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Thread: Why was G-chomp added to Ubers!?!?!

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    Default Why was G-chomp added to Ubers!?!?!

    I've used garchomp for the majority of my time w/ D/P, and just found out that he's an uber! What gives?
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    Can't believe you actually did it. But seriously your breaking a lot of rules by postig this here. Go post this thread in the general pokemon discussion area or something like that.

    Just to answer your question Garchomp was used too much thats why it was placed in ubers.
    Last edited by PhantomSoul; 2nd November 2008 at 4:17 AM.
        Spoiler:- Click here if you dare:
    Originally Posted by Digital Love
    So liek one day Garchomp wuz liek "Hey u guyz, why am i's so gewds?" and peeps wur lieks "idk chomp, you da man" so now he's an uber

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    So liek one day Garchomp wuz liek "Hey u guyz, why am i's so gewds?" and peeps wur lieks "idk chomp, you da man" so now he's an uber



    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ace View Post
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    garchomp was also moved because it's quite hard to find a counter for it, if you're lucky you might have an ice type with you but it's too hard to predict

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Love View Post
    So liek one day Garchomp wuz liek "Hey u guyz, why am i's so gewds?" and peeps wur lieks "idk chomp, you da man" so now he's an uber
    Lol, thats a funny post xD

    I'm not big fan of chomp but ya as lucazard said, hard to have a counter icey things for chomp ;]
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    he was moved mainly because of the yache berry set. he became very hard to counter and was considered overcentralising, thus he is now uber, so is deoxy s if ya didn't know

    Just to answer your question Garchomp was used too much thats why it was placed in ubers.
    i don't think you quite understand how the tiers work. Ou is standard, uber is the ou ban list (not ou pokemon used most. uu is the "weaker" tier, bl serves as both a uu ban list and a hang out for the pokemon not quite good enough for ou
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    There are NO usable counters.

    Anything that comes close to a counter *******ises the pokemon so much that it loses most/all of its usefulness against anything other then garchomp. A good example is SUICUNE.

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    Good thread, you get 5 stars.
    What is this I don't even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
    i don't think you quite understand how the tiers work. Ou is standard, uber is the ou ban list (not ou pokemon used most. uu is the "weaker" tier, bl serves as both a uu ban list and a hang out for the pokemon not quite good enough for ou
    This is what i thought of the tiers, OU are pokemon that get over used, UU are pokemon that are under used, BL are pokemon on the border line where they are half half and UBER are too strong pokemon and all those other reasons, this is what Smogon says

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    OU is another name for standard play. UU are for pokemon are inferior to standard pokemon to the point. BL is when an UU breaks UU and moves up, or a former OU pokemon gets very little usage so it's moved down

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    where did you get this info i got it from smogon.

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    u learn as u go, i picked it up off others actually didnt discover smogon til fairly recenty. i sometimes wish i never had discovered it.

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    Tier decisions based off raw usage alone is still pretty stupid really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ace View Post
    Tier decisions based off raw usage alone is still pretty stupid really.
    The fact that there is are tiers for über and BL suggests that it's not based wholly on usage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimoVenusaur View Post
    The fact that there is are tiers for über and BL suggests that it's not based wholly on usage.
    Ubers is the only exception.

    BL is double being both a ban list for UU and a place where low usage OU go.
    Last edited by Blue Ace; 2nd November 2008 at 5:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ace View Post
    Ubers is the only exception.

    BL is double being both a ban list for UU and a place where low usage OU go.
    Not really. The tier list is for how powerful pokemon are. Whilst the names are the frequency, the placement is the power. Powerful pokemon like Infernape and Weavile are placed in the OU because they're powerful, thus they're over used. BL is for weaker pokemon that mop the floor with their competition in the UU, but are too weak in this or that aspect to stand in the OU. It could be because of their move pool, their base stats, or their ability and typing in combination with their move pool and base stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballade View Post
    Not really. The tier list is for how powerful pokemon are. Whilst the names are the frequency, the placement is the power. .
    Oh how I wish this was true, sadly it's not the case.

    Smogon tier list is about the usage before anything else, if it gets high usage its OU, low usage is UU, pokes that are too strong for UU are BL, and OU pokes that aren't used as much regardless of how good they are are BL.

    One could say usefulness is reflected in usage, which is what Smogon believes is absolute, though that really shouldnt be all there is to it.

    For example Donphan is clearly not OU, but since it gets high usage they put it there, despite the fact that it's not that good really. As a wall Hippowdon beats it, as a spinner it's outclassed by many others and weak to Toxic Spikes, as a sweeper it is outclassed by Rhyperior.

    Same with Tentacruel, all it really does is counter MixApe, Rapid Spin and set up T-Spikes, outside of that it doesn't do much if anything else. The poison typing doesn't allow it to come in on ground types like other bulky waters can or the ever so common Earthquake, it's special attack is far too low to pose a threat to anything, and it can't recover without giving up what it can do best. Yet it's OU because of usage.

