice Beam, Confusion back and forth.
And I have to say, Metang's voice sucks. As does Sceptile's. Sceptile screaming out 'Juuiiii!' in a high pitched voice isn't exactly intimidating :P I don't think I can take either of them seriously~

I liked the interaction between both the Meowth's before the battle between Ash and Tetsuya. I was wondering if either of them would ever cross paths in a civil manner, and I'm glad they did. Even if the end result was Meowth getting crushed.

On the whole, I thought this episode was mediocre at best. I really don't think most of the scenes involving the characters chatting to each other were needed, or at least, they didn't need to be so lengthy. It just made the episode feel like a pretty weak effort to piece lots of things together at once.
On the plus side, some of the animation used wasn't actually half bad. Most notably during Pikachu's skirmish against Steelix, and pretty much all of Grovyle's time on screen. Gotta love how Grovyle ALWAYS gets nicely animated battle sequences.

Geodude
1st June 2005, 5:14 AM
Grovyle defeating Steelix didn't even make any sense
How exactly did it not make sense? There was nothing wrong with that part of the battle.

Alfonso
1st June 2005, 5:36 AM
What an utter, bitter dissapointment this episode was. In fact, I was actually DISGUSTED after watching it.

1) Growlithe. WTF. What was the purpose of giving Masamune Growlithe if they were just going to make it cannon fodder? -_- Oh, and boring old Kanto Pokemon plz.

2) SWAMPERT VS. CORPHISH. WTF. I'm sorry, but this was total b*llshit. I don't care how strong Corphish is, this was totally crap. So much for Grovyle vs. Swampert being the last battle. :3

3) Glalie vs. Metang. ...wtf. No Grovyle vs. Swampert, or Pikachu vs, Metang. Just crappy old Glalie against boring old Metang. >.> A rubbish battle, too.

4) Torkoal being screwed over. AGAIN.

So they waste lots of nice time with crappy talky bits. Battles could have been much longer without bits like TR. >.>

Alfonso says: STFU Scriptwriters and let us talk the Helm.

Factory Head Noland
1st June 2005, 12:01 PM
Alfonso!!!!!!

This battle was very rushed I think. Corphish vs. Swampert didn't make much sense, Swampert was beaten way too easily for being a fully evolved Pokemon.
I liked the Steelix battles, they weren't that rushed and made sense (except Overheat being used, should have done more damage!).

I wonder why Masamune sent out Growlithe when he did, against Corphish? he saw how bad Corphish defeated Girafarig so why sent out a Fire type then to have the same fate as Girafarig?

I liked Swellow vs. Gligar and Glalie vs. Metang, those battles were done quite well. There is a lot of both Pokemon knocking each other out lately but it works with me ^_^

Gravy
1st June 2005, 12:50 PM
Yay, Alfonso is back. Teh awesomeness indeed ~^.^~


How exactly did it not make sense? There was nothing wrong with that part of the battle.
Grovyle taking down Steelix with one Leaf Blade, and the fact that Steelix hadn't taken too much damage before-hand.
It was nicely done like the majority of Grovyle battles tend to be and this is the animé where anything can happen, but when he manages to KO a metallic snake creature with one attack that isn't actually effective, something's screwy.

Factory Head Noland
1st June 2005, 1:22 PM
Steelix was hit with a very powerful Overheat from Torkoal beforehand, when Grovyle used Leaf Blade it attacked Steelix and made it fall with the force used in the attack.

Alfonso
1st June 2005, 1:31 PM
Yay, Alfonso is back. Teh awesomeness indeed ~^.^~


Grovyle taking down Steelix with one Leaf Blade, and the fact that Steelix hadn't taken too much damage before-hand.
It was nicely done like the majority of Grovyle battles tend to be and this is the animé where anything can happen, but when he manages to KO a metallic snake creature with one attack that isn't actually effective, something's screwy.

Answer= Steelix's KO looked cool, so that's why it was there.

To be honest, I was rather happy with Steelix's performance in the battle. I know I wasn't the only one who thought it would simply be Torkoal fooder, and so... :D 'Sides, Steelix is awesome. *has one in Netbattle named Galcian* 500 Defense, plz.

Korobooshi Kojiro
1st June 2005, 1:44 PM
I love Glalie, and I thought its battle against metang was cool.

XD with the Swampert and Corphish scene. Seeing two Pokemon beat each other up with happy music playing.

I hate Steelix. It beat Torkoal.......

GLIGAR WAS AWESOME! And so was its opponents.

XD. It looks like james, Jessie, and Meowth got pregnant after eating all that food.

Type Wild playing was a treat!

Jesse GS the II
1st June 2005, 3:41 PM
So, let me get this straight - we finally got a Sceptile...and it wasn't Ash's Grovyle evolving?

