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asia_catdog_blue
12th December 2005, 11:18 PM
Has Ash & his friends ever broke the 4th wall?

Fatal
12th December 2005, 11:23 PM
What 4th wall?

poke_life
12th December 2005, 11:30 PM
No idea what your talking about, sorry

poke_life
12th December 2005, 11:30 PM
No idea what your talking about, sorry

Gravy
12th December 2005, 11:33 PM
What 4th wall?
Oy vey...

When a character 'breaks the 4th wall', it refers to them making some sort of comment which shows that they are aware of the fact that they're just animated characters/actors in a television show. The 4th wall, iirc, is essentially the TV screen itself. Eh, I'm sure Jesse would be able to provide a more accurate description of the term, but thats the gist of it at least.

I don't recall Ash or any of his posse breaking the 4th wall, but I can recall a few instances where Team Rocket have done so, though I'm to assume most of them are probably dub added.
One that sticks out was Meowth's comment of "Oh right! I forgot, the cartoonist never gave me a nose!" in the episode 'Pokémon Scent-sation"~

MondoTR
12th December 2005, 11:38 PM
One time after getting written on by Jigglypuff, Ash (I think) mentioned something about looking like cartoon characters or something and where was a sound to go with it. I'm sure that was also dub added but it kinda counts.

Devilrose
12th December 2005, 11:40 PM
I recall a "Why didn't we use this plan in the first place?" "Because we had 30 minutes to fill!" from Team Rocket once...>.>

PDL
12th December 2005, 11:43 PM
Team Rocket used to do it all the time back in the first few seasons...

now they don't seem to do it all that often...

MondoTR
12th December 2005, 11:46 PM
The second movie mentioned it being a movie a few times.

Heracross
12th December 2005, 11:47 PM
I recall a "Why didn't we use this plan in the first place?" "Because we had 30 minutes to fill!" from Team Rocket once...>.>
"Hypno's Naptime" to be exact.

The second movie mentioned it being a movie a few times.
Ash[interrputing Team Rocket's motto]: I'll have to catch this on video!

There was also one in the third movie:

Jessie: Sometimes it's better not to ask questions.
Meowth: Hey Jessie, I got a question that's better I shouldn't ask. Do you we're gonna get a bigger part in da next movie?

CyberCubed
13th December 2005, 12:18 AM
There was also one in the third movie:

Jessie: There are some questions it's better not to ask.
Meowth: I got a question maybe it's better I shouldn't ask. Do you think they'll give us a bigger role in the next novie?

LOL, I remember that. Poor poor, Team Rocket. Little did Meowth know that in each of the following movies they'd get less and less screentime than the previous ones.

wobbanut
13th December 2005, 12:44 AM
James: We'd like to thank all our fans for their loyalty and support. ("Pikachu's Goodbye")

And don't forget Meowth's "Hi, fans!" to the camera in "Lights Camera Quacktion".

PDL
13th December 2005, 12:51 AM
one question about all those 4th wall lines...

were they dub-added or did they appear in the Japanese version? do the Japanese even use the concept of breaking the 4th wall when writing anime/manga?

Brocksketchum
13th December 2005, 12:55 AM
I remember in the Drake episode that Jessie said something about it being better planned even if she wrote it on script.

There was another time when in the episode where someone is trying to catch the Crystal Onix, Team Rocket (I don't know who, foggy memory and laziness)
said the writers couldn't figure out how they escaped from their own traps.

Oy, that Team Rocket. :D

Gravy
13th December 2005, 1:16 AM
Brock: "C'mon you guys, we're already running late, its time to start the show!"

From 'The school of Hard Knocks', just before the title card :P


Do the Japanese even use the concept of breaking the 4th wall when writing anime/manga?
Excel Saga. Bobobo BoBo-BoBo. Those shows thrive on demolishing the 4th wall.
You even get that sort of thing in the more serious shows. Erm...ahh, a good example was this one bumper before some Naruto episode iirc. It had Naruto telling the audience that the show was moving to the 'Golden Time' slot on the channel, but then he found out he was half an hour early and left the others to quickly get ready in their changing rooms. Thats not a particulary good example, but its the only one that came to mind ^^;

In any case, its definatly not unheard of and its seen in a crapload of shows. Just not sure about Pokémon as all :p

S.Suikun
13th December 2005, 1:27 AM
The first few movies chiseled the 4th Wall to bits.
"You think we'll get a bigger part in the next movie?"

I don't remember any such quotes since Lord of the Unown Tower, though.

