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Thread: SPPF Christian Alliance

  1. #251
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    Welcome new members! I enjoyed reading about how you came to Christ. Answer any of the current topics or make your own! =D

    New Topic: Christianity and Media. Where do you draw the line?

    To be specific, what are your morals when it comes to music/videogames/clothes/etc.?
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  2. #252
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    To be specific, what are your morals when it comes to music/videogames/clothes/etc.?

    Music: I listen to whatever doesn't have bad swearing or language and such in it. A few swear words are okay, but all out cussing and stuff I don't go for.

    Videogames: All I play is Mario and Pokemon. I'm safe in saying I don't play violent video games. o_0

    Clothes: Err...no trashy clothes. Ever.

    Books: I read Harry Potter. Liked it. It was a good story, but of course I know what my beliefs are. Didn't read Twilight. Never will. I read a review of it in a Christian magazine. It totally will warp with your mind. And I've seen proof in my Christian friends who have become...obsessed...addicted to the series.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by chosen_one386 View Post
    Didn't read Twilight. Never will. I read a review of it in a Christian magazine. It totally will warp with your mind. And I've seen proof in my Christian friends who have become...obsessed...addicted to the series.
    It will warp your mind? Wha..? You can get obsessed over anything.

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    I would like to join!
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  5. #255
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    Welcome PokeJustice and Nyami.

    Christianity and Media. Where do you draw the line?

    Music: Most of the music I listen to are foreign songs I don't understand and video game OSTs. I tend to focus more on the melody instead of the lyrics anyways.

    Video games: As long as it is not a demonic game. I heard from someone that Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne (which you might have heard of) is pretty demonic (he actually stopped playing the game because he couldn't handle it).

    Clothes: As long as it is modest and does not contain bad messages.

    Books: As long as you remeber it is just a story and don't believe in the stuff it should be fine. BTW, based on what I've heard about Twilight, it has no appeal to me (Vampire and girl falling in love does not appeal to me) even though I do enjoy watching East Asian romantic dramas and movies.

    Clothes
    Quote Originally Posted by PokeJustice View Post
    I am now a geocenterist, a staunch defender of Intelligent Design, and I do my best to attend church every Sunday (though I don't, always...) and it STILL miffs me to hear people swear...which is why I stay away from Smogon...LOL.
    Exactly why would you believe that the Earth is at the center of the universe when it has been proven to rotate around the sun?
    Last edited by Kanto Trio; 7th January 2009 at 2:14 AM.
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  6. #256
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    To be specific, what are your morals when it comes to music/videogames/clothes/etc.?

    Music: I listen to Christian music 90% of the time, while the other 10% is either foreign, instrumental, or clean secular music.

    Videogames: I never play any games that are rated "M." I just stick to franchises like Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts, Mario, etc.

    Clothes: Clothes should be decent, never advertise negative things, and be age appropriate. (Nothing was worse than a little girl I saw in Wal-Mart that looked like a prostitute. *~*)




    I have a question for you guys. I'm seriously considering getting a tattoo. Where do you stand on this topic?


  7. #257
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    Popkewiz, you're in, just watch the one-liners. Other than that answer any of the current topics or make your own!

    New Topic: Christianity and Media. Where do you draw the line?

    Music: I hardly listen to music, but it's usually Christian. Only secular music I listen to is generally just Japanese anime openings. Other than that, nothing else. As long as it doesn't have excessive swear or promote sinful lifestyles/actions I'm fine.

    Clothes: I don't really care what I wear. I never really understood why you should spend alot of money to keep up with the current style...>.> But yeah, as long as it's modest and comfortable, I'm good.

    Videogames: I only own a DS(for now) so I'm stuck with the regular Pokemon/Mario stuff. I don't really have any "morals" for this, just kinda the same themes that I mentioned about music. I don't mind violent games, but I suck at them so I avoid them for alternate reasons...>.>

    Books: Don't read too much, but like many of you, I don't take them too seriously if they involve the supernatural and whatnot. Never understood why Twilight is so popular...Still don't want to read it to find out. lol

    Kyogre, why do you want a tattoo?(just wondering. =P)

    And I have nothing against it. I don't think there's anything in the Bible against it(except for irrelevent stuff in the Old Testement, methinks...) so go for it. =D
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    "Awake, my soul, give me eyes to see the King exalted, deserving and worthy. Awake, my soul, give me words to speak among the nations proclaiming Your glory.
    OH, HOW YOU'VE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO ONE LIKE YOU! EVER FAITHFUL TO SUCH FAITHLESS MEN LIKE US!"
    Wolves at the Gate - Awaken

  8. #258
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    Music: Morals really don't come to mind when listening to music. I don't mind cursing unless there's a lot, but only because I think it's annoying & obnoxious.

