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Kagome Higurashi
17th December 2005, 9:39 PM
Which do you think is more plausible or more likely to happen, orangeshipping or handymanshipping?

cold_katanagirl
18th December 2005, 2:56 AM
Both of them seem kinda overrated to me. =/

Buuuut I'd go with Orangeshipping. Feel free... To disagree.

Meganium Ex
18th December 2005, 3:00 AM
I'd go with OrangeShipping...It seemed to have alot of more hints then HandyManShipping >.>

taitofan
18th December 2005, 3:01 AM
...Put all three together and have a nice threesome. <3

But out of the two, I prefer Orangeshipping. No real reason... I've liked it since the Orange Island episodes. I'm not all that crazy about it nowadays though. As for plausibility... I suppose both could happen, though it's doubtful that either will become canon.

cold_katanagirl
18th December 2005, 3:03 AM
Anyone happen to have hints for Handymanshipping? Whenever I ask I either get ignored or someone says "LOOK AT THE EPISPDESAEKLGAHWELRKJE" or something along those lines.

Chaka27
18th December 2005, 3:20 AM
Well dosent Daisy SAY he is cute in the Cronicles????

CyberCubed
18th December 2005, 3:28 AM
I really don't care if either becomes canon, since I'm not exactly crazy about either. I suppose Orangeshipping has a slightly better chance since the writers will want to give Misty her happily ever after.

Especially since Misty was a former main character and she deserves closure, moreso than Daisy. And Misty with Tracey would be the "Hey, we're the two former main characters that got kicked off the series and now the writers have pushed us together to give us our happy ending!"

I suspect Orangeshipping will become canon if Misty does indeed remain off the show forever.

Chaka27
18th December 2005, 3:44 AM
I really don't care if either becomes canon, since I'm not exactly crazy about either. I suppose Orangeshipping has a slightly better chance since the writers will want to give Misty her happily ever after.

Especially since Misty was a former main character and she deserves closure, moreso than Daisy. And Misty with Tracey would be the "Hey, we're the two former main characters that got kicked off the series and now the writers have pushed us together to give us our happy ending!"

I suspect Orangeshipping will become canon if Misty does indeed remain off the show forever.

Well I support BOTH but Orange is More Likely...

Jo-Jo
18th December 2005, 4:02 AM
I love Handymanshipping, but Orangeshipping is the one the writers seem to be going with... eh, c'est la vie.

I'm with cold_katanagirl, though - what are the Handymanshipping hints, anyway?

Lux
19th December 2005, 5:26 AM
Orangeshipping is most likely to happen. Even Daisy seems to take a liking for this shipping - she paired up Misty and Tracey in her fantasy play. If she was supposed to love Tracy, why in the hell did she imagine Misty as the mermaid instead of herself?

Shego
19th December 2005, 6:15 PM
I figured that Orangeshipping is going to happen. I must admit that Daisy like them as a couple. Even I admire their relationship. I can't wait to see that!

cold_katanagirl
19th December 2005, 11:11 PM
Where the hell are all the Handymanshippers, at Bulbagarden? Weren't there alot more here? O____o

CyberCubed
20th December 2005, 12:05 AM
Where the hell are all the Handymanshippers, at Bulbagarden? Weren't there alot more here? O____o

Seemingly some are Pokeshippers here, but they don't bother to post.

Bulbagarden has the Handymanshippers, but that's because the place is filled with Pokeshippers. The shipping community there is like 90% Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping, with the last 10% for Delia/Oak or Delia/Giovanni.

Other ships get no love there, bah. One of the reasons why I like SPP better, there's so much more variety here. Lots of different ships have thriving topics here, and people aren't biased toward a single ship. That and this place has a ton of more users and is more lively. :p

Chaka27
20th December 2005, 12:08 AM
Seemingly some are Pokeshippers here, but they don't bother to post.

Bulbagarden has the Handymanshippers, but that's because the place is filled with Pokeshippers. The shipping community there is like 90% Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping, with the last 10% for Delia/Oak or Delia/Giovanni.

Other ships get no love there, bah. One of the reasons why I like SPP better, there's so much more variety here. Lots of different ships have thriving topics here, and people aren't biased toward a single ship. That and this place has a ton of more users and is more lively. :p

Plus the people here are generally more friendly and respectful^^...

CyberCubed
20th December 2005, 12:17 AM
Well don't get me wrong, Bulbagarden has a great shipping community too, it's just that the majority of people there only support ships from the first 5 seasons (Poke and Rocketshipping) Too bad other ships don't get as much support.

But eh, let's get back on topic. :p Someone get Alfonso in here.

Swifty
20th December 2005, 12:31 AM
I actually posted something concerning my reasons why I think HandymanShipping seems more likely than OrangeShipping. Then I realized that I typed it up after I had just finished pulling an all-nighter studying for finals and deleted it after an hour. :p

Alfonso
20th December 2005, 12:34 AM
Well don't get me wrong, Bulbagarden has a great shipping community too, it's just that the majority of people there only support ships from "the original series" (Poke and Rocketshipping) Too bad other ships don't get as much support.

But eh, let's get back on topic. :p Someone get Alfonso in here.

You called?

The whole basis of HandyManshipping seems to have originated from one episode's worth of supposed hints, which had Tracey helping Daisy out at the Gym.

But then, thinking about Tracey's character, that doesn't say a lot. He's a naturally nice guy that likes to help other people. He helped Misty pass her Badge Test, for example. He didn't have to, considering that it was just Misty's responsibility. He was also very worried about that Nurse Joy in 'A Joy of Pokemon'. Sure, Ash and Misty were too, but it was he that actually took action and jumped back into his canoe to go look for her.

He's just a nice guy that helped someone out. However, this isn't the only reason why HandyManshippers started to sprout up. Along with Cyber and a few others, I was here when the Hoso originally aired in Japan, so I remember the original reactions to the episode...

The majority of people who were jumping on the HandyManshipping bandwagon were Pokeshippers, just like the majority of the very first Contestshippers were Pokeshippers. (This was still at a time when there was still quite a lot of dislike towards May and her intentions towards Ash. Many people considered her some sort of 'witch' that needed to be kept away from Ash at all costs. When Shuu first appeared, many Pokeshippers saw him as a perfect way to shove May towards another man. I even remember one of the quotes. "As long as May stays away from Ash, I'm not bothered, so I guess I'll be a Contestshipping and keep May well away from Ash as possible." Obviously not an exact quote, and it certainly lacked proper English, but that's basically what was being said at the time.)

