~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

[BGMaxie]

https://twitter.com/karubiimunomono

8RC84HYC is the password for Return

And that is for what?

[G50]

And that is for what?

I presume a TM. the Japanese matches the move Return.

[BCVM22]

No it is true.

Sure isn't.

I'm not saying the starters are better than Genesect

That's exactly what you're saying, though - that not all time-specific giveaways are created equal.

but some people for example don't like to play with Legendaries on the main story, or train Legendaries that are often banned like Genesect is for competitive play, unlike a starter that can be used in both gameplays.

What does or doesn't work in competitive play is not a contributing factor to anything.

Just tell me why somebody that bought the game EARLIER should be cut off from benefits that are launched LATER?

Because the use of incentives to entice people to buy a product they might but haven't yet is not a new practice and perhaps might even have been seen coming if someone really wanted to think about it? That's really all the reason you need.

t does not have to exclude older buyers does it?

Um. By definition it does, yes. Otherwise there's no exclusivity to the incentive, and then what's the point?

And if they are one-use only, then that sucks even more.....

Yeah, it really sucks that people can't just steal an exclusive incentive for which they don't qualify.

This is people complaining that they're being penalized for buying a game at launch, which isn't the case at all. You're not being denied anything essential. It's as simple as all of that.

[BGMaxie]

Sure isn't.

That's exactly what you're saying, though - that not all time-specific giveaways are created equal.

What does or doesn't work in competitive play is not a contributing factor to anything.

Because the use of incentives to entice people to buy a product they might but haven't yet is not a new practice and perhaps might even have been seen coming if someone really wanted to think about it? That's really all the reason you need.

Um. By definition it does, yes. Otherwise there's no exclusivity to the incentive, and then what's the point?

Yeah, it really sucks that people can't just steal an exclusive incentive for which they don't qualify.

This is people complaining that they're being penalized for buying a game at launch, which isn't the case at all. You're not being denied anything essential. It's as simple as all of that.

1) Yes it is true.
2) Tell me where did I say that? Because I have not. If anything you were the first one to throw Genesect into the pool.
3) I'm saying that because of that, people give it a different value of use, which by itself works in the incentive mindset, so yes it IS one factor.
4) Wrong, in the past games DLCs were available basically for both parties. Newly released stuff does NOT have to exclude older buyers as there is no harm in including them and taking the job to actually excluding them is senseless and contributes no benefit either.
5) That does not give any answer at all. I'm not questioning the use of incentives like these, what I put into question is the senseless exclusion towards older buyers in regard to this benefit.
6) By "defnition"? I wonder what definition is that. If we were to talk about pre-order benefits it would make sense, but new-player benefit only is like "what"!? And why there HAS to be exclusivity to the incentive when the DLC system is in fact made to be global and accessible? IF we go at that we're breaking the "definition" of DLC on a massively connected system. The exclusion does not have any solid basis at all.
7) They are not being given anything essential either, but still something that people like, which is the idea behind this. And they bought the game before all of this, they already contributed to Nintendo, so yes they DO "qualify" for owning the game, any other conditions are rubbish, as simple as that.

[BCVM22]

1) Yes it is true.

Still no. I've given you a number of reasons why it isn't - your counterarguments essentially amount to "it's unfair because I bought at launch and now I don't get anything special, even though I did, it was just something different than this."

2) Tell me where did I say that? Because I have not. If anything you were the first one to throw Genesect into the pool.

That you're arguing it is saying that. That you're arguing this non-case indicates an explicit endorsement of one incentive having a greater value than the other.

I'm saying that because of that, people give it a different value of use, which by itself works in the incentive mindset, so yes it IS one factor.

No, what is or isn't viable competitively isn't a factor in anything. They aren't releasing Dream World starters wondering "but wait, what will this do to people who do or don't train certain critters for competitive play?"

4) Wrong, in the past games DLCs were available basically for both parties.

Every event ever, both in-store and Wi-Fi, has been finite. The span is anywhere from a single day for in-life events in the the distant past to what usually amounts to a week to a few months in the modern era, at any rate certainly not being available to everyone, as if you didn't have the game at that time, you couldn't obtain the event. Shall we complain that people who couldn't/don't/didn't obtain an event Pokémon within those respective time constraints for whatever reason were "unfairly treated" as well?

