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Kagome Higurashi
27th November 2005, 8:35 PM
This seems to be one of the bigger battles as of late.

Do you think OrangeShipping has taken the place of PokeShipping in canon? Do you think PokeShipping ever had a place in canon? Do you think people are jumping the gun about OrangeShippng?

Debate!

Nylf
27th November 2005, 8:53 PM
*sigh* don't want much flaming for this, but somehow I know I will get it. This is a Pokeshipper support post for those who don't see the banner or avatar.

Having watched most of the Chronicles/hosos whatever, I have read the body language between the three main characters that will come up in this debate, Misty, Tracey and Daisy, to the best of my ability, and somehow worked out, if they were real, what they'd be thinking. You may take me seriously or not, but I find this skill in real life as well as TV. Whether Nintendo/the Pokemon Company/4-Kids planned the body language this way i don't know, but this is how I read it.

1/ Misty shows none of the body language she showed towards Ash during the Orange island and Johto series, clearly two of the main P-shippy series, towards Tracey. No violence, no arguments, no overblown emotions.

2/ Tracey, as far as can tell, is trying to attract Daisy. Why i don't know, and I ain't a Handymanshipper in essence, I don't think about it much despite seeing it on a few occasions. He does jobs for her with little thought, and prefers to be aside her than Misty.

3/ When Tracey gave Azurill to Misty, as far as I can tell he was using her as a means of getting to Daisy or one of her other sisters, as can be told by the lack of blushing by Tracey when Misty did at the time they mentioned it. Tracey is simply being nice to Misty in the age old, befriend the younger sibling attract the older sibling trick.

4/ Misty still thinks a lot about Ash. She constantly wishes him luck mentally, and is always eager to be with him. She may consider Azurill a replacement for Togepi, and via this she has two things:

1) A new 'baby' for her and PIKACHU to look after.
2) A similarity with Ash, as they now both have three stage rodent Pokemon.

5/ Misty maintains a deep friendship with Pikachu, who could easily be considered a pseudo-brother to Ash. Yet again, the sibling trick.


There's probably some other stuff, but that's all I have currently. orangeshippers feel free to hate me, but that's just my point, you ould easily disagree. And please, let's keep this clean.

intergalactic platypus
27th November 2005, 9:06 PM
well i love pokeshipping, but i like orangeshipping a lot too (i support several ships with the misty. if you object then too bad). i think its more likely to happen at this point since misty and tracey are both side characters now, only appearing in HOSOs and guesting. i know people will say im betraying pokeshipping, but honestly both couples work well(though i am partial to ash/misty) and orangeshipping is the most likely. however, i dont think any of the characters will really "hook up" at this point to be honest. i dunno, those are the two most likely to happen misty ships (even though i also support egoshipping, imageshipping, and whatever misty/sakura is)

cold_katanagirl
27th November 2005, 9:27 PM
Orangeshipping seems a bit too vague for me to really get a clear read on it. I've been thinking Pokeshipping was dead.

Nylf
27th November 2005, 9:33 PM
The Pokeshipping is dead theory is an easy one to believe, and I myself worried about it a lot early on, with so many Ash and Misty ships on the horizen. But my recently acquired psychological skills( I just found them, when I realised how simple it is to tie emotion to action) mean I have come to see whole new hints, so subtle they avoid the untrained eye, that help prove Pokeshipping is as strong as ever. Some may say I'm in denial. But i know I'm not in denial, as i don't watch the anime much, and anyway, I've been in denial, and this ain't denial. I simply see it as a whole new angle, one which people never touch on, and something the animators/writers/big wigs whatever probably knew would be hard to see, yet make it seem realistic. The exagerrated body language(anime falling, sweat drops, blushing) helps provide obvious hints, but the subtler body language(mild preferances, willingness to act, priority, eagerness, certain wordings) means that even know I can whole heartedly say I'm more a Pokeshipper now than ever.

CyberCubed
27th November 2005, 11:05 PM
1/ Misty shows none of the body language she showed towards Ash during the Orange island and Johto series, clearly two of the main P-shippy series, towards Tracey. No violence, no arguments, no overblown emotions.

Just one point:

Misty doesn't have to have a bickering ship with Tracey like she did with Ash to prove that it's canon. Just because Misty doesn't argue with him and there's no "violence," doesn't mean somethings not there.

Tracey is more mature than Ash, thus Misty has nothing to argue with him about. It's perfectly reasonable that Misty could have a bickering ship with one character and a "nice friendly" ship with another.

In other words, Tracey acts so nice to Misty that he's probably swooning her over that way. Especially with the Azurill gift, which is probably the best thing Tracey could have ever done. In a way, he made himself connected to Misty...something the writers like to do. (ala Ash and May both having Bulbasaurs, Vineshipping)

Nylf
27th November 2005, 11:22 PM
Reasonable point, and something I certainly didn't consider. But the Azurill thing, well the two expressions read it all. Misty's reacting with joy/blushing, while Tracey's reacting with a worried expression, that means one of about three-four things:

1/ He's worried Ash will kill him.
2/ He's trying to make it clear he didn't do it because he liked her because he doesn't.
3/ He does like her but doesn't want anyone to know.
4/ He's weird and can't act on basic instinct.(Implying he got the body language wrong)

And the same Pokemon thing IMO is a load of bs. Similar Pokemon fine, but same Pokemon is stalker level worrying, or mentor aspirations. And May got Bulbasaur 'cos she follows the stereotypical girly tradition of 'cute'. Ash's Bulbasaur defies every cute. If it had been something like Ash a Plusle(though with Pikachu doubtful) and May a Minun, the point would be valid, but I'm going off topic.

There are also sensible reasons behind the actual giving of the Azurill:

1/ Tracey's always busy helping Daisy, Oak and Delia, and knows Misty has experience with Baby pokemon.
2/ Yes, he is trying to pick up Misty, but doubtful from my viewpoint.
3/ He knows Misty wants a Marill, so he was being friend nice. Ash has done it many times, letting Misty have Togepi, Casey have Beedrill, Misty borrow his Pokemon on a few occasions.
4/ Point above, but to pick up Misty. Also points on Ash involving Misty apply here, as well as Misty loaning Ash her Pokemon, well offering, on some occasions, mainly Kanto.
5/ As I said earlier, to get to Daisy.
6/ He knows Misty is great at raising Water pokemon, so figured it'd be happier with Misty.
7/ I'd bet Nylf the Shiny Rayquaza that if Ash got a Pichu or other baby from one of his Pokemon he'd have given it to Misty, but Tracey likes Misty, who doesn't like him(I seriously see no body language, even the non-violent, between the two), so he beat him to it, Love Triangle sorta style*mental note made of Love Triangle theory*

That, and I have more than enough points yet to be disproved to keep my faith strong.

