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RaZoR LeAf
23rd December 2005, 1:06 AM
So, what re the worst clichés when it comes to fanfiction? Of any kind. I'm trying to write a humour fic that goes totally overboard with the cliché and even breaks the forum rules, without really breaking them.

Things I have so far is an inept evil team, trainers that get super strong pokemon within the first moments of starting out, plots to take over the world and legendaries being used as the key to evil victory. I also intend to break the 4th wall a lot

Generally I'd like opinions on the clichés you know of, as well as what sort of things make you laugh when it comes to irony and plain randomness.

+Chaos Blade+
23rd December 2005, 1:14 AM
First of all, to make it extremely random - make the Pokémon talk, of course, and insert Mary-Sues and Gary-Stus! Make it a script fic if possible, and also, most importantly, use little to none description as well as random Legendaries appear out of thin air - one godly.

Insert the PokéGods - you know what I mean of those. Make one character completely stupid. The main character extraordinarily smart - oddly. Also, just put down any stupid thing you talk with your little friend, Mr. Jack Daniels, on paper. *picks up phone* Hey, Jack, how ya doin'?

Eternal Daydreamer
23rd December 2005, 1:23 AM
I would also add lots of romance. I mean, love at first site romance! Not dating. Plus add a lot of super powers. Maybe even add reviewers into it!

Zerodius
23rd December 2005, 1:40 AM
"Hello, mister Pokemon trainer." stated a random Legendary Pokemon. "A random evil Team tries to take over the world and since the authorities do strictly nothing because of a plothole, we shall fusion with you or become your Pokemon? Why? Because it would be too simple for us to simply teleport to their base and blast them to kingdom come, thus killing the point of your awful plothole-ridden fanfic/RPG."

...

Let's not forget about:

"I have every single specie of Pokemon in my party EXCEPT the starters, Eevee, Growlithe, Vulpix, Pikachu, and all other Pokemon like those because that they sheer, raw, pure overused evil!"

...

Now for another one...

"Hi there, immature, unexperienced, beginner Pokemon trainer!" said a random Legendary Pokemon or the local Champion. "You know, we, Legendary Pokemon and Elite Four members, could save the world right now easily... but we shall not do so. Unstead, we shall entrust you, a random beginner trainer, with the task to do so despite the fact that you are absolutely inept at being a Pokemon trainer."

...

Yet another one (wow! I'm creative tonight!... or something like that.):

"I'M LATE! I'M LATE!... huh? You wonder where I'm going and why I'm late? Well... I'm the fic's hero and thus, I MUST be late to get my first Pokemon! Now, if you could excuse me... I must hurry, because I'm late!"

...

Again! Again!

"The world has been destroyed because that "peace cannot be eternal". Humanity and all of the Pokemon, including the Legendary ones and especially them, overused morons who comitted the awful crime of being stronger than the others and having a backstory. Now, the world is reborn and we must go to the tower in the center of the world because... well because. Oh, and don't forget about the wolf Pokemon hybrids living on the wolf continent, in the wolf country, in the city of the wolf. Also, did I mentionned that the new Legendary Pokemon were at the number of twelve, are total zodiac monsters knock-offs, and have less than one line of personality and story each?"

...

More! More!

"I'm an angsty ex-criminal who can't let go of my past. For some reason, even the highest-ranked admins Team Rocket, Aqua, Magma, Snagem, and Cypher are all on my back despite the fact that I'm just a common, stupid grunt. Now, unstead of trying to live a straight life, I will dive back into the world of criminals so that I can get even with those evil dudes and also go on petty vendettas and other stuff."

...

"Humanity and Pokemon are at war because that humans are EB1L!!111!!! Watch as so-called heroic Pokemon slaughter millions of humans that have gone beserk for absolutely no good reason while the Pokemon, for absolutely no reason, are all now knights in shining armor. Watch as the Legendary Pokemon cheer for the Pokemon unstead of bringing back order, as they should."

Well... that's that... for now.

Kiyohime
23rd December 2005, 1:42 AM
Have the trainers be able to understand everything their trainers say. XP Have the Pokemon suddenly love their trainers and obey them without complaint, even if it means hurling themselves off a cliff. XD There's also Pokehybrids, Pokemorphs, legendaries that deem the trainer as the "chosen" and so on.

EDIT: Zerodius, thanks for taking spiteful stabs at our End Tower project and using a direct quote and example from the preview. Much frelling appreciated. --; What the hell is your problem? I'm fine with you taking stabs at it because it's a cliche, but please don't ACTUALLY use it as a direct example just because you hate it so much...because it isn't very polite.

Carpetted!
23rd December 2005, 1:52 AM
"It was all just a dream" XD

Zerodius
23rd December 2005, 1:55 AM
Well, I do see the "Giovanni uses Mewtwo to take over the world" idea a bit too much... but not anymore. Maybe people understood that the first movie is already there and that there's no need for re-tells of it?

As for your comment... well... I didn't tought it was a direct quote from your fic. I simply tried to word it out in a funny, ironic way... and well, since it seems my rant ended up as a exact quote from your fic... then my suggestion is: You REALLY need a revision... or better, please get some original ideas in there, please.

As for rape... well, thankfully, the rape invasion is not found on this site... but I've seen some sites filled with far too many awful, awful pokerape stories. Enough to disgust you of Pokemon for life, I tell you.

Now... more cliches! YAY!

...

"DUH! I'm uber stupid because that I am the hero of a parody/humor fic and that the author, not having any imagination, can't think of a way to introduce the Funn3Y in the fic without turning me into a moron!"

...

Yet one more!

"I am a strategic and tactical genious. Despite having all the odds against me, I shall still prevail. Also, I will smile, I will love, I will be sad... but never, NEVER will I laugh for I am the hero of a serious fic. Also, I am a Gary Stu/Mary Sue with tons of ridiculous flaws added to hide my perfection."

...

Another one...

"I am ugly, disliked by everyone, clumsy, and all those bad things because that if I am not a totally worthless character, then I shall be considered a Mary Sue. Heck, I got called a Mary Sue for defeating that Caterpie on my first try with my Cyndaquil. Sniff... no one loves me."

Kiyohime
23rd December 2005, 2:02 AM
XD That last one cracked me up, because I've seen that so many times it isn't funny. There's also "Big Bad Tough Boy in Leather Jacket Who Has a Problem Against Auhority and Has a Charizard." Those make me gag.

PDL
23rd December 2005, 2:04 AM
don't forget the unbelieveably angst-ridden teen... or the sexually abused teen girl...

also the kidnapped 12 year old girl who was genetically spliced with a cute pokemon like Pikachu or Vulpix

Kiyohime
23rd December 2005, 2:09 AM
OR! The Fire Pokemon that can't breathe fire until it magically can in an emergency situation that requires Deus Ex Machina.

PDL
23rd December 2005, 2:10 AM
evil scienists, loads and loads of evil scienists that conduct bizzare experiments

oh, and digimon crossovers

Kiyohime
23rd December 2005, 2:11 AM
Digimon crossovers are cliche? o.o;; Why?

Yami Ryu
23rd December 2005, 2:11 AM
"Humanity and Pokemon are at war because that humans are EB1L!!111!!! Watch as so-called heroic Pokemon slaughter millions of humans that have gone beserk for absolutely no good reason while the Pokemon, for absolutely no reason, are all now knights in shining armor. Watch as the Legendary Pokemon cheer for the Pokemon unstead of bringing back order, as they should."

