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Breezy
16th November 2005, 8:14 AM
Oh, this one is sure to light a fire . . . . er, baby.

So last night, during I suppose one would call "PMS," I posted this rant in the Summer Fanfiction Awards and how to improve the awards for the Christmas Awards blah blah blah on how popularity based this season's award show was and how the lack of participation was a huge shame because it could of made the outcome of the awards and the winners different.

Then the PMs came piling in.

Some people found it eye-opening for some reason (I don't know how, I'm pretty sure I said something along the same lines in the PokéOscars), some found it offensive, and some found it enlightning.

I'm a bit ashamed at what I wrote actually now that I look at it twice. I mean I agree with it still, but I didn't really look in the other person's shoes. The one that won the awards. Usually I can because I usually do win something, but now I get to imagine it (hurrah.)

There's two sides of the story regarding popularity in the award show. There's the underrated author's side which I somewhat debated for last night. They too were disappointed with the outcome of the awards (though for the same reasons, I'm not sure of) and used the "use scratch my back, I scratch yours," philosophy of why people won.

That, in a sense, is true. Us AIM fanfic chatters would rather read stuff by our friends than by some random person that lurks around the forums. I know I'd rather review a fic by my twinny, student, or bestest pal first before tackling the list of random writers. Be honest: Did you actually read all the stories in the categories you voted for? Or did you just skim it, looking for basic plotline, description, and decent grammar? Was your vote already set in stone even before the nominees were rolling in? Like, "I'm so voting for Serpent Syra for best Fantasy writer because he's . . . uh . . . hawt?" (haha, sorry Rawr X3)

Another thing. Bragging rights. If a popular author wins, nothing big will happen to their reputation, but if an underdog or underrated author wins, their rep will grow into something huge where maybe they can join the ranks.

However . . .

One person's attitude toward the summer awards irks me to the point where I just wanted to smack him/her. Repeatedly. Upside the head. He/she made valid arguements and everything like what I said above, but his/her die-hard attitude toward the winnners made me double take and look at the other side.

Now, imagine yourself in the other person's shoes where you won a shitload of awards. You've got people harassing you left and right for winning so many times, and it makes you regret even writing. How would you feel? Pretty bad huh? Like you don't even deserve to write.

Actually, I've been through something like this at ff.net where people through **** fits because I reached the 500 review mark while they barely had 50 reviews. Let me tell you it's not a nice feeling. I worked my *** off trying to draw people in, trying them to like my fic and characters and then you have people piss and moan because they don't have a way to stand out themselves.

This of course, can also be blamed on the popular author too. Because they are reviewed so many times, the other fics get pushed down to the second page where we all know no one goes.

You don't get a rep overnight. You have to build it gradually. Basically, you can't just sit on your arse.

I'd also like to discuss this Christmas awards as well. It's great how there seems to be no way that people can depend on their friends to win, but what if the friend does believe that they do deserve to win "best one-liner" or "best character in a multi-chapter fic that starts with the letter "B"?"

But come on. Do you really think that people are going to IM or PM each other to say, "Vote for me and I'll vote for you?" Is there no faith in our morality? Do you really think that the "popular" authors are going to go around and do something like that? We have values; I'm sure if someone asked them to do that they'd laugh at it and/or say no.

This is their opinion. Not the host's. >>

There's no spark to it either. If I were underrated, I would want to enter the awards to try and beat the popular authors so that maybe my reputation will grow like there's and I can proudly brag about it. =P

I should post that there though. But it does relate to popularity anyways.

Anyways, that's just my rant. Contribute to it or argue with it want to. Or close it. Whatever. Just had to get that out before someone with a true case of PMS did.

Pissy Missy Sissies. Yeah. That's what PMS means in case you're young and/or wondering.

Dilasc
16th November 2005, 8:53 AM
Oh, this one is sure to light a fire . . . . er, baby.

I want to light a baby on fire!


Another thing. Bragging rights. If a popular author wins, nothing big will happen to their reputation, but if an underdog or underrated author wins, their rep will grow into something huge where maybe they can join the ranks.

Here's a thing to think about. If a popular author wins, does that author feel as rewarded. It's sort of like a how an athlete would feel if he beat 15 fat men at the hundred yard dash. It's not very exhilerating if there's no true contest.


You don't get a rep overnight. You have to build it gradually. Basically, you can't just sit on your arse.

This is the computer age. I can sit on my lazy rump all day long and destroy the stock market by hacking if I were evil, or something. All in all, when it comes to computers, you can sit on your rear end all day long.

Anyway, this post was pointless, except for the middle one. I just get a kick out of wordplay like that...

Breezy
16th November 2005, 8:57 AM
I want to light a baby on fire!So do I. :(

Man, that's so ebil. XD

Here's a thing to think about. If a popular author wins, does that author feel as rewarded. It's sort of like a how an athlete would feel if he beat 15 fat men at the hundred yard dash. It's not very exhilerating if there's no true contest.I didn't feel special when I won the last one. But if you look at the five million word speeches made by the winners that are popular . . . *shrugs* XP Popular authors feel reassured that people like their fics which in itself is like that athlete who knows he's not out of shape if he beat 15 people.

This is the computer age. I can sit on my lazy rump all day long and destroy the stock market by hacking if I were evil, or something. All in all, when it comes to computers, you can sit on your rear end all day long.Sarcasm, ew haha. You know what I mean. You can't just expect a rep to come to you and magically bless with you superpowers.

Typhlogirl
16th November 2005, 9:12 AM
While I disagree with your...erm...lighting babies on fire philosophy (XDD), I guess I kinda can agree with your rant/essay/post/whatever.

To me, the awards did seem a little rigged towards the more popular and well known authors. I for one find it infuriating that there are so many fantastic fic's simply being ignored, *coughREJECTEDcough* but I guess that's life.

What I really think would be good if some of the more skilled and well-known authors went out and reviewed the lesser known fics. That way everybody wins. I think. Well, it might get a wider range of nominee's!

Back on topic. Well, as on topic as I can go. I think jealousy by authors who don't get many reviews towards authors who do is understandable, but should be kept private. Flaming an author simply because their fic is getting more reviews is stupid and above all-childish. But what really ticks me off is people complaining that their fic is not getting many reviews when there is a whole thread full of people waiting to review. -_- But I guess it can be justified if you worked really hard on a story and only get about ten replies.

I honestly didn't expect any of the more mature authors to pm their friends and go 'I'll vote for you if you vote for me!!'. Come on people. How childishly desperate can you get? It's just fun!

Actually, I'll emphasise that point. The awards are nothing more than fun. It's just a game really. There's no need for an all out war to break out between everyone. I agree, the results were a bit weird, but bleh. It's just fun right?

Right?

Oh bleh. 'Tis just my meaningless opinion.

-;157;

Shadowcat
16th November 2005, 10:25 AM
I voted according to my own descision. No one can persuade me to change my descision.

Anyway, I agree with Typhlogirl. Saber might only want to try out for one to about five awards this time, as she already has so many titles to her name. Give the rest of us, the underdogs, a chance.

Seriously, people don't read your fic unless you have a 5 or 4 Star to your fic, ya' know? People are really particular about that.

Also, Some people just are closet readers. There are tons of closet readers. They don't review, which is sad. I have about 30+ views for my fic, and only about three people reviewed. It's sad. This happens to mainly most under rated authors on this forum.

Dragonfree
16th November 2005, 1:12 PM
Nobody expects authors to exchange votes with their friends, but you can't deny that you have a subconscious bias when you like or dislike the author. :/

Elemental Charizam
16th November 2005, 1:33 PM
Seriously, people don't read your fic unless you have a 5 or 4 Star to your fic, ya' know? People are really particular about that.
Trust me, it's little help ;)

I can see the problem, but I'm not sure if the limiting the amount of awards thing is the right way to go. It stops people voting for who they want, and if you can't do that, what's the point of voting anyway? You wouldn't vote for an undeserving person (on purpose ;) ) would you?

And if you have to stop the prize dogs raising (forgive the unflattering analogy) then where's the glory in winning anyway?