Also there's the age differance. Tracey's I'm guessing is about twenty? Well at least three years older than Misty. And Daisy is more in his age group. though then that's not major, but a valid point still. Both Misty and Tracey have easily more suitable people in their own age range(*cough ASH* *Cough*ANYONE BUT MISTY*) to really get that close. And on a less psychological level, Tracey has three Pokemon, Venonat, Scyther and Marill, two of which Misty can't stand and one she adores. Ash on the other hand hasn't got one bug, and Pikachu, his and Misty's big link. That's the one sign of P-Shipping that is near undisputable. Pikachu. They both care immensly about the little yella fella, and the little yella fella feels the same. Those three are tighter than any other members of the group now past, present and future, and Pikachu always get's those two in situations that set them up perfectly. And if he doesn't, TR do. Those three have been making accusations since the beginning, yet not once have they cracked one about Ash and May. And I've only seen one accusation towards Misty and Tracey, and Sakura is still kinda naive IMO, and she learned fast. PLUS there's Misty's reaction to that. She didn't blush, yet every single time she was accused with Ash, I emphasise EVERY single time, she blushed, quite heavily as well. And I found whenever someone accused me of liking someone I didn't, not once did I blush, yet the moment someone got the nail on the head and I denied it, I turned as red as a tomatoe. That's the big clue really.

CyberCubed
27th November 2005, 11:31 PM
. Misty's reacting with joy/blushing, while Tracey's reacting with a worried expression, that means one of about three-four things:

1/ He's worried Ash will kill him.

Erm, this is Ash we're talking about. If Ash saw Tracey and Misty as an actual "couple", he'd look more clueless or confused than anything. Ash may be slightly disappointed sure, but I don't think Ash would ever react that strongly, especially since his side of Pokeshipping was never made as apparent as Misty's.


There are also sensible reasons behind the actual giving of the Azurill:

3/ He knows Misty wants a Marill, so he was being friend nice.

Could be, but could be romantically linked as well.


Ash has done it many times, letting Misty have Togepi,

Well Ash didn't "let" Misty have Togepi, they actually battled over who would keep it. He then saw how attached Togepi was to Misty, so he knew he couldn't possibly get Togepi to like him more than her.


4/ Point above, but to pick up Misty. Also points on Ash involving Misty apply here, as well as Misty loaning Ash her Pokemon, well offering, on some occasions, mainly Kanto.

Brock loaned Misty his Vulpix in Kanto too if I remember correctly. Did Ash ever loan Misty Pokemon outside of "Princess Vs. Princess?"


6/ He knows Misty is great at raising Water pokemon, so figured it'd be happier with Misty.

Azurill is a normal type. ;)

Nylf
27th November 2005, 11:33 PM
And it becomes a Water Type when raised similarly to Togepi. See the link with Azurill replacing Togepi. I know Azurill's type change, it's why I find it weird. And I added some points that have even firmer basis than my psychiatry skills.

CyberCubed
27th November 2005, 11:41 PM
Also there's the age differance. Tracey's I'm guessing is about twenty? Well at least three years older than Misty.

I think you're placing the ages way too high. Misty probably isn't any older than 15, and Tracey is probably around 18 or 19ish. Jessie/James for example are in their 20's, Tracey is a kid.


And Daisy is more in his age group. though then that's not major, but a valid point still.

Daisy is most likely around Tracey's age, but the age gap between Misty and him isn't too bad.


Both Misty and Tracey have easily more suitable people in their own age range(*cough ASH* *Cough*ANYONE BUT MISTY*) to really get that close.

But why do they have to find people in their age range? You've never heard of girls going for older men? The age difference is only 3 years at the max anyway, certainly nothing too far apart.


And on a less psychological level, Tracey has three Pokemon, Venonat, Scyther and Marill, two of which Misty can't stand and one she adores.

Even though Misty doesn't like bug Pokemon, she never really showed any distaste for his Venonat and Scyther. She seemed to not mind them to be honest.


Ash on the other hand hasn't got one bug, and Pikachu, his and Misty's big link. That's the one sign of P-Shipping that is near undisputable. Pikachu. They both care immensly about the little yella fella, and the little yella fella feels the same.

I could say the same about May and Pikachu, but since this thread is not about that ship I won't say any more on that. ;)


And I've only seen one accusation towards Misty and Tracey, and Sakura is still kinda naive IMO, and she learned fast.

Didn't Casey ask something about Tracey liking Misty too? I remember hearing both Casey and Sakura have accussed them of liking each other. Correct me if I'm wrong.


PLUS there's Misty's reaction to that. She didn't blush, yet every single time she was accused with Ash, I emphasise EVERY single time, she blushed, quite heavily as well.

But Misty DID blush when she was accussed of liking Tracey. I don't have the pics on me, but I'm sure someone can post them.


And I found whenever someone accused me of liking someone I didn't, not once did I blush, yet the moment someone got the nail on the head and I denied it, I turned as red as a tomatoe. That's the big clue really.

Someone needs to post those pics of Misty blushing, sadly I don't have them.

intergalactic platypus
27th November 2005, 11:52 PM
i wanna hug both the ships to be honest, so ill play devils advocate. with orangeshipping, the reasoning is quite simple
-misty and tracey get along exceedingly well and spend a lot of time together
-tracey seems to always be at ceurelean gym, and i think he has a motive aside from just "checking up"
-misty likes mature older men as she has demonstrated in the past, and tracey is very mature and adult
-tracey gave her a special gift of azurill, which could have well been his marills child
-she interacted far more with him then with ash in the pallet ep

and now for pokeshipping
-theres an extremely high number of hints, many of which cant just be brushed aside
-it was made pretty clear that misty has had a crush on one of the guys in the group, but she shows far more interest in ash
-female sidekick with male hero is *almost* as popular as female hero with male hero, and pokemons a formula show
-the writers are known for being glaringly obvious, and an ash/misty crush certainly wouldnt be a plot twist
-theyre of a similar age, which is bonus points for any ship
-theyre very supportive of each other even if they do argue a fair deal
-its been shown that they care about each other immensley, and they show more concern for each other then for poor brock
-its the most popular ship in the fanbase, and what the fans want tends to sway writers

cold_katanagirl
28th November 2005, 12:06 AM
Reasonable point, and something I certainly didn't consider. But the Azurill thing, well the two expressions read it all. Misty's reacting with joy/blushing, while Tracey's reacting with a worried expression, that means one of about three-four things:Misty wasn't blushing because of Azurill, she was blushing because Team Rocket in disguise said she was pretty or something like that.
1/ Tracey's always busy helping Daisy, Oak and Delia, and knows Misty has experience with Baby pokemon. It would have been alot easier to just give the baby to Oak, especially since it's a Hoenn pokemon and it'd be a good opportunity for him and whatnot.
3/ He knows Misty wants a Marill, so he was being friend nice. Ash has done it many times, letting Misty have Togepi, Casey have Beedrill, Misty borrow his Pokemon on a few occasions.Ash didn't give Misty Togepi, Togepi chose Misty. I only recall Ash letting Misty borrow his pokemon in Princess vs Princess, and that was because Misty punched him.
5/ As I said earlier, to get to Daisy.If he wanted Daisy, he would have given the Azurill to Daisy. I doubt Tracey is all that concerned about how Daisy and how Misty feels, otherwise he would have asked Misty for advice or something. I also doubt Misty gives a crap who Daisy is going out with, unless it's someone she liked.

