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Thread: An Angry Combeenation! (500)

  1. #1
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    Default An Angry Combeenation! (500)

    An Angry Combeenation!

    After splitting from Gardenia, Ash & Co. continue their search for Honey with their new friend Cheryl. Chasing a Combee that they found, they find a massive hive filled with Combee. However, Team Rocket see this and want the Combee. The hive's leader however, is not too happy with Team Rocket or Ash & Co's presence in the hive...

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  2. #2

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    I'm sorry but I didn't like this episode at all. The animation was very bad, and those Mitsuhoneys looked very artifical and badly drawn. Nothing really happened and Beequeen didn't do anything. The battle againts TR was also bland, attract?

    The only good thing was when they entered the cave and Dark Beequeen appeared with red eyes.


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  3. #3
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    Maestro, every time you post, I feel like popping in another Zoloft.
    Anyways, haven't done a rapidfire review in a while, so I shall do so now:

    - Combee is a freak, you hear me? A FREAK.
    - I like how this new art director does faces.
    - It's a wall of Combfreaks! I shall refer to it as Freakwall!
    - Did I mention that Cheryl tickles my fancy?
    - Superb lighting effects. You can certainly tell this director worked on the movies.
    - DEMONIC COMBFREAKS! Their master is probably a Bidoof.
    - Nice touch with the Combfreaks' gender differences.
    - I take it Wormadam's gonna do nothing in this episode. AGAIN.
    - MEGA FREAKWALL LIVES! And CG that actually impresses me!
    - I swear I played this level in Donkey Kong Country 2.
    - You fools! You've just awakened King Zing!
    - Wow, Vespiquen...didn't do much.
    - And Croagunk is the only one who finds the honey disgusting.
    - Cheryl's gone. Me = Sad. Sadder than Brock.
    - RANDOM BUG/GRASS POKEMON MOB!

    Pretty good for a filler. A beehive isn't something that's been done before, either, in spite of countless Spear attacks over the years. Kinda wish Vespiquen did more, but the new art director gets a gold star in my book.
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  4. #4

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    Yeah, I liked how the animator shaded the episode, especially when it was all dark.

    The guy worked on Movie 8, and I definately thought it showed. It was a pretty impressive backdrop, like the Tree of Origin was.

  5. #5
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    I really liked this episode. Vespiqueen seemed very misterious and cool. She is the queen of A LOT of Combees......which I think are even more awesome when they get together to form a big Combee or a "bee-wall".

    Mothim was getting on my nerves for some reason...especially when it destroyed the whole combee-wall with only one attack.

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  6. #6

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    Another awesome episode!

    Gorgeous animation, nice battles, plenty of funny moments, nice BGM... It all rocked a lot.
    I also loved to see Buneary again. I was missing that thing <3

    About Vespiquen... Of course she did a lot! She used Attack Order all the time... Or do you people think those Combee were really using Psybeam? C'mon, if they were it would be nonsense that Vespiquen would do nothing while her home were breaking apart. =P

    Oh, and... Cheryl's gone. Gah, I liked her. :~

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro Kinético View Post
    I'm sorry but I didn't like this episode at all. The animation was very bad, and those Mitsuhoneys looked very artifical and badly drawn. Nothing really happened and Beequeen didn't do anything. The battle againts TR was also bland, attract?

    The only good thing was when they entered the cave and Dark Beequeen appeared with red eyes.
    Are you insane?
    If I recall correctly, you said you were an art student or something... Now, let me ask you: how do you want to become a decent professional if you can't even recognize good animation? My... You're such a pain in the azz. -_-

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    Typical Team Rocket, they try so hard at actually winning only to lose out at the end of an episode and this ep is no different.

    The only other thing that annoyed me was Jessie's big head when she mocked Ash & Co.

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    Haha, the writers DID seem like they got inspiration of this episode from Donkey Kong Country 2.

