What I Did for Love! (444)

[Geodude]

LOL, of course Lilian's outfit wouldn't have anything to do with it would it? I really wonder why the animators chose to give Lilian such a skin tight outfit. Sharp contrast to Vivian maybe?

Thank you, Captain Obvious. How would I have been talking about her looks and not mean her outfit, especially since she has the same face and hair as her sister?

And since Combusken's the first person to point that out, I'm guessing most people don't feel the same way? That's pretty much the first negative comment about Lillian I've ever seen.

[jolteonjak]

He speaks the truth. Marshtomp was owning Eevee most of it, so Eevee should be out of the game before it got a chance to make it's "come back".

This is exactly what I was thinking the whole time watching it. If Marshtomp used Protect another time or two Brock would have won. Even knowing the outcome, I'd have to say this was one of the best contests I've seen (English and Japanese).

Its a shame Brock won't actually be winning enough contests to be in a GF, but hopefully the writers will let him win one (probably right after Jessie wins her first one). I think he'd make a pretty good coordinator. And if I may just throw out something for someone to start a thread...who wants to see James and Manene in a contest?

[.Bambi.]

Still, she's good at working the crowd, and she's a vast improvement looks-wise over Vivian. Vivian looked like a 50's housewife; Lillian looks young, energetic, and cool.

I don't love Bree/Marcia Cross for nothing ;O

What does Lillian say that is so annoying?

See MagicBox's post.


I don't have a problem with Lilian in general, though I must say I prefer Vivian's look and personality much more than hers. And her outfit would be nice if she didn't have that blinding pink arm sock and grey spandies under her blue hotpants.

It's just the way she says "Here we GO!" in her little Engrish tone and does that 'punch towards the screen' movement. Talk about stock footage >.>

[Jo-Jo]

I think Lilian's cool. I really like her voice, and her Engrish is fun. Vivian was a better dresser, though.

[Silent Conversation]

I dont think that this episode had a good plot for two reasons:

1. I don't think Brock should've entered a contest

2. May entered a contest 5 episodes ago!!!! It should be more spread out!

[.Bambi.]

1. I don't think Brock should've entered a contest

He didn't just enter it randomly, he had a reason to. To impress that woman.

2. May entered a contest 5 episodes ago!!!! It should be more spread out!

Everyone knows that the Battle Frontier is going a a fast pace. 5 episodes between Contests is actually quite long, seeing as the last two were only 1 episode apart.

[CyberCubed]

1. I don't think Brock should've entered a contest

Brock only needs one reason to do something:

A pretty girl. That's it.

2. May entered a contest 5 episodes ago!!!! It should be more spread out!

Have you been paying attention to this saga at all? There are Brains and Contests with only two-three episodes apart.

And what does the placement of this Contest have to do with the plot of the actual episode?

[Pokemon Fan]

I was rather disappointed in some of the remarks made in this thread, post after post bashing the episode's events based on things that didn't even happen or were misinterpreted, so I feel compelled to add my two cents.

Eevee may have been trained and Marshtomp was hardly touched. But still you can't tell me a pokemon that was around that early can lose to a newborn.

Every pokemon is different, and grow at different rates. Dratinis take ages to become Dragonites, while Caterpie can get to their final stage in a mere few weeks. The fact that Eevee is only a few months old has little bearing on its strength. Really, a pokemon's experience level and age are two entirely different things. Age should only be used as an excuse for weakness if there is no other reason known. Plus Eevee had an advantage in speed and agility over the relatively slow and unmaneuverable Marshstomp.

And many MANY responders who didn't like this episode act like Eevee KOed Marshstomp. The fact that it didn't and won by only a few points should really make us all happy. What more could you ask for in a match up using these Pokemon? Heck, I think they could have been justified having Eevee knock Marshstompt unconscious with a Shadow Ball to the head, what with how powerful that move has always been shown to be in the anime, but they did the wisest thing and merely had Eevee endure and keep a slight point advantage and still people are upset.

The proof is in the pudding, eevee won. Sure, in the "real" world marshtomp should've won... but the writers are evil and twisted, we all know this so we shouldn't be surprised.

Allow me to quote Brock from a recent episode in the U.S.

"Evolution is a lot more complicated than that."

We've seen time and again that in the show experience level is just one factor influencing evolution. Pokemon that have never battled evolve fairly often due to age or emotional need or sudden physical strain. In contrast some pokemon that never evolve still possess a very high experience level.

