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Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 5:47 AM
I'd been stirring up in my witches' brew cauldron that doubles as a brain (it even comes with the "bubble, bubble, toil and trouble" dealie...okay, shutting up now. XD) and I'm planning another chaptered fanfiction that I've resolved to work on even more harder than Sin. It's *HORROR OF ALL HORRORS!!!* about a trainer *GASP HOES NOES SCRAP'S DOING A TRAINER-CENTRIC STORY!* but it isn't actually about wanting to be a Champion and all that bullcrap. The story's about the journey itself...the hardships...the battles fought....oh, and there's no League, either. Bye-bye, Gyms.

But don't get too excited yet. There is no way you'll be seeing this until Sin is over, and not until my ULTRA TOP SECRET PROJECT with Saber is doing headway.

So yes, we have the invetiable question:

OVERUSED POKEMON IN A TEAM. (and their personalities)

I'm well aware that people will respond, "As long as the Pokemon has an unique personality, it doesn't matter." But could it be as simple as that?

I had been considering using Xiaoling, a blind female Scyther who has a murderous hatred for my trainer character and consantly tries attempts on her trainer's life. But she is not without a certain degree of honor, so she won't QUITE stoop to assasination. However, she may sometimes casually whip the trainer with the flat of her blade when angry or annoyed, or hold the blade to the trainer's throat and challenge the trainer to a duel.

But thinking back on this...Scyther are so horribly overused. >< So I was considering using Xiaoling the blind Kabutops. 8D Kabutops seem to be speedier and more versatile, and can swim as well. So I'm leaning towards a Kabutops for now.

Hmmm....ooooookay, now the more I think about it, the more the Kabutops is appealing to me right now. They DO suck their prey dry of liquids...8D

But the question still stands. Do overused pokemon turn you off, even if they have a good personality?

For example, I want to use a Charmeleon. Those are SO overused (Charizard) But suppose the Charmeleon NEVER evolves in my story. Thisis because I loathe Charizard but adore Charmeleons. Now, give the Charmeleon a skull mask and a Rapidash femur and give it a personality disorder that makes it think it's actually a Cubone so it goes around using Bonemerang and Bone Rush and refusing to use fire attacks "because that is not the way of the Cubone." 8D

I'm guessing that appeals to people more than a generic hotheaded fire-spewing shining black Charizard. <<;;

So. DISCUSS. Overused pokemon, personalities, yada yada.

Ash_Junior
2nd November 2005, 5:54 AM
meh, as long as they're not totally uber, I'm fine with it.

oh, and just a note...Kabutops are extinct, you DO realize....at least they are in canon...they can only be gotten by fossils...again, going by game canon...

so...

*shrugs*

whatever....

:P

Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 5:56 AM
Yes, I'm aware of that fact. :P And I'm aware there's going to be a good explaination for that in the works. *shuffles into corner and chews on pencil nervously*

Lil Brother
2nd November 2005, 6:02 AM
There were a bunch of wild Kabuto in one Orange Islands ep, wasn't there? o.o And in Pokespecial, fossil Pokemon aren't exactly the most rare thing in the world either.

Hmm. Well, I lurve Scyther. But if you're leaning towards Kabutops, go with it. Kabutops are by far the greatest of the prehistory Pokemon.

Avenger Angel
2nd November 2005, 6:03 AM
Honestly, I don't think using "overused Pokemon" is all that bad. Most of the Pokemon that have already been used many times are usually favorites of people. Yes, of course Pikachu has been used so many hundreds of times, but if you use a Pikachu but sway very far away from the traditional storyline as well as change the usual character and perception of these "overused" Pokemon by quite a bit, they gain a whole new edge that makes them seem very different.

And hey, you could always say humans are overused. I think its more of a matter of using popular Pokemon in a whole new perception, rather than going out of the way to choose a Pokemon that only a few people actually like/care about. A popular Pokemon that has a very intresting character and perception is way better for a story that one of a Pokemon that rarely shows up in a fan fiction but is boring and just has a run-of-the-mill personality.

Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 6:06 AM
I had been initially considering a Scyther because if it were blind, it'd have to rely on its speed and intelligence rather than brute slashing power. Also, a Scyther reminds me of a samurai, who are known to have a deeply rooted sense of honor, but won't pause to deal out a flurry of head-chopping slices in a fight. XO

xXSaberXx
2nd November 2005, 6:16 AM
:O OH EM GEE SCRAP GAVE SOMETHING AWAY! *bashes on head* :P

LOLZ well, my thoughts?

DUDE, just go with the flow. Totally. /insertBrawlytalkhere. I mean, who the hell WOULDN'T laugh at a psychotic Charmeleon going, THAT IS NOT THE WAY OF THE CUBONE OMG!!!!

:D

I usually used OU pokemon. :/ Sadly. Whatever my charies need, that's what I give them. OR, I try to get pokemon that match a side of that trainer's personality. (Eg. Saber. Ray=Teh insane side. Sprink=Teh playful side. Giget=Sarcasm...etc etc....)

o.O HOPE THAT HELPED YOU LOYAL HOBO!

*beer*

And seriously, once we do o-o....six Chaps or so, we start advertising. :D

Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 6:19 AM
*gets bashed on head* I only said it was SOMETHING! T_T

Hmmm...so now I'm really stumped. *bleed* Scyther and Kabutops both have something unique to offer. o.o;;

Oh, and I'm a little surprised Sharpedo isn't OU. I was expecting Sharpedo to be one of the most OU Hoenn Pokemon, but guess not. :/

Dilasc
2nd November 2005, 6:24 AM
I'm gonna go against the crowd, and say overused pokemon get repetitive, no matter how you coat their personality. Often, overused Pokemon usually are starters, those featured in the show, or those that are allpowerful in game competitive play (though this one seems less so except for maybe Skarmory, since I've yet to see any story feature a trainer with an almighty Blissey.)