    Amusing.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashy Boy View Post
    The only other thing that annoyed me was Jessie's big head when she mocked Ash & Co.
    Baleen Whale Ver. 4 was awesome. I really liked how the gang looked like flat paper cut-outs when she yelled.

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  10. #10

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    Seviper swatting away the Combee was pretty sweet. There's a reason one of my forum names is named after him.

    Vespiquen technically did do quite a bit, when you remember she was controlling all the Combee to attack.

    And yes, Oak getting beat up by Pokemon seems to be back after a LONG absense!

  11. #11
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    Eh... wasn't impressed with this episode at all. I was hoping for so much more, but was left in the dust. While the CGI was great, the rest of the animation seemed so sketchy that it kinda hurt to watch it. The characters seemed to snap from one pose to another, doing relatively little actual *moving*. I really didn't like Team Rocket in this one, either. Too much unusual screaming and whatnot. It just seemed so random. Sudowoodo was as cute as ever, though, but a lot of Pokemon seemed to just appear, vanish, and reappear later. Mothim even used what I'm guessing to be Supersonic which wasn't even shown having an effect in the following frame. It's like the attack completely vanished. The Combee's Psybeam would've been awesome... if the attack hadn't just totally come from nowhere and Combee actually learned it. The same goes for Mothim's supposed Supersonic. Finally, the last thing that made this so unenjoyable was that the Combee were so selective in attacking. First they're a wall blocking intruders, but when that wall falls, they walk in, scott-free. They're not even being contested by the fact that they're invaders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Starly- View Post
    Baleen Whale Ver. 4 was awesome.
    What does that mean?

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    I really liked the CGI in this episode, but other than that I thought it was pretty boring to be honest.

    Even though it showcased Combee and Vespiqueen, I've just had enough of Sinnoh fillers already.. Just because they never really show Ash's Sinnoh Pokémon in their glory. I want to see them train!



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    OK! Episode 500! So, does Ash now have a Grotle, Staraptor, or Ambipom? Or does Dawn have Prinplup or Lopunny? Or does Brock have Toxicroak? Or does James have Mr. Mime or Cacturne? Or was it a capture?

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    Are you insane?
    If I recall correctly, you said you were an art student or something... Now, let me ask you: how do you want to become a decent professional if you can't even recognize good animation? My... You're such a pain in the azz.
    Before beeing an art student I'm a person, and a person knows that good and bad are totally subjetive concepts. So please, don't try to disqualify my opinion using those.

    The animation in my opinion was very bad (and animation is one of the few things that I apreciate in the show nowadays), look at the scenes with the Mitsuhoneys flying, the background looks so unreal and gleaming, doesn't look natural. Also, the faces of the Mitsuhoney are identical and their shading looks bad (all of this in my opinion). A few examples:

    http://pokemon-safari.com/sitio/imag...arl/032/54.jpg

    IMO thats not good animation at all, looks like a flat drawing.

    http://pokemon-safari.com/sitio/imag...arl/032/55.jpg

    Look at their faces.

    ETA: Forgot about the 500th episode, for beeing a 500 episode it wa spretty weak, nothing happened with the characters.


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  16. #16

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    Maestro and Ashy Boy make a good Crash-The-Thread combo. I'm surprised they haven't joined forces to make one big pessimistic team yet.

    I found Vespiquen to be quite eerie, really. Same with the Combees. And I even like Combee Well, at least that means the art director was setting the atmosphere properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro Kinético View Post
    Before beeing an art student I'm a person, and a person knows that good and bad are totally subjetive concepts. So please, don't try to disqualify my opinion using those.
    Not in terms of animation it isn't. If the animation is bad, then it's bad, and if animation is good, then it's good.

    Now, I haven't seen the episode myself, but considering you thought a Kinoshita episode had good animation, I don't think you really understand what you're talking about when you say 'good/bad animation', let alone good or bad artwork...