What I mean is this. Brock focuses on raising pokemon to be healthy and strong. May focuses on battle skills and the appearence every move in battle makes. Both create strong fighters that can do well in Contests, but May's technique still has a slight edge over Brock's as she focuses more on what the contests focus on. Therefore even if Brock is stronger than her May will still have an inherent edge in a contest with him no matter what pokemon she uses. Essentially all May had to do was keep Eevee from falling unconscious and her superior Contest training would ensure that Eevee lost fewer points than Marshstomp. We have to remember that the point meters don't even read damage exactly, they reflect a pokemon's overall performance and Eevee kept itself confident and focused throughout the match.

Surprised there are no complaints about Eevee magically learning Dig to win...

This really irks me (not the poster who was making a point about people complaining but the idea presented) as Eevee didn't learn Dig during the battle and didn't win with it. From the beginning of the episode we can see that May's Eevee learned Dig at some earlier undetermined point. At least that was what it looked like to me.

One might also note, that there is a difference between the time a Pokemon learns a move and the time it first uses the move. As I recall when Ash saw Charizard glowing he realized it had learned Overheat during their practice session, but it didn't actually use the move until later.

Seriously I actually think

Squirtle = Eevee

Why? Sure Eevee trained more but still.....

A. They both just hatched.

See above. Age doesn't equal strength. The anime shows this often. An Absol may mature slowly and be relatively weak when young (like that little girl's), whereas an Eevee if trained well may mature quickly and gain strength rapidly. It would even vary between individuals.

B. They both took down fairly experienced pokemon. You don't know that Ariados was any better/worse than Mashtomp anyway.

All that Ariados seemed able to do was spin webs with a good degree of skill. It certainly had some experience but was far from what I'd call a strong fighter.

C. They both pulled a last minute move out of their a**

See above, Dig was not suddenly learned at the last minute.

But really, even if was would it matter? The strains of battle logically would cause pokemon to learn new moves, and number of these moves can be mastered without any further training. Was anyone bothered when Nocowl suddenly learned Confusion ans mastered it with no training? What about Combusken's Mega Kick? Or heck, Grovyle's Leaf Blade.

One might then argue that the point is the pokemon are young and inexperienced, but even that doesn't hold much water I think. Pokemon can learn some moves during just about any point in their lives, and the strain of battle may cause an inexperienced Pokemon to be even MORE likely to learn and master an attack, as their competitive nature strains to find a way to win and utilizes the sudden, massive influx of experience.

[Chris]

Suprise suprise, the one time I actually DISLIKE Haruka winning. Why? Because the writers and animators are so full of it.

Do explain how the hell Takeshi managed to lose points during his battle when he was WINNING? o_O Haruka's attacks were being countered and evaded with little effort and yet Takeshi somehow ended up losing points in the process until she makes a comeback.

Wtf?

Anyone else find it ridiculous how dense Musashi and Kojiro are to be standing around in their Rocket uniforms in Kanto? XP

[jolteonjak]

This really irks me (not the poster who was making a point about people complaining but the idea presented) as Eevee didn't learn Dig during the battle and didn't win with it. From the beginning of the episode we can see that May's Eevee learned Dig at some earlier undetermined point. At least that was what it looked like to me.

Can't the same be said for Squirtle and Ice Beam?

Squirtle learned Ice Beam (or revealed that it knew the move) in the episode BEFORE the Saffron Contest.

And Ed, I didn't understand how Brock lost points at the beginning of the right either. Oh well. At least Marshtomp got a fight in before its decay began.

[Blazken]

Suprise suprise, the one time I actually DISLIKE Haruka winning. Why? Because the writers and animators are so full of it.

Do explain how the hell Takeshi managed to lose points during his battle when he was WINNING? o_O Haruka's attacks were being countered and evaded with little effort and yet Takeshi somehow ended up losing points in the process until she makes a comeback.

Wtf?

Anyone else find it ridiculous how dense Musashi and Kojiro are to be standing around in their Rocket uniforms in Kanto? XP

The Moves need to Preform well

[HoennMaster]

so, Edward Elric has a good point

[Kabuto]

Suprise suprise, the one time I actually DISLIKE Haruka winning. Why? Because the writers and animators are so full of it.

Do explain how the hell Takeshi managed to lose points during his battle when he was WINNING? o_O Haruka's attacks were being countered and evaded with little effort and yet Takeshi somehow ended up losing points in the process until she makes a comeback.

Wtf?

Anyone else find it ridiculous how dense Musashi and Kojiro are to be standing around in their Rocket uniforms in Kanto? XP

Thank you! Its not just May's Eevee I hate. Its everything about her being lucky and having baby ubers.