I'm kinda glad I won't be in the next awards :p

Insincerus
16th November 2005, 2:52 PM
I'd like to say more on the subject, and I completely agree with you, but being an author that just got his act together on sticking to one fic, I'm just as sad as the underrated authors. For example, my friend (who I won't mention, though you can obviously check awards to see who) won the Most Underrated Author award. How shameful. That's just like giving a damn medal to someone and saying, "Here's for not being noticed and being completely invisible while other people reigned over you as you slave over your fic." It is a shame that other people would even GIVE an award for this; just complete bullsh*t.

I'm just as sad as the underrated authors, because I share their feelings, because I've been left in the dust before, which is why most of my fics fail to make the front page. People need to take in consideration other people's fics. For example, I've seen a few fic-whor*s (couldn't think of any other name) that just completely revolve around themselves, and never give reviews to others, just revolving on their ball-of-a-fic, waiting for people to come praise them. This makes me angry, because while other people are being open-minded (such as I, because I started reviewing fics again as well), they are being selfish and conceited to the point where the only threads they check are the ones in the Author's Cafe, and their own fic.

Lady Myuu
16th November 2005, 6:04 PM
BABY ON FIRE, BABY ON FIRE!

*gets marshmellows* smores anyone?

<< >>';

um,

hi.

Now to the subject at hand that I seem to like to get lost at.

I agree mostly to what Breezy has said, it is true that there is a problem with alot of GOOD authors being ignored. But it happens, I mean, reviewers can't catch everyone and it isn't there job too, they just want to read a fic that intrests them.

Sometimes the best fics out there are just the ones that intrest more reviewers then others. Its not that they are better its the fact that they just aim at a genre and a level of understanding then others.

I work my butt off on my main story, its almost a year old now, ten chapters long and three pages of reivews. Now I would LOVE more reviews and I would LOVE more attention. But I don't get it because I don't update fast enough. Some authors can just update on a whim of whenever when others have other things or there writing style doesn't work like that. My styleis where once I start writing I don't stop others are write a little here, write a little there. THink about it ect. And there are other kinds.

Authors work hard.

Reviewers read what they are inclined to read.

the real problem is I think is the closet readers. They don't review, they don't vote, they don't do anything but read. We love you guys, thank you for reading our fics.

BUT FOR THE LOVE OF THE HOLY GOD OF CHOCOLATE REVIEW.

VOTE.

NOMINATE.

PROTICIPATE.

LIVE.

LOVE.

ect.

o.o yep, pet peeve right there.

I'm helping with the awards this time around, I am looking for better ways to help other unknown authors get noticed, getting nominations and votes as well. I want to try and make it fun to be apart of it while still keeping true to the fics and reviewers :D

Dias
16th November 2005, 7:01 PM
It has long since been my belief that Awards should be terminated and never revived on the grounds that a.) they are pointless in essence, b.) they encourage the proliferation of the written word via extrinsic motivation rather than intrinsic, and c.) they, plain and simple, cause too many problems. Threads such as this prove that.

That is all I have to say.

Dilasc
16th November 2005, 8:31 PM
The effect of popularity has effects outside of fanfic writing. If I talk, for instance, people here may take my words with a grain of salt, but if someone who is popular says the exact same thing, lay down the friggin' red carpet and make way!

All in all, popular people grow more popular, while the unpopular grow less popular, and the middle class stays the same. Yeesh, I feel like an economics course, for criminy sakes.

The fact is, I'm not dense. I check the 'Who's online now' feature frequently to see if people are reading my work at all. As cruel and invasive as it sounds, I click on the names of those in the fanfic section to see if they're reading my work! Usually, I am disappointed. Even if I update my thread to page one, nothing! The feeling is not even enviating, it's depressing to be so invisible.

Well, uh, that's basically a rant of my own there. Enjoy it any way you wish, really.

Lady Myuu
16th November 2005, 8:36 PM
... o.o I DO THAT TOO! and I thought I was weird for checking every person to see if they were reading my fic.

<< >> I am not alone ;; so happy.


quote by Dilasc
All in all, popular people grow more popular, while the unpopular grow less popular, and the middle class stays the same. Yeesh, I feel like an economics course, for criminy sakes.

oh the irony of it all. << so true it hurts.

Ledian_X
16th November 2005, 8:42 PM
Dias, Dias. It's okay. Really. You gotta give people a chance ya know? They'll get to it when they can. Now I admit there've been popularity contests here. Actually, all of SPP has had them! Trust me, I know. I was admin.

All I can think of is that yeah, we need some people to call things down the middle. Maybe a non author could work?

LX

Dragonfree
16th November 2005, 10:34 PM
I'd like to say more on the subject, and I completely agree with you, but being an author that just got his act together on sticking to one fic, I'm just as sad as the underrated authors. For example, my friend (who I won't mention, though you can obviously check awards to see who) won the Most Underrated Author award. How shameful. That's just like giving a damn medal to someone and saying, "Here's for not being noticed and being completely invisible while other people reigned over you as you slave over your fic." It is a shame that other people would even GIVE an award for this; just complete bullsh*t.

I'm just as sad as the underrated authors, because I share their feelings, because I've been left in the dust before, which is why most of my fics fail to make the front page. People need to take in consideration other people's fics. For example, I've seen a few fic-whor*s (couldn't think of any other name) that just completely revolve around themselves, and never give reviews to others, just revolving on their ball-of-a-fic, waiting for people to come praise them. This makes me angry, because while other people are being open-minded (such as I, because I started reviewing fics again as well), they are being selfish and conceited to the point where the only threads they check are the ones in the Author's Cafe, and their own fic.
Now, now... the "Most Underrated Author" is an award for those who deserve more attention than they get, and I see nothing shameful about getting that award.

Lady Barbara
16th November 2005, 11:13 PM
A non-author is a person who doesn't write. That designation wouldn't seem quite right for a fanfiction award.

To 'underrate' means to assess, rate, or estimate too low. For an author, it implies that their work is actually superior to that of other authors.

Elemental Charizam
16th November 2005, 11:31 PM
I was admin.
Lest we forget ;)

I agree, the underrated award means that you've been unfairly ignored, which is pretty much the best thing you can be told if you've been unlucky enough to be ignored in the first place.

The Big Al
16th November 2005, 11:33 PM
"Underrate" simply means a fic or author haven't been given the credit they deserve. I would call Yamato-san underrated because despite his fan fic being top notch, his readers are relatively small in numbers and he tends to not get recognition in the awards.

SnoringFrog
16th November 2005, 11:45 PM
Seriously, people don't read your fic unless you have a 5 or 4 Star to your fic, ya' know? People are really particular about that.

Actually, not all people, at least not me, even care about the stars. I can't remember checking for a fic by how many starts it had. (I don't even know how many mine has!) I normally look for authors whose work I've read and enjoyed before, or others that I have heard ate some of the best. I do this so that I can read teh best works, and hopefully learn how to better my own work. If I had the time, I would try to read most of the fics here, but I can hardly keep up with the few I read, and still write my own.

Dilasc
17th November 2005, 12:23 AM
Lots of us will do almost anything to get reviews. I'm sure I speak for everyone who is as forsaken as I am or worse when I say what I say.

I am a diligent worker. I'm careful, I'm as quick to update as possible, I make fifty gosh dangedable advertisements for my work in the advertisements thread for cryin' out loud! Yet there's little progress as far as readers. Granted, the few who read are for the most part amazed, but they are just that, few.

I'm sure this simple sample of my own struggle to the top can be related to by every writer who suffers a lack of respect and popularity. All in all, it's worse than if I were to be abused. At least there'd be attention in some way shape or form, but in this case, that doesn't happen.

Let's face it, we write to entertain, and get respected. If we are not gaining readers, we are neither entertaining, or getting respect. It's a simple fact, and it tears me up inside to be on the lower rung of society when I know I belong higher up on the notability charts. I'm sure man of my fellow underdogs can agree that they too need better treatment, and more respect earning chances.

Power Shot
17th November 2005, 1:18 AM
Respect. It's something earned, not something given to you on a platter. I despise people who haven't worked for the respect theyearn, and hold underdogs in the highest regard. I myself am an underdog, and am reduced to writing shipping fics to get reviews.

You must work to be noticed, or else what you get means nothing.

Yamato-san
17th November 2005, 1:19 AM
Actually, I'll emphasise that point. The awards are nothing more than fun. It's just a game really. There's no need for an all out war to break out between everyone. I agree, the results were a bit weird, but bleh. It's just fun right?

