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Thread: Advice for Aspiring Authors

  1. #41
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    The Keys to Writing



    Firstly I’d like to point out that this was first written as a review to help an up an coming writer I thought had a lot of potential and I thought it was so good I saved a copy, now I’m turning it into a Tutorial to help others on the way!

    Well, you know two magic words to devising a plot to your fiction, but what about fleshing it out? There is nothing in the world I hate more than Scripting, unless it’s a humour fiction. Scripting is for those who can’t be bothered putting a ‘he said’ on the end and it really doesn’t give any idea to what is happening. The goal of the writer is to paint a picture of what they see with words. The better you can describe what you see, the more enjoyable it is to read. For example

    Mary-Sue: Go Flamie
    Gary-Stu: Go Bubblish
    Mary-Sue: Flamie, use Firespin
    Gary-Stu: You can’t beat me! Use Bubble, Bubblish! Knock its lights out!
    The attacks hit each other and exploded.
    Mary-Sue: Fine Tackle attack and then a tail whip
    Gary-Stu: Dodge it


    Oh for gawds sake! That was painful just writing it and so boring to read! That is the epitome of laziness!

    But, I’m going to help you fix that problem. Firstly open your Word Document, I use Microsoft Word open in Web View, via View-> Web Layout. I write in size ten Tahoma because I know that if I can fill three lines I can at least have a decent picture of what’s happening.

    Writing is divided into three keys: Description, Action and Emotion. If you know how to use these it can make the world so much easier.

    Description: This is the most important! Describe everything, every little action, item, person! The idea of writing is to get people to see what you see, like a little movie in your head. The best way is to describe.

    Don't say: “Well than, come inside” he said and held the door open for them.

    Say, “Well then!” Professor Oak exclaimed brightly, opening the large wood panelled door wide open giving a clear view of his quaint living quarters. Leaning in eagerly they could see plush couches of red velvet and a Wurmple woven mats laid carefully on the smooth wood. But at the top of the stair’s they saw a door left curiously ajar, with the red carapace face of a Kingler bubbling at them.

    See, that works heaps better! I managed to fill four lines, and I always make myself fill at least three per paragraph and one per line of dialogue. Use as many adjectives as possible and use the five senses to help. I mean, you don’t have to say the Kingler looked mighty tasty, or you could if you were feeling a little peckish, but you could it gurgled happily with the faint briny smell of the ocean seemed to float around it.

    Wait we don’t even know what our characters look like. I could just go ahead and say Jace has brownish black hair in a ponytail and brown eyes or I could do it subtly.

    The glare of the morning sun beat down on the small but busy town of Pallet. Already people were bustling about their daily chores but none more anxious than a very short 13 year old girl, shifting pacing anxiously outside an immense white wash building known throughout town simply as The Lab.

    She paused her pacing in front of the door, roughly shoving back a strand of her long browny black hair that was always escaping her customary ponytail and into her muddy brown eyes. The sky would fall and Spoink would fly before her hair came out of that ponytail, she even slept with it in. She was the total tomboy her younger brother claimed her to be, dressed in her favourite, daggy blue shorts and Hawaiian shirt at least four sizes too big, so long it almost covered her scabby knees and elbows.


    Whoa! See that! Out of about a dozen words I stretched it out to two paragraphs simply by making little comments that also gives a bit of a clue to her personality! You just have to see it clear enough to describe it!



    Action: Keep in mind that no matter what's happening, something is always moving, your character, your scenery, even their eyes are skitting from person to person.

    So when:

    This is the moment I’ve been waiting for my whole life” Jace beamed and chose the last Pokeball.
    “Wonderful” proclaimed Professor Oak “Go and enjoy your journey. Oh, I almost forgot take these five extra Pokeballs so you can start building your collection”
    “Thankyou very much” Adam said.
    “Yeah, thanks heaps” Jace added.
    “Me too, see you soon” Ashlee told him.
    “We’ll call you as soon as we get to Viridian city” said Adam and the three turned and started walking out.




