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Thread: Pokémon the Series XY | Pokémon the Series XY&Z

  1. #1
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    Default Pokémon the Series XY | Pokémon the Series XY&Z

    XY & XY&Z

    After the Unova League, Ash takes the advice of the Pokémon Reporter, Alexa, and visits the Kalos region where he learns of a new batch of Pokémon. While there, he meets the Lumiose City Gym Leader, Clemont, his sister Bonnie and later a girl called Serena who wishes to be a Pokémon Performer, who Ash met before when they were both children. With Team Rocket following them into the region once again, Ash decides to give his all to the regions Gyms to try and compete in the Kalos League. In addition to that, Team Flare have their eyes set on the region and have a plan to reset everything using Zygarde

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    It had a satisfying ending. It had its problems but of course, I enjoyed this a lot more than XY.
    ~Certified Alan Apologist~
    Pikachu deserves the main character treatment he rightfully earned!

    (Credit goes to Satomine Night)
    The enigmatic Bookworm & insightful Daydreamer:
    One prefers to keep to the sidelines out of danger, the other doesn't pay enough attention to sense the danger around her. Mao thrives in the face of chaos! Lillie shines in an organized setting.
    -Mao-Lillie friendship duo
    -Suiren: Full time big sister, part time kickasser, recommended for more screentime
    -Lillie will be Prof Kukui's live in assistant & bond with a lost Alolan Vulpix by chance
    -Ash will get character development and strives to be the best Ash like no Ash ever was...

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    First time i liked a male companion and a child companion's development. Also the first time i really liked a evil team arc.
    The animation was honestly godlike level. The plot was nice, it had potential to explore a lot of other subjects, but for a series that only had 3 years, it did great.

    Would've liked more moments between Serena and Clemont, but it's not always that you can be close friends with everyone in your group, sometimes you're just pals who have the same friends.
    Last edited by Xuxuba; 12th November 2016 at 5:10 AM.

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    I loved the mega evolution specials, the team Flare arc, and Serena's arc. I didn't really care much for anything else. The first year of XY was horrific imo.
    Apparently Serena sucks, smh -_-
    Serena as a character>>>>>>>>>>Amourshipping
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    It had its flaws but when got good it had some of the best moments in the series. Highlights for me were the Flare arc and the final Ash vs. Alain battle
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    XY(&Z) wasn't perfect, and it had its ups and downs, but it was definitely entertaining. I appreciated having a competent, bad** Ash, and I really liked the supporting characters. The Team Flare arc was amazing; the climax was something straight out of a classic shounen anime, and I loved it. All in all, this was a good series.

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    I haven't watched Pokemon consistently since around halfway through Best Wishes but I did catch the two part XY introduction when it first came out and it was amazing. However, when I got to the third episode, my expectations ended up being too high since for some reason, I was expecting it to be like the first two episodes, which was clearly a bad idea since Ash isn't gonna jump off Prism Tower every episode. So I took a break afterwards.

    I've kept up with the Mega Evolution series when they came out but I didn't get back into the main series until the beginning of the semi finals. I went back to binge the whole series, and I enjoyed it much more. Being a more casual viewer, the lackluster episodes didn't affect me as much due to not waiting a week for them to come out, and the standout episodes ended up standing out more (XY60, XY93, XYZ28, which is just a short list). The ending was beautiful, and while I had most of the episodes in memory closer than most viewers, the montage still made it feel like a long journey, as if I did watch it over the three years. XY and XYZ has been the most enjoyable season for me compared to the previous seasons and even with its flaws, like how long it took Serena to find her goal or the Clemont drought after the gym battle (again, not as much of an effect on me due to the binge but I can understand how those who have been there for the 3 years feel), when it was good, it got really good, with the emotional breakdowns making the feels, and the Team Flare arc being the best villain arc in my opinion.

    I certainly enjoyed Ash not being downgraded severely and still employing interesting tactics while maintaining a strong team. Serena is such an enjoyable character even when her goal didn't exist yet, and her pivotal shift in XY60 was one of the best moments in the anime. Clemont is certainly an upgrade from Cilan and, in my opinion, stands equal to Brock, if not higher due to him having a more defined goal which could be observed and was ultimately achieved at the end of the series. And Bonnie is 1000x better than Max.

    Also, bless the animation. All of the battles were enjoyable, with the standouts being Ash vs. Olympia, Ash vs. Diantha round 2, Ash vs. Wulfric round 2, Ash vs. Sawyer League, and Ash vs. Alain league. The lack of stock backgrounds was very beneficial to the point that the stock animations which were still being reused didn't feel excessively used, even though some were. I've rewatched Ash-Greninja vs. Mega Sceptile way too many times now just because it was done beautifully by the animators.