And thanks for bashing a Mewtwo story I have in the works and was thinking about bringing back. You know there tends to be a plot behind fanfictions like that, and while I admit that Dan made a good point in making this thread, for cliche stuff, if it has a plot and is well written, cliche can be pulled off nicely. All you're doing is bashing ideas. Jesus, get a life Zerodius. You're 'humor' is cliche too -_-


Yet one more!

"I am a strategic and tactical genious. Despite having all the odds against me, I shall still prevail. Also, I will smile, I will love, I will be sad... but never, NEVER will I laugh for I am the hero of a serious fic. Also, I am a Gary Stu/Mary Sue with tons of ridiculous flaws added to hide my perfection."

... you know what you're trying to mock there, isn't a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, but probably an Anti Hero, or an Angst Sue, and if you noticed most sues and stu's don't have flaws of any kind, even character quirks or little things lime clumsiness. So probably what you mistook for a Mary/Angst Sue was an Anti Hero.


More! More!

"I'm an angsty ex-criminal who can't let go of my past. For some reason, even the highest-ranked admins Team Rocket, Aqua, Magma, Snagem, and Cypher are all on my back despite the fact that I'm just a common, stupid grunt. Now, unstead of trying to live a straight life, I will dive back into the world of criminals so that I can get even with those evil dudes and also go on petty vendettas and other stuff."

O.o actually that sounds like Colosseum, and I haven't seen many fics like that. And I do not understand what would be wrong with the fics you listed, or rather, the cliche's, with a bit of plot tweaking and etc, they could be pulled off. Dan said the worst, half of those you listed off are not bad.

But guess it's a matter of opinion so I shall list my own;

Shipping. Most shipping is cliche as hell. Such as Ash and Misty. Mew and Mewtwo. Gary and Ash, etc, etc. I say this because most seem to have the same plot, sex. Or inuendo that it has happened. I am annoyed at this because Shipping can be pulled off without innuendo or sex or even hitting the R raiting (which is hard for me as I like to make my writing works hard core in violence and language and plot). I mean if you look at the shippers forum, you'd see where I'm getting at. Alot of the fics there are basically about being 'R' and nothing more.


As for rape... well, thankfully, the rape invasion is not found on this site... but I've seen some sites filled with far too many awful, awful pokerape stories. Enough to disgust you of Pokemon for life, I tell you.

... I seem to recall you made an angst/rape sue Mew for an RP Lady Myuu made ...

Anyways, not to turn this into a flame topic, but Zerodius, don't list things you think are Cliches and with 'plot summaries' or the bare gists of them. List why you think they are cliche, not what makes them cliche. FOR AS I SAID; even cliched, if it has enough effort and work put into it, can be good in the end.

You are not giving those possible fics a chance at life.

Winged_Wolf
23rd December 2005, 2:13 AM
Ah, here's one:

Not only is our loveable, naive hero late for his first pokemon, but some angty male rival MUST beat him there and choose the fire starter, not to mention the cute girl (that the hero will ultimately fall in love with, of course) that will choose the grass starter. Then, due to the hero's sheer terror of being alone, he must travel with the girl. They fall in love, save the world, and so forth.

Don't we love these? They're particularly overwhelming at FF.net.

Yami Ryu
23rd December 2005, 2:16 AM
Winged_Wolf, O_o that makes me think of the anime

PDL
23rd December 2005, 2:16 AM
Digimon crossovers are cliche? o.o;; Why?

do know how many Digimon/Pokemon crossovers have been done in the past? a lot of them.

actually, crossovers in general rarely work well with each other.

GoGoTenda
23rd December 2005, 2:19 AM
...I'm seriously worried that I may have started a cliched plot. Oh well, I'll just have to make up for the doom and gloom atmosphere by using my own peculiar touch :P

Cliches, cliches...any character even resemblling Ash makes me twitch. That includes being late for the first Pokemon (which may or may not be a Pikachu), and a lot of characters who only dream of being 'the very best' (for reasons unknown). The same goes for flawless Mary Sues. A character CAN'T be perfect; as perfection goes up, then severity of flaws must go up as well.

Throw in a Pikachu that dislikes its trainer, but then learns to love him. Aw...gag-eth me with a spoon-eth.

Winged_Wolf
23rd December 2005, 2:22 AM
Winged_Wolf, O_o that makes me think of the anime

Which is probably why there are so many of them. XD Apparently, anime in word form is the easiest way out of making an original plot. Same thing goes for the games.

Dragonfree
23rd December 2005, 2:37 AM
Don't forget to make the main character the Chosen One who is destined to save the world and bring peace with his extraordinary speshul talents.

Zerodius
23rd December 2005, 2:37 AM
To Renegade: I only pointed out annoying cliches in my opinion. I was absolutely NOT targetting your work.

As for not explaining why it was cliched... did you READ my posts? It was explained in an ironic, funny way. I pointed out how those cliched stories often relied on plotholes and plot devices rather than logic.

A cliche can be pulled off well... but let's just say that cliches such as "humanity is EB1L!!!11!!" or "Mary Sue with random, ridiculous, unrealistic flaws tacked on to mask perfection" are, frankly, just annoying. You can have a character without serious flaws seem good... and a seriously flawed character is not necessarely a deep one, just a flawed one.

Anyway... I will say this: I have no interest in arguing with you.

Thus, end of argument and back to the cliches.

...

"Welcome to an all-new continent. Despite being a new place, all of the "new" Pokemon here are actually just mixes of old Pokemon such as Vulpikachu (Vulpix/Pikachu mix) and Eeveesaur (Eevee/Bulbasaur mix)."

...

"Hi, my name is Angsty Pokemon. I was all angsty and all before being caught by Random Trainer... and the second I got caught, I became a happy-go-lucky Pokebot and I'm now willing to throw myself off a cliff for Random Trainer and will not move even an inch in battle without being ordered to do so. I will also listen to even the most stupid of Random Trainer's orders and marvel in awe before his boring, dull speeches. Also, I like canned Pokemon food a lot despite the fact that back in the wild, I only ate fresh meat with a few herbs on it to reach just that perfect taste that didn't make me want to puke."

...

"My name is Team Rocket Agent Rip-Off. I will follow the hero for the entire story and keep losing non-stop for the sole reason that the story needs fillers between each major event and since the author can't think of decent sub-plots besides making the main hero kiss the female character that tags along."

...

"Hey! I'm the Hero Character! Look at me! Look at my original party! Myself, heroic and smart and stuff, the girl who no matter her personality, will fall in love with me or my rival, and the older guy who takes care of cooking stuff, giving advice, and other useful stuff. This party is so not copied off the anime, isn't it?"

Dilasc
23rd December 2005, 2:41 AM
Man, keep throwing out cliches. All these cliches help me build upon stuff I can use in my plot... for the main characters to hate.

Here's another one. Because it sounds really cool and tough, my rival gotzors teh Ch@rm@nd3r, while I h@ve t3h Bulbax0r. My Bulb@s@0r winz teh match with 3rtq@ke and w1nz0rs!

And another:

Hi, I'm Professor Insert Tree Here. You're just a random shmuck, but I'm so 1337x0r that I gives you all 3 strt3rs!!!111ONE I am the Pwnnnn!!!111ONE111

And another:

So now, our main man is up against a trainer. Look, it's LASS Robert, and he wants to battle, isn't that right, LASS Robert? Lookie! There's gym leader Dirtman, who ironically enough, grew up to become the ground gym leader of Ether City. Wowxx0rs!!! What R teh chanc3s of such a rare sight!