    Or it could be:

    Jace stared with barely check anticipation at the last, polished Pokeball, gleaming almost enchanted on the sterilized silver table.
    “I’ve been waiting for this moment my whole life,” she said breathlessly, picking it up in both hands and admired it as it sat with its button lenses winking at her sitting in her cupped fingers. “It’s perfect.”
    “Wonderful!” exclaimed Professor Oak with obvious relief there hadn’t been any fights, which was happened so regularly he should have also taken up a sports refereeing course those many years ago at University. Still smiling warmly he fished three plastic packets from the deep white pockets of his lab coat already prepared. Inside each were five compressed Pokeballs for the trainers to be. “I almost forgot! Take these, they’ll come in handy on the road to Viridian.”
    Three greedy hands snatched them away lickity split and he chuckled to himself.
    “Thankyou very much!”
    “Yeah, thanks heaps!”
    “Me too!”
    The voices chorused with foolish grins. This is what he loved most about his job, you couldn’t get such innocent appreciation anywhere else.



    And once again I’ve managed make you see the picture much clearly in your head. Try to drag everything out as much as possible. I always keep my rule in mind, three lines per paragraph and one and a half lines per dialogue. It forces you to describe what you see in your head.

    Emotion: This is the last one and basically encompasses all adverbs, as in 'said unhappily, thought slyly.' It gives an insight into the characters personality because it’s how they react to different things. So one character may 'shimmied enthusiastically through the branches, with his less cheerful companion lumbered half way up, folding his arms stubbornly refusing to go any further.'

    You don't always have to say 'he thought' you can imply it through your writing. As in ' he rolled his eyes in exasperation.

    So what it really comes down to is, something happens, and describing what your character thinks of it.

    And voila, short and sweet, I hope it helps



    Caboose I swear to god, if you say anything positive I will kill all three of us right now! ~Church, currently Red vs Blue Obsessed!

  2. #42
    Dilasc Guest

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    Description, even in a great amount is never a bad thing. Its kind of like water, enough of it is good for you, but too much drowns the world. So, personally, I drown the world with description, but I do so while doing more than describing. Namely, I add the description as an aside that goes alongside of a more important aspect of the plot. It helps paint a vivid image, and back to the water, it makes it crystal clear.

    Suffice to say, I tend moreso to carry myself overboard when it comes to human/pokemon emotion, which is anything but bad and very important to ensure that not one bloody Mary gets into my fic. Otherwise that character gets... bloody, mwahaha!

    Anyway, the point is that description is a dangerous force of power, that should not be tampered with too deeply unless you know how to control and manipulate it.

  3. #43
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    Question #1: Well, about Legendaries, should characters make contact with legends, and if so, probably attempt to capture them? What if a legendary chooses to become a nobel trainer's Pokemon? If a trainer tries to capture a legendary, should the legendary be caught or evade?
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

  4. #44
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    Considering human nature, would you describe anyone as noble? If they were, I wouldn't read them as a character, it sounds so perfect. I'd like it better if the legend stumbled on this hopeless trainer, and like a mother is always waiting in the shadows, following from behind to save him in some way... even so the writer would be treading lightly. And why do people always refer to them in the anime singuarly? It would be pretty useless just having one of something.



    Caboose I swear to god, if you say anything positive I will kill all three of us right now! ~Church, currently Red vs Blue Obsessed!

  5. #45
    Dilasc Guest

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    Noble is a vague word to use. Sure we have our rare ursurpurer against the norm of corruption and money, but its nearly impossible to be noble mainly because a such person could never manage in society if he has no money, and we all know that money is evil, or should now know that it is anyway.

    Regardless, I'd not touch a legendary with a ten foot pole. I may stab it multiple times with a ten foot pike and THEN you can have any haphazard sleezeball trainer leash it up so long as you remember its got bloody craters in its body that will never heal and as such you've lost to a new born magikarp. Suffice to say, that's an extreme, but I ALWAYS take things to the extreme if they illustrate a point.