    And let's talk about that soundtrack. All of the openings were great tracks, with XY&Z being my top one of all of the openings and Volt and Getta Ban Ban being in my top 10/5 respectively. The endings, not counting those included in the Character Song Project, were a bit lackluster though barring the original version of DoriDori. And the implementation of the music in the show. AZ's theme is noted a lot and it has been used well every time it has showed up. The handling is also done well, with cutting the music at appropriate times in favour of silence to increase the serious tone. I hope the Sun and Moon soundtrack can deliver as well as the XY/XYZ soundtrack.

    XY and XYZ has reinvigorated my interest in the anime and I'm looking forward to the Sun and Moon anime to see how it's executed. For a Pokemon Anime, I give XY and XYZ a 9/10 and a definite recommendation for viewers, both new and old. Only the subbed version tho cuz no dub plz.

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    XY(&Z) had some very high highs and some pretty bad lows. Overall it was more good than bad, but that might just be me. This is gonna be a long one, and I probably skop a few things.

    The Good

    Pikachu kicking *** and taking names, especially at the League where he got Alain all pissed.

    The Openings. All openings were so good, except maybe M-Volt, and they really fit the the general feel of the episode. XYZ > Getta Ban Ban> Volt.

    The Team Flare arc. Easily the best episodes throughout the 3 years, bar none. They were just so good in every way. Music, voice acting, animation, you name it. Probably some of the best Pokemon has ever gotten.

    Ash being more competent. This was definitely a plus, though it did come at the cost of Ash's character. It did work out though for what they were going.

    The soundtrack. The music just keeps impressing me every single time. Alain's Theme is one of those tracks that really stands out.

    Animation. This is probably the best thing about XY(&Z). The battles were amazing to watch. I did **** my pants during Ash-Greninja vs Mega-Sceptile.

    Alain's VA. That guy delivered so hard, putting out performance after performance after performance. He probably takes the spot as best VA throughout XY(&Z).

    Manon being my cinnamon roll. There's nothing more to it.

    Ash-Greninja. In general Ash-Greninja was great, getting its own arc and at the same time giving Ash some character.

    Battle wise we got some really good stuff. Vs Olympia comes to mind here.

    Bonnie at times. I didn't find her to be the best, but she had her moments. Especially during the TF arc.

    XYZ47 was really nice, especially when I felt all the other episodes after the TF arc didn't impress me that much.

    I did like the group dynamic. It wasn't perfect, but it was enjoyable enough.

    TRio during the TF arc.

    The Negatives

    Ash's character. Okay, it was cool that he was a better trainer and all, but it came at a price. If they had balanced it better, it would probably have been quite an inprovement in my mind.

    Alain being the writer's pet. I liked Alain, for the most part, but then they kinda dropped the ball by having him win the League. Ash learnt that power isn't everything, so teach Alain that as well? He was this flawed character, he had these issues and they didn't go all the way. Let's not even talk what he did in 39-41.

    The League had its issues and certainly won't be remembered for how good it was. At the same time we had Ash vs Sawyer and Ash vs Alain. They didn't salvage the League, making sure the League didn't do anything well.

    XYZ38. Ugh. The famous 'lol nope' making sure Ash didn't win.

    Fillers, especially XYZ31. What was the point of that episode?

    Serena and her crush on Ash. I liked that for once there was actual things making a shipping really work out. And then they overdid it. At least we got a kiss out of it. If a character practically only revolves around a crush, there's clearly an issue.

    Post-TF arc. I really found XYZ44-49 to not be that good, with the exception of XYZ47.

    TRio during XYZ, with the exception of the TF arc.
    Last edited by Holy157; 11th November 2016 at 6:59 PM.

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    Had some major flaws (Ash's character, League Finals) but was the most epic series Pokemon has ever written. The last time I got so excited was watching Sinnoh league victors.

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    Everything about XY(Z) felt like a 'wipe clean' effort after the complaints of BW, erasing everything both positive and negative from that series and exacerbating the opposite direction as much as possible. So while we got competent Ash, a more good natured companion squad, funny/sympathetic TRio and a more fulfilled villain team plot, it also had occasional blandness or lack of foibles/development from Ash and co, TRio being incompetent padding again, battles being power spam-fests, cheaply made plot short cuts and deus ex machinas, and too often a clear lack of instinctive to root for the protagonists or be interested in them winning all the time. Even worse since the whole series had a slightly more pretentious air to it than previous ones.

    It might have been more enjoyable if it wasn't the absurd hype train and this kind of irritating feeling that the show was trying to be taken as more deep and epic than it really was, but, I dunno, something felt a bit frustrating and lacking whenever I watched this, at times even compared to other series. I wished they hadn't got rid of EVERYTHING BW tried new, even if it was far from perfect itself. Don't get me wrong, there are GREAT episodes (Frenzied Factory Fiasco is one of my favourite episodes of the entire show) but too many feel castrated or dumbed down in some annoying way.

