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Thread: SPPF Christian Alliance

  1. #2151
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    Wait, what's the challenge? Knowing of God's Omnipotence and how certain things about the universe, the world, and our lives that are predestined, is the question whether or not God makes decisions for us??

  2. #2152
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    My semester officially ended today so I'll have time to read up on the walls of texts that have been posted since the last I posted (I need to update the memberlist as well...).

    Anyways, this is prolly something worth discussing as a group (we can always end it abruptly if things get out of hand). Obviously, everyone should probably read up on the passages referenced before they post (so that they don't make a weightless argument). I'll get to reading/responding tomorrow, as it is getting late here.
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  3. #2153
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    Sorry I haven't posted in a while. I had finals this week, but I'm finished now!

    So, I have a praise. I survived my freshman year at Tech. >_< It was a hard one, but I made it through and I can now look forward to my sophomore year.

  4. #2154
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    Alrighty. I'll definitely take all this weekend to soak in what you put up and I can bring it up in my small group, but I got somethin' to say first. I had one of those "DUH!" moments after only reading Hebrews 11. While I can't quite understand all of what you're saying yet, Salavior (you're just too smart for me >,<), I do remember a lesson our small group leader taught us on this sort of thing. It went a little something like this;

    Bascially, every human on earth is condemend because of the sin we cannot avoid. But, it is with God's grace that we can be saved. There is nothing we can do in our own power that will save us. In fact, we would not exist without God in the first place. Besides the point, no amount of what we do will bring us closer or farther from God. It's His grace that trancends absolutely everything. We are powerless. The same idea goes with faith (as I believe you are making clear Salavior). It's not that once we believe in Him, He's suddenly there. He was always there, whether we thought so or not. And it's His power we recieve when we believe, not our own. I still choose to believe God has not pressed His will upon us. That would be akin to a father forcing his child to say, "I love you." But, I belive God wills us to love Him by our own chioce.

    I love epiphany moments XD If ya'll could pray for me, I kinda got injured at our frisbee game yesterday. It's cool because we still haven't lost yet, but this guy chucked the frisbee really hard and my chest happened to be in the way ^_^' I'm fine, but kinda really sore. Anyway, lovin' this topic so far. I'm gonna be busy this weekend. Everybody, treat your mothers well this weekend!!!!

  5. #2155
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    You guys definitely know a lot about the bible. I'm very curious about this idea of Predestination (is that the word?) and I'm definitely going to check out those scriptures.
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  6. #2156
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    Okay...I need to ask you all something, and it might be a bit on the controversial side, and you all could get mad at me, but it's something I've been thinking about.


    Will you absoluetly, positively go to Hell for having pre-marital sex?

    The reason I ask is because I am a 22 year old woman who is still a virgin and had decided a long time ago to remain celibate until marrige, as God commands.

    But my boyfriend....I think he might be "the one." I've never felt this way about another person before (and I've had a lot of boyfriends), and I've never been so attracted to anyone before. I'd like to sleep with him. Not right away, of course, but once it starts to look like we are going to get married (engaged).

    I've never met anyone that I like near as much as him, I feel so comfortable with him, like I could "let the shields down" and let him see the weak, scared person inside. I had a crush on him for over a year before I decided to talk to him, and was so elaited when he resonded to me. We talk so much, and I'm happy about it. Normally, when a boyfriend talks to me a bunch, I get annoyed and wish he'd leave me alone, but it's not like that with Naoyuki. As stupid as it sounds....I think I love him.


    Back to the question, do you think that someone would go to Hell for having sex with someone before they are married, even if they love the person, or are even engaged?
    I will be on here very, very rarely. The account is not dead, per se, but I will not be on often. This has become a den of hatred, hostility, and anger. It is not the SPPF it was when I joined, and I really dislike coming here. To those of you who were nice to me and were my friend, thank you. Goodbye.
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  7. #2157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmeh View Post
    Will you absoluetly, positively go to Hell for having pre-marital sex?
    Here's my answer: You won't go tell Hell for having pre-marital sex. That does NOT mean it is acceptable, though!

    Let me take a page from gotquestions.org's article on this issue. 1 Corinthians 7:2 says, "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." The idea that having a spouse is a way to reduce the temptation of sexual immorality indicates that sex before marriage is, indeed sexual immorality. Also, 1 Corinthians 7:9 says, "but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

    Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 6:18 says, "Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body." If there is a question of whether something is sexual immorality or not, run! The safest course of action is to not do what is in question, remove yourself from a situation where you might sin, and (if you'll permit me to say it like this) pray like crazy!

    Now on to the Hell issue.