    Now, lets reverse the situation, we turn the trainer into vegetable salad and we have Mewtwo in its 00berestness eva! Lol! Bleh! 1337speak is getting to my head... anyways. This situation is tough. There's a sentient and agile pokemon with the power to defeat the planet Jupiter in an arm wrestling contest and have enough time to get to get together with his buddies and bully Saturn because, well, its COOL to be a bully. However your trainer has no access to any of his 8 billion/trillion senses and is practically as efficient at making heat energy as a carrot eternally at absolute 0.

    Things are similar, unless of course the legendary is the trainer, by which I mean he's your every day moron who cant realize his underwear is not a way to stop ozone depletion by flinging poptarts into the upper stratosphere (and such a waste of poptarts). However, it's Mar-Suemon and Mar-Suemon can do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Why when Mar-Suemon burps, people instantly rip off their skin and use their last moments of life to work it into a fine pair of leather shoes, cozy and efficient. Mar-Suemon can get 9000 badges while exploring the never to be known universe in half an hour and not even need to cheat by using relativity factors that come into play when the speed of life is nearly attained and then passed. This of course is while saving world hunger, except that Mar-suemon burped and therefore got more leather to fashion. Then of course Mar-suemon pouted and the audience goes 'awww' which suddenly brings everyone back from an afterlife where football collides most stupendously with Jesus Christ, Buddah, Benjamin Franklin, Aristotle, Carmen Electra, Genghis Khan, Spiderman, and some alien-peoples from places who we could hardly give a dang about and with things we dont care about because we're human and only care about other humans (and pokemon because we're a shallow bunch). It means a wild party loaded with booze, because hey, I'm guessing we're wasted... our time reading that, that is to say! Of course, every good pokemon knows how to leash his trainer, the problem is they dont have the hand capacity or the lack of resistance to put the leash on. But Mar-Suemon could get the Hulk on a leash without even breaking a sweat.

    The point? A legend is a legend is a legend... Im guessing its a legend! The point? Try to be realistic, and invite me to the next afterlife party so I can watch Honest Abe do his impersonation of the [current] president again while he's entoxicated and drinking Hercules and Ramses II under the table. So remember, regular pokemon may not be strong, but this is fanfiction, not nap time so stop putting me to sleep before I've conk myself out. Unless you could write the perfect story... which is bad because you'd have to be a living breathing Mary Sue, which means you're not worthy of life because perfect people are too boring to exist which is why nobody ever dared to birth a perfect person and pokemon in real life know it too, why do you think they know to only exist in the pokemon universe? They're too smart to ever get the chance to be real I tells ya!

    Ahem. If anyone has a brain seizure after reading all of that, then just remember that legendaries in the ball in your hand is a bad thing, and the ball in your hand is amaingly densely packed with life and light energy! Now, please drool your brains out in the trash bin as it makes an awful mess on the floor beneath you to not do so.

  6. #46
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    Dilasc, that post was friggin hilarious.

    Anyway, if your characters aren't gonna be extremely 2D (and hopefully, they won't), then there might not really be such a thing as a good or evil. If you make your antagonist deep, not wanna rule the world or slaughter or whatever for the hell of it, or they're not simply insane, then from their perspective, their view of how they want things to be is right and would conflict with the protagonist's sense of right and wrong (think of Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin), so try not to think of it as 'good vs. evil fights', just conflicts of interest. Conflicts of interest not only cause protagonists and antagonists to fight eachother, but also makes protagonists or antagonists fight amongst themselves. Of course, when they fight amongst eachother, conflicts don't usually get as extreme and lethal as a protagonist vs. antagonist conflict, but they still exist. There're still neutral people of course, those who just don't want to get involved, but such people obviously wouldn't fight against eachother side, except possibly in a manner of self-defense.

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

    I translate for #Pocketmonsters (just because I know Japanese does not make me Japanese, stop PMing me).

  7. #47
    Dilasc Guest

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    Hate to sound like I'm making a pointless bump, but I thought I'd offer some advice.

    I know it may be a bit unorthadox, but I dont care. Anyways, down to the point, can you, or your characters more exactly, 'Talk the Talk... grammatically correct!'