The way I see it, Pokemon with offbeat personalities for their species to make them unique. Whenever I can, I try to use Pokemon nobody ever considers using in my works, because it's original and different, and I make it my duty to be unique. Heck, I plan to feature a competitive Chancey in my near future if I can, simply because seeing one fight is rare.

As such, though using a redundant pokemon likely won't draw readers away (after all, you're a popular author, so all you gotta do is wag your nose and there's the fanclub), but it might just raise more eyebrows if the Pokemon is different, and rarely seen. Then again, that's probably just my honest opinion at best, so I guess you might as well do as you wish.

xXSaberXx
2nd November 2005, 6:27 AM
D: Sharpedo=UU I think it's his EXTREME lack of defense. Three TOP Hoenn OU'S:

1. Salamence
2. Metagross
2. Blaziken


And sad to say, I'm the proud trainer of TWO of the three. D:

See, for an awesome team that was like, UU, I would do something like...

Kabutops
Charmeleon
Illumise (LOVE THIS THING)
Xatu(OVERUSED SORTA, so Maybe Mantine?)
Medicham
Rapidash
Nidoking(Queen)


:O UU'S RULE!!!!!!!

Though, it depends. If you make them with unique personalites, anything can go! :D LIke that Charmeleon. GOD HE CRACKS ME UP AND HE ISNT EVEN WRITTEN YET! :O scary.

PsiUmbreon
2nd November 2005, 6:27 AM
My opinion:

IMO it's not the overused Pokémon that are annoying to see, it's more overused, simplistic personalities. I mean, it is theoretically possible to have a good fic with a shining black Charizard that has a complex personality.

Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 6:35 AM
True dat. Dilasc and Psi and Saber all have good points.

And I don't need to wag my nose. I don't want to sound like a over-glorified celebrity. <<;; Let's just call it months of turning out well-written one-shots and leave it at that. ^^;;

I've settled. I'm using the Kabutops, since Scyther REALLY are overused, and now even the whole honor thing sounds horribly cliche to my ears.

I'm thinking, you mentioned Salamence, Metagross, and Blaziken are overused. Do people use those and Scyther/Eevee/Pikachu a lot because they're seen so often in the television shows, or because they're powerful in the games, or based on their appearances? Or is it just all three?

Well, excepting the Eevee. He's horribly weak. <<;;

PsiUmbreon
2nd November 2005, 6:47 AM
I'm thinking, you mentioned Salamence, Metagross, and Blaziken are overused. Do people use those and Scyther/Eevee/Pikachu a lot because they're seen so often in the television shows, or because they're powerful in the games, or based on their appearances? Or is it just all three?

Well, excepting the Eevee. He's horribly weak. <<;;
It seems to be a combination of the three. It's basically whatever Pokémon are considered "cool" for whatever reason that are overused. But, like I said, an overused Pokémon in a fic can still work out, just, it depends on the skill of the writer and the writer's originality.

And some aspects of fics that are seen a lot still work out. For instance, a post-apocalyptic setting, or someone experimented on in a lab. Those types of things are seen fairly often in fics (I picked those because they're in your fic XD) but still work out just fine. So it's not necessarily about being overused, it's more about being overused by people who don't know how to write. :D

Iveechan
2nd November 2005, 1:26 PM
What makes Eevee appealing to people is that it looks like a fox and it evolves into 5 different forms, so it can just pull a duex ex machina (sp?). Even though it is weak statisticly, they still tend to be uber (recalls reading this one fic where an Eevee defeated a Nidoking, pfffft...)

It's not the overused Pokemon that turn me off, it's the Pokemon being used in a stereotypical, boring way. Like Pokebots (Dragonfree term) or, like, Umbreon is mysterious, Machoke is a brute, yadda yadda. I just look for my favorites, I don't care about overused/underused, and I'll quit reading and hate the author forever if they protray my favorite Pokemon in an unfavorable light (coughfarlacough)

Shadowcat
2nd November 2005, 2:04 PM
The fire starters are definitely overused.

Overused:
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken
Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion
Charmander/Charmeleon/Charizard

Those 3 are definitely overused at times.

Metagross of course, lots of people use it in the games, so in fics, yeah!

Eternal Daydreamer
2nd November 2005, 4:33 PM
OU Pokemon? Well, as already stated the Fire Starters are OU. But if you take an UO Pokemon and give an unique personality, it might work. Exe:
A vain Electabuzz
A bloodthirsty Kingdra
An angsty Teddiursa

The list just goes on.

Kiyohime
2nd November 2005, 4:57 PM
Okay, so looks like my super-intelligent Machoke character's going to do well. XD I liked Shiva (Machamp character in Sin) so much, I'm using her line again.

ARE Kingra overused? O.o Or did you mean UU? @_@

Brinstar
2nd November 2005, 5:04 PM
It seems that "overused" Pokemon haven't been used in so long that they're becoming underused. I've seen way more fics with Charmeleon then Charizard.

For me, I just use whatever Pokemon I like. I happen to like Blaziken a lot, and I used it in my last fic. Doesn't hurt the story, and I get to write about one of my favorite Pokemon.

I think people should just write about the Pokemon they want to write about, and not worry what people are going to think. It's your story, and if you limit yourself because of the audience, it's not fair to you.

Ash_Junior
2nd November 2005, 5:04 PM
heh...

