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Thread: Naruto: The end is here.

  1. #25476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Sakura shouldn't get another power up in my opinion. It's obvious that Kishimoto never intended to allow her to keep up with Naruto and Sasuke in terms of plot relevance (not even slightly), so I have no idea why he continues his struggle to get her to keep up with them in terms of skill and power. Honestly, Sakura has even less depth and significance than a lot of the more minor characters because her clan (if Haruno is one) has no story background and she does little to distinguish herself amongst her peers and teachers, so her character feels like dead weight to me... As much as I wish she was just as important and interesting as the rest of team 7, she totally isn't...

    Hence she shouldn't have a power up (and would probably be better off attached to the tree right now). Sorry Sakura.
    It feels like Kishimoto wanted to do something big with Sakura, so they have her train with Tsunade like Naruto had Jiraiya and Sasuke had Orochimaru at the end of Part 1. Then Part 2 comes along and she gets a great showing in the Sasori fight and then Kishimoto decides he doesn't want to use Sakura beyond this point and just focuses on Sasuke and Naruto. I always thought that was a mistake not building Sakura along with them. Kishimoto must have felt that too and thus we get this BS forehead powerup, which has to rank up as one of the most forced powerups in the series. Sakura deserved better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    It feels like Kishimoto wanted to do something big with Sakura, so they have her train with Tsunade like Naruto had Jiraiya and Sasuke had Orochimaru at the end of Part 1. Then Part 2 comes along and she gets a great showing in the Sasori fight and then Kishimoto decides he doesn't want to use Sakura beyond this point and just focuses on Sasuke and Naruto. I always thought that was a mistake not building Sakura along with them. Kishimoto must have felt that too and thus we get this BS forehead powerup, which has to rank up as one of the most forced powerups in the series. Sakura deserved better.
    Yes, but even in Part 1, Sakura trailed behind from the very start, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry overshadowed her completely. To me it felt like what he did with their parallel Sensei-student training during the time skip was mostly just an attempt to stick to the pattern he had since the beginning with Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura being a team and the "main characters". He was able to ride off of the steam he created from the time skip during the Sasori battle, but Sakura stopped mattering after that because she never truly mattered in the story. Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha, light and dark, sun and moon, all these things mattered and Sakura had no place in it. Not to mention the way kunoichi are treated in the plot in general. It's no wonder Sakura never really had a chance.

    And to be honest, maybe I'm being unfair here but I didn't personally care much for her Sasori battle either. Sakura just became a Tsunade-clone. Who cares? Plenty of other kunoichi wanted to be like Tsunade because she was an awesome female ninja (but in reality, it was because she was the only female ninja to stand out and be treated relatively well by Kishimoto). You're right that the forehead powerup was BS. Because it came out of nowhere, made little difference (other than helping Obito save Sasuke, who actually matters lol), and was just another Tsunade-ism.

    Meh, I don't think there's any way to save Sakura now, she was doomed from the beginning! Only Tenten has less background detail and personality than her. I care more about Hinata really (although she's yet another cheerleader in many ways).

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    Speaking of Ten Ten..

    Lol what ever happened to her using those God weapons? When she got mummified they were still next to her. Was that just a scrapped plot or?

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    What an asspull. As soon as Obito started telling Rin he was going back I dreaded reading further thinking he would somehow come back to life. The alternative is a tiny bit less annoying. Apparently characters can only be relevant and useful if they have eye hax and can use Susanoo. We lost one Uchiha and got another one.

    I want to know what's up with Kaguya now though. If she's just losing control then we've seen it all before.

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    I kind of hope that Kaguya does stay in that mutated bestial form and completely loses control; I couldn't take her seriously the way she looked before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Yes, but even in Part 1, Sakura trailed behind from the very start, and Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry overshadowed her completely. To me it felt like what he did with their parallel Sensei-student training during the time skip was mostly just an attempt to stick to the pattern he had since the beginning with Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura being a team and the "main characters". He was able to ride off of the steam he created from the time skip during the Sasori battle, but Sakura stopped mattering after that because she never truly mattered in the story. Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha, light and dark, sun and moon, all these things mattered and Sakura had no place in it. Not to mention the way kunoichi are treated in the plot in general. It's no wonder Sakura never really had a chance.

