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Thread: Metalheads? anybody?

  1. #9026
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    overt examples are often dismissed as "well that's just one extreme example!"- i think it should be pointed out how racism permeates even casual metal culture.

    i enjoy a fair share of bands with racist views (grand belial's key are amazing) and it's true that passion makes music better regardless of what they're passionate about but i hate the idea of "free speech" allowing people to be ignorant arseholes to other people in the scene. i will not stop you from believing it but if you walk around in a shirt with a swastika backprint and call out minorities for enjoying the music you better not use the "free speech" bull to get out of being a waste of oxygen. this kind of passive, "as long as i don't see it" dismissing of the racism that's prevalent in the scene is what allows it to thrive.

    at risk of coming across as an "internet tough guy", if you see a guy in a swastika shirt, tell him to **** off. get in his face about it. apathy is the breeding ground for toxic ideals and i hate that.

  2. #9027
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    I think racism permeates everything. I don't know where you're from but I'm from the county of Lancashire in England. I reckon if you went in 9 out of 10 pubs, you'd find a racist without much trouble. We even once walked out of a pub quiz once because the compere was making jokes about n*****s and comparing them to dogs.

    At the risk of derailing this into a philosophy thread, what makes your world view any more right than hypothetical-swastika-guy's ideals? I don't believe there is an objective right and wrong beyond human beings. It's all subjective and based on society.

    Lets say it was the other way round, and the racist world view was the norm, you wouldn't like people getting all uppity and in your face if you were promoting peace and equality would you? As longs as he isn't causing any physical harm and is simply displaying a political idea/ideology via a symbol, they fair play to him. I don't believe it's right to police people's thoughts and political views.

    It's like that old joke that the far left are so left wing, they've gone round the back and come out on the other side on the right in the way they want to police the thoughts and restrict the right wing.

  3. #9028
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    just to make this post a bit more relevant to the thread, one of my favourite osdm acts:



    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerheart View Post
    I think racism permeates everything. I don't know where you're from but I'm from the county of Lancashire in England. I reckon if you went in 9 out of 10 pubs, you'd find a racist without much trouble. We even once walked out of a pub quiz once because the compere was making jokes about n*****s and comparing them to dogs.
    agreed.
    At the risk of derailing this into a philosophy thread, what makes your world view any more right than hypothetical-swastika-guy's ideals? I don't believe there is an objective right and wrong beyond human beings. It's all subjective and based on society.
    my world view is not based on exclusion, hatred, segregation, and discrimination which is based largely on (in the metal community) a group of Tolkien nerds getting given a guitar, a copy of Mein Kampf and some barbells so they think they're tough skin heads now. i don't see how it's subjective to say that peace in a group is better than people excluding others.
    Lets say it was the other way round, and the racist world view was the norm, you wouldn't like people getting all uppity and in your face if you were promoting peace and equality would you? As longs as he isn't causing any physical harm and is simply displaying a political idea/ideology via a symbol, they fair play to him. I don't believe it's right to police people's thoughts and political views.

    It's like that old joke that the far left are so left wing, they've gone round the back and come out on the other side on the right in the way they want to police the thoughts and restrict the right wing.
    "restrict/police the thoughts." no. the only way i could be restricting/policing/censoring/whatever is if i held a position of power and made it illegal to wear racist symbols. what i'm doing is not policing anyone, if they have a right to share their opinion that they think entire groups of people are scum then by that same token i have the right to say they are scum. what's the difference?

  4. #9029
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    I'm not really going to continue the discussion of racism in metal, since I probably wouldn't be able to contribute much other than "that's ****ed up but i have known forever"

    I'm not entirely sure how relevant it is to the metal discussion, but I finally did get around to listening to Riverside's Shrine of New Generation Slaves.


