Naruto: Post Timeskip Disscussion (Warning Intense Spoilers!)

[OrcaCity]

This was a pretty good chapter. It was nice to have some comic relief. Throughout the speech about the Uchihas, though, I was just sitting there thinking "No no no no quiet. You're making it worse."

[Platinum fan.]

Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

Really? I was always under the impression the coup would be hostile. I didn't think they would kill anyone but still force their... demands I guess to the leaders of Konoha. I guess I misread the Uchiha coup then.

[TsukiMirage]

True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

[Platinum fan.]

Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

[Ciccone]

True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment.

[gohan5]

Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

[7 tyranitars]

I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

[gohan5]

Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

Yeah I know that, I was just pointing out that while it makes sense it was one of those wtf plot twist moments in the manga.

[TsukiMirage]

But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment.

Itachi didn't murder his clan because negotiations weren't working, he murdered his clan because Danzo threatened Sasuke's life if he didn't. The negotiations were never said not to be working. Danzo and the Elders wanted to exterminate them, but not Hiruzen, and we already saw Danzo willing to exterminate a group that wasn't posing a threat (Yahiko and his followers who were working towards peace).

[Kamex]

If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail.

Why is it a flaw? One would expect that a plotline we had since the very beginning would eventually get explained.

I agree with Raiga, I think a story is much better off being selective with which parts of the plot/characters/world to go into detail about and which parts to leave open for interpretation/as a mystery. In my opinion it was way too convenient to have an arc full of every dead character with "unfinished business" to make amends or whatever with the living characters... it's very unrealistic and kind of takes away from the power of, for example, Gaara having had a strict, cold father being part of the influence that put him through everything he went through before finally changing, now that they're apparently on good terms.

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.

[Shadow Lucario]

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.

Well, they are still dead. They're just being summoned for the time being. It's not like Dragon Ball or Shaman King where one character can die and you'll just say, "Eh. They'll be back later."

[Joltik-Kid]

Itachi didn't murder his clan because negotiations weren't working, he murdered his clan because Danzo threatened Sasuke's life if he didn't. The negotiations were never said not to be working. Danzo and the Elders wanted to exterminate them, but not Hiruzen, and we already saw Danzo willing to exterminate a group that wasn't posing a threat (Yahiko and his followers who were working towards peace).

But from the sounds of this chapter, Hiruzen agreed to the slaughter so Itachi could be a Spy against the Atasuki. Plus the third even mentioned bloodshed would occur, which is why Itachi was willing to prevent the coup, because he put the Leaf first.

[Kamex]

Well, they are still dead. They're just being summoned for the time being. It's not like Dragon Ball or Shaman King where one character can die and you'll just say, "Eh. They'll be back later."

Well yeah, but I meant I'd rather they didn't return to the Earth as reanimated zombies (or in any other state for that matter), to keep the plot at least relatively realistic (ninjutsu and fantastical shounen elements aside of course), and for the other reasons I mentioned.

[LexSuicune]

I for one am SUPER excited about the prospect of learning more about the personality, power and story behind the Niidaime Hokage, Tobirama Senju.

My favorite of the entire Kages for sure, he's super badass, and his personality seems so stern, cunning and witty.

Loves it.

[TsukiMirage]

I agree with Raiga, I think a story is much better off being selective with which parts of the plot/characters/world to go into detail about and which parts to leave open for interpretation/as a mystery. In my opinion it was way too convenient to have an arc full of every dead character with "unfinished business" to make amends or whatever with the living characters... it's very unrealistic and kind of takes away from the power of, for example, Gaara having had a strict, cold father being part of the influence that put him through everything he went through before finally changing, now that they're apparently on good terms.

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.

I agree that some things could be left open to interpretation, but we're talking about a mystery that has been around since the very beginning. Given how much as been teased about what happen, it's nice to finally be getting the whole story. Plus the previous three Hokages really need the airtime, especially Tobirama.

But from the sounds of this chapter, Hiruzen agreed to the slaughter so Itachi could be a Spy against the Atasuki. Plus the third even mentioned bloodshed would occur, which is why Itachi was willing to prevent the coup, because he put the Leaf first.

More like he accepted what had been done. Danzo pretty much told Itachi that he would. Even Obito admitted that Sarutobi was against killing the clan. And preventing the coup could have been achieved without bloodshed. But that would have meant giving the clan power, and the Elders were clearly against such an idea.

[gohan5]

I agree that some things could be left open to interpretation, but we're talking about a mystery that has been around since the very beginning. Given how much as been teased about what happen, it's nice to finally be getting the whole story. Plus the previous three Hokages really need the airtime, especially Tobirama.

Yeah I like that some of these hazy questions are getting answered, because they're not small things. The only thing I don't like is how it was done with everyone being brought back to basically reveal a secret.

[TsukiMirage]

I agree. Why bring back the Hokages when we had the two Elders who could have explained all this? The only reason I can see is Kishi simply didn't want to end things with the four eternally damned within the Shinigami.

[gohan5]

I agree. Why bring back the Hokages when we had the two Elders who could have explained all this? The only reason I can see is Kishi simply didn't want to end things with the four eternally damned within the Shinigami.

Exactly, how much have the other elders done? I mean I don't know much more about them than that they were Sarutobi's teammates and tended to side with Danzo more than him. That's who we should be learning more about, but I guess maybe he couldn't think of anything.

[Ciccone]

Um, how would the elders know everything that happened since the founding of Konoha? They were just kids during the days that Hashirama and Tobirama were alive and at their peak. I highly doubt that they knew the things that Tobirama was talking about in this week's chapter, or the things that Hashirama will be talking about in the next chapter.

[gohan5]

Um, how would the elders know everything that happened since the founding of Konoha? They were just kids during the days that Hashirama and Tobirama were alive and at their peak. I highly doubt that they knew the things that Tobirama was talking about in this week's chapter, or the things that Hashirama will be talking about in the next chapter.

I'm not saying they know everything about Konoha, but they surely knew about Itachi and the Uchiha massacre. For the rest, well some secrets just die with the founders. I think someone mentioned flashbacks or things akin to Kakahshi Gaiden would be a good way to go for that.