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Thread: Naruto: The end is here.

  1. #26076
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    Quote Originally Posted by tak310 View Post
    didnt tsunade need naruto's help in order to defend the village from pain and at the end of the day naruto is still a ninja of the leaf so he is going to help defend the village no matter what whether its under kakashi or tsunade orders.
    He didn't receive direct orders from Tsunade; he protected the village on his own accord. I'm saying that Naruto being relied on for Konoha's defense all the time in the future since Kakashi's apparently too weak is an odd concept because then it'll be as if Naruto's only purpose is to be village protector, in which case he may as well have the Hokage title. :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    He didn't receive direct orders from Tsunade; he protected the village on his own accord. I'm saying that Naruto being relied on for Konoha's defense all the time in the future since Kakashi's apparently too weak is an odd concept because then it'll be as if Naruto's only purpose is to be village protector, in which case he may as well have the Hokage title. :x
    To be fair, this is largely a distinction without a difference. Naruto chose to protect the village on his own (though Tsunade did go out of her way to try to get him back, too), but the fact remains that had he not done so Konoha would be toast.

    It's not like every threat Konoha will ever face in the future will be some Akatsuki-level threat; Kakashi is still relatively powerful in his own right (theoretically anyway) without the Sharingan and more than capable of handling threats. You're making it sound like every threat regardless of severity will be something Kakashi would have to call on Naruto to handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    He didn't receive direct orders from Tsunade; he protected the village on his own accord. I'm saying that Naruto being relied on for Konoha's defense all the time in the future since Kakashi's apparently too weak is an odd concept because then it'll be as if Naruto's only purpose is to be village protector, in which case he may as well have the Hokage title. :x
    Tsunade did kinda order Naruto back to the village, against the elders wishes, even Danzo tried to halt it. So it's not like Kakashi would be the first. Besides Naruto surpassed Tsunade a long time ago and she's still Hokage. I'm not saying I agree with Kakashi being Hokage over Naruto, but it's not a impossible or ridiculous situation. It only looks that way to us because the series is like ending. That and the time to make Kakashi Hokage has passed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Tsunade did kinda order Naruto back to the village, against the elders wishes, even Danzo tried to halt it.
    My point is that Naruto literally didn't receive those orders; Kosuke was killed before sending the message, so Naruto protected Konoha without being told to by the Hokage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    My point is that Naruto literally didn't receive those orders; Kosuke was killed before sending the message, so Naruto protected Konoha without being told to by the Hokage.
    Well yeah. Konoha's his home. Can't have random villains messing it up. Any Konoha ninja would defend it unless they got orders not to for some weird reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    TsukiMirage, I'm not even going to bother debating with you now. Just read the new chapters, and you can argue with them. If you still think Sasuke would make a better Hokage over Naruto, then I fear the world you vision.

    Latest chapter just echoed everything I have been saying. And I'm glad Naruto does not support Sasuke as Hokage, so there will be no "Naruto supports Sasuke to be Hokage and he'll become a Jiraiya wander" crap. That would be beyond dumb for the series anyway. Sasuke treats Sakura like dirt. While I'll never understand why she loves him, Sasuke pretty much treats her like Karin. Some Hokage. So Sasuke has his own version of Hokage? I'm sure it's nothing good. I take back what I said about Sasuke being a Danzo style Hokage. I think he'd be far worse. Still a good chapter. They're throwing the nostalgia of Part 1 into this and it's up to Naruto to "change" Sasuke.

    I think this chapter almost confirms Sasuke will never be Hokage. Because he's just using the title Hokage as a excuse for his own agenda for changing the world. Still Sasuke makes a great villain for this. I can't wait to see Naruto beat him.
    ... Sasuke hasn't done anything differently then Itachi did, and Itachi was proclaim as fitting Hokage material by the Hokages themselves. Time and again, we have been shown that some things are necessary for the greater good. There hasn't been any reason other then "he's not a nice person" as justification for Sasuke not being a fitting Hokage, which is moot against his actual leadership ability, drive, and intelligence. I'm not sure why I wouldn't want a leader who would work to prevent his own people from getting massacred by the government and is against giant monsters who mentally tortured and attempted to kill children? I also find it funny how Naruto is against eliminating the Bijuus despite the fact that he showed no care for them when he himself was attempting to kill the Juubi with Kirabi.