Basically, Daisy was someone to dump Tracey with to keep him away from Misty in the eyes of the fans, who at the time must have been rather worried because Misty had left and was having new encounters with fresh, tempting young men far away from Ash. Just like Shuu was someone to dump May with.

Chaka27
20th December 2005, 12:42 AM
You called?

The whole basis of HandyManshipping seems to have originated from one episode's worth of supposed hints, which had Tracey helping Daisy out at the Gym.

But then, thinking about Tracey's character, that doesn't say a lot. He's a naturally nice guy that likes to help other people. He helped Misty pass her Badge Test, for example. He didn't have to, considering that it was just Misty's responsibility. He was also very worried about that Nurse Joy in 'A Joy of Pokemon'. Sure, Ash and Misty were too, but it was he that actually took action and jumped back into his canoe to go look for her.

He's just a nice guy that helped someone out. However, this isn't the only reason why HandyManshippers started to sprout up. Along with Cyber and a few others, I was here when the Hoso originally aired in Japan, so I remember the original reactions to the episode...

The majority of people who were jumping on the HandyManshipping bandwagon were Pokeshippers, just like the majority of the very first Contestshippers were Pokeshippers. (This was still at a time when there was still quite a lot of dislike towards May and her intentions towards Ash. Many people considered her some sort of 'witch' that needed to be kept away from Ash at all costs. When Shuu first appeared, many Pokeshippers saw him as a perfect way to shove May towards another man. I even remember one of the quotes. "As long as May stays away from Ash, I'm not bothered, so I guess I'll be a Contestshipping and keep May well away from Ash as possible." Obviously not an exact quote, and it certainly lacked proper English, but that's basically what was being said at the time.)

Basically, Daisy was someone to dump Tracey with to keep him away from Misty in the eyes of the fans, who at the time must have been rather worried because Misty had left and was having new encounters with fresh, tempting young men far away from Ash. Just like Shuu was someone to dump May with.

those pokeshippers can be so mean sometimes^^....

Alfonso
20th December 2005, 12:45 AM
those pokeshippers can be so mean sometimes^^....

Hmmmm.

Perhaps, but then if May appeared in an episode that contained Shuu and a new female character, then I bet Advanceshippers would jump on her a pairing for him to keep him away from May.

Don't anybody get any ideas here. I'm not on any side, just my own.

...

...

...

Now that... was dramatic.

Swifty
20th December 2005, 1:09 AM
It's simple cognitive dissonance really. Humans do it all the time, even public leaders and officials. Johnson did it during the Vietnam War. Adlai Stevenson did it during the Korean War. It makes perfect sense that people concerned with something unimportant like romantic relationships in a kid's anime would do it as well.


Plus the people here are generally more friendly and respectful^^...So, have you ever even been to Bulbagarden? People there generally don't give a big fuss if you're a pokeshipper or not. Argumentative? Perhaps. Less friendly? Hell, no.


Well don't get me wrong, Bulbagarden has a great shipping community too, it's just that the majority of people there only support ships from the first 5 seasons (Poke and Rocketshipping) Too bad other ships don't get as much support.It makes perfect sense, considering the average age for most active users there is at least eighteen. These are the guys that have been PokeShippers and RocketShippers from the beginning when the relationships were in their primes when they were forged from the Kanto and Orange episodes. I find it funny that barely anyone on Bulbgarden except for Jo-Jo and I gives a damn about ContestShipping, despite the fact that it's so not a conflict of interest with PokeShipping.

CyberCubed
20th December 2005, 1:27 AM
It makes perfect sense, considering the average age for most active users there is at least eighteen. These are the guys that have been PokeShippers and RocketShippers from the beginning when the relationships were in their primes when they were forged from the Kanto and Orange episodes.

Sure, but the fact like they act that those are still the only plausible ships in Pokemon is mind boggling.

I always thought that AG was far more complex with it's pairings. Back in Pocket Monsters all you really had was Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping as the "main character" plausible ships.

Now with AG you have Pokeshipping, Advanceshipping, Contestshipping, Orangeshipping, and Rocketshipping in the spotlight. Even though two of the ships have been pushed in the backround lately (Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping).

Age has nothing to do with it, I've been watching since the first season and I'm 20 now. Yet I'm neither a Pokeshipper nor a Rocketshipper. Funny.

Alfonso
20th December 2005, 1:30 AM
Well, back in the old Kanto days, there was still Gymshipping floating about, (Which I recall being a rather popular ship thanks to the Lighthouse episode.) and for the yaoi fanl, Palletshipping. So not *entirely* limited to Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping back in the first series.

Speaking of the latter... pushed into the background? More like ripped apart by the writers. -_-;

Swifty
20th December 2005, 2:35 AM
Sure, but the fact like they act that those are still the only plausible ships in Pokemon is mind boggling.

I always thought that AG was far more complex with it's pairings. Back in Pocket Monsters all you really had was Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping as the "main character" plausible ships.

Now with AG you have Pokeshipping, Advanceshipping, Contestshipping, Orangeshipping, Rocketshipping in the spotlight. Even though two of the ships have been pushed in the backround lately (Pokeshipping and Rocketshipping).

Age has nothing to do with it, I've been watching since the first season and I'm 20 now. Yet I'm not either a Pokeshipper or Rocketshipper. Funny.Could it be that they don't consider some other ships plausible because they have attitudes, beliefs, and empirical evidence that state otherwise? The guys at Bulbagarden are pretty damn smart. If you don't think so, then you have to at least say that they're the most rational people I've seen on the Pokemon Internet community. I have no doubt that they've thought about what they believe in and tried to challenge their own opinions as I have done so myself.

What you will find is that this ends up turning into an argument about what point of view and perspective is and how experiences and empirical memories change human character and opinions. I'm a Political Science major. Differing opinions is a given in my field with disagreements ranging from liberals versus conservatives to whether the Democratic Peace Theory advocated by Immanuel Kant is valid or not. I'm not going to tear my hair out of my head in trying to understand why someone as intelligent as you think AdvanceShipping is going to be canon. Nor should you think that the guys at Bulbagarden are bonkers for believing that only a select certain relationships are plausible.

cold_katanagirl
20th December 2005, 2:46 AM
...

