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Thread: Naruto: The end is here.

  1. #26201
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    Orochimaru came back so that the Hokages could come back. The Hokages were generally an important part of the final battle. His presence now is pointless and Kishi probably won't even get back to him before the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    Orochimaru came back so that the Hokages could come back. The Hokages were generally an important part of the final battle. His presence now is pointless and Kishi probably won't even get back to him before the end.
    They could have just made Kabutomaru do it. He's mastered Edo Tensei a lot better then Orochimaru did. But then we'd have to go through all the crap of them being sealed and junk. It's still all stupid. And I still question the involvement of the dead Hokage. In the end it was still Naruto and Sasuke who save the day. Instead of showing the alliance backup Naruto and Sasuke they have to drag the dead Hokage from the graves like some bad fanfic where suddenly they are more powerful then when they originally were, minus like Hiruzen. This is when the war arc went to it's crappiest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shneak View Post
    The Hokages were generally an important part of the final battle.
    I actually disagree. Most of their fights were off-screen and I felt that aside from Minato and Hashirama, the dead Hokage were completely redundant and should have never been revived.

  4. #26204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Well lucky for Sasuke, Naruto wasn't in Sage Mode at the very end there or he'd be stoned right now.
    Not sure that would have been a problem. Remember, Sasuke knows how to employ natural energy too, via the Cursed Seal and his recent power-up. In addition, he has Hashirama's cells.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    Having constant conflict is not the only way the ninja system can live; its just what sasuke sees as the best way to fix the issues. A somewhat fair view point, but in all honesty, it stagnates the development of a nation and uses way to much fear on its citizens. I guess if you're that cynical you could argue its the only way, but this war has pretty much turned the ninja world on its head zzz. I'm sure that with the recent happenings (aka the war that almost wiped them all out), the gokages will be willing to implement policies for peace that will stick over time, even after they're dead.
    It is the only way the current system can live, the series makes this clear. The villages are their nation's military force, paid specifically to be their standing army. In addition to that, the villages get paid for taking missions, the most expensive of those being assassinations and espionage, things that can't/shouldn't exist in a peaceful world. If the villages don't take these missions, they will begin to dwindle: this is exactly what was happening with Suna in Part One. They were losing missions to Konoha and even their own Daimyo was beginning to depend on Konoha for work. They were going bankrupt (only being saved by the Kazekage's ability to make gold) and didn't have the resources to train their own forces, resulting in them having to make the most of the few they had. It was that reason they turnt Gaara into a Jinchuuriki, and it was that reason that they eventually decided to team up with Orochimaru and go to war with Konoha.

    The point is, that if there is no longer any war, there is no longer any reason for their to be ninjas or ninja villages. There is no other point to the ninja villages except this - being their nation's military. That is literally what they train their children for from the start, to fight and kill. They don't have any other purpose. The Kages aren't anything more then generals, under the rule of the Daimyos. Even when the villages were at "peace", they were still plotting and working against each other, still building up arms in the case of Kumo and Iwa.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    And Naruto will bring peace, not that it'll outright loose it once he's gone. I dont know how you got the implication it isn't possible after he dies, he just has to do his job.

    Once Naruto has brought peace I'm sure other people can continue it.
    For Naruto to bring peace, that would mean the elimination of the ninja system, and that doesn't appear to be what he's working towards. Jiraiya, Minato, and Nagato all pointed out that there can't be peace with the current system, and the Rikudou Sennin explained that ninjutsu was what was causing the problem. You can't have the ninja villages still going around fighting and killing each other and believe that there will be peace.

    The thing is, maintaining peace is far harder then ending it. To maintain it, everyone has to work at it, but to end it only requires a single person. It's the whole idea behind the cycle of hatred.
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  5. #26205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    I actually disagree. Most of their fights were off-screen and I felt that aside from Minato and Hashirama, the dead Hokage were completely redundant and should have never been revived.
    the only thing hashirama did was talk to sasuke(which ended up failing miserably) and give speeches to the alliance...minato and tobirama were the only ones who actually put in any work in stopping both obito and madara

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    the only thing hashirama did was talk to sasuke(which ended up failing miserably) and give speeches to the alliance...
    He gave the entire backstory of how he and Madara met and how Konoha was formed; that's more important than Tobirama's Uchiha prejudice or teleportation stunts that Minato showcased better anyway imo.