Heracross
13th December 2005, 1:27 AM
I'm sure the one from "Pokémon Scent-sation" was in the original, as Nyasu's expressions and hand gestures fit everything he was saying. The others may or may not have been dub added.

Kamex
13th December 2005, 1:41 AM
One time after getting written on by Jigglypuff, Ash (I think) mentioned something about looking like cartoon characters or something and where was a sound to go with it. I'm sure that was also dub added but it kinda counts.
That one was from "Beach Blank-Out Blastoise", the episode on the turtle Pokemon island right after the Cinnabar Island two-parter.

In the Team Rocket song that sometimes replaces the motto (I wish they'd play that song again) the song ends with something like:


We want to capture Pikachu, we hope to do it soon
And when we do, we'll be the new stars of this
CARTOON~!

I had another one, but I forgot it.

Jesse GS the II
13th December 2005, 3:25 PM
Breaking the fourth wall is a cartoon tradition going as far back as the silent cartoons of the 1910s and 1920s, so it's no surprise that it shows up in Japan from time to time. Aside from the given examples, "Pocket Monsters" doesn't have a whole lot of it, but as mentioned above, "Excel Saga" sure does.

Chris
13th December 2005, 5:55 PM
Most of them are indeed English dub only. However, the Japanese dub has on the occassion broken the fourth wall a few times. Just not as often as 4Kids has done with the show.

Heliotrope
13th December 2005, 8:54 PM
They do it all the time in "Slayers". And since Slayers and Pocket Monsters are made by the same animation company, it doesn't surprise me that they do it in Pokemon. ^_^

Another thing that Slayers was famous for was making references to other Animes. But I haven't noticed that much in Pokemon.

PDL
13th December 2005, 9:31 PM
Another thing that Slayers was famous for was making references to other Animes. But I haven't noticed that much in Pokemon.

only one I can think of is when Brock's siblings clung onto Ash just as he was about to win against Onix...

but I can see references to other cartoons that are not animes at all...

Pikachu and Meowth's relationship is simlair to the cliche Cat&Mouse relationship, like Tom and Jerry

and Psyduck is the goofball duck, like Daffy or Donald Duck, only without the supierioity complex

asia_catdog_blue
13th December 2005, 9:55 PM
only one I can think of is when Brock's siblings clung onto Ash just as he was about to win against Onix...

but I can see references to other cartoons that are not animes at all...

Pikachu and Meowth's relationship is simlair to the cliche Cat&Mouse relationship, like Tom and Jerry

and Psyduck is the goofball duck, like Daffy or Donald Duck, only without the supierioity complex

What?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geki
14th December 2005, 1:59 AM
Oy vey...

When a character 'breaks the 4th wall', it refers to them making some sort of comment which shows that they are aware of the fact that they're just animated characters/actors in a television show. The 4th wall, iirc, is essentially the TV screen itself. Eh, I'm sure Jesse would be able to provide a more accurate description of the term, but thats the gist of it at least.

I don't recall Ash or any of his posse breaking the 4th wall, but I can recall a few instances where Team Rocket have done so, though I'm to assume most of them are probably dub added.
One that sticks out was Meowth's comment of "Oh right! I forgot, the cartoonist never gave me a nose!" in the episode 'Pokémon Scent-sation"~

I remember that episode. And unfornuatly, that was the only time that one of the characters ''broke the 4th Wall''.

MondoTR
14th December 2005, 12:18 PM
I remember that episode. And unfornuatly, that was the only time that one of the characters ''broke the 4th Wall''.
No it's not. Read the thread, many other times were mentioned.

And since people are naming other anime that break the 4th wall, Duel Masters does it a lot.

Dogasu
14th December 2005, 3:34 PM
Another thing that Slayers was famous for was making references to other Animes. But I haven't noticed that much in Pokemon.

They do it all the time, really, but most of the references are to older shows that most Americans aren't familiar with.

Kamex
15th December 2005, 12:41 AM
And since people are naming other anime that break the 4th wall, Duel Masters does it a lot.
Now that you mention it, that show (at least the dub) is practically the king of... 4th Wall Breaking. O_o Whevever I stumble onto the show there's a good chance they'll do it in the next minute. I get the feeling, though, that a lot of people consider it a bad dub for that very reason.

MondoTR
15th December 2005, 1:00 AM
Now that you mention it, that show (at least the dub) is practically the king of... 4th Wall Breaking. O_o Whevever I stumble onto the show there's a good chance they'll do it in the next minute. I get the feeling, though, that a lot of people consider it a bad dub for that very reason.
I find things that break the fourth wall to amusing and that's the reason I started watching Duel Masters.