    You do realize that the reason such was believed was because since Part Two, Naruto was suppose to be working towards bring peace to the world and multiple characters close to him (Jiraiya, Minato, and Nagato) went into how the ninja system is flawed and had to be changed. We were then introduced to the Rikudou Sennin and his concept of bring everyone together, with multiple parallels connected to Naruto. This has literally been the theme since the Rain arc. For all that to be dropped and Naruto to simply become Hokage would be him failing those who put their hope in him.

    Also, how did Sasuke treat Sakura like crap? He has always considered her annoying, unless you mean the genjutsu, in which case that was him protecting her. Remember the last time the two fought, Sakura ran inbetween them and nearly got herself killed? Genjutsu was the most benign way to keep her from interfering. Well, I suppose he could have knocked her on the back of the head again...

    So, you saying trying to change the world, which as mentioned have been stated flawed by multiple characters in the series and is suppose to be Naruto's whole current motivation, is wrong... even if that agenda is preventing another event like the one that happen to his own clan from happening again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    He gave her a weak "sorry" while she was mad and then she fangirled over him as if the Danzo incident never happened. It's one moment in the series I truly wish I could forget.
    Wait, Sasuke actually showing remorse and apologizes for a wrong action without being made to do so, without wanting or expecting something in return, is still bad and unfitting. It's like nothing he does will be acceptable.
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  7. #26082
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    ... Sasuke hasn't done anything differently then Itachi did, and Itachi was proclaim as fitting Hokage material by the Hokages themselves. Time and again, we have been shown that some things are necessary for the greater good. There hasn't been any reason other then "he's not a nice person" as justification for Sasuke not being a fitting Hokage, which is moot against his actual leadership ability, drive, and intelligence. I'm not sure why I wouldn't want a leader who would work to prevent his own people from getting massacred by the government and is against giant monsters who mentally tortured and attempted to kill children? I also find it funny how Naruto is against eliminating the Bijuus despite the fact that he showed no care for them when he himself was attempting to kill the Juubi with Kirabi.

    You do realize that the reason such was believed was because since Part Two, Naruto was suppose to be working towards bring peace to the world and multiple characters close to him (Jiraiya, Minato, and Nagato) went into how the ninja system is flawed and had to be changed. We were then introduced to the Rikudou Sennin and his concept of bring everyone together, with multiple parallels connected to Naruto. This has literally been the theme since the Rain arc. For all that to be dropped and Naruto to simply become Hokage would be him failing those who put their hope in him.

    Also, how did Sasuke treat Sakura like crap? He has always considered her annoying, unless you mean the genjutsu, in which case that was him protecting her. Remember the last time the two fought, Sakura ran inbetween them and nearly got herself killed? Genjutsu was the most benign way to keep her from interfering. Well, I suppose he could have knocked her on the back of the head again...

    So, you saying trying to change the world, which as mentioned have been stated flawed by multiple characters in the series and is suppose to be Naruto's whole current motivation, is wrong... even if that agenda is preventing another event like the one that happen to his own clan from happening again?

    Wait, Sasuke actually showing remorse and apologizes for a wrong action without being made to do so, without wanting or expecting something in return, is still bad and unfitting. It's like nothing he does will be acceptable.
    Sasuke would make a horrible leader. He doesn't care about Konoha. You really think Sasuke cares about anything but his own vision of Hokage? Let me ask you this, why kill Tsunade? Tsunade is a respectable Konoha shinobi and has devoted her life to Konoha since becoming Hokage. You really think Konoha will accept Sasuke for killing Tsunade. Why kill Gaara? Gaara is allies with Konoha and by killing him, Sasuke simple sets Konoha back and makes them look like backstabbers. Sasuke only cares about his own goals and nobody else who's not a Uchiha. Naruto cares for the village and everyone in it and would do anything to protect it. That's the difference between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke can be the best leader in the world but if he doesn't have the trust of Konoha he'll never be Hokage. And Sasuke doesn't know anything about being Hokage. There's doing what needs to be done and then there's stupid choices, and Sasuke's doing the latter. Nothing can defend his appalling actions now.