6/ He knows Misty is great at raising Water pokemon, so figured it'd be happier with Misty.Probably.

7/ I'd bet Nylf the Shiny Rayquaza that if Ash got a Pichu or other baby from one of his Pokemon he'd have given it to Misty,That's why he kept Phanpy for himself.
but Tracey likes Misty, who doesn't like him(I seriously see no body language, even the non-violent, between the two), so he beat him to it, Love Triangle sorta style*mental note made of Love Triangle theory*Sounds way too complicated.
That, and I have more than enough points yet to be disproved to keep my faith strong.Bring em on then. =0


Also there's the age differance. Tracey's I'm guessing is about twenty? Well at least three years older than Misty.Twenty and seventeen? That seems too old in my opinion. Three years at that age isn't a big deal anyway.
And Daisy is more in his age group.So? Age isn't everything.
And on a less psychological level,I have no idea why you're trying to apply psychology to something like Pokemon.
Tracey has three Pokemon, Venonat, Scyther and Marill, two of which Misty can't stand and one she adores.I don't recall Misty ever really going nuts over Tracey's pokemon, and it's not like they've been seen much lately anyway.
Ash on the other hand hasn't got one bug,And?
and Pikachu, his and Misty's big link.May's close to Pikachu too, that doesn't automatically mean May's crushing on Ash.
That's the one sign of P-Shipping that is near undisputable. Pikachu.I fail to see how Pikachu is a hint for Pokeshipping.
They both care immensly about the little yella fella, and the little yella fella feels the same.Sounds like Delia.
Those three have been making accusations since the beginning,Oh yeah, they've been accused of liking each other so many times in the past couple years.
yet not once have they cracked one about Ash and May.What does Advanceshipping have to do with anything? And did you miss The Bicker the Better?
And I've only seen one accusation towards Misty and Tracey, and Sakura is still kinda naive IMO, and she learned fast.Three times, not one.

The first one was Sakura, then Casey, and then Daisy imagined them in a romantic play together.
PLUS there's Misty's reaction to that. She didn't blush,She blushed with the Casey one.
yet every single time she was accused with Ash, I emphasise EVERY single time, she blushed, quite heavily as well.Complete BS. She's blushed sometimes, but not EVERY time they've been accused.
And I found whenever someone accused me of liking someone I didn't, not once did I blush, yet the moment someone got the nail on the head and I denied it, I turned as red as a tomatoe. That's the big clue really.That's nice and all, but it's completely irrelevant.

Nylf
28th November 2005, 8:33 PM
It's just pointing out how I learned my skills. OK, time for the probably most contreversal point I have. I got, to the best of my ability, inside of the head of whoever runs the anime, and the thing I worked out that will affect these ships, and why there are hints, is money. Like a lot of things in the world. OK, harsh reality of life over, I'll cut to the chase.

Th first thing is, as we all know, the Pokemon Chronicles/hosos are a spin off series. therefore temporary. That means the people making them are not only trying to fix plot holes, but also get a lot of money out of it while they can. Now the second thing is that this is an anime, what's one of the key selling points of anime? Romance. Therefore, in order to get people watching the anime series, undoubtedly Nintendo did research and knew they needed to fit some regular romance into the chronicles, and using Daisy would'nt really work as she's not that popular a character. So they made hints between the two most popular and regular characters in the hosos, Misty and Tracey. Now therefore this means that this looks to be temporary. It's a current reality, though that leaves the future of both the shippings we are discussing here to be more than likely the following:

1) When the Chronicles/hosos end, they will get rid of Misty and Tracey, leavng Pokeshipping and Orangeshipping overall dead. Highly unlikely, as Misty is easily the second to third most popular character, after Ash and Pikachu.

2) When the Chronicles/hosos end, Misty is brought back to the series for the D/P. This will leave Orangeshipping just about at a temporary deadness. Personally the one I most hope for, and, in an unbiased view, one of the more likely results.

3) When the Chronicles/hosos end, Tracey is brought back to the series and Misty is just about forgotten. Frankly near impossible, and a threat to both shippings.

4) When the Chronicles/hosos end, they bring back both Tracey and Misty to the series as regulars, leading to both worse conflict than now, a possible increase in the age range by introducing a love triangle, or simply Orange Islands all over again. Either way this would keep both ships alive, though of course lead to worse conflict. Hopefully we won't go too many bad shippers if this does come about, as there is a reasonable chance.

Those are the main possibilities for where the series will go after the spin off series ends fully(ie stops showing). An the overall direction means Pokeshipping has the higher odds, though Orangeshipping still has a decent possibility. I'm just praying they kick up the age range soon, if ever, so that we aren't stuck using disprovable hints, and get more solid proof.

CyberCubed
28th November 2005, 9:31 PM
Th first thing is, as we all know, the Pokemon Chronicles/hosos are a spin off series. therefore temporary. That means the people making them are not only trying to fix plot holes, but also get a lot of money out of it while they can.

True, but that doesn't mean that they can't be important. The point of the Hosos were to show what the other characters in Pokemon were doing while Ash was in Hoenn. It shows Misty as the Gym leader, Tracey, Gary as a Professor, Butch/Cassidy, and recurring characters like Casey and Sakura. While it is a spinoff series, it's in continuity with the main series AND it's written by the same writers.


Now the second thing is that this is an anime, what's one of the key selling points of anime? Romance. Therefore, in order to get people watching the anime series, undoubtedly Nintendo did research and knew they needed to fit some regular romance into the chronicles, and using Daisy would'nt really work as she's not that popular a character.

But romance has always been a subplot in Pokemon. It was never really given a focus, and has always been lingering in the backround. Not to mention with AG, neither Contestshipping nor Advanceshipping have anywhere near the number of hints Pokeshipping did in it's day. The show generally got less shippy as it went on.


So they made hints between the two most popular and regular characters in the hosos, Misty and Tracey. Now therefore this means that this looks to be temporary.

If Misty/Tracey becomes canon, it's a convenience ship, plain and simple. The writers did it because they wanted two former main characters to get together, since they have no plans to bring either of them back into the main series.


1) When the Chronicles/hosos end, they will get rid of Misty and Tracey, leavng Pokeshipping and Orangeshipping overall dead.

