Naruto: Post Timeskip Disscussion (Warning Intense Spoilers!)

[miles0624]

So Sharigan is the Naruto version of Darth Vadar. Nice

Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

I liked the interactions between the hokage. It was awesome. I mean, if you had been revived by this type of justu, and had free will, I would love to meet my decendants too. Fourth interacting with the first is nice.

I actually like the contrast between the first and second personality. I sure he is serious when he needs to be (as seen per flashbacks and when giving the control of the village to the third), but I find it awesome that he can have this comical side. Plus the way his brother talks to him is a lot like my younger brother talks to me. Reacts the same way I do too.

I give the chapter a pass. Love sasuke proclaiming he is not innocent. I was like "I knew Karin took his virginity." lol. ok, I'm out.

[Heldigunner1]

i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

[Shadow Lucario]

Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

No, the nickname God of Shinobi has only been given to three (I thought only two) people. Those people are the Sage of the Six Paths, Hashirama, and Hiruzen. The heads of the villages are just Kages.

i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

That was explained the chapter before this most recent one.

[Shneak]

Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

[Charmed]

Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

I don't think it's a mental illness per se though. I think the Uchiha just have very powerful emotions, which has been known for a while. I actually kind of like the fact that the Uchiha value love above all else and become crazed when they lose that. I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

[Platinum fan.]

If you love, you immediately also have the fear of losing said love, now.. in the words of Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. That is the path to the darkside!

Now add to that a predetermined genetic condition in which you actually have an overabundance of love, and a tendency to overreact when said love/caring goes away? I mean there's a reason why Darth Vader turned to who he was..



I'm betting that when Hashirama is talking, somebody will spoil the beans about the war.. And I don't care enough for Minato to think what he might have to say, at least nothing valuable for Sasuke's sake..



We always knew that he was kinda prejudice against the Uchiha, it was just common logic considering the times. I really like how he tried to hold up his convictions when Orochimaru told him.. "Nonsense!"

I really didn't like the first much in this.. I have to side with Suigetsu on this one.. How the heck can this be the guy that persuaded the Uchiha to stop fighting and join them (their sworn blood enemies) in the creation of a village.



That's not what's written at all.. It's extreme anguish, caused by overflowing caring emotions turning to hate = Triggering of Genetically specific Chakra => Sharingan. Meaning it's quite the opposite of love = sharingan. Breaking hearts, and reacting with aggressive emotions = Sharingan. It's basically Kishi trying to talk-no-jutsu is into believing that the Uchiha aren't really that bad at all and are caring and loving deep down inside.

Like I said: Darth Vader. And don't forget what happened to him!



Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-



As soon as I read 'inbreeding' I knew you were going to play the GoT-card.. xD

Oh? Is that how it works? I guess I was so bored with the thing I overlooked what the Sharingan was with love and junk. I admit that part bored me. At this point I don't really care what makes the Sharingan or what it is. I'm just sick to death of the thing.


As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

[Charmed]

As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

[gohan5]

I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

[Platinum fan.]

Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

For the record I do not count Itachi. Whatever the reason he still killed his entire clan including his mother who was suppose to be in on the whole takeover of Konoha. I wouldn't say she's 100% innocent either but she didn't seem evil at least. Shisui? I guess so. It's hard to remember every minor character in this series. I forgot Shisui even existed.

Edit: Itachi turned out not to be evil, and while he was trying to save the village it wasn't exactly innocent to kill his whole clan.

[TsukiMirage]

As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. All the others have been shown just like every other ninja. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

[Platinum fan.]

Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

True, but I'm talking about a Uchiha who had nothing to do with the supposed takeover/coup of Konoha or didn't get manipulated into evil. That was what I was saying about the Uchihas. They either kill eachother, betray their allies, or just want to take over. Evil is a point of view as is good. From the Uchiha's point of view the coup was seen as good to help their clan after all. But it seems every Uchiha is tainted with either being turned evil like with Obito and Sasuke or wanting a hostile take over like the other clans of the Uchiha. And then there's the wildcard Itachi. Itachi wasn't evil but even he had to make some rough choices like killing his family. I mean is there any Uchiha that wasn't involved in some dark story that involved bertrayl? It really is a cursed clan. I suppose Shisui as Ciccone mentioned.

[TsukiMirage]

Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

[Locormus]

I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

[7 tyranitars]

Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

Shisui didn't either.

[Locormus]

Shisui didn't either.

Irrelevant, he killed himself.. :P

[OrcaCity]

This was a pretty good chapter. It was nice to have some comic relief. Throughout the speech about the Uchihas, though, I was just sitting there thinking "No no no no quiet. You're making it worse."

[Platinum fan.]

Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

Really? I was always under the impression the coup would be hostile. I didn't think they would kill anyone but still force their... demands I guess to the leaders of Konoha. I guess I misread the Uchiha coup then.

[TsukiMirage]

True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

[Platinum fan.]

Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

[Charmed]

True, a coup in nature is hostile, but the Uchiha clan seem to be gambling that Konoha would cave in and return their political power. Both Obito and Itachi show they were in negotiations with Sarutobi, so it appears like they were willing to make a deal.

But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment.

[gohan5]

Ugh, I need to reread Naruto. I'm getting stuff mixed up. It's not my fault though! The stories, especially Uchiha related stuff gets changed/expanded on like everytime they are explained. One minute Itachi is killing his family in cold blood in front of Sasuke and it was a popular rumor that he did it to gain access to the Akatsuki, then we learned he did it to save the village, and later we even learned he got to talk with his parents before killing them. I admit I enjoyed Itachi's story but all the Naruto twist and turn stories can be hard to follow, especially if you only reread it once it's in volume form. I need a Naruto refreshment so bad DX

I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

[7 tyranitars]

I don't blame you at all, it does get quite confusing trying to piece all this stuff together. One of the biggest things for me about that was Sasuke first activated his Sharingan then. Not that it couldn't have happened, it was just one of those moments where the early manga didn't show that.

Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

[gohan5]

Actualy later it showed that he first activated his Sharingan when Itachi killed his clan, but he forgot.

Yeah I know that, I was just pointing out that while it makes sense it was one of those wtf plot twist moments in the manga.

[TsukiMirage]

But the reason why Itachi murdered his clan was because the negotiations weren't working and a compromise between the village and the clan couldn't be reached. I think it's apparent that the Uchiha were planning to overthrow the Hokage and start a civil war from the beginning (which would've been hostile), otherwise Hiruzen and the others wouldn't have planned to exterminate them. After reading the last chapter though, I kind of sympathize with the Uchiha since they just wanted equal treatment.

Itachi didn't murder his clan because negotiations weren't working, he murdered his clan because Danzo threatened Sasuke's life if he didn't. The negotiations were never said not to be working. Danzo and the Elders wanted to exterminate them, but not Hiruzen, and we already saw Danzo willing to exterminate a group that wasn't posing a threat (Yahiko and his followers who were working towards peace).

[Kamex]

If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail.

Why is it a flaw? One would expect that a plotline we had since the very beginning would eventually get explained.

I agree with Raiga, I think a story is much better off being selective with which parts of the plot/characters/world to go into detail about and which parts to leave open for interpretation/as a mystery. In my opinion it was way too convenient to have an arc full of every dead character with "unfinished business" to make amends or whatever with the living characters... it's very unrealistic and kind of takes away from the power of, for example, Gaara having had a strict, cold father being part of the influence that put him through everything he went through before finally changing, now that they're apparently on good terms.

That being said, I wouldn't mind flashbacks or side stories involving the characters of the past. I just generally like dead characters to stay dead.