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  1. #1251
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    Wasn't there an old movie named Purgatory?
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  2. #1252
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    Here is the protestant view on Purgatory...

    Does God's Word teach about purgatory?
    NO! This is one of those ways in which the Bible and the Roman Catholic church differ.

    There is no mention of purgatory in the 66 books of the Bible, and since the orthodox biblical view of forgiveness assures redeemed sinners that their sins have all been paid in Christ, the doctrine of purgatory is rejected as an erroneous addition to the Bible.
    http://christiananswers.net/q-sum/sum-r005j.html


    Also, i do not believe I am a protestant. I'll tell you guys why later.
    Last edited by crobatman; 7th March 2007 at 6:31 AM.
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    I was gonna go to Tesco's with some mates (even though I have no money ) but I got my trousers caught on a bit of metal. Guess what happened next
    Annoying...
    Anywho, I laughed about it, and now I'm at home - just changed my trousers.

    Tommorow I go to a nearby town to see K - we're gonna go swimming, and I'm gonna give her some PS1 stuff for her flat. Should be cool - don't know what else we're going to do - just get some food and drink, talk and generally have a laugh.
    And don't say anything about datin - we're obviously not. OK?

    And I'm not particularly keen on ideas of eternal punishment - He loves us. That's all I sayin about this subject

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  4. #1254
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    Quote Originally Posted by crobatman View Post
    Here is the protestant view on Purgatory...

    Does God's Word teach about purgatory?
    NO! This is one of those ways in which the Bible and the Roman Catholic church differ.

    There is no mention of purgatory in the 66 books of the Bible, and since the orthodox biblical view of forgiveness assures redeemed sinners that their sins have all been paid in Christ, the doctrine of purgatory is rejected as an erroneous addition to the Bible.
    http://christiananswers.net/q-sum/sum-r005j.html


    Also, i do not believe I am a protestant. I'll tell you guys why later.

    That's why I'm saying, it's based on Biblical studies. Purgatory, in our eyes, is not an addition to the Bible. One of the biggest differences for Catholics from the other sects of the Christian religion, is that we kept the original Old and New Testaments, without adding or leaving out anything, which a few other sects have done with their versions of the Bible. I'm not looking for a debate or anything (far from it, being as young as I am, I'm really not all that good at winning in arguments) I'm just telling you what I was taught.
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  5. #1255
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    I found an article here that gives sort of a different view on what it means to be saved, and I'm not sure how to respond. While it seems plausible, it also seems as if the article is saying you need to do extra to go to heaven.

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...rch/29.72.html
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  6. #1256
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    Xtra, I will look at the article in a minute or two.
    Edit: After reading the article, it got me into my Critical thinking mode. We inherit eternal life when we ask Jesus into our hearts. When we let Jesus handle our life, and not follow the World, then we are truly following Him. God has adopted us because He loves us so very much. When Accepting Jesus, we obtain His love. soon we want to serve Him. I read some of the Comments on the Article to see what others said. Here is one that I liked.

    Ted Posted: March 07, 2007 7:59 AM

    To correctly interpret Jesus' pronoucements about eternal life we must consider the contexts. First of all, whom was Jesus speaking to? To Jews under OT Law. The New Covenant was not in play until Jesus sacrifice on the cross. Jesus included a works-oriented approach to God in keeping with his Jewish listeners' OT orientation. Had he spoken to them of the benefits of the New Covenant he would have left them stumped. They wouldn't have had the slightest idea what he was talking about. Salvation as per the New Covenant came about through Jesus' death (Remeber what he said about it at the "Last Supper?") Of course a new lifestyle is involved in becoming a Christian. Look at what Jesus told Nicodemus about the new birth. That means a new attitude toward life, something repeated throughout the Epistles (e.g., Rom. 6:1; 1 John 3:9).
    Starting the Christian Life is the beginning of a New Life transformed by God. read Romans 12:2


    Yellowhat, we use the same bible! Nothing was added or left out. I do not want to debate either because I was telling it from how i was taught by the Biblical view. Salvation is by grace, and not by works.

