Naruto: Post Timeskip Disscussion (Warning Intense Spoilers!)

[TsukiMirage]

But didn't Minato claim that he knew things that had happened in the real world while he was sealed in Naruto (like Jiraiya's death for example)? If so, he should have known about Orochimaru's defection and all the other stuff he started afterwards.

That was the portion Minato had left behind in Naruto, which got used up after the incident with Pain. Edo Minato shouldn't know anything about what happen after he did, though he should be aware that Orochimaru was a villain due to the whole Hokage conflict.

Put it this way, unanswered questions are WHY people read a story manga. The only reason I want to read the next chapter, is because of the questions introduced in previous ones. And you can't possibly say questions won't go unanwered in naruto. Take people wondering what became of obito for instance, well, low and behold some 300 chapters later what gets answered?

If you ask me, the biggest flaw of this arc is how much it does reveal. I would have rather the previous kages and ninjas lied in mystery then know every little detail.

I won't disagree with that, but that's not always the way it works with Kishi. Kishi has done that quite a bit, leaving things hanging. Outside the databook answering things, unless we have a character connected to said question, odds are it's not gonna get answered. What became of Obito wasn't really a question though, since we really didn't have any reason to believe he hadn't died.

Why is it a flaw? One would expect that a plotline we had since the very beginning would eventually get explained.

Either the Uchihas get some kind of magic mental illness for their bloodline limit, or generations of inbreeding have caused some major backlash on their sanity. Essentially the Uchihas are the manga version of the Targareyans.

Not really. Tobirama's prejudice is just that, prejudice. There were hundreds of Uchihas, yet only two became a threat to Konoha and only because they got manipulated by outside forces. His claims really don't hold much water.

[HoennMaster]

I have to admit the love thing was kind of a WTF moment. Hashirama's personality was kind of strange to see. Kind of weird to think he created Konoha and was so serious in battle.

I actually really dislike the way Tobirama treated his brother. I never expected him to be submissive to him or anything, but it was still really rude how he shut him up like that. And like I said before, any changes in Sasuke's attitude towards the village were pretty much shot down the moment Tobirama started bad-mouthing the Uchiha clan. It looks like it's up to Hashirama to explain things. Hopefully Sasuke won't disrespect him; he gets enough of that from his brother. :x

Also, just a quick comment, but how come Minato addressed Orochimaru as "Orochimaru-san"? Why use honorifics after the way Orochimaru betrayed the village?

In addition to what others said...Minato was a student of Jiraiya, so I assume he was acquainted with both Orochimaru and Tsunade.

[PokeMaster366]

I have to admit the love thing was kind of a WTF moment. Hashirama's personality was kind of strange to see. Kind of weird to think he created Konoha and was so serious in battle.

Well, in the end, a leader is simply a beacon of hope for his people. They could have many jutsu like Orochimaru or be uber-powerful like the Jinchuriki or Madara. They could even be as tactical as Shikamaru, but what's the point if the leader isn't concerned with helping his people? I doubt people will want a leader that they know will only use them as a means to an end.

[Locormus]

This power of love thing is stupid....

So, basically, when an Uchiha loses their love, it turns into DARKNESS and gives them bullcrap eye powers?

That's completely dumb.

If you love, you immediately also have the fear of losing said love, now.. in the words of Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. That is the path to the darkside!

Now add to that a predetermined genetic condition in which you actually have an overabundance of love, and a tendency to overreact when said love/caring goes away? I mean there's a reason why Darth Vader turned to who he was..

Interesting chapter. Expected the whole love angle, simply from how the relationships were shown, but don't know what to make of the whole "science" behind awakening the Sharingan. And Hashirama's personality is disappointing, way to much like Naruto's to be enjoyable. Tobirama on the otherhand was like I thought. Can't wait to hear what Hashirama and Minato tell Sasuke next. Good chapter.

I'm betting that when Hashirama is talking, somebody will spoil the beans about the war.. And I don't care enough for Minato to think what he might have to say, at least nothing valuable for Sasuke's sake..

I don't like the way Tobirama was portrayed; he basically admitted that he was prejudice against the Uchiha, which only made Sasuke angrier. Still, I loved Hashirama in this chapter; his comment about whether the village was fine with Tsunade as Hokage was funny, and it seems she inherited her gambling obsession from Hashirama himself.

We always knew that he was kinda prejudice against the Uchiha, it was just common logic considering the times. I really like how he tried to hold up his convictions when Orochimaru told him.. "Nonsense!"

I really didn't like the first much in this.. I have to side with Suigetsu on this one.. How the heck can this be the guy that persuaded the Uchiha to stop fighting and join them (their sworn blood enemies) in the creation of a village.