The Hosos have already ended. They've been over for nearly a year. There hasn't been a new Hoso since what...mid-2004? Besides it's not like we'll never see Misty or Tracey again in the main series, we'll see them right before Ash is about to set off on a new journey. (Such as Misty/Tracey showing up after Ash returned from Hoenn)


Highly unlikely, as Misty is easily the second to third most popular character, after Ash and Pikachu.

I'd like to think May is the second most popular on the show after Ash/Pikachu, at least for AG anyway. The writers have banked on her popularity enough to make her co-star the series with Ash.

Misty is certainly very popular, but since she hasn't been in the show in nearly 4 years I don't think she is as popular as she once was. Kids watching the anime now have no idea who Misty is. They grew up with AG.


2) When the Chronicles/hosos end, Misty is brought back to the series for the D/P. This will leave Orangeshipping just about at a temporary deadness. Personally the one I most hope for, and, in an unbiased view, one of the more likely results.

It doesn't seem likely that Misty will return however, simply because she's come full circle. She's achieving her dream by becoming a great Water Pokemon Gym leader, traveling with Ash would be adandoning her responsibilities again. From the looks of it, the writers are content with leaving Misty and Tracey where they are.


3) When the Chronicles/hosos end, Tracey is brought back to the series and Misty is just about forgotten. Frankly near impossible, and a threat to both shippings.

Indeed, I don't see Tracey ever returning and Misty will never be forgotten about entirely.


4) When the Chronicles/hosos end, they bring back both Tracey and Misty to the series as regulars, leading to both worse conflict than now, a possible increase in the age range by introducing a love triangle, or simply Orange Islands all over again.

Highly unlikely, as Tracey bombed as a character which is why the writers ditched him. Misty and Tracey will never be part of the main cast together again. Misty has a better chance of returning alone than with Tracey. Tracey wants to work for Oak remember? He aint leaving.


Those are the main possibilities for where the series will go after the spin off series ends fully(ie stops showing).

It did. The Hoso specials ended mid-2004, over a year ago.


An the overall direction means Pokeshipping has the higher odds, though Orangeshipping still has a decent possibility. I'm just praying they kick up the age range soon, if ever, so that we aren't stuck using disprovable hints, and get more solid proof.

If Orangeshipping happens it will probably be off screen. Neither character is in the main series, so the writers will probably just allude to it. Pokeshipping can't take off again unless Misty returns, as the writers are not content with writing a ship between their main character and another who only appears once every 100 episodes or so.

Meganium Ex
28th November 2005, 9:49 PM
Honestly, I think Orangeshipping has a higher chance then Pokeshipping

The writers seemed to give up on Pokeshipping, and the Specials had alot of Orangeshipping hints

IMO, Orangeshipping is probably the greatest Pokemon ship in being cannon

But then again, Pokemon is not a love-life show >.>

Nylf
28th November 2005, 9:52 PM
Some of those points I did put as the fact that though they're near impossible, I had to consider every option. And over in the UK the hosos, well I lost track, they're still showing here but I don't bother to watch the series much. If all goes as the pessimistic side of me is convinced it will I'll probably stop watching. P-shipping was really the only reason I kept watching, it'd gotten dull otherwise. And in the UK Misty's only been gone about a year. The biased side of me says she will turn her back on all she's wanted to be with him, the unbiased considers it a possibility, but there are others. As always it's hard to say something definetly won't happen, I mean I find Max and May ditchable characters(sorry but they just really annoy me, the smart junior and the ditzy, girly brunette dressed as a tomboy? Give me a break, at least Misty's personality and Ash relationship made it interesting, I mean now it's simpy do Gym, do Competion, see Pokemon, beat Team Rocket, no random tournaments like sumo or fishing, no single Pokemon quests, no real comedic awkwardness, and no stupid level hyper active cheering, and no Psyduck), though then I'm a minority there. The D/P games are too big of enigma's to just say they've definetly ditched Misty, and Psyduck, he's too much of a class character for them to turn they're backs on, I mean who's in every Misty hoso? Tracey isn't in all of them, Dasiy is in very few, Sakura's been in one, but Psyduck's been in every single one, and his plot hasn't been rounded off. We will never learn if he ever learns to swim. Togepi has been finished off really, but Psyduck is still a tie that's yet to be broken. A key point for those who support the idea of Misty's return, and a rebirth of P-shipping. Tracey's been overall cut off and finished really, s he hasn't got much left to keep him a regular, non-cameo. Basically I'm saying we may be jumping into this debate too early. With D/P looming on the horizen, and remaining an enigma, we can't really put much preidiction towards any characters return and leaving permanently or temporarily. And that is overall the key thing that is what is affecting P and O shipping.

flygon-10-25-93
28th November 2005, 11:00 PM
got your back Nylf

I was looking at http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/houen/S17ps2.shtml

I didn't see Misty blush.

Swifty
28th November 2005, 11:33 PM
I would like to help out some of these guys here, however, a part of me feels like this thread is simply a regurgitation of the Pokeshipping Debate Thread: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?p=2194825. It seems like we're beating a dead horse.

In any case, why is it always this Kagome user starting debate threads? Not only that, most of the threads she seems to start are of subject matter concerning attitudinal behavior towards other ship factions while also committing shippers into engagements with other shippers. Is that what we like to do, Kagome? Like seeing the gnashing of teeth? Or the clashing of bone and sinew? Yes, indeed?

BTW, the Pokeshipping Debate thread was also started by her.

Lux
30th November 2005, 5:35 AM
Someone needs to post those pics of Misty blushing, sadly I don't have them.

Here you go. Thanks to STJ for both pic and captions: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/stj0809/MistCase.jpg

Misty:This is Tracey
Casey:Is he your boyfriend?
Misty:Why does everybody say that when I introduce him to anyone?

:D

PokeProphet
1st December 2005, 6:10 PM
Hey peeps. Thought I'd pop up here. Surprised Jo-Jo didn't show up here yet. I hope she does, since I've always wondered how it would be to debate against her. It seems like we're always on the same side. Not that I mind that, but I just think I'd be interesting if we weren't for a change.

Okay, now for the topic. Well, I said a lot of things about Orangeshipping before, and I'm not going to repeat them. Partially because it's been heard before, and partially because I'm lazy.

However, there is one thing that bothers me about Orangeshipping I'd like to discuss.
When talking about Orangeshipping, most people will say that it came into the picture when Misty left the main, and thus parted with Ash. People said that from that moment Pokeshipping wasn't a possibility anymore, and the big battle would be against Advanceshipping and Contestshipping. Meanwhile, in the Hoso's, Orangeshipping is used to kill of Pokeshipping permanently, and as a good opportunity to pair that poor Misty up yet. And Tracey is a plausible option, right?

