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Thread: Naruto: The end is here.

  1. #21851
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        Spoiler:- Kamex;15815762:


    Little disappointed that the whole Madara/Izuna situation was skipped, but it was interesting to see that Tobirama was the one who killed Izuna. Surprising, since we were previously told that Izuna hadn't been killed til after Madara had taken his eyes. Anyway, gonna be neat to see how exactly Hashirama gets around Madara's choices. Nice chapter.
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  2. #21852
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    So I guess there's another plot hole given that Kishi once said Izuna died in battle after he transferred his eyes to his brother? Although I suppose he could have died before Madara went to fight Hashirama. Still, Madara wouldn't be able to completely blame the Senju for that. Anyway, it wasn't a great chapter, just sort of slow and average.

  3. #21853
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    This chapter seemed a bit plodding, but I'm interested to see how Hashirama bypasses Madara's so-called wishes.

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  4. #21854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Anyway, it wasn't a great chapter, just sort of slow and average.
    It was far faster then past chapters. We went from their childhood to the just before the alliance in their adulthood in just 20 pages.

    I'm happy we are finally moving faster. I really want to get back to the present already.
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  5. #21855
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    Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me.

        Spoiler:- TsukiMirage:


    Quote Originally Posted by TsuchiMirage
    Little disappointed that the whole Madara/Izuna situation was skipped
    I assume that's only due to Hashirama's lack of knowledge on the situation, perhaps Madara will explain it later.

  6. #21856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me.
    I think the problem was not only did this chapter seem rushed, compared to how we got three slow but nice chapters of Madara and Hashiram growing together, but several things contradicts previous information. Plus, Izuna got completely shafted. We didn't get to see him use his Sharingan, much less MS, and he died without showing anything. This was likely the last time we would have the possibility of seeing anything about him,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Well, not to over-stress my point, but just to amuse myself my answers would be: You're right about the Senju, but since the Uzumaki clan came from the same guy, there can be a technique that parallels the Rinnegan that is available to Naruto. Foreshadowing could have happened, if Kishi was subtle enough about it then neither of us are even considering it right now. Naruto could somehow gain Uchiha blood/cells (even if it sounds unlikely), and the other requirement isn't fully understood yet (if you're talking about the living-a-long-time thing). Whether Naruto has reached the zenith of the Rasengan is arguable. A more thorough Sage Mode/Cloak combo could still be made if Kishi's feeling creative enough. And I still think the Chakra Bomb is possible, albeit kind of lame and obviously unoriginal.

    But really though, the main thing that makes me think Naruto could still have another ability waiting for him, is that the war hasn't been won, and he needs a new trick to defeat Obito or Madara or Sasuke. If we really have gotten to the point of others coming to help "save the day" (perhaps including Sasuke), then I guess you're right, Naruto's pretty much done.
    Don't think a new doujutsu would be create just for Naruto, especially since his side is all about the body. Yeah, I won't deny subtle foreshadowing could have happen, but Kishi is rarely subtle. Then again, it's not as if he hasn't shown numerous times to be willing to retcon his own writing. I don't think it's all that arguable. The Rasengan was already at it's zenith shape-wise, and making it into the FRS was suppose to be ultra-special. Then we got the whole thing about the Bijuu Rasengan being what it was suppose to be. I suppose another combination with Sage Mode could happen, what with the whole Juubi using natural energy situation going on.

