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Geodude
13th April 2004, 11:05 PM
1. No two same-type damaging attacks on anything. It's pointless, redundant, and minimizes your options. Exceptions would be things like Endeavor, whose damage varies.

2. Recognize and appreciate the value of stat-raising and support moves such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Reflect, and so on. If you don't balance out your team with those types of moves, you'll probably get your butt kicked by a team that has them.

3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.

4. For held items, you can't go wrong with Leftovers. I realize multiple Leftovers are hard to get without trading with other games and going through the battle tower lots, so Shell Bell is an acceptable alternative. Leftovers is always the best held item, unless your Poke has Rest, in which case the usual choice is Chesto Berry, or unless your Poke knows Thief or Covet, in which case don't have it hold anything.

5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.

Feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, etc.



In-Game Hidden Powers by Toy

I am tired of people saying they dont want Hidden Powers ingame

Because it is to complicated or somthing here is and easy Hidden Power Guide

PHYSICAL

Fighting:Odd IV in HP or Atk
Flying:Odd IV in HP,Atk or Def
Ground:Odd IV in Def, Spd
Rock:Odd IV in SAtk
Bug:Odd IV in Hp, Def, SAtk
Ghost:Odd IV in Spd, SAtk

SPECIAL

Fire:Odd IV in Atk, SDef
Water:Odd IV in Hp, Atk, Def, SDef
Grass:Odd IV in Def, Sdef, Spd or Atk, SDef, Spd
Electric:Odd IV in Atk, Def, SDef
Ice:Odd IV in Hp, Atk, Def, SDef, SAtk
Dark:Odd IV in Hp, Atk, Def, SAtk, SDef, Spd

those are the only useful hidden powers

there are differant variations and I will put them in eventually.

To make things easier teach one of the pokemon you are breeding Hidden Power so that each baby has it


http://www.serebii.net/games/hidden-power.shtml Main site's page on it.

FoxHound
13th April 2004, 11:22 PM
All looks good, Geodude. Also, if I may add, a good team is always EV trained to support its stats and/or moveset.

Geodude
13th April 2004, 11:25 PM
Right, good point. But since not too many newbies care too much about that, I didn't include it. But we do have quite a long thread on the subject for those who want to learn.

Raion
14th April 2004, 12:21 AM
I think the point of legendaries is that you need rule skill to use them. To bring out their full power.

You also didn't put anything on Choice Band or Lum Berry. They are also very good items, if used well.

Geodude
14th April 2004, 12:43 AM
They are, but they're not used as frequently as Leftovers. What I meant was that you can't go wrong if you choose Leftovers as a held item.

No, you don't need skill to use legendaries. Their stats are so high that they can beat almost anything, they can learn loads of TMs, and require no skill to use to their full potential. You can't claim to be a good battler if your team is full of Mewtwos and Rayquazas.

Raion
14th April 2004, 12:53 AM
So are you saying that if you were "good" or "okay" you would use more them legendaries? Otherwise I can stick to that.

Geodude
14th April 2004, 2:37 AM
I'm saying that if people have several legendaries on their team (by this I mean Groudon, Mewtwo, and the like, not necessarily the Regis or the G/S/C trio), it usually means that they aren't that skilled at battling, and are probably the same people who give 3 Water moves to a Swampert and stuff like that.

ZoraJolteon
14th April 2004, 2:59 PM
A few suggestions for new rules

1: Hyper Beam is bad on anything except Slaking. Much better alternatives are Return, or a Rock-Headed/High HP Double-Edge

2: Recognise the base stats of pokémon, and make sure your movesets work with them. No physical sweeping Mantine.

Nike
14th April 2004, 4:06 PM
I got one: The main types to use in a team are; Special Sweeper, Phsical Sweeper, Spiker, Hazer, Phazer, Tank, Special Sponge, Phsical Sponge. Unfortunatealy, I have no examples of these.

Iveechan
14th April 2004, 6:01 PM
I'll try and elaborate :D

special sweeper: most fast pokemon with high special attack/good movepool. These Pokemon do well with the attack calm mind. Examples; Alakazam, Starmie, Sceptile

physical sweeper: most tend to be slower, but have a high physical attack/good movepool. These Pokemon do well with attacks like bulk up and swords dance. Examples: Machamp, Metagross, Absol

spiker: lays down spikes so whenever the opponent switches out, the next Pokemon to come in takes damage. This can add up to a lot if spikes is layed down to a maximum of four times (I think). Examples: Glailie, Skarmory, Forretress

rapid spinner: these are rare nowadays for the attack is useful only for spikes. The move will clear away spikes if they are layed down. Examples of rapid spinners: Claydol, Armaldo, Blastoise

Hazer/phazer: a Pokemon who uses haze or psuedohaze (roar and yawn) to either force a switch on the opponent or regulate their stats after they used a move like double team or calm mind. Roar/Whirlwind can be paired with a move like Will O Wisp and Thunderwave to shuffle and cause status ailments. Examples: Altaria (haze), Ninetales (roar, will o wisp), Walrein (yawn).

Tanks are Pokemon who have either a high special defense or defense, or excel at both. They normally have low speed but good staying power and are best as annoyers (ones who would rather use toxic and confuse ray than attacking directly. Examples: Steelix (physical sponge), Blissey (special sponge), Umbreon (both). The first two mentioned can attack also, filling in two roles.

The Ownage
15th April 2004, 3:55 PM
I would just like to say some berries like salac, petaya and liechi berries are useful depending on what type your pokémon is and/or their stats.

e.g. my breloom has a salac berry (raises speed when HP is 1/3) because it is quite slow. So I think these types of berries are useful IMO.

Geodude
15th April 2004, 3:57 PM
Excellent additions, everyone. There are obviously some things I forgot to cover. :p

The Ownage
15th April 2004, 4:07 PM
Oh, and er.. one question. I've heard about "special sponge" (as kingdragon mentioned), what are those? Are they like tanks?

Alfonso
15th April 2004, 4:16 PM
I'm suprised that nobody has touched on Baton Passers. For those that are wondering, Baton Passers are Pokemon that use support moves, and 'pass' them onto another Pokemon in your team via Baton Pass. For example, say you have a Mawille. (who can learn both Iron Defense and Swords Dance, making him a useful BPer) Mawille uses Iron Defense to raise his Defense two levels. Next, he/she 'passes' to Gardevoir, and Pokemon with low Defense stats, (and is slower, than say, Alakazam, so might not get the chance to put up a Reflect as good as a 'Kazam could, which can make all the difference in a battle) which now means that Gardevoir Defense stats have been pumped.

So you see. Baton Passer are very useful, and can free up a space on another Pokemon's move-set. Bear in mind that there are psuedo-passing moves, such as Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard, which don't require Baton-Pass to make the next Pokemon benefit from it's supreme defense/support powers. Although, all those will vanish after 5 rounds.

Good Baton-Passers include Mawille (Swords Dance, Iron Defense) and Gorebyss. (Agility, Amnesia)

Ninjask is good also, learning Swords Dance, Double Team, and Agility. (although, his Speed Boost abilty should cover the Speed stat) Personally, I think he's a tad brittle in this world of people using Metagrosses and Alakazams.

Geodude
15th April 2004, 4:28 PM
Oh, and er.. one question. I've heard about "special sponge" (as kingdragon mentioned), what are those? Are they like tanks?

One word: Blissey. Just what it sounds like, a special sponge is a Pokemon that can "soak up" special attacks, meaning it has great Special Defense.

Alfonso: Unfortunately, the biggest problem with Huntail and Gorebyss is that they're too darn slow.

Alfonso
15th April 2004, 4:33 PM
One word: Blissey. Just what it sounds like, a special sponge is a Pokemon that can "soak up" special attacks, meaning it has great Special Defense.

Alfonso: Unfortunately, the biggest problem with Huntail and Gorebyss is that they're too darn slow.

A problem that could be solved with Rain Dance. Obviously, Thunder would be a problem, but Gorebyss isn't indending to stick around long enough for a rival trainer to whip out an Electric type/Pokemon with Thunder. However, if you didn't to go down the RD route, Gorebyss has pretty good Defense and Special Defense. Well, at least according to the 'Pokemon of the Day Chick'. ^_^o

The Ownage
15th April 2004, 4:39 PM
Oh, so can I refer mantine or shuckle as a special sponge? Thanks anyway geodude.

Off topic : Woah, geodude is a moderator of Ru/Sa discussion and RMT section? Congratz, I didn't see that.

Geodude
15th April 2004, 4:40 PM
Yeah, pretty much. Although Mantine's qualification is questionable due to its 4x weakness to Electric.

And thanks. :)

The Ownage
15th April 2004, 5:01 PM
Just checked foxhound's post, IV's, EV's, etc. They are very useful indeed. I wasted 5 hours straight just to find a starmie with a good nature, ability and IV's =/.

Raion
16th April 2004, 1:14 AM
Good Baton-Passers include Mawille (Swords Dance, Iron Defense) and Gorebyss. (Agility, Amnesia)

Ninjask is good also, learning Swords Dance, Double Team, and Agility. (although, his Speed Boost abilty should cover the Speed stat) Personally, I think he's a tad brittle in this world of people using Metagrosses and Alakazams.


Like you said tis a world of Metagross, I don't know about Ala. Tis also a world of Earthquake and Brick Break. And Mawile is weak to both. Oh look and it can't learn Sword Dance till FR/LG. And because it is a world of Metagross it should be said that Ninjask is better. Sword on to Metagross is good. Double team is not good for Ninjask. Ninjask should only be open to one move.

Geodude
16th April 2004, 1:16 AM
Who can't learn Swords Dance till FR/LG? Your post is confusing.

Raion
16th April 2004, 1:47 AM
Mawile, I was still on he's subject... And "tis" is just an old word for "it is".

Ryuu
16th April 2004, 7:34 AM
umm......I need some help creating my team.

Is it always necessary to have these: hazers, pseudo-hazers, tanks, physical sweepers , spikers?

I dont understand because i'm new to Ruby and Sapphire and I'm going to buy Sapphire in June. Can you help me and say what a basic team should consist of?

Thanks!!!!

The Ownage
16th April 2004, 3:27 PM
No, you choose if you wan't to. I always suggest having 2 of those out of all of them, and having the rest sweepers.

The Big Al
17th April 2004, 9:38 AM
Take abilities into account. You can use hold items to make them dangerous.
Like Synchronize and Lum Berry.
Also, some abilities do the work of attacks so don't waste your time. Ninjasak has no need for Agility because of speed boost.
Some abilities are total garabage and should avoid them.
Like Truant, Lighting Rod (Unless its on Rhydon and you do lots of double battles), Arena Trap (except for catching Pokemon), Stench, Illuminate (again unless looking for wild Pokemon), and Runaway.
Anyway, abilities are now very important in determining move sets and held items and if you keep the Pokemon in battle against certain opponents.

As for team composition. Spikers, hazers, and the like aren't worth it. Just have six well rounded Pokemon with qualities of all and you should do fine.

'Fro-Dizzy
18th April 2004, 1:47 PM
You shoud make your team as balanced as possible, so it can cope with all situations. Rapid Spinners are important for Spikers, Suction Cups (Cradily and Octillery) can't be blown/roared away, and Wish/Reflect/Light Screen still effect after the user has switched out/fainted.

Nm3k
18th April 2004, 5:25 PM
Mawile, I was still on he's subject... And "tis" is just an old word for "it is".
Mawile can learn Sword Dance in Ru/Sa if you breed him with a male Absol or Zangoose.

ZoraJolteon
18th April 2004, 6:20 PM
Al, Arena Trap is actually very good on Dugtrio, as most of the slower electrics who wouldn't get a chance to HP Ice/Water/Ground Dugtrio before he 'quaked them are prevented from being replaced with a fly/levitater.

The Big Al
23rd April 2004, 2:06 AM
That is true. Arena Trap is good, but only in limited situations.

Also, a very important stragdy that has gotten me far is type couter matching.
That is, teaching a Pokemon an attack that is strong against the type or type its weak against.

The easiest one is a Water type knowing Ice Beam to attack the Grasser it'll most likely face.
Others I've used include
Electric type knowing Iron Tail (it's a very good idea) for Rock/Ground types
Flying type knowing Steel Wing for Rock and Ice enemies
Pure Ground knowing Rock Tomb for Flyers and Ice types
Fire Type knowing Dig for Rock enemies (beware of Earthquake though and attach a focus band)
Water knowing Earthquake for Electric Pokemon
There are others.

Type counter matching is a good way to battle. It can save a turn taken usually by switching. Also, you have a very nasty surprise for your opponent when they think they have the advantage.

Geodude
23rd April 2004, 2:22 AM
Although sometimes there are better options. If you're into EP training, you won't want an Electric type with Iron Tail and the like unless it has a really good attack, which is true of exactly no Electric types save Zapdos, because you'll need all the attacking EPs you can get, and splitting them between Physical and Special isn't a good idea usually.

And Dig sucks as an attack, don't use it, ever. 60 BP + 2 turns = way too easy to counter.

The Big Al
23rd April 2004, 11:24 AM
Electric Pokemon like Raichu have a decent attack strength to begin with.

Also, Dig, it may force a switch. Also, attach a Focu Band if your opponent get's cheeky and used Earthquake on something.

Anyway, I always split my effort points, except for pure physical attackers like Fliers and Grounders.

It's just my stratedgy.

Abusolu
26th April 2004, 8:03 AM
Can I chip in an idea?

Variety is the spice of life! Don't be afraid to give that Kyogre Thunder or that Flygon Fire Blast. Example...
Not good Flygon
Crunch
Faint Attack
Dig
Dragonbreath

Good Flygon
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Fire Blast
Crunch

Geodude
26th April 2004, 9:28 AM
Actually, Big Al, Dugtrio is a viable option on RSBot with Arena Trap. Since Magneton is so popular as a Skarmory killer, an Arena Trapping Dugtrio is a handy counter if you have a Skarmory on your team too...heck, even if you don't, it gets rid of a common Electric-type, so it's useful.

pilko
5th May 2004, 3:36 PM
I suggest giving Pokemon many different attack types, ie having a water pokemon with only water attacks will mean it gets creamed. Give it Blizzard to beat grass types. Give pokemon unusual attacks that will shock your opponent ie Seviper with Earthquake. A lot of people won't expect this and it helps against other poison types (poison bad vs poison). Have as many pokemon types as possible in your moveset to be effective against ANYTHING. Also, use a pokemon type as another, like if you can't get a good Dark type, most other types will learn Crunch, mainly dragons. Multi-type pokemon are more likely to learn more types of move and one type could cover the weakness of another against some pokemon, like Kingdra, whose Water types protects it Dragon from Ice

ZoraJolteon
5th May 2004, 7:39 PM
That's essentially just the first rule, and anyway, Blizzard sucks. Or maybe it doesn't? In double team, if it only hits one person then is the power halved anyway? If it isn't then you've got yourself a better attack than Hydro Pump, just with a random target.

Pointful part of post:
99% of the time more accuracy is better than more power
Thunder<Thunderbolt
Hydro Pump<Surf
FireBlast<Flamthrower
Blizzard<Ice Beam

Nike
5th May 2004, 7:47 PM
Not nessisarily. A Special Sweeper is about power, so accuracy doesn't matter.

ZoraJolteon
5th May 2004, 9:12 PM
A special sweeper is about power, so you can't afford to take a hit, since you haven't been concentration on your defences. That's why accuracy is more important.

pilko
6th May 2004, 12:51 PM
That's essentially just the first rule, and anyway, Blizzard sucks. Or maybe it doesn't? In double team, if it only hits one person then is the power halved anyway? If it isn't then you've got yourself a better attack than Hydro Pump, just with a random target.