    And to be honest, maybe I'm being unfair here but I didn't personally care much for her Sasori battle either. Sakura just became a Tsunade-clone. Who cares? Plenty of other kunoichi wanted to be like Tsunade because she was an awesome female ninja (but in reality, it was because she was the only female ninja to stand out and be treated relatively well by Kishimoto). You're right that the forehead powerup was BS. Because it came out of nowhere, made little difference (other than helping Obito save Sasuke, who actually matters lol), and was just another Tsunade-ism.

    Meh, I don't think there's any way to save Sakura now, she was doomed from the beginning! Only Tenten has less background detail and personality than her. I care more about Hinata really (although she's yet another cheerleader in many ways).
    While you're not wrong, I really think that was the point of Sakura in Part 1; her struggle was in trying to become relevant after even Naruto started overtaking her. Her being overshadowed felt like it was the entire point, seeing as she had little to no agenda for herself as a Ninja at that point.

    And while she was a Tsunade clone at the start of Part 2, again, that made sense; she had little in the way of skills to build on like Naruto and Sasuke did, after all. This could have changed over time had she continued to grow alongside the other two, but that never happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    While you're not wrong, I really think that was the point of Sakura in Part 1; her struggle was in trying to become relevant after even Naruto started overtaking her. Her being overshadowed felt like it was the entire point, seeing as she had little to no agenda for herself as a Ninja at that point.

    And while she was a Tsunade clone at the start of Part 2, again, that made sense; she had little in the way of skills to build on like Naruto and Sasuke did, after all. This could have changed over time had she continued to grow alongside the other two, but that never happened.
    Well if Sakura's whole purpose in the story is to try to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke, that just makes her seem like a lame character to me. And it came off more like Kishimoto unintentionally left Sakura in her teammates' dust because she's an extremely one-dimensional character and he had no choice but to try and bring her back up to speed (unsuccessfully I might add) by making her imitate Tsunade. But even if he did this intentionally, isn't Naruto supposed to be the underdog that we all wanted to see catch up to Sasuke through sheer hard work and eventually get the village's respect? And he did that quite impressively I'd say. On the other hand, Sakura's struggle seems entirely contrived and pointless.

    Just my opinion though! Haha.

  8. #25483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Well if Sakura's whole purpose in the story is to try to catch up with Naruto and Sasuke, that just makes her seem like a lame character to me. And it came off more like Kishimoto unintentionally left Sakura in her teammates' dust because she's an extremely one-dimensional character and he had no choice but to try and bring her back up to speed (unsuccessfully I might add) by making her imitate Tsunade. But even if he did this intentionally, isn't Naruto supposed to be the underdog that we all wanted to see catch up to Sasuke through sheer hard work and eventually get the village's respect? And he did that quite impressively I'd say. On the other hand, Sakura's struggle seems entirely contrived and pointless.

    Just my opinion though! Haha.
    Whether it would have made her a worthwhile character or not is, like you said, purely up to you. I was just arguing the claim that her development lacked a point even during Part 1, because it was really only after the Sasori fight that she truly fell flat.

  9. #25484
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    Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

    Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...
    Last edited by besho; 7th August 2014 at 4:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by besho View Post
    Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

    Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...
    To be fair, Obito's shenanigans here seemed spiritual rather than physical (evidenced by him and Kakashi appearing as they did during the Gaiden). But yeah, stupid all the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by besho View Post
    Why can't people stay dead in this manga? I mean really Obito is dead and he was able to use his Sharingan to go back to the real world and help Kakashi? Yeah makes perfect sense :P .. I sound like one of the complainer types, but this really was stupid.

    Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...
    Obito didn't come back to life. He gave his Chakra and Sharingan too Kakashi. He's still dead though. This should have been done in the last chapter rather then this one. And they explained the Chakra time and space thing already. So it's not something they just pulled. Combine that with Obito's eyes always being able to warp through dimensions it actually fits better then most would give credit for. It's still a unneeded powerup for Kakashi though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    To be fair, Obito's shenanigans here seemed spiritual rather than physical (evidenced by him and Kakashi appearing as they did during the Gaiden). But yeah, stupid all the same.
    Sharinganingans.

    And that's the problem. Haven't eye transplants always shown to be physical?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    Sharinganingans.

    And that's the problem. Haven't eye transplants always shown to be physical?
    Oh, I know; and don't get me wrong, I wasn't defending it. I was just pointing out that Obito didn't literally come back from the dead, necessarily (though the whole thing probably would have made more sense if he had, whole other host of problems be damned).

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    Quote Originally Posted by besho View Post
    Anyway, At least Kakashi finally became useful again thanks to Obito. Kakashi being the 6th Hokage and Naruto the 7th? another proof that the manga won't end right after this war? I mean the manga has to end with Naruto being Hokage, so there must be another Arc in which Kakashi would be the 6th...
    I'm pretty sure that the whole "sixth Hokage" thing was just Obito's wish for Kakashi; that doesn't mean that Kakashi will actually become a Hokage. It's too late for that anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the whole "sixth Hokage" thing was just Obito's wish for Kakashi; that doesn't mean that Kakashi will actually become a Hokage. It's too late for that anyway.
    I dunno, I think the way Obito pronounced Naruto and Kakashi as Hokage seemed to have more merit than just a throwaway wish.

    And as far as having another arc for Kakashi to be the 6th Hokage, I don't think that's necessary. I would guess that Kakashi will be named 6th Hokage after this arc (at the end of the story), and The Last movie will either have Naruto as the new Hokage (since it's in the future), or Kakashi will continue to be Hokage and get replaced by Naruto within the movie. Not sure what to make of Tsunade though, it seems a little late for her to bite the dust now... maybe she'll remain Hokage and Kakashi will take her place between now and the movie. All speculation.

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    Well it's not like Obito decides who becomes Hokage and who doesn't. I enjoy greatly that he didn't give a single thought about Sasuke being Hokage. Seriously what a joke. Hokage Sasuke! Anyway it is too late to kill off Tsunade. She lasted this long, why kill her now? But with there not being a 6th Hokage, according to Obito, I guess Danzo really wasn't a real Hokage. I really wanted a corrupt Hokage storyline. That would have been so much fun. Oh well. I still don't like that they're going to make this Naruto movie canon. It's almost like a desperate attempt to get fans who only read the manga to watch the movie. Now I have to sit through, the annoying voices of the Naruto cast and their over dramatic music. Thanks a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I still don't like that they're going to make this Naruto movie canon. It's almost like a desperate attempt to get fans who only read the manga to watch the movie. Now I have to sit through, the annoying voices of the Naruto cast and their over dramatic music. Thanks a lot.
    Hm, there are a lot of different voices and pieces of music, I'm surprised none of them appeal to you. You don't like Madara's or Pain's voice (in either the original or the dub)? And some of the sad music can really add depth and poignancy to a scene that was relatively straightforward and mediocre in the manga. I do think it's strange that the movie is canon though, maybe there'll be a manga version of it. I'm thinking that the manga will end on its own, and the movie will simply be "extra", so it's not completely necessary to watch. If I were a mangaka I wouldn't want some animation studio to decide what happens at the end of my story (if that's what's happening).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    Hm, there are a lot of different voices and pieces of music, I'm surprised none of them appeal to you. You don't like Madara's or Pain's voice (in either the original or the dub)? And some of the sad music can really add depth and poignancy to a scene that was relatively straightforward and mediocre in the manga. I do think it's strange that the movie is canon though, maybe there'll be a manga version of it. I'm thinking that the manga will end on its own, and the movie will simply be "extra", so it's not completely necessary to watch. If I were a mangaka I wouldn't want some animation studio to decide what happens at the end of my story (if that's what's happening).
    Well it's more of the music then the voice acting. Some of the voice actors are better then others. I think my problem that turned me off to the anime was I made the mistake of watching all those endless fillers before part 2. That made me despise the anime. I only watched some of the fights in the part 2 anime to see them animated like Naruto vs Pain. I did not like how ugly the animation for that fight was. Especially when Naruto was in tailed beast mode. That was some of the ugliest animation I had seen. It was a insult to such a great fight! There's just a lot of bad blood between me and the anime. However that is not to say I will never check out a Naruto episode. Even a filler episode if it's good I will tune in to see. But I haven't seen a Naruto episode in near two years.