    And you ask how he treated Sakura like crap? Well let's see, he badmouthed her on how useless she is in the Kaguya fight, told her how annoying she was and placed her in a Genjutsu and told Naruto he cares nothing about her. Now if Sasuke is going to treat Sakura, a character who has been loyal to Sasuke through the best of time and the worst of times, like this, why on earth would anyone think he would treat the rest of Konoha any better? Why would you want that as your Hokage? A person who's going to tear you down instead of encouraging you?
    Last edited by Platinum fan.; 28th September 2014 at 10:48 PM.
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    I'm not sure how Sasuke's plans can be justified anyway; is him planning to murder the Gokage, the Bijuu, Naruto, and likely becoming a dictator Hokage a good thing? Thank God Naruto is there to stop him. :x

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    I don't care who is the hokage as long as Tsunade and the others are not killed by Sauce-kay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    But as far as they had the most development, I'm guessing you mean together? Correct me if I'm wrong
    Together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Sasuke would make a horrible leader. He doesn't care about Konoha. You really think Sasuke cares about anything but his own vision of Hokage? Let me ask you this, why kill Tsunade? Tsunade is a respectable Konoha shinobi and has devoted her life to Konoha since becoming Hokage. You really think Konoha will accept Sasuke for killing Tsunade. Why kill Gaara? Gaara is allies with Konoha and by killing him, Sasuke simple sets Konoha back and makes them look like backstabbers. Sasuke only cares about his own goals and nobody else who's not a Uchiha. Naruto cares for the village and everyone in it and would do anything to protect it. That's the difference between Naruto and Sasuke. Sasuke can be the best leader in the world but if he doesn't have the trust of Konoha he'll never be Hokage. And Sasuke doesn't know anything about being Hokage. There's doing what needs to be done and then there's stupid choices, and Sasuke's doing the latter. Nothing can defend his appalling actions now.
    But he does care about Konoha. He cares about Konoha because Itachi cared about Konoha and Sasuke has taken it upon himself to take over Itachi's duties and protect Konoha like he wanted. He states this during the meeting with the Edo Hokages. It's the whole reason he got involved in the war, and literally risked his life multiple times trying to save everyone. And given that Sasuke was shown to basically idolize Itachi, there's really no reason to believe that he's not as dedicated as he appears to Itachi's dream.

    We don't know why exactly he is going after the Kages, though it's probably because they are responsible for keeping the flawed system the way it is and would oppose any change in said system. As for Konoha accepting him and setting the villages back, huh? How would anyone else know what he did? Everyone except Team Seven is currently in the dream world, meaning that they won't have any idea what he did before he awakes them. The only complication would be Kakashi and Sakura, and a genjutsu solves that problem.

    Again, Sasuke has literally gotten involved in a major conflict and risked his own life to protect not just the village, but the entire world. Those are not the actions of someone who doesn't care. And really, Naruto would do anything to protect the village? He refused to stay in the village where it was safe and instead ran around where he could have been grabbed, he disobey Jiraiya's orders and nearly killed Sakura, he lied to Karui and continued to reinforce the claim that Sasuke was a Konoha ninja despite the fact that it could have led to war and then threw it all on Ee to prevent said war, refused to obey the Alliance's protection, and continually allows dangerous ninjas to go free. Just because the narrative goes in his favor doesn't change that Naruto only does things that benefits what he wants, and rejects any other way. The current situation is partly due to the fact that Naruto refuses to put the safety of others over his own desire. At least Sasuke has shown the habit of actually listening to other people and accepting their opinions.