    Madara would really be the only one requiring something special to beat. We know how Obito could be beaten, speed and Kakashi, and Sasuke really hasn't gained anything that would make him a greater challenge then Madara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Not sure what you're getting at... they may be "excuses" for bad writing (I don't necessarily think so), but that doesn't mean those things won't be influential to the plot.
    Simply that the more we dive into the past, the more we see that the conflict between the two were so clear-cut. Without someone antagonizing them into it, like Madara or Danzo, the two clans can live in peace. Sasuke's revenge really has nothing to do with acting against the Senju.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    I assume that's only due to Hashirama's lack of knowledge on the situation, perhaps Madara will explain it later.
    I guess, though we had flashbacks in the past that showed us things the teller couldn't possibility have known, like Kushina's flashback of the Kyuubi attack.
    A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
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  7. #21857
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    I think the problem was not only did this chapter seem rushed, compared to how we got three slow but nice chapters of Madara and Hashiram growing together, but several things contradicts previous information. Plus, Izuna got completely shafted. We didn't get to see him use his Sharingan, much less MS, and he died without showing anything. This was likely the last time we would have the possibility of seeing anything about him,
    What contradicted previous information? Not that I don't believe you, just curious what you're referring to. I think there's still a chance that Madara will have his own set of flashbacks with Izuna, it didn't seem like Hashirama was too concerned about him as he was of Madara and the big picture. But Izuna's death added another chip to Madara's shoulder, so he might get more in depth with him later on. I feel like Kishi's been leaving too many holes in our understanding of everyone's history, so hopefully he's not nearly done with that.

    Don't think a new doujutsu would be create just for Naruto, especially since his side is all about the body.
    I wasn't trying to imply it would be a doujutsu, just a new technique in general... could be anything really. And although it's possible Kishi might retcon to do this, if I remember correctly he once said that he planned out an ending... so maybe he actually knows what he's doing? I dunno lol.

    Madara would really be the only one requiring something special to beat. We know how Obito could be beaten, speed and Kakashi, and Sasuke really hasn't gained anything that would make him a greater challenge then Madara.
    Kind of the same deal with Naruto: if Kishi wants to, he can give Sasuke a new technique, the Rinnegan, a unique power for his Mangekyou Sharingan, some random Deus ex Machina, etc., depending on how powerful he wants him to be. Especially if he wants to make the youngsters finally overtake the legends (whether that's possible is arguable, I know, but the writer has the final say).

    Simply that the more we dive into the past, the more we see that the conflict between the two were so clear-cut. Without someone antagonizing them into it, like Madara or Danzo, the two clans can live in peace. Sasuke's revenge really has nothing to do with acting against the Senju.
    Well, according to Obito it has everything to do with acting against the Senju. Maybe not at face value, but at least symbolically. Unless he was lying or crazy, there has to be more to it than what you're saying.

    All of this basically goes back to whether or not there will be an ultimate or penultimate Naruto vs. Sasuke battle... but only time will tell.
    Last edited by Kamex; 20th March 2013 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #21858
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    Last I checked, we didn't see izuna's face when he was killed. There is nothing to imply he still had his original eyes.

    I liked the chapter.

    You know what. If Hashirama was this strong, I want to know how he was killed.
    Last edited by miles0624; 20th March 2013 at 4:15 PM.

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    I heard this chapter wasn't so popular. I actually really liked it. It's the best part of this flashback so far. I'm curious to see what happens next chapter, but I'm sure it's nothing to big. Maybe they end the flashback. The Hashirama and Madara relationship is how I figured Naruto and Sasuke would be if they grew up and Sasuke stayed evil. I wonder if that was the point? Anyway this chapter felt more realistic then the peace keeping crap Naruto spews out. Overall I can't really complain about this chapter. I enjoyed it for what it was.
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  10. #21860
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    I didn't see what was so great about the chapter. I mean it covered more than recent chapters but most of the information was stuff we already knew about (except for the Tobirama injuring Izuna part. That was interesting and new). I don't like that Kishi is trying to make us feel bad for Madara though; he was the last true villain imo and now it seems like we're supposed to blame everyone but him for the way he turned out.

  11. #21861
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    Kind of interesting that Hashirama's current predicament is slightly similar to Itachi's. I assume Hashirama will have a solution or thoughtful words that will save him from Madara's ultimatum.

  12. #21862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Surprised so many of you thought the chapter was lackluster. The first half was a bit slow, but the second half was pretty full of plot if you ask me.
    I suppose so. Looking back, I think it was because the chapter was mostly explained by Hashirama's commentary and it used less flashback dialogue compared to the last few chapters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Kind of interesting that Hashirama's current predicament is slightly similar to Itachi's. I assume Hashirama will have a solution or thoughtful words that will save him from Madara's ultimatum.
    I didn't even notice the similarities until you posted. Remember who Hashirama is speaking to? It has to be intentional, so whatever the solution is to Hashirama's decision will have to influence Sasuke towards acting against Madara.
    Last edited by Shneak; 20th March 2013 at 10:31 PM.