    For Christians, no sin we can do can send us to Hell. John 10:28 says, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Sin in the life of a believer will not send them to Hell, but it will break their fellowship with God. 1 John 1:6-7 says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." When we sin, we must confess our sin to have our fellowship with God restored. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Now let me comment on a few other things you said. (Ok, it's just one thing...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmeh View Post
    The reason I ask is because I am a 22 year old woman who is still a virgin and had decided a long time ago to remain celibate until marrige, as God commands.
    Your decision to not have sex before marriage is a good and wise decision. I advise that you stick with it. It's quite possible that having sex before marriage would lead to problems.
    But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
    Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
    See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. (Ephesians 5:13-15)



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  8. #2158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySandshrew View Post
    Here's my answer: You won't go tell Hell for having pre-marital sex. That does NOT mean it is acceptable, though!

    Let me take a page from gotquestions.org's article on this issue. 1 Corinthians 7:2 says, "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." The idea that having a spouse is a way to reduce the temptation of sexual immorality indicates that sex before marriage is, indeed sexual immorality. Also, 1 Corinthians 7:9 says, "but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

    Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 6:18 says, "Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body." If there is a question of whether something is sexual immorality or not, run! The safest course of action is to not do what is in question, remove yourself from a situation where you might sin, and (if you'll permit me to say it like this) pray like crazy!

    Now on to the Hell issue.

    For Christians, no sin we can do can send us to Hell. John 10:28 says, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Sin in the life of a believer will not send them to Hell, but it will break their fellowship with God. 1 John 1:6-7 says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." When we sin, we must confess our sin to have our fellowship with God restored. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Now let me comment on a few other things you said. (Ok, it's just one thing...)


    Your decision to not have sex before marriage is a good and wise decision. I advise that you stick with it. It's quite possible that having sex before marriage would lead to problems.

    Indeed, I will continue my abstinence. Thank you friend.
    I will be on here very, very rarely. The account is not dead, per se, but I will not be on often. This has become a den of hatred, hostility, and anger. It is not the SPPF it was when I joined, and I really dislike coming here. To those of you who were nice to me and were my friend, thank you. Goodbye.
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  9. #2159
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    Well, so far I've read Romans 8-9 and Ephesians 1-2 and I'm starting to understand predestination. However, I still have some questions and I'm still very young in my understanding in wisdom, so bear with me here. First, if God already chooses who is going to be saved in go to Heaven, does that mean that he chooses who goes to Hell? Also, if God chooses whether or not a person will be saved, doesn't that eliminate the free will that God gave us?
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  10. #2160
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    I just wanted to wish everyone a Happy Mother's Day!

    As for that topic relating to the whole predistination thing, and God's will...Umm, I'll have to come back to that...there's more reading I need to do on that.

  11. #2161
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    News on my earlier post. My boyfriend told me today that he'd like for me to remain pure for when we're married.



    For. When. We're. Married.

    This is the third time he's talked about us being married. He's not proposed formally yet, but when he does, I'm saying yes.

    (Sorry if this was unnessicary)
    I will be on here very, very rarely. The account is not dead, per se, but I will not be on often. This has become a den of hatred, hostility, and anger. It is not the SPPF it was when I joined, and I really dislike coming here. To those of you who were nice to me and were my friend, thank you. Goodbye.
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  12. #2162

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    WARNING: PLEASE READ THIS AND POSSIBLY THE SURROUNDING POSTS FIRST!!! PLEASE DO NOT READ THE STUFF IN THE SPOILER OF THIS POST WITHOUT READING AND STUDYING THE SCRIPTURES/ARTICLES IN THAT POST!!!

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    Last edited by Salavoir55; 13th August 2011 at 7:04 AM. Reason: **fixed links**

  13. #2163
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    Thank you very much for your response. I definitely grasp predestination and foreordinance better now. Another quick questions though. If heaven is so perfect and since God is there in his glory, how could satan sin?
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  14. #2164

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    The Westminster Confession again:

    "After God had made all other creatures, he created man, male and female, with reasonable and immortal souls, endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness after his own image, having the law of God written in their hearts, and power to fulfill it; and yet under a possibility of transgressing, being left to the liberty of their own will, which was subject unto change."

    "Man, in his state of innocence, had freedom and power to will and to do that which is good and well-pleasing to God; but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it."
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 13th August 2011 at 7:05 AM.

  15. #2165
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    Oh, ok. Thanks for answering honestly man
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  16. #2166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmeh View Post
    News on my earlier post. My boyfriend told me today that he'd like for me to remain pure for when we're married.