[Squirtle_007]

Oh please, do you really tought that Takeshi would win when his only battle ability is making dinner?, I mean, if the thing is about finding incoherences, then why don´t you ask yourself since when Takeshi is a good battler if all what he does is .... well, dinner?

[MagicBox]

Oh please, do you really tought that Takeshi would win when his only battle ability is making dinner?, I mean, if the thing is about finding incoherences, then why don´t you ask yourself since when Takeshi is a good battler if all what he does is .... well, dinner?

What do you mean "Since when is he a good battler?" Last time I checked, he's been a good battler. Brock may battle far less than Ash and May, but he's a good strategist, and he knows how to use the environment he's battling in to his advantage. He's more than a cook, and you know it. As much as you deny his battling ability, Brock gave May a run for her money in this contest.

I agree with everyone who said that Brock's random loss of points was a dumb way to have May win. Sure, the "he lost points because his attacks weren't performed beautifully enough" argument is pretty good, but when was the last time we saw May get a point deduction when her attacks didn't look good enough?

[Squirtle_007]

What do you mean "Since when is he a good battler?" Last time I checked, he's been a good battler.

Do you mean that training battle with Satoshi when his Mudkip evolved?

He's more than a cook, and you know it. As much as you deny his battling ability, Brock gave May a run for her money in this contest.

Of course he is more than a cook, he is a nanny, a laundry men and a horny maid

I agree with everyone who said that Brock's random loss of points was a dumb way to have May win. Sure, the "he lost points because his attacks weren't performed beautifully enough" argument is pretty good, but when was the last time we saw May get a point deduction when her attacks didn't look good enough?

Will it be any kind of result that leaves everyone happy?, until the last contest, the universal complaint was the battles finishing by KO

Anyway, what would want Takeshi with a ribbon if he got the victory?

[DarkWobbuffet]

Do you mean that training battle with Satoshi when his Mudkip evolved?

That, and the previous battles he's been in, and the fact that he used to be a GYM LEADER! :O

Of course he is more than a cook, he is a nanny, a laundry men and a horny maid

...and a battler, and a breeder, and has a vast amount of knowledge regarding Pokemon, their lifestyles and their battle abilites...

Anyway, what would want Takeshi with a ribbon if he got the victory?

Bragging rights? The motivation to become a coordinator himself? The heart of that cute girl he was oogling over? There are lots of reasons.

Man, I may like Haruka, but the writers have just made things WAY too easy on her. Sure she lost one contest this arc, but it dosen't make up for all the scene-stealing moments her Pokemon have had during this saga.

[Chris]

Oh please, do you really tought that Takeshi would win when his only battle ability is making dinner?, I mean, if the thing is about finding incoherences, then why don´t you ask yourself since when Takeshi is a good battler if all what he does is .... well, dinner?

Someone sure missed out the fact that Takeshi actually did much better in his first Contest than Haruka did in hers. ;\

The Moves need to Preform well

Someone sure missed Numacraw performing its attacks well while battling. Everytime Evui attacked, Numacraw had an attack to counter or evaded the attack flawlessly. The way they had it counter Dig was well thought out, and much better than "Becareful! Watch out for it to pop up!" Shadow Ball was constantly blown up. As Evui attempted to charge, Mud Shot was used to cause it to lose its ground. Numacraw also hit Evui several times with a dead on Headbutt.

[Andromache]

Ugh, it's such a pet peeve of mine when people say Brock's not a good trainer. He's been complimented on the health and strength of his Pokemon a number of times, and he's also been shown on many occasions to have a strategic and pragmatic mind, which likely comes of his history as a GL and a surrogate parent to his siblings. I think Brock does train his Pokemon; it just isn't shown because he's not usually a focus character.

As for his being a cook and doing laundry, I personally would want a guy who can do those things. Cooks, especially, are sexy. Anyway, we saw how Ash, May, and Max were faring without Brock way back when, so Squirtle shouldn't be so quick to disparage Brock's roles. Without him, no one would remember to restock medicine or even bring food along. Heck, I think Max actually praised Brock's Forretress and his Explosion, so Brock must have trained it.

Brock had to grow up fast. It's amazing he's as good-natured and kind as he is. He's a survivor and I'm glad this episode finally showed Brock some respect.

[Geodude]

Numacraw also hit Evui several times with a dead on Headbutt.

Don't you mean Tackle? I don't remember Headbutt being used.