Soooooo, any Handymanshipping hints you want to discuss? :D

Alfonso
20th December 2005, 2:54 AM
...

Soooooo, any Handymanshipping hints you want to discuss? :D

You mean the hints in the episode they decided to rip up into tiny peices and never show because non of it makes sense and was utter nonsense?

Swifty
20th December 2005, 3:00 AM
The scene Daisy and Tracey has alone which interrupts the narrative during Misty and Georgio's battle was "kawaii desu ne." It's not really a hint though. I took it more as a meta-hint.

CyberCubed
20th December 2005, 4:48 PM
A good example someone gave on another forum, if Daisy is interested in Tracey, then why did she imagine a romantic moment between Tracey and her sister? Why did Daisy imagine Misty as the mermaid rather than herself?

Surely the Sensation Sisters all take turns playing the Mermaid while Misty was traveling, so it's not like she was the only option either.

FabuVinny
20th December 2005, 9:09 PM
Damn! And I thought I'd convinced you over on Bulbagarden. And I left that thread more of a HandymanShipper than I came in, too.

Now, I personally only saw the plausability of HandymanShipping in the Luvdisc episode. It was only after that that I linked it with the Delcatty episode and saw the devlopment of a ship.

And just so you don't claim I am jumping on the convenient ship for Pok&#233;Shipping I was an OrangeShipper earlier this year. But then I actually saw the facts and saw that there really isn't that much going for OrangeShipping. Besides Misty's denial of Tracey being her boyfriend in a way that actually makes Tracey not her boyfrend, and an Azurill that links to Oak using Misty for his benefit in the Delcatty episode, what does OrangeShipping have left?

The Meowth Daisy fantasy. Just as Meowth does every week, Daisy wants to use the Pok&#233;mon of the Day to her benefit. She is really into romance, so it is hardly surprising that she came up with a show like that. And Misty and Tracey are cheap labour. ;) But do you really see Tracey as a handsome prince? Interesting that Daisy does...

cold_katanagirl
20th December 2005, 10:59 PM
But then I actually saw the facts and saw that there really isn't that much going for OrangeShipping. Besides Misty's denial of Tracey being her boyfriend in a way that actually makes Tracey not her boyfrend, and an Azurill that links to Oak using Misty for his benefit in the Delcatty episode, what does OrangeShipping have left?It's not like Handymanshipping has anything more to it. =/

When Casey accused her of liking Tracey, that seemed to be a bit shippy to me. I find it odd Misty and Tracey have been in love situations three times (one of them being Daisy herself putting them up in a play) while Daisy and Tracey haven't been accused by anyone yet.
The Meowth Daisy fantasy. Just as Meowth does every week, Daisy wants to use the Pok&#233;mon of the Day to her benefit. She is really into romance, so it is hardly surprising that she came up with a show like that. And Misty and Tracey are cheap labour. ;) But do you really see Tracey as a handsome prince? Interesting that Daisy does...I'm still not buying Daisy would imagine her younger sister with a guy she liked so she could use them for her benefit. I don't see why her imagining herself, blushing, or something like that wasn't included. I fail to see why she didn't at least imagine herself first for a couple of seconds.

CyberCubed
20th December 2005, 11:11 PM
I dunno, Daisy sure put a lot of "thought" in her "daydream" of her "sister" and "Tracey" "together". There's a hell of a lot of hearts and blushes in Daisy's daydream:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/scott85/879c49c2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/scott85/38567d52.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/scott85/d1e9583e.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/scott85/063097fa.jpg

Daisy sure has a vivid imagination of her sister and Tracey. Methinks Daisy might subconciously think they're a good couple.

On another note, Misty is friggin hot in this daydream. And I usually don't find Misty attractive. But damn, if Misty looked like this all the time and had May's chest, I'd be all over her.

Swifty
20th December 2005, 11:29 PM
When Casey accused her of liking Tracey, that seemed to be a bit shippy to me. It seemed like she was more annoyed that people try pairing her up with Tracey rather than being embarassed about liking him. If that accusation was supposed to be supportive of OrangeShipping, then the episode would have affirmed our suspicions by the second time Casey asks Misty if "There's someone else." However, Casey doesn't mention Tracey at all during that scene yet Misty's demeanor changes radically and her blush becomes far more intense than the half-hearted one she let out earlier that episode. Keep in mind that this blush occurs before Psyduck even appears. From that, we can tell that she doesn't like Tracey and there's someone else out there that she feels for.


I'm still not buying Daisy would imagine her younger sister with a guy she liked so she could use them for her benefit. I don't see why her imagining herself, blushing, or something like that wasn't included. I fail to see why she didn't at least imagine herself first for a couple of seconds.Like Meowth Fantasies, Daisy's fantasy was there for humor. My interpretation of the scene indicated to me that Misty repeatedly showed that she doesn't like Tracey in a romantic way. Albeit people continually assume they're a couple which is quite ironic if the viewer had past knowledge of Misty's adventures in Kanto, Orange, and Johto. There's also some indication of irony extant in Daisy's fantasy. Although Daisy could assume that Misty and Tracey would make a nice couple, there may exist contrary evidence that Daisy may instead be falling for Tracey.

INQUISITION: I keep on trying to understand why the producers and director of the Delcatty episode chose to interrupt the narrative from Misty and Georgio's battle, just to show Daisy and Tracey looking at a leaky pipe. Could anybody explain the importance that scene had? It just came out of... Nowhere... :\

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/Swifti/0233.jpg

cold_katanagirl
20th December 2005, 11:54 PM
It seemed like she was more annoyed that people try pairing her up with Tracey rather than being embarassed about liking him.I was thinking about that too actually, but it's not like she got like that when Daisy put them together in the play.

Oh ya. I'd like to point out I don't really think either is going to happen... They both seem sorta vague to me. But if one of them were to happen, I'd go with Orangeshipping. Yup.

Anyway though.
If that accusation was supposed to be supportive of OrangeShipping, then the episode would have affirmed our suspicions by the second time Casey asks Misty if "There's someone else." However, Casey doesn't mention Tracey at all during that scene yet Misty's demeanor changes radically and her blush becomes far more intense than the half-hearted one she let out earlier that episode. Keep in mind that this blush occurs before Psyduck even appears. From that, we can tell that she doesn't like Tracey and there's someone else out there that she feels for.If the writers were just going to go ahead and kill the ship and go with her liking someone else, then I think it would have made more sense to have only Sakura accuse Misty and Tracey and liking each other in the beginning of the Hoso and have a flat denial and just leave it at that. They don't have to drill it into our heads three times Misty likes someone else.