  7. #26207
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    I don't think anybody would disagree that the idea to bring the hokages back was bad, but I do agree that hokages were pretty important part of the war. They were a part of almost every war chapter since they were revived, and the Obito fight in particular would have been drastically different without them. Plus the aforementioned hashirama/madara backstory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    He gave the entire backstory of how he and Madara met and how Konoha was formed; that's more important than Tobirama's Uchiha prejudice or teleportation stunts that Minato showcased better anyway imo.
    That was important to expand on Madara, Hashirama, and Konoha's history. That was okay, even though I complained about the placing of the story telling, but it should have ended there. Having them go to fight with the others just made this feel more like a fanfic then a real Naruto chapter. I am not a fan of characters coming back from the dead in general, only in certain situations do I accept it. Here was not one of them. Again I would have gladly have taken members from the alliance like Sakura, Kakashi, Lee, Shikamaru and the like all being Naruto and Sasuke's backup for the fight, instead of relying on these dead old fossils to save everyone. Well Minato died pretty young, so he's not a fossil. And of course Hashirama, Tobirama, and Minato all got upgrades. Hashirama and Tobirama were nowhere near that powerful when they were Edo Tenseied the first time. And Minato had to turn into a Naruto rip-off just to be relevant in this fight. I love Minato, but the fact that Kishi made him a Naruto clone tells you regular Minato can't hang with the big boys.
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  9. #26209
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    The Hokages were effective in small instances. Naruto and Sasuke handled most of it but they wouldn't have survived without the FTG technique and the barriers.

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  10. #26210
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    Quote Originally Posted by TsukiMirage View Post

    For Naruto to bring peace, that would mean the elimination of the ninja system, and that doesn't appear to be what he's working towards. Jiraiya, Minato, and Nagato all pointed out that there can't be peace with the current system, and the Rikudou Sennin explained that ninjutsu was what was causing the problem. You can't have the ninja villages still going around fighting and killing each other and believe that there will be peace.

    The thing is, maintaining peace is far harder then ending it. To maintain it, everyone has to work at it, but to end it only requires a single person. It's the whole idea behind the cycle of hatred.
    you're going to have to define the "ninja" system for me, cause thats waaaaay to broad. The whole thing is broke? You can't salvage anything or change specific details along with a renewed spirit? zzz

    And presuming Sasuke is going to be the darkness and use scare and kill tatics, that doesn't change much at all. zzz He would be doing the killing instead of people, assuming his plan even worked. (though I'm speculating on sasuke's specific actions, you aren't doing much different for naruto. You cant say for sure how he's going to go about it.)

    I thought it was cycle of revenge? Well regardless, revenge can still be there, the people just need to learn to look the other way when its detrimental to keeping general peace, that's really it.
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  11. #26211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I am not a fan of characters coming back from the dead in general, only in certain situations do I accept it.
    I'm not a fan of that either. In which type of situations do you accept it?

    And Minato had to turn into a Naruto rip-off just to be relevant in this fight. I love Minato, but the fact that Kishi made him a Naruto clone tells you regular Minato can't hang with the big boys.
    That was a pretty big problem for me. Not just the fact that it makes Minato kind of lame and not live up to his legend in my opinion, but more importantly because it takes away one of the things that made Naruto unique. In fact, I don't really like the fact that so many characters just kind of borrow techniques and personalities and lives from their parents and teachers, not to mention the whole Kage nepotism thing going on. I like that there are recurring themes throughout the generations, but I feel that Kishimoto takes it way too far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    And Minato had to turn into a Naruto rip-off just to be relevant in this fight. I love Minato, but the fact that Kishi made him a Naruto clone tells you regular Minato can't hang with the big boys.
    To be fair though, Kishi lost pretty much all his creativity for making each character's jutsu unique in the last phase of the war arc, so Minato wasn't the only one who became reductive in terms of jutsu usage and variation. :x

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    I say the last creative character was Pain.

    I mean, after that, it was all downhill. Especally with all the eye swapping and hax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamex View Post
    I'm not a fan of that either. In which type of situations do you accept it?


    That was a pretty big problem for me. Not just the fact that it makes Minato kind of lame and not live up to his legend in my opinion, but more importantly because it takes away one of the things that made Naruto unique. In fact, I don't really like the fact that so many characters just kind of borrow techniques and personalities and lives from their parents and teachers, not to mention the whole Kage nepotism thing going on. I like that there are recurring themes throughout the generations, but I feel that Kishimoto takes it way too far.
    In which situations do I accept characters back from the dead? When the character shouldn't have died in the first place and they do it for pointless drama. That's stupid. Basically a lot of Marvel and DC comic deaths. They always kill off characters that don't need to die and still have a story to tell and the characters that might as well be killed off still linger on. It frustrates me. If you want a actual name, there's Stephanie Brown.