Who knows. But what I do know is this. When it comes to shipping in Pokemon, and the writers opinion on it, there is only one thing certain.

It is not their favorite hobby.

Which becomes obvious if you consider that even younger-kids anime like Hamtaro has more shippy moments then Pokemon has had.

So why am I bringing this up? Well, Orangeshipping was pretty much a ghost-ship during the Orange saga. It was the height in Pokeshipping, Tracey himself even dropped a few hints, and he seemed too busy sketching Sissy and nice officer Jenny's to notice Misty. Not to mention the infamous "Are you talking about me?" quote in Pokemon2000.
To summarise, Orangeshipping would need a lot of build-up to make it seem plausible. Misty would gradually need to lose her crush on Ash, and Tracey should slowly fall in love with here. It would need a lot of shippy-time and effort from the writers to make it work. And the problem is, that the writers of Pokemon, we all know, don't like to dedicate that time and effort to shipping.

So now you're thinking "Could be, but they needed to kill Pokeshipping, and Tracey was the only available option". No he isn't. We're talking about the writers here. They made up the Pokemon world, and they can make anything happen in it (yes, including Orangeshipping, agreed. But I'm pointing out why they are probably not doing so). So if they wanted to kill Pokeshipping, why use Orangeshipping? Why use so many time to make this historically impossible ship possible, while the writers could finish of Pokeshipping forgood in a plausible and acceptable way, which would only take one minute/thirteen lines and would require no build-up at all?

What the hell I'm talking about? Watch:

*Scene at the end of 'Cerulean Blue'*

*Misty dives into the water*
*A silhouette appears in the shade just besides the swimming pool. Someone seems to be watching Misty*
Misty: *Misty crawls out of the water* "Huh? What?! You?!
Rudy: "Hey Misty."
Misty: "Rudy!" *confused* "Why are you here?"
Rudy: "Well, I was in the neigborhood, and I haven't seen you in a while, so I just thought I'd drop by. You look well!"
Misty: *blush* "Thanks"
Rudy: *moving closer to Misty* "Where's that Ash-guy?"
Misty: *looking sad* "Oh, he just...left."
Rudy: "He never did figure it out, did he?"
Misty: *crying* Nope. He didn't.
Rudy: *brushing his hand over her cheek* "Well, I just wanted you to know that the offer still stands."
Misty: "What? You mean..."
Rudy: "Hmhm"
Misty: "Oh yes Rudy! Yes, I do!" *teary kiss*

*The end*

There. 1 scene. 13 lines. Takes about a minute. Pokeshipping dead. Whiped out. In a way that's plausible, yet requires no build-up whatsoever, since it already had a build-up. The perfect solution if you want Pokeshipping dead.

So does Rudy not appearing mean that Pokeshipping will happen/Orangeshipping doesn't happen? No. Of course not. But if I'm smart enough to realise that this is a much more efficient way to kill Pokeshipping, the writers sure as heck will. And like I said...
...shipping is not their favorite hobby.

Lux
4th December 2005, 8:28 PM
So does Rudy not appearing mean that Pokeshipping will happen/Orangeshipping doesn't happen? No. Of course not. But if I'm smart enough to realise that this is a much more efficient way to kill Pokeshipping, the writers sure as heck will. And like I said...
...shipping is not their favorite hobby.

:/

They would NEVER bring Rudy back. He was an one-shot gym leader, and more, an Orange Islands' gym leader, I doubt the writers even remember his name. What makes you think that bringing him back is a "much more efficient way to kill Pokeshipping"?? Tracey is a way batter choice - since Misty left the group, they have become kind of best friends. I'm not going to say the writers are building something that will become cannon (I agree, shipping is not their favorite hobby), but orangeshippy situations are always recurring when the two of them appear together.

cold_katanagirl
5th December 2005, 3:39 AM
Am I the only one here who thinks Pokeshipping is dead but Orangeshipping is too vague? Probably.
To summarise, Orangeshipping would need a lot of build-up to make it seem plausible. Misty would gradually need to lose her crush on Ash, and Tracey should slowly fall in love with here. It would need a lot of shippy-time and effort from the writers to make it work. And the problem is, that the writers of Pokemon, we all know, don't like to dedicate that time and effort to shipping.Wouldn't seasons without any Pokeshipping hints and reference after reference (after reference) cause a couple of eyebrows to pop up?
Why use so many time to make this historically impossible ship possible, while the writers could finish of Pokeshipping forgood in a plausible and acceptable way, which would only take one minute/thirteen lines and would require no build-up at all?Sounds like... GCYL to me.

PokeProphet
6th December 2005, 4:16 PM
They would NEVER bring Rudy back.
May I kindly point you to the fact that you don't know this? It might be your opinion, but it is not a fact.


He was an one-shot gym leader, and more, an Orange Islands' gym leader,
Which both aren't reasons for Rudy not to appear on the show again.


I doubt the writers even remember his name.
Bet you a gazillion bucks.


What makes you think that bringing him back is a "much more efficient way to kill Pokeshipping"? Tracey is a way batter choice - since Misty left the group, they have become kind of best friends.
Ehm, did you actually read my post? Or did you just read some short parts of it and ignored the rest? If you read my post, you will find several reasons why Rudy is a much more logical choice for Misty. I suggest you react to them next time.


I'm not going to say the writers are building something that will become cannon (I agree, shipping is not their favorite hobby), but orangeshippy situations are always recurring when the two of them appear together.
Okay then, show to me this abundancy of Orangeshipping hints.


Am I the only one here who thinks Pokeshipping is dead but Orangeshipping is too vague?
Yes. :p


Wouldn't seasons without any Pokeshipping hints and reference after reference (after reference) cause a couple of eyebrows to pop up?
Sorry, don't really get what you're saying here. You mean references to Orangeshipping? Lack of Pokeshipping hints doesn't rise my eyebrows though. We already had our hints, and since Misty isn't on the show right now it would be complicated to create more hints.


Sounds like... GCYL to me.
Well, GCYL could have been the end. But why did they make it so vague then? Why did they make Misty say that she finally knows how Ash feels for her, yet leave it to guess for the audience (note that she never actually tells what Ash feels for her, she just says she knows). And anyway, if the writers tried to kill Pokeshipping with GCYL, you have to admit that they didn't do a very good job, since GCYL is considered by the entire Pokeshipping fandom as one of the shippiest episodes ever. So the writers would have achieved exactly the opposite of what they wanted to achieve. Only pairing Misty up with another guy, and making that very clear (and you can say a lot about Orangeshipping, but it certainly isn't very clear, or logical for that matter) that Misty and the guy belong together. Why haven't they done that?

Shego
6th December 2005, 7:17 PM
I think I go for Orangeshipping because Misty had more chemistry with Tracey than Ashy. Beside, in the end of the orange saga, she wanted Tracey to tag along with her. I saw that episode.

