~Shipping Authors' Café~

[Vanilla*Twilight]

Hey, ^.^
iam a struggling noobie writer! i just posted my first fic and it wasnt very popular only 65views and 2 posts from other users.
and didnt make sense. The puctuation is horrible(i sux at it T.T)
something about spacing.
so would anyone like to read it?
i was thinking of closing the thread and trying again.

[Dan The Poke Man]

What's the title of it? I'd like to read it.

[TR4eva]

Well, I've recently posted my first fic on the site. It's called 'Burning Love' and it's a Rocketshipping fic. It took awhile to write and I am really proud of it. No one has replied or reviewed it yet, but when they do I'm sure they would have enjoyed the fic and wrote a good and constructive review.

[Gazmof]

(and yes, writing a fic is much more productive than Farmville)

Yeah, but you need to make sure your crops are watered frequently!

Well, in an attempt to spark some interest in this thread again, I was just thinking about something which has been bugging me for a while, yet I haven't really spoken out about it until now: shipping fics which place an overly-important focus on legendary Pokemon, or some kind of great struggle between good vs evil.

Now, I don't have a problem with these fics, by any means (most of them are chapter-fics, which I very rarely have the time or energy to read anyway), but I am curious as to why they seem so popular lately. Perhaps it's due to the DP movie "trilogy" which focused on Dialga vs Palkia vs Giratina vs Arceus all blowing stuff up for no reason, or maybe it's that most people find straight shipping fics which focus solely on a relationship's development difficult to write without some kind of "epic plot" to tie everything together.

It seems to me, when I do skim through these fics or read up on their summaries, that the primary shipping that is supposed to occur is either shoved into the reader's face at random intervals to remind you that they're there, or even worse - the relationship is ignored in favour of progressing the plot against the evil Pokemon/Team/Maniac antagonist until the very end of the story where the token couple kiss and live happily ever after. My point is that most of the instances where I've read fics that involve this huge, epic plot that could involve the destruction of the universe, shipping is tacked on like an afterthought, almost as if the writer just added it to get a few cheap reviews from shippers.

Of course this is a generalisation, but I find that focusing on too many things in a shipping fic detracts from its purpose: to provide fluff and entertain and put a couple into a situation which can show romantic chemistry between the two of them. If it is simply an epic good vs evil fic with a little bit of shipping in it, then I think it should be labeled as such.

I'd like to mention that I'm talking about shipping fics from all across the place - not just on Serebii. Fanfiction.net is the most notorious, in my opinion.

So here's my question to you all:

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?

And...

If you're a reader, why do you enjoy these kinds of fics? Is there enough shipping for your liking or would you prefer more?

I'm no stranger to good vs evil plotlines (my first ever Pokemon fic was placed in the regular fic section here and focused on exactly that, and I'm currently posting up a sequel to it), but I do find them obnoxious in a shipping fic most of the time (there are writers who have managed to pull it off whilst not alienating me from a lack of shipping, don't get me wrong). I just think it's an abused genre right now and wanted to get people's thoughts on why they're good/bad/indifferent.

[Encyclopika]

Yeah, but you need to make sure your crops are watered frequently!

Yes, that and Restaurant City. ...Facebook kills me inside...
Anyway! I have wanted this thread to get back up and running, but I'm pathetic and couldn't think of anything. XD So, thank you.

Of course this is a generalisation, but I find that focusing on too many things in a shipping fic detracts from its purpose: to provide fluff and entertain and put a couple into a situation which can show romantic chemistry between the two of them. If it is simply an epic good vs evil fic with a little bit of shipping in it, then I think it should be labeled as such.

In my opinion, if you are writing a fic about a struggle of epic proportions in the way you described, then it's not a shipping fic by any means. There's a reason why the rules here in the shipping fic community have pointed it out as not-shipping fic material. What those fics are, is simply just another type of fic that adds romance, kinda, into the scenario - I doubt it's main purpose was to make shippers happy.
However! there is nothing wrong with mixing romance into epic battle/struggle. But the difference is this - the romance has to DEVELOP because of said epic struggle or epic struggle is the EFFECT of said romance (forbidden love, for example). That way, neither component of the fic interferes with the other - they blend and I think, makes the fic 10x better, especially in the ladder case.