It could be possible the whole thing is a running gag though, but the humor seems sort of dry. =/


Like Meowth Fantasies, Daisy's fantasy was there for humor.I don't find it all that hilarious...
My interpretation of the scene indicated to me that Misty repeated showed that she doesn't like Tracey in a romantic way.The reaction was indeed dry and all, but it's no hint for Handymanshipping either.
Albeit people continually assume they're a couple which is quite ironic if the viewer had past knowledge of Misty's adventures in Kanto, Orange, and Johto.Stuff changes.
There's also some indication of irony extant in Daisy's fantasy. Although Daisy could assume that Misty and Tracey would make a nice couple, there may exist contrary evidence that Daisy may instead be falling for Tracey.I never really found the writers to be going for an ironic approach to shipping though. I suppose there's the opportunity she may start liking him in the future, but right now they're not showing it.
INQUISITION: I keep on trying to understand why the producers and director of the Delcatty episode chose to interrupt the narrative from Misty and Georgio's battle, just to show Daisy and Tracey look at a leaky pipe. Could anybody explain the importance that scene had? It just came out of... Nowhere...Know the dialogue?

I reeeeeally need to get around to watching these.

Swifty
21st December 2005, 12:11 AM
Oh ya. I'd like to point out I don't really think either is going to happen... They both seem sorta vague to me. But if one of them were to happen, I'd go with Orangeshipping. Yup.Agreed. However, I'm going to go the other way around. If one of them were to happen, I'd go with HandymanShipping based on the Daisy-Tracey interactions I've seen in the Delcatty and Luvdisc episodes.

Alfonso
21st December 2005, 12:33 AM
Agreed. However, I'm going to go the other way around. If one of them were to happen, I'd go with HandymanShipping based on the Daisy-Tracey interactions I've seen in the Delcatty and Luvdisc episodes.

The interaction in the Luvdisc episode? There was hardly anything remotely shippy going on between Daisy and Tracey there. Unless you mean Daisy having a fantasy about her younger sister with the guy she's supposed to like.

Sorry, but you just don't do that if you like a guy.

Jo-Jo
21st December 2005, 1:47 AM
I can potentially see anti-shippiness in the Luvdisc episode. Because the writers include this whole elaborate, over-the-top fantasy sequence of Misty/Tracey - and then immediately have the REAL Misty and Tracey dismissing the whole thing as completely silly (does anyone know the dialogue for that scene?). They could have meant it as irony, or a spoof on the shipper factions in the fandom. Eh, food for thought.

For the record, I do consider Orangeshipping more likely than Handymanshipping, but I'm sort of on the fence now between Orangeshipping and... not-Orangeshipping. So I'll be cheering for both sides from now on. :D

Magus
22nd December 2005, 5:11 AM
I can potentially see anti-shippiness in the Luvdisc episode. Because the writers include this whole, elaborate, over-the-top fantasy sequence of Misty/Tracey - and then immediately have the REAL Misty and Tracey dismissing the whole thing as completely silly (does anyone know the dialogue for that scene?). They could have meant it as irony, or a spoof on the shipper factions in the fandom. Eh, food for thought.
I agree with that. If the writers were aiming for a romantic hint, they could've had Misty and Tracey dismissing it a more vehement, embarassed way. Some overt blushing and anger on Misty's part, like what happened whenever somebody suggested that Ash was her boyfriend (aka exactly the reaction we don't see when somebody asks if Tracey is her boyfriend). Since nothing of the sort happened, it doesn't seem very likely that the scene was meant to suggest Orangeshipping as a serious possibility.

Beyond that scene, the fact that Daisy went out of her way to show off her new Luvdisc to Tracey, when she hadn't even told her sisters about it yet, seems like a more meaningful hint. Yes, Tracey will always be excited to see a new Pokémon, but why is impressing him (with a Pokémon directly tied to love, at that) important to Daisy? She also specifically calls Tracey "cute" and seems rather interested in the prospect of seeing him in tights.
On Tracey's side of things, he's remarkably tolerant when Daisy displays her diva-ish behavior. Sure, he's a nice guy, but that nice? He didn't even seem vaguely annoyed, for example, when Daisy had him inflate the rubber boat by himself, and reacted as if her rationale were the most reasonable thing in the world (which it wasn't :p).

cold_katanagirl
22nd December 2005, 9:40 PM
I can potentially see anti-shippiness in the Luvdisc episode. Because the writers include this whole, elaborate, over-the-top fantasy sequence of Misty/Tracey - and then immediately have the REAL Misty and Tracey dismissing the whole thing as completely silly (does anyone know the dialogue for that scene?). They could have meant it as irony, or a spoof on the shipper factions in the fandom. Eh, food for thought.

For the record, I do consider Orangeshipping more likely than Handymanshipping, but I'm sort of on the fence now between Orangeshipping and... not-Orangeshipping. So I'll be cheering for both sides from now on. :DI agree with both points. I'm so original. I see anti-shippiness for both ships in the episode though.
Beyond that scene, the fact that Daisy went out of her way to show off her new Luvdisc to Tracey, when she hadn't even told her sisters about it yet, seems like a more meaningful hint. Yes, Tracey will always be excited to see a new Pokémon, but why is impressing him (with a Pokémon directly tied to love, at that) important to Daisy?Judging by what the Serebii guide, Daisy seemed more interested in the play than just showing Tracey the pokemon.
She also specifically calls Tracey "cute" and seems rather interested in the prospect of seeing him in tights.Does anyone have the dialogue to this part? Anybody? Someone? D:

On Tracey's side of things, he's remarkably tolerant when Daisy displays her diva-ish behavior. Sure, he's a nice guy, but that nice? He didn't even seem vaguely annoyed, for example, when Daisy had him inflate the rubber boat by himself, and reacted as if her rationale were the most reasonable thing in the world (which it wasn't :p).On the whole, Tracey seems like a really nice guy. Another example of this niceness is the Azurill thing.