I see that we think alike...

except my Machop in Retribution is Weak and smart, not strong and dumb.

lol...

and sicne when are Teddiursa overused? I've never seen one in a fic, I don't think.

Dilasc
2nd November 2005, 6:01 PM
Underused Pokemon is the one thing I miss the least from my piece of junk writing, Better and Tougher. There were Swinubs, Ledybas, Spearows, Rattatas,and the works. Many uncommonly seen Pokemon, and not all befitting the person who had them. It is either that, or the 50+ chapters that got Better and Tougher all it's reviews, but I now hate it due to its horrible writing.

The point is, less used Pokemon have an appeal factor that can make them seem really, really awesome because it's new and unique. The only problem is, you have to be the first to it, or you're not the first. Heck, I think I'm the only writer out there who had a Rocket with a Ledyba... no follin'.

skiboydoggy
2nd November 2005, 6:46 PM
Hmm... In my opinion, which does not really matter much anyway but I want to rack up posts or something, it is not so much of whether it is a UU or OU Pokemon that you are wielding at the moment, it is whether you actually like to write about that particular Pokemon.
For example, if you asked me to write a Pikachu centered fic, I might not even last a month, however, if you asked my to do something with Charizards and Dragonites (love them, so sue me), I might be more inclined to write well.

Hmm... So I guess in the end what I want to say is that it does not matter what type of Pokemon it is, it is just what type of WRITER they get. One that enjoys writing about them, (with a certain amount of writing ability,) or somebody who despises what he does.

MachopGirl
2nd November 2005, 10:06 PM
For overused Pokemon, it's okay for me as long as the OU have a truly unique personality and strayed away from the negative stereotypes. I do agree that some people just used them as boring Pokebots and that's it.

*glomps Scrap* Oh, I like it when you make your Machamp a female!! :D

Avenger Angel
3rd November 2005, 12:17 AM
I'm thinking, you mentioned Salamence, Metagross, and Blaziken are overused. Do people use those and Scyther/Eevee/Pikachu a lot because they're seen so often in the television shows, or because they're powerful in the games, or based on their appearances? Or is it just all three?

Something like that really depends on the author and how much exposure and/or likeness they have toward that Pokemon. They appear often and show up because usually they are a favorite of people. People like fics that star their favorite Pokemon, naturally speaking. However, the critical element that is needed besides that is substance in their character.


Well, excepting the Eevee. He's horribly weak. <<;;

Well, I almost never base Pokemon characters for fan fiction through their game stats. I used to, but I stopped doing it for obvious reasons. For one thing, Eevee is small, so maybe it would be harder to hit him, especially if the Eevee in question is nimble, creative, and can outfox its enemy. And needless to say, those kinds of aspects are never considered in the games but can very much be a part of a fan fiction depending on character.

When it comes to thinking outside the box of Pokemon fan fiction, the stats and aspects of the video games and the anime is your box. Use them as your runway, but then make the step to spread your wings and take on a whole new perception.

Eternal Daydreamer
3rd November 2005, 12:56 AM
Ooops. That was a typo. I meant that Kingdra and Tediusra ARE UU not OU. Oops, once again. Anyways, I chose an Electabuzz for my OC in "Not So Sensational" because they were UU and somehow that Electabuzz became a vain Pokemon.

+Chaos Blade+
3rd November 2005, 12:57 AM
Not true. If you give Pokémon a distinct personality, and along with it, unique characteristics in their ideals and appeals, it makes Fanfiction writing a whole lot easier. To quote from some guy:

"Be Yourself. An original is always better than a Copy." Make your characters unique and you'll go places.

Fwee :3 XP

~ Denny

Dragonfree
3rd November 2005, 1:13 AM
I am, as I just love to rant about, entirely against the concepts of "overused" and "underused".

When you all say, "Overused Pok&#233;mon are okay if they're proper, well-developed characters," I assume you mean that they're not okay if they don't, correct? I agree with that. Common sense.

Well, what about underused Pok&#233;mon? Are they "okay" even if they're Pok&#233;bots? Of course not! A flat character is a flat character, and flat characters are not okay.

So what's the difference, really? It depends 100% on how well it's pulled off on the author's part in both cases.

+Chaos Blade+
3rd November 2005, 1:22 AM
Yeah, I mean look at Dragonfree's fic. She has a Scyther, a Charizard, a Dragonair, Larvitar, a ton of overused Pok&#233;mon. But still, her novel is great. As well as others. It's been a while since I read one, but Syra's Bloodstained Swords was a great read, and a few other OT fics were fantastic, even with OU Pok&#233;mon. ("Winding Roads". God, we miss you, Ind.)

+Chaos Blade+

Dilasc
3rd November 2005, 1:49 AM
The fact remains, that any Pokemon can have an awesome personality, but think about it, would it be cooler to see yet another Charizard with said awesome personality, or a rarely seen Swinub with awesome personality. Think about it for a minute, seriously.

+Chaos Blade+
3rd November 2005, 1:53 AM
True, Dilasc. That does make sense. It makes sense that the fact that rarely-seen plus a great personality makes a unique author, but it doesn't matter if it is OU or UU. It's still a Pok&#233;mon!

+Chaos Blade+

BirthdayPirate
3rd November 2005, 1:55 AM
I do not dislike "overused" Pokemon. In fact, I like quite a few of them, for the same reasons that so may people have used them. So, no, they don't turn me off. On the other hand, underused Pokemon do. Not because they're underused, but because a lot of them are boring. Reading about Spearow and Paras is just plain dull, although that is not true for, say, Grimer. Basically, I don't believe in overused and underused Pokemon, just boring and interestign Pokemon.

