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Thread: Something that has always bugged me...

  1. #1
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    Default Something that has always bugged me...

    Why did the Drowzee willingly help Cassidy and Butch steal other pokemon in "Pikachu Revolts"? The smirk it always had leads me to believe it actually was enjoying being used for evil.

    Also, was it destroyed along with the tower when Togepi's Meternome caused the tower to explode? We never learn what happened to it, and me and my sis thought it was weird.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva
    Why did the Drowzee willingly help Cassidy and Butch steal other pokemon in "Pikachu Revolts"? The smirk it always had leads me to believe it actually was enjoying being used for evil.

    Also, was it destroyed along with the tower when Togepi's Meternome caused the tower to explode? We never learn what happened to it, and me and my sis thought it was weird.
    As stated in "The Island of Giant Pokemon", Pokemon are not evil-their trainers are. Dunno about your second question though. I don't recall seeing Drowzee with B+C, in their later appearances, so I think Drowzee was only meant to be a plot device.

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    Drowzee appeared to be a TR Pokemon. Not Butch/Cassidy's, but from the organization similar to Delibird.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicolo's Depression
    As stated in "The Island of Giant Pokemon", Pokemon are not evil-their trainers are.
    Why does everyone point to that when Meowth refuted it in the very next line?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani
    Why does everyone point to that when Meowth refuted it in the very next line?
    Yeah, seriously. There are times when even the Pokemon refuse to obey their trainers when they figure they're doing something wrong. It's all based on how the Pokemon was raised.

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    "Pokemon aren't bad" is a line that seems so typical of the early days of the franchise, when, for the most part, Pokemon didn't have much personality. Things were simpler: Pokemon just seemed like little more than loyalists who'd come out of their balls and complete a task, with high-level Pokemon (and Nyaasu) being an exception (obviously, Lizardon was showcasing that aspect of the games, though it wasn't so easily solved with collecting every badge). Since then, the anime has made better attempts to characterize the Pokemon themselves, and even in the games, they got a happiness meter, and later on, personalities. Since the franchise has established that the creatures are far from being 2D, one could assume they're capable of doing bad or good just as much as a human could. Being bad because their master's bad is nothing more than a matter of their loyalty.

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    Which could explain why Sceptile obeyed Ash when he was possessed by the king of Pokélantis, right?

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    Yes a Pokemon can be Evil if it wants 2 be!
    Think about all the pokemon that like and enjoy scaring people and killing stuff in the wild.
    A wild Absol would be evil since it likes disaster.
    Mewtwo was evil by choice and so was Charzard and the squirtle squad.
    Not 2 mention all the steelixs and onixes that have been evil bullys over the years.
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    I think the old saying "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." fits in well with the Drowzee scenario. Thanks to Team Rocket's technology, it was able to amplify it's psychic attacks tenfold, thus granting it the ability to hypnotise and control a seemingly endless slew of zombified minions.
    It's only understanable that once Drowzee got a taste of that power, it would want to keep hold it, regardless of the consequences. For all we know, that Drowzee could have been a pretty respectable creature before Butch & Cassidy's interference. Maybe being in human company can, under the right circumstances, change a pokémon for the worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaBulba
    Yes a Pokemon can be Evil if it wants 2 be!
    Think about all the pokemon that like and enjoy scaring people and killing stuff in the wild.
    Pokémon kill in the wild so they can survive. And the last time I checked, basic survival instincts, gruesome be damned, weren't considered to be traits tarred by the same brush as malicious intent.

    As for pokémon that enjoy scaring people? That's just them being mischievous. They don't intend to hurt or cause any long term harm, they're just getting a few kicks out of it and generally being playful.

    A wild Absol would be evil since it likes disaster.
    No...just no. Did you even read it's pokédex description?

    Mewtwo was evil by choice and so was Charzard and the squirtle squad.
    Mewtwo wasn't evil, he was just under the impression that humans and pokémon trained by them were a threat, due to past experiences with Team Rocket. If anything, he was just confused, and thought what he was doing was beneficial for the world.
    The Squirtle Squad wasn't evil either, they were just rebelious due to previous trainers treating them badly.
    And Charizard was just a jerk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani
    Why does everyone point to that when Meowth refuted it in the very next line?
    Because that's not the only line where this concept has been mentioned?