Pointful part of post:
99% of the time more accuracy is better than more power
Thunder<Thunderbolt
Hydro Pump<Surf
FireBlast<Flamthrower
Blizzard<Ice Beam

What I meant with Blizzard was the Ice Type, not the move. I know the importance of stat raisers etc, I got bored of typing. Thats why I replaced Blaziken's Dig (Crap, very counterable) with Bulk Up (Raises Att + Def, helps it win faster and survive longer with physical attacks) long ago, and anyway, I prefer to use added effects of attacks (yes, they do work, quite often for me, strangely) Another thing, paralysis etc can lower stats of an opponent, which is another way of beating your foe into the ground. There are millions of strategies in Pokemon and I can't be expected to mention them all, or even some of the obvious ones. Please don't moan in future if I miss something. Oh, and in a double battle, Blizzard can take out two grass types one after the other far, far, far, far, far, etc quicker than Surf (Weak vs grass? Yup) even if it hits both. Plus, most water types are also ice type eg Walrein. And where did Hydro Pump Come from? I never mentioned it!

pilko
8th May 2004, 8:02 PM
[QUOTE=Geodude]5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.
QUOTE]

Tis true that having legendaries is no way of developing skill, plus anyone with skill can destroy them with 'weaker' pokemon. Only use a legendary if it is your favourite pokemon and even then don't have more than one.

Oort
8th May 2004, 8:17 PM
Blizzard might be a bit more useful for double battles, but no one would send out two grass types, and at once. And what about fire types? Surf would take out two much faster than blizzard would. Unless your building a pokemon made to take out two grass types at once in doubles battles like it happens a lot. The power isn't halved, however.

Big Al, why avoid truant? It's only on Slaking and Slakoth, and Slaking is still very powerful. Most attack ever(except FR Depxys), same total base stats as Kyogre or Groudon(about 670 or so). The effect itself is bad, but many people use Slaikng. You could even have your other pokemon in a double battle skill swap him.

Special sweepers are often able to take out opponents with weaker moves without risking accuracy. They have high special attack. Use ice beam over blizzard when not fighting Lugias and Latias's. Accuracy is important. Who uses zap canon instead of thunderbolt? For thundder, you could raise its accuracy with rain dance so it would be better than thunderbolt, if you're willing to give up a move slot.

Shutterfly
10th May 2004, 3:09 PM
My team is lugia,latios,suicune,groudon,rayquaza,and latios,,,,,,?r they legendary


Can you please stop spamming? x_X

Thank you

Read the rules please

Cayenne

Maester R
10th May 2004, 4:19 PM
If you ask me Slaking is pretty horrible. His Truant ability essentially halves his usefulness. His high overall Attack/base stats mean nothing when your opponent is still getting a free turn each round.

Oort
11th May 2004, 4:02 AM
I don't think so. He can KO almost anything in one hit, and it will probably take at least 1-2 hits to kill him, I think he could take out at least one opponent before he dies. So if he kills an opponent, takes a hit, and kill another, then that's pretty good. Even if he's slower, he'll probably take down one. Have you tried him? I don't think there are better physical attackers, who are about doing damage, not avoiding it. A physical attcker Salamence without truant could defeat some in one hit, but not as much as Slaking.
That's just my opinion. Don't use Sla if you don't like him.

Geodude
13th May 2004, 6:02 AM
If you ask me Slaking is pretty horrible. His Truant ability essentially halves his usefulness. His high overall Attack/base stats mean nothing when your opponent is still getting a free turn each round.

Oh yeah? Just take a Slaking into Colosseum, pair it up with a partner that knows Skill Swap, and THEN see what you say. :D

Vash
13th May 2004, 6:07 AM
Oh yeah? Just take a Slaking into Colosseum, pair it up with a partner that knows Skill Swap, and THEN see what you say. :D
Well without that its useless. but I still like the pokemon

bme™
13th May 2004, 6:26 AM
1. No two same-type damaging attacks on anything. It's pointless, redundant, and minimizes your options. Exceptions would be things like Endeavor, whose damage varies.
There's also an exception for Zangoose. Swords Dance, Quick Attack, Return, Protect/Shadow Ball is a common set for it, because both normal attacks do different things.


3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.
Harder to say now with stats being changed so much from G/S, but sometimes they're useful when it can make a difference between a 1HitKO and a 2HitKO. Quick Claw also isn't that bad. It's funny to see a Salamence get KO'd by a slower Registeel's Explosion because of Quick Claw

One of the best strategies is Will-O-Wisp, Spikes, and Toxic. It's really easy to chew up HP, and because of how poison works now, it's hard to get around it, until Heal Bell'er come back, that is. ._.;

Geodude
13th May 2004, 6:29 AM
1. Yes, that's an exception because of their obviously different purposes. There's a similar case with Dodrio and Swellow.

2. Meh, no, there's always better options than the typed items. Unless you're on RSBot with a Dugtrio and want to hide your lack of Choice Band. It's a learning curve thing. You first learn the rule, then you learn the advanced exceptions later. And gimme Leftovers over Quick Claw that only works 8% of the time anyday.

bme™
13th May 2004, 6:37 AM
2. Meh, no, there's always better options than the typed items. Unless you're on RSBot with a Dugtrio and want to hide your lack of Choice Band. It's a learning curve thing. You first learn the rule, then you learn the advanced exceptions later. And gimme Leftovers over Quick Claw that only works 8% of the time anyday.
There's not always better options than typed items. With an item limit in most matches, you can't have everyone use Choice Band and Salac Berry. Sometimes Explosion used by something won't quite 1HitKO its opponent, but with lets say Pink Bow, it can. Surf from Starmie may 3HKO something, but with Mystic Water is does it in 2. Although the boost seems small, it can make a difference.

Geodude
13th May 2004, 6:37 AM
Item limits are why Salac Berry and the like were invented. :p

'Fro-Dizzy
13th May 2004, 11:33 AM
There's not always better options than typed items. With an item limit in most matches, you can't have everyone use Choice Band and Salac Berry. Sometimes Explosion used by something won't quite 1HitKO its opponent, but with lets say Pink Bow, it can. Surf from Starmie may 3HKO something, but with Mystic Water is does it in 2. Although the boost seems small, it can make a difference.

That's why the standard Shiftry-Explosion set has Silk Scarf. They are used in some circumstances, I agree, but I find that other Items and berries come in handy more.

pilko
13th May 2004, 1:14 PM
Blizzard might be a bit more useful for double battles, but no one would send out two grass types, and at once. And what about fire types? Surf would take out two much faster than blizzard would. Unless your building a pokemon made to take out two grass types at once in doubles battles like it happens a lot. The power isn't halved, however.



What I originally tried (unsuccessfully) to say was that water pokemon could stand up to grass types with an ice type attack. That is all.

Kaiser
16th May 2004, 4:31 AM
OK,sure,in my team i no have moves SUCH AS CALM MIND OR BULK UP.that can be a bad point in my team???here are my teams:http://www.serebiiforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=12651

ZoraJolteon
16th May 2004, 12:43 PM
No stat raising moves=Very bad

Geodude
16th May 2004, 4:48 PM
Indeed, it's bad. Your team will probably get its butt kicked by a team that does have stat-raising moves.

The Ownage
18th May 2004, 5:55 PM
First of all to mods : I'm back :D .

Second of all : ALL my friends are idiots (except the one on the internet... :o). They never use moves like bulk up, calm mind, swords dance, etc. I ALL my friends rear by using them. Mostly calm mind, and then ice beam em! (Note : My friends always are weak to ice, because of Groudon, over-used dragons and ALWAYS 1 flying pokémon that can learn fly).

They say it's crap. Show's what they know :) .

pilko
18th May 2004, 9:37 PM
Proves everything we've been on about right. It isn't about having the highest stats, it's about having the best strategy, moves, some brainpower. See the difference between teams here and teams offline. We all discuss strategies and that, they just go for brute force. Who's better?

Crystal_Milotic
20th May 2004, 2:19 PM
I have a question. Here's my Swampert's current moveset:

Waterfall
Rock Tomb
Mud Shot
Brick Break

Shouldn't I replace Mud Shot with Dig? Because Dig has 100% chance of hitting, Mud Shot: 55 power, 95% chance of hitting.

Just making sure!

ETJ
21st May 2004, 4:59 PM
I have a question. Here's my Swampert's current moveset:

Waterfall
Rock Tomb
Mud Shot
Brick Break

Shouldn't I replace Mud Shot with Dig? Because Dig has 100% chance of hitting, Mud Shot: 55 power, 95% chance of hitting.

Just making sure!

i myself would replace mud shot with earthquake

my moveset's
surf
secret power
earthquake
ice beam

ice beam for grass (or flying, ground, dragon)
secret power for paralysis (the effect in pkmn league or player vs. player battles)

May Ledian19
21st May 2004, 5:08 PM
IMO, Dig is better of a move then Eartthquake, because it lets your Pokemon hide underground for 1 turn and prevents any attacks from harimg the Pokemon (Except for Earthquake, maybe)

Here's a question: If your Pkmn used Dig, and while it was underground, the opponent used Earthquake, would Earthquake hit? Because I think I read on antoter site or in a book (Or maybe here) that it would.....

ETJ
21st May 2004, 5:08 PM
First of all to mods : I'm back :D .

Second of all : ALL my friends are idiots (except the one on the internet... :o). They never use moves like bulk up, calm mind, swords dance, etc. I ALL my friends rear by using them. Mostly calm mind, and then ice beam em! (Note : My friends always are weak to ice, because of Groudon, over-used dragons and ALWAYS 1 flying pokémon that can learn fly).

They say it's crap. Show's what they know :) .

*sighs* my friends are mostly similar
those that are good are at low levels so i always beat them

NONE of my friends know about EV training- kinda shows how bad they are

i love ice beam- 100% accuracy and strengths against so many of the overused types :)

as you can tell, my regice knows it (my L.100 Regice)

although, i do have to admit, i didn't know much about EV training until about a couple of months ago (i've only got 2 well EV trained and useable pkmn (salamence and dusclops - L.100 and L.85 (soon to be trained up to L.100), respectively)

all of my high level friends picked mudkip- so i also trained a sceptile

heh.. no one i know picked sceptile so my swampert RULES them

Rudoku
21st May 2004, 5:19 PM
IMO, Dig is better of a move then Eartthquake, because it lets your Pokemon hide underground for 1 turn and prevents any attacks from harimg the Pokemon (Except for Earthquake, maybe)

Dig only does 60 power, and it easily countered. Back in the original games, it was a much better 100 power, with only one counter. Do you know why no one uses Fly that much? It's the same thing.


Here's a question: If your Pkmn used Dig, and while it was underground, the opponent used Earthquake, would Earthquake hit? Because I think I read on antoter site or in a book (Or maybe here) that it would.....

Earthquake and Magnitude will hit for double damage. Everyone and their mother has Earthquake (except Rapidash for some reason). That's another reason why Dig sucks.

Maester R
21st May 2004, 5:23 PM
With Fly, you're more or less using Gust twice. XD

May Ledian19
21st May 2004, 8:35 PM
Dig only does 60 power, and it easily countered. Back in the original games, it was a much better 100 power, with only one counter. Do you know why no one uses Fly that much? It's the same thing.


Earthquake and Magnitude will hit for double damage. Everyone and their mother has Earthquake (except Rapidash for some reason). That's another reason why Dig sucks.

Whoops! Well, thanks, good thing I deleted Dig to replace it with Earthquake the other day. The only problem is that Earthquake doesn't have hit very often...Well, not for me :(
Thanx ^_^

Geodude
21st May 2004, 8:43 PM
Earthquake is 100% accurate. The only times it won't hit are against Flyers or Levitaters.

FuRRie
22nd May 2004, 4:00 PM
It's true that pokémon with lesser stats but better move sets can completely demolish others. A little example
me against my mate, he isn't really good, he doenst use bulk up, etc.
Will i send out my Corsola (Recover, surf, ice beam, psychic)
and he send out groudon (Thunder, solarbeam, slash, earthquake)

Anyways, my Corsola is slower, anyways he uses Thunder (he thik-nker water is weak vs electric, wel surprise, not much damage :p. I surf, he loses 1/4 or something of his hp, he uses slash, i recover, he uses Thunder (don't know why though :x) i Ice Beam. Hes got 1/4 hp left (don't we love critical :d) Then he uses EQ, and misses (LOL) and i just surf him to death.
So a pokémon with real bad stats (55 att and 65 sp.att or something, kills an uuber
Same happened when my Muk killed his kyogre shortly after :d
anyways, you don't always have to EV train like mad, breed until you get the perfect IV's etc, but you do need to know some things
like stat up moves are good, don't put 3 water moves on a water pŕokémon etc :)

Geodude
22nd May 2004, 4:07 PM
Using Thunder during an obvious Sunny Day is pretty dumb. Sunny Day either weakens Thunder or makes it less accurate, I forget which. And how did EQ miss?

'Fro-Dizzy
22nd May 2004, 6:43 PM
Earthquake never misses unless the pokemon's Accuracy has been lowered somehow, or your pokemon is holding Brightpowder.

Maester R
22nd May 2004, 8:09 PM
A Thunder attack from Groudon would actually be pretty effective against Corsola (providing it hits. 50% accuracy in Sunny Day). His base Special Attack is something like 100, which is way above average for a primary physical attacker.

And yeah, you must've been holding Brightpowder. Earthquake never misses under normal circumstances and would destroy a Corsola.

Rudoku
22nd May 2004, 9:10 PM
A Thunder attack from Groudon would actually be pretty effective against Corsola (providing it hits. 50% accuracy in Sunny Day). His base Special Attack is something like 100, which is way above average for a primary physical attacker.

And yeah, you must've been holding Brightpowder. Earthquake never misses under normal circumstances and would destroy a Corsola.

But that guy had Solarbeam. He was, no offense, an idiot. Besides, Corsola gets and extra 1.5x damage on all of it's attacks if it has the "Hustle" trait, so that wasn't as great of an example as it could've been. Now using a Relicanth, that would've been sweet.

HoundoomTrainer
26th June 2004, 5:39 PM
If anyone knows about total base stats, you'll know that Slaking's are equal to Kyogre and Groudon, so using him in a 2v2 battle and Skill-Swapping is the same as using a Groudon/Kyogre. Then, the 3 Legendary Trios have the same base stats as Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, T-Tar, Dragonite, Metagross, Salamence, and Lati@s. However, Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh and Rayquaza have the most total base stats and are absolutely cheap and are only used by untalented newbs. :S I hate Slaking though... a lot... it must die... -.-

Shemp70915
29th June 2004, 10:42 PM
Umm...isn't there another group of strategy pokemon called annoyers? Or is it filed under one of the forementioned groups? For ex.

Cacturne (King's Rock/Leppa Berry)
Sandstorm
Double Team
Faint Attack
Needle Arm

I mean, you'd use Sandstorm to use it's Sand Veil, then use Double Team to hide even better, and strike in and out of the battle, with high Evasion. Faint Attack is good if the opponent has Trace, and if you use the King's Rock, Needle Arm will most likely cause crippling.

ZoraJolteon
30th June 2004, 8:32 PM
Needle Arm will almost never get a Flinch with Cacturn's rubbish Speed. An annoyer would be something like.
Cacturn@Brightpowder
Leech Seed
Sandstorm
Toxic
Focus Punch/Destiny Bond/Protect

Shemp70915
1st July 2004, 6:26 AM
...yeah, it was a random example...but the question was if it was in one of the aforementioned groups...

.TraX.
9th July 2004, 8:36 AM
Man, ru/sa need to figure out whats an 00BER and a ledgendary, for example Zapdos is a ledgendary but nobody complains about it, mew on the other hand is quite questionable.. in GSC anyways :o

Groudon
9th July 2004, 11:58 PM
Guys, can you help me on how to beat a Rayquaza?

My brother always beats me in Pokemon Colosseum with it, I have a Swampert with Ice Beam and when it attacks Rayquaza it doesn't do much damage.

Another thing, why does Thunder miss in Colosseum during Rain Dance? My little brother was in Mt. Battle and used Thunder while having Kyogre and Rayquaza on the field. The Thunder miss two times in that battle.

Weird...

Banned
10th July 2004, 12:03 AM
Rayquaza's Air Lock negates all Weather effects. As for the Rayquaza, try using a Kingdra with Ice Beam. Kingdra's Dragon characteristics will help with Rayquaza's Dragon Moves. Also try Status moves.

Sparkling Sevirachi
10th July 2004, 12:11 AM
Earthquake never misses unless the pokemon's Accuracy has been lowered somehow, or your pokemon is holding Brightpowder.

Actually it's accruacy is 255/256, this is 99.6% so it can miss without those. Moves that can't miss have an accruacy of ---.
But if it misses you can assume the opponent is using Brightpowder.