Damn, I was really hoping they'd go that route...but still, we've got one more "Ash Vs. Masamune" episode, so there's still hope. If they pit Ash's Grovyle against Masamune's Sceptile and have it evolve then, that'd be a great way to finish off the battle.

frednmethod
1st June 2005, 4:30 PM
The best battle for me was Grovyle vs Gligar. Even though Grovyle lost, the battle was really cool, with Grovyle hiding in the grass like some predator while Gligar flies around cutting the grass to look for it.

Korobooshi Kojiro
1st June 2005, 6:10 PM
So, let me get this straight - we finally got a Sceptile...and it wasn't Ash's Grovyle evolving?

Damn, I was really hoping they'd go that route...but still, we've got one more "Ash Vs. Masamune" episode, so there's still hope. If they pit Ash's Grovyle against Masamune's Sceptile and have it evolve then, that'd be a great way to finish off the battle.


..............................................

Um, Ash beat Masamune in this episode. And we already saw a Sceptile before this episode, two episodes ago belonging to Tetsuya.

Jesse GS the II
1st June 2005, 8:53 PM
..............................................

Um, Ash beat Masamune in this episode. And we already saw a Sceptile before this episode, two episodes ago belonging to Tetsuya.

Ah, so I didn't have it straight after all...guess that's what I miss when I'm away for a week.

Geodude
2nd June 2005, 10:05 PM
Grovyle taking down Steelix with one Leaf Blade, and the fact that Steelix hadn't taken too much damage before-hand.
It was nicely done like the majority of Grovyle battles tend to be and this is the animé where anything can happen, but when he manages to KO a metallic snake creature with one attack that isn't actually effective, something's screwy.
You're conveniently forgetting two things:

1. Steelix had already taken damage from a supereffective Overheat. (Why is it people always forget about damage done by a previous Pokemon?)

2. Leaf Blade does normal damage to Steelix.

Heracross
2nd June 2005, 10:28 PM
Not to mention Haganeeru's special defense blows. And although applying game mechanics to the animé doesn't work too well, in this situation you'd think it would come into account to some degree. :P

Unlike Mikan's Haganeeru, Masamune's wasn't even using any sort of defensive tactics against the fire-type attacks. It just took Kootasu's overheat at full power and hardly even flinched.

V Faction
2nd June 2005, 10:38 PM
Right. Terrible Special Defense. I guess that's why it survives a damn Overheat!

I wish they would make up their minds on how they plan to handle these battles. It seems more like a dart board effect than a coherent method.

Heracross
2nd June 2005, 10:48 PM
Maybe I wasn't too clear... I was complaining that Haganeeru did survive overheat. >_>

Ash XD
2nd July 2005, 7:32 PM
Yeah cybercubed yourright squirtle is by far the best water pokemon ash has tsss i hat the freakin corphish and bulbasaur is also grater and better than Grovyle

Blaziken master
23rd August 2005, 8:51 PM
I actually thought this ep was okay,just that the battle was rushed and torkoal,girafarig and swampert being shafted.The glalie vs metang wasn't the best,but I loved the gligar matches.I also love the part where meowth gets crushed by the tree

WaterDragon trainer
25th March 2006, 3:38 PM
I know I'm not supposed to post on threads that haven't been posted in for a month, but this episode just appeared in the US.
Anyways, I thought this episode was great. It was cool to see a Meteor Mash. It was also cool to see a Sceptile since I missed last week's episode. It was funny when the tree fell on TR Meowth after Meowth in Boots cut it. The TC was very cool and interesting. The battle between Morrison and Ash was very cool.
Only 2 things in this episode.
1) Morrison's Steelix
a) it's voice wasn't echo-like like Jasmine's
b) is it just me or was Steelix smaller than Jasmine's or the other Steelix in the valley where Ash caught Torkoal?
2) Max said that Glaile has the advantage over Metang. It should've been the other way around (Metang has the advantage over Glaile).

Geki
25th March 2006, 4:14 PM
I think this was the worst battle of the Hoenn League so far. It was rushed, and I felt like the battles weren't that good. Mostly it was dodging, and then attacks that ended up either KOing, or badly damaging the Pokemon. How is it possible for two Dragonbreaths from a Steelix to KO a Torkoal that hit it with Overheat and Flamethrower?

9/10

RaikousThunder
25th March 2006, 4:36 PM
I liked this episode. Ha they messed up the title, Choose It Or Loose It. Steelix was really cool. I really like Morrison in this ep, hes a cool character. Gligar was really good too. Well thats it.

CyberCubed
25th March 2006, 4:59 PM
For Growlithe that put up such a good fight against the Machamp and Marowak from its first battle, Ash sure KO'd it quick.

Heh, anyone notice that Corphish took out three of Morrison's Pokemon? (Girafarig, Growlithe and Swampert) Its so powerful already, if it ever becomes a Crawdaunt it'd probably even surpass Ash's Squirtle.