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?
As said, then I don't consider it a shipping fic. However, I would go so far as to make said primary plotline contain both shipping and the other plot, granted they affect each other in a balence that would not tick you off as explained.

If you're a reader, why do you enjoy these kinds of fics? Is there enough shipping for your liking or would you prefer more?
Would probably just be used to it. There are a lot of movies that do that - action action action - "oh look! The hero and heroine got together in the end. How nice...as a shipper, I knew that would happen." XD However, I wouldn't go into a fic like that thinking I'd get a proper shipping fix. That doesn't happen.

[Gazmof]

Ha, well, it's a shame, because people always seem to ignore this thread, but I think it's a great opportunity to discuss the different dynamics that shipping fics require compared to regular Pokemon fanfiction, especially since very few shipping authors hang out around that part of the forums.

However! there is nothing wrong with mixing romance into epic battle/struggle. But the difference is this - the romance has to DEVELOP because of said epic struggle or epic struggle is the EFFECT of said romance (forbidden love, for example). That way, neither component of the fic interferes with the other - they blend and I think, makes the fic 10x better, especially in the ladder case.

Yes, I totally agree with you on this point. My post may have seemed totally anti-epic when it comes to shipping, but I'm not at all - I'm a firm believer that a good writer can make pretty much any concept enjoyable, but often I see so much potential wasted in large chapter fics because it seems that the author wasn't really sure how to balance the two sides well and either both aspects of the story become diluted and not up to par, or one aspect outweighs the other in depth and overtakes the story.

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?
As said, then I don't consider it a shipping fic.

But then comes the question of "where do you draw the line?" I personally find it very difficult to add fluff to every chapter of a fic (I strive to do it, but sometimes putting it in for the sake of it simply being there detracts from the objective of the chapter, in my opinion).

If you're a reader, why do you enjoy these kinds of fics? Is there enough shipping for your liking or would you prefer more?
Would probably just be used to it. There are a lot of movies that do that - action action action - "oh look! The hero and heroine got together in the end. How nice...as a shipper, I knew that would happen." XD However, I wouldn't go into a fic like that thinking I'd get a proper shipping fix. That doesn't happen.

Ha, I think you just summed up the entire shipping process perfectly.

[Encyclopika]

But then comes the question of "where do you draw the line?" I personally find it very difficult to add fluff to every chapter of a fic (I strive to do it, but sometimes putting it in for the sake of it simply being there detracts from the objective of the chapter, in my opinion).

Good question. My best way of arguing is to use an example, which is my fic Demons of Metropolis. I had this one in mind when I read your post, and when I said that "epic struggle is the EFFECT of the ship". In that one, I used the forbidden love tactic, and had almost every major event of the "epic struggle" the effect of the decisions made in the ship. That way, the story still focused on the ship itself and the epic struggle was blended into it.
I guess I'd draw the line at...quality, not quantity. I think that if you're going to have a huge fic with other plots (my source of experience: Contest Tie) then having a substantial amount of fluff in every chapter will probably not be possible, especially if your epic struggle is going to be half the fic. I think a half/half fic could work as a shipping fic as long as when there is fluff, it's completely worth it...or rather, very good.

I think what we're discussing here is the difference between the classic action fic vs the true romance fic. The line there is simply - is the ship as focused on as the struggle? If so, I'd say it's a shipping fic. Any less than half, and it's just not a shipping fic. The rules draw the line at "if they merely get together in the end, we're not accepting it". It's vague, but I suppose we always assumed people just knew the difference. Trying to characterize it now is quite difficult, as seen by my ramble in this post. XD Hope it makes sense.