On the personality side of the spectrum, I am rather... Well, strange. I don't care what the personality is, as long as it is not flat and one-dimensional (not taking into account stories where Pokemon are supposed to be like that). This means a well-developed aggressive and arrogant Charizard would be perfectly appealing to me. On the other hand, a Charizard who is afraid of and bad at everything would be incredibly boring, as its personality has no depth. People can have stereotypical personalities, deal with it.

Overall, I think the whole system of over-used and under-used Pokemon should be shredded into small pieces and burned.

Dragonfree
3rd November 2005, 2:31 AM
The fact remains, that any Pokemon can have an awesome personality, but think about it, would it be cooler to see yet another Charizard with said awesome personality, or a rarely seen Swinub with awesome personality. Think about it for a minute, seriously.
I'd rather see a Charizard with said awesome personality. Why? Because I like Charizard more than Swinub.

I personally don't think it is fair at all that the quality of somebody's work of fiction should depend on what others write.

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
3rd November 2005, 2:36 AM
Well, as a well-educated Competitive Battler, I know what and what isn't OU and where to draw the line.

IMO, there are two types of OUs. There are the OUs of the Metagame, like Salamence, Heracross, and Suicune that we all love because they're so freakishly powerful. They generally tend to be dull characters(LMAO at myself, I have Ardos using a Heracross:p. Just 'cause it's on his XD Team, though, and I just have to stick to the PokéLaws XD), because they have a large amount of power and generally have no problem mastering it. But, as always, if you can give it a good enough personality that it's original and interesting to learn about, it'll work.

Then there are the popular OUs, like Eevee, Charizard, Kingdra, Shuckle, and Scyther(another XD to me, because my One-Shot stars a demon Scyther and Ardos was fighting a Scyther(with Heracross, nonetheless. PH33R TEH GENERIKC)). They don't necessarily have a lot of power, but people just love them because of how they look or how the animé portrays them. Therefore, those people enjoy having those Pokémon in their Fic, because, generally speaking, they expect other people to share their opinions and up the ratings of their Fics.

Me, personally? I tend not to abide by this categorization. A lot of Pokémon in my Fic don't appear again anyway, so with them, it's basically about them looking good on entrance. For example, the crazed, temperamental Slaking I just wrote up for my character, Tiro. Slkaing's definitely OU with the second best Attack Stat in the entire game. It can use the Choice Band to great effect, and you'd be doomed if you don't have some sort of Slaking resistance on your team. But the Slaking I wrote about isn't reappearing, at least any time soon, so I had to make it impressive while it was still around. So, I had it throttle Adros's Magmar and have a brutal battle with Ardos's Poliwrath. Though Slaking lost, it gave off the impression that it was incredibly powerful and that it was indeed a challenge to conquer. There are also certain unavoidable situations, however rare they may be. E.g., in my Fic, Flannery needs constant transportation around Hoenn. So, what would I want to use? Obviously, a Fire Type, because she's a Fire Trainer. But how to do so? Entei could carry you around Hoenn with ease, but giving Flannery an Entei is pretty unrealistic. So Flying Types. If I'm sticking with Fire, my three choices are Ho-Oh, Moltres, and Charizard. Ho-Oh is totally out of the question. Moltres is a bit too strong, too, and unless I depict Flannery as some ultimately powerful Trainer no one can beat, it's still not right. Therefore, my only remaining option is Charizard. I'd rather not, but what else am I gonna do?

Also, realism is a factor here. What would your Pokémon be more afraid of, a Choice Band Return from Luvdisc, or a Choice Band Return from Deoxys FR? When you're writing, you have to consider how challenging you make the foe seem, and if you use generally strong Pokémon, it's more realistic. That doesn't mean, of course, that you can't strike fear with a weak NU/UU Pokémon. Have a Nosepass in your Fic? You don't need to have it face a Groudon, have it face an evasive Masquerain instead. Masquerain are horribly vulnerable to Rock Attacks, but if said Nosepass can't hit the Masquerain, then haven't you just given the image that it's a tough foe? And with an NU Pokémon, nonetheless!

But in the long run, I prefer using UU/NU/BL Pokémon. They're not commonly used in NetBattle or Fics, so that gives a bit of interest in your Fic. It's new ground, too, do no one can complain that.....oh, I dunno, a suicidal Shiftry has already been done. Who uses Shiftry? No one, so you can do whatever you want with it because of that.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Negrek
3rd November 2005, 2:52 AM
As people have been saying, it generally only matters how you write their characters. It is a bad sign to have a character start off with an OU in a 'fic, simply because it often a precursor to a more annoying clich&#233; (because, in truth, how many normal pok&#233;mon trainers end up with an eevee starter?). I also don't get why people class the starters as OU. I mean, duh, they're the starters. Most people start with them. So of course they are represented a lot. While, yeah, it's tiring to see everybody pick charmander over bulbasaur or squirtle, that's just personal preference.

I myself choose a lot of pok&#233;mon teams for characters randomly, so I end up with a fairly high concentration of UU's, but I don't have a beef with that. I know that for the next 'fic I write the main character will begin with gligar, but the 'fic after that the trainer's team begins as sceptile, charmeleon, flygon, lapras, tauros, and a currently indeterminate dark-type. Quite standard, those dragons, but they had to be as such for the roles that they play in the piece.