    Sasuke knows exactly what it means to be Hokage and protect the village. Have you forgotten that the whole reason he had the Edo Hokages revived were to asked about those very things. It was the talk with them that caused him to abandon his desire for revenge and work to protect the village. I would say his actions are extreme, but as mentioned before, at least he has an idea of how to fix the world and changed the flawed system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    And you ask how he treated Sakura like crap? Well let's see, he badmouthed her on how useless she is in the Kaguya fight, told her how annoying she was and placed her in a Genjutsu and told Naruto he cares nothing about her. Now if Sasuke is going to treat Sakura, a character who has been loyal to Sasuke through the best of time and the worst of times, like this, why on earth would anyone think he would treat the rest of Konoha any better? Why would you want that as your Hokage? A person who's going to tear you down instead of encouraging you?
    And yet he went out of his way to save her life at least three times: against the Juubi-spawn, from being caught in the dream world, and from being caught in the Chibaku Tensei. His comments about her being less important compared to him and Naruto in the Kaguya fight was harsh but completely true. They couldn't worry about her safety at the expense of their own, cause if one of them died, then it was game over, the whole world was doomed. Even Kakashi agreed with him. He has always considered her annoying, since the very beginning. I'm not sure why he's a bad guy for getting annoyed at a person who keeps going on about her feeling for him despite him making it clear again and again he doesn't love her. Heck, us readers have complained about her constant talk of love of him despite there being no basis for it. It makes prefect sense he would be annoyed with such a person, just like how Sakura got annoyed at Naruto and Lee for doing the exact same thing to her. Are you saying he's under some obligation to return feeling he doesn't hold? Despite considering her annoying since the beginning of the series, he has still saved her multiple times, including during the recent situation. And I already explained the genjutsu, which was done to keep her from getting involved, which considering the last time she got involved she nearly got killed, seems more like a plus then a minus.

    Exactly what about the current situation granted him any reason to "encourage"? More importantly, you do realize that's how cadets in the military are trained, right? I don't recall any other Hokage being "encouraging" , nor Naruto ever being that way. I do recall Naruto calling Konohamaru out on his crap attitude, but I suppose that's something else. And I also recall how the children under the previous Hokages were trained not to give in to emotions, and ninjas who did were criticized and even pushed to suicide. Seems like you're faulting Sasuke for lacking something that wasn't there in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I'm not sure how Sasuke's plans can be justified anyway; is him planning to murder the Gokage, the Bijuu, Naruto, and likely becoming a dictator Hokage a good thing? Thank God Naruto is there to stop him. :x
    True about the Gokages at this point, but the Bijuus have been shown too dangerous to be left around. Even if they themselves don't go evil again (and given how easily they went that way before...) that doesn't prevent them from once again being used, since all the villages have the knowledge to capture them. As long as they exist, they can once again be used as weapons. Naruto's a target because he has the Bijuu's chakra inside him and we have been shown that even a little bit is capable of being just as dangerous.

    Well, considering that the Kages are basically military dictatorships since they have complete control over the military and really don't have to answer to anyone else, I guess you can say that Sasuke wants to be a dictator. But then that's true for everyone who wants that position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    But he does care about Konoha. He cares about Konoha because Itachi cared about Konoha and Sasuke has taken it upon himself to take over Itachi's duties and protect Konoha like he wanted. He states this during the meeting with the Edo Hokages. It's the whole reason he got involved in the war, and literally risked his life multiple times trying to save everyone. And given that Sasuke was shown to basically idolize Itachi, there's really no reason to believe that he's not as dedicated as he appears to Itachi's dream.

    We don't know why exactly he is going after the Kages, though it's probably because they are responsible for keeping the flawed system the way it is and would oppose any change in said system. As for Konoha accepting him and setting the villages back, huh? How would anyone else know what he did? Everyone except Team Seven is currently in the dream world, meaning that they won't have any idea what he did before he awakes them. The only complication would be Kakashi and Sakura, and a genjutsu solves that problem.

    Again, Sasuke has literally gotten involved in a major conflict and risked his own life to protect not just the village, but the entire world. Those are not the actions of someone who doesn't care. And really, Naruto would do anything to protect the village? He refused to stay in the village where it was safe and instead ran around where he could have been grabbed, he disobey Jiraiya's orders and nearly killed Sakura, he lied to Karui and continued to reinforce the claim that Sasuke was a Konoha ninja despite the fact that it could have led to war and then threw it all on Ee to prevent said war, refused to obey the Alliance's protection, and continually allows dangerous ninjas to go free. Just because the narrative goes in his favor doesn't change that Naruto only does things that benefits what he wants, and rejects any other way. The current situation is partly due to the fact that Naruto refuses to put the safety of others over his own desire. At least Sasuke has shown the habit of actually listening to other people and accepting their opinions.