    Also, i do not believe I am a protestant. I'll tell you guys why later.
    I quoted myself! lol!
    I am a Baptist, and I do not believe I am a protestant because I have nothing to protest against. My beliefs have been around since the New Testament church was started by Jesus Christ himself. No human has the authority to tell me what to believe because only God can do that.

    also, i just found a wikipedia article on the denomination I am in. That is intersting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...st_Association
    Last edited by crobatman; 7th March 2007 at 6:02 PM.
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  7. #1257
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    Welcome new people! I'm not sure what the current topic is, so can someone tell me?
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  8. #1258
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    Well, we Xtra just added a new topic to discuss. Read the article he/she found.

    Also, We were talking about pergatory.
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    I Love Jesus!

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    Ok. *Goes to read article*
    My computer wouldn't let me read it....I found an article here that gives sort of a different view on what it means to be saved, and I'm not sure how to respond. While it seems plausible, it also seems as if the article is saying you need to do extra to go to heaven.
    From that it seems that the article was about doing extra stuff to get into Heaven. That wouldn't be true. All we need to do is believe that Jesus' death paid for our sins. That doesn't mean that we don't need to do good stuff, and be all evil. It says somewhere in James(I will find the verse) That "Faith without works, is a dead faith". So we still need to do good stuff, but we shouldn't worry about being perfect all the time. We should remember that Jesus' death has paid for all our sins, past and present, and that He is willing to forgive us.

    Purgatory?

    I'm sorry, but I don't believe in it. It says no where in the Bible that that place exists. And what Shigeru said about the robber on the cross, Jesus said,
    "Truly I say to you, that this day you will be with me in paradise."
    He didn't say, "You will eventually be with me in Paradise after you go to purgatory." So from that part of scripture, you can tell that it doesn't exist.

    Edit: Gray, do you want to join? If so, you're in.
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    "Awake, my soul, give me eyes to see the King exalted, deserving and worthy. Awake, my soul, give me words to speak among the nations proclaiming Your glory.
    OH, HOW YOU'VE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO ONE LIKE YOU! EVER FAITHFUL TO SUCH FAITHLESS MEN LIKE US!"
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  11. #1261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I Love Jesus!
    YAY!!! are you a member of the club?

    Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
    -Romans 3:19-24 (NIV, emphasis added)
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  12. #1262
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    ^Nice verses! What topic was that aimed at?
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    "Awake, my soul, give me eyes to see the King exalted, deserving and worthy. Awake, my soul, give me words to speak among the nations proclaiming Your glory.
    OH, HOW YOU'VE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO ONE LIKE YOU! EVER FAITHFUL TO SUCH FAITHLESS MEN LIKE US!"
    Wolves at the Gate - Awaken

  13. #1263
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    Salvation by Grace topic of course!

    pikawho?, when jesus said "today, you will be with me in paradise" is paradise different than Heaven or is it the same?
    Remember the story of the Rich man who went to Hell, and the Poor man who went to Abraham's Bosom? was Abe's Bosom a paradise separate from Heaven?
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  14. #1264
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    That's what I thought...

    I'm sure that He meant Heaven. Abraham's bosom? Can you give me the reference? I know the story, but it's been a while since I've actually read it.

    Edit: He might have been refering to the current Heaven. Because He said that there will be a new Heaven and a new Earth.
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    "Awake, my soul, give me eyes to see the King exalted, deserving and worthy. Awake, my soul, give me words to speak among the nations proclaiming Your glory.
    OH, HOW YOU'VE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO ONE LIKE YOU! EVER FAITHFUL TO SUCH FAITHLESS MEN LIKE US!"
    Wolves at the Gate - Awaken

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    here is something I found. http://christiananswers.net/dictiona...hamsbosom.html

    and for paradise:
    http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/paradise.html

    The Story I am refering to is Luke 16: 19 -31


    The Rich Man and Lazarus

    19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

    25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

    27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

    29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

    30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

    31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
    Last edited by crobatman; 7th March 2007 at 6:30 PM.
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    I've talked to jesus once in a dream. It was awesome.

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    ok gray, What was it like? I have never physically talked to jesus face to face. The night I was saved I remember a dream I had. I just remember a door being opened, and a light coming through it. I think it was just my imagination, but it was a cool dream.
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    Wow, really? That's pretty cool crobatman. For me there has only been two things in my dreams I've wondered about, however I really doubt either meant anything. In the first one (if it did mean something) I think it was the devil trying to pester me. Some bratty girl in black was telling me to give up anime and that God hated it and whatnot. I remember when I first had it, it troubled me a bit, but I eventually just tuned it out because it didn't seem right. The second one...it's actually something I've dreamed more than once. Like the ozone layer has disappeared (it's so weird, you can see totally into space) and there are always these meteors falling. They fall really close to me and I see them land nearby, but I never die myself or anything. It's so odd. At first I thought I dreamt it because of a movie, but anymore I've dreamt things similar and it's always about the same. Makes me wonder if it means something.