Actually, to several of us, awards are important as they're a means of getting ahead. Winning somethings means you gets you quite a bit of publicity, which leads to you getting noticed, which leads to more people reading your work.

Anyway, I've been thinking.... f*** the awards! You know what? I asked just two things from my readers. One is to review my work and help me improve on the storyline so I can eventually finalize the script before starting the daunting task of a doujinshi project. The other is to get me some publicity with which to attract even more potential reviewers. You know what I keep getting? Complete and utter bulls***! Only my most devoted readers are bothering to nominate me in these things, and even then, I'll end up without a single god damn vote. I'd be better off just selling a f***ing kidney to buy ad-space from several popular sources.

But maybe I've had it all wrong..... what can I expect from people on a fanfic forum? I'm not writing a novel, I'm not writing a play. What I'm working on is the early draft of what will eventually become a manga. You hear me? Manga! What the hell can I expect from a place that seems to have more experience dealing with novelizations than anything else? I want focus on my storyline, dammit! My plots, my events, my characterization, my what-have-yas, my etceteras and my etceteras, etc. I'll admit, the praise for my script was nice at first, but now it's friggin redundant, and it seems to me like, the few times I do get a comment, people here will put more emphasis on crap like that and my grammar rather than the actual storyline. Speaking of which, the script's about the ONLY thing I get any attention whatsoever for. I bet I could make a fic where the main character's the son of a professor, who's given Mew, Celebi, Jirachi.... oh hell, all 386 monsters for his starters, and he proceeds to kill every opponent just by tapping them, and it's not intended to be a parody comedy either.... but, it's still nicely scripted, so you could all care less, couldn't ya? Even when I specify that I'd like to hear more comments on the story, I almost never get them. I even go so far as to set up a meeting on an AIM chatroom, and nobody showed up. If not storyline.... at least hearing confirmation from someone very knowledgeable in Japan about the accuracy of my cultural usage would be nice as well.

You know what I could use? A professional anime/manga reviewer. Just one of those would show me more promise than all you schmoes combined..... no offense meant towards The Big Al and some others. This chewing-out's mainly directed to those damned closet readers and such. Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna go post a question in the reviewer thread.

IceKing
17th November 2005, 2:44 AM
Ok, THIS IS IT. Yamato San, I have just had about ENOUGH of you and your stupid ridiculous story of the great tragedy of your undderrated fic. It got rather old last PokeOscars. All you ever do is complain complain complain and I am not taking another word of it! You must have one of the biggest egos I have ever seen, and I swear keep this up and your oversized head is going to explode!

Your attitude is just plain annoying and I am not going to stand and watch you insult your reviewers and the rest of Serebii. First off, you keep complaining about how much a nice manga reviewer is what you need because you are creating the world's greatest manga. So you know what? If your precious little fic doesn't belong in a fanfiction forum like you say GO GET OF HERE AND FIND SOME MANGA FORUM.

Another thing that plain sickens me is how you insult your reviewers and say that they're not good enough for you. You keep saying not enough people read your fic? WHO THEWANTS TO BE A REVIEWER FOR A PERSON WHO TREATS THEM LIKE THE WAY YOU DO! They are not your little servants who are supposed to worship your fic and go spread its almighty word like it is Jesus or something. You have absolutely NO right to call the people here "promiseless shmoes"

Who do you think you are to call us a bunch of promiseless shmoes? Again, I promise you that your head is eventually going explode and leave bits of brain everywhere. Don't act so surprised that we're not the perfect tools to form your little doujinushi because this is specifically a fanfiction forum to help out your writing skills and you've known it for as long as you posted your script or whatever you wanna call it.

And please, stop acting like your fic is the best thing in the world since burning babies. Yes, it is good from what I have heard but if anything I think you are overrating it too much. Don't expect to have a crowd of eager followers around it, wanting it to be the best thing in the world and just sitting still, waiting to join your chat room. People have lives outside of wanting to worship your fic.

You are NOT the first person to not get enough reviews so I HIGHLY suggest you stop acting like it. There are many other amazing fics out there that no one notices (which is the entire point of this thread...) and you dont hear other people whining as much as you do. And look at the ones who do! Do you honestly want to be like them?

So basically, here's my two cents for you. If you don't like Serebii, if we promiseless shmoes aren't good enough for you, THEN YOU CAN JUST GET THE HELL OUT!


Edit: Sorry for my previous language, that was uncalled for.

Quackerdrill
17th November 2005, 3:45 AM
Welp, though I'm kinda scared by that, erm, last post, I will attempt to give my opinion. First of all, I cannot agree with the fact that the awards were or will be a popularity contest, at least not completely. I, myself, would not even think of voting for a friend's fic that was rather lackluster over another fic by an unknown that was much better. My first priority is whether or not they truly deserve the award or not. That is the meaning of awards, isn't it? Plus, popularity is relative: I agree that one cannot become "popular" overnight, but one may view popular as having over five regular reviewers. (i.e. Me... I set my sights looow. XD) See, a small group of fans could have even more effect than a complete "everybody loves ya" kinda thing. It all depends on the person's ethics, that all.

But getting back on track, I believe awards shows are not to be taken too seriously. They are mainly for fun, ya know, and some people need to realize that it is not the end of the world if you do not win. But just because a few things need fixing does not necessarily mean that the whole deal be removed- the awards are a nice incentive to those who put in the hard work.

Basically, I think that it being a "popularity contest" is probably far from it; it's mainly people that don't listen, participate, or just complain. that is the thing that needs to be fixed, not the system. ^_^

By the way:
Us AIM fanfic chatters would rather read stuff by our friends than by some random person that lurks around the forums. I know I'd rather review a fic by my twinny, student, or bestest pal first before tackling the list of random writers. Be honest: Did you actually read all the stories in the categories you voted for? Or did you just skim it, looking for basic plotline, description, and decent grammar? Was your vote already set in stone even before the nominees were rolling in? Like, "I'm so voting for Serpent Syra for best Fantasy writer because he's . . . uh . . . hawt?" (haha, sorry Rawr X3)Not to nitpick, but I sense a slight bit of hipocracy here. This is not exactly the best influence upon newer members.... -_-; Not to be mean, though. ^_^ It is just human nature, after all...

Yamato-san
17th November 2005, 5:20 AM
Ice King, do me a favor and go to Hell! First off, yes, I'm arrogant and egotistical, but this isn't my attempt at "drama" to expect everyone to take pity on me. This isn't just another complaint about how I did in a recent award. This time, I'm outright stating that I've had enough, and I'm not even gonna bother with those awards anymore. I'm not pressuring my audience to nominate me, or vote for me, or what the f*** ever anymore, because I know damn well what the results are gonna end up being.

Second, I'll have you know that it's people like you that sicken me the most. As you may recall, I've tried that "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" routine before, and you know what I get? Nothing. Worse than nothing, I get people like you bugging on AIM every second, thinking I know how to write a story like your's. Oh no, you don't ask for opinions on what I think is good or bad, or tips on what you could improve on. Hell, I only mentioned about one or two errors in your first chapter, which mainly related to anime continuity rather than writing itself, but you constantly got on my back asking me for advice on writing a comedy fic, something I just didn't know about. Then there was Strawberry Delcatty.... don't get me started on the living hell I've went through with her.... then there were a couple other fics I forget about in which I left a comment and never saw the author leave a comment for me in return.

Third, I'm not treating my readers like servants. I'm just doing as every other author does. I just expect them to leave behind some kind of comment.... do you like the story, do you hate the story, what's good about it, what could use improvement? I practically beg my audience to comment on something, even hit me with as much negative criticism as possible, I don't care as long as you can justify it. Yet, there's never any results. I do not intend for it to be the world's greatest manga, as you say, but I do feel that it could be much better than it is, which is why I'd like to know what an audience thinks of the direction it's headed in right now. I had that chatroom scheduled specifically for people who weren't afraid of spoilers so I could discuss with them certain things I weren't very comfortable with in future plots. And about treating closet readers like dirt..... you might as well shun several other members on this thread, because I don't see them with a very high opinion of closet readers either. Oh, and I didn't say everyone was a promiseless shmoe, just them. It's just that, now that I think about it, I have a better alternative than putting up with this.