    Which brings us to a problem, for example if everyone started using Spinda, despite the fact that it sucks, but gets a gigantic boost in usage, then it would be OU.
    Last edited by Blue Ace; 2nd November 2008 at 9:39 PM.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Kl1jzlazw

    This is why Garchomp is uber.

    Seriously, I thought the move was wrong too, but still, I don't know why we can't just ignore Smogon's judgement for once. I mean, it's not like they made Pokemon. There's a lot to thank them for, but nevertheless, Garchomp shouldn't be Uber in many people's opinions, and basing it entirely on usage is silly. Serebii should really break away from Smogon.


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    So liek one day Garchomp wuz liek "Hey u guyz, why am i's so gewds?" and peeps wur lieks "idk chomp, you da man" so now he's an uber
    Liek, omg, I freaking CANT stop laughing, that was freaking hilarious, you get 4 1/2 stars and 3 cookies ^_^

    This is why Garchomp is uber.

    Seriously, I thought the move was wrong too, but still, I don't know why we can't just ignore Smogon's judgement for once. I mean, it's not like they made Pokemon. There's a lot to thank them for, but nevertheless, Garchomp shouldn't be Uber in many people's opinions, and basing it entirely on usage is silly. Serebii should really break away from Smogon.
    Tru dat! Although I never was a fan of chomp ><; the video was weird, I don't think smogon is that arrogant, but how would I know, I don't go on smogon anymore >_>

    Chomp is Uber because… People used him too much. It's as simple as Chomp got used TOO much so he's Uber, Weezing didn't get used ENOUGH not he's UU. I don't think that people didn't expect him, I mean if you didn't expect chomp you deserved to lose, so if you expect him every team should've had a Chomp counter. I mean, in G/S/C EVERY team had a Snorlax counter, Lax was close but never got banned to Ubers, and whoever didn't have a Lax counter lost.

    So Chomp shouldn't be uber, Smogon needs to lose some credibility and, if not Serebii, somebody else needs to make a different tier list.
    Last edited by ForteXXX; 2nd November 2008 at 10:42 PM.

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    People are being mislead here, usage isn't what makes pokemon Ubers, and it certainly isn't the reason Garchomp was deemed Uber. Usage only applies to every other tier.

    Garchomp was banned because he was incredibly powerful and virtually un counterable, it's as simple as that.




    EDIT: Salavoir wanted to say something, though lag is getting the best of him apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salavoir55
    LOL! And at first I was wondering why this thread was five stars. That video is hilarious. Wrong but hilarious. I'd rate it five stars but can't access the thread.

    If I remember right, Smogon did plenty of testing with Garchomp. In fact, I believe it was the first to go on their Suspect ladder. In other words, it was not based on usage this time; it was based on brokenness and overcentralization (mostly because of the Yache set + Sand Veil as mentioned above).

    As for breaking with Smogon, as long as those listed on the Certified List + those drop-ins from Smogon keep comming here D/P/Pt CRMT isn't going to break from it anytime soon. They still have our respect.

    However, as said before the video is incorrect. First of all, Serebii should be indebted to Smogon for lifting CRMT out of the dust and bringing it the definitely better spot it is today. The reason why Serebii has gotten better is because of Smogoners comming here and rating teams. Although some of them have gone (especially magtrio), they have left their knowledge here.

    I myself have never joined Smogon. I did lurk around there at one point, but I never joined it. A good chunk of what I've learned has been from the visiting Smogon raters and those here who learned from them. Serebii has gotten better and is still getting better because visiting Smogon raters those and we who've learned from them are here rating teams.

    Secondly, the regulars here have and never will accept what Smogon says as law. Remember the Wobbuffett fiasco? Not one of us accepted Wobbuffett as being OU. We all knew and said that it was going to go back to uber, and it did. Even now there are certain things we disagree on (i.e., some of their EV spreads), but you know what? Smogon is working on it! It just takes time.

    Finally, if Serebii ever tried to break from Smogon, you can be sure that the regulars and learned ones of CRMT won't let that happen easily. We listen to what Smogon says for the most part and will continue to rate teams according to them until they lose our respect, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon. We may bash Smogon here or there, but we still know that it is the place for competitive battling and that most of the flaws we find in it will be fixed in good time.

    Regardless of what I just said though, that video is awesome! I watched it without sound, and I could barely keep from really "laughing out loud." I wonder what one of the Somgon staff would say about it?