    Still the animation and music (at least in the original edit) was very pleasing cosmetic wise, and the Japanese voices really did put effort into it. The dub on the other hand.......just.....don't watch the dub.
    Last edited by DatsRight; 12th November 2016 at 2:13 AM.

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    Overall I feel XY(Z) was good enough. My positives: Great animation, good gym battles, Ash vs Alain and Sawyer were also entertaining battles in the league (probably the only good part of it lol), I loved the XYZ opening and the Mega Evolutions specials. Some of the fillers were good, but then again...some were bad. More importantly, XY(Z) brought me back into watching the Anime again and it gave me one of my favorite characters and my favorite Pokegirl.

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    it was really nice. probably my 3rd favorite series overall.

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    A pretty decent series overall. It's far from the best IMO, but it had it's moments (TF arc, animation overall, etc.). It also had it's fair share of disappointments (First half of Serena, Kalos League, etc.) I won't miss this series too much as I am pretty hyped for SM, but at the same time I will miss the run I had with XY(Z). Off to SM, where hopefully it can build upon XY(Z) and fix some of it's mistakes.

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    XY(Z) was good but it had too many flaws for me to call it "the best".
    It had too much overhyped episodes (Kalos League, Serena's and Ash's "dates", first half of Serena's character arc, Mega Charizard X excessive glorification, Alain felt shoehorned into the Kalos League for the sake of kicking Ash out of it (even if I liked his character a lot, TR also turned stale adn repetitive afetr 30 episodes, Ash had too much Gary-Stuness, lack of clonfict outside of generic villains, Pokemon with potential that went entirely to waste (Luxray, Goodra, Noivern, Pancham, Sylveon, Braixen to some extent), XY Yveltal Special, Lack of continuity )
    Other than that I enjoyed its best moments (TF Arc, Ash Greninaj arc, ME Specials, Cilan Special, The essential non-filler episodes of XY, Alain's character)
    I rate it 7.5/10.
    Its very good but it could've been miles better
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    Serena gave Ash a kiss, Lillie gave him a child.

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    XY was the series that made my interest in the Pokemon Anime double. Ash was so competent, mature, his battling skill was at its peak in this series, he was the most consistent in winning his battles in this series. And the best ever female companion ever, Serena, happened in this series. Serena's crush and admiration for Ash, the way he cared for Ash was a very adorable thing. I loved Amourshipping from the core of my heart. And had his arguably most powerful Pokemon in this series- Ash-Greninja. The Bond Phenomenon arc was really awesome. I hoped that with all his maturity and competence in this series, Ash should've won the Kalos League and the subsequent Champions League and story should have ended on a high, with him settling down with Serena and SM series should have continued to a new protagonist. But sadly, these things didn't happen. XY was the series which raised a lot of hopes and interests, but at the end of the series, a lot of those hopes were crushed. There was a lot of hope build up of Ash winning the League fue to Ash never defeating Alain before and the hyping of the giant orange shuriken through previews, but still Ash lost the League. Ash-Greninja was Ash's strongest Pokemon who had such a strong bond with him, it was released at the end of the series. And lastly, after all the build up on Serena's crush, admiration and care for Ash, she parted ways with Ash. XY raised hopes very high, but naturally there is a lot of disappointment where those hopes are crushed at the end. There was a chance of ending Ash's story on an absolute high in this series but that didn't happen. XY was a dream crusher series at the end with a disappointing ending. But recalling all the great moments in the series, I will say that it gave me some of my most enjoyable moments of watching the Pokemon Anime. Though the end was quite disappointing, I personally consider XY as the grand finale of Ash's story as his character came a full cycle in this series.
    Ash×Serena- Amourshipping rules!
    A match made in heaven!

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    After a significant absence from the Pokemon world, I catched one of the XY episodes completely on accident. I started watching it with amusement and surprise (They're still doing this? After all this time?), and I didn't even realized how almost a entire week passed where I watched an episode after episode, at least 5-7 hours per day.

    XY(Z) was simply good. Despite being almost twenty five yealrs old, this series made me feel in love again with the world and it's characters. Sure, it had it's flaws like for example showcases, where the creators didn't hand any idea on what to do with them, or poor planning where the they had a steady pace in storytelling for the first 100 episodes only to somehow rush the ending [hurting Ash's performance on the Pokemon League, his final match felt like it was rushed, only to immediately introduce the Flare arc], but the enjoyment was still there.

    What I liked the most about the entire series, was definitely the four main characters. They had chemistry, you could definitely feel the bond forming between them. They were definitely friends, but sometimes they were something more.

    We saw how Ash [who was really mature in this series, big plus] was doing a great job in mentoring Serena and Clemont during their journey.
    We saw Serena who during the story definitely grew up, transformed from a shy, quiet and a little lost girl who didn't know what she wanted to do into a confident, determined one.
    We saw Bonnie, who despite being a child, definitely gained much experience. She saw Serena and Ash as their sister and brother who also both inspired her to be a trainer.