    He said, she said = he dead, she dead. To the point, that means that you you should watch what you have your characters do. To say 'Never end a dialog with the dull simplistics of <name> said' may be asking too much if you're creativity is not like mine. Then again, that's why I'm helping out. So what the heck do you do? You plug in better words, duh! 'Bellowed at the top of his lungs', 'replied curtly with brevity', 'was all he said before storming out with legs stomping the ground'. Notice that last example had the word said in it? I'll be damned if that word was potato, because it looked like said (even if in some alien language, said means potato). Well, did you notice a whole lot of poetic words around the word said in that sentence? Im sure you did if you have anh IQ of at least 25 and I think only 1 thing in the universe has an IQ below that... sedimentary rocks, though Igneus rocks have an IQ of 27, and cabbage of 27.3, and clipped toenails have 32.5, and it may surprise you to know that argon gas has an IQ of 454 on average, which is nthing compared to the Venutian IQ of 3075 and my imaginary friend Pooky is at 4198 for his intellectual quotent. Still, if you arent a sedimentary rock, you know what I'm saying.

    Now, those are only examples, and I dont expect them to be used, for that'd be copying me, and though imitation is the best form of flattery, a steamroller is the best form of flattening. Catch my drift? Of course, try to figure out what fits the situation reasonably. After all, dont have a 27 hour presidental campainathonapalooza and say that the 5 hour speech was brevity. If it was under an hour, then its a brief presidental speech, because we know how the 'most powerful men on earth' LOVE to hear themselves speak, even if they aint saying anything! Regardless, if a 5 hour speech is brief, then this dialog is brief, which means that the Sun WEARS briefs. Yet we all know damn well that the Sun wears boxers, and if that's the case, dont use the word breif if its not short. Likewise, dont say roaring in anger if its the happiest day in existance if such a thing exists when you consider how small and insignificant we all are. Aint I just the most exiting and optimistic person EVER to exist or have existed?

    Now, we know whats going around the words, but can your characters talk right? Or are you just writing the scripts for my next episode of LEET TV (Channel 1337, in story Dust to Deceit, by moi). Here's a good idea. What you think you want to say, say it! Talk to yourself, even if you get funny looks and a free straight jacket for doing so, just do it. Even if a gun is to your head... well maybe not then. If it makes sense, type it up! Provided, you better know that ebonics 24/7 is a no-no.

    Now, here's something you may or may not know. Time, the fourth dimension, is a relative. What's that mean? Well, it means really, just dont think about it or your extra shrunken, simple heads will explode! In fact, time is on your side! Thats right, the more time you take to think it over, the better off you'll be, as will your story if you actually put an effort into it.

    Anyway, now that you're all either bored, gaping mouthed, laughing, wierded out, or even dancing to the funky chicken, you now know a little more from an expert willing to help all those beneath him.

  8. #48
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    Ah, do you mind if I dispute a couple of your points, Dilasc? I just had some disagreements, is all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc
    To say 'Never end a dialog with the dull simplistics of <name> said' may be asking too much if you're creativity is not like mine. Then again, that's why I'm helping out. So what the heck do you do? You plug in better words, duh!
    ...And here's number 1. ^^;;; In my experience, constantly ending dialogue with long reams of vocal descriptors tends to give readers a headache; plus, it slows the pacing right down and takes attention away from what's actually being said. The word 'said' is so useful precisely because it's invisible - you don't even notice it's there. That leaves you free to concentrate on the dialogue itself. Which is not to say that it should be used at the end of every single line, but you get my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc
    'Bellowed at the top of his lungs', 'replied curtly with brevity', 'was all he said before storming out with legs stomping the ground'.
    See, if I were beta-reading a fic which had those lines in it, I'd probably tell the author to chop them down a bit. 'Bellowed at the top of his lungs' is alright, but 'replied curtly with brevity' is awkward and clunky. 'Brevity' means the same thing as curtness, so the second half of that sentence is just repeating information we've already been given in the first half. 'Replied curtly' would suffice. Same goes for 'storming out with legs stomping the ground' - an amount of stomping is already implicit in the 'storming' (and I don't see what else the guy could possibly be stomping except the ground, so that's another superfluous word right there), so why not just cut it all down to 'was all he said before storming out'? It gets the point across just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc
    Now, those are only examples, and I dont expect them to be used, for that'd be copying me, and though imitation is the best form of flattery, a steamroller is the best form of flattening.
    I think that attempting to copyright such common phrases might not get you very far. I'm positive that I've used 'bellowed at the top of his lungs' before (although I probably cut it down to just 'bellowed').
    Last edited by Jo-Jo; 14th January 2005 at 11:06 PM.
    Fic plugs: Taking a Chance (multi-chaptered, Contestshipping/Pokeshipping)
    Firelight (Christmas oneshot, Contestshipping)

