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Thread: Naruto: The end is here.

  1. #25251
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    But as said, it was all about the real Madara's feats, meaning they apply to the one who is Madara. And there was quite a few implications that Obito wasn't actually Madara, which is why some people were making the Izuna argument. That became even more clear during the current arc when Kabuto got introduced.

    It was stupid, because not only could the Kyuubi's chakra not be used until after all the other Bijuus were sealed, but instead of getting the Kyuubi and getting out of there, Obito stuck around and ended up losing it. And Obito starting this war was stupid. Starting a war didn't give him any advantage or help his plan, but the opposite, it allowed the Alliance to put up a much greater defense then they would have and gave them a reason to put aside all their rivalries.

    Right, because the name Madara was mentioned long before either of them appeared. I would say that Nagatoand Danzo were built up more as a final villain then Obito, who really didn't have anything going for him in that department. And I have to disagree about Madara being generic, or less of a final villain then Obito. Obito was barely calling any shots. Originally it was Nagato calling the shots and then Kabuto once he appeared, which then went onto Madara. Same with getting the ball rolling.

    Character-wise, Madara was far more fitting. His reasons for being how he was was due to large clear issues, as oppose to Obito's reason the death of a girl he liked. Madara is partially responsible for the state of the current era, it was him and Hashirama who created the whole system. And Madara was only not working behind the scenes for current generation.
    I didn't say Obito as a character was better final villain material then Madara. I said Obito as Fake Madara was better then real Madara. Fakedara being Obito was one of the stupidest things done in this manga. But as Fakedara he was far more interesting then real Madara ever was. Madara is a generic boring overlord villain that you'd find in DBZ. Fakedara would have declared war whether he had Kyuubi or not, because it's all about control. He needed Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails. The war was necessary. Did he make mistakes? Of course. But so did every other villain in this entire series. Orochimaru made several mistakes but he's praised as a great villain. If the villains don't make mistakes then they win and the story for the good guys is over. The only reason the real Madara comes off as perfect is because he was introduced so late in the series everything is already done. All he needs to do is show off his BS overlord self and present a threat. And that's all he does.


    Every single action made was done by Obito in Madara's name. You said Nagato and Danzo got better build up as final villains? I'd agreed if it wasn't for the fact that Obito revealed himself as the leader of Akatsuki the same chapter we see Nagato/Pain's face revealed. So you already knew Pain wasn't going to be the final villain regardless of how good of a final villain he would have been. Danzo never came off as final villain material to me. He always seemed like a side villain. And while it's shocking on how quickly his reign of terror was, he's barely relevant to the story anymore.
    Every buildup from Madara's name was put on Obito as Fakedara. Then when it's war time after every plan is near finished and complete, Kabutomaru unveils generic super boss Madara. He basically takes every buildup plot that was put on Fakedara and uses on himself.

    The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together.
    Last edited by Platinum fan.; 17th June 2014 at 10:24 PM.
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  2. #25252
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    Oh no!

    "That technique!"

    I wonder what nonsense they'll pull out this time.

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    Pretty decent chapter this week. It was nice getting more backstory on Black Zetsu. Also, strangely enough, I thought it was kind of touching that Naruto and Sasuke reminded Kaguya of her sons.

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    This chapter would have made a lovely Mother's Day chapter. Overall it just explains Black Zetsu, what he is, what he's done, how he basically used everyone up to this point. And I mean everyone. I'm glad they addressed how Kabutomaru got Trolldara's body. Never would have thought Kabutomaru of all people would be a pawn to someone else. He's not the most powerful, but he certainly ranks up their as the craftiest villain. So in a nutshell all this was to revive Kaguya. According to Black Zetsu the war was successful. Well Black Zetsu, if you truly believe it was then you keep telling yourself that. No real action this chapter and once again Obito's lifeless body is saved. What will they do with it next? A okay chapter. Apparently Naruto and Sasuke have some new hax jutsu they can use. The Super Freak Club have no limits. But not a bad chapter.


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  5. #25255
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    This chapter got me confused about Madara: he uses Izanagi to cheat death and then awakens the Rinnegan, thus curing his right eye of blindness? And did Kabuto harvest the DNA from his Shadow Clone for the Edo Tensei, or did he used his real body's? Uhh, the maelstrom of question...s o_o

    I'm getting the funky feeling Team 7 is going to make use of Obito's Sharingan at some point.
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    Ugh...Crazy crying mommy.

    Couldn't we have just finished off Madara to call it a day? Its really hard for me to care about Kaguya.

    Although the exposition from Black Zetsu was nice, I guess.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 18th June 2014 at 5:17 PM.


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    Black Zetsu's backstory was good I guess. At least we know more about his identity. Anyway, will Naruto use the old "that jutsu" or a new one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    Oh no!

    "That technique!"