    Video Games: I really don't care if they're violent, it's just a game. I don't buy the whole "video games cause violence" thing. I don't have any video game consoles like XBox or etc, so I never really had access to play them, though. But I played the first Halo once and it was fun. I was against the boy that owned it so I didn't do too well. lol.

    Clothes: I dress modestly most times, but if I wear something that shows a lot of skin (i.e: like a dress that's backless), I make sure it's tasteful and not trashy.

    Books: Pretty open to different ideas in books.

    About tattoos: I don't like them because I don't want something permanently burned into my skin, but that's just my personal preference. I don't see anything immoral or etc about them.
    Last edited by Nyami; 7th January 2009 at 5:46 AM.

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikawho? View Post
    Kyogre, why do you want a tattoo?(just wondering. =P)

    And I have nothing against it. I don't think there's anything in the Bible against it(except for irrelevent stuff in the Old Testement, methinks...) so go for it. =D
    I want to get the Kanji-cross in my sig tattooed as a personal reminder of my faith and a conversation starter/witnessing tool.

    Down it reads Son of Light.
    Across it reads Man of God.

    But that's great that it's not against the laws of God. I would never intentionally break any of His commandments.


  10. #260

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    Howdy, Kanto Trio...

    Sixty-Seven Scriptural References which tell us that it is the Sun and not the Earth that moves


    Genesis 15:12...... "...and when the sun was going down..."

    15:17..... "...when the sun went down..."

    19:23..... "The sun was risen upon the earth."

    28:11..... "...because the sun was set...."

    32:31..... "...the sun rose...."


    Exodus 17:12..... "...until the going down of the sun...."

    22:3...... "...if the sun be risen upon him...."

    22:26.... "...the sun goeth down...."


    Leviticus 22:7...... "...And when the sun is down...."


    Numbers 2:3........ "...toward the rising of the sun...."


    Deuteronomy 11:30..... "...the way where the sun goeth down...."

    16:6....... "...at the going down of the sun...."

    23:11..... "...when the sun is down...."

    24:13..... "...when the sun goeth down...."

    24:15..... "...neither shall the sun go down...."


    Joshua 1:4..... "...the going down of the sun...."

    8:29... "...as soon as the sun was down...."

    10:12.. "...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...."

    10:13.. "...and the sun stood still...."

    10:27.. "...the time of the going down of the sun...."

    12:1.... "...toward the rising of the sun...."


    Judges 5:31.... "...as the sun when he goeth down...."

    8:13.... "...before the sun was up...."

    9:33.... "...as soon as the sun is up...."

    14:18.... "...before the sun went down...."

    19:14.... "...and the sun went down...."


    II Samuel 2:24.... "...the sun went down...."

    3:35.... "...till the sun be down...."

    23:4..... "...when the sun riseth...."


    I Kings 22:36.... "...the going down of the sun...."


    I Chronicles 16:30.... "...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved...."

    II Chronicles 18:34.... "...time of the sun going down...."


    Job 9:7.... "...commandeth the sun and it riseth not...."

    Job 26:7.... "...He hangeth the earth upon nothing...."


    Psalm 19:4.... "...tabernacle for the sun...."

    19:5 ... "...cometh out to run...."

    19:6.... "...goes forth in a circle from one end of heaven to the other...."

    50:1.... "...from the rising of the sun...."

    93:1.... "...the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved...."

    104:19.. "...the sun knoweth his going down...."

    104:22.. "...the sun ariseth...."

    113:3.... "...from the rising of the sun...."


    Ecclesiastes 1:5.... "...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down

    and hasteth to the place where he arose...."


    Isaiah 13:10.... "...sun shall be darkened in his going...."

    38:8...... "...is gone down on the sundial of Ahaz...."

    38:8...... "...so the sun returned...."

    41:25.... "...from the rising of the sun...."

    45:6...... "...from the rising of the sun...."

    59:19.... "...from the rising of the sun...."

    60:20.... "...the sun shall no more go down...."