[Gazmof]

Yes, that does make sense. I wasn't really thinking along the lines of movies and things like that which include everything in a neat little package, which is a good analogy to make. I agree with you about a plotline being half and half, and sometimes shippiness simply can't invade every chapter without sacrificing either some element of plot construction, another character's development outside of the 'ship itself, or even just disrupting the flow of the writing and pace of the story.

I've actually been toying with the idea of writing more of a "slice of life" fic with a light-hearted approach, since so many fics nowadays seem to be quite dark either in presentation or their overall grand scheme of things. This is probably another reason why I tend to read one-shots more than chapter-fics (aside from time constraints), since they're usually lighter in atmosphere and more focused on shipping as a whole, so I can get my quick shipping fix without focusing my energy into absorbing myself in the world of the fic.

I have a bunch of other topic ideas, too, but I'd better leave them for now in case anyone else wants to jump into this conversation ^^; I'm really interested in seeing what makes these epic fics so popular, so I'd like to get more input from readers especially.

[Chaos_Umbreon]

I can't answer the first question as I have only written 1 One-Shot so far and it did not fall into the epic battle category, but I have read quite a few fics that mention shipping, and they fall into different categories;

First is the pure shipping fics in which the plot itself is the shipping that can involve an emotional struggle and some Pokemon battles.

Second is the 50/50 shipping/epic fics which true ones are not very common as getting the balance right is very difficult as the plot can become too complex and too many characters are introduced or the shipping is forced too quickly at the start or end and is ignored the rest of the time

Lastly is the fics in which shipping is not the main focus and the plot takes over as the part that makes you keep reading, most of these fics are ones that tried to be 50% shipping but failed and normally the plot doesn't make up for it in this category, however, the good fics in this category are not normally lablled as Romance fics but Action/Adventure fics, but might have a side note in the summary that it contains bits of a certain ship.

As I normally limit the number of fics that I read by setting a parameter which is that it mentions Advanceshipping as that is what I like otherwise I would spend my whole life reading fanfics, I do come across all 3 main types;

I would place Gazmof's Good Love Charm in the first group along with PikamasterADV's May's Crush as the plot is directly related to events happening to the paired up character's causing a development in their relationship.

The best example of a fic in the second group is EarthBorn's Destiny Bond Series, as the plot creates a situation where it causes the associated pairing to become closer.

The best I have read in the third group is BlueBongo's trilogy on fanfiction.net, but I would say that it is the incredible plot that makes it a brilliant fic rather than any shipping and coincidently it's genre is not listed as Romance (but says contains Advanceshipping in the summary), which is why any shipping is inconsistent at times as if it has been forgotten.

If you're a reader, why do you enjoy these kinds of fics? Is there enough shipping for your liking or would you prefer more?

If it is well written and thought out with a really good plot then I would enjoy reading it but the enjoyment won't come from any shipping (apart from when there are odd chapters that are heavily shipping orientated), it would come from a good storyline instead.

See Ya!

Chaos Out!

[midnightjewelz]

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?

Well that's hard for me, what motivates me is pretty much one scene i think of, normally when i go to bed i think of anything i like. i think and imagine the scene and then think of many ways to end and start it. when i write i don't really focus on the shipping itself until i later on or when i think its time to put some in. I haven't had any good idea since i started my fic, Mysterious Stranger. so yeah. ^^;

Oh yes i have a question i want to ask, In my fic, Mysterious Stranger the story is begin told in May's P.O.V, im planning to do a part two later on, but im not sure if i should continue writing it in May's P.O.V or go to Ash's P.O.V. Can anyone help me?

[Skiyomi]

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?

I think what you said about stories starting from inspired scenes hits the nail right on the head. It becomes about making certain scenarios possible/believable.

I also think you need something else to drive the story forward besides just romance. Especially if you want to build up to the couple. And most of the people I ship are a bit... standoffish (I think this is true in a lot of anime), so they need that build up. I also find that shippy moments often come out naturally in what you expected just to be plot progression, so that's nice.