For Dig and Fly, the only problem is that all knowledgable battlers will instantly switch to either a levitator or flyer for Dig and always some rock pokemon for Fly.
If this wasn't the case then it wouldn't quite be like 2 gusts, because for that you are receving damage for 2 turns while when digging you only receive damage for 1 turn.

Raion
10th July 2004, 1:28 AM
Using Thunder during an obvious Sunny Day is pretty dumb. Sunny Day either weakens Thunder or makes it less accurate, I forget which. And how did EQ miss?

I'm pretty sure that's wrong, because Rain Dance doesn't weaken/make Solar Beam take more time. You can only guess that it does that same for Thunder (aka keeps it normal).

Venusaur-fan!
10th July 2004, 8:47 PM
thats right, but i use strategy! strategy is the key!

f.eks:

a good moveset for dragonite:

Fire Blast- against grass, ice and bugs!
Thunder- against water, flying and psychics!
Double Team- for protecting it self!
Rain Dance- for doing so the thunder-move never misses!

Dragonite vs. Charizard:
Combo: Rain Dance, Thunder, Thunder

Dragonite vs. Venusaur:
Combo: Double Team, Fire Blast, Fireblast

Dragonite vs. Blastoise:
Combo: Rain Dance, Thunder, Thunder ;201-h; ;201-h;

Sacred
11th July 2004, 2:26 AM
I'm almost 100% sure that thunders accuracy drops to 50% when its sunny. It also does x2 damage against a pokemon that is using fly.

Brazilian Flygon
11th July 2004, 3:07 AM
I went to a tourney were almost everyone used Kyogre,except me and my friend.We lost,of course.

In another tourney ther were rules saying you could use one Legendary and no Guardians.

Sparkling Sevirachi
11th July 2004, 10:06 PM
Thunder stays the same damage just 50% accruacy.

Solar Beam takes 2 turns to charge in Rain.

Frodo, Pokemon Master
13th July 2004, 11:17 PM
Okay, I have to disagree with MANY things here.
1. Hyper Beam can take out a lot of Pokemon in one hit.
2. I don't see why two damaging moves of the same type aren't affective. In the long term, You'll run out of PP and that Pokemon will no longer be effective (although three moves of the same type can be innefective)
3. Most of the time my friends will or the AI will use power-up moves and I can make them faint in one turn.
4. Having move that aren't the same type as the Pokemon may be surprising, however they don't recieve the 1.5 attack bonus and therefore aren't as strong (for example I put Thunderbolt on Jirachi and even against a water pokemon it doesn't do much.)

Uh oh, here comes a bunch of burns aimed at me . . .
4.

Sacred
13th July 2004, 11:39 PM
Not to flame but to explain....

Okay, I have to disagree with MANY things here.
1. Hyper Beam can take out a lot of Pokemon in one hit.
Sure it might, that is MIGHT ohko a pokemon but then the opponent gets a free turn to do what they want, and if they are fast enough get in two attacks in

2. I don't see why two damaging moves of the same type aren't affective. In the long term, You'll run out of PP and that Pokemon will no longer be effective (although three moves of the same type can be innefective)
It constricts the diversity of moves that you can have..... what would you rather have on a blazekien, double kick and sky uppercut or sky uppercut and flame thrower...

3. Most of the time my friends will or the AI will use power-up moves and I can make them faint in one turn.
Are you sure your not 20 levels ahead or something, plus, I don't think that AI counts...

4. Having move that aren't the same type as the Pokemon may be surprising, however they don't recieve the 1.5 attack bonus and therefore aren't as strong (for example I put Thunderbolt on Jirachi and even against a water pokemon it doesn't do much.)
Yeah... but isn't x2 better than x1.5......

Frodo, Pokemon Master
14th July 2004, 4:38 AM
Hyper Beam:
That's true, but it's better than explosion, which seems to be a common move for some reason . . .
Two move same type:
That was really only needed where powerful moves have low PP (such as Fire Blast. I would also have Flamethrower.)

Yes, we're pretty much the same levels, I'm just able to strike fast and hard (Alakazam is good for that)

When a Pokemon faints and is being switched, why not just switch yours? It does ask. x 3.0 is better than 2.0. . .

gregjammer
26th July 2004, 1:03 AM
1. No two same-type damaging attacks on anything. It's pointless, redundant, and minimizes your options. Exceptions would be things like Endeavor, whose damage varies.

2. Recognize and appreciate the value of stat-raising and support moves such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Reflect, and so on. If you don't balance out your team with those types of moves, you'll probably get your butt kicked by a team that has them.

3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.

4. For held items, you can't go wrong with Leftovers. I realize multiple Leftovers are hard to get without trading with other games and going through the battle tower lots, so Shell Bell is an acceptable alternative. Leftovers is always the best held item, unless your Poke has Rest, in which case the usual choice is Chesto Berry, or unless your Poke knows Thief or Covet, in which case don't have it hold anything.

5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.

Feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, etc.

Does Seismic Toss count as a damage-varing move, or is it a waste of space in your moveset???

Powerful_Blaziken88
29th July 2004, 3:18 AM
Seismic toss sucks except for a tank or annoyer whom have low attack.
everyone thought seismic toss was great probably because of annimations or the name itself, which is a bad way to judge.

Geodude, Quick claw rules. I use it a lot and it helps out a lot, and those power-ups, like charcoal, are good with pokemon with a small movepool, like milotic, giving him mystic water powers up it's surf, probably one of two attacking moves on it. Let's see:
Milotic has a base stat of 100 in it's special attack, plus most sane people would have the modest nature on it, surf has 95 base power, add stab that makes 142.5, double that with rain dance (it's safe given his 125 special defense base stat meaning it would take more than a thunder to beat him) = 285, plus 10 percent from the item, which makes over 300, quite capable of destroying a lot, especially in double battle, that's 300 base power to two pokemon at once, =ouch...

Anemus
30th July 2004, 5:51 PM
I think we should also mention something about EV training: It's best to boost two stats in each pokemon and dump stats that pokemon aren't good at. It really isn't helpfull to try and make a pokemon balanced because you'll end up with no actual strainght. I mean when you train Zam you are going to boost sp. attack and speed, defenitely not deffenseses. The idea is that pokemon is all about teamwork and not roaming with a super legendary Mewtwo or Rayquaza or Groudon that can put away half a team on their own. It still requires work though even for the legendaries but it's pretty much easy. The weakness of a pokemon must be covered with another pokemon. A spiker isn't always usefull but a team must defenitely have at least one physical and one special sweeper as attack IS the essence of the game. IMO attackers are the "spine" of a team. Besides, most people think so, so it's an advantage to know how to counter this. Even with the huge increase of effectivenaess of non-damaging moves, that are put in actual use at last, this thing (attacks) hasn't change - keep that in mind. Also don't forget that even legendaries can be beaten if you know the right "buttons" to push. With experimenting you'll descover how usefull a jolteon or a milotic can be - pokemons that not many people use. EVERY POKEMON HAS A PURPOSE IN THE GAME don't forget that (well, if you find one 'bout Magicarp do let me know ;-) ). Finally a team must have at least two moves with effects like Sleep, Paralyze, Confusion or Attract. They are sure to greatly help you and make at least one opponent pokemon useless (don't forget that even lagendaries -except for the Regis- are not immune to this ). Also avoid this in psychic pokemon as Synchronize will get you (The effects on them stay though so again you might consider taking the risk).

Ferilian
1st August 2004, 8:07 AM
Hyper Beam:
That's true, but it's better than explosion, which seems to be a common move for some reason . . .
Two move same type:
That was really only needed where powerful moves have low PP (such as Fire Blast. I would also have Flamethrower.)

Yes, we're pretty much the same levels, I'm just able to strike fast and hard (Alakazam is good for that)

When a Pokemon faints and is being switched, why not just switch yours? It does ask. x 3.0 is better than 2.0. . .

Do you realize that most of this is talking about not just ingame? I could seriously beat the ingame trainers with a team of Magikarp (okay, maybe I'm exagerrating, but my point is ingame is ridiculously easy). So, out of game, without power-up moves you'll lose. You see, power up moves power up Pokemon. And if trained correctly, they shouldn't be taken out so easily while powering up. And also, being able to switch after fainting an opponent is ingame only, and that's not even applicable in Battle Tower. And besides, most skilled trainers play with set battles.

Anemus
1st August 2004, 11:28 AM
Hm, I would agree on that one. Besides, you can't use items other than held ones out of the game. That makes recovery moves realy popular. No team is fast AND strong AND fat enough to manage and sweep an entire team without recovering even once one of your pokemon. Regarding this, "Wish" rules. Also that's why many would consider using "Sand Attack" or "Smokescreen" or "Double-Team" over, say "Defense Curl" or "Mirror Coat". (Really now, do the strategies about this game ever end ???)

Storm
12th August 2004, 6:32 PM
Hm, some guy used what he calls "Tier" to show the base stats on the strongest pokemons.

Tier 1 (680 total base stats)
Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza
Tier 2 (670 total base stats)
Groudon, Kyogre, Slaking
Tier 3 (600 total base stats)
Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagros.
Tier 4 (580 total base stats)
The 3 legendary trios.

Then there is above average, average, below average and poor.
(Arcanine (555) is actually the strongest non-tier pokemon, Milotic (545) on a second place.)

The reason why I wrote this is that the use of legendaries has been discussed on this thread.
My opinion is that if you are into serious battling, you shouldn't use Tier 1 or Tier 2. You don't need skill to use those, with the exception of Slaking wich Truant ability halves it's useablenes. (You can switch it in double battles with skill switch, I know)

Tier 3 and 4 should be okay, as Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence and Metagross are breedable (so is Slaking, Metagross isn't I know but you get the point.) Deoxys is starting to get pretty powerful though, but Mew, Celebi, Jirachi and Deoxys is almoust impossible to get anyway (atleast for me.)
The trios doesn't have much higher total base stats than the strongest non-tier poke's either.

I assume the "cheapest" pokemon to use is Kyogre, as it can O.H.K.O. more than 70% of all final forms pokemon with it's opening move Spout thanks to it's Drizzle ability. Also, Spout is not inaccurate, and Kyogre misses the Flying type to make it an easy kill for Electrick poke's.

I'd say, feel okay using the a poke from one of the trios (Tier 4) or from Tier 3, but do not load your team with legendaries.

Anemus
14th August 2004, 7:39 PM
Try www.gamefaqs.com for info. You can find lots of stuff. Maybe not as much as serebii.net but it's worth a visit. Definitely.

Melko
23rd August 2004, 6:19 PM
I see what you guys are saying, but I still have a problem.

I'd like to have a team of non-legendaries, and ones with all kinds of extreme strategies, but unfortunately, my friends use mainly legendaries, and with their "all-out" attack strategy, I'm afraid I'll get creamed if I spend a turn powering-up my Poke'mon with a move instead of immediately going on the offensive as well. There are some exceptions, but I haven't been able to test it out yet.

I do take advantage of attack strategies and such, but I don't typically use moves like Toxic, Spikes (though that's a good idea), Bulk Up, etc. because I'm afraid I'll get murdered.

I try to practive against the NPC version of my friend in his secret base, it doesn't know his strategy, and I can only do this once a day.

Any suggestions?

Random Nub
23rd August 2004, 8:23 PM
Tell me his team, (With effort points if possible, or if he randomly wasted them. ) I'll do a counter team.
Shedinja is good for new people with 6 legendaries and don't know his ability.

Groundon and Kyogre are weak to a Sunnybeamer or Thunderer respectively so Chaosguttor, HPIce/Psychic/Solarbeam/Filler Exeggutor, is good, but since this is Ru/Sa you can use a Vileplume with the same set. (with a filler over Psychic) with enough speed to outspeed your oppenent's fastest legendary. My Victreebel has 298 Special Attack while a max Special Attack & Modest Vileplume has 328, and he sometimes OHKOs the Groudon. (And is useful with Sludge Bomb & 304 Attack)

If your oppenent has a Water Spout Kyogre a good, fast electric with Thunder can handle it. Manectric is suggested. But if its a Surfing Kyogre, Lanturn easily wins. (Assuming it's Surf/Calm Mind/Thunder/Ice Beam. ) You can also use Ludicolo. (Rain Dish, Leech Seed/Toxic/Protect/Surf or Giga Drain)

Rayquaza is easy as any good Ice Attack can take him out, Alakazam, Milotic maybe because of her great defenses, or Kingdra if he can survive a Dragon Claw or is faster than Rayquaza. Same with Salamence.

Weezing stops physical attacks well, and you can Will-o-Wisp the whole team if he's using them. Or if he mainly uses special attacks, try a Thunder Waver or Calm Minder to slowing them down/stopping them.When you've done with the status conditions, (there's no reliable Heal Beller to heal them in Ruby/Sapphire. ) use McDrio (Choice Band, Return/Quick Attack/Hidden Power Ground/Drill Peck) or some good, fast sweeper to finish.

Well, those are just a few ideas about countering ubers.

Anemus
25th August 2004, 5:27 PM
Ok, how 'bout this one:

Houndour (Dark/Fire)(Flash Fire or Early Bird)
Sp. At. & Speed EVs
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Bite/Crunch
Sunny Day/Roar
Will-O-Wisp/Solarbeam(only with SunnyDay)

Kingdra(Water/Dragon)(Swift Swimm)
Sorry - I don't remember ^_^'
Rain Dance
Ice Beam
Hydro Pump
Smokescreen

Venusaur(Grass/Poison)(Overgrow)
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
Sludge Bomb
Frenzy Plant

Swampert(Ground/Water)(Torrent)
Earthquake
Curse
Refresh
Brick Break/HP Flying

Metagross(Steel/Psychic)(Clear Body)
Meteor Mash
Psychic/HP Rock/Sludge Bomb
Agility
Earthquake

Dragonite(Dragon/Flying)(Inner Focus)
Dragon Dance
Aerial Ace/Fly
Earthquake/Dragon Claw
Thunder Wave

A very strong and balanced team that can work wonders and defeat virtually anything non-legendary. I used the same in the bots (with the only exception of aerodactyl instead of Dragonite) and I wiped out almost entire teams. I got unlucky though as I was tricked in no-legendaries-rule I asked and they all wiped my last pokemons with a Kyogre. It would be a good idea to replace Nite with a legendary if you don't mind since he's used only for sheer power. Also dont underestimate the power of steel bugs. They're AWSOME. Hope I helped ;-).

Melko
25th August 2004, 6:55 PM
I believe his team is:

Manectric, Aggron, Grouden, Zangoose, Blaziken and Rayquaza.

Sorry, I don't know their exact moves, stats or EV's. He has his Aggron hold Leftovers, and that's all I remember about their hold-items. He plans to switch Manectric out with Latios, but me and my other friends have advised him against this.

BTW, I've actually never lost to him, and he greatly fears my Rayquaza, but my point is that I'm trying to get a non-legendary team that can stand up to his legendary brutes. We're not bad or inexperienced battlers, we've just never necessarily bothered to create non-legendary teams because we don't have time to EV train and breed tons of Poke'mon (the most one of us has on a game time is like 160 hrs., but I only have about 97 hrs). He's not stupid and he'll murder a Shedinja in a flash. We've been playing the Poke'mon gameboy games since the beginning.

Exeguttor (I can get him because I just got an AR which I like to use to test out a bunch of things) would be good, but after Exeguttor attacked, he would be murdered by either Fire Blast, or later on it would be killed by Blaziken. If I used Exeguttor against Kyogre, Ice Beam/Blizzard would be the death of me. But I'll try Exeguttor, thanks.

About Manectric, whenever his Manectric goes against my Kai'Ooga, I use Brick Break and it's dead after only one Thunder/Thunderbolt (with my Kai'Ooga's high Sp. Def, it seriously barely hurts him). But if my friend starts to use a Kyogre, I'll try Manectric and hope he doesn't know Brick Break.

They thing is, I think he EV trained his Rayquaza in Speed, and it might even be of the Hasty Nature, because my lvl 100 Rayquaza is just barely faster than his much lower level one. But don't worry, I know to use Ice Beam against Rayquaza.

Thanks for your ideas Random Nub.