Tracey gave me the impression of someone who would kind of do whatever a girl told him to do. And then one day he would snap completely. =0

Magus
23rd December 2005, 2:37 AM
Inviting over a guy with no acting background and no apparent interest in acting for the sole purpose of asking him to star in a play doesn't make much sense. Daisy might not be the most logical person, but she's a professional actress. Acting is one of the few things she does take seriously. And it couldn't be that she needed a guy for the role and invited Tracey because of that. She's probably met plenty of guys (many of whom are actors or aspiring actors) on the set of the movie she's filming, and beyond that, the play was originally written to have a woman playing the Prince. My opinion is that having Tracey play the Prince was something Daisy came up with on the spot, because he was there and she thought he was cute. Her stated reason for inviting Tracey was simply to show him the Pokémon, and I don't see any reason to think she was lying.

I also consider it worth noting that, at least in the actual Hoso episodes, Misty has never been the one to invite Tracey to the Gym. If that's happened, no official source has told us. The visits we've actually seen have been either at Professor Oak's instruction or because Daisy invited him.

Magus
23rd December 2005, 2:51 AM
If there's one thing Daisy takes seriously, it's acting. She is after all a professional actress. I don't see her going out of her way to get a non-actor with no apparent interest in becoming an actor to star in a play. My opinion is that asking Tracey to be in the play was something that popped into her head on the spot, because he was there and she thinks he's cute. Her stated reason for inviting him was to show him the Pokémon, and I don't see any reason to think she was lying. So we're back to Daisy being in a big hurry to show off a Luvdisc of all things to a guy she says to his face she thinks is cute.

I also think it's worth noting that, at least in the actual episodes, Misty has never invited Tracey over for a visit. He's gone to the Cerulean Gym because either Oak sent him or Daisy invited him. If Misty ever asked him to come, it was off screen and never mentioned on screen. They get along just fine, but I don't see a canon indication that Misty and Tracey are getting closer than they used to be. On the other hand, Misty doesn't seem to have any problem with inviting herself to visit Ash. :) She knows she's always welcome there.

cold_katanagirl
23rd December 2005, 2:54 AM
Inviting over a guy with no acting background and no apparent interest in acting for the sole purpose of asking him to star in a play doesn't make much sense. Daisy might not be the most logical person, but she's a professional actress. Acting is one of the few things she does take seriously. And it couldn't be that she needed a guy for the role and invited Tracey because of that. She's probably met plenty of guys (many of whom are actors or aspiring actors) on the set of the movie she's filming, and beyond that, the play was originally written to have a woman playing the Prince.Why not use Tracey? The guy is there and he's easy to manipulate.
My opinion is that having Tracey play the Prince was something Daisy came up with on the spot, because he was there and she thought he was cute. Her stated reason for inviting Tracey was simply to show him the Pokémon, and I don't see any reason to think she was lying.How could she have made it up on the spot?

When Daisy first saw Tracey, she runs up to him and calls him "the prince". Daisy says she and Misty caught the Luvdisc to use in the show. After the problem is shown between the two Luvdisc, Misty explains to Tracey that she and Daisy called him up so he could help try and fix it. Daisy then says she needed him there because they needed to get along for the show AND for him (and Misty) to star in the show. And I quote the guide: "Tracey sighs, not being aware that this was part of reason she lured him here". Sounds like Daisy's been thinking of this for awhile.

And all that is going by the Serebii guide by the way.


I also consider it worth noting that, at least in the actual Hoso episodes, Misty has never been the one to invite Tracey to the Gym. If that's happened, no official source has told us. The visits we've actually seen have been either at Professor Oak's instruction or because Daisy invited him.That is a bit of a strike against her.

Daisy seems like the kind of character who would be open about having a crush on someone to me, and inviting him over would be the perfect opportunity to get to know him, but all she does is use him to fix a busted pipe and imagine him with her sister.

Magus
23rd December 2005, 9:35 AM
I'm going by watching the actual episode, not by a guide. Daisy doesn't mention the play until after taking Tracey to the aquarium and showing him the two Luvdiscs. From what she says, she was obviously planning all along to have Misty as the mermaid (which does make sense; the role was created specfically for her), and I get the distinct impression that having Tracey play the Prince was a spur-of-the-moment thing. Not the reason she called him there in the first place.

Also, I think it should be mentioned that neither Tracey nor Misty shows the slightest hint of a blush when they refuse to do the play.

cold_katanagirl
23rd December 2005, 4:42 PM
I'm going by watching the actual episode, not by a guide. Haven't seen the episode. Daisy doesn't mention the play until after taking Tracey to the aquarium and showing him the two Luvdiscs. From what she says, she was obviously planning all along to have Misty as the mermaid (which does make sense; the role was created specfically for her), and I get the distinct impression that having Tracey play the Prince was a spur-of-the-moment thing. Not the reason she called him there in the first place.Haven't seen the episode either, so I'm going by the guide unless someone provides an actual script. D: And going by the guide, Daisy wanting Tracey to be in the play wasn't quite spur of the moment.
Also, I think it should be mentioned that neither Tracey nor Misty shows the slightest hint of a blush when they refuse to do the play.Been over that already.

Kagome Higurashi
24th December 2005, 9:39 PM
Handymanshipping seems more plausible to me. I think the dream was just there for comedy.

Lux
25th December 2005, 7:29 PM
Then show me the handymanshipping hints, other then the pipe scene :/

Hints or sweet/shippish situations:

Handymanshipping
- Dayse says Tracy is nice when he is fixing the pipe.

Orangeshipping
- Sakura and Casey ask if Tracey is Misty's boyfriend - Misty blushes in Casey's time;
- Dayse daydream about a play involving Misty and Tracey as the mermayd and the prince falling in love;
- Tracey gives Misty Azurill, the offspring of his Marill;
- When they reunite with Ash's gang in Oak's lab, Misty and Tracey spends most of time together.

That's what I remember by now... It's not that much, but orangeshipping has indeed more base then handymanshipping.

CyberCubed
25th December 2005, 11:00 PM
I do notice that Handymanshippers tend to only have one episode under their belts, while Orangeshipping has several, including an actual AG episode.

Still, honestly, it can go either way. If the writers have written Misty out of the show permanantly (which is very likely at this point), then Orangeshipping is more plausible, since it gives closure to two main characters. Misty deserves closure, much more than Daisy, so I can see Orangeshipping being more likely.

But eh, there's still not THAT much evidence to be "100%" sure for either side, but I'm leaning toward Orangeshipping for the moment.