    Sasuke knows exactly what it means to be Hokage and protect the village. Have you forgotten that the whole reason he had the Edo Hokages revived were to asked about those very things. It was the talk with them that caused him to abandon his desire for revenge and work to protect the village. I would say his actions are extreme, but as mentioned before, at least he has an idea of how to fix the world and changed the flawed system.

    And yet he went out of his way to save her life at least three times: against the Juubi-spawn, from being caught in the dream world, and from being caught in the Chibaku Tensei. His comments about her being less important compared to him and Naruto in the Kaguya fight was harsh but completely true. They couldn't worry about her safety at the expense of their own, cause if one of them died, then it was game over, the whole world was doomed. Even Kakashi agreed with him. He has always considered her annoying, since the very beginning. I'm not sure why he's a bad guy for getting annoyed at a person who keeps going on about her feeling for him despite him making it clear again and again he doesn't love her. Heck, us readers have complained about her constant talk of love of him despite there being no basis for it. It makes prefect sense he would be annoyed with such a person, just like how Sakura got annoyed at Naruto and Lee for doing the exact same thing to her. Are you saying he's under some obligation to return feeling he doesn't hold? Despite considering her annoying since the beginning of the series, he has still saved her multiple times, including during the recent situation. And I already explained the genjutsu, which was done to keep her from getting involved, which considering the last time she got involved she nearly got killed, seems more like a plus then a minus.

    Exactly what about the current situation granted him any reason to "encourage"? More importantly, you do realize that's how cadets in the military are trained, right? I don't recall any other Hokage being "encouraging" , nor Naruto ever being that way. I do recall Naruto calling Konohamaru out on his crap attitude, but I suppose that's something else. And I also recall how the children under the previous Hokages were trained not to give in to emotions, and ninjas who did were criticized and even pushed to suicide. Seems like you're faulting Sasuke for lacking something that wasn't there in the first place.

    True about the Gokages at this point, but the Bijuus have been shown too dangerous to be left around. Even if they themselves don't go evil again (and given how easily they went that way before...) that doesn't prevent them from once again being used, since all the villages have the knowledge to capture them. As long as they exist, they can once again be used as weapons. Naruto's a target because he has the Bijuu's chakra inside him and we have been shown that even a little bit is capable of being just as dangerous.

    Well, considering that the Kages are basically military dictatorships since they have complete control over the military and really don't have to answer to anyone else, I guess you can say that Sasuke wants to be a dictator. But then that's true for everyone who wants that position.

    First off all let me just say that Sasuke putting Kakashi and Sakura in Genjutsu to cover himself just makes him Danzo. I've been saying all along Sasuke would be a Danzo style Hokage or worse and I guess you agree with me on that now.

    The Naruto stuff. How is Naruto selfish? Everything he's done in part 2 was for the sake of someone else. How did he disobey Jiraiya? Give me a example. He took a beating from Karui to protect Sasuke, but he also took it be responsible for their hatred. He never lied to her he just said he couldn't sell him out. Naruto almost killed Sakura? When? Do you mean when he raged out and smacked her with his tail during the Orochimaru fight? Sakura's life was not in danger there. It's not like he tried to Chidori her right in the face in cold blood. Naruto's not perfect. I'm not saying he is, but he's twice the man Sasuke Uchiha will ever be. Naruto swallowed his pride and didn't kill Nagato, a man who killed a father figure to him. Compare that to Sasuke killing Danzo in cold blood and sacrificing Karin to do it. Just to exact his revenge and make himself feel better.