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    The thing is, though, that actions speak louder than words. A pokemon may say it can't be evil, yet we see Arbok, an evolution of Ekans, in a later episode refuse an order from Jessie because he thought it was wrong. That alone should be enough to discredit what he said. Where one may see a pokemon being extremely obedient, I see the pokemon being a coward for not doing the right thing, or being outright evil. Butch and Cassidy's Drowzee was evil through and through and I hope it was killed in that explosion.
    Team Rocket will pay for their crimes.

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    Maybe Drowzee got dumped by Butch and Cassidy for failing the assignment.

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    Meh, it's early writers, what do you expect? Drowzee probably ran off to join the circus.

    And to answer the seemingly-unrelated-but-actually-is-quite-related issue going on here, Pokemon do have opinions on things too, just like humans. Thus they decide their own path. It all depends on how good the trainer can co-operate in the end. This is probably why J & J's Pokemon don't do overly evil acts, they're so used to 'petty' evil that they grow to love their trainers in an alternative way.

    Or, maybe they're just trying to stop TR from winning. Either way works.

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    Yeah there were a couple times where Arbok and Weezing refused to attack. Darned if I can remember an example though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san
    "Pokemon aren't bad" is a line that seems so typical of the early days of the franchise, when, for the most part, Pokemon didn't have much personality. Things were simpler: Pokemon just seemed like little more than loyalists who'd come out of their balls and complete a task, with high-level Pokemon (and Nyaasu) being an exception (obviously, Lizardon was showcasing that aspect of the games, though it wasn't so easily solved with collecting every badge). Since then, the anime has made better attempts to characterize the Pokemon themselves, and even in the games, they got a happiness meter, and later on, personalities. Since the franchise has established that the creatures are far from being 2D, one could assume they're capable of doing bad or good just as much as a human could. Being bad because their master's bad is nothing more than a matter of their loyalty.
    tbh, while pokemon personality has improved by leaps and bounds since indigo, they're not at the point where they are equal to that of a full grown adult human. Their level of moral judgement is at most, the same level as a 5 year old child. They have a vauge idea on what's "right" and "wrong" in human society but rely on their human trainer for moral guidence. This is why pokemon are often so easily manipulated into doing the dirty work for evil teams. Even Mewtwo, who's probably the most developed of all pokemon in moral judgement was decieved by Giovanni in the intro of the first movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodude
    Yeah there were a couple times where Arbok and Weezing refused to attack. Darned if I can remember an example though.
    In A Chansey Operation Arbok and Weezing refused to attack Chansey since it helped them come back to health.

    But then again, they had a good reason to refuse obeying there.

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    Is'nt it obvious that Pokemon are like Humans or rather a living thing with a little more brain? and Pokemon depend by nature like you may find the kindest of humans and the evillest of a human and so is with Pokemon.
    And its the nature which made them like that! A pokemon is loyal and so it obays its master unless ofcourse in circumstances like Ash's Charizard and so would an evil vililans

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    Togepi killed Drowzee. XD

    Wow, one of my favourite episodes and I never thought of what happened to the Drowzee. Would have been cool if Butch and Cassidy had kept it and it had eventually become a Hypno. Would've come in handy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravy
    Pokémon kill in the wild so they can survive. And the last time I checked, basic survival instincts, gruesome be damned, weren't considered to be traits tarred by the same brush as malicious intent.
    I don't think Pokemon kill in the wild. Sure, maybe according to Pokedex entries, but those have little bearing on the anime. And sure, we may've seen some things in the past, like Ptera trying to devour Satoshi, but do remember we've had a lot more child-friendly writers in later years. In a Housou special, Ptera was revealed to eat some kind of fruit. Let's not forget how we've seen a snake live off of apples, even terrorizing small Pokemon to steal said apples but never eating the Pokemon themselves. It's as though every Pokemon's become a vegetarian now... hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Samehader eating kelp one of these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san
    In a Housou special, Ptera was revealed to eat some kind of fruit.

    Damn, that fruit-loving Aerodactyl always bugged me.
    Dangerous looking monsters with big teeth are eating fruits? Must be some pretty hard fruits then...

    But I think this change is understandable...you can´t show children a world in which little cute Pikachu, Caterpie or Clefable are eaten by big snakes.
    Especially if they are portayed as very human-like creatures.
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