    I wonder what nonsense they'll pull out this time.
    Naruto___Fusion___HAAA_by_Anbu_Vege.jpg
    this is pretty much what im expecting that technique to be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    Black Zetsu's backstory was good I guess. At least we know more about his identity. Anyway, will Naruto use the old "that jutsu" or a new one?
    I remember at the start of part 2 Jiraiya was all like "Naruto don't use that jutsu." Did they ever confirm what it was? Was it turning into the four tailed Kyuubi? Some kind of Rasengan? I'm not sure if "that jutsu" was answered. If it was let me know what it was. I hate when they go "that jutsu" and then don't tell you what it is. I remember when part 2 started I didn't think they'd ever show use what Sasuke's hidden jutsu was. Then they unveil as the Thunder Clap and he never uses it ever again. Why use that when you can spam MS?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I remember at the start of part 2 Jiraiya was all like "Naruto don't use that jutsu." Did they ever confirm what it was? Was it turning into the four tailed Kyuubi? Some kind of Rasengan? I'm not sure if "that jutsu" was answered. If it was let me know what it was. I hate when they go "that jutsu" and then don't tell you what it is. I remember when part 2 started I didn't think they'd ever show use what Sasuke's hidden jutsu was. Then they unveil as the Thunder Clap and he never uses it ever again. Why use that when you can spam MS?
    Jiraiya also mentioned "that jutsu" in Amegakure before he fought Pain, but it wasn't expanded on. I really hope it was all foreshadowing from Kishi for this moment tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    Jiraiya also mentioned "that jutsu" in Amegakure before he fought Pain, but it wasn't expanded on. I really hope it was all foreshadowing from Kishi for this moment tbh.
    It will beg the question why we haven't seen this jutsu yet though. I mean, Naruto's been in some tough fights. I would think during the Pain Invasion arc, Naruto would use everything in his power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    It will beg the question why we haven't seen this jutsu yet though. I mean, Naruto's been in some tough fights. I would think during the Pain Invasion arc, Naruto would use everything in his power.
    Maybe because Kishi didn't think it was necessary to show "that jutsu" until around the manga's finale against the last major villain?

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    So everything bad in this manga was caused because of mommy issues? Hope Zetsu never meets Gendo.
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  14. #25264
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    I'm kind of confused about how Madara got the Rinnegan in both eyes when one of them had gone blind because of Izanagi. Or does it not matter if an eye is damaged?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I'm kind of confused about how Madara got the Rinnegan in both eyes when one of them had gone blind because of Izanagi. Or does it not matter if an eye is damaged?
    Maybe getting Rinnegan restores sight in that eye if it has gone blind?
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    Did not like this chapter. The exposition was overbearing and I'm not a fan of Black Zetsu controlling everything now.

    Nagato > Obito > Madara > Zetsu > Kaguya

    When will it end?

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    I've been waiting for Zetsu to get his glory, he's been getting little by little but the chapter he stabbed Madara in the back(Literally and figuratively, so it hurts in two ways for him) and the recent chapter just boosted it to the top. Black Zetsu is basically the cause of everything and Kaguya is just going to get done in by him in the end, it is the way of Zetsu.

    Zetsu being my favorite character, I am loving all of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Did not like this chapter. The exposition was overbearing and I'm not a fan of Black Zetsu controlling everything now.

    Nagato > Obito > Madara > Zetsu > Kaguya

    When will it end?
    It's all a system of control. Pretty soon it will be revealed that Kaguya is under the influence of the fruit she ate, that's been sitting in her stomach for all these years and that it is the true mastermind behind it all. Naruto and Sasuke vs evil Shinju fruit. It's the true final of Naruto. Because clearly it's that fruits fault.
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  19. #25269
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    This is all Chojuro's fault btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together.
    Was he really pushed aside tho? His actions as the fake were still relevant to his story, and he still had major conflict the characters. He even usurped Madara himself by becoming the Juubi Jin. Obito was the main antagonist for most of the war, fake Madara or otherwise. Real Madara didn't take center stage until after both the fake mystery and Obito were thoroughly dealt with.

    And I seriously doubt fake was meant to be legit anyway. I mean his face was constantly hidden from the audience, but then we see what the real Madara looks like in flashbacks. That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, lol. Plus he was supposed to be dead. I think the identity was always questionable.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 20th June 2014 at 8:46 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Empoleon View Post
    This is all Chojuro's fault btw.



    Was he really pushed aside tho? His actions as the fake were still relevant to his story, and he still had major conflict the characters. He even usurped Madara himself by becoming the Juubi Jin. Obito was the main antagonist for most of the war, fake Madara or otherwise. Real Madara didn't take center stage until after both the fake mystery and Obito were thoroughly dealt with.

