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Thread: Should US States allow illegal immigrants to gain Driver Liscenses?

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    Default Should US States allow illegal immigrants to gain Driver Liscenses?

    Recently I've gotten the urge to post a debate, and the controversial topic of allowing illegal immigrants to gain driver licenses is one of America's most debatable topics in recent years. Additionally, it is one of the few I care about.

    To begin I'll give a brief sample of my stance on the topic;

    I do not support illegal immigration and I believe each state needs to do their part in stopping it. However, with such an overwhelming population of illegal immigrants residing in our country, we all know their not all gonna be found and apprehended any time soon.

    Meanwhile, the state government has a duty to protect it's public against illegal immigrant misdeeds. Ironically, one effective way in doing this is through giving illegal immigrants access to driver licenses. Although it may upset and alienate many Americans, this policy offers many safety benefits to the American public. For one, they'll know how to actually drive, keeping us from unneeded car accidents. And two, they'll finally be in the system, making it easier for our law enforcement to seek and follow suspects who happen to be illegal immigrants, lowering the rate of repeated crimes.

    The way I see it, the benefits from granting illegal immigrants the opportunity to gain Driver licenses outweigh any sort nationalistic concern, citizens may have.

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    Well for one these people like to live in secrecy, a majority of them are not going to take this up becuase they fear that doing so will lead to their capture.

    Second these guys are already criminals, they are already breaking the law, why would they want to pay for a Drivers License when they are already driving for free?

    Third and most of all this only adds to the long list of benifits that entises these criminals to come over here. Doing this is the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.

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    I'll allow illegals to have driver's licenses only if we have ICE agents located at each DMV to apprehend each one and process them for removal from the United States.

    What makes you think that these illegal aliens will provide their real name, their real date of birth and their real address? What makes you think they won't use the name on the fake green card or fake social security card?

    If the illegals want to enjoy the benefits that legal residents do, I suggest they head back to their country and come here legally.

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    No becasue then they would want us to change all the signs on the road so they could read them, too.

    Originally Posted by: Cutiebunny
    I'll allow illegals to have driver's licenses only if we have ICE agents located at each DMV to apprehend each one and process them for removal from the United States.
    ^ I agree with you.

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    There is much extreme ignorance in this thread. However, non-citizens should not be able to enjoy the benefits of being a citizen. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and not everyone should drive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Second these guys are already criminals, they are already breaking the law, why would they want to pay for a Drivers License when they are already driving for free?
    For one, they need employment, and not many employers hire workers without a driver license.

    Third and most of all this only adds to the long list of benifits that entises these criminals to come over here. Doing this is the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.
    It's a small price to pay, for keeping the public much more safe and apprehending illegal aliens faster.

    There is much extreme ignorance in this thread. However, non-citizens should not be able to enjoy the benefits of being a citizen. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and not everyone should drive.
    The problem is; that still won't stop illegal immigrants from driving. The only difference with allowing them to get driver licenses--the government is keeping its roads safer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Second these guys are already criminals, they are already breaking the law, why would they want to pay for a Drivers License when they are already driving for free?
    For one, they need employment, and not many employers hire workers without a driver license.

    Third and most of all this only adds to the long list of benifits that entises these criminals to come over here. Doing this is the absolute opposite of what we should be doing.
    It's a small price to pay, for keeping the public much more safe and apprehending illegal aliens faster.

    There is much extreme ignorance in this thread. However, non-citizens should not be able to enjoy the benefits of being a citizen. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and not everyone should drive.
    The problem is; that still won't stop illegal immigrants from driving. The only difference with allowing them to get driver licenses--the government is keeping its roads safer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    For one, they need employment, and not many employers hire workers without a driver license.
    Seeing how you are from New York you probably do not know what Day Workers are. Basically these Illegals hang out around Bus stops, a truck pulls up, and they get in, go to work for the day on various projects, and get paid at the end of the day. These people dont go and do regular jobs, they seek out jobs that do not require papers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    It's a small price to pay, for keeping the public much more safe and apprehending illegal aliens faster.
    Well again as I said, they wont go and get these Driver Lisence in fear of being arrested. As for keeping the public safer. The best way to keep the public safe is get these people out of the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    The problem is; that still won't stop illegal immigrants from driving. The only difference with allowing them to get driver licenses--the government is keeping its roads safer.
    So you think people who are classified as criminals from the Government are going to just waltz into their local Government building and identify themselves as criminals? They don't want to go back to Mexico, and they know that putting themselves on the Government radar is going to highten their chance of going back. Not to mention these people are already criminals already. They do not care about the law, you are basically giving them a choice. Go spend time, money, and get your name in the system. Or keep driving for free since you have already been breaking the laws. The illegals will choose continue to break the law every time.