    It's, honestly, a very good album. It's nothing terribly original or anything like that, but I just generally enjoy it.
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  5. #9030
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkieloser View Post

    my world view is not based on exclusion, hatred, segregation, and discrimination which is based largely on (in the metal community) a group of Tolkien nerds getting given a guitar, a copy of Mein Kampf and some barbells so they think they're tough skin heads now. i don't see how it's subjective to say that peace in a group is better than people excluding others.
    Of course it's subjective. All opinion is subjective. It's difficult to discuss, as for most it involves removing yourself from what you consider rational thought, and what you percieve to be right. What makes you any more right than them? What gives legitimacy to your train of thought? At best you could argue that more civilised people would agree with you than disagree, but that doesn't make it universally true or right. I'm all for equality, but I'm also aware that's a conclusion I've come to based on my experiences, and what I perceive to be right and wrong. Doesn't mean that others are wrong for thinking otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by junkieloser View Post
    "restrict/police the thoughts." no. the only way i could be restricting/policing/censoring/whatever is if i held a position of power and made it illegal to wear racist symbols. what i'm doing is not policing anyone, if they have a right to share their opinion that they think entire groups of people are scum then by that same token i have the right to say they are scum. what's the difference?
    It was more the way you said you'd "tell him to **** off. get in his face about it." That's harassment. You can think and say they are scum, and most would agree. But I don't think confrontation is the answer. Education should be, and the slow eradication of poisonous ideas, as we build a better and more enlightened future.

    And to an extent I can see it happening. There are a number of none racist people who joke about racist grandparents as if they are outdated and almost cliché. Attitudes are changing. Yeah there are always going to be a small minority who are bitter because foreigners took their jobs, or don't adhere to their ye olde values. But by and large I feel that that minority is getting smaller and smaller. Using the Nazi example, part of the reason it was able to happen was because of the rife and widespread antisemitism at the time. Going even further back from 1290 - 1657 Jews were banned from England. There's no way in the age of technology and communication, and at a time when information and education is so freely available to so many, that such a thing would happen. Things have definitely moved on and progress, and hopefully through education like I say, we can tackle the problem properly, rather than just shouting at people who disagree.

  6. #9031
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Admiral View Post
    I'm not really going to continue the discussion of racism in metal, since I probably wouldn't be able to contribute much other than "that's ****ed up but i have known forever"

    I'm not entirely sure how relevant it is to the metal discussion, but I finally did get around to listening to Riverside's Shrine of New Generation Slaves.


    It's, honestly, a very good album. It's nothing terribly original or anything like that, but I just generally enjoy it.
    I really like Riverside. They're wearing their influences on their sleeves, but they compensate by writing really good music. In a genre of painfully boring bands like Dream Theater's and Symphony X's that just pander on with mediocre releases, Riverside has a pretty strong discography. Shrine would probably be among their weaker albums for me, but I still really enjoyed it.
    So I make my own music and I just released a new album. Check it out: http://parisinthespring.bandcamp.com...will-fade-away

  7. #9032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I really like Riverside. They're wearing their influences on their sleeves, but they compensate by writing really good music. In a genre of painfully boring bands like Dream Theater's and Symphony X's that just pander on with mediocre releases, Riverside has a pretty strong discography. Shrine would probably be among their weaker albums for me, but I still really enjoyed it.
    Sadly I've only heard Shrine, but I have their other discs on my hard drive. I fully intend to listen to them before my next semester begins. And yeah, I would say that they are making their influences very, very clear. "Deprived" (which was the first song I heard off the album, thanks to a prog/metal compilation my dad had lying around) sounded very much like a modern Marillion tune (compare "Power" from Sounds That Can't Be Made). This one... I think it may just be the use of the keyboards, but bits of it sound like they were clearly inspired by Deep Purple.

    I'll have to check out their other albums soon, since I really loved this one. And also, you do raise a good point about prog. I feel like prog should be a genre with at least some variance in sound, but that there's a lot of homogeneity. Which is why I'm so happy with albums like Asymmetry and Shrine of New Generation Slaves. They don't just sound like the same two or three bands and albums. (Not that I don't still enjoy those from time to time, though Dream Theater's newest sits as very unmemorable for me.)
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  8. #9033
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    It's kinda funny how Progressive Rock/Metal was built on the idea of variety and diversity, yet it's probably the genre that has changed the least over the last 15-20 years. Even with the bands I like within the style, there's really no originality or amazing creativity these days. There's some good albums coming out from some of the bands, but the musical style as a whole has been very same-y for the last decade at least.
    So I make my own music and I just released a new album. Check it out: http://parisinthespring.bandcamp.com...will-fade-away

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