Magus
26th December 2005, 12:39 AM
Then show me the handymanshipping hints, other then the pipe scene :/
You still don't acknowledge Daisy being in a hurry to show off her Luvdisc (as the Pok&#233;dex says, "a symbol of love and romance") to Tracey as a hint?


- Sakura and Casey ask if Tracey is Misty's boyfriend - Misty blushes in Casey's time;
Compared to how Misty would react when asked if Ash was her boyfriend, a calm dismissal with a tiny blush is nothing. The blush when she's asked if there's someone she likes romantically later in that Hoso is much bigger, which gives the implication that she's thinking of someone other than Tracey. After all, wouldn't it be more embarassing to be asked about the person you like when that person is right in front of you than when they're on the other side of town?


- Dayse daydream about a play involving Misty and Tracey as the mermayd and the prince falling in love;
It's a play, as envisioned by somebody who's neither Misty nor Tracey. Not a hint of their feelings. At most, it could be seen as indicating that Daisy thinks Misty and Tracey would make a good couple. And the way in which they rejected the idea (no embarassment, no blushing, nothing like this (http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4618/ashmisty5pz.jpg)) IMO puts Orangeshipping firmly into the category of fanon-only ships.


- Tracey gives Misty Azurill, the offspring of his Marill;
Minor hint at best. A Pok&#233;mon is, in most cases, not an inherently romantic gift. If Tracey had given Misty a Luvdisc, it would be different, but there's no reason to assume Azurill is anything more than a gift from one friend to another.


- When they reunite with Ash's gang in Oak's lab, Misty and Tracey spends most of time together.
And do nothing remotely shippy. That episode is basically devoid of any shipping hints, unless you want to stretch the definition of a hint to include two characters standing next to each other.


That's what I remember by now... It's not that much, but orangeshipping has indeed more base then handymanshipping.

Kagome Higurashi
5th January 2006, 4:29 AM
I think the daydream was actually a Handymanshipping hint. It shows how handsome she thinks Tracey is.

cold_katanagirl
5th January 2006, 6:04 AM
I think the daydream was actually a Handymanshipping hint. It shows how handsome she thinks Tracey is.How hansome she thinks he is with her sister...

Magus
5th January 2006, 6:21 AM
The role of the mermaid was created for Misty. Created by Daisy, for that matter. It's only natural that she'd envision Misty playing the role again (and that the writers would want to include a scene of Misty in a costume that's popular with the fans, even if it's just in a character's imagination, but that's another subject :D). Even calling that scene an Orangeshipping meta-hint is tenous IMO.

cold_katanagirl
5th January 2006, 6:30 AM
It sounds shippier for Orange then Handyman to me.

I don't really consider it a hint because their reactions phailed and all. But it being a Handymanshipping hint?

... Am I the only one who's thinking of Hermione/Harry/Cho here?

Magus
5th January 2006, 6:57 AM
Calling the imaginary play scenario a Handymanshipping hint would be a large stretch. I agree with that. Daisy's "cutest prince ever" comment, and her excited "absolutely!" when asked if Tracey would have to wear tights do at least indicate that she finds him attractive, though. Whether that means she wants him as her boyfriend is up in the air, of course.

CyberCubed
5th January 2006, 7:00 AM
The role of the mermaid was created for Misty. Created by Daisy, for that matter.

Um, you do realize the 3 sisters have taken turns playing the Mermaid throughout the first 5 seasons? They've done that play constantly when Misty wasn't around. Daisy could have easily imagined herself being the mermaid but she didn't.

FabuVinny
5th January 2006, 4:24 PM
The mermaid costume hasn't been seen other than the two times Misty wore it. Daisy needed actors and she picked the two people she knew she could convince: The Gym Leader and the admirer. And they still wouldn't do it...

So who else sees Tracey as a Prince Charming?

CyberCubed
5th January 2006, 4:59 PM
The mermaid costume hasn't been seen other than the two times Misty wore it.

I beg to differ:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/MayHaruka/S333.jpg

See Violet? She's the mermaid. See Lily? She's playing the prince.

The Mermaid role was NOT made just for Misty. Her sisters were performing the play and taking turns playing the mermaid while Misty was traveling.

(On another note I wonder if the Mermaid and Prince have to kiss...because like...incest! Although Lily and Violet kissing would be hella hot!)


Daisy needed actors and she picked the two people she knew she could convince: The Gym Leader and the admirer. And they still wouldn't do it...

Yet Daisy could have been the mermaid herself and gotten romantic with Tracey in a play, yet she didn't do it either.

PokeProphet
5th January 2006, 7:27 PM
Then show me the handymanshipping hints, other then the pipe scene :/
Okay:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Burningpassion2/Handymanshipping.jpg
As you can see, no longer the pipe seen. Not to mention that they both seem to be standing very, very close to each other indeed, and they both don't seem to mind this invasion of their own private space. And the wrench, oh Lord the wrench. That wrench just said it all. I always guessed Tracey had a big tool, but grabbing it in public while looking at Daisy like that....oh Lord. 8D Freudians would kill for this.

And where did the "No they cant be with each ohter cos one is tallr then tha other"-argument, that was used to many times against Pokeshipping, suddenly go? Daisy and Tracey seem much more of the same height then Tracey and Misty do. So what is it, Orangeshippers? Are characters that have the same hight more plausible together (argument against Orangeshipping) or arent't they?


- Dayse says Tracy is nice when he is fixing the pipe.
Sure took their sweet time. Wonder what else Tracey was fixing. ;)


- Sakura and Casey ask if Tracey is Misty's boyfriend - Misty blushes in Casey's time;
'xcuse me, but have you ever actually seen that blush? It is the most pathetic excuse for a blush on this side of the galaxy. In fact, it could easily have been a pimple. And people can blush out of embarrasment too.


- Tracey gives Misty Azurill, the offspring of his Marill;
If giving away a Pokemon to someone else is undeniable proof that you love that someone else, that means that Ash is in love with some guy from the dojo (Primeape), a pink butterfree (since he gave his Butterfree away so it could be with her), Officer Jenny (Squirtle), that chick from the Charizard Valley, Mother Lapras, and I don't know who else. Get the point?


- When they reunite with Ash's gang in Oak's lab, Misty and Tracey spends most of time together.
Do they now? I seem to recall Misty travelling with the gang for a couple of days while Tracey stays at Oak. And at Oak, the gang (all of them) seem to spend most time together.