    For. When. We're. Married.

    This is the third time he's talked about us being married. He's not proposed formally yet, but when he does, I'm saying yes.

    (Sorry if this was unnessicary)
    Totally not! Aw...That's so sweet...Good luck to the both of you!

  17. #2167
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    I noticed this club, and was all ready to join, but I then came across the above "Predestination" argument: if I have to agree to that doctrine in its entirety, I will not be joining.
    Yes, I agree that God knows the future, that He ultimately knows who will choose Him and who will not; but I heartily disagree with this doctrine(supposition) of a man--Calvin and such--supposedly taken from the Bible. Does it not imply that God has 'foreordained' eternal damnation for some? Doesn't it essentially mean that the most widely known Bible verse, John 3:16, is wrong, that Jesus didn't die for the entire world, and only died for a select few? Doesn't it mean that most missionary work is in vain?
    "Whosoever labours to bring the doctrine of predestination into misliking....." --Calvin
    Basicly he's threatening those who disagree with him and his theory, saying those who disagree are not on God's side. Too, those who believe in 'predestination' tend to have a ''holier than thou'' attitude--something I have witnessed first hand--since they believe that they have been 'specially chosen' by God and others have not.

    I'm out of time, else I'd post more concerning this. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Dark Exxod; 12th May 2011 at 2:02 AM.
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  18. #2168
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    Pshawww I join :P hope I get accepted :P

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  19. #2169
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    YAY!!! By the way Calvinism isn't a denomination its a style of teaching... I didn't read the above posts because it doesn't concern me (sorry but it doesn't) so I thought I would bring this up

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  20. #2170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    I noticed this club, and was all ready to join, but I then came across the above "Predestination" argument: if I have to agree to that doctrine in its entirety, I will not be joining.
    Yes, I agree that God knows the future, that He ultimately knows who will choose Him and who will not; but I heartily disagree with this doctrine(supposition) of a man--Calvin and such--supposedly taken from the Bible. Does it not imply that God has 'foreordained' eternal damnation for some? Doesn't it essentially mean that the most widely known Bible verse, John 3:16, is wrong, that Jesus didn't die for the entire world, and only died for a select few? Doesn't it mean that most missionary work is in vain?
    "Whosoever labours to bring the doctrine of predestination into misliking....." --Calvin
    Basicly he's threatening those who disagree with him and his theory, saying those who disagree are not on God's side. Too, those who believe in 'predestination' tend to have a ''holier than thou'' attitude--something I have witnessed first hand--since they believe that they have been 'specially chosen' by God and others have not.

    I'm out of time, else I'd post more concerning this. Thanks for reading.
    I can only respond to the first few sentences with, not at all. I myself don't believe in predestination, yet I've been a member of this club for years.

    Just to make it clear, from what I've seen of this club for years, you don't need to conform to any certain piece of doctrine to be a member here. This club is made of a mixture of Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, etc. and, surely, we have many differing views on doctrine. No one is going to turn you away from this club as long as you are a Christian.

    With that, I'd like to welcome all of the new members! IDK what the topic is...But, welcome!

  21. #2171
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    My understanding of the predistination is still shaky, but my current view I have on it is taken from Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose. For whom he did forknow, he also did predistinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, the he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

    What that tells me, is that God didn't predistine people for eternal salvation or destruction...I think what that passage says is that God foreknew, and predistined that people would "conform to the image of his son" by being added to the kingdom (the church).

    By the way Calvinism isn't a denomination its a style of teaching... I didn't read the above posts because it doesn't concern me (sorry but it doesn't) so I thought I would bring this up
    Well, I think I'd have to respectfully disagree...To me, it seems that Calvinism shares ties with Pelagianism and Arminianism, both of which being a form of false doctrine which were mentioned in some of the articles that Salavoir provided.

    With Pelagianism, that teaching seems to deny that the fall of Adam, his sin isn't affecting mankind in any way today.

    But Gensis 3:17-19 because he "hearkened unto the voice of thy wife," and he ate from the tree that God commanded them not to, God cursed the ground, and told them that by the sweat of their brows, will be how they eat their bread.

    Armianism doesn't go to that extreme, but claims that "men aren't completely dead in sin".

    But Colossians 2:13 states that "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins."

    You can't be partially dead or alive in sin or in Christ. You're either living in sin (dead to Christ), or alive in Christ (dead to sin).

    This is something that both Arminianism and Pelagianism share. Also taken from the article Salavoir found, "In both views, though, men work for their salvation by coming, of their own accord, to Christ, on their own strength, and they “decide” to follow Jesus. Grace is good, and grace is helpful, but it is man that actually makes the difference."