Anemus, the problem is, most of his team IS legendary. But I must definitely compliment you on your team, it's great!

spino88
25th August 2004, 7:50 PM
Back to the different ways of using pokemon (like as an annoyer, or a spong or a special sweeper), are spikers really that good? I mean the damage done by spikes isn't much, and I think a good sweeper or an annoyer would be more useful in causing damage or annoying the opponents. I think every teams hould have atleas one annoyer or a sponge. The rest can be used as various sweeper, like having Kyogre for special sweeper using water, electric and ice attacks, and a Tyrannitar as a psychical sweeper using dark, rock and ground attacks, while having Metagross a a psychical sweeper using steel, poison/ghost/rock(sludge bomb/shadow ball/rockslide) and ground (You gotta have EQ) attacks.

Anemus
27th August 2004, 12:25 PM
I myself don't use spikers but if you put all three layers of spikes allowed the damage is supposed to be good. It's also unavoidable and Spikes is well combined with Roar. I don't think it's half bad, at least it sounds so. Oh, and dark attacks are considered as special.

Random Nub
27th August 2004, 6:42 PM
I am assuming everything as level 100.

Manectric - Great, since you can use FrLg Pokes you can use Dugtrio (an Arena Trap one, of course. ) with Choice Band, Earthquake and 3 more Physical Moves. Predict Thunder/Thunderbolt, and switch to Dugtrio, Earthquake OHKOs. If your oppenent's Manectric has a +Speed Nature, you should use a Jolly Dugtrio, Adamant otherwise. Same with Aggron and Blaziken. (But switch after one of your Pokemon are Knocked Out. ) Or, if he uses Manectric, Aggron or Blaziken as a starter, start with Dugtrio.

Groudon - As long as you don't directly switch him into a Fire Blast, I believe an Exeggutor with max Special Attack EPs always OHKOs.Also Kyogre handles him easily, and Dodrio can finish him if Groudon survived a Solarbeam.

Zangoose - I suggest another Choice Bander, this time Return/Drill Peck/Quick Attack/Hidden Power Ground [Can be any good Physical HP, but HP Ground is best for other link battles. ] Dodrio. I prefer Jolly and 220 Speed EPs, 252 Attack and rest into HP. This can also deal heavy damage to Rayquaza.

Since you have Kyogre, try a Swift Swimmer - Kingdra is of course the best one. Just remember that Rayquaza blocks weather effects so better use him after Ray is Knocked Out.

Anemus
29th August 2004, 5:23 PM
Manectric SUCKS. His stats are too low. Why not using a Jolteon istead? And I'm not quite sure about this one but I think Ray blocks weather effects on him, not the opponent. Kingdra RULES !!!

Factory Head Noland
29th August 2004, 5:36 PM
I think a good team would be:

Manectric
Torkoal
Skarmory
Whiscash
Cacturne
Medicham

mlugia
29th August 2004, 5:54 PM
Back to the different ways of using pokemon (like as an annoyer, or a spong or a special sweeper), are spikers really that good? I mean the damage done by spikes isn't much, and I think a good sweeper or an annoyer would be more useful in causing damage or annoying the opponents. I think every teams hould have atleas one annoyer or a sponge. The rest can be used as various sweeper, like having Kyogre for special sweeper using water, electric and ice attacks, and a Tyrannitar as a psychical sweeper using dark, rock and ground attacks, while having Metagross a a psychical sweeper using steel, poison/ghost/rock(sludge bomb/shadow ball/rockslide) and ground (You gotta have EQ) attacks.

Spikes deal (x+1/16) damage to a pokemon per switchin, where X is the layer from 0-3. with 3 layers, you're shaving the pokemon down 1/4 of its life every single switchin, and assuming you're playing smartly, it can go something like this:

Donphan switches in
Enemy's Manetric used Tbolt! No effect!

Enemy Manetric changes to Lapras! (Lapras -25% HP)
Donphan used Quake! (uber load of damage by itself)

Donphan leaves!
Vaporeon comes in!
Lapras used Surf! Vap absorbs it!

Manetric returns for Lapras (manetric -25%)
Vaporeon used roar! Manetric leaves for ___! (___ -25%)

there's a boatload of dmg right there =/

eveelution
1st September 2004, 5:36 AM
this may have already been said, but remember: take advantage of stats while making a moveset. for example, i taught my gardievor thunderbolt, psychic, and calm mind to utilize its special attack. the only psysical move i have on it is shadow punch, just for fun. granted though, it can be useful. but wiht my swellow, its special attack is awful so i like to use physical moves on it like arieal ace, return (great if it loves you), steel wing, and attract (just cause swellows a female, and attract is best on them)

The Blaziken Master
2nd September 2004, 5:19 PM
I have Spinda and Linoone! :( Does that means I can't post my team then it's in level 100?

Emerald Eevee
3rd September 2004, 5:44 PM
About Legendary Pokémon. It sounds like your "in it to win it" since everyone talks about Ev's and "Special Sweepers" and stuff like that, the easy choice would be legendary pokémon. If you want to win, use the strongest! Although as for myself, I only have 1 legendary in my team, Latias. Legendary Pokémon seem like the way to go if you want to win, but I try to win with my favorites, regardless of type. This, of course, is only my opinion.

The Blaziken Master
3rd September 2004, 6:02 PM
I have Spinda and Linoone! :( Does that means I can't post my team then it's in level 100?

I don't want to keep this unanswered!

Anemus
4th September 2004, 9:12 AM
Legendary are sooo COOL. Especialy Mewtwo and Rayquaza are as legendary as they look (well, Mewtwo is not a legendary according to the story but you know what I mean). Battling with the Legends can be so much fun, but only if both players have some (you don't want to be on the wrong side of the power do you?). Anyway even Legends can be beaten (of course) even without a Legend of your own. Just make sure you have the right types on your team.


PS. Melko thanks for your kind words. I'll be keeping at it.

The Blaziken Master
8th September 2004, 10:34 AM
I have Spinda and Linoone! :( Does that means I can't post my team then it's in level 100?

Hello? Geodude, somebody? I do have two Normal-types in my team, isn't that allowed?

Anemus
9th September 2004, 6:30 PM
Normals aren't too much right of a choise. Well all except for Slaking, Miltank and the like. They are not effective against any type, although they are unaffected by ghosts. Still, there are better replacements for most of them. E.g. why a linoon and not an Absol?

The Blaziken Master
9th September 2004, 6:37 PM
I can't delete any from my team! I won't! Can't I post my team here?

Edit: No never, I don't like Absol, I hate it!

Anemus
11th September 2004, 6:26 PM
Sure you can post your team, why not? We might as well be able to help you, if we can with moves etc. Your Linnone, for eaxample, could make good use of "Extreme Speed". But you really shouldn't cut us off. Maybe we could suggest something better(...?) for your team. IMO Spinda and Mightyena are bad choises. Now that Absol you hate would ba just PERFECT for that place. Still, by all means and as always, your opinion is most respected.

The Blaziken Master
13th September 2004, 8:09 PM
Ok, let's make it clear to anyone:

Team isn't always based on status, you just have to know how to train them right!
I HATE Absol, Tropius is stronger IMO (if not find someone insteed of Absol, because I hate Absol)
Spinda is one of my favorite pokémon, so it won't get out of my team, and it can learn the most Psychic moves of all exist Normal types IMO
Migthyena? No, Poochyena is the first pokémon I caught, I won't realease my first pokémon.
An Elite Four had Mightyena, they only have strong pokémon, and Mightyena is strong, right?
It's my team, and I don't want anybody to suggest me to delete on of my pokémon from my team, escapply add someone I hate insteed
Don't talk more about my team, I don't want anybody to talk about it until my team has came in level 100 (I only have Pokémon Pinball R/S at the moment, :( but I will get Ruby back)
This thread isn't for team rating, find thread and disagree and agree with some pokémon there
I was only asking a question since it's answered, don't talk about my team here again!
I hope it's clear folks, if you've any suggetions about my team PM me, but I don't appect to delete bad pokémon, because status doesn't tell anything, pokémon can be good after all

I just wanted to make that clear, I hate Absol, and I don't want to talk about this! Now I know what pokémon are legal, so don't talk more about my team, ok?

Edit: Thanks, but can Linoone learn it without breeding? I won't get new Linoone with all it's move that has only one TM of in the game!

Anemus
15th September 2004, 6:47 PM
Ok... I think everyone got your point. So, from now on anything I say will NOT refer on your team. Still, I might say things you might not like. Please don't misunderstand me - they won't be just for you, I will ONLY mention them for EVERYONE as a friendly advice according to the TOPIC. I am somewhat experienced after all...
Ok, generally it's a bad idea to get an emotional obssesion with your first pokemons. Before you throw stones at me or burn me at the stake, I know EXACTLY the feeling. I felt the exact same thing on my first steps. After a long time I learned a bitter truth that's called Base Stats. These "Stats" are the base of a pokemons stats. They "reason" why a pokemon is weak or strong, in general. The highest is 255, the lowest recorded is 10 and 85 is about the average. Most of the pokemons in the begining areas of EVERY game are weak. Exceptions are the starters (With wich I am still obssesed with)
which are (more or less) average or higher on every stat. E.g. Pidgey is a classical with a most beloved (AND COOL) final form, Pidgeot. Pidgeot, being a Normal/Flying type specializes in fast and/or normal-flying attacks. They both correspond to the "Attack" stat. "Speed" is, of course, essential for that Pokemon. That poke's Base Speed is 95, which is JUST GOOD but his Attack is 80. Just so you know Raticate is faster(97) and stronger(81) and Fearow has a Speed of 100 and Attack of 90. And they both are ugly and two form Pokemons. So, don't get obssesed with your first Pokemons if you don't know what Stats are really all about. Mightyena is Dark type. Dark attacks utilize "Attack" stat. Mightyena's Base Stats (No offence Blaziken Master) are as follows:
#262/#11 - Mightyena
Type: Dark
Ability: Intimidate[Lower the opponent's attack by one stage when sent out]
Base Stats: HP: 70
Att: 90
Def: 70
Spd: 70
Sp Att: 60
Sp Def: 60
These Stats SUCK. And big time. The only good thing is its Ability (I will refer on abilities only if requested as it is a big and VERY IMPORTANT section).
Glalie (Used by that ice-user Elite woman, I think the second Elite):
#322/#172 - Glalie
Type: Ice
Ability: Inner Focus[Prevents flinching]
Base Stats: HP: 80
Att: 80
Def: 80
Spd: 80
Sp Att: 80
Sp Def: 80
Not THAT cool huh? Hell, no cool at all. It's hardly average on everything.
So, as you can see, don't think that Elites have many actually good Pokemon. Take no such thing for granted. Even Picachu and Raichu SUCK - the official Pokemon Mascot !!!!!!!! And, besides, you also need strategy to call yourself a Champion. But most importantly, you need to know your opponent. Try a tour to serebii.net's pages 'bout "Hidden Values" (Please do) and you'll see what I mean.
Wanna know COOL Pokes? Charizard, Sandslash(sort of), Ninetales, Vileplume, Dudtrio(for exp. users only), Arcanine(VERY GOOD stats-poor movepool except for Extremespeed), Alakazam(oh, YEAH!!!!!), Machamp, Tentacruel, Gyarados are only some, for the old users.
Newer ones: Sceptile, Swampert (onle one weakness!!), Ninjask(can be deadly), Shedinja(naver used one myself), Breloom (seek type coverage), Claydol, Milotic, Sharpedo, Walrein, Grumpig, Dusclops, Slaking, Gorebyss, Absol,
aggron (hard to use), Armaldo, Gardevoir, Salamence and Metagross. I will not reffer to Legends. You know why...
I think it is high time to discuss about Abilities and movepools (the moves a Pokemon can learn on their own)...

The Blaziken Master
15th September 2004, 6:52 PM
Base stats are bad, my Mightyena has better stats than the base one! But say that in my future thread, ok?

mlugia
16th September 2004, 4:39 AM
Base stats are Wild pokemon Stats at Lv 50 at Max IVs. In other words, a Max stat Mightyena has

HP: 344
Att: 279
Def: 239
Spd: 239
Sp Att: 219
Sp Def: 219

This is the Max Lv 100 stats at a Neutral Personality and Max IVs and 252 EVs in each stat. Obviously you CANT get 252 Evs in each stat, so subtract 63 from each stat and then factor the EVs afterwards, which is like, what, stupidly bad?

And when he said the average base would be around 80-85, the max stat translation is 259-269 (for all NON HP stats) and 364-374 (for HP), and take a GOOD look at how many of Mightyena's stats around even around par.

Also, to poster before BM: Dark runs off the SPECIAL attack, not the attack, making Mightyena that much worse compared to something like Houndoom.

And to refute a few of your points, Blaziken duder:

1. Team isn't always based on status, you just have to know how to train them right!
That's not true. Train 6 Magikarp right and good luck beating me with just them.

2. I HATE Absol, Tropius is stronger IMO (if not find someone insteed of Absol, because I hate Absol)
Tropius: HP:99 At:68 De:83 SpA:72 SpD:87 Spe:51
Absol: HP:65 At:130 De:60 SpA:75 SpD:60 Spe:75
Tropius, with its AVERAGE stats, has a 4x weak to ice. Absol is just... not that great IMHO, but at least it has 1 usable stat... (Tropius reminds me of a Meganium with more weaknesses)

3. Spinda is one of my favorite pokémon, so it won't get out of my team, and it can learn the most Psychic moves of all exist Normal types IMO
When are you ever going to stick 4 psychic moves on 1 pokemon? You need Psychic, and that's it. So what if Persian learns scratch and Snorlax doesn't? Same logic applies here.

5. An Elite Four had Mightyena, they only have strong pokémon, and Mightyena is strong, right?
Lol, if Elite 4 is strong, and it's inconceivable for someone to NOT be able to beat the game, then the logic there's kinda bad, isn't it? (Koga used Ariados in GSC... and uh... yeah, I think that covers it)

10. I hope it's clear folks, if you've any suggetions about my team PM me, but I don't appect to delete bad pokémon, because status doesn't tell anything, pokémon can be good after all
Only to a certain extent, that statement is true. Eg: Persian is usable, but not AS usable as other normals. But then there are instances like Caterpie, Magikarp...

The Blaziken Master
16th September 2004, 3:55 PM
Hey, didn't I already told you to NOT talk about my team in this thread! How many times should I say "Don't talk about my team here" I'm sorry about asking, you answer in way I DON'T WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop talk about my team here, talk about it in my future RMT thread, not here! I'm so angry, this is not a thread for telling what's good and bad for me! I will say once again, Don't Talk About My Team, I don't want to say it all the day, I hope you people will understand that! I'm so angry! Stop talk about my team in this thread, don't come with suggetions in this thread, don't do anything in this thread! I don't want to say it again, you didn't got it, you must get it! Got it? Hopefully, if someone talks about my team in this thread, I will get more angry because It's Not The Place!!!!!!!!!

TheSuperLapras
16th September 2004, 4:10 PM
Blaziken is good, Groudon is good, Pelipper may be used as a tank, but Linoone? Please.
Just use something like Absol or Zangoose, or maybe even Shiftry. As for Mightyena, use Houndoom. Spida should be replaced with Clefable or Blissey, if you want a Psychic-knowing normal pokemon.

The Blaziken Master
16th September 2004, 4:24 PM
How many times should I say "I won't replace any of my pokémon" and "This thread is not for that, write it in my future RMT" thread? :@

mlugia
16th September 2004, 5:18 PM
Hey, didn't I already told you to NOT talk about my team in this thread! How many times should I say "Don't talk about my team here" I'm sorry about asking, you answer in way I DON'T WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop talk about my team here, talk about it in my future RMT thread, not here! I'm so angry, this is not a thread for telling what's good and bad for me! I will say once again, Don't Talk About My Team, I don't want to say it all the day, I hope you people will understand that! I'm so angry! Stop talk about my team in this thread, don't come with suggetions in this thread, don't do anything in this thread! I don't want to say it again, you didn't got it, you must get it! Got it? Hopefully, if someone talks about my team in this thread, I will get more angry because It's Not The Place!!!!!!!!!

Talking about Mightyena isn't talking about your team. Learn to differentiate between Pokemon, and your Pokemon team please. Last I checked you weren't the only person who used Mightyena. (Though you might be one of the few who thinks it's actually usable) And while you're at it, pick up a guide to grammar/spelling, it helps.