Here's another one:

I'm random n00b author number three. Smilie, smilies, smilie! I gotz t3h leet story! Smilie, smilie, smilie, smilie, smilie, pickle, smilie, smile, hemmorhage, smilie!

Okay here's my story!

Everyone died, THE END!

Hey readers, wait for chapter 2, smilie, smilie. It will have Rumplebutt catch a smilie, and evolve his mother's smilie through his smilie. My story r0xx0rs, I'm gonna givez it 5 stars, smilie, smilie, smilie!!111

Winged_Wolf
23rd December 2005, 2:44 AM
Don't forget to make the main character the Chosen One who is destined to save the world and bring peace with his extraordinary speshul talents.

And the prophecies. "I, the ultra cool Pokemon master, have been destined to save the world because it was written so years ago. Somehow, everyone knows of this prophecy and must try to stop me from fulfilling it. Never mind that I never knew I was 'the chosen one'".

Pinecone Tortoise
23rd December 2005, 2:45 AM
Mmm, possibly fics where the newbie trainer meets up with the incredible canon heroes and is somehow SPESHUL to them (and consequently gets given some OU 00ber or some DEADLY AND DANGEROUS QUEST THAT SHOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN LEFT TO AN EXPERIENCED AND CAPABLE ADULT).

Piney.
;204;;324;

Psychic
23rd December 2005, 2:47 AM
You know, Zerodius, if someone was good enough, then they could actually pull off half those fic ideas. And one of them was practically a future One-Shot idea I have.


Anyways, here are a few really cliché ideas:
-it starts with a perfect, beautiful day
-main character is late and gets a random Pokémon
-starter LOVES it's trainer and likes whatever weird nickname it's given
-BEFRIENDS WILD POKEMON that is sick/hurt/abnormally strong who refuses help, then when healed, is suddenly obediant and LOVES trainer
-new trainer meets boss of Team ____/becomes a member of Team _____ right away
-characters 'fall in love' insanely quickly/one 'falls in love' with another, but other doesn't know, despite all the tell-tale signs
-a stone is found so character can evolve Pokémon at beginning of story
-rival is a hot-headed/angsty male pre/teen
-meets a Legendary early during journey and Legendary insists on joining them for whatever reason
-beginning, 10-year-old trainer has to save the world with weak/Legendary Pokémon


I'm sure I forgot a few, but that's about it. Usually, all the excitement happens at the very beginning of their journey. :P

~Psychic
EDIT: wow, about 5 posts popped up while I was typing mine out. o.O

Dilasc
23rd December 2005, 2:47 AM
How could we forget this one? Seriously, how?

I am daugther of teh crimelord. My father is G30v2n1! I am runz away from him cuz he is teh crime lard! I will run away and stop him and win the league, the championship, the badges, and the <3ses of all my readers! LOVE ME =P

And while I'm at it...

He killed my pimple, I will have REVENGE, cuz nothing bad will happen, right? It's not like I can get hurt.

PDL
23rd December 2005, 2:51 AM
I am daugther of teh crimelord. My father is G30v2n1! I am runz away from him cuz he is teh crime lard! I will run away and stop him and win the league, the championship, the badges, and the <3ses of all my readers! LOVE ME =P

even worse...

I'm the b*stard child of giovanni, and I'm going to take down Team Rocket entirely all by myself!!!11

Shadowcat
23rd December 2005, 2:52 AM
"OH MY BLOODY GOD! I'M STARSHINE AND I HAVE A JIRACHI AS MY STARTER! OMG! I HAVE A LEGENDARY! I CAN EASILY BEAT EVERYBODY! MWAAA HAA HAA!"

That was kinda common in some fics n00bs write... (Sorry for posting that...)

Anywyas, um....?

Lemme see whether I can think anymore up that are clinche. Ah, Hero getting his Starter late.

Winged_Wolf
23rd December 2005, 2:56 AM
I also seem to see a lot of really random, strange names. Foriegn names are cool if they sound okay, but if it gets to, "My name is (insert names with plenty of x's and z's)! It means (insert meaningful term here) in (insert language here)!!!111!!", then it's ridiculous. Add extra n00b points if it sounds elvish or japanese when it's obviously added for t3h l33t factor.

Dilasc
23rd December 2005, 2:57 AM
How about something out of left field... created Pokemon, or worse yet, basically rewrites of the main show with the same damned Pokemon with changed names.

Look! I caught teh Pikachug... it drinks b33r!111

Oh noes, it's Team Sputnik and they're using Hakking, & Snakeeyes! I must send t3m into orbit, and then catch me a Wormtron on my first try, and then go 2 catchzor a Pidjerk before meating a Sumo named teh Sumo and losing to his Sque33z0rz!

BirthdayPirate
23rd December 2005, 6:24 AM
Renegade, you enjoy conflict, don't you?

My favorites:

- No matter what the MC's goal is, the only way they can ever achieve it is by defeating the league. Want to be reunited with your mother? DEFEAT THE LEAGUE! Want to ask Jane to the prom? DEFEAT THE LEAGUE! Want to teach the world to sing? DEFEAT THE LEAGUE!

- No one ever, ever manages to get through the league without interference from some evil force. Besides that, no matter how huge of a conspiracy it is, they A) never call the police and B) are the only ones who know.

- It doesn't matter how many people supposedly completed the league, there are always four rounds in any final tournament. Always.

- Every single one of the top trainers are always either best friends or worst enemies. And under fifteen. For some reasons adults can train Pokemon, but kids are always superior to them.

- Every new trainer is a total genius at some points in the story, and an idiot in others. They don't know their starter's moves, and yet they identify all manner of Pokemon that they meet. And they seem to use their Pokedexes at completely random points, pulling it out for a common Zigzagoon one day and recalling the eating habits of an Absol without it another.

- Every trainer follows the exact same path, and yet they only meet up at certain points. Then, they leave at the exact same time, going in different directions to get to the exact same place, and meet up again days later.

- The distance between every major landmark or city is a day. No variance.

- No one ever listens to music, watches TV, plays video games, or reads. They all seem to be occupied every hour of every day, and have absolutely no time for relaxation.

- One parent or no parents. Apparently humans in the Pokemon world are like grasshoppers; they eat their mates for strength.

- Nevermind that gyms are supposed to be places for local trainers to come and train; it's always just the gym leader by themselves.

I guess that's it for now. Wow, that's pretty long!

Eternal Daydreamer
23rd December 2005, 6:39 AM
How about these?

"E'm a genioz end yet, E hafn't fenizhed meddle skool!"
"E'm dert pore yet, E gett rear PokeBals everi chaptah!"
Bad grammar, cliche and bad spelling. Sad isn't it?

katiekitten
23rd December 2005, 8:42 AM
Oh dear, Phoenix is kinda like one of those cliches... *stuffs story behind back and sidles to one side*

Well, trainer journeys leaving from Pallet Town and following the Anime or games are normally cliches.

...

That's all I can think of. I might be back later. *stuffs story under shirt and flees*

It isn't exactly like one of those cliches... Tala isn't a mary-sue and she isn't all powerful... Not powerful at all... *mumbles into silence, trying to justify the fact that Phoenix is not a cliche*

Dilasc
23rd December 2005, 9:59 AM
Everyone, even I, have forgotten a very common, and barf enducing one.