    The characters developed throughout the entire series, both individually and as a group. The feeling of their friendship was strong and honestly... endearing to watch. Their individual development was also done well with Clemont growing up to be a better trainer and finding love in his inventions, however the character that I found myself being definitely more attached to was Serena.

    We were with her since the beginning, we saw her standing up to her mother and wanting to go on her own path, we were with her as she struggled to find her goal, we were with her through the ups and downs during her showcase performances. We were happy with her successes and felt sad for her lossess [the hair cutting scene from XY60 is definitely the most emotional, gutwrenching moment from the entire anime, even on the same level as Ash turning to stone from the first movie]. Hell... even her crush on Ash was part of her character, and while it was a little silly it was also part of her development. You were definitely rooting for her during her showcases, you wished her all the best, and her getting the man that she had a crush on felt like the icing on the cake. I totally did not squeal like a little girl during the kiss scene in the last episode... [I'm also totally not a amourshipper after that series, I swear! :P]

    I liked the battles as well. The scheme of attack-attack [for me] got got bored quite time ago, and it was nice that the creators "turned up" things a little with the use of terrain, complicated but still effective strategy.

    I did not like the rival. This time the relationship between Ash and the rival was build on respect and friendship but there were definitely more than just couple of moments where Sawyer felt more like a creep than a friend. Also his character was rushed he went definitely too quickly from basically nobody to a competent [and in some places even overpowered] trainer.

    Of course the presence of Team Rocket was utterly pointless [maybe besides The Flare arc, but that was only a couple of episodes]. They were boring way before when I was younger and honestly it's sad to see that the creators still don't have any idea for them, except giving them the role of "time stealers" just to fill out the 20 min per episode mark.

    XY(Z) was definitely one of a kind. Pretty decent story, nice characters that developed continuously throughout the episodes, amazing Pokemon fights. It was actually a little hard to say goodbye [considering that this is the last time we're seeing the characters, because when Sun&Moon comes out, all the XY(Z) progress lands in the dumpster ;_;], but I guess... it was fun while it lasted.

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    XY was a solid "B". There were numerous series (or arcs within a series) that were superior. However, XY&Z + Mega Evolution specials (I'll lump them together since they're intertwined) are right up there as one of the best arcs (on par with DP and Kanto, below BF).
    Thank you FairyWitch for the artwork!

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    This whole generation, especially the XYZ arc, was a complete and total rollercoaster. First of all it's partly what brought me to this site in the first place. But the amount of hype that this generation's anime generated (what with the competent Ash who seemed like he could finally win a league, and Amourshipping mainly), even if most of it ended in fans being spit on, it all got me back into full swing Pokemon. I had a blast, and it even had a little bit of impact on my life overall. Not sad to say goodbye though
    I may not care much for Amourshipping, but I do love Serena!


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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLazyEyes View Post
    A pretty decent series overall. It's far from the best IMO, but it had it's moments (TF arc, animation overall, etc.). It also had it's fair share of disappointments (First half of Serena, Kalos League, etc.) I won't miss this series too much as I am pretty hyped for SM, but at the same time I will miss the run I had with XY(Z). Off to SM, where hopefully it can build upon XY(Z) and fix some of it's mistakes.
    Pretty much how I feel as well.

    A decent series, but not nearly as amazing as people make it out to be.


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    We are just two episodes into S&M and I already miss XY(Z). The more mature animation and more action based approach did bring it to a new place, and brought back a lot of fans like me who had dropped the series after AG.
    Selena for me is the second best pokegirl (May will always have my heart for her badass team), and I do hope she gets to visit Alola and some short of special.
    I will stick around for a while, but I cannot wait for the next gen games and a return to form, after this regressive style they are pushing now (also, the animation quality for the first episodes was awful).

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    XY(Z) is an average series & find it pretty overrated overall.

    Positives:
    - the beginning. That's it. Granted everything was good then. TRio, battles/action, characters (besides Serena), got an interesting looking plot & humor.
    - The league. All full battles on-screen where interesting & intense. 'But baaaaaaw ash lost again!' Yeah, was it that surprising really? I'm not going to be butthurt cuz the writers didn't bend to people's wishes to have ash win this time.
    -ok another good thing is they brought back TRio antics/quirks back. James & his bottle caps

    Neutral:
    -Battles leagues better than BW, but then once mega evolution came in most battles became 'HAMMER POWEFUL ATTACK & DODGE' & overrpowerfest, & it became the same with ash-greninja. 💤
    - Bonnie she was very cute & enjoyed her childish acts. And she had a unique role with squishy. Most episodes later on though she is very little active. Understandable though as she can't do anything cuz she's not ten.

