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Thread: Pokémon - The Sinnoh League (10,11,12)

  1. #26
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    I don't think I have ever seen a series as polarizing as Sinnoh when it comes to Pokémon. During my time on internet forums and viewing YouTube videos, it seems like there are either the people who love Sinnoh and think it was the absolute highlight of Pokémon and that nothing can or ever will top it and then there are the people who absolutely hate it and say it was the worst season of Pokémon to date. Where do I stand? I really liked it despite its flaws. Okay, let's talk about the good stuff. The battles in this series were probably some of the best battles Pokémon has ever had. They had strategy, they were often intense and they were really fun to watch. I also loved the contest appeals contest battles which I also felt were very well done. The animation was well done for the most part (although, I have to say that it's not necessarily my favorite animation because I do love where Best Wishes is going with its animation). The music is well done adding nice new tracks and keeping some old fan favorites. Dawn herself is a great character I feel and I know people hate her but I will try and defend her. People try and say that Dawn had absolutely no change as a character from start to finish and while I could see their point, I don't think it should be a strike against her. Dawn is still a ten year old girl and expecting her to have this major development in which she becomes a woman and a completely different person is sort of silly especially at Dawn's age. Dawn did have a great contest arcs and she had many human emotions throughout the show that made you able to relate to her. Dawn was a success in my opinion. I thought she had a fun personality and her girly side was also very appealing to watch. Paul was also a great rival and I know he too is hated. The reason I like Paul is because I felt he was a great antagonistic force in this series. He was the exact opposite of Ash in many ways and some of his methods were rather dark for Pokémon at times. I also thought the Chimchar story arc was done well. Ash and Paul gave us engaging battles and the conclusion to their rivalry was well done. I know people say Paul changed out of no where but I still feel Paul learning that Ash beat Brandon while Paul couldn't beat Brandon with his methods and then Paul losing to Ash in the Sinnoh League helped Paul to reconsider his methods. Hunter J and Team Galactic while horribly underused and underdeveloped were still very entertaining and most of their appearances were enjoyable. Ash was at his best as a trainer here and all of his Poemon had unique personalities and were well developed. Brock got some nice focus as well.

    What were the low points? The handling of some of the rivals. While I like Paul and Zoey, I still feel like a lot of other rivals got screwed over. Let's start with Conway. Conway is an entertaining character but I think he would have worked better as Dawn's rival. I think it would have been such a great move to put him as a coordinator especially with his crush on Dawn and the fact that prior to the League, he was more connected to Dawn than he was with Ash. Conway was fodder at the League and only appeared in the Summer School Arc and the Tag Team Arc prior to the League. Would have liked to see him more and have him have more interactions with Ash. Barry was introduced around 100 episodes into the show and I just didn't think he was a great rival. Most of the time he came across as a Paul fanboy and at some points, he was a jerk. He also got screwed over in the League and I guess I don't think he is as humorous as other people do. Ursula was great as a mean girl rival and I wish she got more wins but otherwise she was a good rival for Dawn. Nando was interesting but disappeared for a long time. Tobias worked well as a mysterious League rival. Kenny worked well as Dawn's childhood rival but he was screwed over in the Grand Festival. I guess I should mention Jessie. She was just so nasty to poor Dawn most of the time. TRio were at their absolute worst here and like I mentioned before, the other villains were underused.

  2. #27
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    truth be told i didnt care much for this season but i will admit it had some decent battles although they shouldve done that last league battle a little better so that it wasnt so controversial.
    by the way here is an interesting little fact i found on bulbapedia when i was snooping around there, in the episode fighting fear with fear dawn supposedly said: how ash should be more like gary when it comes to his pokemon.
    I couldnt agree more with her.
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  3. #28
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    This saga is my favorite. IMO it's the best saga after Orange islands. It has well-written battles, well-written contests and character devolopment. Also the animation was nicely done and the music was great too. Dawn was a nice addition to DP saga, she and Piplup had a bond like Ash and Pikachu. Paul was a refreshing new rival for Ash, and they had an awsome rivalry throughout the saga. The only annoying rival was kenny, who's eager to get Dawn's attention.