    And I seriously doubt fake was meant to be legit anyway. I mean his face was constantly hidden from the audience, but then we see what the real Madara looks like in flashbacks. That really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, lol. Plus he was supposed to be dead. I think the identity was always questionable.
    He kinda was. Yeah, he did get a final fight as Six Paths Obito, but before he got that power and after his mask was taken off, he felt very secondary. Madara was always the stronger of the two anyway, ability wise. Whether or not the fake was meant to be legit or not is up in the air. Kishi really didn't elude to another Madara running around as Fakedara usually always spoke as himself as if he was Madara. There's only one real time he teases that he's not. He even teased that by gaining all the tailed beast it would somehow make him "whole" I assumed that meant regaining his powers or something like that. So in that sense wearing the mask made some kind of sense if he's not at full power. This is all thrown out the window of course when Fakedara is revealed to be a fake.

    And the whole point I'm trying to make, but everyone just wants to jump on me and prove me wrong, is that people are complaining that who they thought was going to be the final villain was switched with another, when this is not the first time Kishi did it. Tobi/Obito/fake Madara whoever you want to call him, was being built as the final villain of the war up until the real Madara got summoned and he became the final villain of the war and now it's Kaguya. That's all I'm really trying to say. Kishi's changed his main villains twice. Kaguya just doesn't have Madara's name. But I guess that name makes all the difference, yes?
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    I wouldn't even be surprised if the devil fruit that Kaguya ate was behind all of this tbh. It would be ridiculous though, but then again this whole arc was ridiculous imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    He kinda was. Yeah, he did get a final fight as Six Paths Obito, but before he got that power and after his mask was taken off, he felt very secondary. Madara was always the stronger of the two anyway, ability wise. Whether or not the fake was meant to be legit or not is up in the air. Kishi really didn't elude to another Madara running around as Fakedara usually always spoke as himself as if he was Madara. There's only one real time he teases that he's not. He even teased that by gaining all the tailed beast it would somehow make him "whole" I assumed that meant regaining his powers or something like that. So in that sense wearing the mask made some kind of sense if he's not at full power. This is all thrown out the window of course when Fakedara is revealed to be a fake.

    And the whole point I'm trying to make, but everyone just wants to jump on me and prove me wrong, is that people are complaining that who they thought was going to be the final villain was switched with another, when this is not the first time Kishi did it. Tobi/Obito/fake Madara whoever you want to call him, was being built as the final villain of the war up until the real Madara got summoned and he became the final villain of the war and now it's Kaguya. That's all I'm really trying to say. Kishi's changed his main villains twice. Kaguya just doesn't have Madara's name. But I guess that name makes all the difference, yes?
    Yeah I get what you mean, though I still thought Obito's placement was done fairly enough. Madara had more "prestige", but out of focus for a good minute since he wasn't fighting the main characters until further down.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 21st June 2014 at 1:56 AM.