Lux
10th December 2005, 9:28 PM
May I kindly point you to the fact that you don't know this? It might be your opinion, but it is not a fact.

How many gym leaders other than Brock, Misty and Norman appeared out of their battle archs?


Ehm, did you actually read my post? Or did you just read some short parts of it and ignored the rest? If you read my post, you will find several reasons why Rudy is a much more logical choice for Misty. I suggest you react to them next time.

Oh, yeah, it was long, but I read that all. I just quoted that part because I desagree that Rudy is going to appear again. He isn't. It's just utopical to wonder about Misty being paired up with an one-shot character. If the writers team change, maybe. But the way things are going, no. They do not know the meaning of the word "continuity". That's why I said they don't even remember Rudy's name. I bet they don't. ^^



Okay then, show to me this abundancy of Orangeshipping hints.

I didn't mention the word "hint" anywhere. There are just lots of shippish situations, not hints at all. People asking if they're boyfriend and girlfriend, Dayse's fantasy play, the Azurill... But Misty did blush when Cassey ask if Tracey was her boyfriend.



Am I the only one here who thinks Pokeshipping is dead but Orangeshipping is too vague?

You're right, but I like this discussion :D

Kagome Higurashi
24th December 2005, 9:41 PM
Hm well I think Pokeshipping has it going on. It's just a temporary lack of hints, but Misty will return.

Magus
24th December 2005, 10:16 PM
The way I see it, Orangeshipping doesn't exist, never has, and probably never will. I see no basis to it in the anime. It seems like one of those purely fan-generated ships, one that came up because some people thought it would be nice if Tracey and Misty hooked up rather than as a response to actual on-screen interaction between them. Whether this happened because some fans who like both Misty and Tracey wanted them to hook up or because some anti-Pokéshippers were hoping for Misty to get with a guy other than Ash and Tracey was geographically convenient, I have no idea. But either way, I don't see how any of the Hosos have interaction between the two that implies romantic feelings on either of their parts. The fact that Misty gets asked a few times whether Tracey is her boyfriend is in fact what kills Orangeshipping in canon. We know from past experience how Misty responds when those questions are asked about a guy she actually does like romantically, and the response to those questions about Tracey are entirely different. And Daisy's play scenario? The way Misty and Tracey calmly dismiss it without the slightest hint of embarassment, without the tiniest blush, makes me think that the writers were responding to the idea of Orangeshipping with a "Hahaha, no."

This isn't a ship that sank, it's a ship that never even had its keel laid.

Lux
25th December 2005, 8:25 PM
The way I see it, Orangeshipping doesn't exist, never has, and probably never will.

It might not become canon, but it does exists. The same way pokeshipping, advanceshipping, contestshipping, handymanshipping, rocketshipping and so many others do.


It seems like one of those purely fan-generated ships, one that came up because some people thought it would be nice if Tracey and Misty hooked up rather than as a response to actual on-screen interaction between them.


Anyone would say the same about other pokemon shippings:

"It seems like one of those purely fan-generated ships, one that came up because some people thought it would be nice if - insert male character name - and - insert female character name - hooked up rather than as a response to actual on-screen interaction between them. Whether this happened because some fans who like both - female character - and - male character - wanted them to hook up or because some - insert ant-shipping name - were hoping for - female character - to get with a guy other than - insert male rival name - and - male character - was geographically convenient".


The fact that Misty gets asked a few times whether Tracey is her boyfriend is in fact what kills Orangeshipping in canon. We know from past experience how Misty responds when those questions are asked about a guy she actually does like romantically, and the response to those questions about Tracey are entirely different.

Different?? Indeed, she did blush when Casey asked if Tracey was her boyfriend, the same way she used to when the same happened to Ash.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c46/Jolivine/advanceshipping/Orangeshipping/270367af.jpg


And Daisy's play scenario? The way Misty and Tracey calmly dismiss it without the slightest hint of embarassment, without the tiniest blush makes me think that the writers were responding to the idea of Orangeshipping with a "Hahaha, no."

The contrary, they seem too interested in orangeshipping to me: so, whats the reason for the writers insistence into pushing Misty and Tracey into shippish situations every single episode they appear together?


This isn't a ship that sank, it's a ship that never even had its keel laid.

If you say so :p

Jo-Jo
26th December 2005, 4:55 AM
It might not become canon, but it does exists. The same way pokeshipping, advanceshipping, contestshipping, handymanshipping, rocketshipping and so many others do.
I think Magus was talking about canon-shipping, not fanon-shipping. ^^


Anyone would say the same about other pokemon shippings:
Umm... well. ^^;;; Some of us genuinely are more interested in correctly interpreting the show than in pretending that our pet crackships will happen. Honest! ;)

Magus
26th December 2005, 7:36 AM
Different?? Indeed, she did blush when Casey asked if Tracey was her boyfriend, the same way she used to when the same happened to Ash.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c46/Jolivine/advanceshipping/Orangeshipping/270367af.jpg
That barely-visible blush and calm brush-off is the same as Misty's reactions to people saying Ash is her boyfriend? You're kidding, right?

Compare that to later in the same Hoso, in a situation that doesn't involve Tracey at all.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7362/hoso97no.jpg

As I said in the Orangeshipping vs Handymanshipping thread, wouldn't it be more embarassing to be asked about the person you like when that person is right in front of you than when they're on the other side of town? The fact that Misty blushes more and gets angrier about a general question of whether she loves someone than about a specific question of whether Tracey is her boyfriend, right in front of Tracey, indicates that it's not Tracey she loves.


The contrary, they seem too interested in orangeshipping to me: so, whats the reason for the writers insistence into pushing Misty and Tracey into shippish situations every single episode they appear together?
What "shippish situations"? Being in the same scene isn't inherently "shippish".

intergalactic platypus
26th December 2005, 5:39 PM
too many people here are saying all because misty totally overreacted to the idea of getting together with ash and not tracey means orangeshipping doesnt exist, but thats simply not true. misty and tracey are far more mature then ash and misty, and ash and misty was more one of those childhood crushes that wouldnt amount to anything. misty and tracey, if it happens, would be more the type that could really cause a relationship. and the "she doesnt fight with him" argument is incredibly weak. if your in a relationship with someone, its kind of a plus to not constantly argue with them. i think pokeshippers are reading too deeply into it to try and pretend their ship is still likely, when in reality it has taken a backseat

Magus
26th December 2005, 8:38 PM
too many people here are saying all because misty totally overreacted to the idea of getting together with ash and not tracey means orangeshipping doesnt exist, but thats simply not true.
It's not just that Misty doesn't overreact to it, it's the general lack of hints that means Orangeshipping lacks a canon basis.


misty and tracey are far more mature then ash and misty
Misty is still Misty, whether you pair her with Ash, Tracey, or no one at all. Her hot temper is part of her personality, and you certainly can't say she no longer gets angry in the Hosos.


and ash and misty was more one of those childhood crushes that wouldnt amount to anything. misty and tracey, if it happens, would be more the type that could really cause a relationship.
That's your opinion, not a fact. I of course completely disagree. :D


and the "she doesnt fight with him" argument is incredibly weak. if your in a relationship with someone, its kind of a plus to not constantly argue with them.
Maybe so, but the argument against Orangeshipping is based on its general lack of hints, not just on the lack of any fights between them. It's not as if Ash and Misty always fought when they travelled together either.


i think pokeshippers are reading too deeply into it to try and pretend their ship is still likely, when in reality it has taken a backseat
Shipping in general has taken a back seat. But Pokéshipping still has a much stronger basis in canon than Orangeshipping.