    Negatives:
    -characters:
    Ash: good news he's better than BW Ash. And that's all that's good about him. Now he evolved into typical male shonnen main character. Even goku was more interesting than XY(Z) ash... AND NARUTO.
    Clemont: he was so amazing as a character!... in the beginning. After Serena got her goal, he became background, & after his gym badge he becomes practically non-existent. After his gym badge his main role was the gag guy. 'THE FUTURE IS NOW THANKS TO SCIENCE!' /inventionblowingupinfaces
    'MARRY MY OLDER BRO OLDER WOMAN!' 'BONNIE I TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES NOT TO DO THAT!'/robotarmpullsbonnieaway
    TRio: they were just jokester punching bags after the begging. Plus they rarely had their personality shine.
    Rivals: completely boring, Trevor & Terino just gimmick characters, shunna just that bubbly friendly character, Alain is the boring, 'mysterious' anti-hero, green hairs kid whose name slips my mind is just a guy who take notes & studies, minettie just teased Serena, nini came late & is pretty unmemorable after her first appearance.
    Pokemon: they all had great personality... in the beginning of their run. Sadly the only one who seemed to keep his personality was Chespin & he wasn't shown much after clemont was background.
    Serena: worst for last, cuz there's a lot of problems I have with her. Let's start off with her redesign... it sucks. I guess it does look like a 10 year old cut her hair & picked out her own clothes without help. Which was what happened. Her first outfit was a bit weird, but tolerable enough. Then they changed her into her current monstrosity.

    But i don't judge characters mainly on their looks. That's just shallow. We will now get into the big problems I have with her. She's a huge Mary Sue. She gets moves & Pokemon that evolve with little effort. She never failed her goal cuz she was outperformed (except for aria). She won one first round by just standing there cuz magically ryhorn are just attracted to her for no reason. After never having a serious battle that lasted more than a couple moves she somehow was able to give ash a good battle. She never got called out for favoring ash, ignoring clemont, or being manipulative. Ash & Serena's fight was viewed as 'all ash's fault' in the anime when she just needed to leave ash alone. Steal ash's clothes & impersonate him? Serena got no negative consequence for that. Nag ash like his mom? 'Ok Serena ur da boss.'

    Her 'development'... she doesn't really have any cuz her personality flops all over the god damn place. When she was racing her mom she remembers how she used to cry all the time about everything. But after falling off the skido she gets backs on without shedding a tear. Few episodes later, she lost the not contest thing ONCE while it was her very first time doing it... and she bawls like a huge baby. Though she never truely developed. She always stayed dependant & focused on getting 'ash-sama'!

    Her crush & how she handles it is minipulitve, controlling, and makes her a complete tool. I don't know how that's possible but with a bi-polar character like Serena... anyways she's minipulitive cuz she won't let ash be human and have feelings cuz 'your not acting like the ash I know!' Controlling a bunch of situations. Getting angry at the teacher for a misunderstanding, trying to hold ash's hand, and kissing him, whoops that's sexual assault. Oh right, guys can't get sexually assaulted by woman silly me 😑 And I'll remind you all throughout the journey THEY ARE JUST FRIENDS NOT DATING. And her parting words make me want to vomit. 'You are my goal!' 'When you see me again I'll be a prettyier woman.' Shallow sexist tool is all I can say.

    And all in all, all Serena was was a girly-girl cliche. She didn't battle much, she was into an all-girl, prissy, dress up, show off, cook, getting 'princess keys' in her goal, didn't like to camp out, refused to get her face ruined to save her from being mind-controlled, hated to race on ryhorn, & swoons over guy. Her backstory sucks as all it is is how she knew ash for like 30 minutes at most and how she was a stupid bimbo going out into the woods alone & being freaked out by a poliwag for no reason. I found Serena a waste of space & time & overall broung the XY(Z) series down. Not the only thing, just made it 2X worse. She was somewhat relatable but then you see her in action...

    -kalos queen: at least contest guys could enter, & females could go after gym badges and compete in the Pokemon league. Not this stupid, shallow, sexist, contest talent round rip-off. And how you win it is pretty boring in itself as who cares it's just a popularity contest.

    -plot: too slow going. We got some here, then a string of fillers. And the plot itself? Wow so original [\sarcasm] MC is chosen one and a great disasater will happen cuz evil team organization & heroes have to stop them. Really?

    I still have to watch the TF arc, but I don't think that'll chance my opinion of this let down of a series, which the only good thing is that it's better than BW.
    ATM XY(Z) is getting a 5/10 (mediocre) for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoundoomFan View Post
    XY(Z) is an average series & find it pretty overrated overall.