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
3rd November 2005, 3:06 AM
As people have been saying, it generally only matters how you write their characters. It is a bad sign to have a character start off with an OU in a 'fic, simply because it often a precursor to a more annoying clich&#233; (because, in truth, how many normal pok&#233;mon trainers end up with an eevee starter?). I also don't get why people class the starters as OU. I mean, duh, they're the starters. Most people start with them. So of course they are represented a lot. While, yeah, it's tiring to see everybody pick charmander over bulbasaur or squirtle, that's just personal preference.

I myself choose a lot of pok&#233;mon teams for characters randomly, so I end up with a fairly high concentration of UU's, but I don't have a beef with that. I know that for the next 'fic I write the main character will begin with gligar, but the 'fic after that the trainer's team begins as sceptile, charmeleon, flygon, lapras, tauros, and a currently indeterminate dark-type. Quite standard, those dragons, but they had to be as such for the roles that they play in the piece.
You have caught my interest 8D

To avoid this post becoming SPAM, I'll just say I agree with all you said, Negrek.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Dragonfree
3rd November 2005, 3:22 AM
Yeah, that's another thing... people complaining about the use of the traditional starters as starters... Why wouldn't they be used as starters? And the Charmander thing - frankly, if most people like Charmander more than the other starters, most people are going to pick Charmander, aren't they? Sure, a trainer with a Squirtle or Bulbasaur is always nice, but if the trainer's favorite starter is Charmander, then Charmander it is. The starter is the one Pok&#233;mon where people get to choose what they get - I believe at least then it's perfectly justifiable to give them a popular Pok&#233;mon, especially if the popular Pok&#233;mon is also a traditional starter.

Chibi Pika
3rd November 2005, 3:30 AM
I don't give a crap about whether or not Pokemon are overused or not. Think about it: they're overused for a reason: lots of people like them. If Pokemon were real, just as many people would like them.

Heck, in my fic hundreds of starters are mass bred every month. There is a comment that a sixth of all trainers own a Charizard. And in my fic, people can even apply to train a second starter or an Eevee (nearly extinct in the wild, but also mass bred.)

And of course, the personality factor helps a lot. Generic, uber-fied, pwnage, and lets throw in shiny, Charizards are boring. But my Charizard is uber-insecure, feels that he is responsible for the death of his first trainer, is constantly paranoid that his new trainer is going to get killed, for most of his Charmeleon-hood idolized Charizards after training with a level 80 one (and later challenging it and getting his *** whipped), and is determined to prove his strength so when he evolves he ends up going berserk and getting majorly pwned.

Most of those details were from my not-yet-released revision 9, just so LC readers know.

And I'm not even going into my Pikachu. He's a Team Rocket hybrid for crying out loud, about the most cliche thing in existence, and yet I feel I handled his character well.

~Chibi~;249;<?>;rukario;

PS: Scrap, I LOVE that Cubone/Charmeleon idea. XD

Kiyohime
3rd November 2005, 3:53 AM
Okay, NOW I'm considering BOTH a Scyther and a Kabutops belonging to my trainer character, since I'm getting some EXTREMELY cool ideas for cofnlicts between the two, as well as some sexy double battle setups. Thanks to all the great advice I'm getting, actually. X0

Do people consider Blastoise and Venusaur UU compared to Charizard, or OU in their own level, or is it JUST Bulbasaur and Squirtle that's OU? XD

GoGoTenda
3rd November 2005, 4:21 AM
Hm...all the starters seem a little OU. Except for the Johto ones, which seem to be on the more UU side (even if Cyndaquil is still fairly popular). I would like to see more Venatoise, though :P

I feel a little bad for using OU in my fic...though several highly UU (fic wise) characters make me feel all fuzzy inside. Particularly; Smeargle, Farfetch'd, Porygon, Murkrow, Jynx, Octillery, and my personal favorite, Shedinja. I do belive that as long as a Pokemon's personality is unique or deep, then it doesn't matter what species it is. Of course, stereotypes should be avoided, but you'll have to use archetypes eventually.

Negrek
3rd November 2005, 4:34 AM
Do people consider Blastoise and Venusaur UU compared to Charizard, or OU in their own level, or is it JUST Bulbasaur and Squirtle that's OU? XD
It actually kinda depends on where the 'fic is. You'll almost always see the trainer beginning with a charmander, which evolves to charmeleon/charizard.

However, in battle 'fics, you almost always see all three together on a team, or each one represented at least once. Also, rivals will almost always have the non-picked starters, so if your character has a charizard, you will almost always see the blastoise or venusaur.

Thus, you see blastoise and venusaur about as often as you see a fully-evolved charizard, but squirtle and bulbasaur (and especially wartortle and ivysaur) nowhere near as much as a charmander. If that makes sense..

To ~*Commander Blizzard*~: You like your gligar, eh?

Dilasc
3rd November 2005, 5:23 AM
The most UU starter, if I'm not mistaken, is Totodile, and that's including thw Hoenn starters as well. Let's face it, the growing number of Hoenn fics mean lots of Hoenn Pokemon adventures, and all three starters have great features (Leaf Blade, Fire/Fighting, or a single weakness to grass only make them very liked.) It probably has to do with the physical based stats on a water type starter, but that's why I chose it for my fic... uh, the Underusedness that is, not the physical sweepage.

Ash_Junior
3rd November 2005, 6:14 AM
Chibi, you may not have meant to, but I was suddenly inspired to make a shiny, uber, pwnage Charizard that lays the smack down on the good guys and keeps everybody in line (Basically Kanto fought a war and lost, and it's under heavy martial law, and this guy is a regional director)....

*drools*

and Cubone...

hmm...

the possibilities of an underused ground type....

*shakes out of creativity revery*

anway, to keep this from being spam...