Also, rebuttling against your claims (which I do not agree with) is not the same as criticizing your team. It's not like I said "OMG REPLACE MIGHTYENA NOW WTF HAHA YOU SUCK". I merely pointed out the errors in your conceptions of Pokemon, and that's that.

Anemus
17th September 2004, 5:38 PM
Ha, ha, ha. C'mon guys let's give Blaziken a break, ok? He is right to a point. Mlugia if he doesn't care to get better we don't have to help him. One thing, though, Blaziken Master. No offence, but you have almost no idea what this game is about. This is not the TV series where a pathetic Picachu can beat a well-trained Dragonite. If in reality a trainer came to me and even tried to put his Picachu against my Dragonite I would fry them both with a Thunder and send them flyin' to Team Rocket's star. The games DO NOT simulate the depth of the reality of the series. They just CAN'T. Some things you claim are just ridiculus. Again, no offence. None of us is going to suggest anything 'bout your team. IMO you should take advantage of our knowledge, experience and good will. Just DO pay a visit on the home site of the forums www.serebii.net. If you don't want serebii.net try www.gamefaqs.com. LEARN SOME THINGS before you attempt to post anything else, just to understand what we're talking about. I believe mlugia told you in a very nice manner (God bless his patience) some things - you should listen to him.
[Blaziken is good, Groudon is good, Pelipper may be used as a tank, but Linoone? Please.
Just use something like Absol or Zangoose, or maybe even Shiftry. As for Mightyena, use Houndoom. Spida should be replaced with Clefable or Blissey, if you want a Psychic-knowing normal pokemon.
]
Blaziken is hard to use, as is Shiftry but both are very good at stats.He most probably can not handle such hard Pokemons. Blissey is for tank purposes only. Only HP matters. Sp. Attack is only 75. Clefable is an excelent choise but still difficult for beginners. Now, that Hoondoum I LOVE. He is AWSOME, right?

Anemus
2nd October 2004, 8:04 AM
Hey, wat's up boys 'n' girls? Whare's the crowd? Doesn't ANYONE care to write? C'mon, I was intending to talk about Abilities and how they can totally change the quallity of a Pokemon...

Geodude
2nd October 2004, 9:41 AM
People will respond when they respond. That post was spam, but I'll let you off with it for now.

Blaziken's Emberz
2nd October 2004, 2:48 PM
You need to have a team that is well rounded. Yeah, the starters are okay, but only some are strong enough to fight in tournaments, like Blaziken and Venusaur. For the Water-types, Feraligatr is perfect, because its HP is very high, and Slash can dish away a lot of damage.

For some teams I'm looking at in the "wats ur dream team?" post, I commonly see this:

Deoxys
Venusaur
Charizard
Blastoise
Slowking
Exeggutor

The team will be eliminated with a Dark-type, a Flying-type, and an Electric-type. Some of their defenses are tough, like Blastoise, but come on! Why do people rely on legendaries? In Geodude's opinion, he's right because it doesn't improve skill. It increases gloating. Groudon and Kyogre are strong, I'll give you that, but I only train them separately, aside from a REAL dream team. I've seen only but a handful of posts that post a GOOD and well-rounded team, without starters or Legendaries. Some good Pokémon and their movesets are in the Pokémon of the Day/Week. Right now, I bet some people are already heading for the Legendaries. That's not good.

A good team of note is a team that can learn a versatility of attacks, not just one type in particular. The perfect team can be this, as seen in "The Ultimate Team" Banner by Wynaut Pikachu.

Rhydon
Houndoom
Espeon
Kingdra
Manectric
Bellossom

Each Pokémon focuses on the weakness of another. And there are absolutely no Legendaries. The rules for building a team state that using more than half dual-types are a negative thing, rather than a positive. My team isn't over half. It is half. I hope my explanation worked, guys.

~ PMD

Squirtle
2nd October 2004, 4:34 PM
The rules for building a team state that using more than half dual-types are a negative thing, rather than a positive. My team isn't over half. It is half.

I'm sorry but i fail to see what difference it makes having more dual types as oppossed to single types... sure some dual types have 4x weaknesses but the generally tend to have 4x resistances as well, and the majority of dual types have one weakness covered up but replaced with another (Nidoking/queen is a good example), and having a dual type means double the STAB oppourtunity (again Nidoking/queen are good examples), and yes i know that is not always the case with double STAB (a la Sneasel).

Am i missing something? If so please fill me in here...

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
2nd October 2004, 5:49 PM
It's fine to use a whole team of Dual Types. Here, I will give you an example now. Metagross, Salamence, Breloom, Swampert, Starmie, Gengar. Whoever said that kind of a rule needs to be shot ;098;

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
2nd October 2004, 5:55 PM
A good team of note is a team that can learn a versatility of attacks, not just one type in particular. The perfect team can be this, as seen in "The Ultimate Team" Banner by Wynaut Pikachu.

Rhydon
Houndoom
Espeon
Kingdra
Manectric
Bellossom

Each Pokémon focuses on the weakness of another. And there are absolutely no Legendaries. The rules for building a team state that using more than half dual-types are a negative thing, rather than a positive. My team isn't over half. It is half. I hope my explanation worked, guys.

~ PMD

ok well first let me let you know that in the competitive world, Raikou/Suicune/Entei/etc are not shunned at all. There is no shame in using legendaries. Whoever said that here obviously has no clue how things work.

Second of all, that team is very far from perfect. In fact, in borders more on "bad." Sure, you have coverage of random types, but you don't have coverage of methods of attack. How does that team stop Heracross? Raikou? Suicune? My Snorlax? (Curse/Counter/Return/Rest) Blissey? It's overwhelmed with Special attackers and is Snorlax/Regice/Blissey bait. Not to mention even after a Swords Dance, Rhydon cannot OHKO Blissey. You have no Fighting resist at all. You can't switch Espeon into a fighting attack. It has pathetic defense, and one simple prediction from Heracross/Medicham using Sub/Megahorn/Shadow Ball/etc and your whole team goes down the drain.

~ ascalon

shinchikudou
3rd October 2004, 4:21 AM
aerodactyl rips that team apart, as well.

Blaziken's Emberz
3rd October 2004, 3:35 PM
Yeah, but you don't know their attacks, so you can't defeat them with just type.

mlugia
3rd October 2004, 5:54 PM
no, but Aerodactyl really can rip that team apart...

Anemus
3rd October 2004, 8:00 PM
People will respond when they respond. That post was spam, but I'll let you off with it for now.
Oh, ummm, sorry. Won't do it again...
Well the Dogs are good. They ARE Legends after all. And they all have Pressure, an excelent ability for competitive game that forces the opponents (if they want to win, that is) to play straight for weakness.
Raikou is very fast and has excelent Special stats, he's a "Special King". For special-users he is a gift from heaven.
Suicune has excelent defences (both at 115 base), very good HP, average speed and usable Sp. Attack.
Entei sucks. Though a fire type, his Sp. Attack is merely 90. Now, he does have speed but lacks defences. For that, he has high HP. He can't make good use of STABs.
All the dogs have small movepool. However only Entei is harmed from that.

Anyway, a MUST when making a team is STAB. Personally, I make 100% use of that always so I might be a little prejudiced. I can't do without it. IMO for actually competitive teams STAB is the spine for picking a pokemon amongst others of same types. With STAB you have x1.5 to the correspodent stat when using the move.


There is nothing wrong with using dual types. In fact, I almost never use one-type Pokemons. Except for Psychic ones where mono-types are the only way (nothing beats Alakazam aor Mewtwo, right?). One must be carefull when chosing dual types for covering weaknesses and such. When one type is weak against the other it doesn't mean that resistance is neutral. The type must be resistant to the other one for a neutral resistance overall. I stepped on that one when I chose Aerodactyle, thinking that being
Rock-type would eliminate Flying's weakness to that. WRONG. Rock-type Pokemons are NOT resistant to it (He,he I got wiped out at the bots for that mistake). Excelent examples of succesful dual-type Pokemons are Kingdra (Water/Dragon) and Swampert(Water/Ground). Both very resistant to almost everything. Swampert can easily die by Grass ones though...

I want to stretch out the importance of Abilities. Butterfree, for example, has poor stats. But his Ability "CompoundEyes" (raises accuracy) make it really... funcional. With it, moves with accuracy of 85+ are executed with accuracy of 100%.And it puts it to good use with its powders and spores (just Batton Pass it some speed to go first and you can emmediatly Sleep Spore the enemy). Groudon and Kyogre have unique abilities that make them almost perfect. Kyogres' water moves can destroy nearly any simple pokemon with or without resistance. Now, Groudon becomes more versatile with Drought. He can't use STAB on fire so Drought enables a strong fire move to be really useful. Not to mention Sollarbeam. Talk 'bout type coverage! Still, Earthquake remains his most lethal weapon. With a base Attack of 150 and STAB things get very simple. Fly or Die.
Well, that's for now... If you wish, I can post a complete list of types resistances and weaknesses. Just tell me so. Or e-mail me...

Spree
4th October 2004, 12:03 AM
^waves sheepishly^ I'm a bit intimidated by all these intellectually superior peoples... but...

I was considering making an "unorthodox" team, basically, making a team that doesn't have commonly used Pokemon. I only battle in-game and against my friends (who don't bother with EV's that much but -I think- are better than to rely fully on legendaries), so they wouldn't have to be uber-ish... I hope everyone understood that. I'd like it to encompass Pokemon I like, and a rough idea would be (no movesets or anything else like that thought of yet):

Spinda (I'm aware that it, well, sorta sucks. But I can't resist the way it moves in Colo. ^-^')
Girafarig (It's a good batonpasser, isn't it?)
Ampharos (^points to sig and avy^ Serious Ampharos fixation here.)
Butterfree (maybe...)
Grumpig (It's spiffy. o.O')
Absol (Absol fixation.)

Any suggestions, or possible ideas for improvement? I promise not to chew you out if you suggest something I don't like. ^-^; Er; feel free to replace Butterfree. If you need to know, I own Lg and Sapphire.

Blaziken's Emberz
4th October 2004, 10:03 PM
ok well first let me let you know that in the competitive world, Raikou/Suicune/Entei/etc are not shunned at all. There is no shame in using legendaries. Whoever said that here obviously has no clue how things work.

Second of all, that team is very far from perfect. In fact, in borders more on "bad." Sure, you have coverage of random types, but you don't have coverage of methods of attack. How does that team stop Heracross? Raikou? Suicune? My Snorlax? (Curse/Counter/Return/Rest) Blissey? It's overwhelmed with Special attackers and is Snorlax/Regice/Blissey bait. Not to mention even after a Swords Dance, Rhydon cannot OHKO Blissey. You have no Fighting resist at all. You can't switch Espeon into a fighting attack. It has pathetic defense, and one simple prediction from Heracross/Medicham using Sub/Megahorn/Shadow Ball/etc and your whole team goes down the drain.

~ ascalon
Snorlax - Rhydon's tough Defenses can whittle away all of Snorlax's HP with a Megahorns or something. It doesn't matter. Raikou, same thing. A few Earthquakes can eliminate it. Strike that - just ONE. Suicune with Manectric, Bellossom, or even a few Normal attacks. Blissey stinks with Defenses. Its Special Defense is okay, but still a little bad. Although there are super combos, sometimes a big team with a versatility of attacks is all one needs to eliminate mega-teams.

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
4th October 2004, 11:09 PM
Snorlax - Rhydon's tough Defenses can whittle away all of Snorlax's HP with a Megahorns or something. It doesn't matter. Raikou, same thing. A few Earthquakes can eliminate it. Strike that - just ONE. Suicune with Manectric, Bellossom, or even a few Normal attacks. Blissey stinks with Defenses. Its Special Defense is okay, but still a little bad. Although there are super combos, sometimes a big team with a versatility of attacks is all one needs to eliminate mega-teams.

You.. you are kidding right? Rhydon cannot take on Raikou; 1on1 or with a switch in. Blissey's defense is actually quite remarkable; You have obviously never fought one with proper evs. After 1 calm mind, Manectric will do bs to suicune. Not to mention if I happen to get more than 1 and just rest off the pathetic damage manectric does. Either way, most standard teams would decimate that one into the ground because of its poor choice of pokemon and lack of physical offense or special sponging. If you ever want me to prove it, fight me some day.

Luna Lovegood
4th October 2004, 11:19 PM
Snorlax - Rhydon's tough Defenses can whittle away all of Snorlax's HP with a Megahorns or something. It doesn't matter. Raikou, same thing. A few Earthquakes can eliminate it. Strike that - just ONE. Suicune with Manectric, Bellossom, or even a few Normal attacks. Blissey stinks with Defenses. Its Special Defense is okay, but still a little bad. Although there are super combos, sometimes a big team with a versatility of attacks is all one needs to eliminate mega-teams.

Er... where to begin...

You just mentioned Rhydon would whittle Snorlax's HP away with Megahorn. Last I checked Megahorn is a physical move and can be countered.

Suicune would tear through Manectric (it's really bad people, you should stop using it. Magneton does a far better job and Magneton is far from the best) and Bellossom. If you want a grass type that can harm/stall Suicune in any way, it has to be something with Leech Seed and defenses, like Venusaur. Bellossom and Manectric are just not cut out for the big leagues.

Blissey can EASILY withstand Physical onslaughts with proper EV's. Mine could be higher in defense and it still will take only 60% from a Choice Band Aerodactyl's Rock Slide. Then I use Thunder Wave and paralyze it while it's RSing me, or I just switch out if they thankfully decided to be foolish and switch it into Para. I realize we're not talking about Aerodactyl, but that's an example of a really heavy attacker.

Rhydon is no different, in fact it's worse than dealing with Blissey. Blissey's usually have Ice Beam, Seismic Toss or Counter. Ice Beam is straight forward, Rhydon has no chance. Rhydon can even survive a Swords danced EQ from Rhydon, so counter will eat it alive. Mine has Seismic Toss, and I would imagine that you'd plan on switching Rhydon in to face it. You might absorb a T-wave the first turn and then I'll switch it out, but every time after that you'll be eating a Seismic Toss while Blissey has no damage done to it. How can you survive that?

The sure fire ways of taking down Blissey are cursed, Dragon Dance'd or swords danced attacks, otherwise don't bother. Even if the Blissey had a move like Toxic, then your Rhydon is now Toxic'd and since I doubt your team up there had a Heal Beller, it's going to slowly die.

Phaedra
4th October 2004, 11:27 PM
Last I checked, Thunder Wave doesn't affect Rhydon. Ground-type, remember?

EDIT: Unless I'm misinterpreting that sentence... feel free to correct me.

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
4th October 2004, 11:32 PM
lol

you are

Luna Lovegood
4th October 2004, 11:33 PM
Yes, yes you are. Absorbed. Means taking it in. No effect. Nothing.

shinchikudou
5th October 2004, 4:05 AM
I think we have a winner, Pokemon Master Danny! :-)

Blaziken's Emberz
5th October 2004, 10:07 PM
Magneton is slow. Rhydon can eliminate with one Earthquake. And since it's a Steel-type, it will lose 12x the amount! That's right, 12x!

Oh, and shin, it's DENNY!

shinchikudou
5th October 2004, 11:15 PM
yes I just noticed that moments ago we all make mistakes :-(

Luna Lovegood
6th October 2004, 1:36 AM
Magneton is slow. Rhydon can eliminate with one Earthquake. And since it's a Steel-type, it will lose 12x the amount! That's right, 12x!

Oh, and shin, it's DENNY!

lol what the. You mean it'll be 4x effective, not 12x.

shinchikudou
6th October 2004, 4:46 AM
12x lol. ;091;

mlugia
6th October 2004, 7:14 AM
lol when did Rhydon become fast ._.

Blaziken's Emberz
6th October 2004, 10:09 PM
2x against Electric-types
2x against Steel-types
1.5x coming from a Ground-type
2x Critical Hit

If you all know your multiplication tables, 2 * 2 * 1.5 * 2 = 12

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
6th October 2004, 10:12 PM
lol critical hit

shinchikudou
6th October 2004, 11:12 PM
okay critical hit is a random factor sir. :[

mlugia
7th October 2004, 12:20 AM
XD Crit hit, it's like saying Rhydon is useless against Magneton if it has that brightpowder cuz miss = 0 and therefore earthquake deals no damage to Magneton and Magneton therefore wins.