I posted the story here in hopes of getting comments on it.... in spite of all I've said, perhaps I'll still continue posting it here, simply because I at least have a couple guys here who aren't closet readers and can actually bother to comment worth a damn.... and perhaps I'm clinging onto the vain hope that a good reviewer will come around here, on a forum with thousands of users (I met Frostweaver on Pokecommunity, after all). It'll still be available for readers to look at, but I'm not gonna expect much out of here anymore. I've thought of better alternatives, so I'm gonna try them, not bother with this place, and you're not even gonna put up with my complaining anymore, Ice King. But before I start ignoring the contests completely, I just had to get that off my chest, and since you had to reply, I had to give people a good idea of what kind of scum you are. By the way....


And please, stop acting like your fic is the best thing in the world since burning babies.

Says a lot about you, don't it?

xXSaberXx
17th November 2005, 5:22 AM
>__> Wellllll, considering I am and probably WAS the main problem of the Summer Awards, I might as well contribute here.

WELPS. I feel like dog poop, for lack of a profanity. There is nothing worse then winning and then getting smashed by those who hate you for it. It's like finally getting a pat on the back and then stabbed in the spine by that same person. Not fun. Not fun at all.

I NEVER intended and plotted to take away all the awards for my own gain, NOR did I plan to steal them from the better and more underrated authors on the forums. It happened. For whatever reason, I happened. So now I feel like crap, and not writing anymore. I would like to thank everyone just for that. My creative spirit has been doused to a mere flicker, and my muse has fled. 'Tis a pity, and I know I shouldn't be a wuss about it, but still.

It was nice when I won, but then to have me shot down out of the sky while still happy and leave my heart to bleed on the ground and recognize it was killed was kind of mean.

I am not blaming anyone for anything on any parts of what they said or will say. All I am trying to do is ask for the forgiveness of the fanfiction community at large. Next time I'll save myself the touble and stop writing.

It IS only some awards that probably don't matter. They aren't real, it was just for the lousy summer. I probably shouldn't be bi*tching about this, so I'll stop. I just wish I could have been happier about recieving them. It's so nice to be happy once and a while, espically when you feel you have worked for it, and you know your fic has touched lives.

As Dias said, these awards are mostly a very big waste of time. Now I see why. Too much conflict, too much blather and blither and spite. Nothing worth seeing or winning, for the awards don't even matter. It's just a judgement of your peers. Nothing definte, or clear. It's not a fact, solid or concrete. It's merely an idea, just as life is an idea.

I am fully excited for the Christmas awards, but of course, not going to participate. It wasn't my choice that I got nominated for so many things. I did not tell anyone to nominate me, except for one catergory, Most Accepting Author. That was all I wanted to win, but people now say I should have just gone for one or two awards? On the contrary, I had no control over it at all. Sure, I could have PMed NiGHTs and asked him to take me off the list, but this is a judgement of my peers, not determined nor uncredited by myself.

On the regard of scratching backs. I only had two Serebii.net fanfic authors on my list before the awards were announced, Sike Saner, and Scrap. Therefore, I did not participate in that whole revenue. Those to blame evidently didn't win, as I scraped most of the awards myself. Not to sound big-headed, I really couldn't feel worse about it.

There are some things that, I believe, lead to jealousy. Yes, there was the issue that the awards had not very many votes, but then, why am I being the one targeted, and not the people who one just two or three? Do you people in general think I am unworthy? If so, please tell me now, and I will gladly relinquish control and the right to my awards back into the public's hands. For the awards gave me happiness, bequeathed upon by my peers. And so shall they be ripped from my hands if the need arises, taken by my peers.

To conclude, I am sincerely sorry. That's all there is to it. Writing is not merely a thing you do for popularity, it is the expression of our soul.

I believe we forget that sometimes, wrapped up in the reviews and stars and views and closet reviewers and the popularity thing.

Forgive me, dear people of SPPf. Where there is happiness, there is now saddness. I have suffered, and for that, I am grateful. What you people have showed me is utmost compassion, and for that I am eternally in your debt.


Sincerely,

Saber.

Dilasc
17th November 2005, 5:34 AM
This monkey bashing is rather silly. What point does badmouthing the winners get across anyway? What purpose does it serve? These awards should probably be eradicated, and left with us simply getting the enjoyment of reading and reading alone... uh, and writing too.

Honestly, if all this does is beset hatred, then maybe I would want to be excluded... yet, I dont want to be excluded, so don't quote me on that at all! I need my chance to shine and feel the thrill of appreciation from complete and utter strangers. Why? Because I'm a forsaken writer, mysterious and not well renown.

All in all, I don't hate any of the big winners at all (though you still owe me that review you practically announced promising me in your thread, Saber), after all, I wasn't even IN this awards.

Had I been, I may have won... well, maybe nothing. I didn't win last year's, and maybe not this years either, but I'm still going to try, because Dust to Deceit is my baby, and a work of art in the works with a growing and evolving storyline and many, many colorful characters. I'm proud when mommy hangs my pretty picture on the fridge... uh, that's a metaophoric term, of course. Anyway, I forsee trouble, but I know that if I win, I have one thing in my defense... I don't got no friends. Wait... that's not something to brag about.

Darn! How depressing.

Lady Myuu
17th November 2005, 5:36 AM
... shesh people, taking it a bit far? Your hurting others. Relax its just some awards and its very rude to bash people for writing for... YOU.

I find that sometimes things may end up poorly runned or unfair but it was NEVER the authors fault they got more, it wasn't ANYONES fault. Just how things went.

I think the blame game should end. Its a new season and a new chance, we learn and move on and if we can't move on we fight back.

xXSaberXx, you earned every award. Take pride in that. You have a right. >> This has turned into something it wasn't suppose to. A blame game and its no longer fun and it is hurtful to the authors of this board.

Guys really ... if this is what it comes to... why bother having a fanfic forum at all?

Zerodius
17th November 2005, 5:37 AM
Now... this may offend some people but well... I'll say it.

...

Am I the only one who fails to understand why there is a presence of star ratings and most of all, awards?

I look at some of you... what do I see?

People who do not want to writte fan fiction.

That's right. I see a gang of power-hungry people who hate each others' guts, trying to claw away at readers and reviewers.

I don't care if very few people actually read "Rejected" (or if my readers are simply closet readers) despite all the efforts I put into it. I do not care if I only have three regular reviewers. All that I care about is that I'm making a story and that I like it.

This is why completed fanfics are a rarity ; becease people don't want to writte them. They want the reviews, the praise, the popularity... but they forget that the reason they writte is to unleash their imagination and create something out of materials such as the Pokemon anime and games, in the case of Pokemon fanfiction, or simply create a new universe, in the case of original work.

If you don't want to writte, then don't writte. I have little patience for reader leeches, backstabbers, and other vicious parasites who whine, kick the ground, and hold their breath when they aren't praised as the Next Big Thing.

With that said, I'll leave you to think on this matter. If anyone has smart comments... then please do share.

Have a nice day everyone... and people, remember: "The important is NOT the reviews but the story itself. A good story without reviewers is an underated gem. A bad story with lots of reviewers is just an overhyped, empty shell. You smile looking at the first, you frown looking at the second. That's that."

TO Lady Myuu: About Saber taking back his pride... no, just no. I seen people register just so they could vote on Saber's work WITHOUT even reading the other stories. I think I do not need to explain any further. The awards is a game of POWER AND CORRUPTION, not writting skills. It is human nature at it's finest, rawest state when people betrays, badmouth, and hate each others for a couple of meaningless titles as if those were holy relics.

Yes, this is harsh... but the Awards thread needs that: to be looked at as it is (a source of hatred) and to closed, burnt down, sealed for all eternity.

Thank you for your time... and if anyone of you feel a bit flamed by this post... then know that I am sorry and that this was not targeted at anyone in particuliar... altought the concerned people should most probably feel offended upon reading this post.

Anyway, that's all.

End post.

Dilasc
17th November 2005, 5:43 AM
What really irks me is that all we're doing is putting the big name authors on pedastals, and that is bad... I wanna be on the pedastal... uh I mean, I think they're bad.