    Jeremiah 15:9.... "...her sun is gone down while it was yet day...."


    Daniel 6:14.... "...going down of the sun...."


    Amos 8:9.... "...cause the sun to go down at noon...."


    Jonah 4:8.... "...when the sun did arise...."


    Micah 3:6.... "...and the sun shall go down...."


    Nahum 3:17.... "...when the sun ariseth...."


    Habakkuk 3:11.... "...the sun and moon stood still in their habitation...."


    Malachi 1:11.... "...from the rising of the sun...."


    Matthew 5:45.... "...for He maketh His sun to rise...."

    13:6..... "...and when the sun was up...."


    Mark 1:32.... "...when the sun did set...."

    4:6...... "...when the sun was up...."

    16:2...... "...at the rising of the sun...."


    Luke 4:40.... "...when the sun was setting...."


    Ephesians 4:26.... "...let not the sun go down upon your wrath...."


    James 1:11.... "...for the sun is no sooner risen...."

    Whelp, that about covers it for ya, Kanto Trio. As for scientific evidence, look in my siggy.

  11. #261
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    PokeJustice, first off, I am sorry for my 2 PMs. They weren't much of a decent arguement.

    However, my position still stands: I believe your belief is partially based on irrevelant science. I will look into that website more than I have and learn more about the sceintific arguements for a geocentric universe.

    As for the Biblical verses, I say that yes, from on Earth it does look like the Sun is the only thing moving. However, the Biblical writers never went beyond Earth. Humans have gone into space. From space you get an entirely different perspective of how the planets move. The Earth has been observed to be rotating on an axis. It is not stationary.

  12. #262

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    Are you in disagreement with God's Word? The Modified Tychonian Model actually stands up to all scrutiny faced by the Copernican Model that you were likely taught in school. The Earth is hung upon an axis? Job 26:7--He hangeth the Earth upon nothing. It is not my place to get into a scientific argument, I'll leave that to experts, I just appeal to your presumed Christianity.

    I never saw any PMs, sorry that I didn't respond.

  13. #263
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    PokeJustice, most these passages all refer to the sun rising or setting, terms we still use today. The writers were probably just writing down how these events appeared to them.

    BTW, I was able to find an article on a Christian website that refutes arguments for geocentrism. I've only skimmed through the article but I will take a closer look at it when I have time (It is a bit long).

    Link: http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/1814

    Edit: Sorry about the multiple posts. The server was lagging so I did not realize I was posting multiple times.
    Last edited by Kanto Trio; 8th January 2009 at 3:29 AM.
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  14. #264
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    PokeJustice, just because those verses said the Sun was "going down" or "arise" doesn't necessarily means the Sun is the one that moves. People have different ways of expressing things, and you must remember the Bible was written by PEOPLE, not God. It is the word of God, but not every single little exact thing in there means its exact saying.

    People are imperfect and we need to try and be the best we can be and live up to be the servants that the Lord has called us to be and to read the Bible and try and be good. But the Bible is not saying that the Sun moves and the Earth doesn't, it's just expressing it in different ways.


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    Quote Originally Posted by starliteevee View Post
    People are imperfect and we need to try and be the best we can be and live up to be the servants that the Lord has called us to be and to read the Bible and try and be good.
    That's true, but more importantly is that people receive Jesus as their savior.

    Without that everything else is meaningless.


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    I agree with the last two posts. The Bible should be used as a reference for spiritual guidance or things of that sort, not used for scientific knowledge.

  17. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by starliteevee View Post
    PokeJustice, just because those verses said the Sun was "going down" or "arise" doesn't necessarily means the Sun is the one that moves. People have different ways of expressing things, and you must remember the Bible was written by PEOPLE, not God. It is the word of God, but not every single little exact thing in there means its exact saying.

    People are imperfect and we need to try and be the best we can be and live up to be the servants that the Lord has called us to be and to read the Bible and try and be good. But the Bible is not saying that the Sun moves and the Earth doesn't, it's just expressing it in different ways.
    There is one key problem with a heliocentric Bible, one that neither Kanto Trio's article and you fail to address.

    Have you forgotton that there was no sun for the Earth to go around until the fourth day?

    That is no word of a writer, but the Creation by God Himself.

    And, if the almost 60 passages that refer to sunrise and set are wrong, then couldn't the Lord have just said "appeareth to rise" or "looketh as if to set?"