A personal note of POV, since it was brought up. I hate choosing which Point of View to take since I don't like limiting myself to one person's mind, so I generally go the omniscient narrator route and sort of resonate it to the thoughts of others. That way I can decide whose thoughts to show and whose to hide.

Buuuut, that doesn't always work in all circumstances. For example, since my fic Diplomacy has more of a mystery element, I'm basically keeping it all in Filia's perspective (not first person, though).

[scarecrow62]

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?

i would have to say that my current fic is a mixture of a traditional fic and a shipping fic, because it deals with the shippings, but they occur in the everyday lives of the characters. i feel that if your writing a shipping fic with a more 'hardcore' plotline that doesnt directly apply to the ship its not a ship fic, but if they intertwine together, then its okay to consider it as such.



Another thing i wanted to talk about was the subject of OC's
my current fic. entitled "everything is alright" (yes that is a blatent advertisement, and for those of you who know, a song by motion city soundtrack) my main male character, as of right now as more will be added later, is an OC, but only sort of. hes a character from the pokemon series, but hes not in the anime and therefore i gave him his own name and personality, and i feel that that is okay as for a main character.


and on the subject of musical insparation,
im really into Motion city soundtrack these days, and i tend to listen to them while i write. i feel that they give my writing a mellow feel because they are like an indy pop punk band.

[Encyclopika]

Aw, this thread is alive again!

Another thing i wanted to talk about was the subject of OC's
my current fic. entitled "everything is alright" (yes that is a blatent advertisement, and for those of you who know, a song by motion city soundtrack) my main male character, as of right now as more will be added later, is an OC, but only sort of. hes a character from the pokemon series, but hes not in the anime and therefore i gave him his own name and personality, and i feel that that is okay as for a main character.

So...what did you want to say about OCs? I don't think we ever got to talking about them in this thread. XD There's quite a lot to discuss about them and how they should be used. Where do you want to start? XD

[scarecrow62]

So...what did you want to say about OCs? I don't think we ever got to talking about them in this thread. XD There's quite a lot to discuss about them and how they should be used. Where do you want to start? XD

they were mentioned earlier, and i realize now i probably should have quoted that, but i mean i would say that originality is good, and i really just hit a thought block, i have no clue where to go from there. sorry for killing that conversation, unless someone else wants to step in and comment *hint to the rest of the world* but i would want to try and see what the people's view is on the use of OC's an a primary character.

[Skiyomi]

they were mentioned earlier, and i realize now i probably should have quoted that, but i mean i would say that originality is good, and i really just hit a thought block, i have no clue where to go from there. sorry for killing that conversation, unless someone else wants to step in and comment *hint to the rest of the world* but i would want to try and see what the people's view is on the use of OC's an a primary character.

You didn't kill the conversation... you revive it from the dead! Something I, personally, rejoice over!

So, let's talk OCs then. I've used 'em... but only in the supporting cast. They can be a lot of fun in the supporting cast, and hey, if you're putting your characters in a different setting then an original supporting cast is practically a necessity. It can be a bit of a challenge, though, how much you use them in that reguard. I mean, you don't want them to be just stock characters, but you don't want them taking too much of the stage and taking attention away from the real stars of your fic. So I think they have to show a lot of subtle flair in a short amount of space.

As for OCs as main characters... I'll be honest, it's not something I'd do in fanfiction. Not that they have to be badly written, it's just that I'd prefer to read about characters I'm already a fan of... and I think a lot of readers are the same way. I think you're always gonna be alienating some readers if you have a main characters OC, but hey, there are a lot of things that alienate readers. If you're okay with drawing from that pool of readers that's cool with the OC, then that's fine as long as your OC is a well developed character that interacts with the cast in a realistic way. I think it's just important to realize that you're making that choice when you have an OC for a main character.

That's just my take on OCs. Someone else may say different.