    Also, as for anything I've said about Smogon, a lot of it is hearsay because I was very inactive when Garchomp was made uber, so I'd appreciate a confirmation/correction from someone who knew.
    Last edited by Blue Ace; 2nd November 2008 at 11:21 PM.
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    Garchomp was considered an Uber by a vote from about 50 Smogoners who had proved their credibility through a sufficient Shoddy ranking on both the standard and suspect ladders. The only person who voted that I recognized as on Serebii would be Mysterious Stallion. I'd imagine that others such as Unaware and possibly Blue Ace are capable of such a ranking given the short notice that they got. A CRE of 1650 isn't easy to maintain when you have a large group of people intending to reach this target.

    The Smogon tier list is based off of usage and power. They figured that usage implies power (in a certain metagame), and that works in only a purely competitive community such as Smogon.

    I'm going to make a simplified SSBB comparison here. Captain Falcon is the most epic character in Brawl. People use sometimes him for that reason alone. However, the large population of Captain Falcon users are not likely to win many tournaments due to Meta Knight. Eventually, these Captain Falcon users will realize that it's useless to use Captain Falcon because he's so common and there are easy ways to deal with him (Meta Knight). These Captain Falcon users will go to MK and main him in order to be one of the ones who trounce other Captain Falcons and has no bad matchups. Eventually, we get a large amount of MK players who only play MK because it's useless to play anything else to win. Some smart players realized, hey, Snake can deal with MK pretty well if I camp and spam my tilts. So there became more Snake users who started winning tournaments that were once dominated by Snake.

    Of course, the MK users weren't happy. So they searched for the most broken move they could use. This is called the Infinite Dimensional Cape. Eventually, they also found other ways around Snake, and Snake users no longer had the advantage. At this point, MK usage increased to a gross amount such that it eliminated any chance of a lesser sword/non projectile user from winnning a tournament except for GaW. So after a bunch of threads and flaming, the cape move still isn't banned (only for stalling), and the skill of MK users is skyrocketing. Competitive Brawl is currently reaching a point where the game is no longer fun (Melee addicts would argue it has been this way since the day it came out but w/e).

    Just replace MK with Garchomp, Infinite Dimensional Cape with Yache SD Outrage, Captain Falcon with any low BL pokemon, GaW with Bronzong. That gives you the gist of why Garchomp was banned. Except Smogon took preemptive action instead of letting it get this far as the SSBB community did. It had to be done sometime. Using an overcentralized Pokemon to counter Garchomp is just like using Bowser to counter MK. It doesn't make sense, and even if it works, whenever any good projectile user or Shiek is CP'ed, Bowser has no chance. Liken this to using Cloyster as a Garchomp counter, if you will.

    Basically it works like this: If you weren't motivated/experienced enough to make the deadline or have an account on smogon + the prerequisite ranking, then your opinion wasn't a deciding factor. Smogon is about competitive battling at it's finest, highest skill level. It may not apply to lesser-skilled players at Serebii or Marriland (lol).

    Serebii will never have a tier list that will be respected by anyone else. This is because it is a place for both casual and competitive gamers alike, and it is difficult to discern who influenced the list. But who could blame them for not trusting it- basically anyone who doesn't post in this forum is either a mod or a casual player. With the sheer number of casual players, the experienced players are likely to be ignored. One of the CRMT commoners could go to a DPPt thread and have their insight completely ignored.

    Edit: Yes, Salavoir55 has a complete understanding of this issue. Although aside from newbioform, I don't know anyone in CRMT who is pretty active on Smogon.
    Last edited by Kingdrom; 2nd November 2008 at 11:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdrom View Post
    I'd imagine that others such as Unaware and possibly Blue Ace are capable of such a ranking given the short notice that they got.
    You give me too much credit =/ I can't even break 1500, and I don't battle on the Suspect ladder.

    I know Tochu could have been part of the vote, though he was heavily inactive at that time, as well as Extra. Reno also could have made it as well, but didn't want to.

    Serebii will never have a tier list that will be respected by anyone else. This is because it is a place for both casual and competitive gamers alike, and it is difficult to discern who influenced the list. But who could blame them for not trusting it- basically anyone who doesn't post in this forum is either a mod or a casual player. With the sheer number of casual players, the experienced players are likely to be ignored. One of the CRMT commoners could go to a DPPt thread and have their insight completely ignored.
    Serebii did have it's own Tier list for awhile, but was removed for the reasons you stated, though the thought of making a tier list of our own is very tempting...
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    Serebii did have it's own Tier list for awhile, but was removed for the reasons you stated, though the thought of making a tier list of our own is very tempting...
    That would be SO awesome, although Serebii would need a Shoddy server which probably won't happen

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    its just pathetic. and people listen to smogon

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    I am waiting for the day when I can claim that Metaknight is so badass he was the first Smash Bros. character to ever be banned. The SSB community will do anything before they ban a character, it's both hilarious and pathetic.

    The last Serebii tier list failed miserably (mostly because of MistyLover but some other people contributed too).
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