CyberCubed
26th December 2005, 8:55 PM
It's not just that Misty doesn't overreact to it, it's the general lack of hints that means Orangeshipping lacks a canon basis.

Orangeshipping has less hints than Pokeshipping, that is obvious. Why? Misty/Tracey are hardly seen together. They get 4 episodes out of a 3 year arc to hint at it. You're comparing that to Pokeshipping, where they were together for EVERY episode all year round.


Misty is still Misty, whether you pair her with Ash, Tracey, or no one at all. Her hot temper is part of her personality, and you certainly can't say she no longer gets angry in the Hosos.

Where is her hot temper? I see her getting embarrassed, but I don't see her getting angry. Misty's temper faded ages ago, she's no longer the Misty from Kanto and Orange Islands. Misty now is more calm, motherly and demure, so obviously she's going to act differently nowadays.


Maybe so, but the argument against Orangeshipping is based on its general lack of hints, not just on the lack of any fights between them. It's not as if Ash and Misty always fought when they travelled together either.

Again, Misty/Tracey have a grand total of 4 episodes together since AG started. What do you expect them to do in only 4 episodes? Ships in this show take TIME, they're not going to suddenly have Misty and Tracey swooning over each other.


Shipping in general has taken a back seat. But Pokéshipping still has a much stronger basis in canon than Orangeshipping.

In the first 5 seasons? Yes. In AG, when Orangeshipping first started being hinted at? No. You're living in the past, I suggest you stop. TIME makes a difference, we're not living in 1998 anymore.

Swifty
26th December 2005, 9:34 PM
In the first 5 seasons? Yes. In AG, when Orangeshipping first started being hinted at? No. You're living in the past, I suggest you stop. TIME makes a difference, we're not living in 1998 anymore.lol internet. We actually wouldn't be arguing for PokeShipping this vehemently if it weren't for the hints we saw in the Hosos.

Proffesor Pikachu
26th December 2005, 9:41 PM
*sigh* don't want much flaming for this, but somehow I know I will get it. This is a Pokeshipper support post for those who don't see the banner or avatar.

Having watched most of the Chronicles/hosos whatever, I have read the body language between the three main characters that will come up in this debate, Misty, Tracey and Daisy, to the best of my ability, and somehow worked out, if they were real, what they'd be thinking. You may take me seriously or not, but I find this skill in real life as well as TV. Whether Nintendo/the Pokemon Company/4-Kids planned the body language this way i don't know, but this is how I read it.

1/ Misty shows none of the body language she showed towards Ash during the Orange island and Johto series, clearly two of the main P-shippy series, towards Tracey. No violence, no arguments, no overblown emotions.

2/ Tracey, as far as can tell, is trying to attract Daisy. Why i don't know, and I ain't a Handymanshipper in essence, I don't think about it much despite seeing it on a few occasions. He does jobs for her with little thought, and prefers to be aside her than Misty.

3/ When Tracey gave Azurill to Misty, as far as I can tell he was using her as a means of getting to Daisy or one of her other sisters, as can be told by the lack of blushing by Tracey when Misty did at the time they mentioned it. Tracey is simply being nice to Misty in the age old, befriend the younger sibling attract the older sibling trick.

4/ Misty still thinks a lot about Ash. She constantly wishes him luck mentally, and is always eager to be with him. She may consider Azurill a replacement for Togepi, and via this she has two things:

1) A new 'baby' for her and PIKACHU to look after.
2) A similarity with Ash, as they now both have three stage rodent Pokemon.

5/ Misty maintains a deep friendship with Pikachu, who could easily be considered a pseudo-brother to Ash. Yet again, the sibling trick.


There's probably some other stuff, but that's all I have currently. orangeshippers feel free to hate me, but that's just my point, you ould easily disagree. And please, let's keep this clean.







Good speach Nylf.I agree.:surfpika:

intergalactic platypus
26th December 2005, 10:45 PM
Misty is still Misty, whether you pair her with Ash, Tracey, or no one at all. Her hot temper is part of her personality, and you certainly can't say she no longer gets angry in the Hosos.
no, shes still misty but not the misty she was. shes grown up, and her interactions with tracey now show that shes far more mature and less tempermental then she was in kanto. her temper shined through much more when she was still traveling with ash. people grow up after all

Jo-Jo
27th December 2005, 1:05 AM
Plus, Misty interacts with Tracey in an entirely different way than with Ash. She and Ash were always at each others' throats, in true anime tradition. I think Misty was in denial about her feelings for him for a long time - up until Misty Meets Her Match, at a guess - and I got the strong impression that she was attracted to him against her will. In her mind, the guy she was destined to be with was "the mature, intellectual type", like she said to Danny. She didn't want to believe or accept that she'd gone and fallen for her idiotic, boorish, clueless best friend instead. Imagine how her sisters would make fun of her! ;) So it figured that she'd get angry and yell when other characters asked if she liked him. It wasn't just that she was embarrassed about being found out - it was that she was still sore about the fact that she liked Ash, of all people.

But with Tracey, the love/hate dynamic isn't there. There's no reason for Misty to go into denial about him, or get pissed off when Sakura and Casey assume he's her boyfriend. Sure, she'd still likely be embarrassed, but I think it makes sense for her reaction to be more subdued.

Chaotic Sponge
27th December 2005, 2:43 AM
I think I'll join into the fray...

I've been a hardcore Orangeshipper for a long time, I don't hate Pokeshipping per-say as much as I think Mistys' too good for Ash. That's right, I said it. =O.

I really doubt Misty's coming back. They could have done so much with her character, and given her so many pokemon, ect. But, when she's gone, May takes her place and gets alot of pokemon under such a small timeframe. I dunno about you guys, but that's a strong message to me that the chances of Misty coming back are extremely slim.

Hmm. Orangeshipping doesn't have a lot of hints, but the hints it has are indeed different from the Pokeshipping hints. But, most of the hints were in the 'older' days of pokemon, which leads me to believe that now the writers 'have matured' a bit and realized that someone doesn't have to scream "I DON'T LIKE THEM!" to imply embarrassment. Since, that's actaully a very kiddish way of showing that.