Arrgh! I had no idea a new chapter was out today. I just found out. I don't keep up with release dates. The chapter was alright. I liked that the 3rd Hokage realized he died in vain because he did and I enjoyed the 1st Hokage's personality. Much more personality when he first was Edo Tenseied that's for sure. I actually like that the 2nd Hokage is a jerk. He feels real. Not everyone in Konoha is going to be a kiss up. I also enjoyed him being annoyed seeing Orochimaru again. "This Orochimaru guy again?" That was great. The explaining stuff was a bit boring, the whole love equals Sharingan thing. Yeah, sure, whatever. Minato didn't really say much this chapter. Overall a decent chapter and I like that Tobirama was a jerk to the Uchiha's. Not everyone in Konoha is a saint.

That's not what's written at all.. It's extreme anguish, caused by overflowing caring emotions turning to hate = Triggering of Genetically specific Chakra => Sharingan. Meaning it's quite the opposite of love = sharingan. Breaking hearts, and reacting with aggressive emotions = Sharingan. It's basically Kishi trying to talk-no-jutsu is into believing that the Uchiha aren't really that bad at all and are caring and loving deep down inside.

Like I said: Darth Vader. And don't forget what happened to him!

Two things. The hokage's personalities and the explanation of the Uchia clan were great to me.
the personalities were great, but as for the explanation...

Gosh, it feels like a genetic disorder that the Uciha have. Any person that is remotely unstable with emotions will likely break and create powerful eyes to express their emotions. The sharigan itself is what is really bad D:...

Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-

Either the Uchihas get some kind of magic mental illness for their bloodline limit, or generations of inbreeding have caused some major backlash on their sanity. Essentially the Uchihas are the manga version of the Targareyans.

As soon as I read 'inbreeding' I knew you were going to play the GoT-card.. xD

[EmphaticPikachu]

Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-

Gives a new meaning to
"http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedEyesTakeWarning"
I guess...xD;

[miles0624]

So Sharigan is the Naruto version of Darth Vadar. Nice

Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

I liked the interactions between the hokage. It was awesome. I mean, if you had been revived by this type of justu, and had free will, I would love to meet my decendants too. Fourth interacting with the first is nice.

I actually like the contrast between the first and second personality. I sure he is serious when he needs to be (as seen per flashbacks and when giving the control of the village to the third), but I find it awesome that he can have this comical side. Plus the way his brother talks to him is a lot like my younger brother talks to me. Reacts the same way I do too.

I give the chapter a pass. Love sasuke proclaiming he is not innocent. I was like "I knew Karin took his virginity." lol. ok, I'm out.

[Heldigunner1]

i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

[Shadow Lucario]

Also, for the God of ninja, I thought it was explained earlier that title is given to all hokage. I remember watching that on a toonami episode just a few weeks ago, so its back in the beginning. It said something along the lines of, "Hokage, also known as the God of Ninja, are the leader of our village, and each village has a distince leader." (paraphrase.) So I think that is given to each of the heads of villages.

No, the nickname God of Shinobi has only been given to three (I thought only two) people. Those people are the Sage of the Six Paths, Hashirama, and Hiruzen. The heads of the villages are just Kages.

i always thought the edo tensin couldn't effect you if you lost your soul, in the case of the 3rd and the 4th. i guess i was wrong.

That was explained the chapter before this most recent one.

[Shneak]

Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

[Ciccone]

Frankly, I'm glad that Sasuke's dark turn against the Konoha is literally a mental illness. It redeems his character a bit, since he didn't exactly turn into a brooding emo by choice.

I don't think it's a mental illness per se though. I think the Uchiha just have very powerful emotions, which has been known for a while. I actually kind of like the fact that the Uchiha value love above all else and become crazed when they lose that. I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

[Platinum fan.]

If you love, you immediately also have the fear of losing said love, now.. in the words of Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. That is the path to the darkside!

Now add to that a predetermined genetic condition in which you actually have an overabundance of love, and a tendency to overreact when said love/caring goes away? I mean there's a reason why Darth Vader turned to who he was..



I'm betting that when Hashirama is talking, somebody will spoil the beans about the war.. And I don't care enough for Minato to think what he might have to say, at least nothing valuable for Sasuke's sake..



We always knew that he was kinda prejudice against the Uchiha, it was just common logic considering the times. I really like how he tried to hold up his convictions when Orochimaru told him.. "Nonsense!"

I really didn't like the first much in this.. I have to side with Suigetsu on this one.. How the heck can this be the guy that persuaded the Uchiha to stop fighting and join them (their sworn blood enemies) in the creation of a village.



That's not what's written at all.. It's extreme anguish, caused by overflowing caring emotions turning to hate = Triggering of Genetically specific Chakra => Sharingan. Meaning it's quite the opposite of love = sharingan. Breaking hearts, and reacting with aggressive emotions = Sharingan. It's basically Kishi trying to talk-no-jutsu is into believing that the Uchiha aren't really that bad at all and are caring and loving deep down inside.