[scarecrow62]

As for OCs as main characters... I'll be honest, it's not something I'd do in fanfiction. Not that they have to be badly written, it's just that I'd prefer to read about characters I'm already a fan of... and I think a lot of readers are the same way. I think you're always gonna be alienating some readers if you have a main characters OC, but hey, there are a lot of things that alienate readers. If you're okay with drawing from that pool of readers that's cool with the OC, then that's fine as long as your OC is a well developed character that interacts with the cast in a realistic way. I think it's just important to realize that you're making that choice when you have an OC for a main character.

That's just my take on OCs. Someone else may say different.

I would agree that OC's as main characters is a little sketchy, but the OC that i am using is a player character that i really like, and I am just giving him a voice. I feel that is acceptable. Also i beleive that the shipping i have put him in is legitamate. I have seen it referenced, so i dont feel that he is as much of an OC. I would place him somwhere in between.

[Encyclopika]

I agree with Skiyomi on OCs, but much more strict - I'd rather never see them in the main character slot, namely because once you start making up your own characters and ships, you might as well just write a normal story. Fanfiction gets a quick audience by using characters and dynamics between those characters already present in the program fans are fans of...unless it's crack, but even then, everyone involved is still a recognizable character. However, I'm sure there are some instances where it's been done and worked. I just usually dislike OCs as the main in shipping fic because I find that they are usually used to put the author with the character they like. When it comes to that, I'd rather people keep 'em to themselves. XP Anyway, that's just how I view it. Hope no one thinks I'm mean, it's just what I think.

I think that OCs are best used in the background as Skiyomi put it. I've used OCs in the past to concoct new situations for my ships, usually as catalysts. But in many of my fics, I try to fill all the important slots up with existing characters, unless it's impossible. Using an OC for main...it's not something I'd do.

[scarecrow62]

^ I understand where you are coming from and trust me, mine wont be the only main for long, hes just where i chose to start the story, but i feel i used him in the right place, considering he hasnt appeared in the anime yet, and i feel he should, not saying that im writing for that purpose, but im saying that hes a character that i like so i used him, in my own context. Im not trying to start any fights with anyone, thats just my view.

[Lord Zant]

Hey. I'm gonna jump in here.

I find OC's as main characters to be kind of obnoxious.
Often they are smarter or stronger or more attractive than the actual main characters - it's like suddenly there's a superhero in the fic, and all the other characters are monuments - foils - to his mightiness. I think the tendency to care more about the main character OC will always exist, so I'd agree more with Encyclopika here.

On another topic, what are your opinions on projecting the fic into the future, beyond what the source material covers? A pokemon example I see often is aging the characters to their later teens so that they're a little more mature and socially perceptive.

[xxGlassRose]

I'm going to jump in here too. I'm a huge shipping author so this thread sounds like so much fun!

On OCs as main characters:
I think it would be possible in this case, because I saw scarecrow62's fic, as his main character is Ethan from HGSS, just with a different name. Think about it: When you write any game character, you are in a sense making up your own. You have to make up important parts of their personality and just about everything else other than appearance. In that case, I think it's fine to use an OC, because they're only partially yours, not your own idea. I for one have read a good deal of Soulsilvershipping and some Heartsoulshipping fics, and each Lyra is different from the next. It's the author's interpretation of a certain character.

On another topic, what are your opinions on projecting the fic into the future, beyond what the source material covers? A pokemon example I see often is aging the characters to their later teens so that they're a little more mature and socially perceptive.

I like doing that, but mosly when the characters are grown (like early 20s) or just a couple years. I don't really do future things with the other fandoms I write (Shugo Chara! and Fairy Tail), but it really depends on who can pull it off and who can't.

If you're a writer, what motivates you to write shipping fics with primary plotlines that don't focus on the shipping itself?
I hink another important thing in a story is friendship. Like I have a Poke/Ikari/Teencare story in which most of the plot revolves around a disagreement between Ash and Dawn. The shippings are important, but a big thing in this story is friendship. And in a story idea I am hoping to write someday, a Team Rocket scandal and how the six main characters stop them would be the focus, not just the shippyness.