    And lastly The Gokages have been supporting their troops and encouraging them all throughout the war. Gaara's speech to the troops to get them to work together started us off. And all through out the series we've had squad leaders encouraging their teams. Kakashi and Shikamaru are the first to come to mind, and it's probably why Konoha hold Kakashi in such high regards besides his skills. Sasuke just talks down to anyone he doesn't find useful and sacrifices anyone. He would have killed Karin is Sakura hadn't come. And no Sasuke doesn't have to return Sakura's feelings but he doesn't have to treat her like trash either.

    And Sasuke doesn't love the village. If Itachi told him to kill Konoha he'd do it without a second thought. You're right he loves Itachi and Uchiha. He is not loyal to Konoha itself though.
    Last edited by Platinum fan.; 29th September 2014 at 6:30 PM.
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    The only thing I agree with Sasuke about is that the Biijus probably need to go. As long as they are around it seems history is going to keep repeating itself with the sages sons being passed down and all that nonsense.

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    I don't think the Bijuu are a problem, at least not on their own. Naruto's practically their best friend, so he can always watch over them although frankly, the Bijuu should be competent enough to not be captured again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I don't think the Bijuu are a problem, at least not on their own. Naruto's practically their best friend, so he can always watch over them although frankly, the Bijuu should be competent enough to not be captured again.
    Wasn't Naruto appointed to be their new meeting place or whatever? Anyway Naruto won't let them die. He's friends with them now and it would negate the chapters of Naruto learning about them and befriending them. Especially Kurama. Sasuke's the only threat I see now. If they killed Sasuke off, the Uchiha hatred legacy dies with him. But we already know he lives through this fight. That's fine, I just want to see Naruto punch Sasuke's face in in their fight. Sasuke's had this beating coming for years.

    Also, the Tailed Beast will be roaming Pokemon when it's all over. A shinobi steps into the tall grass and a wild Eight-Tails will pop out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Wasn't Naruto appointed to be their new meeting place or whatever? Anyway Naruto won't let them die. He's friends with them now and it would negate the chapters of Naruto learning about them and befriending them. Especially Kurama. Sasuke's the only threat I see now. If they killed Sasuke off, the Uchiha hatred legacy dies with him. But we already know he lives through this fight. That's fine, I just want to see Naruto punch Sasuke's face in in their fight. Sasuke's had this beating coming for years.

    Also, the Tailed Beast will be roaming Pokemon when it's all over. A shinobi steps into the tall grass and a wild Eight-Tails will pop out.
    Poor example seeing as the Eight-Tails claimed that it wants to stay with Killer Bee, but essentially this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    Poor example seeing as the Eight-Tails claimed that it wants to stay with Killer Bee, but essentially this.
    Alright then. Let me try this again. A shinobi goes out to the tall grass on a mission and a wild Four-Tails comes out. I just randomly picked a tailed beast in my head. But they should be the Entei/Raikou/roaming monsters of the Naruto world. It'll drive everyone nuts going into tall grass and then hearing that random battle music and a Tailed Beast just appears.