    I adopted Drew Plushie from Ama's Collection

    ^ Adopted by moi. Innit CUUUTE?

  9. #49
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    I agree with Jo-Jo; while always using just said, said, said is horribly boring, it's just annoying if you always word things unnecessarily lengthily. If you can say the same thing in fewer words, by all means use the shorter one. Nobody wants to read a dialogue that's supposed to be heated but has abstractly enormous sentences (at least compared to how they could be) after each line.

    Chapter 63: Recovery
    The story of an ordinary boy on an impossible quest in a world that isn't as black and white as he always thought it was.
    (rough draft of the remaining chapters finished for NaNoWriMo; to be edited and posted)

    Morphic
    (completed, plus silly extras)
    A few scientists get drunk and start fiddling with gene splicing. Ten years later, they're taking care of eight half-Pokémon kids, each freakier than the next, while a religious fanatic plots to murder them all.

    Lengthy fanfiction reviewing guide / A more condensed version
    Read and I will be very happy for a large number of reasons.

  10. #50
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    Use whatever pokemon you want. Who says that certain pokemon dont live where you want them to live. You are the author you can decide where they find the pokemon. Just because the game sets pokemon in certain regions doesnt mean you have to. The show breaks pretty much every rule of the game, so you can find tauros in hoenn and wild rhydon. Of course thats just what I think.

  11. #51
    SilverBlaze09 Guest

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    Make sure it's believable, though. I mean, would you look for Seaking in a volcano? Or Rhydon on the seashore? If you do, either you or the pokemon is crazy. Put 'em where you'd look for them in real life. Take Magmar(an easy one). It has pokedex stats that state " ...its bodily colors enable it to blend in with its volcanic habitat" (yes, I know that's not exactly what it says, but the two or three words that are off don't count). You would epect to catch it in a volcano, not the Seafoam Islands beach resort, right? Of course, there are a lot of pokemon, like Pidgey, that, one way or another, can be found virtually anywhere(including Legendaries). And yes, I know there are a lot of others that can be found in multiple areas. All I'm saying is, keep it real. Or you'll end up searching for Goldeen in your bathtub(like my sister). Or on a quest to capture Blastoise, and you're looking for them in the big beach getaway of Verdanturf(like my brother). Or looking for Zubat in Sunnyville(hey, I was intoxicated at the time!). That's all I have to say(for the moment, at least). SB

  12. #52
    pretty pikachu Guest

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    hello. I've read this whole post & its helpfull!

    I am trying to write a fic about human/pokemon hybreds. this is my descreption of my main character, Violet. she's a psychic espeon/human. is this too much describing, not enough, or what?

    oh, by the way, we find out later why her hand hurts...


    She was about 14 years old. She wasn't very tall, but her ears made her seem taller. Sitting atop her head were two long cat ears; about five inches long. They were the same lavender color as her shoulder-length hair. She had a little bit of hair in front of her forehead, partially hiding the bright red ruby between her eyebrows. Her clothes were also purple, like her long cat tail that split in two near the end. She looked at her hand, which had quarter-inch retractable claws on each finger. Her hand- or paw, some might call it- had just been hurting her for no reason. But she knew why; she was psychic.

  13. #53
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    My 2 cents.

    Here's also a tip, these pokemon are extremely overused: Dratini, Larvitar, Pikachu, the starters, Eevee. Because of the flooding of many fics with those Pokemon repeatedly, it can be overlooked because of a common starter.
    All of the Eeveelutions are overused, particulary Umbreon because it dispenses ready-made angst (oh noz!!! my cute eevee is all ebil!!! rar!, or oh noz!!! i'm ebil now! rar!). Mewtwo is often quite similiar with the angst (oh noz!!! i'm a clone/i hate humans! rar!).