Now, we must remember that all these top writers are still just men (though modtly ladies), like you or me. The stuff they make in toilets is the same damn stuff that we make. Let's leave the **** for the toilets and not bring it out here. If we do, the **** hits the fan, and everything stinks when that happens.

Thus, we must neither go around calling these authors 'teh evil' or on the other end, 'gurus of pokemon fics'. They're still just people. Have we forgot that we are all just humans on the inside and out? Have we? Think on it... I said THINK ON IT!

Ok, so bad idea.

I'll be honest though. When I review something, I usually have a simple alterior motive... you read me, I read you. It doesn't mean I will give you gumdrops, my spleen, and a bountiless sea of Virginians, I just want to spread the word.

It's a little something called 'the spread of ideas,' which was brough about with a little something called the printing press. Say, gosh, and golly Juju, batman! That has a lot to do with... WRITING! Egads, gasp, and Uncle Sampson, what a coincidence. All we need to do, is stop taking it so personally, and live a little!

billy5772
17th November 2005, 5:45 AM
Stop fighting you guys! *billy runs to his room and slams the door*

But really, I agree with Zerodius. I mean, I've never seen a group of people make so much of so little. Everyone wants to get recognized as having done what they've done well. But if you don't get recognized at all or if you don't get recognized as much as you'd like to, how much have you really lost? I think for a second we're all forgetting that this is a FANFIC FORUM. I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be serious business. At least not serious enough to curse each other out over, ya know?

But, I always am looking for new material for The Drama of Serebii, so carry on...

Lady Myuu
17th November 2005, 5:48 AM
-__- I keep telling them to cool it and that pointing at our WONDERFUl, TALENTED Authors is just wrong. Yes they get attention but they get it for a reason and they deserve it.

Yes there are authors who are just as good but don't get the attention but it is not the popular Authors fault! ITS NOT.

Goodness.

Just...

grow up or something people.

Dilasc
17th November 2005, 5:58 AM
Even though I am getting a sick sense of enjoyment from all the bickering, I do think this is getting a bit out of hand, even if I do stir and rile things up with my strange sense of intelectual theorum.

Let's calm down a bit, here.

Yamato-san
17th November 2005, 6:16 AM
I may be sore about losing, but I'm not taking this out on the winners like everyone else is. I just have seperate issues with this place in general.


Now... this may offend some people but well... I'll say it.

...

Am I the only one who fails to understand why there is a presence of star ratings and most of all, awards?

I look at some of you... what do I see?

People who do not want to writte fan fiction.

That's right. I see a gang of power-hungry people who hate each others' guts, trying to claw away at readers and reviewers.

I don't care if very few people actually read "Rejected" (or if my readers are simply closet readers) despite all the efforts I put into it. I do not care if I only have three regular reviewers. All that I care about is that I'm making a story and that I like it.

This is why completed fanfics are a rarity ; becease people don't want to writte them. They want the reviews, the praise, the popularity... but they forget that the reason they writte is to unleash their imagination and create something out of materials such as the Pokemon anime and games, in the case of Pokemon fanfiction, or simply create a new universe, in the case of original work.

If you don't want to writte, then don't writte. I have little patience for reader leeches, backstabbers, and other vicious parasites who whine, kick the ground, and hold their breath when they aren't praised as the Next Big Thing.

With that said, I'll leave you to think on this matter. If anyone has smart comments... then please do share.

Have a nice day everyone... and people, remember: "The important is NOT the reviews but the story itself. A good story without reviewers is an underated gem. A bad story with lots of reviewers is just an overhyped, empty shell. You smile looking at the first, you frown looking at the second. That's that."

Editting your post to remove my name, are ya? Too late, pal. So, you're saying I don't like writing? That I don't like working on this story? You might be half right... I couldn't really give a damn about fanfiction, and I can't wait for the day that I get out the scripting phase of my project (although, unlike what you said, I do intend to complete that phase eventually). However, if you were referring to fanworks in general, you are dead wrong. You think I seek popularity just for the power and pleasure of being praised? In case you're too blind to notice, I'm doing everything for opinions. I try my best to improve my story as best as I possibly can, something that masses could enjoy, and you're saying I don't enjoy creating it? The story itself is important, I'm aware, but the reviews and second opinions are the food that nourishes it throughout its life, and should it eat right, it'll become a strong, healthy adult.

And Saber, cut the crap. Sheesh, Ice King talks about me being dramatic.... if you enjoy writing, do it, and don't let stupid things like others' envy get to you, whether or not your winning was corrupted. If you don't like writing, by all means quit, but if you love it, stop being such a god damn p*ssy and continue on with it.

Insincerus
17th November 2005, 6:39 AM
This is getting ridiculous >_>;

FOR GOD SAKES. 'Tis fan-fic awards we're talking about here, not freaking metal trophies made of solid gold. This subject doesn't need to erupt in a flame war, and most certainly, it isn't necessary to argue with each other left and right.

For underrated authors: there's not much we can do to sway votes this time around, unless we are able to inform our audience the complicated outcomes of this summer's awards. The readers/reviewers need to know the information that makes their votes biased, and well-informed people equal more options for them to explore in Fan-Fiction, including endulging in things that do not have to do with popularity, their friends, or anything that could make their opinions biased. Again, nothing to get fussy over. There always is second chance for these sorts of things, and if we can get this knowledge out to the public, they'll be aware of our situation, which can increase the chances of people coming out of their closet behavior or sticking to a strict line of fics that may or may not include things personal to them.

To the winning authors: letting piss*rs and moaners push you around is the worst I'll ever see. Don't let them get to you, because they're just trying to bring you down in their furious jealousy...over an online fan-fic award. Ignore them. Don't let their thoughts stray you, because it may not necessarily be your fault for yourself gaining an award and themselves not. There is a great percentage of the voters that were biased, and whether you are one of the people that did try to sway them this way by methods thought to be taboo, or whether you won and haven't done any of this, NEVER insult each other over something so simple. Systems of voting can be changed. So can people. Stop the fighting, and let life live on. There is going to be another contest, and hopefully, after seeing this thread (which will probably close very soon if this hatred continues), people will consider what we think about next time before we vote, and those working on the awards this season will be provided with thoughts about all of this.

Ouallada
17th November 2005, 7:56 AM
Listen up. The awards are probably being influenced, and there is a need to put things right, but there is NO NEED to start getting neanderthal in here. No author is to blame for winning awards. So to everyone who thinks along those lines, re-evaluate. The aim is to make the awards more fair to everyone, and when we see a problem, we SOLVE it, not run away, not banish said problem to some dark recess of the mind. Perhaps some people are right in saying that the awards shows off the worst in human behaviour, but I have to disagree with banishing the awards. By culling the awards, there is nothing more than a symbolic giving into the problems at hand. Escapism is a much more potent show of an inability to solve a problem than meeting it head on.

Let us analyse why the awards generate hate. The same authors always win? New authors are not involved? Certain amount of behind-the-scenes work? A combination of the above? If people would calm down and take a look at what I am trying to do, to understand that the basic crux of the matter is that the awards cater to every single person out there who has a fanfic, whether it be Scrap or Felix. No difference. With the awards this time, I have a reviewing committee that will scour fics. We will establish a nucleus of authors and readers that can possibly read each other's work, in addition to our reviews. At the least, authors will get more exposure FOR SURE if they were to participate in some way.

That would solve Yamato-san's problem to a certain extent, I would guess. Yamato, these awards cater to everyone, and I guarantee you and everybody else exposure. What you do with it is up to you. As for your argumenr with Iceking, both of you need to chill out. Both of you have valid points, but cussing does your own images little good. You have a point to make by typing, make it. No need to give everybody else an insight to your personas.

As I said before, I will say it again. Stop jumping on each other. Instead of being childish and moaning about problems, or playing the blame game, try this once. Give the awards and my changes a chance. Nothing to lose for anyone, and any form of success is a success for everybody. I hope I do not need to see such a spectacle again.

Breezy
17th November 2005, 8:07 AM
This is why completed fanfics are a rarity ; becease people don't want to writte them. They want the reviews, the praise, the popularity... but they forget that the reason they writte is to unleash their imagination and create something out of materials such as the Pokemon anime and games, in the case of Pokemon fanfiction, or simply create a new universe, in the case of original work.