    Either way guys, I'm not worrying so much anymore (I even got some medicine because I obsess over the bad things with religion (like thinking I'm gonna go to hell...and no one likes to think about that)), but I just don't feel that "connection" with God still. And really, I don't see the point to living if I can't feel that connection. I can't even live properly if I don't feel that connection because instead I just feel down and uncaring. So as always, prayers to get me out of this time of immense pain would be nice...I wish this wouldn't happen so much. I understand God lets this happen to test us, but I've been tested about 20 times and I'm only 17. Don't know if it means anything or what, but I would like to just feel at one with God and enjoy my life A LITTLE (I mean sheesh, Job suffered, but even after he was done suffering he had nothing but happiness in his human life).
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  19. #1269
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    Just keep your eyes on Jesus, and do not look back. Its like one of the songs we sing in church. "Turn your eyes upon Jesus"

    I can reference a lot of songs to our activities.
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  20. #1270
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    ^How does that song go?
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    "Awake, my soul, give me eyes to see the King exalted, deserving and worthy. Awake, my soul, give me words to speak among the nations proclaiming Your glory.
    OH, HOW YOU'VE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO ONE LIKE YOU! EVER FAITHFUL TO SUCH FAITHLESS MEN LIKE US!"
    Wolves at the Gate - Awaken

  21. #1271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shigeru-kun View Post
    Wow, really? That's pretty cool crobatman. For me there has only been two things in my dreams I've wondered about, however I really doubt either meant anything. In the first one (if it did mean something) I think it was the devil trying to pester me. Some bratty girl in black was telling me to give up anime and that God hated it and whatnot. I remember when I first had it, it troubled me a bit, but I eventually just tuned it out because it didn't seem right. The second one...it's actually something I've dreamed more than once. Like the ozone layer has disappeared (it's so weird, you can see totally into space) and there are always these meteors falling. They fall really close to me and I see them land nearby, but I never die myself or anything. It's so odd. At first I thought I dreamt it because of a movie, but anymore I've dreamt things similar and it's always about the same. Makes me wonder if it means something.
    Don't know if this is a topic or anything... Meh...

    I had a really weird dream when I was around nine or ten. I was standing at the top of the stairs, and someone who looked like me (or maybe it was me???) walked in front of the bottom of the stairs. I must have thought that this guy was a clone, so I asked if he would come upstairs. Well, you don't want clones running around taking over your life, do you? Funny thing, I think he glared at me like I asked something really stupid. Told you it was weird.

    Either way guys, I'm not worrying so much anymore (I even got some medicine because I obsess over the bad things with religion (like thinking I'm gonna go to hell...and no one likes to think about that)), but I just don't feel that "connection" with God still. And really, I don't see the point to living if I can't feel that connection. I can't even live properly if I don't feel that connection because instead I just feel down and uncaring. So as always, prayers to get me out of this time of immense pain would be nice...I wish this wouldn't happen so much. I understand God lets this happen to test us, but I've been tested about 20 times and I'm only 17. Don't know if it means anything or what, but I would like to just feel at one with God and enjoy my life A LITTLE (I mean sheesh, Job suffered, but even after he was done suffering he had nothing but happiness in his human life).
    'When the going gets tough, the tough start growing'

    That describes it best. It's based on what God's role for you is, and only the one Person can know that. I don't know about what Job went through in the rest of his life after his only mentioned test in the Bible, but I might guess that he might have had other tests like that one as well.
    For what reason do we restrict our hearts so?

  22. #1272
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    Jesus told me to do something with my life. And then eat a big juicy melon

  23. #1273
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    I copied the article for your convience, Pikawho.

    Is it permissible to reopen the question of salvation? If we do, how will Jesus' teachings stand up to our inherited traditions?

    These questions came to me acutely not long ago. I was getting ready to preach. As the worship leader was finishing the music set, he offered some unscripted theological reflections. He said something like: "The only thing required of us is to believe that Jesus' blood saves us. Nothing more. It's nothing but the blood of Jesus."