I know that it's petty to judge fics on their starters, but if it's a journey fic and it's got a really overused Poke (a la Pikachu/Eevee) I'll generally stop reading right there...

and while we're on the subjectof UU Pokes, have any of you seen a Pikablu in a fic before?

if not, I'm the first one (Operation: Celebi, latest chapter)! yay (hopefully)!

Kiyohime
3rd November 2005, 6:36 AM
I've NEVER seen Pikablu in an OC fanficiton (OC being original character). o.o;; Seriosuly. NEVAH. XD It's the same with Swinub, Piloswine, Qwilfish, etc.

Ash_Junior
3rd November 2005, 7:14 AM
w00t!

first!

do you have any idea how hard it was to figure out just what Pikablu looked like? The best I could find was a Pikachu colored blue...

I LOVE the RBY mythology...and the hacks that people find...

huh...an idea for a one-shot, mabye...

a temporal rift in the future that opens once you talk to a certain man in Viridian City, and appears if you fly to Cinnabar...

*grins*

that would be interesting...

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
3rd November 2005, 12:51 PM
I've NEVER seen Pikablu in an OC fanficiton (OC being original character). o.o;; Seriosuly. NEVAH. XD It's the same with Swinub, Piloswine, Qwilfish, etc.
o0;; Really? Than that means I'm the first person to actually use a Piloswine in a Fic! W00t!
Meh, then again, it was a given; you can't have Pryce without Piloswine:D.

Anyway, I came back to say that middle-evolutions are supremely neglected/ Ivysaur? Bulbasaur's cuter, and Venusaur's stronger, so why use it? Seadra? Horsea's cuter and Kingdra's cuter, so why use it? Pupitar? Larvitar's got a better design and Tyranitar's a vicious beat, so why ust it? The list goes on and on. Generally, the only middle evolution you could hope to see is the odd Vigoroth, and that's because it's very different from its pre-evolution and its evolution. Dragonair, too, because it's quite different from Dragonite. And if you do find yourself reading about a middle evolution Pokémon in a Fic, chances are it's still training to evolve into its final form. Most people are more interested in the powerful final forms rather than an almost-there Pokémon. Personally, I like middle forms. They're little-used characters, so they're easy to portray and interesting to read about.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Dragonfree
3rd November 2005, 1:01 PM
Heh, a Quilava has vital importance in my fic, and so far I don't plan for her to evolve. Admittedly she isn't actually in there; quite complicated to explain, but basically she was tricked out of her original trainer who is now a main character who has resolved to get her back. I have a Pupitar too, and although he will evolve, he's getting some subtle attention in his current form. (None of my readers seem to have noticed, though. Bleh. As much as I've been trying to scream out "HEY, THERE IS SOMETHING IMPORTANT ABOUT PUPITAR!" nobody has ever commented on those parts.)

Kiyohime
3rd November 2005, 7:22 PM
I ADORE all of the starter's middle evolutions....Combusken, Croconaw, Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Quilava, Wartortle, Grovyle...

Well, hold the phone...Grovyle's really popular, I think. But all the others are ignored. So Charon the bone-slinging Charmeleon is going to show everyone that final forms are overrated.

On another note, I've NEVER seen people use a Meowth that doesn't belong to Team Rocket. And there's also the sadly overlooked Furret and Raticate.

The Big Al
3rd November 2005, 7:37 PM
I had a Meowth that tried to eat Erika in my fan fiction (granted it wasn't a trainer's Pokemon). Though, yes, even as a background Pokemon, Meowth is scarce.

Also, people will likely write about their favorite Pokemon and tend to stay away from Pokemon they dislike. You couldn't pay me write about a Skitty as the good guy.

Dilasc
3rd November 2005, 7:49 PM
I use a Raticate... or at least, a Rattata, which happened to have the breeding to grant it Flame Wheel. It's going to be fun to write. Furret too, is an enjoyable little furball. Heck, most UU are a ton of fun, especially Cate with the almighty fangs!

Ash_Junior
3rd November 2005, 9:11 PM
And there's also the sadly overlooked Furret and Raticate.

heh...

I've got one in Operation: Celebi.

not exactly a fighting Poke...

she's helping to run the military of one of my created countries, Tintia (my uber country...basically they're way ahead of the world in terms of tech, and they have Poke translators....*shrugs* course, it's got an uber enemy and a bunch of other negatives, so it's not the general n00bish uber-pwnage country)

Sike Saner
3rd November 2005, 9:23 PM
OUs seem to turn me off more as a writer than a reader...Scyther abound like a biblical plague, but if I find Scyther in a quality story, it's still a quality story. But I find myself quite conscious when I'm writing about using OUs. There have been a couple of instances where I would come up with a character, go "Ah, not another one of those," and omit or recast it (OUs that didn't make it into final drafts: Milotic, Blaziken, Metagross, Absol).

However, there have been a couple of instances in which a character has been so firmly and clearly imagined that species recasting was less of an option. One OU I have used is Alakazam. I had always only imagined her as an Alakazam, so I did not wish to recast her. The main reason I chose for her to be an Alakazam is that I wanted a chance to depict one of those with a personality that I'd not commonly seen for the species (most Alakazam I've encountered in fics are either depicted as basically just emotionless brains and a body to carry them, or else act like they have sticks up their butts. Pinecone Tortoise's fic is one of the very few I've seen that actually has a really good and fascinating Alakazam character, as well.).

It is always a treat to see a UU, though. I remember reading a Cacturne fic not too long ago and going "Ah! Awesome!" You know who I'd really like to see? WYNAUT. I virtually never see that thing in fics, which is a shame, because it's fricking adorable.