I lovers my pokeez. With love, my Pikachu (which is definitely a very original choice starter) can vaporize Groudon with a single Thundershock (the way this happens is by Pokemons magik). The powurz? LOVE! Cuz I am the only one capable of loving my Pokemon, ya know. Nobody else can luv their Pokemon as much as me, cuz I'm a sweet, innocent little girl, even though funny badguyz, and unfunny criminal men obviously are incapable of love. Yet this man have had their Rhydon for a zillions centuries worth of training, and it is beated by teh n00b and her's obviously originally chosen Pichu that was just hatched, and of course shiny, and wearing a light ball, and could sing the Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Tanzanian, Thai, Guatemalan, Icelandic, Jamaican and Kazakistani national anthems in twenty major languages, backwards, scrambled, and without the use of its mouth. Yup, just a very plain Pichu!

Elemental Charizam
23rd December 2005, 12:38 PM
peace cannot be eternal
That's only technically wrong...


I am daugther of teh crimelord. My father is G30v2n1! I am runz away from him cuz he is teh crime lard! I will run away and stop him and win the league, the championship, the badges, and the <3ses of all my readers! LOVE ME =P
Hell, though some of these ARE stupid ideas, there are lots of so called cliches here that I've never seen once...

Speaking of that, because its only a matter of time, A BLACK CHARIZARD IS NOT A CLICHE! I've never seen another, somebody is bound to get a differently coloured starter, and the whole plot revolves around it. It isn't a trainer who just happens to have the Charmander, its the Charmander that just happen to have this trainer, KK? RIGHT.

*The geeky girl who just needs to comb her hair, slip into a dress and is suddely a massive beacon for male attention. Instantly, the male(s) in the party love her (how shallow) and spend several filley chapters searching for gifts*

There's one. A cliche that crosses fandoms and genres...

*Has old freind who changed recently and both are now rivals OMG, until they realise they love each other and put aside their differences and get married at, like 14*

There's another, one that I find paticularly loathe to read. Of course, even if they don't fall in love, the first part is still cliched. Genius!

Kiyohime
23rd December 2005, 1:30 PM
No author should be too discouraged by this thread-- if they have confidence and are talented enough, and have enough experience, they can make any cliche work well.

Iveechan
23rd December 2005, 1:46 PM
"Hello, I am the daughter of Ash and Misty"...

Eternal Daydreamer
23rd December 2005, 6:49 PM
Or how about:

"E thenk zat Profezor Oac is Azh's fodder! Harharharharhar!"
A bit of a stab at Eldershipping but I mean, look at how many people think that Professor Oak is Ash's dad! But I think this isn't cliche but just my personal taste.

RaZoR LeAf
23rd December 2005, 9:35 PM
Wow, that.. a lot of clich&#233;s.. Um ok what about bad writing? Not just "oh you suck" but actual bad writing techniques, like starting out with speech instead of setting the scene and stuff like that? Also I'm glad this has been a help for other people.

Nylf
23rd December 2005, 10:24 PM
I find the one nickname, or really cheap ncikname thing kinda cliche. Like calling, *tries to find an example and catches one* A PIKACHU SPARKY! I mean seriously, is it that hard to create something that is less an adjective, more a NAME? And why do trainers always give their Pokemon one name and they keep it? Or why don't they have multiple names and titles like I or II or Sr.? Is it really that hard to create fun or original names? It only took me a minute to create Nylf Schwarz Draconis I and Zel Van Skyfist. And out of curiosity MB, were you referring to MB with that RPG thing? Because generally I covered most plot holes. Lack lusterly I will admit, but covered them.

Eternal Daydreamer
23rd December 2005, 10:53 PM
About names... Sometimes names have a meaning but almost everybody misses. Take Katrina and Hyde for example. Hyde is a Feraligatr who attacked his trainer (Violet). His name came from Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Katrina's wild spirit is perfect because I named her after the character of the same name from Taming of the Shrew. So it depends on what you want names to mean. Others such as Kylee (Pronounced Ky-li) is meaningless. But I get ticked off when they call her Kyle! Add an extra e people! But anyways, Nylf sometimes unoriginality in the names doesn't really matter. It's all about the plot!

GoGoTenda
24th December 2005, 12:25 AM
Razor - Starting off with speech doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad writing style. Maybe frowned upon, but I've done it before. After the character finished speaking, then I described the setting piece by piece throughout the conversation. If it was dialogue without any description at all, then it would be a bad way to write.

Nylf - If the name has a meaning, then there's no reason why it *can't* be simple. My good friend Kawaii Kyuubi Kitsune has a Pichu named 'Chu', but it belongs to a trainer who really would name it Chu. If the name fits the character, then go for it. If you make an overly complex name without a matching character, what's the point?

Lazyitis
24th December 2005, 1:45 AM
God, everything that I've wanted to say has already been done. Oh well.

*Lonely, hated, wretched outcast from 'the real world' ends up in the pokemon world, and becomes friends with Ash and the gang, instead of becoming an even more lonely, hated, wretched outcast thanks to her glaringly substandard social skills in real life - mysteriously, and yet so convieniently papered over. Yeah, sounds perfectly logical.

*Team Rocket's inexhaustible supply of cute pokemon to experiment on equally pretty girls with. Resulting aberrations instantly realise that they've been created for OMG!EVIL! and easily escape (you would have thought that if TR's got the money and resources to capture pokemon and people and experiement on them, then it shouldn't be so hard to invest in top-notch security and to hire non-incompetent guards/henchmen and scientists without morals and ethics - such is the top cause of escaped experiments these day...) to live life as a pokemon trainer.

Or something like that. Because, it's not as if they wouldn't have been instantly lynched/captured/killed the moment they step out into human civilisation. Y'know, because common sense is just an inconvienence for most fic writers these days.

*Rockets being defeated simply by losing a pokemon battle. Because it'd be just too logical if they, being members of a criminal organisation, were to carry actual guns, and y'know, threaten and kill people with them. Alright, so it happens in the game, but still, it's no excuse - especially if we have to read about your sue/stu beating an entire group of them AND foiling the main bad guy's plans, ALL in one go.

With all this trash going about the fandom, I'd be lucky if my upcoming fic actually gets any attention. Sheesh, I post up something in the story ideas topic, and nobody's written anything about it. Oh well, what is there to do?

≈*Virulent Tsunami*≈
24th December 2005, 2:38 AM
I'm going to extend on the nicknames idea:

Hm, how about Blaze the Blaziken? Star the Eevee? Char the Char*word*? Those are probably the three most common names I've ever seen.

Ah, let's not forget that the most powerful legendary in the Milky Way visits the chosen trainer as his/her quest begins. This will consequently inspire him/her to treat his/her Pokémon with even more care.

Oh, and is every emo kid named Spike? Because it certainly seems that way in Fics nowadays.


~*CB*~
The 8th Champion

Meep
24th December 2005, 2:52 AM
How about the one where there are three trainers. The first one picks the grass type, who instantly loves them. The second one picks the water type, who instantly loves them. The third one picks the fire type(it doesn't have to be fire, it can be water or grass too), who is sassy. And because the fire type is sassy, their trainer dislikes them. But is the fire type sassy within reason? No. At any given random moment, the fire type will spit a small amount of fire at its (they are never given genders) trainer. Why? Because the author is too lazy to come up with an actual personallity, instead having the cardboard-cutout spit fire in a lazy attempt of a personallity. However, this syndrome does not affect the pokemon in battle, where they follow their trainer's every command.

All females in fanfiction are either nerds/bookworms (with perfect bodies), bossy/sassy (with a perfect body), all girly-girl (with a perfect body), or fat, old, and ugly (the only one without a perfect body). This one really bugs me out. The only time a female is fat at all is when she "still has some of her baby fat". All females are always falling in love with the hero unless they are fat (even slightly), ugly, old, or in some other way not totally perfect.