Blaziken's Emberz
8th October 2004, 12:01 AM
How? It can't learn any ground-crushing moves!

mlugia
8th October 2004, 12:30 AM
Well if rhydon isn't gonna KO it, it's just going to Screech and Return Rhydon to death, since Rhydon's Earthquake would miss due to BRightpowder, going by your logic.

Otherwise, HP water isnt that uncommon on Maggy.

Anemus
9th October 2004, 6:16 PM
Well, anyway, Rhydon is strong. With a base Attack of 130 and Defence of 120 he defenitely is not something to laugh at. Not to forget his 105 base HP. BUT his everything else SUCK. Speed at 40, Sp. At. 45 (well doesn't really need it), Sp. Def. 45. However. a friend of mine managed to kill a Venusaur with a Quick-Claw-Fireblast combo with a critical hit. He is right beside me and says that it's good to learn Irontail. The answer to this fearsome Pokemon is -what else- a special sweeper. Really, he can be MURDERERD by grass Pokemons. It is a really good idea to Batton Pass him some speed (Ninjask maybe ?). You can also use something with Levitate ability (eg. Gengar with Confuseray and Curse) against him.
Now, for our good friend, Spree:
Spinda does suck. Everything is far below average (all his stats are 60).
Girafarig is poor. Low defences (both at 65) and low staying power. It's better off as special sweeper with his 90 Sp. Attack.
Ampharos is not very bad. It has 115 Sp. At. wich is pretty good for an electric pokemon. Still, it's low (55 base). Make it a Thunderdancer (Rain Dance - Thunder).
Butterfree is good as I wrote before due to Compound Eyes. Just stuff it with powders and spores. Try a classical Sleep Powder - Solarebeam combo. Oh, and don't use poison spore EVER. It's better to generally teach your cuties Toxic. You are free to teach and a low accuracy move since accuracy rises for this Pokemon.
Grumpig is good.
Ability: Own Tempo[Prevents Confusion]
Thick Fat[Halves Fire and Ice type damage]
HP: 80
Att: 45
Def: 65
Spd: 80
Sp Att: 90
Sp Def: 110
Teach it something smart and Rock!!!
Absol is excellent but hard for beginners. With Pressure it's pushy. With 130 base attack it's dangerous. With a Swords Dance and something Dark it's deadly. However, with 60 base Def. and Sp. Def. it's dead :-). Good Luck with this one.

Blaziken's Emberz
9th October 2004, 6:43 PM
I choose my team. And I say my team is perfect this way. Okay?

Anemus
10th October 2004, 10:42 AM
Manectric sucks. His stats are pathetic. Why not try a Jolteon instead???

Blaziken's Emberz
10th October 2004, 9:07 PM
Jolteon is too weaker in some cases.

Mondo
10th October 2004, 10:59 PM
Dark moves are special right? First reason I don't use Absol, low special attack. Second reason: Pressure; sucks. It's great on some pokemon, but on something that dies so quickly, it's useless. Third reason...?...there isn't one, but the first two were enough.

On the plus side, Absol is pretty sexy.

Anemus
12th October 2004, 4:48 PM
Jolteon is too weaker in some cases.
Manectric
Type: Electric
Ability: Static[30% chance of paralyze on contact]
Lightningrod[All electric attacks come to this Pokemon]
Base Stats: HP: 70
Att: 75
Def: 60
Spd: 105
Sp Att: 105
Sp Def: 60
Jolteon
Type: Electric
Ability: Volt Absorb[Absorbs electric attacks]
Base Stats: HP: 65
Att: 65
Def: 60
Spd: 130
Sp Att: 110
Sp Def: 95

Manectric has Slightly better HP and better Attack. So what? You can't allow neither one to get hit. Manectric +5 HP aren't great at all. And both their Attacks are pathetic, they can't, shouldn't and there is no point in using them. Special attacks is the way to go here and Jolteon is faster (meaning it has more chances to succeed in wiping the opponent's *** first AND getting away from his/hers :-) ) and somewhat stronger (though not really much [+5]) . And Jolty has far better and decent Sp. Def.
In Abilities, though, Manectric IS better. Static is good and Lightningrod can be even greater with a nice 2vs2 strategy. No one would use electric attacks on a Jolteon anyway...
Abilities are not enough on their own if stats don't help. The only thing a cannot say anything about is their movepool (I haven't used a Manectric extensively). Still, Jolteon has OK moves.

/ Dark moves are special right? First reason I don't use Absol, low special attack. Second reason: Pressure; sucks. It's great on some pokemon, but on something that dies so quickly, it's useless. Third reason...?...there isn't one, but the first two were enough.

On the plus side, Absol is pretty sexy. /
Well Absol does have a base Attack of 130 so he could be a good physical sweeper. But he is very hard to use with pathetic deffenses (60) and a speed of 75. Yap, he's hard 'n' sexy I give him that. I think that it's best to take him out of his ball in an already worn out Pokemon. There, with Pressure, he would devastate the opponent's fate. I dunno, maybe I am too much attached to his COOL (and SEXY?) looks...

Dragon Master453
13th October 2004, 9:20 AM
either way, who cares? jolteon and manectric are virtually the same in stats and moves are fine with me in either case

mlugia
13th October 2004, 4:45 PM
Who cares? Apparently Pokemon Master Denney and us, since he proclaims Jolteon and Manetric about equal, when Manetric doesn't stand a ghost of a chance against Jolteon's capabilities in the metagame.

Anemus
16th October 2004, 8:32 AM
Without claiming to be a Jolteon obssesed fun, IT DOES MATTER. Such differences are crucial to a competitive game. Try the bots and you will see why I am making so much fuss about such details. Jolteon IS better in all but Abilities. So, you use a Manectric and and I a Jolteon in the same enemy. Manectric is gonna get wiped out most probably even before 2-3 turns. Jolteon will last another 1-2 AND will beat more crap out of it. Please be more carefull with such info or it's lights out for your Pokemon. (Jolteon beats Manectric in cuteness too ;-) )

Blaziken's Emberz
16th October 2004, 7:33 PM
I'll just choose my team, and pretend this argument never existed.

Shiloh Phoenix
16th October 2004, 8:35 PM
*sigh* Denny, you should listen to them. Jolteon IS better than manectric. You could even go all out and use raikou. You want a spl. sweeper right?

mlugia
16th October 2004, 10:53 PM
lol, this argument did exist because you choosing your own team is fine, but when you're giving other ppl bad advice, others will end up stepping in.

Anemus
17th October 2004, 7:32 AM
Sigh, why are you people so OBSESSED with your own attitude? Jeesus, this is an advise thread. If you don't care for advices and just spit all the hard work and thinking and battery power we have spent in experimenting and learning on our face maybe you should get the hell out of this forum. What was the guy thinking "I'll just pretend this argument never existed". Well, it DID. And you SUCK. Even worse than Manectric. If you are so stuck up and think we are useless or something why are you posting on this thread? Just to be a smart-***? And then you expect us to trust you? Or even respect you? Man, you are pathetic. Say we ditch 'im. I do challenge you to a bot battle though. Blue Heaven. Tomorrow. Set the time. Right now it's 8.30 am Greece time.

mlugia
17th October 2004, 5:27 PM
oo, Netbattle battle? What name do you go by on NB?

On a side note so I don't go off topic,

Speed is often more useful than power, as seem in such pokemon as Aerodactyl (Jolly over Adamant) and Alakazam (Timid over Modest quite often)

ZoraJolteon
17th October 2004, 5:28 PM
If an Aerodactyl can outrun a Jolteon, it gets the OHKO, and vice versa. The both have the same base Speed, so nature is the deciding factor.

Sergay Wang
17th October 2004, 6:10 PM
Technically, Natures, IVs, and Effort.

Rudoku
17th October 2004, 8:37 PM
Technically, Natures, IVs, and Effort.
You forgot the most important: Luck. Because getting a max Speed Jolteon and/or Aerodactyl isn't the hardest thing to do, even ingame(and come Emerald, getting a Jolly/Timid one won't be that hard, either).

Anemus
18th October 2004, 6:50 AM
mlugia, I'm going as Anemus. You? Nicely said guys. Still, Luck is so untouchable.
Off topic - My first notes of Pokemons and their moves were erased. So I had to spent so much time yesterday refinding my 6 "precius ones" and their moves. What a drug... Still, it got ok but surprisingly I got my *** kicked (-_-')at NB. Man, not a good day for my self estimation...

Meta Meta Meta CHUUU
21st October 2004, 3:41 AM
i never lose on the internet

Anemus
21st October 2004, 8:39 AM
Gee, are you that good? Hmph, I'm gonna get better...:-)

luckyharison
24th October 2004, 9:21 AM
I like it very creative

Anemus
26th October 2004, 11:51 AM
I like it very creative
What do you mean?

lime_green_hero
4th November 2004, 4:09 AM
1. No two same-type damaging attacks on anything. It's pointless, redundant, and minimizes your options. Exceptions would be things like Endeavor, whose damage varies.

2. Recognize and appreciate the value of stat-raising and support moves such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Reflect, and so on. If you don't balance out your team with those types of moves, you'll probably get your butt kicked by a team that has them.

3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.

4. For held items, you can't go wrong with Leftovers. I realize multiple Leftovers are hard to get without trading with other games and going through the battle tower lots, so Shell Bell is an acceptable alternative. Leftovers is always the best held item, unless your Poke has Rest, in which case the usual choice is Chesto Berry, or unless your Poke knows Thief or Covet, in which case don't have it hold anything.

5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.
Feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, etc.



ok, i would like to say that you're saying that just because someone uses ledgendarys, they have no skill? i found the move sets for my ledgendarys through exparament and expirience. i've battled people with more than i have and never lost to them! anyone could get on the internet and find a recipe for curselax, counterbliss, or any other non-uber, and your saying those people are more talented than me?!!?

Lyu
6th November 2004, 11:09 AM
ok, i would like to say that you're saying that just because someone uses ledgendarys, they have no skill? i found the move sets for my ledgendarys through exparament and expirience. i've battled people with more than i have and never lost to them! anyone could get on the internet and find a recipe for curselax, counterbliss, or any other non-uber, and your saying those people are more talented than me?!!?

he's saying that it's easier to use a legendary just think of it, you catch ot at lv 40-50 or 70.Now if you use regular ones you have a long way of training until you get them at those levels.And yes, it requires more skills to train a charmander from lv 5 to a lv 100 Charizard then to train a LV70 Mewtwo to LV100.

mlugia
6th November 2004, 6:13 PM
Anyone can go online and get a good moveset for a legendary... Point being?

Anemus
6th November 2004, 6:39 PM
I think that you have got it all wrong. Sure it's easy to train a Lv 70 Mewtwo to Lv 100. Still, that doesn't make you less skilled. And besides, when on the Net how can you know who you do have on the other side of the line? My point is, don't just judge people badly because they say the have trained Legends. They DO may be skilled. The only way you can make an opinion about someone is by battling him/her. And if you are talking 'bout EV training it just gets from reaeaealllyyy exausting (when starting a Lv 5 Pokemon) to just really tiring (when starting a Lv, say, 70 Pokemon). The experience of the player earned from computer battles that way is minimum compared to actuall battles with living guys. And we ARE talking about real battles, right...? Otherwise it's pointless judging since we are never gonna see the person... in person ;-).

ProJr
9th November 2004, 6:54 AM
How do you people feel about using the movesets suggested by Serebii.net's Pokemon of the Week/Day? I generally don't like doing this because it makes me feel like I'm cheating, but on some Pokemon I use these movesets because I can't think of a better one. I know some people who think I should use the exact same movesets, hold items, natures, and EVs suggested by Pokemon of the Week/Day on all of my Pokemon. However, doing that just seems kind of cheap and morally wrong to me.

What does everyone here think?


(Sorry for posting this here but for some reason I can't make new threads and this seemed like the next best place.)

Luna Lovegood
9th November 2004, 10:48 AM
How do you people feel about using the movesets suggested by Serebii.net's Pokemon of the Week/Day? I generally don't like doing this because it makes me feel like I'm cheating, but on some Pokemon I use these movesets because I can't think of a better one. I know some people who think I should use the exact same movesets, hold items, natures, and EVs suggested by Pokemon of the Week/Day on all of my Pokemon. However, doing that just seems kind of cheap and morally wrong to me.

What does everyone here think?


(Sorry for posting this here but for some reason I can't make new threads and this seemed like the next best place.)

They're horrible. Let SPP work on their Anime/Game Release info and not try to make competitive battling sets.

HoundoomTrainer
11th November 2004, 5:08 AM
How do you people feel about using the movesets suggested by Serebii.net's Pokemon of the Week/Day? I generally don't like doing this because it makes me feel like I'm cheating, but on some Pokemon I use these movesets because I can't think of a better one. I know some people who think I should use the exact same movesets, hold items, natures, and EVs suggested by Pokemon of the Week/Day on all of my Pokemon. However, doing that just seems kind of cheap and morally wrong to me.

What does everyone here think?


(Sorry for posting this here but for some reason I can't make new threads and this seemed like the next best place.)

No, go ahead an use em, they suck anyway.

:)

-HT ;229;

Powerful_Blaziken88
13th November 2004, 6:10 AM
I don't like the PoTD/PoTW movesets much save for a few. They made fun of mewtwo and stuff like that.

P.S. They did make fun of Mewtwo, on my birthday! Shadow Blacky's goin down! XD

Anemus
13th November 2004, 8:30 AM
Curse and condemnation to all who dare to make fun of the Divine Mewtwo. I say we offer them to a sacrifice to ease the angry spirit of the Divine messenger of Death :D. May they all BURN to PokeHell !!!!! :D

Luna Lovegood
17th November 2004, 2:26 AM
I say shut up because Mewtwo is one of the worst oobers in RS and thus it deserves to be made fun of.

Microsoft Umbreon
17th November 2004, 2:28 AM
Mewtwo is still good Skarm but Kyogre, Groudon and Deoxys-F make it look really bad. :(

Luna Lovegood
17th November 2004, 2:38 AM
Do not forget Deoxys-L

Anemus
18th November 2004, 1:09 PM
First of all, I don't shut up for my opinions. If you don't like other people saying things you do not agree with, you may kick your butt out of this forum (and hopefully have some manner classes) :-). Now, why is Mewtwo "one of the worst oobers"? What do you mean, that he's weak amongst the best or that he's too strong? And how is it that Kyogre, Groudon and Deoxys-F make it look bad?????? Just so you know, Mewtwo is in the higher Tier list along with Lugia, Ho-oh and Rayquaza (with 680 base total). Kyogre and Groudon are in the next strongest category (670 base total) and Deoxys is in the 3rd list with 600 base total.

#150 - Mewtwo
Type: Psychic
Ability: Pressure[Doubles PP cost]
Base Stats: HP: 106
Att: 110
Def: 90
Spd: 130
Sp Att: 154
Sp Def: 90

#379/#198 - Kyogre
Type: Water
Ability: Drizzle[Infinite rain]
Base Stats: HP: 100
Att: 100
Def: 90
Spd: 90
Sp Att: 150
Sp Def: 140
So, how exactly is Kyogre better? Sure he has a 150 Sp. At. and Mewtwo 90 Sp. Def. BUT Mewtwo is a lot faster. He can pound Kyogre's Defense (although no-one teaches physical move on Mewtwo). Still, using his Sub.-C.M.-Psychic-Rec. combo Mewtwo would eliminate him.

#380/#199 - Groudon
Type: Ground
Ability: Drought[Infinite sunshine.]
Base Stats: HP: 100
Att: 150
Def: 140
Spd: 90
Sp Att: 100
Sp Def: 90
Mewtwo is, again, faster. And Kyogre's Sp. Def. is pathetic in front of 150 Sp. At. Sub. and sweep away.1-2-3 easy.