    About Mary-Sues: Pokemon can be Mary-Sues. Canon characters *cough*PIKACHU*cough* can be Mary-Sues. They are everywhere. They are in your stories (especially trainer fics). In your one-shots. In your house. Check for Sueism before you write, not after you're done 12 chapters and your char is already hopeless. Also: poor May and Brendan are mercilessly Sue-ified. If you have to give them a new character, please make them INTERESTING... ;_;

    One of the ways I try to avoid Sueishness and to add interest is to give someone flaws. The Seven Deadly Sins really help if you can't decide on something. In case you don't know, they're Pride, Lust, Anger, Envy, Sloth, Gluttony, and Greed. If you want to add one good feature to your bad guys, the Seven Virtues are Faith, Hope, Charity, Temperance, Fortitude, Justice, and Prudence - remember that your bad guys need good points too. I had an MS that I made into a developed char by using Pride (she's selfish) and Anger (she has a temper) - now she's not only more fun to write, she behaves like a real person.

    Aaaand that's all I have to say. Good luck with all your fics!

  14. #54
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    I don't really agree with the above. Flaws are nice, but giving a character flaws for the sake of giving them flaws is very fake. You shouldn't really think of a personality as a set of good things and a set of flaws. A personality is just a personality, and either it's a believable personality or not. Whether it's believable is supposed to be what you're thinking about, not whether you can list (insert number here) flaws in it.

    Chapter 63: Recovery
    The story of an ordinary boy on an impossible quest in a world that isn't as black and white as he always thought it was.
    (rough draft of the remaining chapters finished for NaNoWriMo; to be edited and posted)

    Morphic
    (completed, plus silly extras)
    A few scientists get drunk and start fiddling with gene splicing. Ten years later, they're taking care of eight half-Pokémon kids, each freakier than the next, while a religious fanatic plots to murder them all.

    Lengthy fanfiction reviewing guide / A more condensed version
    Read and I will be very happy for a large number of reasons.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfree
    I don't really agree with the above. Flaws are nice, but giving a character flaws for the sake of giving them flaws is very fake. You shouldn't really think of a personality as a set of good things and a set of flaws. A personality is just a personality, and either it's a believable personality or not. Whether it's believable is supposed to be what you're thinking about, not whether you can list (insert number here) flaws in it.
    [Agreeing with Dragonfree]
    Yes, I agree with that. Giving a character a personality with flaws and such can be quite tempting to make them not-believeable. Just Dragonfree said, a personality is just a personality. Flaws can add on to the personality, but just giving them some can be quite unrealistic; some people have more flaws than others, so why try to give the other one with more advantages more flaws? You should worry about making realistic character rather than one with flaws and advantages in your story.

    And this overused Pokemon stuff; I'll be a bit opinionated about this, but I don't think there is such a thing called 'overused and underused' Pokemon. A Fanfiction is a story, not something that has to be so diverse, so different from one another. For example, many people see Pikachu more as a Pokemon Idol or Hero, therefore, using him/her more. However, when they grace the walls, people are saying that they are overused and should have chosen another one. The thing is, Pokemon can be used as many times; the person using them can use them, because it is their story. You just can't classify Pokemon as those two titles, just because some are used more often. For example, if I want to use Pikachu in all of my stories, then I can because it is my story, not anyone elses. And if this part shouldn't be in here, please tell me. ^^ I went rambling a little, because I don't like to hear about overused and underused Pokemon in Fanfictions.
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

  16. #56
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    If you're writing just to get readers, then I'd say you're writing for the wrong reasons. Write because you want to write and because you enjoy it. It doesn't matter how popular you are; some people get only one or two readers in their first fic, if that, and then manage to find more readers after their second. Don't give up just because you feel like you're not popular - keep trying.