    On another random note, I wonder if Samui will ever be freed from that gourd? I still haven't forgotten about her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    On another random note, I wonder if Samui will ever be freed from that gourd? I still haven't forgotten about her.
    Are she and Atsui even in the gourd anymore? I thought the Gedo Mazo absorbed the gourd's contents a while back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    Are she and Atsui even in the gourd anymore? I thought the Gedo Mazo absorbed the gourd's contents a while back.
    If it did I just assumed it took the Tailed Beast power inside. Why would it want Samui...and that other guy Atsui. I don't know why I should even concern myself with these d-list characters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    First off all let me just say that Sasuke putting Kakashi and Sakura in Genjutsu to cover himself just makes him Danzo. I've been saying all along Sasuke would be a Danzo style Hokage or worse and I guess you agree with me on that now.
    Placing them in a genjutsu would be to preserve the peace, which is a perfectly valid thing to do. That would be nothing like Danzo, who's prefer method was murdering people who didn't even know anything. We have already seen that it's reasonable for a Hokage to hide the truth to preserve the peace with Sarutobi: he hid what Orochimaru had been doing, the truth around the Kyuubi incident and the truth around the massacre. All leaders keep secrets. Just because Sasuke has the ability to do so easier doesn't make him bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    The Naruto stuff. How is Naruto selfish? Everything he's done in part 2 was for the sake of someone else. How did he disobey Jiraiya? Give me a example. He took a beating from Karui to protect Sasuke, but he also took it be responsible for their hatred. He never lied to her he just said he couldn't sell him out. Naruto almost killed Sakura? When? Do you mean when he raged out and smacked her with his tail during the Orochimaru fight? Sakura's life was not in danger there. It's not like he tried to Chidori her right in the face in cold blood. Naruto's not perfect. I'm not saying he is, but he's twice the man Sasuke Uchiha will ever be. Naruto swallowed his pride and didn't kill Nagato, a man who killed a father figure to him. Compare that to Sasuke killing Danzo in cold blood and sacrificing Karin to do it. Just to exact his revenge and make himself feel better.
    At best, his actions could be claimed for Sakura, but Naruto has made it clear several times throughout Part Two that HE wanted Sasuke to come back. But if that's you reasoning, then it should count for Sasuke too, since all of his actions have been for his clan and Itachi. And even though everyone else wanted Naruto to stay in the village where it was safe and he couldn't be grabbed by Akatsuki, he refused. His disobeyed Jiraiya in using the Kyuubi cloak. Not only did he go back on his words to Karui, but his "protection" could have led to war and endangered the whole village. Exactly what is selfless about linking the entire village's to a criminal's actions? And he did lie to her, the whole reason she went with him was because he specifically told her he would tell her everything about Sasuke. Then he didn't. That's lying.

    Naruto used an ability that he knew was incredibility dangerous to those around him. Sakura's life was in danger, saved only because Yamato stopped Naruto from continuing. And it wasn't a tail swipe, it was done by his claws, as seen with her arm. Naruto didn't "swallow" his pride, he simply changed his mind after going through the Paths, which I would remind you he didn't know were dead puppets until after he had already "killed" several. Why compare that with Danzo, who was by no means an innocent or misguided person? Why not compare that to how Sasuke, of his own free will, decided to drop his desire for revenge against the innocent citizens of Konoha? Recall, he wasn't made to do this. Itachi told him that he would love Sasuke no matter what, and Hashirama felt that Sasuke should make his own decision about whether to go against Konoha or protect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    And lastly The Gokages have been supporting their troops and encouraging them all throughout the war. Gaara's speech to the troops to get them to work together started us off. And all through out the series we've had squad leaders encouraging their teams. Kakashi and Shikamaru are the first to come to mind, and it's probably why Konoha hold Kakashi in such high regards besides his skills. Sasuke just talks down to anyone he doesn't find useful and sacrifices anyone. He would have killed Karin is Sakura hadn't come. And no Sasuke doesn't have to return Sakura's feelings but he doesn't have to treat her like trash either.
    So when you said encourage, you meant in the context of getting everyone to work "better"? If that's the case, then Sasuke has been encouraging. All throughout this arc he has pushed for teamwork. I though you had been talking about it in the context of getting people to feel god about themselves, which hasn't really been done. I mean, Kakashi insulted his students all the time, but only once do I recall him speaking nice to them, back in the Wave Arc when they were fighting Haku.

    The only people Sasuke has ever "talked down" to were Naruto and Sakura, and that was because he had good reason to do so. Both their skills in the beginning were pathetic, and the moment Naruto began to grow more skillful, Sasuke did begin to acknowledge him. Since then, Sasuke has only talked down to him in the personal sense. Sasuke doesn't do that to anyone else. And only once did he ever sacrifice someone, and the very next time he saw her, he apologized for it.