And yes, I KNOW this from experience.

And I can't figure out who said it, but someone said something about the characters' body langauge and stuff. As a artist, and someone who has aninimated stuff, DRAWING a animated picture with people showing 'perfect' body lanauage(Please forgive my bad spelling) is NOT a easy task. That's why anime usually relays on speaking...

Anywho, the Spongey ones' pullin' a outtie.
-Sponge.

Swifty
27th December 2005, 8:50 AM
So, the reason why Misty doesn't overreact when people accuse her of liking Tracey is because she has a different type of relationship with him and because she matured? That's a very good point. Sounds very plausible from Misty's character development I've seen in Hoso episodes.

One problem though. What can explain her blush of high intensity in the middle of A Date For Delcatty? That blush was relatively inconsistent with the rest, provided Casey and Misty were indeed thinking of Tracey when Casey vaguely asks Misty if there is someone out there she likes. Going by Jo-Jo's reasons why Misty would be embarassed about liking Ash, this blush seems more consistent with that scene referencing Misty's crush on Ash rather than referencing her supposed crush on Tracey.

So, why the inconsistency in her reactions with people trying to push her towards Tracey? When Sakura asks the question, she doesn't even blush at all. When Casey asks the question, she gives a weak blush. When Daisy suggests the idea of her and Tracey being in a play, she doesn't seem to overreact. Yet, when Casey brings up the question of where her romantic interests lie again, she loses it! So much for her having a different type of crush on Tracey...

...Or that is, maybe it wasn't Tracey she was thinking about when she did that bout of inconsistent blushing in A Date For Delcatty... ;)

Nylf
28th December 2005, 4:49 PM
That is the key point in this debate really that could swing things. The 'Date With Delcatty' hoso. Now Psyduck can't speak, swim or barely show any signs of intelligence or win a battle without a head ache. Now it makes you wonder what is his brain actually there for? Now, owing to his reaction to the question, a look of secret knowledge, means he knows something. Something we don't, that no-one, except Misty quite clearly judging by her reaction, knows. Now, Psyduck spends a lot of time going through Misty's stuff(I know it's been seen in a few anime episodes, or at least he spends most his time in his Pokeball in her bag), therefore he must've found something in there, or noticed something between Misty and another character that means he KNOWS she likes this character. Now most girls have a diary in which they keep stuff like WHO THEY LIKE. So the best conclusion we can draw up is Psyduck has seen her diary/journel/whatever she calls it. That would mean he knows exactly who she likes. Misty probably also knows, or does now, that Psyduck knows who she fancies. BUT Psyduck can't speak human, therefore the one hint that can tip the scales, is worth as much as my SFA. Because quite simply, that hint could be either shipping, r in fact ANY Misty shipping. The only possible evidence to lean it is Misty's reaction, which is exactly the same as whenever anyone accused her of liking Ash. But it can be argued that since Psyduck's knowledge is so definite that she's slightly angry so her reaction would be blown a bit over the top. So using this hint, until ANY firm basis is put behind it to where it lies is worthless. Though, IMO so you don't have to care much, her reaction means it leans more to a P-shipping hint than a O-shipping hint.

cold_katanagirl
28th December 2005, 8:29 PM
So, the reason why Misty doesn't overreact when people accuse her of liking Tracey is because she has a different type of relationship with him and because she matured? That's a very good point. Sounds very plausible from Misty's character development I've seen in Hoso episodes.

One problem though. What can explain her blush of high intensity in the middle of A Date For Delcatty? That blush was relatively inconsistent with the rest, provided Casey and Misty were indeed thinking of Tracey when Casey vaguely asks Misty if there is someone out there she likes. Going by Jo-Jo's reasons why Misty would be embarassed about liking Ash, this blush seems more consistent with that scene referencing Misty's crush on Ash rather than referencing her supposed crush on Tracey.

So, why the inconsistency in her reactions with people trying to push her towards Tracey? When Sakura asks the question, she doesn't even blush at all. When Casey asks the question, she gives a weak blush. When Daisy suggests the idea of her and Tracey being in a play, she doesn't seem to overreact. Yet, when Casey brings up the question of where her romantic interests lie again, she loses it! So much for her having a different type of crush on Tracey...

...Or that is, maybe it wasn't Tracey she was thinking about when she did that bout of inconsistent blushing in A Date For Delcatty... ;)Disregarding the later blushing incident, Misty's reactions are still a bit inconsistent with each other.

1. When Sakura accuses Tracey and Misty of liking each other, it's casually waved off.

2. When Casey does earlier in the epiosde, she's blushing a tiny amount and seems more annoyed than last time.

3. When Daisy does it, it's waved off as being ridiculous or crazy or whatever they said.

Some say she was more annoyed with Casey because of the "constant" accusations she was going through. The problem with that is that she wasn't annoyed when Daisy did it, and I imagine she would be more annoyed when her sister does it for various reasons. Even if we don't count the later Psyduck thing, Misty's reactions are inconsistent with each other.

What I find odd is that Misty seems more embarrassed when Tracey isn't even around. Strange though, you would think most girls would be embarrassed with the guy they like with them.

CyberCubed
28th December 2005, 9:58 PM
So what can we say? The writers are never consistent. :p

cold_katanagirl
28th December 2005, 10:10 PM
So what can we say? The writers are never consistent. :p... Basically.

Unless you want to say the earlier blushing was supposed to be foreshadowing up to the bigger one. Bit of a stretch, but it sort of makes a bit more sense to me than it being Ash when he wasn't mentioned at all.

*sigh*

Chaotic Sponge
28th December 2005, 10:39 PM
Now, Psyduck spends a lot of time going through Misty's stuff(I know it's been seen in a few anime episodes, or at least he spends most his time in his Pokeball in her bag), therefore he must've found something in there, or noticed something between Misty and another character that means he KNOWS she likes this character. Now most girls have a diary in which they keep stuff like WHO THEY LIKE. So the best conclusion we can draw up is Psyduck has seen her diary/journel/whatever she calls it. That would mean he knows exactly who she likes. Misty probably also knows, or does now, that Psyduck knows who she fancies. BUT Psyduck can't speak human, therefore the one hint that can tip the scales, is worth as much as my SFA.

One problem with that- You're assuming Psyduck can read. The shows' never hitted at pokemon being able to read before (from what I recall) and what are the chances of a duck that can't even swim having that gift?

For it all to be certain, we'd need more husos, which I doubt'll happen.

intergalactic platypus
28th December 2005, 11:06 PM
i think they wouldnt make a big romantic hoso around it though. it would probably be a reference, like "hey misty and tracey are together now". romantic specials arent really pokemon like, so no hope for a hoso unfortunatley