Bottom line is, though, it's the characters that matter, and a character should amount to more than just its species. While I have culled OUs from my work, and have had fun using some UUs in their place, I recognize that those cullings may not have necessarily been crucial for the quality of the piece. We are free to use any Pok&#233;mon we desire in our work - just as long as we do strive to use it well. After all, to reject a Pok&#233;mon due to its being used by many others before you seems no more independent than it would be to use that Pok&#233;mon due to its being used by so many others. "Rebellion done for its own sake/Does not a true free thinker make" ("Reconsider Everything", 311)

Orion-Sama
3rd November 2005, 9:53 PM
This isn't really a turn-off for me. However, I do prefer to see Pokémon like Omastar than another Charizard...

But still, no matter the Pokémon, as long as it's interesting, I'm fine with it. I've tried to move off this trend myself. In my latest Fic, I'm looking at Pokémon that I find interesting, yet completely ignored. Most of my favortes fill this bill, which is nice. I do have a few Overused Pokémon here and there, but they're somewhat new for me, since they aren't favorites, and I try to make them interesting.

At the end, I don't really care if they're OU or UU, but I do prefer to see more UU lately...

Pinecone Tortoise
4th November 2005, 9:02 AM
I agree with Sike.


"Rebellion done for its own sake/Does not a true free thinker make" ("Reconsider Everything", 311)

However, in a lot of cases, you can see why some pokemon are OU. Like Charizard, for example. It's just really, really cool. So much potential for it to be one of the strongest, most awesomely skilled pokemon around. (I say potential, cause it can go the other way as well.) As much as I've tried to be original in my fic, even I succumbed to slotting a Charizard in. Which leads me to the second point that almost everyone managed to make. It's all about the way the pokemon are used in YOUR fic.

The Charizard I spoke of is uber. Strong, fast and trained to perform complex move combos with unnatural precision, it's about as uber as your going to get. Which is why it doesn't belong to the newbie trainer (main character). It belongs to one of the most powerful trainers of all the regions. He's uber, but it's a justified uber.

There's such UU pokemon in there as Ana, the Mr. Mime, and Red, the Bellsprout. Like the Charizard, these are ubers belonging to uber trainers. (YES, FOLKS, WE HAVE UBER BELLSPROUT!!!!!) These pokemon are awesome. Why aren't they getting anymore attention? (No, don't use them! Then I won't seem so original! ^^;)

Incidentally, when you guys were naming cute UU pokemon, what about Ledyba? In my mind, that thing is about as cute as it gets and it's avoided like the Plague! Go Ledyba!! (Not to mention Venomoth/nat, Phanpy, Whismur, Skitty.... )

But OU is not a turn off. UU can be, if it's done in the wrong way. Depends on the story to decide the quality.

And hands off my Bellsprout!

Piney.
;204;;324;

Ash_Junior
5th November 2005, 7:33 AM
just out of curiousity, would you consider trained Weedle/Beedrill UU or OU?

let me point out that I'm askign about TRAINED Weedle/Drills...I, for one, use wild Beedrill as dangerous things if I need a quick antagonist.

but I don't remember seeing a trained 'Drill outside of Retribution (my fic)...

Pinecone Tortoise
5th November 2005, 1:05 PM
A_J: Could be wrong, but I've often found Beedrills are only used as wild pokemon to chase the protagonist (as in the anime). So as trained pokemon, they're probably UU, but OU in the wild.

Piney.
;204;;324;

Infinite Master Sceptile
5th November 2005, 2:00 PM
Is it going too far to have a character that uses only UU/NU?
His team would be: Dunsparce(his starter), Tangela, Nosepass, Qwilfish, Mr.Mime, Parasect.
Too much UU goodness?
I think first time fic writers should not attempt a linear journey fic until they have mastered the art.

Dragon trainer
5th November 2005, 6:34 PM
would you say that cyndaquil's used a lot as a starter or main pokemon? I'm just curious as i may use it a fiction

Pinecone Tortoise
5th November 2005, 10:10 PM
would you say that cyndaquil's used a lot as a starter or main pokemon? I'm just curious as i may use it a fiction

Pretty much all of the fire-type starters are OU. Cyndaquil is no where near as OU as Charmander, but out of the Johto starters, it's the most often used.

Strangely, though, I was under the impression that Torchic weren't that popular. I was figuring that with their dual-fighting type, people would be reluctant to use them because it makes them weak to the ever popular flying and psychic types? Opinions, anyone?

Piney.
;204;;324;

Iveechan
6th November 2005, 3:00 AM
Is it going too far to have a character that uses only UU/NU?
His team would be: Dunsparce(his starter), Tangela, Nosepass, Qwilfish, Mr.Mime, Parasect.
Too much UU goodness?
I think first time fic writers should not attempt a linear journey fic until they have mastered the art.

In my opinion, those Pokemon don't strike me as interesting. I'm all for UU given the glory they deserve, but personally, those Pokemon just don't catch my attention. Look at them... except for Mr. Mime, all of them are "grounded", that is, they seem slow and Quilfish is handicapped by being water-bound. People should not only use Pokemon they like, but also think about how a trainer is to interact with their Pokemon and how the Pokemon will perform in battle. I just can't see most of those Pokemon being able to carry out an EDGE OF YOUR SEAT battle... Mr. Mime is versatile and so is Tangela, though.

And about the Torchic/fighting thing... people generally avoid Fighting types because of their anthropomorphic appearance, not so much their weaknesses. And a lot of Pokemon fans dislike the concept of training something that looks humanish. Blaziken is anthro but still very beastly in appearance, so it's animalish enough so most writers feel comfortable about writing about it.