PDL
24th December 2005, 3:25 AM
excessive fourth walling: nothing deteriorates a fic faster into random crap for humour then excessive fourth walling

and like I said before, llogical crossovers where the characters from different universes, like say... Sonic the Hedgehog, meet via the convienient demensional rip.

Negrek
24th December 2005, 3:52 AM
Well, most people have said what I'd have liked to say on the topics of clich&#233;s, but to throw out a couple others...

- Fangirl Japanese. Don't do it, people. Having all of your characters referred to as *whatever*-san or *random*-chan is not endearing, nor is it omg cool. Throwing in random words like kawaii is also stupid. Especially if you obviously don't have a clue about Japanese in general and are just doing it because it's teh most awesome language evah.

- Stop the random. If cheese, llamas, penguins, monkeys, and beer were every funny, they are no longer. Sorry. And yes, there are other movies besides Monty Python and the Holy Grail that you can beat to death.

As for poor writing techniques, the first would be infodumping at the beginning. Telling us every little detail about landforms, customs, and the pok&#233;mon found in your region is not attention-getting. It's like reading a geography textbook or something. Boring.

Don't use big words for the sake of big words. Don't describe every little detail of something if it's not necessary to the story. Read over what you've written and make sure it has some sense in there somewhere.

And spellcheck. Please. Netspeak = no-no.

PDL
24th December 2005, 4:14 AM
Stop the random. If cheese, llamas, penguins, monkeys, and beer were every funny, they are no longer. Sorry. And yes, there are other movies besides Monty Python and the Holy Grail that you can beat to death.

there are other movies/TV shows/websites that have been/going to be beaten to death for humour

- Airplane
- Dumb & Dumber
- South Park
- Simpsons
- Family Guy
- Anything from Adult Swim, including Aqua Teen Hunger Force and MSTK3 (which bring me to my next thing...)
- Various Webcomics like 8 bit theater and Penny Arcade
- Homestar Runner (alright, I'm a little guilty of borrowing a few jokes from that site)
- any succuessful internet trend (such as All Your Base and the Star Wars Kid)

anyway, another thing often used in crappy fanfiction is MSTK3ing another fanfic... adding insults and heckles from some kind of internet character watching the fanfic like a bad movie...

Negrek
24th December 2005, 4:41 AM
Oh, but Monty Python's been used the most. It became not-clever to reference in your 'fic approximately five years ago, if not more.

And yes, MSTing other people's stuff in your parody is just bad form and not a parody, either. Neither is a poorly-disguised essay/rant that you're desperately trying to pass off as a parody.

Similarly, just because you may think that what you're parodying is crap/it really is crap/is written like crap does not mean that you write crap to parody it. Stuffing your 'fic full of Mary-Sues, grammatical errors, and 1337 and then calling it a parody because "that's what all the bad 'fics have in them!" does not a parody make. Basically, if you write crap in an attempt to mock crap, it does not make your crap some kind of artistry. It remains crap.

Eternal Daydreamer
24th December 2005, 5:51 AM
there are other movies/TV shows/websites that have been/going to be beaten to death for humour

- Airplane
- Dumb & Dumber
- South Park
- Simpsons
- Family Guy
- Anything from Adult Swim, including Aqua Teen Hunger Force and MSTK3 (which bring me to my next thing...)
- Various Webcomics- any succuessful internet trend (such as All Your Base and the Star Wars Kid)
like 8 bit theater and Penny Arcade
- Homestar Runner (alright, I'm a little guilty of borrowing a few jokes from that site)

I agree. But there are some comedies which still remain funny in my opinion. But at the moment I can only think of one and that is:
Hocus Pocus!
Does anyone remember that Halloween classic comedy? *blank stares* I see not.



Similarly, just because you may think that what you're parodying is crap/it really is crap/is written like crap does not mean that you write crap to parody it. Stuffing your 'fic full of Mary-Sues, grammatical errors, and 1337 and then calling it a parody because "that's what all the bad 'fics have in them!" does not a parody make. Basically, if you write crap in an attempt to mock crap, it does not make your crap some kind of artistry. It remains crap.
Again, true. A true parody is something that is rewriting something but having twists in it. Such as my fic "I Thought you Said it Was Just Hocus Pocus!".

That is true parody. It's paroding the movie Hocus Pocus. And which if I'm not mistaken has not been done before with Pokemon. But that's besides the point. If you are parodying something, make sure it at least has good (by that, it's not perfect but it doesn't make your eyes bleed) grammar and it has good characters.

Iveechan
24th December 2005, 6:37 AM
I remember Hocus Pocus. It's simplisticly enjoyable.

Another cliche is following the beginning of Ruby and Sapphire exactly, and they always insult the poor Machoke who are just doing their job. Being called muscleheads and clumsy, among other things. God. Leave Machoke alone, you ****waffles.

Dilasc
24th December 2005, 6:50 AM
Pokebots in general are cliche. Give your Pokemon personalities, all of them. After all, they're supposed to be living creatures. Pokebots with little to no personality are a huge turn off in my mind.

Eternal Daydreamer
24th December 2005, 7:03 AM
I agree. Even if they are only there for a minute try and give them a personality! And try and make the personalities original too. But sometimes some of the personalities can become really wierd. Like Mace (an Arcanine) pervision with human women's underwear. o.O Don't worry, I'll keep it PG-13 because he just want's to see it..

Nylf
24th December 2005, 1:35 PM
The one problem with discussing cliches is the fact there are often exceptions. On my point, if the trainer themself is meant to be an idiot then a simplistic name supports that. Like GogoTenda and La Carlotta said there can be a reason. But I swear one more Pikachu named Sparky and...let's not go there. Another cliche? The following starters just being given to them because a Professor HAS to:

Eevee
Any starter
A Dragon type

Most people are stopping that(so I used two, mine had reasonable reasons)

And another, the main hero and heroine just HAPPENING to grow up together CNVIENIENTLY(sp?) in the exact village the professor lives in. How hard is it to have your dad give you a lift? Really, how hard? And then always starting at either Pallet, New Bark Town or (dangit! can't remember the other, you know where I mean) for no reason other than they live there? Example of what your average person does in a cliche trainer beginning(it's a summery, not a quote):

Joe Bloggs and Joanne Blogette grew up in Pallet, now there 10 so must go visit Professor Oak/Ketchum and get a Bagon, Eevee, Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle or Pikachu. Joe chooses Eevee and by some bizarre coincidence theres two Eevees so Joanne takes the other. They pull out a convinient Thuner and Water stone and get a Jolteon and Vaporeon. They set off down the same route everyone takes for no good reason. They decide to call Jolteon Yellow and Vaporeon Blue for no good reason. They fall in love and then if it's R-Rated they start making love on a ridiculously regular basis.

And the type I used:

Drake Dragonheart grew up around Lavaridge, and his uncle Professor Birch gave him a Torchic because aforementioned birds trainer was useless, so he figured Drake would be better off with it, that and PB forgot his own nephews birthday till the last minute and all he had was Torchic. His grandpa gave him his Flygon's son which is a Shiny Trapinch. His dad drops him off at (can't remember) because Trapinch and Torchic are too weak for him to start at Lavaridge, and his uncle needs to talk to him. Suila, who as far as we know has no history, get's a Mudkip for reasons best known to herself. PN gives them both exes, and because the Trapinch eats Suila's skateboard mid-battle she is determined to kill Drake.