    Positives:
    - the beginning. That's it. Granted everything was good then. TRio, battles/action, characters (besides Serena), got an interesting looking plot & humor.
    - The league. All full battles on-screen where interesting & intense. 'But baaaaaaw ash lost again!' Yeah, was it that surprising really? I'm not going to be butthurt cuz the writers didn't bend to people's wishes to have ash win this time.
    -ok another good thing is they brought back TRio antics/quirks back. James & his bottle caps

    Neutral:
    -Battles leagues better than BW, but then once mega evolution came in most battles became 'HAMMER POWEFUL ATTACK & DODGE' & overrpowerfest, & it became the same with ash-greninja. ��
    - Bonnie she was very cute & enjoyed her childish acts. And she had a unique role with squishy. Most episodes later on though she is very little active. Understandable though as she can't do anything cuz she's not ten.

    Negatives:
    -characters:
    Ash: good news he's better than BW Ash. And that's all that's good about him. Now he evolved into typical male shonnen main character. Even goku was more interesting than XY(Z) ash... AND NARUTO.
    Clemont: he was so amazing as a character!... in the beginning. After Serena got her goal, he became background, & after his gym badge he becomes practically non-existent. After his gym badge his main role was the gag guy. 'THE FUTURE IS NOW THANKS TO SCIENCE!' /inventionblowingupinfaces
    'MARRY MY OLDER BRO OLDER WOMAN!' 'BONNIE I TOLD YOU A MILLION TIMES NOT TO DO THAT!'/robotarmpullsbonnieaway
    TRio: they were just jokester punching bags after the begging. Plus they rarely had their personality shine.
    Rivals: completely boring, Trevor & Terino just gimmick characters, shunna just that bubbly friendly character, Alain is the boring, 'mysterious' anti-hero, green hairs kid whose name slips my mind is just a guy who take notes & studies, minettie just teased Serena, nini came late & is pretty unmemorable after her first appearance.
    Pokemon: they all had great personality... in the beginning of their run. Sadly the only one who seemed to keep his personality was Chespin & he wasn't shown much after clemont was background.
    Serena: worst for last, cuz there's a lot of problems I have with her. Let's start off with her redesign... it sucks. I guess it does look like a 10 year old cut her hair & picked out her own clothes without help. Which was what happened. Her first outfit was a bit weird, but tolerable enough. Then they changed her into her current monstrosity.

    But i don't judge characters mainly on their looks. That's just shallow. We will now get into the big problems I have with her. She's a huge Mary Sue. She gets moves & Pokemon that evolve with little effort. She never failed her goal cuz she was outperformed (except for aria). She won one first round by just standing there cuz magically ryhorn are just attracted to her for no reason. After never having a serious battle that lasted more than a couple moves she somehow was able to give ash a good battle. She never got called out for favoring ash, ignoring clemont, or being manipulative. Ash & Serena's fight was viewed as 'all ash's fault' in the anime when she just needed to leave ash alone. Steal ash's clothes & impersonate him? Serena got no negative consequence for that. Nag ash like his mom? 'Ok Serena ur da boss.'

    Her 'development'... she doesn't really have any cuz her personality flops all over the god damn place. When she was racing her mom she remembers how she used to cry all the time about everything. But after falling off the skido she gets backs on without shedding a tear. Few episodes later, she lost the not contest thing ONCE while it was her very first time doing it... and she bawls like a huge baby. Though she never truely developed. She always stayed dependant & focused on getting 'ash-sama'!

    Her crush & how she handles it is minipulitve, controlling, and makes her a complete tool. I don't know how that's possible but with a bi-polar character like Serena... anyways she's minipulitive cuz she won't let ash be human and have feelings cuz 'your not acting like the ash I know!' Controlling a bunch of situations. Getting angry at the teacher for a misunderstanding, trying to hold ash's hand, and kissing him, whoops that's sexual assault. Oh right, guys can't get sexually assaulted by woman silly me �� And I'll remind you all throughout the journey THEY ARE JUST FRIENDS NOT DATING. And her parting words make me want to vomit. 'You are my goal!' 'When you see me again I'll be a prettyier woman.' Shallow sexist tool is all I can say.

    And all in all, all Serena was was a girly-girl cliche. She didn't battle much, she was into an all-girl, prissy, dress up, show off, cook, getting 'princess keys' in her goal, didn't like to camp out, refused to get her face ruined to save her from being mind-controlled, hated to race on ryhorn, & swoons over guy. Her backstory sucks as all it is is how she knew ash for like 30 minutes at most and how she was a stupid bimbo going out into the woods alone & being freaked out by a poliwag for no reason. I found Serena a waste of space & time & overall broung the XY(Z) series down. Not the only thing, just made it 2X worse. She was somewhat relatable but then you see her in action...

    -kalos queen: at least contest guys could enter, & females could go after gym badges and compete in the Pokemon league. Not this stupid, shallow, sexist, contest talent round rip-off. And how you win it is pretty boring in itself as who cares it's just a popularity contest.

    -plot: too slow going. We got some here, then a string of fillers. And the plot itself? Wow so original [\sarcasm] MC is chosen one and a great disasater will happen cuz evil team organization & heroes have to stop them. Really?