That's what I remember by now... It's not that much, but orangeshipping has indeed more base then handymanshipping.
No. Both have no base. Orangeshipping is simply a part of the Advanceshipping safe-cirkle, as Handymanshipping is a part of the Pokeshipping safe-cirkle. Ships few would really care about, but since they counter something that the supporters of the big ships see as dangerous, they're made to be a big deal with loads of hints. They aren't. Both of them aren't.

And finally,

- Dayse daydream about a play involving Misty and Tracey as the mermayd and the prince falling in love;
Okay.

I make it my business to generally be nice to other shippers, and once again I like to emphasize that everyone has the right to like the ships that he or she likes. No matter what characters involving she ship. Personal preference is something nobody can be blaimed for. De gustibus non disputandum.

But I think it's time, once and for all, that the content of the "Daisy imagined Tracey and Misty in a romantic play together"-'hint' gets a proper analisation. Or rather, funeral.

-Daisy imagines Misty and Tracey together in a play. A play. As in acted. By actors. Fiction. Made up. A story. Not real.


play ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pl)
v. played, play·ing, plays
v. intr.
To act, especially in a dramatic production.
Music.
To be performed, as in a theater or on television: A good movie is playing tonight.


- If Daisy really thinks that Misty and Tracey are a good couple, why does she never say it, like she did with Ash and Misty? Daisy tends not to be so subltle.

- Even if she thinks that Misty and Tracey are a good couple, and if that truely is the reason she's thinking of putting them together in the play, why would she be right? Who made Daisy an expert on love?

- Does me imagining Queen Elizabeth and George Bush as a couple, in some magical way, make it happen? No. Does me pairing up CKG with RiptideDragon somehow make it happen? No. Does any third person thinking two other persons will make a cute couple make it happen? No. It doesn't matter what the third person thinks. What matters is what the two people think.

- Even though it was just a play, as in acted, by actors, Misty and Tracey refuse it. Misty had a face like "bleh, never!" and Tracey just says that he and Misty are just friends. What more proof do you need? They refused to be a couple, even if it was just for the play! Daisy got the hint. And it's time Orangeshippers using this hint get the hint too.

- Suppose Misty and Tracey are just denying because they're secretly in love. Why turn down the play? Why refuse? They would have had the perfect opportunity to get all close to each other and maybe even kiss, and nobody would think much of it, because everybody knows that it is just a play, as in acted, by actors, who are pretending. Let me put it this way: If you had a secret crush on someone, and had a chance to act a couple in a romantic play with him/her, would you refuse?

- Finally. The play comes. The two Luvdisc kiss. Doing some move that makes all, the couples, and I mean ALL the couples, present at the show, to hold hands and make their eyes turn into hearts (which I imagine hurts like hell, but that's something else). And Misty and Tracey. They stand on the side. Closer to the stage then the audience is. Practically have their noses pressing against the glass. And?
And absolutely nothing, that's what. No hearts, no holding hands, no embrace, they didn't even look at each other. Not even a tiny peek, that would signify that on this very romantic moment, they have the slightest intention of actually making it a romantic moment for the both of them. Hell, if one of them would have had a heart-attack right there at that moment, the other one would've probably not even have noticed it.

Thus includes my rant about the play. And don't bring that "You're being mean" or "Stop being a militant"-cr*p. Like I said, you are welcome to like every ship you want, as far as I am concerned. And you don't need hints for it. As long as you don't make up hints by ripping things out of context.

intergalactic platypus
5th January 2006, 8:04 PM
Okay:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Burningpassion2/Handymanshipping.jpg
As you can see, no longer the pipe seen. Not to mention that they both seem to be standing very, very close to each other indeed, and they both don't seem to mind this invasion of their own private space. And the wrench, oh Lord the wrench. That wrench just said it all. I always guessed Tracey had a big tool, but grabbing it in public while looking at Daisy like that....oh Lord. 8D Freudians would kill for this.
No. Both have no base. Orangeshipping is simply a part of the Advanceshipping safe-cirkle, as Handymanshipping is a part of the Pokeshipping safe-cirkle. Ships few would really care about, but since they counter something that the supporters of the big ships see as dangerous, they're made to be a big deal with loads of hints. They aren't. Both of them aren't.

Strong objection to both points. The first is reading FAR FAR too deeply into it. This is friggin pokemon we're talking about. Tracey holding a wrench while looking at Daisy isn't a hint on a show that has few shipping hints in the first place, and tends to try and make them obvious. Freudian moments gripping tools is not part of pokemon shipping. The second point is invalid because I'm an orangeshipper who passionately hates advanceshipping, so I'm not using it as a "safe-circle" to protect Ash and May. If anything, I would want a ship that makes advanceshipping completely impossible in canon. I also like pokeshipping, so I'm not using it to kill AAML. Get both of the facts straight

cold_katanagirl
5th January 2006, 10:35 PM
As you can see, no longer the pipe seen. Not to mention that they both seem to be standing very, very close to each other indeed, and they both don't seem to mind this invasion of their own private space.You can't seriously think standing close to each other is a hint.

WOO ADVANCESHIPPING IS CANON!
And the wrench, oh Lord the wrench. That wrench just said it all. I always guessed Tracey had a big tool, but grabbing it in public while looking at Daisy like that....oh Lord. 8D Freudians would kill for this.Been hanging out with CC eh? :p
And where did the "No they cant be with each ohter cos one is tallr then tha other"-argument, that was used to many times against Pokeshipping, suddenly go? Daisy and Tracey seem much more of the same height then Tracey and Misty do. So what is it, Orangeshippers? Are characters that have the same hight more plausible together (argument against Orangeshipping) or arent't they?I've never heard an anti-Handymanshipper to use that argument. o_o

The two fixed a pipe and all, but where's the shippy connotation? The wrench doesn't cut it. =/
'xcuse me, but have you ever actually seen that blush? It is the most pathetic excuse for a blush on this side of the galaxy. In fact, it could easily have been a pimple. And people can blush out of embarrasment too.It's still not consistent with the other times things like this have happened though.