    As far as the music goes, I mainly am talking about part 1. I thought some if not most of the music was too over the top. Some music was fitting like that music that played during Sasuke nearly getting killed saving Naruto from Haku. Or the music that played when Shukaku woke up when fighting Naruto and Gamabunta. That was pretty good too. Then there's just music that's too over the top, or fights that last longer then they should, like Hinata vs Pain. The fight ended perfectly in the manga, because it was Hinata's willingness to die for Naruto that was important, not how well she did in the fight. And it just feels like the drama is way stronger in the anime then in the manga. That's how it should be, but sometimes it gives me a headache. But again I will watch the anime if I hear good things about it, or they give me something to see that the manga could never do. So I won't outright never watch it. I just prefer to keep it small.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    I dunno, I think the way Obito pronounced Naruto and Kakashi as Hokage seemed to have more merit than just a throwaway wish.

    And as far as having another arc for Kakashi to be the 6th Hokage, I don't think that's necessary. I would guess that Kakashi will be named 6th Hokage after this arc (at the end of the story), and The Last movie will either have Naruto as the new Hokage (since it's in the future), or Kakashi will continue to be Hokage and get replaced by Naruto within the movie. Not sure what to make of Tsunade though, it seems a little late for her to bite the dust now... maybe she'll remain Hokage and Kakashi will take her place between now and the movie. All speculation.
    Well Tsunade's still alive and she has no reason to retire just yet imo. So I really doubt that Kakashi will take over for her as the next Hokage is all.

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    Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

    Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Well it's more of the music then the voice acting. Some of the voice actors are better then others. I think my problem that turned me off to the anime was I made the mistake of watching all those endless fillers before part 2. That made me despise the anime. I only watched some of the fights in the part 2 anime to see them animated like Naruto vs Pain. I did not like how ugly the animation for that fight was. Especially when Naruto was in tailed beast mode. That was some of the ugliest animation I had seen. It was a insult to such a great fight! There's just a lot of bad blood between me and the anime. However that is not to say I will never check out a Naruto episode. Even a filler episode if it's good I will tune in to see. But I haven't seen a Naruto episode in near two years.

    As far as the music goes, I mainly am talking about part 1. I thought some if not most of the music was too over the top. Some music was fitting like that music that played during Sasuke nearly getting killed saving Naruto from Haku. Or the music that played when Shukaku woke up when fighting Naruto and Gamabunta. That was pretty good too. Then there's just music that's too over the top, or fights that last longer then they should, like Hinata vs Pain. The fight ended perfectly in the manga, because it was Hinata's willingness to die for Naruto that was important, not how well she did in the fight. And it just feels like the drama is way stronger in the anime then in the manga. That's how it should be, but sometimes it gives me a headache. But again I will watch the anime if I hear good things about it, or they give me something to see that the manga could never do. So I won't outright never watch it. I just prefer to keep it small.
    Every now and again I'll have a minor issue with how the anime treats the source material (the manga), but for the most part I think they do a good job. I mean to be honest, even if they didn't do that great of a job, in my opinion it's still worth watching to see all of the 2-dimensional, black-and-white panels come to life in color and sound and everything. It imitates the excitement of real life a lot better. But I also happen to really like the opening and ending themes, most of the voices, just about all of the music, and a lot of the animation (ranges from okay to great), so I guess it's easier for me to swallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

    Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.
    Well Naruto isn't technically too young, since Gaara's been Hokage himself. And if you meant that Naruto is too naive or inexperienced, I would argue that isn't really true either anymore. But your theory about the kages retiring sounds plausible. Except for Gaara I'd say.