    I still have to watch the TF arc, but I don't think that'll chance my opinion of this let down of a series, which the only good thing is that it's better than BW.
    ATM XY(Z) is getting a 5/10 (mediocre) for me.
    I don't agree with you but I laughed so hard at your Serena rant xD

  23. #23
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    Nag ash like his mom? 'Ok Serena ur da boss.'
    Because if she was completley nice to Ash you wouldve complained about her being his waifu (which you do so lel)

    Her 'development'... she doesn't really have any cuz her personality flops all over the god damn place. When she was racing her mom she remembers how she used to cry all the time about everything. But after falling off the skido she gets backs on without shedding a tear. Few episodes later, she lost the not contest thing ONCE while it was her very first time doing it... and she bawls like a huge baby.
    Its almost like failing (not even failing, falling off a skiddo does not equal instant failure, just get back on) at something you didnt like doing to begin with after years and years of practice is a lot diffrent then actually failing at somehting you put your all into (and the failure was for a incredibly simple mistake)


    Though she never truely developed. She always stayed dependant & focused on getting 'ash-sama'!
    This is the literal equivalent to people's only complaint about Iris being the "what a kid" crap (ballooning something relatively minor/secondary and acting like it's their entire character as if you didnt watch the show), once people use that I lose all inability to take them seriously so I wont even address the rest of this complaint except this one part.

    and kissing him, whoops that's sexual assault.
    My sides have left orbit, are you being real? You know they're both 10 year old children right and it was just an innocent kiss that Ash showed no discomfort about whatsoever?

    nd all in all, all Serena was was a girly-girl cliche. She didn't battle much, she was into an all-girl, prissy, dress up, show off, cook, getting 'princess keys' in her goal, didn't like to camp out, refused to get her face ruined to save her from being mind-controlled, hated to race on ryhorn, & swoons over guy.
    Serena "not liking to camp out" stopped being a thing early in XY once she got used to it and it's pretty sad you're bringing that up as a way to drag her when that's a perfect example of her developing, in a minor way sure but still it's not even a flaw anymore. The mind control thing was a one off gag so dont even tyr that, and hating Ryhorn racing has nothing to do with being a girl even, she disliked it and wanted to try something new, again there's your development that you're ignoring to villanze her. And already talked about the crush thing.

    -kalos queen: at least contest guys could enter, & females could go after gym badges and compete in the Pokemon league. Not this stupid, shallow, sexist, contest talent round rip-off. And how you win it is pretty boring in itself as who cares it's just a popularity contest.
    You know characters have to work hard and train (which, yes we do see Serena do btw before anyone says anyhting) just like any other profession right? It's not just show up and look pretty? I wish people would stop acting like Serena didnt have to do anything to win, its the most unfair bs and I dont even like Performances that much.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    Because if she was completley nice to Ash you wouldve complained about her being his waifu (which you do so lel)
    I think it's more anything that wasn't completely nice about her wasn't developed in story. The plot TREATED her like a perfectly nice and competent girl and anything negative, even if it could amount to good development and foibles, was whitewashed and unimportant, I mean less in terms of her always getting away with crap and all that (that was more Bonnie's job) and more just it being undeveloped and usually just comic relief. I mean I don't see her as abusive or 'manipulative', but her 'bond' with Ash WAS definitely glorified. She actually probably had the least of a chemistry with him out of all the Pokegirls.

    Truthfully foibles weren't much of a focus at all in this series. Clemont's inventing bumbles or meekness or Bonnie's brattiness were there for comic relief and nothing else. Flaws and conflicts were hardly ever a part of serious development, which isn't good because they are meant to be as much as the positives. They didn't grow from any mistakes or shortcomings they made. Everything was so nice and perfect with this team despite an underlying sense of dysfunction, when it wasn't kinda boring it felt delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    Its almost like failing (not even failing, falling off a skiddo does not equal instant failure, just get back on) at something you didnt like doing to begin with after years and years of practice is a lot diffrent then actually failing at somehting you put your all into (and the failure was for a incredibly simple mistake)
    She lost her very first showcase, and only due to a fluke. The show treated it like a disaster she didn't clean house the very first time she entered and made her do so by her second because she was 'the new Serena' with a haircut but no different approach in her performance whatsoever. The crying I'm meh towards but the treatment of the showcase progression was laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    This is the literal equivalent to people's only complaint about Iris being the "what a kid" crap (ballooning something relatively minor/secondary and acting like it's their entire character as if you didnt watch the show), once people use that I lose all inability to take them seriously so I wont even address the rest of this complaint except this one part.
    No because Iris' complaint there amounts to a slightly demeaning catchphrase she spammed too much, while Serena's amounts to what was supposed to make a huge amount of her character development. I mean, I don't even agree with most of the points made above, but I do agree Serena didn't come off as developing and improving as a trainer much at all. She was just too glorified and protected, at the cost of her making any trial and error and becoming remotely versatile. I thought after BW they might be done making the heroes invincible and cheaply safeguarded and try to make them fallible and hard working, but Serena got all the spoils with little of the hardship. She didn't lose ANYTHING without an excuse given by the plot, despite cases she was blatantly untrained and incompetent even by the end of the series (she was stuck against Flare grunts the moment one basic attack failed, she'd learned NO different strategies at all in all that time because she'd been getting handed victories or thrashing dumbed down opponents like TR. But of course it didn't backfire on her, someone saved her before her team suffered even a hit, and prevented her from losing her dignity and realising her shortcomings, because Serena having a flaw and being punished by the plot like all her predecessors is 'too mean').