By the way, I don't consider the Azurill thing a hint. It's just a nice gesture imo. Pretty cool he didn't give it to Oak or Daisy though. (j/k)
Do they now? I seem to recall Misty travelling with the gang for a couple of days while Tracey stays at Oak. And at Oak, the gang (all of them) seem to spend most time together.I think they're talking about that day when the gang is at the lab. Misty hung out with Tracey and Max, Ash hung around with May (from what I heard anyway). It's not like anything shippy happened though, people just consider it funny she hung out with Tracey and Max instead of other people.

In the next couple episodes, Tracey doesn't even go.
No. Both have no base. Orangeshipping is simply a part of the Advanceshipping safe-cirkle, as Handymanshipping is a part of the Pokeshipping safe-cirkle. Ships few would really care about, but since they counter something that the supporters of the big ships see as dangerous, they're made to be a big deal with loads of hints. They aren't. Both of them aren't.Agreed.
-Daisy imagines Misty and Tracey together in a play. A play. As in acted. By actors. Fiction. Made up. A story. Not real.How many people willingly imagine their sister with others and get happy about it? I don't think it's a hint for Orangeshipping at all, and I don't necessarily think Daisy thinks they're a good couple.

But come on. If Daisy thinks Tracey is smokinghot!Tracey, then I fail to see the reason why she didn't imagine herself, as fake as the play is.

Hermione/Harry/Cho syndrome!

And about the Luvdisc using Attract, am I the only one who sees this used an the anti-Orangeshipping argument? As far as I'm concerned, it's anti-shipping for all the ships involving the three characters.

PokeProphet
6th January 2006, 12:04 AM
Strong objection to both points.
Oh my! Not even normal objection, but STRONG objection.


The first is reading FAR FAR too deeply into it. This is friggin pokemon we're talking about. Tracey holding a wrench while looking at Daisy isn't a hint on a show that has few shipping hints in the first place, and tends to try and make them obvious. Freudian moments gripping tools is not part of pokemon shipping.
Ever heard of the term 'sarcasm'? If you took the time to read my entire post, instead of just little parts, you would have noticed this;

No. Both have no base. Orangeshipping is simply a part of the Advanceshipping safe-cirkle, as Handymanshipping is a part of the Pokeshipping safe-cirkle. Ships few would really care about, but since they counter something that the supporters of the big ships see as dangerous, they're made to be a big deal with loads of hints. They aren't. Both of them aren't.

Now why do I say this when I just posted a Handymanshipping hint? Because I was being sarcastic. And because if some people are going to interpret the wild imagination of Daisy as an Orangeshipping hint, I might as well use my imagination and transform this into a Handymanshipping hint.


The second point is invalid because I'm an orangeshipper who passionately hates advanceshipping, so I'm not using it as a "safe-circle" to protect Ash and May. If anything, I would want a ship that makes advanceshipping completely impossible in canon. I also like pokeshipping, so I'm not using it to kill AAML.
Are you familiar with the term 'single case-evidence'?



Nah, smoking isn't bad for you. My grandfather smoked too, and he was ninty-five years old when he died.

This is what people call single case-evidence. Denying a general fact, because a little bit of personal experience biases them to believe it is not true. You're an Orangeshipper and a Pokeshipper at the same time? Good for you, but it says nothing about the general connection between Orangeshipping and Advanceshipping. If you'd be able to calculate the correlation between supporting Orangeshipping and supporting Advanceshipping, or the cluster Pokeshipping-Contastshipping-Handymanshipping, you'd easily make it to .7 and probably to .9. The fact that there are a few exceptions to this rule, who support contradictory shippings and thereby break their own safe-circle, does not change this.


Get both of the facts straight
Straightened them. Happy?


You can't seriously think standing close to each other is a hint.
I don't. But like I said, if people are going irrational and start to see every minor thing as a hint for the ships they support, I can do that too.


The two fixed a pipe and all, but where's the shippy connotation? The wrench doesn't cut it. =/
Maybe I've just been watching to many late-night shows where the plumber drops in for a visit when the hot blond woman in her underwear is at home all alone 8). But like I said, the only reason I'm making up Handymanshipping hints is because other people are making up Orangeshipping hints.


It's still not consistent with the other times things like this have happened though.

It could be. The blush may be there, but if you compare it to other blushing moments, you see her facial expression and her affective reaction is different.


It's not like anything shippy happened though, people just consider it funny she hung out with Tracey and Max instead of other people.
I know, and I don't have a problem with people thinking it's funny. I have trouble with people considering it an Orangeshipping hint.


But come on. If Daisy thinks Tracey is smokinghot!Tracey, then I fail to see the reason why she didn't imagine herself, as fake as the play is.
Well, personally I think the whole thing would have changed if Daisy would have imagined herself with Tracey, while Tracey is sitting right next to her. But that might be my bias talking.


And about the Luvdisc using Attract, am I the only one who sees this used an the anti-Orangeshipping argument?
Well, it kinda depends. Do you happen to know whether attract works on everybody in love, or just to couples who are physically close to each other? If the first is true, then like you say this is probably and overal anti-shipping hint.

intergalactic platypus
6th January 2006, 1:53 AM
I think your overreacting a bit to the points I was trying to make. Theres no need to seem as angry as you did. I was just trying to point something out. I can see where your coming from with the safe circle thing, I was just producing an example of someone like myself who hates advanceshipping and supports orangeshipping. And with your gripping of the tool thing, it could have easily been interpreted as you trying to make a serious point, because I've seen shippers use worse arguments

cold_katanagirl
6th January 2006, 3:25 AM
But like I said, the only reason I'm making up Handymanshipping hints is because other people are making up Orangeshipping hints.I can see why you're annoyed and all, but it's not really going to help in the long run. Two wrongs don't make a right after all.
It could be. The blush may be there, but if you compare it to other blushing moments, you see her facial expression and her affective reaction is different.It's not really the small blush that I find odd, it's that she seems more annoyed when Tracey is around. That doesn't make alot of sense to me.

Supposing she was just embarrassed, shouldn't she be more embarrassed if Tracey hears it too? But when both of them hear it by Sakura, their reaction phails.
Well, personally I think the whole thing would have changed if Daisy would have imagined herself with Tracey, while Tracey is sitting right next to her. But that might be my bias talking.Daisy (along with Lily and Violet) always seemed like she would be open about a guy she liked. That may just be me though.
Well, it kinda depends. Do you happen to know whether attract works on everybody in love, or just to couples who are physically close to each other? If the first is true, then like you say this is probably and overal anti-shipping hint.Not really sure. I think it really only works when two people are in love.