    Hm, I wonder what will happen to the Tailed Beasts after everything is over. Will they disappear/die after thanking Naruto? Or maybe they'll be able to roam free in peace. Or maybe there will be a new group of Jinchuuriki (including Naruto and Killer Bee) that are considered allies and friends of their respective villages instead of loners and outcasts.

    Maybe all of the kages (if there are new ones) will be Jinchuuriki!
    Last edited by Kamex; 8th August 2014 at 3:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Obito declaring Kakashi as the next hokage was definitely foreshadowing. Naruto is still a bit too young to go into office.

    Tsunade's alive and all but I bet that her and the other kages are going to retire after the war, stating that they failed and they want to pass the torch to the next generation or whatever.
    Kakashi himself said after the Gokage Summit arc that he wasn't suited for the position of Hokage and I doubt that Obito's wish for him will affect him, especially since Kakashi wants Naruto to fulfill his dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    Kakashi himself said after the Gokage Summit arc that he wasn't suited for the position of Hokage and I doubt that Obito's wish for him will affect him, especially since Kakashi wants Naruto to fulfill his dream.
    Despite that I wouldn't have mind Kakashi being Hokage. Can't be any worse then Tsunade. But the time for that has past. Just give it to Naruto already. The only thing is we still haven't seen Naruto in a true leadership role yet. They could have shown him being a strong leader in the Madara/Kaguya fight, but he's either taking orders from Sasuke or making crazy moves. Nothing really shouts out a leader to me. I mean in that regard, Sasuke probably is more qualified as he is a natural leader. So leadership is a quality Naruto I feel still lacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Despite that I wouldn't have mind Kakashi being Hokage. Can't be any worse then Tsunade. But the time for that has past. Just give it to Naruto already. The only thing is we still haven't seen Naruto in a true leadership role yet. They could have shown him being a strong leader in the Madara/Kaguya fight, but he's either taking orders from Sasuke or making crazy moves. Nothing really shouts out a leader to me. I mean in that regard, Sasuke probably is more qualified as he is a natural leader. So leadership is a quality Naruto I feel still lacks.
    He could be better, but I feel like he showed some leadership qualities in the way he handled most of the war. Having his clones in several places and being able to handle all these different situations and basically turn the tide of the war showed that he could be relied upon. Similar situation when he shared his chakra with everyone to keep the steam rolling against Obito, and even with the way he saved the village against Pain.

    I suppose you could say he didn't give many orders during this time, but I don't remember Tsunade ever doing so until she got the role. I guess having his own cell to lead would do some good. Come to think of it, he did kind of coach Konohamaru if that counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    He could be better, but I feel like he showed some leadership qualities in the way he handled most of the war. Having his clones in several places and being able to handle all these different situations and basically turn the tide of the war showed that he could be relied upon. Similar situation when he shared his chakra with everyone to keep the steam rolling against Obito, and even with the way he saved the village against Pain.

    I suppose you could say he didn't give many orders during this time, but I don't remember Tsunade ever doing so until she got the role. I guess having his own cell to lead would do some good. Come to think of it, he did kind of coach Konohamaru if that counts.
    That was being useful. Not exactly being a leader. Naruto didn't command anyone from Konoha to do this or that. It was his clones doing all the work. Naruto's useful but being useful doesn't make a leader. Sharing his chakra with everyone was helpful, but how does that make him anymore a leader then anyone else? He's got the power for Hokage. He's beyond all the other Gokage, but is he a leader? I still haven't seen it yet. He's a great solider, but not a leader.

    As far as Tsunade goes, that's kinda unfair. Tsunade was only introduced into the story to become the new Hokage. She never appeared in the manga outside a flashback as a unnamed kunoichi. You could say she bossed around Shizune, I suppose. But we don't know how much of a leader she was during her time as a active Konoha shinobi. The war arc really didn't show Naruto off as a leader and I think they really should have done that if he is aiming to be Hokage and if that is still the desired goal. He inspires many, but is he a true leader ready to lead a nation?
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