#385/#202 - Deoxys(RS)
Type: Psychic
Ability: Pressure[Doubles PP usage]
Ruby/Sapphire:
===================
Base Stats: HP: 50
Att: 150
Def: 50
Spd: 150
Sp Att: 150
Sp Def: 50
Fire Red:
===================
Base Stats: HP: 50
Att: 180
Def: 20
Spd: 150
Sp Att: 180
Sp Def: 20
Leaf Green:
===================
Base Stats: HP: 50
Att: 70
Def: 160
Spd: 90
Sp Att: 70
Sp Def: 160
RS Deoxys is not much with such defenses.
F-R Deoxys is the strongest Pokemon in the world of Nintedo in terms of attack. But, cm'on now, lokk at those defenses!!!! One hit and he's dead. D-E-A-D.
L-G Deoxys has strong defensesand good speed, but his attack stats do not pose much of a threat to Mewtwo (or any strong Pokemon).
So, the only actually dangerous occasion is F-R Deoxys with more speed. Ok, that would be hard for Mewtwo but one hit is not enough to KO him. Well, not unless it's a Dark or Ghost attack (not to mention Deox.'s unique Psycho Boost (180) attack - the most catastrophic Psychic move despite it's price). Still, every Deoxys' HP is PATHETIC.
So, the moral is... Mewtwo remains DIVINE. AND Coolest. He and Rayquaza. Hail to the two Gods Of Destruction.:-)

These aside, let's talk about Deoxys. I'm listening to opinions regarding movesets, natures, EV etc.

mlugia
18th November 2004, 4:06 PM
FR Deoxys don't need defenses when it can OHKO most things...

Microsoft Umbreon
18th November 2004, 10:03 PM
Both Kyogre and Groudon have better defenses than Mewtwo does and their traits are much better than Mewtwo's. You won't even get a chance to attack Deoxys-FR, as it will OHKO you. Oh wow! Ninjask is a counter! You can't switch it in and I can switch out to Skarmory or such.

Anemus
26th November 2004, 12:34 PM
F-R Deoxys can OHKO most things with lower speed. If Mewtwo attacks first Deoxys is dead. Now, how can we make this happen? Well, how can you make a lower-speed pokemon attack first? That's what we call strategy... And in any way Ok, so Mewtwo dies in front of him, so what? You are an idiot if you think that just because Mewtwo loses easily to just one Pokemon (that so happens to be the strongest in the entire game) makes him suck!!! What if I take a Houndoum out? Do you have the brains to teach Deoxys other moves than Psychic ones? And if I use another Legend? One of the Regis for example. Or Kyogre, Groudon. And, besides, can you imagine Deoxys being inflicted by a course? Or by "Intimidate"?Or even by Will-Of-Wisp? There are ways of disposing a Pokemon without using sheer power.
Generally, just defenses won't make your pokemon better than another. You gotta look to the whole set. So what if Kyogre and Groudon have better Defenses? Can they cover for Mewtwo's 154 Sp. attack, Sub. and Calm Mind? Each time you replace the sub. it is gonna be stronger due to CM. and Mewtwo will have higher Sp. Att. It does reach the point where one or two attacks are enough to KO the oppnent. Do you want to know why is it that so many people like Mewtwo?
a) Mewtwo has an excelent set of stats that allows you to be offensive without worrying too much about defenses.
b) He learns a wonderfull set of moves. He can even learn Bulk Up, F. Blast, Foc. Punch and a lot more, powerfull moves.
c) He looks so darn cool and untouchable (even better than James Bond!).
d) He has a very cool story in the anime.
As you can see he has eveything. So, no matter what you say Mewtwo was the first divine Pokemon and will stay just as beloved whatever it happens(sniff).

Rudoku
26th November 2004, 4:20 PM
Oh wow! Ninjask is a counter! You can't switch it in and I can switch out to Skarmory or such.
Don't forget: Emerald Deoxys learns Extreme Speed. If a non Choice Band Dodrio can 3-4 hit KO a Ninjask with Quick attack, I expect on 1 Hit KO from FR Deoxys ES.


So, the moral is... Mewtwo remains DIVINE. AND Coolest. He and Rayquaza. Hail to the two Gods Of Destruction
Shut up. Lugia still makes Mewtwo cry almost as much as Blissey does (maybe even more).

Anemus
28th November 2004, 9:10 AM
Why would Blissey make Mewtwo cry???? Do you mean a set of moves ??

PhazonElite
28th November 2004, 9:28 AM
Why would Blissey make Mewtwo cry???? Do you mean a set of moves ??
Blissey has this thing called insane HP and special defense.

mlugia
28th November 2004, 7:35 PM
And no, counter ruins any of your ideas about physically owning that pink ball.

Kingler
28th November 2004, 8:24 PM
Ok.. Blissey is ruler. It can pwn Mewtwo in a heartbeat. Listen, base stat for HP is 255!! That means a max of 714 HP!! That is un-heard of!! Also, give it EQ and it will pwn Mewtwo's Defenses.

Blissey@Chesto Berry
-Rest
-EQ
-Light Screen
-Toxic

Come on now.. how could that thing NOT pwn Mewtwo? Chesto/Rest combo, EQ for "low" defenses, Light Screen to BOOST amazing SD, and Toxic for a Tank combination.

Gahlo_Wake
28th November 2004, 10:43 PM
why LG deoxys can mop the floor with mewtwo

step 1: cosmic power(or watever it was that raises defences)
step 2:NIGHT SHADE(crappy attk stats dont mater when set damage is on your side)
step 3:repeat 1 and 2, use recover if needed

i dont use the stat berries because i dont know how much they boost. is it one level?

Icicle_knight
29th November 2004, 2:09 AM
Ok.. Blissey is ruler. It can pwn Mewtwo in a heartbeat. Listen, base stat for HP is 255!! That means a max of 714 HP!! That is un-heard of!! Also, give it EQ and it will pwn Mewtwo's Defenses.

Blissey@Chesto Berry
-Rest
-EQ
-Light Screen
-Toxic

Come on now.. how could that thing NOT pwn Mewtwo? Chesto/Rest combo, EQ for "low" defenses, Light Screen to BOOST amazing SD, and Toxic for a Tank combination.
I SERIOUSLY hope you're joking for putting a physical attack on a thing who has 5 or 10 base attack.
;215;

EDIT:yes, Gahlo, the berries raise one of your stats one level, or by 50%.
;215;

little britain
29th November 2004, 5:43 PM
why LG deoxys can mop the floor with mewtwo

step 1: cosmic power(or watever it was that raises defences)
step 2:NIGHT SHADE(crappy attk stats dont mater when set damage is on your side)
step 3:repeat 1 and 2, use recover if needed

Mewtwo just recovers then calm minds 6times while recovering then gets a critical hit twice with ice beam or whatever

Icicle_knight
29th November 2004, 8:35 PM
That's virtually impossible, you know... Mewtwo can't Recover AND use Calm Mind at the same time... besides, people don't care about Mewtwo's hp... and Deoxys will use Cosmic Power, so Ice beam won't OHKO it.
;215;

Luna Lovegood
29th November 2004, 11:48 PM
Mewtwo just recovers then calm minds 6times while recovering then gets a critical hit twice with ice beam or whatever

lol no, have you ever heard of Pressure and recovery moves for Deoxys-LG? I mean come on, Mewtwo is just going to waste a ton of PP on it and then still lose.

Deoxys-LG@Leftovers
-Knock Off
-Thunder Wave
-Rest
-Seismic Toss

Good game Mewtwo.

Icicle_knight
1st December 2004, 1:22 PM
That Deoxys moveset is good, but since Seismic Toss can't touch ghosts, an anti-tank Bannette would own it :)
;215;

mlugia
1st December 2004, 10:00 PM
Cept it was kinda made to kill Mewtwo, not Banette >_>

fatedtrainer
2nd December 2004, 4:27 AM
Can someone tell me all the different archetypes? (Ex. Special Sweeper, Physical Sweeper, etc.)

Is Hazer also called Annoyer?

You give a lot of options for a good team, but I would like to mix and match my own set of archetypes.

Anemus
2nd December 2004, 1:26 PM
Hmm, you do all have points. Ok, I give up. It seems that Mewtwo CAN be pawned by some Pokemons. And with their expected Movestes at that. Still, do not underestimate the fact that Mewtwo keeps on having an excelently balanced offensive set of stats (High HP and decent defenses). BUT, like I said, Mewtwo can appear with quite the unexpected MoveSet. And, besides, do not think that a serious trainer would step on all those traps that easily. In a 6-member team there's gonna be 1 Mewtwo killer. And that is due to the fact that you are not gonna use 3 Deoxys in a team or teaching all those sophisticated and specialized MSes on ALL your Pokemons!!!
So the opponent could always switch to something else and keep mewtwo to eliminate the rest of the team. In ANY case, in ANY way Mewtwo does not suck.
Just for your eyes only, Kingler, here's something you should take a glimpse into:
#242 - Blissey
Type: Normal
Ability: Natural Cure[Heals status when switched out]
Serene Grace[Promotes added effects]
Base Stats: 255
Att: 10
Def: 10
Spd: 55
Sp Att: 75
Sp Def: 135
Trust me, it will make the opponent really happy if you teach Eq to Blissey. And be sure to EV train it if you have "Counter", otherwise it will not survive much.
You are wrong if you think "Recover" is wasted on Mewtwo. With 106 base HP and a Pokemon like him, it definetely pays to have him stay in the game. His most classical set is at the same time lethal: Substitute, Psychic, Calm Mind and Recover. You can change Psychic to something else and he would still be awesome.
One last thing, remeber that all Deoxys have tiny, teeny, weeny, pathetic HP. I am very sorry to state so, but how much of a problem can they all be with so little HP? Wouldn't a Blissey also pawn a Deoxys(not L-G) just like Mewtwo??? In any case, Deoxys is no more dangerous than Mewtwo or any less. Mewtwo has staying power, Deoxys does not. Deoxys may have more Att. or Sp. Att. and Speed, Mewtwo has better defenses. Deoxys has better Deffenses and Mewtwo has more Sp. Att. and Speed.-

These are the archetypes:
Physical Sweeper - A Pokemon designed to use mostly physical attacks to wipe out the opponent as quickly as possible. Usually has high speed, and must have high attack. Physical types: Normal, Flying, Fighting, Rock, Ghost, Steel, Ground, Bug,
Poison.

Special Sweeper - Same with a Psysical Sweeper, only the Pokemon has high Sp. Att. instead. Special attacks: Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, Grass, Dark, Psychic, Dragon.

Mixed Sweeper - A sweeper that uses attacks from both physical and special types. It's usually not a good idea(EVs section...) to have both physical and special attacks,
but at times, it may become necessary.

Tank - A Pokemon with high defenses, and usually has a recovering move, Leftovers,
and a move that raises one of its defenses. Its purpose is to stall for as much time as possible. Usually, it only has one attack just in case it's the last Pokemon. However, a Hazer can usually defeat one.

Toxi/Pyro/Parastaller
Toxi=Toxic
Pyro=Burn(Will-o-wisp)
Para=Paralysis
Basically, it's a Tank with one of Toxic, Will-o-wisp, or a paralyzing move, usually Thunder Wave. Protect is also usually on a Pokemon with these moves to let the effects take place. Clerics can beat this.

Annoyer - It's made to annoy. It's best used on Pokemon that can take hits since some are chance based and need to be able to survive an attack. Annoying moves example: Confuse Ray, Toxic, Charm etc.

Hazer - A Pokemon with Haze. The faster, the better, but it's not essential. It's used to counter Pokemon such as Gyarados with Dragon Dance. Defense is also preferred in case the opponent already has powered up.

Pseudo Hazer - It's a Pokemon that uses an attack with an effect like Haze and with the purpose of Haze such as Roar and Whirlwind.

Cleric - A Cleric is a Pokemon that is used to heal the status conditions of other Pokemon using moves like Aromatherapy and Heal Bell. Pseudo Passing moves are also usually on them.

Pseudo Passer - Some attacks give boosted defenses or heal, and the effects stay when switched out. These are called Pseudo moves, and are often used to give Pokemon some defense. A Spiker handles these quite well.

Spiker - A Pokemon with "Spikes". Tries to encourage or force switches so the opponent takes a lot of damage. 3 layers of Spikes is the max and most effective amount.

Toxi/Pyro/Parashuffler - First, use your status move, then you shuffle the opponent using an attack like Roar that forces them to switch, so you can inflict the opponent's entire team with an annoying status condition.

STAB - Same Type Attack Boost

HP Type - Hidden Power then what type it is.

Subpuncher - A Pokemon that uses Substitute then Focus Punch. Since the opponent can't deal damage even if the Sub breaks, Focus Punch hits with devastating power.

Baton Passer - A Pokemon that utilizes the "Baton Pass" move. If you have a very fragile Pokemon like Ninjask, then place all EVs into HP and defenses as well as nature, as it is fast enough and has speed boost to BP before it dies. For others, you'd normally want some Speed EVs to take a hit, stat up, then quickly BP. Defenses are good too, but again no attacking stat EVs.

Man, that was tiring. Enjoy...

mlugia
2nd December 2004, 2:34 PM
In your Mewtwo vs Deoxys argument, you're saying that Mewtwo is better because it has better Atk/Def than something else. Consider Kingdra. It has better Defenses than other Water types, like Omastar, and also better attack powers than things like Tentacruel. Yet it sucks compared to these two... =x

Icicle_knight
2nd December 2004, 8:25 PM
Well, Mewtwo is Uber. Don't forget that.
But that Sub/CM/Recover/Psychic moveset sucks. Even a Murkrow could take it like that. Mewtwo must have more than 1 attack. Then again, it's not sure if a Bliss can own a Mewtwo. It must be able to take Mewtwo BEFORE it CMs, but after 6 CMs, there's not much Bliss can do.
Btw, mlugia has a point. Not only stats matter, the types and the movepool also determine if a poke sucks or not.
;215;

Cromat
2nd December 2004, 9:20 PM
Unless you use Toxic on Blissey (bleh..) or you are really lucky with Thunder Wave, Blissey can't do anything to Mewtwo but SToss him while it CMs and then Recovers, until it has 6 and then he will 2HKO her. He might be later destroyed by other things because he's paralyzed, so leaving it against Blissey isn't smart, unless you have Sub/Punch/Psychic/Recover, which can work well. Anyway if you want to beat Mewtwo a much easier way would be to use Tyranitar. Mewtwo has lost it's place as the best pokemon to Groudon and Kyogre, though it's still deadly. Lugia with Curse is better than Mewtwo IMO.

Also, Deoxys-FR is unstoppable. Even if you send something like Registeel against it, what's gonna stop me from switching? Nothing. Then after I kill Registeel I can kill your whole team. Deoxys-FR requires no setup, and no planning.

Icicle_knight
2nd December 2004, 9:51 PM
It's NOT unstoppable. If someone defeats every poke on your team, or Trappasses(unlikely) to CBjask, Deoxys-FR can be beaten.
;215;

fatedtrainer
3rd December 2004, 2:46 AM
Oh, and one more. Sunny Beamer, a grass pokemon that knows sunny day and solarbeam, and possibly Synthesis for healing.

Anemus
3rd December 2004, 8:12 AM
In your Mewtwo vs Deoxys argument, you're saying that Mewtwo is better because it has better Atk/Def than something else. Consider Kingdra. It has better Defenses than other Water types, like Omastar, and also better attack powers than things like Tentacruel. Yet it sucks compared to these two... =x

True, but I meant Attacks (Attack - Special Attack). Kingdra is water type, so it would be usefull to have high Sp. Attack, not Attack. It's almost unfair that Pokemons that learn Crabhammer do not have high Sp. Attack (he, he, he). Mewtwo has highest Sp. Attack therefore it's better than say, Alakazam, Espeon, Gardevoir etc. (considering it's whole set of Stats).
Cromat, you mean learning "Toxic" in Blissey, not attacking it with it, right?O.o. It's kinda confusing the way you're writing it.
Oh, yes, thanks for that fatedtrainer, I forgot. Only that it doesn't have to be Grass. Just know Sunny Day and Solar Beam. Healing move not required either but it might come handy. A nice example of a non-grass Sunnybeamer would be Groudon. BTW, wouldn't it be reaeaeally mean if Groudon couls also learn Synthesis and Bulk Up? Imagine a Groudon with Earthquake, Bulk Up, Sunny Day, Synthesis. Wicked...
?What's a Trappasser?