  18. #268
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    Seriously, the Bible gives us more important things to think about. God gave us brains to think for ourselves. And curiosity to explore and discover things about this world He left in our care. Don't discount science just because some of it is sketchy.

    The earth revolves around the sun. Also, the world is round, just in case you were doubting that too.

    Human observation may be no replacement for divine knowledge, but we're to do the best we can with what God has given us.
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  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeJustice View Post
    There is one key problem with a heliocentric Bible, one that neither Kanto Trio's article and you fail to address.

    Have you forgotton that there was no sun for the Earth to go around until the fourth day?
    I was taught in Religion class (at a Catholic school) that the Sun was not said to be created until the fourth day because the Bible was responding to the Ancient Egyptians and other pagans that worshipped the sun. By not creating the Sun first, God is saying the Sun is not as important as the pagans thought and that He creates and sustains life instead of the Sun.

    Here's something that backs up my arguement:

    According to Genesis 1, the sun was not created until Day 4. How could there be day and night (ordinary days) without the sun for the first three days?

    Answer
    1. Again, it is important for us to let the language of God’s Word speak to us. If we come to Genesis 1 without any outside influences, as has been shown, each of the six days of creation appears with the Hebrew word yom qualified by a number and the phrase “evening and morning.” The first three days are written the same way as the next three. So if we let the language speak to us, all six days were ordinary earth days.

    2. The sun is not needed for day and night. What is needed is light and a rotating earth. On the first day of creation, God made light ( Genesis 1:3 ). The phrase “evening and morning” certainly implies a rotating earth. Thus, if we have light from one direction, and a spinning earth, there can be day and night.



    Where did the light come from? We are not told, but Genesis 1:3 certainly indicates it was a created light to provide day and night until God made the sun on Day 4 to rule the day. Revelation 21:23 tells us that one day the sun will not be needed because the glory of God will light the heavenly city.

    Perhaps one reason God did it this way was to illustrate that the sun did not have the priority in the creation that people have tended to give it. The sun did not give birth to the earth as evolutionary theories postulate; the sun was God’s created tool to rule the day that God had made ( Genesis 1:16 ).

    Down through the ages, people such as the Egyptians have worshiped the sun. God warned the Israelites, in Deuteronomy 4:19 , not to worship the sun as the pagan cultures around them did. They were commanded to worship the God who made the sun—not the sun that was made by God.

    Evolutionary theories (the “big bang” hypothesis, for instance) state that the sun came before the earth and that the sun’s energy on the earth eventually gave rise to life. Just as in pagan beliefs, the sun is, in a sense, given credit for the wonder of creation.
    http://www.opposingviews.com/argumen...sun-s-creation

    Also, the Bible does not outright say the sun goes around the Earth. It doesn't explain exactly why the sun, the moon, and the planets appear to move across the sky. It pretty much doesn't say that the Earth goes around the sun, either! How is the Bible either heliocentric or geocentric if it doesn't even argue for either side?

    I found this, too:
    Does the Sun orbit the Earth as well as the Earth orbiting the Sun?
    Is it true that Sun also revolves around the Earth? If yes, apart from convenience, is there another reason why we use the Solar-centered coordinate system ?

    Technically, what is going on is that the Earth, Sun and all the planets are orbiting around the center of mass of the solar system. This is actually how planets orbiting other stars are often detected, by searching for the motion of the stars they orbit that is caused by the fact that the star is orbiting the center of mass of the system, causing it to wobble on the sky.

    The center of mass of our solar system very close to the Sun itself, but not exactly at the Sun's center (it is actually a little bit outside the radius of the Sun). However, since almost all of the mass within the solar system is contained in the Sun, its motion is only a slight wobble in comparison to the motion of the planets. Therefore, assuming that the Sun is stationary and the planets revolve around its center is a good enough approximation for most purposes.
    http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=461

  20. #270

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    Nyami, thank you for that fascinating article. Interesting correlation. But I'm afraid you didn't answer my question, how can the Earth orbit the Sun when the sun didn't exist until the 4th day? This and many entries in Psalms are why I will keep my geocentric stance.

    Shadow-saur, you apparently don't understand that while geocentricism has been disproven, geocentricity is still a perfectly valid scientific theory. I really don't appreciate your sarcasm. I'll end with a quote:

    "It's easier to believe a lie you've heard a thousand times before, than the truth if you've only heard it once."