  17. #57
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    I found this posted in a LiveJournal community, and I think that it's the best definition of a Mary-Sue that I've ever come across. Now, I know that that discussion has sorta died down around here (for now *Jaws theme plays*), but I think that it should go in here because, really, it's an excellent definition for something intangible and difficult to describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladybirdsleeps
    The problem with defining what 'Mary Sue' means is that there are a lot of different ways for a character to be a Mary Sue. Mary-Sueism has more to do with an author's attitude towards her character than some checklist of Mary Sue traits. A Mary Sue is the author's pet, who's doted upon to the detriment of the story and the other characters.

    Mary Sue cannot be upstaged.

    I think that the best definition of Mary Sue - which doesn't work all the time, but works better than any of the others I've heard - is this: A Mary Sue is like a black hole that warps the fabric of the story, pulling everything into her orbit. Everyone either loves her or treats her cruelly, whether or not it's in character for them to even care. She gets away with things no one else would get away with. And so on.

    Or another definition: If you put Mary Sue on one end of a see-saw, and the rest of the story on characters on the other, Mary Sue would be heavier. She's out of balance for her story - she's too much of something. She's too powerful, she's too tragic, she's too brave, she's too smart, she's too loved or too hated ...

    Things that often get an original character labeled as a Mary Sue, like resemblance to an author, a floofy name, or special powers, aren't what makes a Mary Sue. It just happens that a lot of Mary Sue authors use 'special' traits to make their character seem cool, and resemblance to themselves as a way to get a little more vicarious wish-fulfillment.

    If you put a piece of yourself into many characters does that make them all Mary-Sues

    I've never heard this definition, even as fuzzy as the definition of Mary Sue is. Most fiction writers put a little bit of themselves into their characters, but they definitely aren't all Mary Sues.

    is a Mary-Sue someone you base completely off yourself?

    I don't think so. I would call that type of character a self-insert. Self-inserts are USUALLY Mary Sues in my experience, but I have seen them done occasionally without being Mary Sues. It's all a matter of balance.

    The child lives the lives others leave behind.

    Chapter 6 - Not Revenge - Posted 4/10
    Chapter 7 - Late-Night Hospital - Coming 4/28


  18. #58
    Aethyrial_Flame Guest

    Smile

    ^_^ Since this is such an intresting and useful topic, I thought that I'd add a few of my own thoughts.

    On the Mary-sue versus self-insertion front, it is IMPOSSIBLE not to, in some way, self-insert. A real, believable character is all the more real if the author has actually been through a similiar experience.

    E.g- a piece written about the death of a family member won't be able to fully encompass the consequences of that, unless the writer themselves has actually experienced it. Or, if your character has been abused (most often seen with bishie's that have a dark past, as their 'other half' needs to understand them) unless you yourself have been abused in a similiar way, you (and thence your readers) will never be able to see the sheer depth and long-reaching consequences that such a past entail.

    So, really, you CANNOT write a character wtihout self-inserting. You draw upon your own personal experiences, beliefs, values, and personality traits to make a character believable. Also, most writers I know base many characters off of friends and family, thus making said characters more 3-D, so to speak, because they are grounded in reality.

    Mary-sues have been discussed to the death, but, for the most point, I agree with Negrek. However, I have something to add ^_^ MS, I think, are also a way of compensation. In several of my fanfics, I write flaws in my characters, but it's hard to do- a lot of the time you simply want to gloss over the nastier aspects of their character.

    I myself hate people who look down upon others, are brash to the point of extreme rudeness, and are carelessly cruel. However, many people have those behavioural traits themselves in minute amounts, including me, so, in a way, my sub-conscious refusal to write them in my characters is a kind of penance for me.

    And next up.... ^_^ Tips for writing!

    I'm not sure if anyone else is like this, but I'm a somewhat noisy person. There's always someone around the house making nosie, or my menagerie is kicking up a fuss, whenever I'm working on something. So complete silence tends to distract me rather than help.

    Music is a good helper, though be careful with it; although it's great for loosening the barriers of your mind and helping you to write more freely, it does have it's side affects. Again, personally, I myself am very influenced buy what I hear, even if I'm not paying any attention to it.