    Anyway back to Minato, I found his powerup a clear message that regular Minato wouldn't cut it in this fight. To be fair it's true. What could Minato have done? Teleport around Trolldara? If Naruto's Rasengans can't stop Madara then Minato's imperfect Rasengans sure as heck wouldn't. Minato was a big deal in part 1 and I see why. Back in part 1, Minato's moveset would have made him a true top shinobi. In part 2, too many broken powers and uber Bijuu and Uchiha crap make certain characters invincible. Especially in the case of the Uchihas. Minato to me is like Kakashi. A master shinobi, one of the best. But that's the problem. He's a master "shinobi" but Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, and Hashirama are like gods in the war. So being a shinobi means nothing in part 2. So in a way the upgrade made sense, but I still dislike it, because it ruins Minato's legacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Anyway back to Minato, I found his powerup a clear message that regular Minato wouldn't cut it in this fight. To be fair it's true. What could Minato have done? Teleport around Trolldara?
    Well, in Minato's defense, I think his Flying Raijin was helpful in the war. He used it defensively and offensively several times. But yeah, it wasn't enough to make him match up with the other top players in the war at all. That was a silly reason to give him Naruto's only completely unique technique though.

  16. #26216

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    I really don't think Sasuke's going to go through with his attack in the last chapter, it's just a hunch. I think we'll be getting a few pages worth of flashbacks as he starts his attack, but then after the flashback ends he'll stop right before his hand goes through Naruto, pretty much like in those flashbacks from the past couple of chapters when they were younger at the academy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawn+Serena Fan View Post
    I really don't think Sasuke's going to go through with his attack in the last chapter, it's just a hunch. I think we'll be getting a few pages worth of flashbacks as he starts his attack, but then after the flashback ends he'll stop right before his hand goes through Naruto, pretty much like in those flashbacks from the past couple of chapters when they were younger at the academy.
    I kinda hope that happens to show that Sasuke still has some humanity in him. It may be cliche, but I'd rather see the manga end with Sasuke redeeming himself a bit.

  18. #26218
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    It would also show Naruto never truly surpassed Sasuke if the only reason he lives is because Sasuke spares him again. I will be disappointed if Naruto has nothing to stop the Chidori and Sasuke just spares him. It basically means Naruto's entire journey to get strong to face Sasuke was a waste of time because in the end, Sasuke was still greater just like in part 1 and basically Sasuke could kill him whenever he feels like it. But considering this series is ending with such crap, I wouldn't put it past Kishi to do it like that. I don't care anymore. Just give me my Team Minato spinoff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    It would also show Naruto never truly surpassed Sasuke if the only reason he lives is because Sasuke spares him again. I will be disappointed if Naruto has nothing to stop the Chidori and Sasuke just spares him. It basically means Naruto's entire journey to get strong to face Sasuke was a waste of time because in the end, Sasuke was still greater just like in part 1 and basically Sasuke could kill him whenever he feels like it. But considering this series is ending with such crap, I wouldn't put it past Kishi to do it like that. I don't care anymore. Just give me my Team Minato spinoff.
    Hello Sasuke stole Naruto's chara so if Sasuke didn't took his tail beast chara then Naruto would have won. It doesn't make Sasuke stronger only cheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    Hello Sasuke stole Naruto's chara so if Sasuke didn't took his tail beast chara then Naruto would have won. It doesn't make Sasuke stronger only cheep
    That's not cheap, that's strategy. The strongest don't always win, the smartest do. Sasuke was just using his powers to the best of his advantage and now he has got the upper hand on Naruto. A win's a win. Doesn't matter what you did to obtain it. There's a winner and a loser.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    That's not cheap, that's strategy. The strongest don't always win, the smartest do. Sasuke was just using his powers to the best of his advantage and now he has got the upper hand on Naruto. A win's a win. Doesn't matter what you did to obtain it. There's a winner and a loser.
    If a win is a win regardless, then why would it be controversial if Sasuke stops his attack and Naruto wins by default?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    If a win is a win regardless, then why would it be controversial if Sasuke stops his attack and Naruto wins by default?
    Sasuke stopping his attack doesn't mean he lost. It means he's sparing Naruto. You know, like how in part 1 Sasuke could have killed Naruto but choose to keep him alive. Sasuke still won the fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    Sasuke stopping his attack doesn't mean he lost. It means he's sparing Naruto. You know, like how in part 1 Sasuke could have killed Naruto but choose to keep him alive. Sasuke still won the fight.
    But what if Naruto takes advantage of Sasuke's hesitation and counter attacks and wins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorde View Post
    But what if Naruto takes advantage of Sasuke's hesitation and counter attacks and wins?
    Well then that's different. But you and I both know they'll more then likely go the "Talk No Jutsu" route if Sasuke hesitates. It'll be a win for Naruto, but only because Sasuke's not as cold blooded as Kishi intended him to be.
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    Chapter comes out tomorrow, its an early release.

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