I'll leave it there. But it's a point. And then is it just me or does every hero or heroine always happen to be convineiently SINGLE? Do these peple have no social lives? And most of the time heroine is hero's first love, and versa-vice. It'd be interesing if these people ACTUALLY had a track record for once. Or they dd the growing up together bit on the other two party members who AREN'T the hero. And could we get some original Pokemon rivalries? Always the starters. Maybe something a little more original, like Flygon and Salamence(it sounds cliche but isn't used enough to be called it), Flygon and Milotic, Mightyena and Houndoom, Aggron and Rhydon and Tyranitar and Dragonite. Is it rally that hard to spot to polar opposites in 300 summit Pokemon instead of always picking the three at the start of the dex.

Negrek
24th December 2005, 5:51 PM
The one problem with discussing cliches is the fact there are often exceptions.
Not often. Always. Clich&#233;s are not always bad. Done well, they can be very interesting and help your story a great deal. However, the truth is that they are used poorly the vast, vast majority of the time, so that if you are not confident in your ability to write them well then they are things to avoid.

Yamato-san
25th December 2005, 5:46 AM
this is something I feel nearly all narratives do.... not just fanfiction, by the way, but actual novels: over-used, and just plain repetitive, description. Take, for instance, a main character having long, dark grey hair that usually billows in the wind behind them. The story will use some metaphor like "it blew behind his/her head like smoke from a volcano" about a million times (several of which being that exact same metaphor getting repeated). Eventually, you'd have to go "OK, we get the friggin point already, his/her hair's dark grey".

Also, this may be an exaggeration, but the following paragraph sounds like it'd be pretty funny.

"The main character passed by a boulder laying nearby on the grass field. This boulder was pretty large, approximately 3 meters tall and 2 in diameter. It was more round than angular, and it was covered in tan-colored dust, some of which slowly blowed off the top. You may be thinking that this boulder's important in some way. Maybe there's a bad guy hiding behind it, or it'll play some huge role later on, but the fact is, it's not. It's just some random boulder, which was merely in the background momentarily, and will most likely never be seen or heard of again. You have just wasted a moment of your life to read about it."

PDL
25th December 2005, 6:27 AM
this is something I feel nearly all narratives do.... not just fanfiction, by the way, but actual novels: over-used, and just plain repetitive, description. Take, for instance, a main character having long, dark grey hair that usually billows in the wind behind them. The story will use some metaphor like "it blew behind his/her head like smoke from a volcano" about a million times (several of which being that exact same metaphor getting repeated). Eventually, you'd have to go "OK, we get the friggin point already, his/her hair's dark grey".

Also, this may be an exaggeration, but the following paragraph sounds like it'd be pretty funny.

"The main character passed by a boulder laying nearby on the grass field. This boulder was pretty large, approximately 3 meters tall and 2 in diameter. It was more round than angular, and it was covered in tan-colored dust, some of which slowly blowed off the top. You may be thinking that this boulder's important in some way. Maybe there's a bad guy hiding behind it, or it'll play some huge role later on, but the fact is, it's not. It's just some random boulder, which was merely in the background momentarily, and will most likely never be seen or heard of again. You have just wasted a moment of your life to read about it."

sometimes that's put because it might be an emphisis to the plot... like say, the guy/girl has an afinity towards volcano smoke for some reason...

but the idea of something described to the exact detail only to never be referenced again is too funny not to be included...

Iveechan
25th December 2005, 8:16 AM
Oh wow... kinda of a cliche but more of an observation. Anyway, I just realized something. How can these people grow up in the Pokemon world and only know of, like, two species ever and the gym leaders are practically unknown? Also, they know nothing of the towns they're traveling to. Do parents shelter their kids all their lives, never let them watch TV or read books, so the children can grow up knowing nothing about Pokemon? Atleast the RS kid had an excuse because he/she just moved to a new region.

cyndaquil_dratini
25th December 2005, 9:45 AM
God, this thread is so popular. I want to read the story the guy who started it is writing. I just read the whole thing- how annoying is it to hear people say 'having legendary pokemon and being late for your pikachu is cliche'. Even the cliches are getting cliche.
I love the ideas that are being thrown around here. Maybe whoevers writing the story could have the really emo violent character (called Spike) describe everything with made up words, or words from some thesaurus, or maybe they carry a thesaurus with them to take out at random moments to describe a place- like "The valley they descended on was spendidly iridescent, and splintiferous speckles of light illuminated the place of (insert scientific word for "place where trees grow" here.) aramonofolously. Or something.
And then have the story have heaps and heaps of completely random plot twists, just coz the author is losing readers- like 'oh, I'm bored of being the Pokemon Master now, I think I'll go be the leader of Team Rocket for a change.' And having every single pokemon be from the third generation or the first twenty pokemon of the first generation- apparently, the pokemon in Gold and Silver didn't exist. I love IceKings parody of caring 'moms' in Whirl Island Quest- maybe you should put a caring mom somewhere in the story too.
Anyways, this thread is really just an imaginitive way to flame people unless you go and read the parody the guy's making. Post the link here somewhere. Maybe I've missed it, because I'm stupid.

Oh! I thought of something else! You could have a parody of those really up-themselves smart-arse reviewers by getting them to pop up in random bad bits in the story and clearly outline every single tiny bit of the story that wasn't exactly like their precious own, and then the main character could counter it by saying something like 'well, here is my list of perfectly good reasons why I can write bad stuff, no honestly, like 'the main character doesn't like describing how people look like, hes not that kind of person'- and 'there ARE explanations for my overuse of legendaries, but it comes LATER in the STORY! GOD! you guys are SO IMPATIENT!'
And every second time the word like is used, make it spelt liek. I'm parodying myself here.

Oh, yeah! One more....the self-conceited college/uni attenting author who should have gotten over pokemon a years and years ago (like me!) who writes over-serious stories about pokemon who live in Hell Itself, or occupy a war-torn country under the reign of some horrible, pistol wielding, spiky-boot wearing moustached dictator, and then randomly insert pokemon references, but dont actually make the story about pokemon at all, and instead make it outline the terrible, dark, fragmented world we all are forced to live in, especially the author themselves. The main character would be named after the author, and have the same life as the author too- and be uniquelly rebellious and dye theur hair blueblack, because they spend too much time on computers and dont have enough friends to keep from being suicidal. Okay, overboard now.

Sachiko
26th December 2005, 10:22 PM
I've got a cliche. It's kind of similar to ones already posted but...
Main Char: A boy who is really nice, very, very much more unique and special than all the minor, side characters, overly enthusiastic and optimistic, and sort of dim- witted at times. In every battle/ fight, he tries but is about to lose, when suddenly, he thinks up an amazingly complex strategy that has a low chance of working but ends up helping him win every time. He and his friends are always finalists in every tournament.
Girl: She tags along with Main Char and is his best friend. MC and Girl like each other but won't say it. Girl is not as skilled as MC but she is unexpectedly tough and stubborn.
Boy: A friend that helps out and supports MC. He is either tough or a complete wimp who unexpectedly shows strength sometimes.

skiboydoggy
26th December 2005, 10:27 PM
To the above post, I can see a highly-obvious Ash-Misty-Brock thing going on there.
-Makes notes-
I happen to be writing a fic where every Pokemon of the main character is named after a god from a different mythos... God that took long.
Hepheastus, Horus, Shiva, Loki, Arhat... And Excalibur because I ran out of mythoses. XD
-Continues making notes-

Anyway, once cliche I can happen to think of is the utterly pointless self-sacrifice a random supporting character makes due to his/her undying love to aforementioned MC often ending in the infamous near-miss and/or ressurection.