Well actually...

This is how I think what stages a fanfic writer goes through:

1) This is the beginning where the new author is trying out new ideas, excited to write them down and use his imagination to weave a story. In this case, most new authors tend to update constantly, at least once a day, if not more.

2) As the author writes more, the more reviews he should get. It gets him more excited to update, and soon, the author wants to write to get praise, or reviews in the least.

3) The author then goes powerhungry for reviews and popularity.

4) After a dose of fanfiction reality, the author develops a fanfic indifference to his reviewers and his fics.

5) Finally, the author either quits at this moment or goes back to step 1 and writes for his own reasons. Or if he's me, he writes because people would honestly kill him if he didn't finish his fic. Heh.

That's usually how it works. Maybe some more steps though. So no, not all authors write for the power Zero. So do because they want to. It depends how developed a writer you are. No, I don't mean how you improved yourself in writing, but how you improved as a writer.

TO Lady Myuu: About Saber taking back his pride... no, just no. I seen people register just so they could vote on Saber's work WITHOUT even reading the other stories. I think I do not need to explain any further. The awards is a game of POWER AND CORRUPTION, not writting skills. It is human nature at it's finest, rawest state when people betrays, badmouth, and hate each others for a couple of meaningless titles as if those were holy relics.Name a few of these people for me please if you don't mind.

Overdramatize much? Because all competitors are trying to kill each other with word knives in order to win. :rolleyes:

You need to chillax. Like you said, it's meaningless words on a screen.

This wasn't meant to spark up a fight between the "popular" authors and the "underrated" ones. This was merely to point out both sides since both sides seem to be blind to the other side's feelings.

This has nothing to do with the awards. The struggle to gain power in a fanfic forum for crying out loud has been going on forever, and I figured it was time that someone pointed it out.

Of course, I used the summer awards to point this out because it was recent and did show how we all felt about the cliques here. 'Tis funny how's there's cliques everywhere.

Ah well. We all aren't going to be group hugging any time soon or roasting smores over roasting babies. Does no one get the beginning?

"Light me a fire, baby."

It's from somewhere. -.- Lol. I'm not that crazy to roast babies. >>;

The problem is though, the people that keep saying that "Oh, it's just fanfiction, it's no big deal" it is a big deal for some people because we're writing on our own free will, and we feel that doing something this hard like writing a fanfic deserves to have some recognition.

Dragonfree
17th November 2005, 12:20 PM
...

STOP THE BLOODY FIGHTING OVER NOTHING.

Geeze. *goes to do homework and write rant* <<

The Big Al
17th November 2005, 1:16 PM
It's times like this that I wish the Oddishgrove was still being maintained. The issue here is that we get a dozen new fanfictions every day it seems. What really gets me is how many break the rules. Unfortunately, this forces the more stable fanfics down unless people are reviewing them or the author is updating on a regular basis.

No offense taken Yamato-san, I think I and maybe a couple others actually discuss the plot. However, you kind of shot yourself in the foot with the AIM. I mean, I'm in college and I'm doing homework, going to class, I have meteorology club meetings every Tuesday, I have to run errands. That's just me but everyone has schedules that block might have been inconvient for them. On top of that, I never go to chat rooms. You might have gotten a better response if you had made a "Pokemon Monster Chronicles discussion" thread in the Author's cafe and PM'ed your regular reviewers.

I think the quanity drowns out the quality and unless you know what to look for, I believe many would-be reviews are discouraged and leave the section.

Negrek
17th November 2005, 2:20 PM
Oh, for the love of all things green and prettyful... calm down, people! This is almost as wangsty as the HP fandom flip-out of this summer, and that's saying something!

To the underrated authors: seriously, just stop whining. Go do something about it and stop pointing fingers at the omg popular authors. Like it's their fault. Really.

To the popular authors: no offense, but if you're really that downed by a few ne'er-do-wells, umm, remember that your self-esteem shouldn't be dependent upon a few random people that you know over the internet. Seriously. If some people don't like that you won, ignore them and stop sobbing about it because it makes you look more like an attention-monger and almost as bad as the belligerents.

Yamato-san
17th November 2005, 2:40 PM
No offense taken Yamato-san, I think I and maybe a couple others actually discuss the plot. However, you kind of shot yourself in the foot with the AIM. I mean, I'm in college and I'm doing homework, going to class, I have meteorology club meetings every Tuesday, I have to run errands. That's just me but everyone has schedules that block might have been inconvient for them. On top of that, I never go to chat rooms. You might have gotten a better response if you had made a "Pokemon Monster Chronicles discussion" thread in the Author's cafe and PM'ed your regular reviewers.

you know, someone could've said something, like about the schedule or not using AIM. I had that chatroom scheduled on a Sunday, I think about a week or two in advance. What really friggin irks me is that I had it posted on four seperate forums.

The Big Al
17th November 2005, 4:14 PM
you know, someone could've said something, like about the schedule or not using AIM. I had that chatroom scheduled on a Sunday, I think about a week or two in advance. What really friggin irks me is that I had it posted on four seperate forums.
Ah...I would have let you know I had to things happening. I was traveling back from my home to Mount Pleasant and watching the Lions. I never saw anything about the AIM schedule. Sorry.

Elemental Charizam
18th November 2005, 6:23 PM
And Saber, cut the crap. Sheesh, Ice King talks about me being dramatic.... if you enjoy writing, do it, and don't let stupid things like others' envy get to you, whether or not your winning was corrupted. If you don't like writing, by all means quit, but if you love it, stop being such a god damn p*ssy and continue on with it.
*raises eyebrow* The irony.

Actually, forget that, I'll just raise an eyebrow at the whole crock of seething e-drama thatb is this thread. While several of you have valid points, it's all getting a bit too heated in here. Nothing breeds arguing like more arguing; jeesh, I've found so many things just on this page I have issues with that I could write not one but two lists. The awards aren't worth this.

Just a tip for Yamato-san though, the baby burning thing is just a joke. Not started by IK either...

Ouallada
19th November 2005, 7:51 AM
I will not be too hasty to slam this thread. While it does leave something to be desired, at the least issues are brought into the open, where they can actually be solved. Those who read novels like Lord of the Flies and the like can easily understand that a lot of this is human nature. You run from that, you run from humanity.

As I have said, there is little need to express anything save your own opinion, and that a debate would achieve more than an argument. In any case, it lets people know what kind of issues are seething beneath the surface. Do not be so quick to chastise.

Elemental Charizam
19th November 2005, 4:39 PM
There is a difference between arguing and debating. I was just asking people to calm down and think before they post. Which seems to have happend anyway, though possibly only because there aren't many new posts.

Ouallada
20th November 2005, 11:36 AM
Of course there is, and one transcends into the other very easily. I would rather people understanding through an argument and then get down to business after calming down than to stifle the whole process in the first place.

Ryano Ra
20th November 2005, 4:45 PM
...

This is just insane. People are arguing, people are feeling guilty, you guys have just taken this to another level. I could of thought that the topic was popularity in fanfiction, but now it turns into some jaw-bending argument. I'm pretty much glad I stay away from threads as this, because one person can just throw it out of bounds. Let's just have a rather calm conversation about this over cups of french-vanilla coffee, no? ^^

But, I will say this; Saber, you don't have to feel guilty. You are a talented author and it was your turn to shine, showing everybody what good of an author you are. If people make you feel bad or low, just PM me up and I'll take care of them for you. ^^ Honestly people, stop making my friend Saber feel bad. She deserved to get those awards, whether you like it or not, so go get a life and try harder next time. These are meant for fun, though they are ruled under a popularity government, so what will the complaining do?

Now, I'll be back for my opinion on popularity, not these damn awards. Ranting, ranting, ranting, just stop. >>

Elemental Charizam
20th November 2005, 5:59 PM
What I find amusing is that popular opinion is that popularity votes are bad, but they're still widely used (or popular). Weird, eh? XD

And those who lost to Saber didn't neccaserily lose for lack of trying, though I won't debate who was better and so on.

Yamato-san
20th November 2005, 7:00 PM
*raises eyebrow* The irony.