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    I'm aware not all illegal immigrants will follow through with this policy, however not all illegal aliens are Mexican bus boys. Many of them come here illegally to try to mold in with society for a better life than in their native country.

    Besides that, many illegal immigrants commit crimes only out of desperation. (since committing a crime will only give illegals unneeded attention from the law enforcement) By giving them a choice, the government would be significantly lowering the publics crime rate.
    Last edited by pokefiend_13; 26th June 2008 at 8:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    I'm aware not all illegal immigrants will follow through with this policy, however not all illegal aliens are Mexican bus boys. Many of them come here illegally to try to mold in with society for a better life than in their native country.
    And by doing that they usually take cheap jobs either through the labor field such as yard work, or through the construction field. There are very few Illegals that are able to get a real job these days becuase employers are required by law to make sure they are here legally.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    Besides that, many illegal immigrants commit crimes only out of desperation. (since committing a crime will only give illegals unneeded attention from the law enforcement) By giving them a choice, the government would be significantly lowering the publics crime rate.
    I am sure the many many police officers that have been killed by Illegals in the past few years around here would be glad to know that they died becuase Illegals only did the crime out of desperation. Lets not forget that even BEING here is a crime they are comitting. Not to mention that we are getting more and more coming over to just set up new gang territory on the other side of the Rio Grande.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    Many of them come here illegally to try to mold in with society for a better life than in their native country.
    LMAO.

    Most of them come here just to make money and return home to their country a richer person. They have no desire to stay in this country nor to contribute to it. They're here to blindly raid us and then leave when they've taken all that they can. Also, a good portion of our illegals are criminals and are involved in some of the most notorious gangs around. Gangs such as the Mara Salvatrucha, a gang which even most of your hardended police officers fear, were started(and fed) by illegal Mexican and El Salvadorian immigrants in the US.

    Besides that, many illegal immigrants commit crimes only out of desperation.
    It's all 'bout the Benjamins, G.

    By giving them a choice, the government would be significantly lowering the publics crime rate.
    How can you equate having a driver's license as lowering the public crime rate? The two are unrelated. ICE can still round up these illegals and deport them, regardless of whether they have a driver's license or not.

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    there are two different view points to this:

    if you want to END illegal immigration, you need strict laws. no appeasement. that includes deporting them and throwing them out. that simple. reduce the incentive to come and they'll think twice.

    if you want it to continue but only because you think they come for a better life.. then, well, that's you.

    of course, i personally don't see why they can't do it legally. so i prefer the first position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostAnime View Post
    there are two different view points to this:

    if you want to END illegal immigration, you need strict laws. no appeasement. that includes deporting them and throwing them out. that simple. reduce the incentive to come and they'll think twice.

    if you want it to continue but only because you think they come for a better life.. then, well, that's you.

    of course, i personally don't see why they can't do it legally. so i prefer the first position.
    They do it illegally because it's expensive to do it legally and oftentimes they get rejected anyways. Mexico sucks, so they come illegally anyway.

    And a lot of them DO come for jobs and stuff. People from other central American countries are immigrating to Mexico illegally, and they suck up jobs in Mexico. So then the Mexicans come north. They go back because they don't want to displace their families. They view it like going into the city for work, then going back to the suburbs with their family.

    Of course, that causes problems, but you have to see it from their perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irith_Locke View Post
    They do it illegally because it's expensive to do it legally and oftentimes they get rejected anyways. Mexico sucks, so they come illegally anyway.
    Okay so we should forgive people for their crimes becuase their life is hard? My family has been hit hard by the housing crisis, does that give me the right to go hold up a Convenience Store? By your logic I should be allowed to becuase life is hard and it is expensive to do stuff legally. What about rob your house? Can I do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irith_Locke View Post
    And a lot of them DO come for jobs and stuff.
    Havnt been to the border have ya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irith_Locke View Post
    People from other central American countries are immigrating to Mexico illegally, and they suck up jobs in Mexico.
    Umm that is a lie, Mexico has the strongest Immigration laws around, which is why they tend to bypass Mexico. If you are caught in Mexico as a illegal and are not heading to the border. You usually do not make it out alive, and if you do, you tend to be beaten, broken, and starving, as you are kicked out at the border.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irith_Locke View Post
    So then the Mexicans come north. They go back because they don't want to displace their families. They view it like going into the city for work, then going back to the suburbs with their family.
    Except of course they are breaking the law, taking up jobs, and hogging tax payers money. Drug dealers go to work too you know, as do thieves, as do a wide variety of criminals. What do they have in common with Illegals? They all are breaking the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irith_Locke View Post
    Of course, that causes problems, but you have to see it from their perspective.
    I do see it from their perspective, I also see it from the perspective of the border towns that do not know how much longer till the Mexican gangs really spill over. Or the perspective of the mother who has to watch their son go through drug withdrawls becuase that truck carrying illegals was also trafficing drugs. Or from the perspective of a Nurse in California who is getting laid off becuase their hospitals cannot handle the flood of illegals and has to shut down.