    In my Baptist context, we've heard these thoughts a thousand times. The problem was that I had in my pocket a message in which Jesus himself had a very different answer to the question of salvation.
    The Big Question

    In reading through Luke, I had discovered that twice (10:25, 18:18) Jesus is asked, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?"

    In the first passage, Jesus turns the question back on the lawyer who asks it. The lawyer replies with the Old Testament commands to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself (cf. Mt. 22:34-40). Jesus affirms his answer: "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." The lawyer then tries to narrow the meaning of neighbor. So Jesus tells the unforgettable parable of the compassionate Samaritan, who proved to be a neighbor to a bleeding roadside victim.

    In Luke 18, Jesus responds to the same question, this time from the man we know as the rich young ruler, by quoting the second table of the Decalogue, forbidding adultery, murder, theft, and false witness, and mandating honor towards parents. His questioner says that he has kept these commandments, and Jesus proceeds to call on him to "sell all … and distribute to the poor." Jesus assures him, "You will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." The "extremely rich" ruler won't do this, and Jesus goes on to teach his disciples about how hard it is for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of God.

    Trying to be an honest expositor of the texts in front of me, I told the chapel students that morning that on the two occasions in Luke when Jesus was asked about the criteria for admission to eternity, he offered a fourfold answer: love God with all that you are, love your neighbor (like the Samaritan loved his neighbor), do God's will by obeying his moral commands, and be willing, if he asks, to drop everything and leave it behind in order to follow him.

    I concluded by suggesting that the contrast between how Jesus answers this question and how we usually do is stark and awfully inconvenient.
    Getting Radical

    In my Baptist tradition, especially, we direct people to "invite Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior," an act undertaken using a formula called the "sinner's prayer." Or we simply say, "Believe in Jesus, and you will be saved."

    But Jesus never taught easy believism. Whether he was telling the rich young ruler to sell all and follow him or telling a miracle-hungry crowd near Capernaum that to do the work of God was, yes, to believe on him (John 6:28-29), he called people to abandon their own agenda and trust him radically. Radical trust calls for both belief and action.

    I suggest that we tend to confuse the beginning of the faith journey with its entirety. Yes, believe in Jesus—that's the first step. Yes, invite Jesus into your heart as your personal Savior. Then, empowered by God's grace, embark on the journey of discipleship, in which you seek to love God with every fiber of your being, to love your neighbor as yourself, to live out God's moral will, and to follow Jesus where he leads you, whatever the cost.

    If Jesus is to be believed, inheriting eternal life involves a comprehensive divine assessment at every step along our journey, not just at its inception.

    Mediocrity and hypocrisy characterize the lives of many avowed Christians, at least in part because of our default answer to the salvation question. Anyone can, and most Americans do, "believe" in Jesus rather than some alternative savior. Anyone can, and many Americans sometimes do, say a prayer asking Jesus to save them. But not many embark on a life fully devoted to the love of God, the love of neighbor, the moral practice of God's will, and radical, costly discipleship.

    If it comes down to a choice between our habitual, ingrained ways of talking about salvation and what Jesus himself said when asked the question, I know what I must choose.
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    Gray, are you just here to make fun of us, or are you actually a Christian who wants to join?

    That describes it best. It's based on what God's role for you is, and only the one Person can know that.
    I guess that's a nice thing to think about. Whenever people suffer it means they will receive a lot of experience, faith, wisdom, etc. In my life I've went through a lot. In fact I think I've lost almost a year of my life to suffering (drove my parents crazy, I couldn't even function like a human being). Then again, I did ask God to give me ultimate faith in Him...maybe He decided to give it to me...*sweatdrops* Though now, although I'm happy if that is the case...oh man did I get more than I imagined.

    I don't know about what Job went through in the rest of his life after his only mentioned test in the Bible, but I might guess that he might have had other tests like that one as well.
    Not from what I know. After Job had went through his tests, God gave Job twice of what he had owned before. All these animals, wonderful daughters, success, etc. It even says he lived 140 years and got to see his great-great-grandchildern. Job may have suffered like heck, but God gave him a very wonderful life after he endured.
    Last edited by Shigeru-kun; 8th March 2007 at 2:48 AM.
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  25. #1275
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    Hey guys! What's the current topic?

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