Kamex
15th December 2005, 1:05 AM
I find things that break the fourth wall to amusing and that's the reason I started watching Duel Masters.
Well, I wasn't saying I didn't like it. I find it very amusing to, and I was rather disappointed that many people seemed not to like how they break the 4th wall so often. While I don't watch the show regularly, I think it can be funny, and here's a quote to prove it of breaking the 4th wall:

Paraphrased (I don't know who the guy that said this was): ...and it took you twenty episodes to figure it out!

Geodude
15th December 2005, 1:59 AM
Ash[interrputing Team Rocket's motto]: I'll have to catch this on video!
Here's the full quote:

Jessie: Prepare for more trouble than you've ever seen!
James: And make it double, we're on the big screen!
Ash: I'll have to catch this on video!

It isn't anime, but Garfield and Friends broke the fourth wall constantly. For example, Garfield's mouse friend Floyd often complained about how he only appeared on the show about once a season. And occasionally a character would reach offscreen and pull up the cartoon's title card.

rjendo
15th December 2005, 2:16 AM
OK, the quote from the Crystal Onix was:
ASH: Them again!
PIKACHU: Pika!
MISTY: I don't get it, how did you guys escape?
JAMES: That is a secret you will never know!
JESSIE: The writers can't figure it out either!

LOL! I love it. There's an awesome wav file of it out there somewhere!

Amadeus
15th December 2005, 2:32 AM
I think I've heard Ash humming the theme before... I don't really watch the show much, though... I may be getting it confused with something else.

Heracross
15th December 2005, 2:40 AM
I think I've heard Ash humming the theme before... I don't really watch the show much, though... I may be getting it confused with something else.
He was humming "Pokémon Kimi ni Kimeta" at the beginning of "Here Comes the Squirtle Squad". Though iirc, it was something else in the original.

Alastor DMc
15th December 2005, 5:55 AM
They "break the 4th wall" in early Dragon Ball a lot. I think Naruto himself did it a few times, and Kon from Bleach does it every now and then. I usually find it funny when they do it, Team Rocket's breakage was what made me start to like the show. After they seemed to have taken some of the humor out I stopped watching Pokemon (I also got a job, went away to school, got a girl friend... basicly, I couldn't watch Pokemon anymore)

Yamato-san
15th December 2005, 6:38 AM
They do it all the time in "Slayers". And since Slayers and Pocket Monsters are made by the same animation company, it doesn't surprise me that they do it in Pokemon. ^_^

Another thing that Slayers was famous for was making references to other Animes. But I haven't noticed that much in Pokemon.

Personally, I can't help but notice similarities between characters in Pokemon and other roles that their seiyuu played (usually their most famous role). Dogasu's site mentions the Fushigi Yuugi reference during Takeshi's first appearance, for one. For more recent episodes, someone posted a couple of pictures here to point out the striking resemblance between the anime's portrayal of Adan and FMA's Frank Archer. Harley speaks while using a ton of Engrish (Sonic the Hedgehog), and Masamune's your mountain boy with a huge appetite (Son Gokuu).

Lupin
15th December 2005, 2:08 PM
OK, the quote from the Crystal Onix was:
ASH: Them again!
PIKACHU: Pika!
MISTY: I don't get it, how did you guys escape?
JAMES: That is a secret you will never know!
JESSIE: The writers can't figure it out either!

LOL! I love it. There's an awesome wav file of it out there somewhere!

That was the one I was going to metion :D.

Its my personal favorite

Chris
15th December 2005, 8:11 PM
For more recent episodes, someone posted a couple of pictures here to point out the striking resemblance between the anime's portrayal of Adan and FMA's Frank Archer.
That t'was me who posted those pictures. :O


They "break the 4th wall" in early Dragon Ball a lot.
When? o_O

CyberCubed
15th December 2005, 8:12 PM
Goku holds the United States flag to trick Ninja Murasaki.

I didn't know the U.S. existed in the Dragonball world. :p

asia_catdog_blue
15th December 2005, 10:50 PM
They don't... at least, that what I thought, but on the Dragon Ball Z special, "Super Android 13," Roshi said "Miss Spain, Miss Russia," and so on.

MagicBox
15th December 2005, 10:57 PM
They don't... at least, that what I thought, but on the Dragon Ball Z special, "Super Android 13," Roshi said "Miss Spain, Miss Russia," and so on.Well, first of all, that was dub-only. Second of all, breaking the forth-wall and making refrences to real-life places are two totally different things.