    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    You know characters have to work hard and train (which, yes we do see Serena do btw before anyone says anyhting) just like any other profession right? It's not just show up and look pretty? I wish people would stop acting like Serena didnt have to do anything to win, its the most unfair bs and I dont even like Performances that much.
    Winning with the same bare bones strategy you had from the start and then being useless the moment it fails is not hard working and developing. Yeah we saw some basic scenes of her training but did they have much context or amount to anything in her methods?
    Last edited by DatsRight; 22nd November 2016 at 3:36 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    Because if she was completley nice to Ash you wouldve complained about her being his waifu (which you do so lel)
    I don't care that she's sometimes mean to 'my ashy-kins'. I care that ash or anyone else for that matter never snapped or told her up when she was acting like that. Cuz you know, any person who nags them at least is a bit snarky adding, 'what, are you my mom or something?' Hence ONE of the reasons why i think she's a Mary Sue.

    Its almost like failing (not even failing, falling off a skiddo does not equal instant failure, just get back on) at something you didnt like doing to begin with after years and years of practice is a lot diffrent then actually failing at somehting you put your all into (and the failure was for a incredibly simple mistake)
    Well the race decided if she was going to do her goal or not, she knew that but still was able to climb up on the skiddo without crying. However, it wasn't like that one loss was that destroyed her dreams right then & there.

    [QUOTE]This is the literal equivalent to people's only complaint about Iris being the "what a kid" crap (ballooning something relatively minor/secondary and acting like it's their entire character as if you didnt watch the show), once people use that I lose all inability to take them seriously so I wont even address the rest of this complaint except this one part.[\QUOTE]
    Cuz she didn't decide to leave home till she saw ash? Cuz once ash let her join she didn't spend most of her time swooning over ash? Cuz during her kalos queen goal she got confidence herself & never thought 'ash said this, & so I will use it to lift myself up!' Cuz she didn't make the wulfric battle untolerable? Cuz she didn't radio ash for no reason? No we can't never be annoyed with the things about her crush like it's not logical for Iris haters to hate her for an annoying catchphrase that makes her a hypocrite.

    My sides have left orbit, are you being real? You know they're both 10 year old children right and it was just an innocent kiss that Ash showed no discomfort about whatsoever?
    IMO he looked quite annoyed if you look at him after the kiss & not clemont, Bonnie, & the Pokemon. In any case she didn't even know if ash would be ok with the kiss & just did it. But I'm not serious with the sexual assault clam as I'm saying she was being controlling there.

    "Serena "not liking to camp out" stopped being a thing early in XY once she got used to it and it's pretty sad you're bringing that up as a way to drag her when that's a perfect example of her developing, in a minor way sure but still it's not even a flaw anymore. The mind control thing was a one off gag so dont even tyr that, and hating Ryhorn racing has nothing to do with being a girl even, she disliked it and wanted to try something new, again there's your development that you're ignoring to villanze her. And already talked about the crush thing.
    She hates ryhorn racing cuz it's 'too hard' & not in her interest aka dressing up, showing off, & being popular. Aka girly-girl cliche c**p. And if you want to say something that happened less than an episode and never really mentioned again as development, than I can use that '1 time gag' as proof that she's just a girly-girl cliche.

    You know characters have to work hard and train (which, yes we do see Serena do btw before anyone says anyhting) just like any other profession right? It's not just show up and look pretty? I wish people would stop acting like Serena didnt have to do anything to win, its the most unfair bs and I dont even like Performances that much.
    In kalos queen they don't really need to train with their Pokemon. As long as you get the people out in the world to like you, than bam you are a winner. Remember when that girl who was yelling at pelarmo whined about how her performance was much better than Serena's and was coordinated bettter? Well too bad for her, it didn't matter. It was only popularity that mattered. Except for the first round, but then in the end you just have to learn how to cook, design, & be lucky & just attract ryhorn by standing there that requires a lot of training.

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    I don't agree with you but I laughed so hard at your Serena rant xD
    Well at least I entertained you a bit even if we disagree. XD
    Weep, and you'll weep alone...
    ...laugh, and the whole world laughs too!



    Thanks secret santa!

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