  4. #29
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    *sigh* Sadly, I'm a hater who's gonna hate here, because this saga is really the only one I can't stand to watch most of the time. I practically avoid it like the plague to avoid the bad memories I have watching it.

    That being said, I do feel Sinnoh tops all other sagas in three ways: 1) in terms of battle quality, 2) the gym battles, and 3) the strategies employed in Dawn's contests and Ash's gym battles.

    Eh, besides that...man, I hate this saga with a passion to tell you the truth. It's not bad: in fact, it can be argued it IS the best saga in a lot of ways, but I just don't like the way it was written or dubbed. It doesn't sit well with me at times. Even BW feels more "Pokemon-like" than this saga does to me.

    Let's start with one of my biggest issues: the voice acting.

    Can't lie, Ash and Brock's dub voices drove me beyond nuts in this saga...I can't even listen to them for more than 5 minutes without cringing at something or another they are saying. It's that awful for me.

    Brock's voice in particular is just...not right at all...it just sounds way off to me no matter how I look at it here most of the time.

    Despite that, that is the LEAST of my problems with Brock here. He was shafted continuously in favor of Ash and Dawn, his Pokemon team only changed in terms of evolution and nothing more for 3 years (2007-2010), and all he did was cook, say advice, and flirt with women 95% of the eps he was in. It was...utterly heartbreaking to see the once enjoyable, funny, and awesome character Brock was practically fading away before my eyes.

    However, I did like Ash's VA in the League Episodes, though, and Brock's VA did a good job in his last two episodes but besides that...out of all the recast English voices, these two by far frustrated me the most. Maybe it's because they sounded so different, but it was very tough to get used to.

    Piplup's voice was annoying as well, if listened to in large bursts.

    Team Rocket's alliterations did not help ease that pain, but for what it's worth, I did like their Pokemon releasing episodes. Their actors did a good job with those, too.

    I'll give it a 7/10 overall to be fair in re-evaluating it, but it's my least favorite part of the anime and I do not have any desire to go back to this saga.

    The major thing I feel detracts from my view of Sinnoh are that for me it feels like it IS the low point for Brock and Team Rocket out of all sagas they were in, IMO.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 29th July 2013 at 2:47 AM.

  5. #30
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    Outside of how boring Brock and Team Rocket were, and the lack of humor, this saga was well done for the most part.

    I only wish they followed through with the promise of a Champion league. It made the saga end on a whimper.

  6. #31

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    Probably my favorite series overall, though I include the Battle frontier as one of my favorites also. This series had interesting storylines, great battles, and awesome characters that actually got some great development in this arc. Dawn and Paul are my favorite characters and they probably had the best development out of all the characters in this arc imo. This series felt more like it was Dawn's story with Ash being a side character to Dawn to me, and it was really refreshing to have something like that imo.
    If I had to rate it, I'd give DP a perfect 10/10

  7. #32
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    You know fellas, I like the Sinnoh Saga,and it league better than any other sagas. Zoey happened to be one of my favorite characters of all time now. Dawn turned out to be an amazing character. Sweeter than most of the other female companions. The best part of the Sinnoh League is that Ash crushed his cold-hearted rival, Paul.
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  8. #33
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    Haven't re-watched the Sinnoh saga in years, I started watching the sinnoh League episodes on Hulu plus and I was once again reminded why I hated the saga to this day:

    Ash - He really annoyed me this generation! Other than the voice changes, his constant need to be one step ahead of Paul to prove that he's the better battler irked me. If he even sees him, Ash runs to him like some over-hyped child and runs his mouth like Paul wants to conversate with him. If Paul says or does something he doesn't like, Ash cops an an attitude like a little boy. And when their battle was finally over at the league, he runs to find him like he has a schoolboy crush on him or something. It was sickening!

    Paul - He's really the only person I didn't have a problem with at all. I didn't mind his no-nonsense attitude and his desire to be on his own and be the best he can be. It was clear in some episodes that he didn't wanna be bothered but Ash being Ash always had to be in his face about everything grated my nerves. While I'm not condoning the way he treated Pokemon early on, hey at least he didn't beat them whenever they did a move wrong or didn't perform well like Joe Jackson did his kids LOL!