    There are many perspectives, including those that comit other crimes for money just like what these illegals are doing. Now how about we start glorifying the robbers? Becuase in reality they are no different than the Illegals.

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    I agree with Lutz. We need to make stronger immigration laws and borders so as to not only protect our citizens, but to make it so that coming to the US is so impossibly difficult as an illegal immigrant. We cannot reward people for coming here illegally. Which is why I strongly feel that we, as a country, should not grant US citizenship to anyone who is born here. If you want to be a citizen at birth, one of your parents must either be a citizen or legal permanent resident AND you have to prove it.

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    For the record, not all illegal aliens come from Mexico's border and reside in the southern states. >.> Too many people in this thread are over-generalizing illegal immigration into one assortment.

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    There is exaggeration and truth in this thread.

    I don't think we should start handing out lisense to illegals. Not that I'm generalizing them into criminals, but it would just be a bad idea. It's pretty much giving fake IDs out because there is no way to prove all the information they gave you. Which could makes things alot worse now that they have "ID."

    The real solution to this problem would be: stronger security and to make it easier to become legal in this country. Obviously check them as they come in, and if they aren't criminals, give them their papers. I have no problems with them in our country as long as they are paying taxes and doing their part in society. And if they happen to be criminals, then, just like everyone else, have the same consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhiyuck View Post
    Obviously check them as they come in
    why is this so obvious? you just bring more and more since they know they can do it illegally.
    Last edited by GhostAnime; 27th June 2008 at 2:44 PM.
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    If they're illegal, the only thing they should be doing is getting out o.O
    I mean, they're called illegal immigrants because they entered the country illegally, right?
    Hence, if they do find some loophole to stay here, they shouldn't get many rights at all. Maybe as an incentive to leave ._.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostAnime View Post
    why is this so obvious? you just bring more and more since they know they can do it illegally.
    And we're their still getting in illegially and now we want to give them lisenses? If they're here anyway make them pay taxes.

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    EDIT: actually, i don't think you got my point.

    i was questioning why you wanted to 'check them in'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Quick, someone get the scientific community onto this one! A truly brilliant hypothesis that would have been insofar overlooked by every researcher who has contributed to this field of science. And it's only 8th grade stuff!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Zero
    I roam Johto with my partner Pokemon, Rattata, who knows Hyper Fang, Sunny Day, Rock Smash and Cut. Anyone who runs with more than one Pokemon or evolves their Pokemon takes the game way too seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokefiend_13 View Post
    For the record, not all illegal aliens come from Mexico's border and reside in the southern states. >.> Too many people in this thread are over-generalizing illegal immigration into one assortment.
    No just a great majority of them, hell we cut off Illegal Immigration from the Mexican Border and we wouldnt have a problem with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostAnime View Post
    EDIT: actually, i don't think you got my point.

    i was questioning why you wanted to 'check them in'.
    I may be misunderstanding you... but I don't get what your saying. I just want the ones that are in the country or trying to get in to have papers so they have to pay taxes, etc.

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    but giving them an easy way in despite breaking the rules just encourages more of them to do it. thus, the problem isn't solved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
    Quick, someone get the scientific community onto this one! A truly brilliant hypothesis that would have been insofar overlooked by every researcher who has contributed to this field of science. And it's only 8th grade stuff!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Zero
    I roam Johto with my partner Pokemon, Rattata, who knows Hyper Fang, Sunny Day, Rock Smash and Cut. Anyone who runs with more than one Pokemon or evolves their Pokemon takes the game way too seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    No just a great majority of them, hell we cut off Illegal Immigration from the Mexican Border and we wouldnt have a problem with it.
    The policy this topic is concerning has nothing much to do with ridding massive illegal immigration, because frankly that's never gonna quite happen--as long as our country's standard of living continues to heighten.

    What this policy does offer is more safety to its citizen's against the ignorance illegal aliens traditionally have to national traffic rules and signs. Additionally, this policy will supply law enforcement with new faces and information, so they can operate more effectively in stopping repeated crimes.

    The policy in discussion is highly inexpensive (in fact it may help the economy by lowering insurance costs), and shows some effective promise since the policy is currently active in five states, including New Mexico. The only thing stopping more states from adopting this policy is its immense unpopularity--which in my opinion is mostly due to the public's ill taste to immigrants as a whole.

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