Steelix was awesome, and Torkoal got yet another embarassing defeat. Seriously, what's the point of Torkoal? It's not only the weakest Pokemon on his Hoenn team, but it barely ever gets a win! Were the writers really that desperate to give Ash a Fire type this region...he could have done without one.

Heh, I liked Grovyle Vs. Gligar as well as Swellow Vs. Gligar.

Metang Vs. Glalie was also cool. Glalie is very strong, Ash is lucky that Snorunt evolved during the Grand Fetsival, otherwise he may have lost against Morrison.

V Faction
25th March 2006, 5:03 PM
Heh, anyone notice that Corphish took out three of Morrison's Pokemon? (Girafarig, Growlithe and Swampert) Its so powerful already, if it ever becomes a Crawdaunt it'd probably even surpass Ash's Squirtle.
Surely you've noticed that it is only powerful when it needs to be.


Steelix was awesome, and Torkoal got yet another embarassing defeat. Seriously, what's the point of Torkoal? It's not only the weakest Pokemon on his Hoenn team, but it barely ever gets a win! Were the writers really that desperate to give Ash a Fire type this region...he could have done without one.
You want to know what it is? Bad writing. Instead of giving Ash a different Pokemon or making Torkoal worthwhile, they let it flicker out and die, then quickly send it to Oak's.

CyberCubed
25th March 2006, 5:05 PM
True, but its another reason why having the same types every region is pointless. Ash could have done without a Fire type this region, and he'd still get just as far.

V Faction
25th March 2006, 5:07 PM
Most stuff in Pokemon is pointless. They could give Ash a Grass Pokemon, Bug Pokemon, and Poison Pokemon as his team members and STILL have them advance to the Championship.

It's all a matter of the writers' will... Which is why I get frustrated sometimes because then we can clearly see Torkoal's negative performance is a reflection of that will.

jolteonjak
25th March 2006, 5:26 PM
All I have to say is I'm so glad the dub didn't do what the translations of the Japanese episode saw (I saw this episode with subtitles).

"Headbutt of Power"
"Take Down of Courage"

That made the Japanese episode very excrutiating for me.

What everyone else said is pretty much echoed here. Rushed battle. Shafted Torkoal and Swampert.

Medea
25th March 2006, 6:29 PM
This episode was alright. I couldn't help but feel sorry for Morrison at the very beginning of the episode. But then it quickly died! Those two blockheads really belong together.

Pokemon Fan
26th March 2006, 12:24 AM
The trouble with this episode is that by wanting to display all six pokemon of both opponents they ended up making the battle quite unrealistic. If they really wanted to make Ash and Morrison so closely matched, they should not have allowed Ash to gain such an advantage over him. Have him beat one of Morrison's pokemon due to Morrison not wanting to fight back is fine but instead we have his first pokemon beat three of his.

This results in Morrison essentially almost winning with only half his team against Ash's nearly whole one. It was simply too rushed and unbelievable. It would have been alright for Ash to win with two Pokemon left over I think.

That being said, Swellow vs. Gligar was good and kept the theme of both of them being able to take a lot of hits.

~Flareon~
26th March 2006, 5:01 AM
I liked this episode. The EverGrande tournament between Morrison VS Ash, it was awesome. Ash won and face off against another rival, Tyson.
This is the battle Ash and Morrison win or lost:
Corphish VS Girafarig: Corphish wins
Corphish VS Growlithe: Corphish wins
Corphish VS Swampert: Both knocked out
Pikachu VS Steelix: Steelix wins
Steelix VS Torkoal: Steelix wins
Steelix VS Grovyle: Grovyle wins
Grovyle VS Gligar: Gligar wins
Gligar VS Swellow: Both knocked out
Glalie VS Metang: Glalie wins

wobbanut
28th March 2006, 12:48 AM
Wow, once the battle finally got started in this episode, it got really good. Morrison and Ash had one kick-butt battle, that was for sure. I loved Morrison's scene with growlithe, too. Morrison really is a great character, I've grown to love him. :) The scene where he says he's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK was the highlight of the episode. :D His scream out that he lost was good too.

Also, I found it so great that they had Lickitung and Wobbuffet together in Trainer's Choice on the day after the fifth anniversary of the airing of "Tricks of the Trade" (and in their traded positions!). Even if they were the wrong choices, that was AWESOME. :D

9/10 for me. At least I actually watched the episodes within 18 hours for a change.

Kamex
30th March 2006, 11:31 PM
Okay episode, I guess. Morrison loses. Can't remember the details at this point.

7/10.

Anyone 4 Buttons?
21st June 2006, 9:59 AM
I really enjoyed all the Hoenn League episodes, but with the title of this episode in the English dub, the title is spelt wrong. It says 'loose' instead of 'lose' which mean completely different things. Still, good episode.