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  13. #21863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    I didn't even notice the similarities until you posted. Remember who Hashirama is speaking to? It has to be intentional, so whatever the solution is to Hashirama's decision will have to influence Sasuke towards acting against Madara.
    That's true, I guess this has to mean something to Sasuke.

    Come to think of it, maybe Hashirama won't have a solution. Maybe he'll just willingly and selflessly give up his own life, and Madara will change his mind before it's too late. Then they'll have their truce and finally form their alliance. Just an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    That's true, I guess this has to mean something to Sasuke.

    Come to think of it, maybe Hashirama won't have a solution. Maybe he'll just willingly and selflessly give up his own life, and Madara will change his mind before it's too late. Then they'll have their truce and finally form their alliance. Just an idea.
    So Hashirama will basically be like Naruto and have no answers other than "have faith in me"? I'm hoping that the God of Shinobi is cooler than that.

  15. #21865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    So Hashirama will basically be like Naruto and have no answers other than "have faith in me"? I'm hoping that the God of Shinobi is cooler than that.
    Haha well not necessarily; if he gives up his own life then that means Hashirama would be giving in (selflessly, not pathetically) and Madara would not be having faith in him. But then suddenly Madara will decide against it and just have faith in Hashirama of his own free will. But you're right, that would be kind of cliche. I guess this is the typical turn of events, maybe something more interesting will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    What contradicted previous information? Not that I don't believe you, just curious what you're referring to. I think there's still a chance that Madara will have his own set of flashbacks with Izuna, it didn't seem like Hashirama was too concerned about him as he was of Madara and the big picture. But Izuna's death added another chip to Madara's shoulder, so he might get more in depth with him later on. I feel like Kishi's been leaving too many holes in our understanding of everyone's history, so hopefully he's not nearly done with that.
    We were previous told that/shown that Madara took Izuna's MS shortly after he began to go blind, with Izuna dying in battle afterwards while blind, and that the Senju sent a ceasefire sometime after that that Madara was forced to accept by the rest of his clan. This chapter has Izuna dying before Madara took his eyes and the ceasefire being offered before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    I wasn't trying to imply it would be a doujutsu, just a new technique in general... could be anything really. And although it's possible Kishi might retcon to do this, if I remember correctly he once said that he planned out an ending... so maybe he actually knows what he's doing? I dunno lol.
    Oh, well the verity of the Rinnegan would be hard to mimic with a single technique. Having an ending planned out doesn't exactly mean he would have the plot itself planned out. The authors of Inuyasha and Harry Potter had an ending planned out but admitted to making up the storyline as they went along.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Kind of the same deal with Naruto: if Kishi wants to, he can give Sasuke a new technique, the Rinnegan, a unique power for his Mangekyou Sharingan, some random Deus ex Machina, etc., depending on how powerful he wants him to be. Especially if he wants to make the youngsters finally overtake the legends (whether that's possible is arguable, I know, but the writer has the final say).
    Sasuke's due for a new technique, due to gaining EMS, but that seems about it. And unless it's a hell of a hax technique, it won't put him on Madara's level. Kishi seems to want it both ways, as apart from a few characters, the past generations have pretty much maintain being stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Well, according to Obito it has everything to do with acting against the Senju. Maybe not at face value, but at least symbolically. Unless he was lying or crazy, there has to be more to it than what you're saying.

    All of this basically goes back to whether or not there will be an ultimate or penultimate Naruto vs. Sasuke battle... but only time will tell.
    I would point out that neither Obito or Sasuke have given a care towards Tsunade, the last actually remaining Senju, and both of their actions have been about personal revenge. And in Sasuke's situation, his targets were people who opposed the standard Senju teachings.
    A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
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  17. #21867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Haha well not necessarily; if he gives up his own life then that means Hashirama would be giving in (selflessly, not pathetically) and Madara would not be having faith in him. But then suddenly Madara will decide against it and just have faith in Hashirama of his own free will. But you're right, that would be kind of cliche. I guess this is the typical turn of events, maybe something more interesting will happen.
    i like this and hope this happen i do i one idea but it's really out there. he kiills him self and that is way his borther develop the edo tensei but that would mean the frist was particaly immortal when he faced Madara. i hope it does't wind up that way

  18. #21868
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    Oh, well the verity of the Rinnegan would be hard to mimic with a single technique.
    Not necessarily a technique then, maybe a new type of power similar to doujutsu or senjutsu or a tailed beast, except something that came from the Sage's son. Or even if it's just one technique, maybe it can be the most hax technique ever that can be combined with all of his other jutsu and skills.