Sachiko
27th December 2005, 12:38 AM
Anyway, once cliche I can happen to think of is the utterly pointless self-sacrifice a random supporting character makes due to his/her undying love to aforementioned MC often ending in the infamous near-miss and/or ressurection.

Amen. That one is horribly overused.

RaZoR LeAf
27th December 2005, 1:31 AM
God, this thread is so popular. I want to read the story the guy who started it is writing.

It's here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=99983

Knocked onto page 3 already.

Nylf
27th December 2005, 9:30 PM
Another cliche, when trainers Pokemon do have a past, do they know any other Pokemon other than legendaries?

And the cliche I hate most. The wipe out world uber evil/uber omnipotent(sp? Or even the right word? I think it's about right) utter SNOREFEST of a Ho-oh. It's always "Human kind must be wiped out" or "Until human and pokemon hearts beat as one I'm gone for no better reason than five drunkards assaulted me". Forget that, it's dull and repetitive in fics that follow the games legend. How do we know Ho-oh doesn't have a sense of humour? That he he wasn't in a foul mood, made an oath and is no bored and wants to come back but can't owing to oath? That he DOESN'T hate humanity, just has a little trouble trusting those he doesn't know well? You don't, yet everyone always makes him(I call it him, hate me) some dull god-like figure. Even though he never appears till the end in most good fics, it doesn't mean he can't have a better personality.

MachopGirl
27th December 2005, 11:34 PM
Here's my favorite cliche:

"Oh, I am a weak main character and got beaten by someone!! I better train myself to get stronger." (Son Goku from Dragonball Z, Ryu from Street Fighter)

or

"OMG!! The people I love got killed and I am helpless to stop it!! I must train myself to get stronger and avenge their deaths." (Sasuke Uchiha is one good example of this."

Dilasc
28th December 2005, 12:00 AM
"Oh, I am a weak main character and got beaten by someone!! I better train myself to get stronger." (Son Goku from Dragonball Z, Ryu from Street Fighter)

Ryu is not like that! Dare I say it, he's got an even blander personality. Ryu is more 'I want to better train myself and grow stronger because I like fighting. In order to do this, I must be a loner and travel in search of fights.'

Anyway, now that I have that out of my system, I remember another cliche. Even the suckiest battlers, as long as they are main the character, have 'lots of potential to be the best', likely just because they are the main character. Don't ask me why they have potential to be the best, but they just do. Perhaps its because they're the main character or something, but otherwise, they just have so much potential that it is so secret that not even the Mary Sue writing author knows what it is.

xXSaberXx
28th December 2005, 5:32 AM
Ryu is not like that! Dare I say it, he's got an even blander personality. Ryu is more 'I want to better train myself and grow stronger because I like fighting. In order to do this, I must be a loner and travel in search of fights.'

ROFFLES. Ryu is a poser. >:O


...they are main the character, have 'lots of potential to be the best', likely just because they are the main character. Don't ask me why they have potential to be the best, but they just do. Perhaps its because they're the main character or something, but otherwise, they just have so much potential that it is so secret that not even the Mary Sue writing author knows what it is.


ROFL. That's me. Thank you, thank you. *bows*

No seriously though.

I think a character without talent is just as boring. The difference is, I think, that wether the talent is there to begin with, or just gradually gained. It's all in moderation perspective. It's much more entertaining to watch a character fight through losses and wins and heartbreaks and death and finally blossom into something bigger than watching someone smoke everyone all the time from the start. I plead guilty to doing this of course. D:

I think every author wants to make their characters memorable, and some people just go overboard with it. roffles. Guilty as charged. Again.

But seriously. Greg from Whirl Island Quest. Sahara from Were: Blood and Honey. That girl who ate people from Contaminated Freedom.

All instant classics. Why? Because they grew and changed and people could relate with the change.

Instant classic. Instant love.

The key is moderation.



ON TOPIC:

Lawl.

1. I don't like very disagreeable characters. Like, if they're morbid or something. ALL THE TIME. It gets so annoying. Characters, if not done right, just turn me off. Oh. And one track mind characters or characters that stay the same all the time. That have one personality trait. No growth. It's like they were pumped full of the 1950's. You know what I'm talking about, right? o-o nah. Didn't think so.

Example: Eragon from Eragon. No. Just...no. Typical hero. Whatever. No. Eragon=No.

My opnion. :/ I know everyone loves the book, but seriously.

Negrek
28th December 2005, 5:59 AM
My opnion. :/ I know everyone loves the book, but seriously
Actually, I greatly dislike the book, and I know I'm not alone. Eragon is an excellent study in fantasy cliches, actually; it is the quintessential fantasy book in that it is so archetypical, making it boring, predictable, and rather lifeless. IMO, of course; I do know that many people like it. It puts me to sleep.

So, yes, static characters are difficult to pull off in a lead role. They can be useful for side roles or the like, but in truch you need a dynamic protagonist.

Eternal Daydreamer
28th December 2005, 6:04 AM
Eregon? Never read it. Perhaps the reason is that it's too cliche. But I like Redwall so I shouldn't talk.

Another cliche is that the troublemakers are always boys. Like the Weasly twins in Harry Potter...

Dilasc
28th December 2005, 6:12 AM
All this Street Fighter talk makes me wish I never gave up on my Street Fighter fics. Bleh!

Eregon? Never heard of it. Then again, I don't really read books at all. Gasp! Perhaps that's a big shocker in it of itself, but on the bright side, not referring to books certainly brings about an avoidance of copying styles and themes, and helps prevents plagairism.

Anyway, here's another cliche to toss out there. Mewthree! Do I even need to go into detail about this one? As if one clone wasn't uber enough for RBY, we don't need repeat mistakes, do we? Even worse if it goes on to Mewfour and beyond. I think one blunder should be cleaned up before going on to the next, no?

xXSaberXx
28th December 2005, 6:20 AM
^:/ Clones in general are frowned upon in fics. Take the pokemorph clone excuse or the elemental maiden clone desctruco force thing. Cloning just gives a lot of instant pity to subject, and pity is usually a sucky thing to make the audience feel. Unlike a compliment, you can definetly get sick from too much pity.

Cloning is much like Parent-Dieing.

It's a cliche, and even though IT DOES ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE, it's a pity factory. But at the same time, it's also a grounding for character growth and what not. If done right.

*dances the DONE RIGHT dance*

And yes. Don't read Eragon if you don't want to waste a good 30$ or so. Like Negrek said, it's about as orignial as a wet rag.

Speaking of which....*high fives Negrek* Finally. Someone that DOESNT like it. :/ (I, personally, haven't seen many people who DON'T Like it. o-o;;; )

Yamato-san
28th December 2005, 6:29 AM
I think a character without talent is just as boring. The difference is, I think, that wether the talent is there to begin with, or just gradually gained. It's all in moderation perspective. It's much more entertaining to watch a character fight through losses and wins and heartbreaks and death and finally blossom into something bigger than watching someone smoke everyone all the time from the start. I plead guilty to doing this of course. D:

I don't know. I thought Alucard from the Hellsing anime was pulled off pretty nicely. What was interesting about him is that, though he always was strong and didn't change much, he was a bit of an enigma. We didn't know much about him at first, but as the series progressed, we got to see more of his existing traits being uncovered before our eyes, as well as his background. Of course, like what every cliche is capable of having, Alucard is an exception.

xXSaberXx
28th December 2005, 6:38 AM
^ So Allucard progressed, right?