    Treat her like trash? So protecting her, catching her from falling, warning her to get out of the way, and putting her to sleep to keep her from getting involved in a dangerous fight is bad? Telling someone they annoy you is not treating a person like trash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    And Sasuke doesn't love the village. If Itachi told him to kill Konoha he'd do it without a second thought. You're right he loves Itachi and Uchiha. He is not loyal to Konoha itself though.
    But he is, because Itachi was, which is the point. Itachi was loyal and loved the village, so Sasuke has taken that all upon himself. That's why he got involved in the war, even though there was no other reason for him to get involved. If all Sasuke cared about was the dead, then he probably would have taken Madara up on his offer. Heck, he wouldn't care about freeing all the enslaved people currently. There is nothing making him work for them, he's choosing to do that on his own free will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I don't think the Bijuu are a problem, at least not on their own. Naruto's practically their best friend, so he can always watch over them although frankly, the Bijuu should be competent enough to not be captured again.
    At best, Naruto would only be able to watch over them for a few decades before he dies, and that's if he doesn't have greater duties to concern himself with like leading a village. And competence really doesn't matter when there are a dozen or so ways to catch them.
    A soul that cannot be saved drifts and disappears,
    In the instant it vanishes, it shines faintly,
    Now, it creates a night with a full moon.



  20. #26095
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    Using Naruto's faults to justify Sasuke's actions... just wow
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  21. #26096
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    Are you... trying to play a Devil's Advocate or something? Cause no one can be that serious trying to justify Sasuke's actions like this.

    Look, Naruto isn't exactly the smart type. Neither is Sasuke. At this point, he's just a kid who thinks he can do better than past leaders. Heck, he doesn't even have the disposition to work with others. In fact everyone in the war were following Naruto in their strategies against Obito. Being a leader doesn't mean you can do everything by yourself ya know. I mean you need the cooperation of the people you lead. Also, deception AND forcing the change is not the way to go. Results doesn't mean crap if the methods to do so are just inexcusable. With the way he go about it, he'd probably be worse than Danzo and Kaguya.

    Sympathy for the Devil can only go so far. Yes, you can sympathize with what he's been through but it does not mean you can say that whatever they're doing is right. Sympathy for villains are constantly misused. Heck, it was attempted on Madara just so people can like him more because he's that image of a cool looking villain that does all this amazing feats. *CoughsSephirothcoughs*
    Last edited by Kazuki Mirai; 2nd October 2014 at 5:12 AM.

  22. #26097
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    I'm not going to bother responding to everything, because frankly I'm not invested enough in the argument to bother, but I will reply to this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post
    At best, Naruto would only be able to watch over them for a few decades before he dies, and that's if he doesn't have greater duties to concern himself with like leading a village. And competence really doesn't matter when there are a dozen or so ways to catch them.
    It isn't Naruto's job to watch over them; it's his job to give them a place to meet with one another. Presumably, the Tailed Beasts will (with exceptions like the Eight-Tails, who seems intent upon bunking with Killer Bee again, and Kurama for obvious reasons) be responsible for themselves. Couple that with the fact that the Kages are most likely on the same page of not wanting to weaponize the Tailed Beasts anymore, and I'd say it's not a prevalent enough issue to warrant exterminating them entirely.

    And why does it matter how long Naruto will be around for? One of the carrying themes of the story has been passing the torch to the next generation; one would assume that Naruto would arrange for somebody to take his place (in at least some capacity; I can't see him stuffing parts of every Tailed Beasts' Chakra into somebody new) before it reaches that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    And why does it matter how long Naruto will be around for? One of the carrying themes of the story has been passing the torch to the next generation; one would assume that Naruto would arrange for somebody to take his place (in at least some capacity; I can't see him stuffing parts of every Tailed Beasts' Chakra into somebody new) before it reaches that point.
    Kishimoto seemed to be grooming Konahomaru for that spot quite well, or at least up until the pain arc at any rate, he was always one step right behind naruto. And he's a logical successor given his relation to Hiruzen. I don't remember the last time we seen him though, I think he might've shown up in the war somewhere?
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  24. #26099
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    Just shut up and fight already

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Kishimoto seemed to be grooming Konahomaru for that spot quite well, or at least up until the pain arc at any rate, he was always one step right behind naruto. And he's a logical successor given his relation to Hiruzen. I don't remember the last time we seen him though, I think he might've shown up in the war somewhere?
    I was thinking a would-be son or daughter for the Uzumaki bloodline (I honestly can't remember if it was said that the Uzumaki longevity was a necessity to be Kurama's Jinchuriki, or just a consistent trait among all his Jinchuriki), but I'd love to see it be Konohamaru.

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