    The animation in my opinion was very bad (and animation is one of the few things that I apreciate in the show nowadays), look at the scenes with the Mitsuhoneys flying, the background looks so unreal and gleaming, doesn't look natural. Also, the faces of the Mitsuhoney are identical and their shading looks bad (all of this in my opinion). A few examples:

    http://pokemon-safari.com/sitio/imag...arl/032/54.jpg

    IMO thats not good animation at all, looks like a flat drawing.

    http://pokemon-safari.com/sitio/imag...arl/032/55.jpg

    Look at their faces.
    'Also, the faces of the Mitsuhoney are identical'
    So what were you expecting? You really think they'd go through the trouble of giving every single individual face a different expression? Or were you just begging to see a few moustaches, shades and sideburns thrown in for good measure?

    It's CG art, which has never been a strength of this show. You're just labling the entire episode as poorly animated because of what is essentially just a single character model. That's like saying the Manaphy movie had crappy 2D animation because the models used for the 3D characters were god awful, but that just isn't the case.

    Also, background art =/= animation. It's background art. Unless it's a certain scene, there's no movement involved there.

  18. #18

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    Not in terms of animation it isn't. If the animation is bad, then it's bad, and if animation is good, then it's good.
    I didn't know that you were God. Now seriously, good and bad are the most subjetive concepts of all (as stated by philosophy and ethics).

    Now, I haven't seen the episode myself, but considering you thought a Kinoshita episode had good animation, I don't think you really understand what you're talking about when you say 'good/bad animation', let alone good or bad artwork...
    Again the same thing, just because you think Kinoshita makes bad animation the whole world does not have to think like you.


    'Also, the faces of the Mitsuhoney are identical'
    So what were you expecting? You really think they'd go through the trouble of giving every single individual face a different expression? Or were you just begging to see a few moustaches, shades and sideburns thrown in for good measure?
    No, I was specting separate Mitsuhoney or a formation of separate Mitsuhoney, not those strange groups that look anticlimatic because the Mitsuhoney inside the group can't fly and they are still in the air without falling.

    It's CG art, which has never been a strength of this show. You're just labling the entire episode as poorly animated because of what is essentially just a single character model. That's like saying the Manaphy movie had crappy 2D animation because the models used for the 3D characters were god awful, but that just isn't the case.
    That's why I don't like when they use it, and they don't have the need to do so. The animation was good with traditionally animated characters and attacks.

    Also, background art =/= animation. It's background art. Unless it's a certain scene, there's no movement involved there.
    I'm not talking about the movement, I'm talking about how unreal and gleamy it looks. I loved those forest scenes of the early days, so well drawn and natural even if they didn't have the resources they have nowadays.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Missingno. Master View Post
    OK! Episode 500! So, does Ash now have a Grotle, Staraptor, or Ambipom? Or does Dawn have Prinplup or Lopunny? Or does Brock have Toxicroak? Or does James have Mr. Mime or Cacturne? Or was it a capture?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro Kinético View Post
    Again the same thing, just because you think Kinoshita makes bad animation the whole world does not have to think like you.
    You telling me THIS is good animation?

    No, I was specting separate Mitsuhoney or a formation of separate Mitsuhoney, not those strange groups that look anticlimatic because the Mitsuhoney inside the group can't fly and they are still in the air without falling.
    Now you're grabbing at straws. How does a wall of Combee look "anticlimatic" because of a simple flaw in physics? Besides, I'm sure the Combee are made to be strong enough to carry others of the same species, so it isn't that unrealistic, anyways.
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  20. #20

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    ETA: Forgot about the 500th episode, for beeing a 500 episode it wa spretty weak, nothing happened with the characters.
    Hey! A pun!

    Again the same thing, just because you think Kinoshita makes bad animation the whole world does not have to think like you.
    Coming from the guy whose whining that the animation in this episode WAS bad...

    nd animation is one of the few things that I apreciate in the show nowadays
    You whine about the color of the mountains and the bright colors all the time, and in an episode where they mix it up and give us some comparatively "dark" scenes you still whine.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro Kinético View Post
    I didn't know that you were God.
    You need to get out more then.