Pika Hikari KT
16th December 2005, 1:40 AM
Now that you mention it, that show (at least the dub) is practically the king of... 4th Wall Breaking. O_o
Wrong. That title easily belongs to Bo-bobo Bobobo-bo. It's also another animé that makes references to other animé.;)

Chris
16th December 2005, 5:44 AM
Goku holds the United States flag to trick Ninja Murasaki.

I didn't know the U.S. existed in the Dragonball world. :p
A goof up on Toriyama's part considering he pretty much said Dragon World is not our world.


They don't... at least, that what I thought, but on the Dragon Ball Z special, "Super Android 13," Roshi said "Miss Spain, Miss Russia," and so on.
FUNimation once again has no idea what they're doing when it comes to Dragon Ball Z's English script. Such names didn't exist in the original.

And let's get this topic back onto being about Pokémon. >_>

MondoTR
16th December 2005, 11:31 AM
Wrong. That title easily belongs to Bo-bobo Bobobo-bo. It's also another animé that makes references to other animé.;)
I only seen the first episode of Bo^7 so I can't compare it to Duel Masters to figure out which breaks the fourth wall the most but Duel Masters does it a lot as well. And Duel Masters also references to other anime. It even references to shows (at least in the dub). Yesterday there was a reference to the show "Who's the Boss" and one of the stars, Tony Danza (his last name may be spelled wrong).

Heliotrope
17th December 2005, 3:54 PM
The only references to other Anime's that I can come up with are these:

1: Reference to Fushigi Yuugi.

I think someone's mentioned it before, but when Ash went to battle Brock in the Pewter gym battle episode and all of Brock's little brothers and sister clung to Ash and held him back, it really reminded me of that bit from FY when Tamahome's siblings held Suboshi back.

And Suboshi and Brock have the same voice actor in the Japanese version.


2: Reference to Slayers.

The ghost of maiden's peak statue looked exactly like the Orihalcon (spell check?) statue in the first season of Slayers.


3: Reference to Utena?

I've never seen the Anime myself, but I've heard that when Jessie and James dress up in the prince and princess outfits (such as the ones from "Pokemon fashion flash"), that it's a blatant reference to Utena.


4: Reference to Sailor Moon?

James and his roses has reminded me of Tuxedo Kamen. Also several villains from Sailor Moon (such as Kunzite) use roses a lot.


Not really a reference, but something that just amused me; I find it hilarious that Nastina (the woman from "Tentacool & Tentacruel"), who in the Japanese version is voiced by Sakamoto Chika (Nuriko from Fushigi Yuugi) is surrounded by lots of feminine guys dressed in nothing but speedos.

Because quite frankly if that was Nuriko in Nastina's place, he'd be in heaven. ^_^;

Chris
17th December 2005, 4:21 PM
4: Reference to Sailor Moon?

James and his roses has reminded me of Tuxedo Kamen. Also several villains from Sailor Moon (such as Kunzite) use roses a lot.
Actually, a more blatant reference to Sailor Moon was in the debut episode of Phantom. We see the Rocket Gang wearing tuxedos and masks, holding roses, while Sonansu smashes right through the moon in the background. Obvious reference to Tuxedo Kamen.

Lupin
21st December 2005, 12:44 PM
Does Taz count?

They always make refrenses to the fact they know they are on a cartoon

MaskedManAbsolkid
21st December 2005, 5:18 PM
In one Pokemon episode, Ash either hums the pokemon center theme from R/B/Y or the Pokemon theme tune.

Chris
21st December 2005, 5:35 PM
That would be the dub.

Jesse GS the II
21st December 2005, 6:10 PM
Does Taz count?

They always make refrenses to the fact they know they are on a cartoon

I assume you're referring to "Taz-Mania". And yeah, as I said before, it's a cartoon tradition. If we tried to list every cartoon that's broken the fourth wall, we'd have about thirty-five pages in this thread.

wobbanut
24th December 2005, 1:01 AM
In one Pokemon episode, Ash either hums the pokemon center theme from R/B/Y or the Pokemon theme tune.

That was "Here Comes the Squirtle Squad".

RedJirachi
9th June 2006, 9:59 AM
Could it be possible that our entire reality is just an imagination,dream or tv show of our or someone's imagination?Can we prove this when everything in the universe could be it's own brain of thouht,and we are just part of an imagination that barely exists?

pikadon92
9th June 2006, 11:06 AM
After Ash got the lightning badge in season 1, as Team Rocket were walking, James said that they waisted that episode being the good guys.

Dark_Scyther
9th June 2006, 12:52 PM
At the end of Movie 2, when Team Rocket were with Slowking. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like "Lots of people saw you" or something like that.

Chris
9th June 2006, 2:03 PM
You guys are breaking something; a rule.

No necroposting, dammit.