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  23. #25273
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    Yeah @Platinum Fan I was always intrigued by that statement that Jiraiya made. If they are really talking about that technique, then I actually really want to see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I didn't say Obito as a character was better final villain material then Madara. I said Obito as Fake Madara was better then real Madara. Fakedara being Obito was one of the stupidest things done in this manga. But as Fakedara he was far more interesting then real Madara ever was. Madara is a generic boring overlord villain that you'd find in DBZ. Fakedara would have declared war whether he had Kyuubi or not, because it's all about control. He needed Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails. The war was necessary. Did he make mistakes? Of course. But so did every other villain in this entire series. Orochimaru made several mistakes but he's praised as a great villain. If the villains don't make mistakes then they win and the story for the good guys is over. The only reason the real Madara comes off as perfect is because he was introduced so late in the series everything is already done. All he needs to do is show off his BS overlord self and present a threat. And that's all he does.
    What was interesting about him aside from the identity mystery? I know some people enjoyed the comical personality, but besides that he was like some Saturday morning villain, crackling in the background but not actually doing anything. Madara at least had his trolling and was enjoyable to watch in battle, and at least there was a reason he kept going easy on everyone else. But the war wasn't necessary. He didn't need the war to complete his plan, and he didn't need it to actually get his hands on the final two Bijuus. Heck, he had Kisame let Kirabi get away for no reason (he had Kisame go undercover to spy on the preparation of war so that he could win the war and get the two Bijuus, but to do so he allowed one of those Bijuus to get away because... ). I'm not even gonna bring up how his ability meant that he could have personally grabbed them without anyone stopping him well before that point. Orochimaru is considered a great villain because he was shown as an actual threat and only failing against the best. Madara comes off as "prefect" because he's good at turning a bad situation around, that and his trolling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Every single action made was done by Obito in Madara's name. You said Nagato and Danzo got better build up as final villains? I'd agreed if it wasn't for the fact that Obito revealed himself as the leader of Akatsuki the same chapter we see Nagato/Pain's face revealed. So you already knew Pain wasn't going to be the final villain regardless of how good of a final villain he would have been. Danzo never came off as final villain material to me. He always seemed like a side villain. And while it's shocking on how quickly his reign of terror was, he's barely relevant to the story anymore.
    Every buildup from Madara's name was put on Obito as Fakedara. Then when it's war time after every plan is near finished and complete, Kabutomaru unveils generic super boss Madara. He basically takes every buildup plot that was put on Fakedara and uses on himself.
    What actions? The only actions Obito took in his name was the Uchiha massacre and the war. And even after the reveal, it was still Nagato taking command and posing as the threat. Same with Danzo. Unlike Obito, they were portrayed as actual threats. Need I point out that the plan got nearly completed by Nagato, and the moment he was taken out of the picture, the plan didn't proceed by much til the real Madara took command.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    The Izuna and who Tobi really was stuff, barely started until we learned Madara wasn't Madara. Obito as Fakedara still got build up as the final villain until then. No matter what argument is said, the villain Kishi was grooming as the final villain since after Deidara's death was scrapped and pushed aside for another, that just took all the stories and myths they were putting on Obito as Fakedara and put it on him, and this guy's been dead all the while Obito worked behind the scenes getting things together.
    It started right after the fight between Itachi and Sasuke. What you are claiming is true, but not for Obito. That's the case for Nagato, who was groomed as the final villain since the end of Part One and the one who actually did most of the work after the real Madara died. All Obito has ever done since his introduction as the villain has been to use the efforts of others for himself, which would be interesting in it's own way if it was actually meant to be taken that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    What was interesting about him aside from the identity mystery? I know some people enjoyed the comical personality, but besides that he was like some Saturday morning villain, crackling in the background but not actually doing anything. Madara at least had his trolling and was enjoyable to watch in battle, and at least there was a reason he kept going easy on everyone else. But the war wasn't necessary. He didn't need the war to complete his plan, and he didn't need it to actually get his hands on the final two Bijuus. Heck, he had Kisame let Kirabi get away for no reason (he had Kisame go undercover to spy on the preparation of war so that he could win the war and get the two Bijuus, but to do so he allowed one of those Bijuus to get away because... ). I'm not even gonna bring up how his ability meant that he could have personally grabbed them without anyone stopping him well before that point. Orochimaru is considered a great villain because he was shown as an actual threat and only failing against the best. Madara comes off as "prefect" because he's good at turning a bad situation around, that and his trolling.

    What actions? The only actions Obito took in his name was the Uchiha massacre and the war. And even after the reveal, it was still Nagato taking command and posing as the threat. Same with Danzo. Unlike Obito, they were portrayed as actual threats. Need I point out that the plan got nearly completed by Nagato, and the moment he was taken out of the picture, the plan didn't proceed by much til the real Madara took command.

    It started right after the fight between Itachi and Sasuke. What you are claiming is true, but not for Obito. That's the case for Nagato, who was groomed as the final villain since the end of Part One and the one who actually did most of the work after the real Madara died. All Obito has ever done since his introduction as the villain has been to use the efforts of others for himself, which would be interesting in it's own way if it was actually meant to be taken that way.
    What actions? Well there's being Pain/Nagato's boss and commanding him from the shadows, starting the war, gaining the alliance of Sasuke and through him and his team got Eight-Tails leg and got rid of Danzo. Even if Killer Bee escaped, he got the Eight-Tail leg, which proved to be useful in the end.

    If you found Nagato, Danzo, Orochimaru, and real Madara better villains then Obito as fake Madara, then good for you. Heck, I think Pain would have been a great series final villain. Better then any of the emo Uchihas. But it really doesn't effect my argument at all, which is Obito as Fakedara was being built up as the main/final villain of the war. Unlike Pain/Nagato, Obito took orders from nobody and he was the one calling all the shots. And even with Kabutomaru's advantage over Obito, he still was cautious about their partnership. Everything about Madara's legacy was put on Obito until the real Madara got summoned. And by the time real Madara came everything was done. All that was left was to kill the enemy and that's really all Madara's done. Battle. Naruto and friends don't even know the real Madara, because he's so last minute. He's just a generic villain that popped up that they have to put down because he wants to take over the world. At least with Obito, he made it personal with Naruto and crew by gaining Sasuke on his side, and literally throwing it in Team Seven's face.


    I'm trying not to make this long, because I'm just repeating myself. Up until Madara got summoned, Obito was built as Madara and the series main villain. Whether you find another villain more interesting or powerful, doesn't matter because Obito was still being built as the villain to take down to stop the war. All that changed when Madara came, and so Kishi took the main villain plot off Obito and put it on Madara. Now it's on Kaguya. And once again, I don't see why people should complain about Kaguya being the series final villain, when she's doing to Madara what he did to Obito as the fake Madara. That's my entire argument and nothing else matters.
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