    Now seriously, good and bad are the most subjetive concepts of all (as stated by philosophy and ethics).
    Don't give me that rubbish. This may shcok and amaze you, but it's hardly a 'subjective concept' when the artwork is almost always off-model and the animation is horrendously choppy and stiff. Perhaps if Kinoshita was up to Iwane quality, there'd be room for opinions, but as it stands, he isn't. Maybe that kind of thing can be considered good in your happy world (the wonderous place that apparantly can't be debated against, ever!), but in the real world, that is bad.

    Again the same thing, just because you think Kinoshita makes bad animation the whole world does not have to think like you.
    I don't think he's bad. I know he's bad. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

    No, I was specting separate Mitsuhoney or a formation of separate Mitsuhoney, not those strange groups that look anticlimatic because the Mitsuhoney inside the group can't fly and they are still in the air without falling.
    Uh, I thought you said your major complaint were the expressions? Now you're going on about them being seperate and in different formations? Make up your mind.
    Also
    a.) We saw several 'seperate' Combee throughout the episode
    b.) Last time I checked, the process of all the Combee joining together like that could be called a ....(dare I say it)....formation! :O

    That's why I don't like when they use it, and they don't have the need to do so. The animation was good with traditionally animated characters and attacks.
    Agreed. But once again, that doesn't mean the rest of the episode was bad, which is what you seem to be insinuating.

    I'm not talking about the movement
    Animation is movement. The backgrounds don't dance around and fire Hyper Beams.

    I'm talking about how unreal and gleamy it looks. I loved those forest scenes of the early days, so well drawn and natural even if they didn't have the resources they have nowadays.
    For someone who liked the Kanto season so much, you certainly don't have any idea of how awful the background art was. I mean, just look at this for example: The trees are essentially just a bunch of round blobs, the mountains look flatter than a pancake under a steamroller and there really isn't any real detail there at all. It's not different from the city scenery. Or the interiors of the buildings (hey look! It's those brightly colored tiles you love so much!). Or the amazingly realistic looking rocks(!).

    Then you look at this; The trees actually look like they have leaves. The different types of trees have various color palletes. The rock formations actually have some level of detail.
    FYI, those shots from older cartoons are taken from two of my most favourite episodes, both script and animation-wise. So before you go and say the bgs from the old days were superior, I suggest you take off those rose-tinted glasses and take a second look. Because they're nowhere near as good as you make them out to be.

    But in any case; Is it really necessary to bring up your qualms with them in every single one of these threads? I doubt anyone out there is dying to hear you bring up how much you dislike the backgrounds every 7 days.
    Last edited by Gravy; 5th May 2007 at 8:50 PM.

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    Having seen the pics, what I have to say is...
    -Need. Vespiquen. Now. Curse the dark lords that made Combee predominantly male!
    -Why did Cheryl need to go through all that trouble just to get some honey? Doesn't the Pokemon World have grocery stores?
    -Croagunk dislikes honey. That fits, really.
    -Hive-mind Pokemon always make for...different...experiences. See:Unown.
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  23. #23

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    Also you can hardly judge the animation by STILL PICTURES. I've learnt that to fully judge animation you have to watch the episode.

    So go watch before you completely judge it and after watching one of the Konshitia or whatever episodes (the fossil one) I can say honestly, he's crap, not saying that I can do any better BUT the way Rorak and Rampardos (forgot english name already D:!) was drawn was terrible.

    So go watch, then come back, then complain.

    Though honestly, Combee looks good drawn like that and I'm an avid Combee fan sooooo

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashy Boy View Post
    What does that mean?
    You mean you don't know what Baleen Whale Jessie is?

    Anyways, this episode wins because of one sole thing:

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    Gravy, there's no point arguing with him, just forget it. I know it may bother you more than other people because of your artistic skill, but we know he says the same thing every week about every single episode so there's no point.

    You're talking to deaf ears, don't bother with him.

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