Ashy Boy
21st June 2006, 11:01 AM
Great battles.

Hikozaru390
21st September 2006, 9:56 PM
Now that this episode has aired on Cartoon Network, I can tell you that CN actually corrected the spelling error on the title card, changing "Choose it or Loose it!" to "Choose it or Lose it!"

Or 4kids realized they were *******es and fixed it.

Battra
26th February 2007, 3:39 PM
An ok episode I really didn't get into Ashes battle with Morrison, but I think the battle between Ash and Tyson is going to be intense. I liked the scene with Meowth from TR trying to give advice to Tyson's Meowth on battling Pikachu I laughed when the tree fell on Meowth.

Jeff Zero
27th July 2007, 4:19 PM
I liked this one, but yeah, the full Pokemon battles were rushed, oddly, Ash's battle against Katie was longer than his battle against Morrison and Tyson.

I actually DON'T like Morrison. I think he's a well written character, but I just don't really like him, and Sean Shemmell's voice for him is...well, interesting, but it can be a bit annoying as some fans have pointed out. I appreciated the Goku connection though. His delivery of the line "So, Ash...onto the Sem-I finals?" always bugged me for some reason, to me it almost sounded like he's not comfortable saying "Semi-finals".

However, there were lines in the episode I really liked because of the energy that he delivered the lines in. The way he voice got kind of cutesy when he was consoling Growlithe was a nice touch in my mind because I think we can all agree that's how a child might playfully talk to a puppie. I also LOVED the way he says "Alright, Steelix, let's go with DIIIIG!" He just sounds so confident and INTO it, and I can't blame him, Steelix's dig really worked well for him for most of the battle. It took Ash three tries to beat Steelix, and the same thing happened with Tyson's Hariyama.

Seeing Meteor Mash used in the anime was a great treat. It truly is a unique and beautiful attack, and the kind you just gotta see in the anime just because of how differant it looks, and sure enough, it was quite true to the game's animations, with the little colorfull gems flying around. I thought Glailie's win over Metang was kinda cheap though--a headbutt can knock out a Steel-type? Who writes this stuff?

Igottapoo
18th January 2009, 2:08 PM
I'm glad Ash set him straight. The battle was getting boring. IMO Morrison deserved to lose for acting like that.

(s.i.e)
3rd March 2009, 2:09 PM
it was good that morrison lost if you ask me, he was getting annoying-_-

Littlemyuu
25th April 2009, 6:57 PM
im kinda glad Morrison lost...he thinks he's really strong and stuff...
it was fun to watch

Ash-kid
18th December 2009, 4:16 PM
Great battle. Morrison was great, but Ash was stronger.

And i loved Metang.

8/10

Lorde
24th February 2010, 1:15 AM
Watching Morrison fight against Ash almost made me enjoy his character. I thought he was pretty annoying before but he obviously put on a great show. I almost pity the fact that he lost against Ash right when the tournament was getting good.

Corphish's victory over Growlithe was expected, again just because the writers decided to make use of type advantages as Hoenn came to a close. Swampert's victory was also something I saw coming, since they wanted Morrison to take down that pesky Corphish so that the field would change to grass. My favorite battle was Gligar versus Grovyle since Grovyle made great use of the grass field in order to hide. Too bad that didn't last long lol.

Overall, Metang versus Glalie was the most surprising moment, since Metang had the advantage but still lost to Glalie in the end. It was cute to see that the lose didn't distance Morrison from Ash. He's an interesting character. 8.5/10

Willow's Tara
17th May 2010, 4:19 AM
Not a bad episode, it was good that Ash had snapped Morrison out it and told the Ref to hold it (Much like Ritchie did when Ash hadn't shown up). It wasn't a bad episode, I am glad Ash won though.

G50
24th April 2011, 10:34 PM
This episode was good. Steelix was very tough to beat, it was great to see Grovyle finally be the 1 to take it down. Seeing Gligar use Guillotine on Grovyle made me cringe. It was cool to see Glalie being able to take down Metang for the round win. It was odd to see Corphish and Swampert knocking each other out. Torkoal as usual lost again.

69/100

KibaLG8
27th April 2011, 5:03 AM
While watching the dubbed version, I am still trying to figure out where the 1st BGM is from during the Torkoal VS Steelix battle. I am sure its from the second movie but it might be a Dub-only BGM since the original version didn't play it during the battle.

TheEpicGoomba
7th May 2011, 3:14 PM
I liked this episode glad to see Morrison, He was one of my favorite characters. Overall nice battle.10/10

Vernikova
22nd August 2012, 8:12 PM
There was no point for Morrison to be acting like that. Or for Morrison to be getting any kind of development at all.