How's it ironic? You saying I don't enjoy writing? I thought I've made it perfectly clear that I'm still working on my project, and I enjoy doing so. I really don't get what's so hard to grasp about an author seeking reviews in order to improve his story. Isn't that the thing several authors wish for? To know that they're headed in the right direction? Isn't that the reason why we restrict replies that are little more than unopinionated praises?

I suggest you go back and thoroughly read through my posts again, because seem to have missed several points I've made and are still under the false assumption that I'm not writing for my personal enjoyment, but for praise and respect from reviews. If you can look past my general p*ssed-offedness, you'd see what I was saying there.

Elemental Charizam
21st November 2005, 8:31 PM
What was in fact ironic was that you got extremely 'offended' at somebody telling you to quit moaning about being 'ignored' and suggesting that you were only writing for praise, and then the second they lay off you, you lash out at Saber for the same things you yourself had been accused of. And she had only mentioned her feelings about something, and never suggested she did not care about writing at all, merely that she was sad atthe reaction ofsome people as to the fact she won awards. Please to note that Saber didn't repeat herself to infinity either, unlike yourself.

Not only ironic, but hypocritical on your part as well =/

Yamato-san
21st November 2005, 9:46 PM
lash out? You suggesting I took my anger out on her? I just do some things a bit rough, and when someone goes spouting crap like that, how else am I supposed to slap some damn sense into them? She may not've said she didn't enjoy writing, but she did talk about considering to quit just because she didn't like how everyone was reacting towards her. You say she never said she doesn't care about writing, but you know, when she says it that way, it makes it seem very likely that she doesn't care after all. There're only two possibilities here, either she cares enough that she's not going to let something so friggin petty get to her and cause her to quit, or she does not care at all and would quit just like that. If she doesn't care, then she should go on ahead and quit, get her a** out of this forum. It sounds harsh, but that's just the way it is.

And how's that lashing at her for the same things I was accused of? You say I was accused of moaning for being ignored and that I write just for praise..... that doesn't seem like the case with her. Oh, and I have to repeat myself because people like you just don't get the point. I don't see what's hypocritical, either. I didn't say I'd quit writing like she did, now did I?

Ouallada
21st November 2005, 10:06 PM
The only thing I find ironic is that an argument can be resolved and then rekindled again this easily. If you all have not noticed as yet, this is a thread to discuss popularity, not to raise your own personal issues, and this applies to all members of the argument. It takes two hands to clap. You want to argue, then take it out of here, and do it through PM or something. Stop clogging up the thread. Charizam, I hope you can remember your notions of disgust at the "immature" people who were arguing. Yamato, I have already told you that I will be doing reviews and PR for all fics involved in the awards, and I hope that is enough for you.

Now, can we settle this like grown-ups, and get back on topic?

Elemental Charizam
21st November 2005, 11:07 PM
Ok, but can I ask something Oullada? Why did you put quote tags over immature? I can't see me posting it anywhere O.o All I said was that we should debate calmly. I'm calm; though as it could be seen as off topic (though it does relate to Popularity in Fanfiction) I can continue it over PM.

OT = That isn't ironic anyway; yes its ironic that I was saying we should stop arguing and am then drawn into one, rekindling the srguing, but I fail to see the irony in your first sentence.

Lady Barbara
22nd November 2005, 1:05 AM
There will always be popular authors in fanfiction. There are people whose works get well over 200 reviews on Fanfiction.net, but mainly consist of the author's friends saying, "OMG U ROK!!" again and again each time a new chapter is posted.

There are less popular--but no less talented--authors whose works get less than half those reviews, but who are genuinely praised (and occasionally given constructive criticism) for their work.

I'd much rather be in the latter group.

Think about this: you see authors who churn out a book each year: Danielle Steel, Nora Roberts, James Patterson, et al. Decent books, predictable plot, millions of copies sold. Critics are less than kind to these books, however, because they have the feel of something made by a machine and not a human.

You also see authors who go 1, 5, even 10 years between books. You see authors that you've never heard of win the Pulitzer Prize for Literature. This latter group includes authors like Jeffrey Eugenides, Ian McEwan, and Donna Tartt. These people write because they have a story to tell, not because their contract with "Publishing House Inc" tells them to write.

Let's face facts: there are fanfic authors who only write because they want to receive praise. Now, it's not wrong to want acknowledgement for your work, but if that's the only reason that you're writing, maybe it's best to step back and decide if you really have a story to tell.

~Mist~
22nd November 2005, 2:50 AM
I agree with many people here, underrated authors should get more reviews. I was in that stage before too with my first story having more than 4,000 views but only 10-15 reviewers in all?! I found that pretty insulting since I've worked on my first story from my own imagination. Most of the people who have read my story are random reviewers. Most of the views are from people who attend my school but never join forums. They still praise my story throughout so it kind of became popular among my school. The good things about my first story is basically, my reviewers loved reading, rating, and reviewing my story since it ended up getting 5 stars by 10 votes. That of course, made me glad that I have started to write, I am always thankful to those who review every time I update. This story of mine did make it to the Completed Fics Section, though I kept the original at my signature.

It now has become my passion to get my ideas out there since I plan on becoming an author. True, more people should have more reviewers not just the popular ones. There are many hidden talents that are inside a fanfiction or story. I have discovered that talent, the same goes for my lovely reviewers who have witnesssed it. But there are fanfics that do deserve that attention. They have worked hard to receive the recognition and have achieved it which I'll say, congratulations.

My advice to receive more reviewers? Well, start making friends with them. I did that and they have kept their loyalty as I did the same. If I haven't, then that shows that we all have a life. School, family, friends, life goals...we all have them in life and everyone must remain optimistic for all time. Don't let any negative reviews get to you, think of it as constructive criticism. That's what reviewers are for.

For those who have won before, well, I have to say congratulations for winning but that doesn't mean people must flame against the winner. That is a sign of immaturity and lack of respect. Let's say I win, does that mean everyone will go against me? Yes and no since all people have different opinions on things. But if I don't win, I accept that and will congratualte the person who may win. There's no need for pointless fights over an award. Can't people accept loss? This will be my first contest to enter since I want to try it out form what I've heard.

Although voting should be fair. I agree that people should go out and read different genres from not just your friends but from seperate people as well to make the game fair.

Just remember for those who are still struggling, always be optimistic and have patience. I have learned a lot from that which had better results.

Dilasc
22nd November 2005, 3:17 AM
The problem is, trying to make friends just to get them to read your work... well, lets just say these 'friends', they'll KNOW you're just being a suckup to mooch reviews off of them. That is why I try to avoid making friends, in order to not give people the idea that I want them only for reading my work. Let's face it, we're all like that about our stories, the last I checked. We all love reviews, and want to be respected without having to respect in retrospect. Get the point I'm trying to make here?

~Mist~
22nd November 2005, 4:49 AM
^I see your point. But I don't make friends just for them to read my works. get to know them by their personality. I don't think I expanded the idea on that post, so my apologies if it confsed you. But IMO, it is better to make friends with the person so they don't give you a blank review, like I sometimes get. I don't mind it either if I'm friends with the person or not. But still, you tend to feel better to know what kind of review you'll get. I'm not making much sense here but my point is, it's better to have a friendly constructive criticism than one from someone who isn't your friend. But then again, having a much more harsh review does make you work harder which is also good too for the writer. Now I'm not really making sense here... ^^;;

Ouallada
22nd November 2005, 8:39 AM
Ok, but can I ask something Oullada? Why did you put quote tags over immature? I can't see me posting it anywhere O.o All I said was that we should debate calmly. I'm calm; though as it could be seen as off topic (though it does relate to Popularity in Fanfiction) I can continue it over PM.

OT = That isn't ironic anyway; yes its ironic that I was saying we should stop arguing and am then drawn into one, rekindling the srguing, but I fail to see the irony in your first sentence.

You may not have said it, but it was heavily implied through your apparent distaste for the arguments going on. As you can tell, my not searching for a quote speaks volumes about what I think about this mess as well. The fact is that your words have a negative connotation, and whether it may be under the context of immaturity or crass stupidity, you know what you implied, and try not to have that rebounding on yourself by getting drawn into matters that have already settled down. If what you said has no negative connotations which you must apply to yourself upon practising that which you apparently abhor, then it must be taken that you are in fact neutral or even supportive of such notions, in which case I have nothing further to say.