Well that was what I was saying. o-o;;; DOUBLE ENTANDRE LAWLLAWLLAWLLAWL.

Ehem. So yes. Enigma's are Enigma's and no one can change that fact.


WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE POINT.

Also. People with mysterious pasts that are main characters shoot off warning bells in my head. Makes them seem like a Gary Stu NSA agent or something. o-o Unless they are done right. Once again.

Klaus
28th December 2005, 6:47 AM
Also. People with mysterious pasts that are main characters shoot off warning bells in my head. Makes them seem like a Gary Stu NSA agent or something. o-o Unless they are done right. Once again.

Yes, unless they're written right. But if it part of the story, i'll give the main character's past right in the first few chapters.

Oh, I didn't see anyone starting with Legendaries in here, if it is..sorry.

Nope, I don't like Eragon. Tried reading it..couldn't get into it.

I don't like it when someone startes out with dialoge. I like a nice
big paragraph of information right before the whole thing not just jumping in.

Yes, my fic's characters started out in New Bark. I don't really mind journey stories just aslong as everyone isn' so "robotic" I want a pokemon with filling and flavor. I want a pokemon that will give their trainer the bird. Like Kris' Totodile does. I mean if it's a Parady then more power to ya. I love paradies.
I just have different likes I guess.

I do adore fics where" OMG! THREE EVIL GUYS ARE GONNA TAKE OVER THE WORLD! WAA! I don't know, I like them.Lol.

I like some except if the lead trainer know's Ash and them. The only one I approve of if Misty. Can't get enough of Misty fics.

As always, be kind to the mime.

Iveechan
28th December 2005, 7:05 AM
I like fics that throw you in and then explain what's going on. It makes you keep reading. Personally, lots of info at the beginning bores the crap out of me.

Dilasc
28th December 2005, 7:11 AM
I want a pokemon with filling and flavor.

I know it's just a typo, but seriously, this has got to be the best placed typo in the world. Might I suggest Hostess new Voltorb Surprise. Make sure it doesn't explode, or you'll be asking 'where's the cream filling?'



Anyway, on topic now. It is important not to pile on loads of information all at once. As Ivee said, if you tell them the story basically right at the start, later chapters will be struggling to keep your interest. Let people read and learn about the characters as they read. They'll learn to love them, because the characters seem more realistic and intriguing. I do that, where I slowly reveal more about a character as the story progresses. Of course, I don't exactly have wonderful characters, so I'm a very bad example since I sometimes go to extremes.

Negrek
28th December 2005, 7:25 AM
I also prefer the "dive right in" approach. Too often an informative introduction tends more towards an infodump than anything actually useful. It can be done well by recognizing a balance and selecting the information carefully. What will actually be interesting to readers, and what will they actually remember several chapters later?

Puffs
28th December 2005, 7:40 AM
annoying cliche: Yaoi

always looking for fics I wanna read, having to filter through the thousands of Naruto/Sasuke, or Link/Sheik, or Pharoh/Yugi, or Ash/James, or Taichi/Yamato romance fics. You get the idea.

Iveechan
28th December 2005, 7:52 AM
Before anyone goes "OMG, YOU'RE A HOMOPHOBE", another reason that yaoi tends to (but not always) suck is that the characters are out of character a lot of the times. And what's the point of fanfiction where it's just people who happen to have the canon character's names and aren't really acting like them?

Seijiro Mafuné
28th December 2005, 12:53 PM
Makes me wonder why is it that nobody tries a cleansing once in a while.

Really bad clich&#233;: repeating thematics. It can be two centuries before or after the anim&#233; or games, and we're still stuck with the overused 'Collect eight badges, fight rival five times, defeat evil team of D00M!, capture/meet/fight legendaries who are probably 3V1L, go through tournament, beat 13375, happy ending' plots.

MachopGirl
28th December 2005, 10:30 PM
Ryu is not like that! Dare I say it, he's got an even blander personality. Ryu is more 'I want to better train myself and grow stronger because I like fighting. In order to do this, I must be a loner and travel in search of fights.'Oops! Shouldn't have used him as an example, but I do agree with that cliche.

I agree that Ryu is pretty bland. If the writers at Udon Studios haven't made Sakura tag along with him in the comics, he would've been a real stick in the mud.

Here's a cliche that clearly matches Ash/Gary and Naruto/Sasuke:

"Oh Look! We're rivals! We had to get stronger to beat each other!!"

Nylf
28th December 2005, 10:47 PM
The worst cliche IMO after Ho-oh and easily the hardest to make good. Pokebots. Trainers who just send out a Pokemon, it does it's attacks, it goes. No personality, no past, barely a character. Just no. Old example of Pokebot(I did WAY before joining Serebii on an old forum that died)


"Go Flygon!" Rick yelled, releasing the dragon.
"Flygon Hyperbeam!" the attack hit Kangaskhans one chink in it's armor, right underneath it's arm pits. The immense beast collapsed and Rick stood victorious.
That my friends had improvements. And it is hardly good with them, you'd faint at the original. Fresh(ie made up) quote demostrating how a TINY bit of personality helps:


"Okay buddy, we've been through everything together, you're my last hope, now go, NYLF!" Drake relesed his infamous dragon. The one with the green body. The one with the blue striped tail. the one with the orange rimmed wings. The one with the ornage eye guards. The one with...a blue thong fitted over it's light blue antennae? Everyone in the stadium, Drake and Steven included anime fell at the sight of a Flygon with a thong on it's head.
"DRAKE, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD THAT ****** DRAGON TO NOT WEAR MY UNDERWEAR ON IT'S HEAD!?" Suila yelled from her backseat position. Drake sweatdropped.
"Nylf, of all the times to do this why oh why now?" Nylf grinned, as Drake look worried. If he said what he thought he was going to say, murder may well be commited.
<"Because they're comfy!">
Instant classic, and all it took was one single bit of personality. Pokebots are dull, give a Pokemon a past, a present, a future and a personality and you're actually not doing a cliche.

Guitar dude bill
29th December 2005, 1:46 PM
Worst cliche evah is, go to lab, get starter pokemon from pokeproffesor and pwn first gym leader, goes on and beats next one and goes on till it reaches the league. If I'm correct on what cliches are. (Are they certain parts that are too unoriginal?)

Jetx
29th December 2005, 4:10 PM
IMO It's when the fic begins with:

Ash & co arrived at the pokemon center

I see them alot. <_<

Dragonfree
29th December 2005, 5:08 PM
You're not really all talking about clich&#233;s here.


1. A trite or overused expression or idea: “Even while the phrase was degenerating to clich&#233; in ordinary public use... scholars were giving it increasing attention” (Anthony Brandt).
2. A person or character whose behavior is predictable or superficial: “There is a young explorer... who turns out not to be quite the cliche expected” (John Crowley).
Clich&#233;s are something that tends to be bad because it's overused and predictable, not something like Pok&#233;bots (you know, I can't help wondering if somebody else happened to invent that word too or if everybody really ripped it off me o.O) that would be bad even if you were the first person ever to use it.

Nylf
2nd January 2006, 8:48 PM
OK, bumping a bit, but a discussion reminded me of a big cliche. Shiny starters. When done correctly, they make a story a lot more interesting(Such as The Forest Newbie, the Jolteon frequently got called painted, made for a great running joke). When done badly, as is almost always the case, they create a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. And the problem is this is one I use a lot, so I'm being hypocritical saying that it's a bad idea.