Infinite Master Sceptile
11th November 2005, 11:55 AM
Yeah, It sucks, I know. But Dunsparce never gets glory. And if it was a really fast Dunsparce, battles would not be slow. Seadra and Raticate would probably be better. It seems they are constantly shafted.
I think fics are often more unique if normal starters are not used.
Besides that, these shoudn't be used unless you are an excellent writer:
Pikachu
Eevee
Vulpix

Kiyohime
11th November 2005, 6:17 PM
*_* I LOVE the Zigzagoon and Rattata lines. They could have so much personality...Zigzagoon runs around like a kleptomaniac and steals anything shiny and Rattata runs around biting everything, much like Totodile. They'd make great characters in a fanfiction.

Dilasc
11th November 2005, 7:11 PM
Run arounds and bites things randomly? That's a bit cliche. Heck, I use boh a Totodile and a Rattata, and neither of them have an insatiable biting urge. If they did only bite things, they'd be Pokebots, and Pokebots are bad!

Kiyohime
11th November 2005, 8:42 PM
Well, I was sort of thinking in the direction of this:

Guy: *looks around then screams*
Rattata: "Ooh, tastes like chicken.."
Guy. "MAH LUG!"
*Rattata scuttles off to sample someone else's nose*
*in the distance, someone else screams*
Rattata: "Tuna fish!"

I don't know if that'd be cliche, but it sure as hell wouldn't be Pokebot-ish.

Sike Saner
11th November 2005, 9:13 PM
You know what else I have never seen used as a character - and I do mean character, something with a personality and a purpose and not just a Pok&#233;mon on someone's team - Electrode. I mean, I know it's not what a lot of folks would consider "cute and cuddly", and being just a ball, its body language and the things it could actually do would be rather limited, but hey, just a nifty challenge, I say. Anyway, wherever I have seen Electrode in fics, it's always just used as a hazard (not unlike Beedrill, in a way); just a booby trap, a bomb.

Dilasc
11th November 2005, 9:19 PM
Electrode, eh? Sounds like a challenge, and I think I'm game enough for the challenge. A shame in my fic that I even went through the trouble of giving Electrode a ficticious fighting type hybrid evolution.

I must admit though, I'm not so sure myself why people don't try out the fastest thunder wave in existence for their stories...still, I think it's a challenge that I like.

Magi of all
11th November 2005, 11:51 PM
This thread feels like a discussion of the pokemon in my as-of-yet unwritten Fic Revenge of Shane(working title). His Team has most of the pokemon mentioned. (Beedrill and Cubone to be exact). One of the Pokemon I want to see used more is Porygon. Still, any pokemon works as long as it has a purpouse. When a pokemon get the same amount of time as Brocks Geodude in Jhoto, you need to get rid of it

Ryano Ra
12th November 2005, 12:13 AM
You know what else I have never seen used as a character - and I do mean character, something with a personality and a purpose and not just a Pokémon on someone's team - Electrode. I mean, I know it's not what a lot of folks would consider "cute and cuddly", and being just a ball, its body language and the things it could actually do would be rather limited, but hey, just a nifty challenge, I say. Anyway, wherever I have seen Electrode in fics, it's always just used as a hazard (not unlike Beedrill, in a way); just a booby trap, a bomb.Well, I'm assuming that you'd be pleased to know that I have clans of insane Electrode within my Fanfiction, and not being used only for bombs and booby traps, but large illusions and characterization. I love Electrode, I'm thinking about raising one on my emerald team, actually. 8D

Overused Pokemon are never a turnoff, in my opinion, just as long as they have character and considerable battling skills, skills that are somehow unique from the rest of their species. I like unique overused Pokemon, though normal ones aren't so harmful to read. I love Vulpix/Ninetales/Pikachu/Raichu/Pichu, so I have no complaints there, either.

Yuugis Black Magician
12th November 2005, 1:33 AM
It seems that "overused" Pokemon haven't been used in so long that they're becoming underused. I've seen way more fics with Charmeleon then Charizard.

For me, I just use whatever Pokemon I like. I happen to like Blaziken a lot, and I used it in my last fic. Doesn't hurt the story, and I get to write about one of my favorite Pokemon.

I think people should just write about the Pokemon they want to write about, and not worry what people are going to think. It's your story, and if you limit yourself because of the audience, it's not fair to you.

*Siggie*

Seriously, what you just defined is a real writer. I use this same mindset for my writing.

Jesus, how long have I been gone?

*shamelessplugreturntowritingbrin*

Ryano Ra
13th November 2005, 7:42 PM
Exactly, Brinstar.

Authors write about what they want to. It may be a turnoff, but that's like the viewers dictating the story themselves. The story could be very good, but yet, it is judged by the use of Pokemon. I always use Milotic and Arcanine in my stories, and people still read them regardless. Pokemon are pokemon. If we used them all constantly, they'd all be overused, and what would be left to write about? Just write about whatever Pokemon you want to. Let your story tell the rest.

Rex Kamex
13th November 2005, 9:33 PM
OU Pokemon? Well, as already stated the Fire Starters are OU. But if you take an UO Pokemon and give an unique personality, it might work. Exe:
A vain Electabuzz
A bloodthirsty Kingdra
An angsty Teddiursa

The list just goes on.

Then you're gonna love Harriet the strong Magikarp from Pokiman.


My opinion on overused Pokemon is the same as most people here. If the "overused" Pokemon has an original personality, I'd like it better. Of course, it's understandable that some Pokemon have stereotypical personalities.

Of course, a bad underused Pokemon can turn anybody off as well.