    I would point out that neither Obito or Sasuke have given a care towards Tsunade, the last actually remaining Senju, and both of their actions have been about personal revenge. And in Sasuke's situation, his targets were people who opposed the standard Senju teachings.
    Nevertheless, the Senju vs. Uchiha rivalry that stems from the Sage of the Six Paths' sons' rivalry plus the Will of Fire and Curse of Hatred have been implied to be the underlying reason Obito and Sasuke and Madara all have their issues, and why Naruto and Sasuke have a rivalry in the first place. Even if it's not immediately obvious, this at least means there's a chance that the actual climax of the story will involve these concepts.

    Quote Originally Posted by insanejames View Post
    i like this and hope this happen i do i one idea but it's really out there. he kiills him self and that is way his borther develop the edo tensei but that would mean the frist was particaly immortal when he faced Madara. i hope it does't wind up that way
    That would explain what influenced the Second Hokage's Edo Tensei, but it's a pretty wild theory. I'm not sure if a plot twist that crazy would fit in the plot nicely.

  19. #21869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Not necessarily a technique then, maybe a new type of power similar to doujutsu or senjutsu or a tailed beast, except something that came from the Sage's son. Or even if it's just one technique, maybe it can be the most hax technique ever that can be combined with all of his other jutsu and skills.
    He's already got the body from the Rikudou Sennin, the only other things that got past down were the Sharingan and Mokuton. Well I guess the chakra chains could have been pasted down too, no much have been said about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Nevertheless, the Senju vs. Uchiha rivalry that stems from the Sage of the Six Paths' sons' rivalry plus the Will of Fire and Curse of Hatred have been implied to be the underlying reason Obito and Sasuke and Madara all have their issues, and why Naruto and Sasuke have a rivalry in the first place. Even if it's not immediately obvious, this at least means there's a chance that the actual climax of the story will involve these concepts.
    Will of Fire would apply to any ninja of Konoha, including the Uchiha, and the Curse of Hatred appears to be something Obito made up. The original rivalry over peace could be made to apply to Madara and Obito, what with their delusional attempt to bring peace, but not really Sasuke as he cares nothing about anything outside his personal revenge.
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  20. #21870
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    The more I read through this backstory, the more demonized the Second Hokage seems to become.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    The more I read through this backstory, the more demonized the Second Hokage seems to become.
    I actually like it. Kishi is showing us how war affects different people. (Hashirama vs tobirama.) It's nice to have something different.

  22. #21872
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    I Agree, It gives us an Insight into the True nature of the Hokage's. Who have always seemed these powerful, perfect characters.

  23. #21873
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    I'm surprised these flashbacks aren't over yet. I liked learning more about how Konoha was founded even though we sort of knew all the big stuff already. I can't help but wonder how the village would have turned out if Madara became Hokage instead of Hashirama though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    I'm surprised these flashbacks aren't over yet. I liked learning more about how Konoha was founded even though we sort of knew all the big stuff already. I can't help but wonder how the village would have turned out if Madara became Hokage instead of Hashirama though.
    Probably not as good, judging by Madara's 'true dream'..

    The ef was that? Madara likes being in a situation where he needs to fight apparently, and 'joining hands' was just a pussyfoot way of doing it, and hence he doesn't want to be pussyfooting anymore, and therefore wants go at Hashirama's jugular.. RIIIGHT... o.0
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  25. #21875
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    If I got the chapter right... Madara turned "evil" because things didn't go his way. Wasn't gonna be head leader, was hated by his best friends brother, and felt his own clan didn't respect him... why is it that villains never get a good reason
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