    Music like Marilyn Manson, Linkin Park, and Evanessence tend to help me write more angsty, dark themed pieces, where's bands like Seal, Savage Garden, and artists Avirl Lavenge (early albums, Nobody's Home etc) and Michelle Branch put me in a kind of love-worn and seeking-love mood.

    Finishing for that section, Music is great for helping set up a mood for a story and distracting you so that you work better, but just be careful what you listen to, and keep in mind how you want your story to flow.


    Although a lot of people write chapter descriptions and plot things out, I really don't go for that. Usually, I'll get an idea and just go with it; maybe fleshing it out in my daydreams, etc. Slowly, I build what I want up, but after getting more experience, I've come up with a good way of getting things sorted (like a pesty plot!).

    Instead of defining everything in exact detail, I just brainstorm. I scribble something that I want to happen in the future, a side-note about someones character, and introspective analysis of why someone acts the way that they do. That way, I have my ideas there to refrence for later on, but I'm not set in stone about them, which I find very discouraging.

    And my final thing to discuss, the always engaging topic of REVIEWS.

    Despite the fact {Well, *I* consider them good, anyway} my stories are quite well written, and have been for several years, I don't get many reviews. It's rather discouraging to read a fanfic that has only engaging characters and a good plot, but not quite up to standard grammer, that has around 300 views to my piddling four or five.

    After extensive thought and research, I've come to a conclusion.

    Ghost Reviewers.

    I don't review every single story that I read; very few, in fact. Most of the stories that I love I simply read, and wait for an update! What a contradictory hypocrite, hmm? ^_^ Even though I greatly enjoy reading those fanfics, I rarely review them because, quite simply, I'm too damn lazy.

    So, too all those authors out there in the same straits as I- do not despair! It's highly likely that your readers are simply to lazy to review, enough though they admire your work... Actually, come to think of it, that isn't very encouraging =S

    Well, I hope that, in some way, I've helped those who read this, so, I shall leave.

    ^_^ Cya!

  19. #59
    Join Date
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    Not sure, let me check outside
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    Wow, this is all very good here. I've only been able to read the first, second, and last page so far, but it's already helped me in designing a possible story idea.

    Like Aethyrial_Flame, I daydream a lot about possible ideas I could do. Unfortunatly most are great as daydreams, but stink if I attempt to put them down on paper/pixel. With this current idea I watched Ella Enchanted, which is sorta based on the Cinderella storyline. That gave me my current idea for a fic, one based extremely losely on that story.

    I'll see how it goes, but maybe my two cents could be to just let an idea rest for a bit if your stuck, and maybe you'll be struck by an idea to make it work out.
    If that advice stinks I bow to the knowledge of better writers, but it's working for me.
    Favorite pokemon of all time:


    Sixteen Flavors of Pokemon is being written now. Pokemon so far: Kakuna, Murkrow,
    ~Bigbrother

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Here's another tip concerning attacks.

    One thing that's easy to get wrong is to merely describe the attacks like in Colosseum or XD. For example, Swords Dance. It's not going to be an illusion of swords clashing together then disappearing. Another example is Mean Look; it won't be just a big illusion of an eye.

    My second point: when attacks are to be used. Come on, be realistic. Pokemon will not politely take turns in beating the crap out of each other. So in the same dynamic, Pokemon will not start off using defensive moves against each other. As an example, a Gardevoir may start with Light Screen, and a Scyther will follow with a Swords Dance. No. When a Pokemon uses a defensive move, it's either to repel attacks or to neutralise them.

    Which brings me to my third point. If your character's Pokemon does use a defensive move like Light Screen, it will be at the last moment, deflecting the attack. In the episode "Solid As A Solrock", when Ash's Pikachu uses Thunderbolt, Liza's Lunatone casts Light Screen to deflect it. This next example features Swords Dance again. In "Gettin' The Bugs Out", Bugsy has his Scyther use Swords Dance to deflect Flamethrower.

    I'm no't saying you can't use Swords Dance or any other moves forementioned normally, but the above serves as a dual purpose for the moves.


    Do. Not. Blink.

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