Luna Lovegood
3rd December 2004, 8:36 AM
It's NOT unstoppable. If someone defeats every poke on your team, or Trappasses(unlikely) to CBjask, Deoxys-FR can be beaten.
;215;

Deoxys-FR in the hands of someone good is VERY powerful. You'd have to have quite a few Pokemon geared towards beating it.

Icicle_knight
3rd December 2004, 10:34 PM
Deoxys-FR in the hands of someone good is VERY powerful. You'd have to have quite a few Pokemon geared towards beating it.
Well, it's an Uber for some reason... all I wanted to say is that it's not unstoppable. There aren't unstoppable pokes.
;215;

fatedtrainer
3rd December 2004, 11:53 PM
Magmar - Fire - Fire Sweeper (Modest, Mild or Rash)
Item: Persim Berry
Flamethrower
Thunder Punch
Barrier
Confuse Ray

How is this for a moveset?

I thought Bulk Up was one of Groudon's starting moves...

Icicle_knight
3rd December 2004, 11:57 PM
Not horrible, but not good either... for sp.sweeping, I like:
Magmar@No idea :D
Modest
EVs:No idea again, I suck at making EV spreads...
Flamethrower
Psychic
Thunderpunch
Filler

;215;

fatedtrainer
4th December 2004, 12:15 AM
Not horrible, but not good either... for sp.sweeping, I like:
Magmar@No idea :D
Modest
EVs:No idea again, I suck at making EV spreads...
Flamethrower
Psychic
Thunderpunch
Filler

;215;

Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?

How about this for Venusaur:

Venusaur – Grass/Poison – Sunnybeamer (Calm)
Item: Leftovers
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Solarbeam
Light Screen

Light Screen is the only one I'm not sure about. Maybe I should go with another attack instead.

I'm going to fly by the seat of my pants as far as EV are concerned. For Magmar I think Special Attack and Defense. I'm completely open to suggestions on EV, I don't know much about them, I only recently discovered them.

team aqua leader lee
4th December 2004, 5:27 PM
what are OU UB because i am VERY courious

Icicle_knight
4th December 2004, 9:35 PM
It's not too bad having Barrier on Magmar, since it needs a filler anyway. Maybe put the EVs like: 252 sp.att, 252 spd, 6 hp.
For Venusaur, this set owns:
Venusaur@Leftovers
Careful/Impish
EVs:Keep this a secret, but I SUCK BADLY at making EV spreads
Leech seed
Sleep powder
Sludge bomb
Substitute/Synthesis
;215;

shinchikudou
4th December 2004, 10:28 PM
yea that's the standard set, I considered using a swords dancing venusaur at one time, now that it gets earthquake and has decent speed.

Geodude
8th December 2004, 7:37 AM
Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?

No. Two same-type moves are only bad when both are standard damage-dealing moves, such as a Charizard with Flamethrower and Fire Blast.

mlugia
8th December 2004, 8:27 AM
Too bad it's bad because Magmar + barrier = retarded.

Mobbus
9th December 2004, 3:22 AM
Where's it better to put EVs in a competitive team; the lower stats that may need them, or the higher stats to further enhance them?

little britain
12th December 2004, 4:27 PM
Put them in higher i.e

heracross: good att so 252att
allright spd so 252spd
then 6hp

but 252/252/6 and 252/129/129 ev spreads are not always good

Anemus
20th December 2004, 2:09 PM
Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?

How about this for Venusaur:

Venusaur – Grass/Poison – Sunnybeamer (Calm)
Item: Leftovers
Sunny Day
Synthesis
Solarbeam
Light Screen

Light Screen is the only one I'm not sure about. Maybe I should go with another attack instead.

I'm going to fly by the seat of my pants as far as EV are concerned. For Magmar I think Special Attack and Defense. I'm completely open to suggestions on EV, I don't know much about them, I only recently discovered them.

I think you should team your Venusaur with something with Sunny Day. That way you get an empty slot to put "Sludge Bomb" that, I believe, is much better than having Sunny Day. You do miss a turn to make the switch but Venu's HP and Defenses can make up for it. Also, I think it's better to put "Sleep Powder" and/or "Leech Seed" (eats up 1/8 of opponent's HP and adds it to yours - works until enemy switches or dies but even if you switch). ?Maybe it would be better to put the sleeping move to the other Poke? Hmm, in any way, I think "Light Screen" is smart if you want to surprise the opponent but useless if you stick to sleep inducing moves (which could be better).

Now, about the common problem of balance, I say balance your TEAM - NOT your POKEMON. A balanced Pokemon turns up to be weaker when it comes to face the opponent's weakness. A balanced team is far better, with Pokemons that are weak in one or two stats but strong in one or two others. Just make sure not to have all your Pokemons weak in a specific stat (e.g speed - no one wants a slow team)...

fatedtrainer
27th December 2004, 11:58 AM
Um, I was thinking of using my favorite Pokemon in my team, but it isn't at it's fully evolved form. I would like to use a Marill. Is it a really bad thing if I don't evolve it to Azumarill?

Kaiser
27th December 2004, 8:01 PM
Um, I was thinking of using my favorite Pokemon in my team, but it isn't at it's fully evolved form. I would like to use a Marill. Is it a really bad thing if I don't evolve it to Azumarill?

Evolve it.pre evolved pkmn,99% of the time,they suck.


-MK ;376;

HoundoomTrainer
27th December 2004, 8:08 PM
Evolve it.pre evolved pkmn,99% of the time,they suck.


-MK ;376;

The only ones that wouldn't suck would be...

Trapinch (100 base Attack and has Arena Trap)
Shelgon (Rock Head and DD)

Um... be back later. :D

-HT ;229;

Kaiser
27th December 2004, 8:13 PM
The only ones that wouldn't suck would be...

Trapinch (100 base Attack and has Arena Trap)
Shelgon (Rock Head and DD)

Um... be back later. :D

-HT ;229;

XD

surfing pika,lol.


-MK ;376;

Jshadias
14th January 2005, 12:45 AM
2. Recognize and appreciate the value of stat-raising and support moves such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Reflect, and so on. If you don't balance out your team with those types of moves, you'll probably get your butt kicked by a team that has them.
This is by no means true, battles are often decided without the aid of stat-boosting moves.


3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.
Quick Claw works 23.4% of the time, but noone should ever use it.


4. For held items, you can't go wrong with Leftovers. I realize multiple Leftovers are hard to get without trading with other games and going through the battle tower lots, so Shell Bell is an acceptable alternative. Leftovers is always the best held item, unless your Poke has Rest, in which case the usual choice is Chesto Berry, or unless your Poke knows Thief or Covet, in which case don't have it hold anything.
This is wrong. Pokemon like Aerodactyl, Tauros, Dugtrio, and Slaking are worthless without Choice Band. Chesto Berry + Rest is also a poor combo, and Leftovers should be used instead usually.


5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.
This is biased and quite untrue. This is mostly true for ubers, but not completely.

Flaming Lip
7th February 2005, 10:18 PM
Umm I don't know if this would help any one but out of all the types there are 2 main triads

1. grass, fire, water
2. Dark, Phychic, fighting
I useally base my team on these triads this way each pokemon backs the other up. And if you have that down have some pokemon be dual type for more protection against the other types.

This is a good strong way to build a team around and ti covers many grounds. Like I said dual types can fix the holes.

Missingno the Pokemaniac
13th February 2005, 8:59 PM
This may be old, but I couldn't read the last twelve pages...

I like to stick to these rules...should they be included?

--Three basic food groups: Fire, Water, and Grass. (Grass can be replaced with Electric if you can't find a good Grass type to train, but it shouldn't really be a problem...)
--No complete type weakness (eg. Tyranitar, Ninetails, Muk: All weak against ground)
--No more than two of the same type on a team (eg. Charizard and Gyarados. Don't mix.)
--Basic rules posted by Geodude-san also included.
--1 to 2 sweepers only.
--2 to 3 tanks will suffice.
--1 annoyer will be good on a team.

Good?

Netbattle
13th February 2005, 9:08 PM
fire types are not needed and having more then onepokemon with the same type[gyarados/charizard is fine as they are dual types as long as you have a ground to take electric/rock attacks] also having 3 pokemon weak to ground isnt that bad IF you have a levitator/flyer

Cromat
13th February 2005, 11:02 PM
This may be old, but I couldn't read the last twelve pages...

I like to stick to these rules...should they be included?

--Three basic food groups: Fire, Water, and Grass. (Grass can be replaced with Electric if you can't find a good Grass type to train, but it shouldn't really be a problem...)
--No complete type weakness (eg. Tyranitar, Ninetails, Muk: All weak against ground)
--No more than two of the same type on a team (eg. Charizard and Gyarados. Don't mix.)
--Basic rules posted by Geodude-san also included.
--1 to 2 sweepers only.
--2 to 3 tanks will suffice.
--1 annoyer will be good on a team.

Good?

The only fire type I would ever consider using seriously is Blaziken because he's one of the best if not the best mixed attackers in the game.

3x weaknesses are always bad, even if they're to rare types such as Bug. 3x Ground weakness is horrible to have, seeing as Earthquake is the commonest move in the game. What Geodude said is not all true, Jshadias covered that.

Anemus
19th February 2005, 6:45 AM
Blaziken is very difficult to handle. It has excellent attack stats to buck up both its types. However it has four weaknesses: Ground, Water, Flying and Psychic, and its deffences are reaeaeally low. Plus, it has low speed as well. Just for the record, it learns Bulk up which I consider a very cool (and catastrophic) move. It requires skill to handle him efficiently.

orangekows
22nd February 2005, 8:19 PM
1. i think that you should try to get pokemon who are 2 types so you can get 12 types in a team.

the types i suggest are mainly: fire, water, grass, electric, psychic, dark (if you can find a decent one) and some fillers which would be steel, ice, and dragon.

i suggest you put a fire, ice and dragon (duh!) on a dragon to counter its major weaknesses, dragon and ice. i think a good moveset on dragons is flamethrower, icebeam, dragon claw and a filler. i use thunderbolt. also do not use dragon dance on a dragon unless it is a physical sweeper because if it isnt its pointless.

also be careful about dragonite/salamance/altaria because ice moves are double super effective on it. i love dragon types because they can learn alot of moves.

2. also i think pokemon who are 2 opposite types are good and its hard to get a super effective hit on them. for example; ludicolo is water/grass so the only super effective hit is flying, bug and poison. also mudkip might seem awesome since electric attacks arent effective on it, but grass type moves are double super effective. try to stay away from those pokemon. (eg mudkip, pelipper, rock/ground types such as ryhorn, geodude, etc.)

3. also dont put physical and special moves on a pokemon.

4. and when in battle, be careful what booster moves you use like sunny day and rain dance because the opponent can benifit from them.

5. also dont use hydro pump, fireblast, blizzard or thunder. instead use flamethrower, surf, ice beam and thunderbolt because the average damage is higher on those because the accuracy is 100 instead of 85 and for blizzard and thunder, 75 (it might be 70) which sucks big time. and their pp is only 5 (thunder is 10) when flamethrower, thunderbolt and surf is 15. icebeam is 10. but icebeam with 95 power and 100 accuracy with 10 pp is A LOT, i mean ALOT better then blizzard which has a pp of 5 accuracy of 70, and 120 power. im not gonna calculate the average power but i can guarrantee that icebeam is a better choice than blizzard.

now thats my 2 cents. if someone wants me to write more stuff since im soo good (jk) pm me but i highly doubt that will happen since im a n00b. wow i wrote alot. well i really hope that helped. later

Netbattle
23rd February 2005, 5:22 PM
Mudkip is effected by electric attacks I hear

You're right about Thunderbolt > Thunder though (wow someone understands)

kyo_andy
23rd February 2005, 5:59 PM
Mudkip is effected by electric attacks I hear

You're right about Thunderbolt > Thunder though (wow someone understands)
that make me lol

ishak
23rd February 2005, 6:00 PM
They are, but they're not used as frequently as Leftovers. What I meant was that you can't go wrong if you choose Leftovers as a held item.

No, you don't need skill to use legendaries. Their stats are so high that they can beat almost anything, they can learn loads of TMs, and require no skill to use to their full potential. You can't claim to be a good battler if your team is full of Mewtwos and Rayquazas.

Well if you do use leftovers,then what if a pokemon with theif or covet comes
along?If you want to make it work 100% of the time,give it to a pokemon with
the sticky hold ability.

Netbattle
23rd February 2005, 6:12 PM
Pokemon with thief aren't really that common, especially on OverUsed Pokemanz

ishak
23rd February 2005, 6:12 PM
Mudkip is effected by electric attacks I hear

You're right about Thunderbolt > Thunder though (wow someone understands)

Electric type moves dont affect mudkip

Netbattle
23rd February 2005, 6:15 PM
O rly,

Mudkip = WATER mono type = PI-PIKACHU used THUNDERSHOCK = Mudkip laying on the floor dead

Marshtomp/Swampert = WATER + GROUND = PI-PIKACHU'S THUNDERSHOCK had no effect.

In short yes they do.

ishak
23rd February 2005, 6:28 PM
Oh yeah,thanks netbattle.Now I remember that Mudkip is water type and marshtomp
and swampert are water+ground.I thought that since marshtomp
and swampert are water+ground types,Mudkip was too.

Chosen of Mana
13th March 2005, 6:32 PM
Item limits are why Salac Berry and the like were invented. :p

You got a point, but Salac and co. are really hard to find. :(
Are there any other excepions?

Sorry if this is off-Topic.

Jshadias
14th March 2005, 8:03 AM
More like Salac Berry was invented for use with Endure and Substitute, not for stupid item clause.

Dre the legendary catcher
22nd March 2005, 12:27 AM
Hello,i'm an experienced trainer(been playing since pokemon red),but I need help to train a slakoth which i'll train into a slaking,but I don't know what good moveset(i'm keeping the focus punch I breeded onto it)or nature(between adament or jolly)or what ev's to train for it.Please help me.

Cipher Admin Anti-Shipping
23rd March 2005, 11:34 PM
Ok if you cant understand those questions about the EVs then you are clearly not experienced in competitive battling

Jshadias
24th March 2005, 3:38 AM
Just because you've played Pokemon for a while doesn't mean anything.

Slaking @ Choice Band
Return/Double-Edge
Earthquake
Focus Punch
Shadow Ball
252 speed/252 attack/6 hp (Adamant)

Dre the legendary catcher
24th March 2005, 5:16 AM
Thank you for the moveset.I can understand ev's,I just wanted a good moveset for my long time to get adament slakoth(even if it has traunt).I think rafael is right,but I am good,i've only lost once though.By the way,i'm a new member as well.

Cap D. Blue
24th March 2005, 5:24 AM
Ok if you cant understand those questions about the EVs then you are clearly not experienced in competitive battling
That was rude. I've played since Blue and don't understand EVs. Don't hurt me.

I just have something to say: I once posted a moveset for a Salamence, and people were all over me saying how bad it was. That was rude. Everyone's likes and dislikes are different. I admit, the moveset sucked, but I didn't need those people tossing swear words at me for it.

I usually have offensive movesets, but I'm thinking about revising my style. Expect me around here for a while.

I also don't "waste" all my TMs. I save my TMs for special occations. This is one of my reasons for my simple PKMN movesets. *gets kicked out of thread permenatly* I knew that was going to happen...

mmucha
10th April 2005, 3:49 AM
For a good Slaking with Focus Punch you should have this moveset.

Slaking:
Focus Punch
Yawn
Slack Off
Hyper Beam

Groudon80
10th April 2005, 3:57 AM
^No its not. You are a n00b.

Focus punch
shadow ball
return
EQ

is the standard. Don't even argue.

mmucha
10th April 2005, 4:06 AM
My Slaking would beat yours with ease. Plus, mine could last longer in battle.

Groudon80
10th April 2005, 4:11 AM
First off, no way in hell could it last longer or outrun it. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, b/c you posted no EVs.

It goes

Slaking@CB
252atk/252spd/6hp
adamant
EQ
shadow ball
return
FP

Aaron
10th April 2005, 4:22 AM
My Slaking would beat yours with ease. Plus, mine could last longer in battle.

if it were true then don't you think your set would be the standard?

slaking can't/will never have your set because of it's ability and the fact that your set just doesn't work in competitive play.