As far as the other people who have been on topic go, I too understand that some people do it for fun, and some do for ego boosts, but the line is not always that clear. An ego boost can result in fun, or vice versa. What Dilasc said rings through though.

Elemental Charizam
22nd November 2005, 5:22 PM
You don't use quotation marks unless you're quoting somebody; to do so is either manipulative, to trick people into thinkig I said something which I did not, ignorant, or just stupid. At the very least, it was uneeded. I didn't think I was implying anything beyond what I said, and as I don't feel that way then it must in fact be you getting the wrong end of the stick. I know me better than you; trust me on this.

On the actual topic, I kindasorta agree with Dilasc; while he hasa point, I disagree about the respect issue. Personally if I think somebody deserves respect I will respect them, though of course its nice to be respected I don't losesleep over it if nobody shows me any. Mutual respect is the best kind, in my opinion. An ego boost isn't what I'd define as fun, more happiness; I wouldn't call getting reviews fun but it fdoe make you happy. In general, anyway...

Ouallada, on the OT issue, why don't you PM me awell; practice what you preach as our debate has nothing to do with OPopularity in fanfiction at all.

Ouallada
22nd November 2005, 6:27 PM
What you said had a negative connotation, whether or not you meant it, and sometimes it is not what you mean, but what you are construed to mean. If you cannot project an imagery of neutrality to me, the recipient, then you have failed in that aspect. Trust me, I know what I construed better than you do. Granted, I should have quoted you correctly, but you should understand that the crux of the matter is not what I quoted, but rather what you meant. You do not crock a brow and label something as seething while having a positive connotation. My advice to you about using PM was due to your apparent revival of resolved debate. I have no idea if you are going to try something similar on me, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt and posted my explanation for everybody to see. However, seeing that you are so keen to act and expound my word, you should perhaps forestall me and PM me instead. End of matter for me, and I will not mention anymore of this.

Personally, I do not believe what we have on our hands is a "respect" issue, but rather one of biasness, shown and exhibited by most people here. For examply, take Syra's one-shot. The same people exalt his work all the time. Truth? Perhaps. Biasness? Perhaps, I do not know, and thus I will not comment. The same goes for other authors, who seem to rely solely on friends and solicited reviews for survival. Quality is not so much an issue, but as Dilasc has already bluntly put, "sucking up to mooch" reviews is definitely prevalent. Where there is smoke, there is fire. You do not get so many people agreeing without there being some element of truth. Would you then say that you have given people you were unfamiliar with their deserved chances, Charizam?


Ouallada, on the OT issue, why don't you PM me awell; practice what you preach as our debate has nothing to do with OPopularity in fanfiction at all.

I see, but do you not think that an exhibition of tactful debating would perhaps induce repetition? I beseech you to PM me instead if you have anything to add which is out of topic. I consider this case closed on my part.

Dilasc
22nd November 2005, 8:12 PM
There are many other great writers here besides myself who are just ignored. The question I ask is why? I don't understand WHY nobody reads my works, or the works of other underdogs.

I have a challenge for EVERYONE HERE. I dare EVERYONE to read a fic by an underdog. It doesn't have to be me, but it can be if you want it to be, but just read an underappreciated fic. When you're done reading, REVIEW! For the love of smelly conch shells, REVIEW! One simple, new reader can make ALL the difference, trust me... imagine what four or five can do.

I'm telling you, If you read these works through, they could knock your socks off, maybe even better than the works of Breezy, Saber, and all your favorites (no, I'm not being hateful, only being hypothetical.)

So, in this rant, I leave you folks a CHALLENGE, or a desperate plea for anyone and everyone to read underappreciated stories. I bet nobody will even give this a second glance, or take these words with a grain of salt, but hear me out, would ya? There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of us unrespected authors. Okay, so Yuugi's story does have a long exposition, Yamato's work is both a formal script and with Japanese names, while mine may be far too original for the average Joseph/Josephine to comprehend and the advent of so many original Pokemon may throw you all off... but still. I think everyone deserves a chance... and that's only naming a few stories. So, why not you famous guys tell your big fans about us little people you all accidentally step upon, unintentionally (so I hope.)

To be honest, I don't know what drastic measures should be done, but a word of wisdom. If you're going to read a story, and the author is practically begging to be reviewed, or is rather unreviewed, do them a favor and review it! Don't let us suffer lonliness, and try not to have ulterior motives.

This raging has been brought to you by Dilasc.

Flaming Lip
22nd November 2005, 11:12 PM
You can't say that only the popular authors one. There were some cases in which the underdog did win. I did try hard to make sure they (the awards) were not entirely a popularity contest. The thing if you want the people choose, a lot of there choice is going to be based on popularity. Its inevitible. Does anyone know 'bout those Student Body election things they hold at schools. Thats a popularity contest more often than not.

Think about it this way: Oh look my freind is running for school president. Am I going to vote for him/her or that acne ridden dude right there, or that guy I hate, or that girl who lisps, or that random person I don't know.

Which leads me to another thing. Its not just popularity. Suppose one person insulted you, the voter. And he was nominated for an award. Are you really going to vote for him? If he hates you, or you hate him? So you can't just chew on those more popular.

Yamato-san
23rd November 2005, 2:07 PM
Yamato, I have already told you that I will be doing reviews and PR for all fics involved in the awards, and I hope that is enough for you.

fine.... I won't ask that any nominations for me not be accepted. However, neither will I bother constantly bringing up the awards to my audience. IF I should get a nomination between my next update and the deadline, I'll just sit back and see how it plays out. I won't expect much, though, and even if word about me is spread, it's barely gonna help me get what I truely desire.


My advice to receive more reviewers? Well, start making friends with them. I did that and they have kept their loyalty as I did the same. If I haven't, then that shows that we all have a life. School, family, friends, life goals...we all have them in life and everyone must remain optimistic for all time. Don't let any negative reviews get to you, think of it as constructive criticism. That's what reviewers are for.

heh heh.... heh heh, haha hahahahaahahahah HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! HAha, ha ha, aw man.... no! Just no. If you didn't see it in my earlier b****ings, I can honestly say from personal experience that this is a horrible idea. More often than not, they'll end up giving you more trouble than it's worth, and even if you do manage to get a review out of them, it probably won't be what you're looking for (holding back on mentioning your bad points, little concrete criticism, among other things).

~Mist~
23rd November 2005, 5:09 PM
heh heh.... heh heh, haha hahahahaahahahah HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! HAha, ha ha, aw man.... no! Just no. If you didn't see it in my earlier b****ings, I can honestly say from personal experience that this is a horrible idea. More often than not, they'll end up giving you more trouble than it's worth, and even if you do manage to get a review out of them, it probably won't be what you're looking for (holding back on mentioning your bad points, little concrete criticism, among other things).

^I really don't see what's so funny if I express my own opinion. That right there was very immature to do. It's best if you at least me more mature and be polite instead of laughing. I can see why the others think of you as annoying. I didn't end up getting in trouble at all, maybe because I had a different experience than you had. Really, be more respectful. If you deserve that respect, you will get it. If not, I suggest you start behaving better.

Seijiro Mafuné
23rd November 2005, 5:44 PM
I think he was just laughing at the idea of making friends out of reviewers. Oy vey.

mindripper
23rd November 2005, 9:48 PM
Politics politics. Sigh, it is a necessary evil, I am afraid. I symphatise with all authors who feel that they are being undervalued. Email me if you need a review, and I will see what I can do. Believe me, I was once quite wound up over reviews, but it simple does not hold much water for me anymore. To me, an author's own perception of himself or herself matters most, and everything else is secondary. The same applies to everyday life as well.

If I were to be asked if I believe popularity plays a part, I would say that it does, and invariably so. However, give the devil his due, and understand that these authors take time, time which we do not spend, to forge such relationships, and credit goes to them for doing that which I am unable to. It is all a matter of perception as to what you want to get out of a fic. For me right now, its getting my word across. If I can have fun on the way, even better. I do not hanker for awards, but I would like to know real constructive ways to improve. That is all.

To add on, sometimes it is also right that we acknowledge the talents of others. They may deserve their accolades, they may not. It really is not for anyone to decide without a shadow of doubt. What is certain is that events do not happen for nothing, and there must be something others are doing right ceteris paribus.