    Dawn and Piplup - Although I actually didn't mind seeing them again in B/W, I was reminded how annoying both of them were in D/P. Her raspy voice aside, her annoying cheering scenes with Piplup were nauseating, and her Pokemon Contests really bored me. I preferred May's contests by a mile. And during the league, I mean did she really have to use her Pokedex for every Pokemon that came out?! Dawn definitely had that girly girl deal about herself but compared to Serena now, even Dawn is starting to look good.

    Brock - I agree with the others. Brock just was useless this time around and that Croagunk bit was really old and annoying.

    Team Rocket - They were just the icing on the cake. They were so bad this time around, they were one of the reasons I actually stopped watching Pokemon during that time. The voice changes i still didn't get used to and the jibberish that were always coming out their mouths irked my nerves! Most of the time it was just random words. Their dialogue along with the rest of the show was horrible! The first half of B/W they meant business and coupled with the fact that we didn't have to see them every episode is what made me invest in them again but then they reverted back to their Sinnoh selves and i reverted back to hating them again!

    Yeah, the battles were good and Ash had a decent Pokemon roster then, but that's it! Everything else about the series just turned me off for a good while. B/W (the saga alot of people seem to hate) is what actually brought me back to the anime when Sinnoh (the saga that alot of people actually loved) turned me off it!

  9. #34
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    Sinnoh had the best recurring characters and a good pace except toward to end when we had to wait a year between Snowpoint & Sunyshore. 9/10

  10. #35
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    Sinnoh is still my favorite saga to date. I loved the battles, the pokemon, the rivals, etc. But my favorite thing about this saga was Dawn she is one of my favorite female characters ever i loved everything about her.

  11. #36
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    Tied with Hoenn for best series. Might have passed Hoenn if the dub voice acting was better, but it's still very enjoyable. The battles were fantastic, the characters were good, but personally I think they should have put more effort into making Ash more likable, and replaced Brock at the beginning.

  12. #37
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    Shinou took what made Houen so great, and tripled it with even better plot progression and development for Satoshi. In particular, I thought that Hikari's Contest losing spree arc was done well because it showed us how much hard work Contests were.

  13. #38
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    Omg, DP's Contests were so great to watch: the combos and more rivals made it so much more interesting than the past. Gym Battles were my favorite thus far, great strategies, Contest moves added in occasionally.

  14. #39
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    While I'd say this saga is kind of on the overrated side. Just a little.

    Positives:
    -battles: best out of any saga so far hands down.
    -contest: they were amazing and way better than hoenns. I still don't know why they got rid of them to this day, as seeing sinnohs contest there were a lot they can do to make them unique & fun unlike gym battles that have been going on till alola.
    -TRio: they were alright. Only thing I'd say is underrated in DP. I mean, at least they have their old personality still in tact unlike boring, typical, personalitless BW things that took their names. & they made things interesting. Think about it, if TRio didn't show up then most episodes would be pretty boring as ash, his traveling co., & CotD will just do something that they figured out & no conflict at all /endepisode
    -dawn: great female companion with an interesting backstory, & has a unique personality. Like how she's brave, kind, can speak her mind, smart, & creative she was, but also was a bit of a ditz (flaws omg) that cost her some Pokemon getting captured & also got her in trouble as well.
    -Plot: best out of any saga so far. Like they had everything blend to the plot so nicely with TG, infernape, and the lake legends.
    -Pkmn personality: they all had unique personality. Though those who evolved looks as though they got the bland personality syndrome.

    Nuteral:
    -team galactic: great threatening team villains who you didn't see coming if you didn't play the games. Unfortunately, there were no interesting people in there. Even the boss is typical deceptive greedy guy. 💤
    -comedy: nothing made me laugh in DP, but it's fine as DP was more of a serious series.
    - hunter j.: seemed threatening & interesting concept. Liked that we had another villain who isn't part of TR, TG, & was really competent. Sadly she herself was a boring character & her lackies weren't interesting at all.
    -Paul: liked his rivalry with ash & his story with infernape. But the reason he's a jerk makes very little sense, & he has no personality beyond 'he is a jerk.' 💤
    -Ursula: she did her job to make Dawn's side more interesting, but she herself had no reason to hate dawn, & has nothing else to discribe her besides 'a bratty sore-loser.'