    That bit alone conflicts with what is spoken of in Epesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

    Man cannot obtain salvation by his own works simply. It wouldn't matter how many good deeds someone does, because we can't obtain salvation without God's grace. Even with our decision to dedicate our lives to Christ, it is ultimately God's grace for us that works with our faith in him that gives us hope in obtaining eternal life.

    So I think that just shows that we need to be careful about people spreading false doctrine about God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit or anything related to the scriptures because there's an abundance of people who don't have a good understanding of the scripture, or some people just try to make their own interpretations or teachings.
    Last edited by Champion Jared 14; 12th May 2011 at 10:12 PM.

  22. #2172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    I noticed this club, and was all ready to join, but I then came across the above "Predestination" argument: if I have to agree to that doctrine in its entirety, I will not be joining.

    Well, basically people from any denomination that falls under the category of Christian can join-- Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Puritan, Baptist, etc. You don't have to agreer to the doctrine to join this club. The basic requirements to join are to say that you're a Christian and would like to join.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    Yes, I agree that God knows the future, that He ultimately knows who will choose Him and who will not; but I heartily disagree with this doctrine(supposition) of a man--Calvin and such--supposedly taken from the Bible.
    Well, let me bring forward some Bible verses. Maybe they'll sound like pre-destination, maybe they won't.

    Romans 8:29-30 says, "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

    Ephesians 1:5,11 say, "having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will...In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will."

    John 6:44 says, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."


    Now, these sound like predestination to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    Does it not imply that God has 'foreordained' eternal damnation for some?
    In short, yes. I'll explain more in a moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    Doesn't it essentially mean that the most widely known Bible verse, John 3:16, is wrong, that Jesus didn't die for the entire world, and only died for a select few? Doesn't it mean that most missionary work is in vain?
    I would say no to both your questions. Why? 1) 1 Timothy 4:10 "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." [emphasis added]

    Also, 1 Timothy 2:3-4 says, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." [emphasis added]

    2) Missionary work is not in vain because Jesus told the disciples to go and preach the gospel. The same person who gave Paul the divine revelation about predestination gave the disciples the command to go and preach the gospel. We do not know who will believe and who won't. Therefore, we preach to all who will listen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Exxod View Post
    Too, those who believe in 'predestination' tend to have a ''holier than thou'' attitude--something I have witnessed first hand--since they believe that they have been 'specially chosen' by God and others have not.
    While that may be the case with the people you've met, that doesn't mean that the doctrine is wrong. Also, aren't those that are saved specially chosen by God?


    I believe in a mix of predestination and free will. Does God predestine who will believe and who won't? Yes. Do we still have free will to choose to believe or not? Yes. How do the two logically fit together? I would say that God fore ordains that God pre-destines that certain people will choose to believe in Him.

    For further reading, you can look at these articles here.


    I hope this answers your question. If you would like to join, feel free. If you have any questions, feel free to ask us!
    Last edited by ShinySandshrew; 13th May 2011 at 2:36 AM.
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    Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
    See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. (Ephesians 5:13-15)



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  23. #2173
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    Just becus i feel l8 too the pre marital sex ima start it up again
    I dont see anything wrong with sex befire marriage
    But i do see that something wrong if it is like a one night stand
    Sex sgould be saved for someone you love, my parents for eg just dont have the money to get married, but they love each other very much and would never leave each other
    Predestiination is a tricky topic, i beleive that God decides whether we will or not, but thats not to say we cant change that desicion, by being good or unfortunately bad, call it an appeal for lack of better word
    Satans most comon origion beleif is that he was the angel of light lucifer, and became cocky on his own power, being almost equal to god
    And with that ill end
    Except that i hope he asks you soon nemmeh, even hearing of love warms my heart
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  24. #2174
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    Pre-Destination can be disproved.

    "And God so loved the world that he gave us his only begotten son, our Lord, that whosever may believe in him shall have everlasting life." John 15 I believe.

    That proves that as long as you commit your life to God you will be saved. Everyone can be saved. Not just certain people. Even the vilest offenders who truly believe, that moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

    BTW I'm non-denominational

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  25. #2175

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    ^That doesn't disprove predestination because all Calvinists (including John Calvin) affirm that. That is, we gladly and freely affirm that anyone who believes on Christ alone, turning away from their sin, will be saved. And we just as gladly and freely affirm that Christ died for all kinds of sinners, even the vilest. I also must say that John 3:16 isn't teaching what most people think it is teaching.
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 13th August 2011 at 7:07 AM. Reason: typo

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