    This is a new concept, but just because you didn't hear it in school doesn't make it incorrect. Try researching geocentricity before you dis it.

  21. #271
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    You are missing what I am trying to get across. I put that second article in to argue that scientists today have observed and know how the solar system operates. They see it happen. They see that the planets and the sun revolve around a point in the universe and that the sun is almost exactly on that point, so basically everything else revolves around the sun. How can you disregard that? Very many people believe some parts of the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. Genesis and Creation are some of those parts.

    Example: If it were meant to be taken completely literally, Young Earth Creationists would be correct and the Earth would only be around 4,000-5,000years old. However, we know thats not true because scientists have radio carbon dating and that tells us the Earth millions of years old.

    From Source (http://tomorrowstrust.ca/?m=200705&paged=2):
    The modern world is very different from that of Biblical times. Just as the worldviews of people of Old and New Testament times affected their understanding of God and the Bible, so does ours.
    Morwood and Eaton said the new cosmology does not challenge or deny our faith in God or Jesus. It does call us to a different understanding. Over the centuries Catholic understanding, but not our faith, has changed as our knowledge has changed. That is what theology is – fides quarens intellectu or faith seeking understanding
    This more accurately points out what I'm trying to say: Interpretations of the Bible and understanding of what God is trying to tell evolves as we learn more about the world and the universe with science. Look at how much the solar system was thought to look changed between the times of the OT and the NT, according to that website! I'm sorry it is not a non-denominational Christian website, but the message is basically the same regardless.

    The main point of Creation Story is to tell us the religious truth that God created the Earth and the universe. Scientific 'truths' are secondary.
    Last edited by Nyami; 8th January 2009 at 9:56 PM.

  22. #272

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    "And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

    I opened with that portion of Revelation 22 because you insist upon completely ignoring scientifically inconvenient Bible verses. The entire Bible is inerrant and infallible and not a word of it is false. Belief in the above is the second most important part of being a Christian, second only to Salvation itself. You are letting atheists win if you just wuss out of combatting them on the issues. The Bible is factual and truthful when it says that the Sun "goeth forth from one end of Heaven to the other" and when it says that the entire Universe was made in only 6 days. Just because atheistic science says you are wrong doesn't mean you have to bow under pressure of "scientific evidence." Don't forget that the Bible warns of science "falsely so-called." It is impossible to prove that either universal model is correct, if it ever were, all the Laws of Physics would be violated. Ernst Mach proved it so. The only difference is that the Bible clearly supports one, while is incompatible with the other. Shouldn't that be the deciding factor for a Christian like yourself?

  23. #273

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    Oh, and I know that the planets orbit the sun, silly.

    But the Sun, in turn, orbits Earth (known as the Tychonian Model), and no matter how stupid you think I am, you cannot refute that, nor can I refute your Copernican model, but I have presented Biblical evidence against it.

  24. #274
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    Job 26:7--He hangeth the Earth upon nothing.

    Outer space is a huge void; endless nothing-ness. The Earth is in space, thus it is suspended on nothing. When you look at like this compared to what other religions said/say, this makes perfect sense. In Hinduism, the Earth rests on the back of giant black elephants. In Greek mythology, the Earth is held up by Atlas.

    Psalms 19:4-6:

    A person is looking up into the heavens and watches the sun rise and travel the same course across the sky from one end of the heavens to the other end of the heavens. Nothing can hide from the heat of the sun -- the Earth is hit with the heat of the sun all day.


    The sun isn't revolving around the Earth. The person is only seeing the sun move across the sky. He notices the sun stays in one place hence the mention of the tabernacle where a thing lives. Its a place where something dwells. He also notices it always stays on the same path in the sky every day.

    I am not arguing about how I think the the Bible is wrong. I am arguing about understanding what God is saying lies in interpretation and if you take the Bible literally when its not meant to, you could misinterpret it.

  25. #275

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    The Bible is to be taken literally! The Bible is complete truth! Joshua 10:12 describes how the Sun had to be instructed to stand still! God would not allow falsehoods to be established as truth in His Book! Any Christian who believes in a heliocentric Bible has to do so with significant evidence to the contrary. Look up Airey's Failure if you want scientific evidence for geocentricity. Man, Physicists don't criticize geocentricity as much as you attempt to. It is entirely possible. Problems with Heliocentricity
    Last edited by PokeJustice; 9th January 2009 at 1:07 AM.

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