    Negatives:
    -Ash: showed very little personality & emotion.
    - Brock: become pretty bland this season
    -Fillers: none where really good and some were just awful.
    -piplup: stupid brat with a stupid reason to not want to evolve
    -reason amnipom ....everything: so it came along with ash so it can eventually be perma dumped off by the writers & never be heard from again cuz of Pokemon ping pong... 😑
    -new TRio motto: 'listen, is that a voice I hear?' So now Jessie has a hearing problem. That is just the first line, & the whole thing is as bad as that line 🤢

    Overall: 7/10 (really good)
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  15. #40
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    Sinnoh's episodes had the best animation out of the whole show from my perspective as seen during the Grand Festival and Sinnoh league hee hee. I really liked Dawn cuz she was sassy sometimes and I liked the rivals in this saga, especially Barry and Paul. Also I felt that Ash reached his peak during the DP saga.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    Also I felt that Ash reached his peak during the DP saga.
    I'd argue that Ash's peak as a trainer was in XY&Z, but he was excellent in DP, too. He definitely grew in Sinnoh as opposed to Unova at least, where he regressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    I'd argue that Ash's peak as a trainer was in XY&Z, but he was excellent in DP, too. He definitely grew in Sinnoh as opposed to Unova at least, where he regressed.
    I thought Ash's Dp team was simply better overall compared to his other regional teams. I especially liked how he focused on teaching his Dp Pokemon new moves like how he taught Turtwig Energy Ball and Staravia Brave Bird. :]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    I especially liked how he focused on teaching his Dp Pokemon new moves like how he taught Turtwig Energy Ball and Staravia Brave Bird. :]
    Tbh, if he hadn't had help from Kenny, Turtwig never would've learned that move. Ash pretty much neglected Gliscor and Buizel, though, which was unfair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Tbh, if he hadn't had help from Kenny, Turtwig never would've learned that move. Ash pretty much neglected Gliscor and Buizel, though, which was unfair.
    I didn't feel that either of them were 'neglected' however. Granted Ash did leave his Gliscor behind, tho it was so he could get stronger and he did focus on Buizel like when he helped him train to defeat that one guy's Mr Mime.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    I didn't feel that either of them were 'neglected' however.
    I meant in terms of actual on-screen development, which Gliscor had almost none of in this saga, and Buizel was hardly any better in that regard.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    I meant in terms of actual on-screen development, which Gliscor had almost none of in this saga, and Buizel was hardly any better in that regard.
    Well Gliscor got his capture episode, his evolution episode and then his departure episode for development. While not much, he wasn't that bad when it came to how active he was on the team, at least not as bad as Torterra ended up. ^^;

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    Well Gliscor got his capture episode, his evolution episode and then his departure episode for development. While not much, he wasn't that bad when it came to how active he was on the team, at least not as bad as Torterra ended up. ^^;
    That still leaves Buizel, though. And even though Torterra sucked when he evolved fully, he was still a good battler back when he was a Turtwig. :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    That still leaves Buizel, though. And even though Torterra sucked when he evolved fully, he was still a good battler back when he was a Turtwig. :x
    Buizel had decent screentime at least when it came to gyms since he was the star when Ash challenged Maylene and Crasher Wake. As for Turtwig, since Ash got Chimchar eventually, I kind of wish Brock had gotten Turtwig instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    I kind of wish Brock had gotten Turtwig instead.
    Ugh, no thanks lol. Brock wouldn't have put it to good use since Brock was a non-factor in Sinnoh. Turtwig being on Ash's team was the right decision.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wednesdayz View Post
    Ugh, no thanks lol. Brock wouldn't have put it to good use since Brock was a non-factor in Sinnoh. Turtwig being on Ash's team was the right decision.
    I just think that the Sinnoh starters might've been handled better if they had been distributed differently. Chimchar kind of unbalanced Ash's Dp team from my perspective cuz he went on to get way too much screentime by the end. :[

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