Like I said: Darth Vader. And don't forget what happened to him!



Nah, the sharingan ain't bad, it's just a symptom of a genetically predetermined set of chakra being released from the brain after being triggered. Don't hate the symptom, hate the underlying genetical illness! Don't hate the oral rash when the patient has Wegener's.. -.-



As soon as I read 'inbreeding' I knew you were going to play the GoT-card.. xD

Oh? Is that how it works? I guess I was so bored with the thing I overlooked what the Sharingan was with love and junk. I admit that part bored me. At this point I don't really care what makes the Sharingan or what it is. I'm just sick to death of the thing.


As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

[Ciccone]

As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

[gohan5]

I just wish they would turn that hatred inward instead of using it to harm others.

I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

[Platinum fan.]

Um, Shisui? And maybe Sasuke's mom and those two elderly Uchiha people. And if you ignore the massacre, I suppose Itachi might be considered innocent given his ideals.

For the record I do not count Itachi. Whatever the reason he still killed his entire clan including his mother who was suppose to be in on the whole takeover of Konoha. I wouldn't say she's 100% innocent either but she didn't seem evil at least. Shisui? I guess so. It's hard to remember every minor character in this series. I forgot Shisui even existed.

Edit: Itachi turned out not to be evil, and while he was trying to save the village it wasn't exactly innocent to kill his whole clan.

[TsukiMirage]

As far as the Uchiha's go, has there ever been a truly good one that was innocent? I use to call Obito that Uchiha but as we are seeing now, he's probably the worst one of them all along with Madara.

Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. All the others have been shown just like every other ninja. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

[Platinum fan.]

Literally innocent or "ninja" innocent, because there's a difference. So far the only real evil Uchiha has been Madara. Obito and Sasuke are evil, but only because they got manipulated into evilness.

True, but I'm talking about a Uchiha who had nothing to do with the supposed takeover/coup of Konoha or didn't get manipulated into evil. That was what I was saying about the Uchihas. They either kill eachother, betray their allies, or just want to take over. Evil is a point of view as is good. From the Uchiha's point of view the coup was seen as good to help their clan after all. But it seems every Uchiha is tainted with either being turned evil like with Obito and Sasuke or wanting a hostile take over like the other clans of the Uchiha. And then there's the wildcard Itachi. Itachi wasn't evil but even he had to make some rough choices like killing his family. I mean is there any Uchiha that wasn't involved in some dark story that involved bertrayl? It really is a cursed clan. I suppose Shisui as Ciccone mentioned.

[TsukiMirage]

Oh, I see. I would point out that the coup wasn't an attempt to take over or again, according to Itachi's flashback, it was a revolution to take back stolen political power. I don't believe anyone ever mentioned them wanting to control or rule Konoha. And Itachi only did what he did because Danzo threatened Sasuke, which was pretty much the same reason their parents didn't put up a fight.

The killing each other seems like it was only during Madara's era, as Sasuke's father warned him away from such power, and they created Izanami to counter fellow clansman who used Izanagi to change their fate. Anyway, it's not just Uchiha who get involved in betrayals and such. All the villages have such histories, including Konoha, who apparently has quite the dark history according to Kabuto and Itachi.

[Locormus]

I think Itachi is the only one among them that actually took that approach and it ended up killing him (well along with the burden of killing his clan and having the weight of the village on his shoulders).

Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

[7 tyranitars]

Hmm.. Now that we know that the Sharingan is actually a physical symptom of a bodily affect generated by overflowing feelings, maybe this is how we can explain Itachi's illness? As we can all now tell, giving into the overflowing emotions of anguish gives you the Sharingan and drives you down a dark path, further and further down as you go do to the specific chakra becoming more prevailing in your system.

Itachi, negated this feeling of overflowing emotions and didn't drop down that dark path. BUT, perhaps the Uchiha need that 'chakra' in order to cope with an underlying illness? Since Itachi pretty much stopped producing said chakra after gaining the Mangekyou Sharingan, could we assess that due to a lack of that specific chakra the underlying illness was given the oppurtunity to flourish?

Hence why Itachi was the only one we know of that became sick. He's pretty much the only Uchiha that didn't give into the path of hatred/induced with culmulating levels of specific sharingan inducing chakra.

If you don't go down the dark path as an Uchiha, you get overthrown by an inherent illness and die eitherway. If anything, it's pretty much dieing of 'heartbreak'.. In any case, if this is true: You either go down a darkpath, or die of illness.. If so, then we should all be able to conclude that the Uchiha are indeed cursed.

Shisui didn't either.

[Locormus]

Shisui didn't either.

Irrelevant, he killed himself.. :P