Newly released stuff does NOT have to exclude older buyers as there is no harm in including them and taking the job to actually excluding them is senseless and contributes no benefit either.

You're complaining about this chiefly because it excludes you. Anyone could have told you that there was at least a chance that something like this would come up, as they did the same thing with Black and White. What stopped you from waiting on that basis if you were that worried? Or, by the same token, what stops you from buying another copy of the game now (or whenever this goes into effect) to obtain the exclusive material? Neither option is ideal, no - either you intentionally waited for a game you wanted or you have to spend the money for a second copy, but it's certainly not as if you're being shut out by any means.

5) That does not give any answer at all. I'm not questioning the use of incentives like these, what I put into question is the senseless exclusion towards older buyers in regard to this benefit.
6) By "defnition"? I wonder what definition is that. If we were to talk about pre-order benefits it would make sense, but new-player benefit only is like "what"!? And why there HAS to be exclusivity to the incentive when the DLC system is in fact made to be global and accessible? IF we go at that we're breaking the "definition" of DLC on a massively connected system. The exclusion does not have any solid basis at all.
7) They are not being given anything essential either, but still something that people like, which is the idea behind this. And they bought the game before all of this, they already contributed to Nintendo, so yes they DO "qualify" for owning the game, any other conditions are rubbish, as simple as that.

This all boils down to something very simple: once they have your money, you are no longer a concern. You could return the game, you could sell it to a private or public entity, you could break it, you could throw it out; none of that matters because they have your money and will not be giving it back. This is called business. Now that they have your money, their goal becomes getting the money of the guy next to you, who hasn't bought their product yet. Guy next to you is still on the fence? Here's some incentive for him. You want that incentive too? Too bad. We got your money already. Not concerned about it.

If this really infuriates you as you claim it does, you might as well get ready to take on the concept of "business" as a whole. What about when a device like an iPhone is discounted after its successor goes on sale. Do you have a right to complain that people who buy one now bought theirs for less money than you paid for yours? What about cars? Do you have a right to complain that someone buying a 2012 model now is paying less than someone who bought the same vehicle a year ago? Granted, those are discounts and not strictly extra material, but the point remains just the case.

This is the cold, hard reality of the matter, as business so often is. Nintendo is not your friend. As a consumer, they owe you nothing besides an opportunity to purchase their product at market value, which they've given you unequivocally and which you took just the same. I don't know why this shocks and angers people as it does, but it's the truth.

Again, there's no argument here. You're complaining that you're being treated unfairly. You aren't. You were afforded the opportunity to purchase the product at launch and in taking that opportunity at launch, you divested yourself of any recourse should extra incentive to purchase that same product be added down the line.

[BGMaxie]

Again, pre-order and launch incentives are normal. Post-launch exclusivities ONLY to new buyers, is senseless. And yes I know how business works, and hence why actually bothering to work on this around sounds absolutely dumb. When you want to concentrate on a product you think on your market, and yes that means aiming at them in this case new buyers with this incentive, but how must that incentive EXCLUDE the old buyers? Also what would be the point to launch easy to obtain DLCs for all people if they did not care to about old buyers? It is all to engage people, keep them entertained and have them as loyal as always. Considering that, the idea of bothering to not include old buyers goes against all of that and is dumb, and there is no solid "business" reason also known as profits that are made magically for excluding old buyers, which even reinforces my point that this is rubbish, and I have yet to see an argument that can give it a good sense.

[BCVM22]

Post-launch exclusivities ONLY to new buyers, is senseless.

...

but how must that incentive EXCLUDE the old buyers?

You're not being excluded at all. You [would have had to] / [have to] jump through a hoop or two, but the material is just as available to you as it is anyone else.

Also what would be the point to launch easy to obtain DLCs for all people if they did not care to about old buyers?

And when that's the case, anyone who doesn't yet have the game and won't by the time the event ends is missing their chance. None of the events are ever available to anyone and everyone who will ever own the game.

and there is no solid "business" reason also known as profits that are made magically for excluding old buyers

Because you gave them your money already. As such, you have two options - do nothing, which doesn't harm them at all, or buy another copy, which gives them more money. It's still as simple as that.

which even reinforces my point that this is rubbish

and I have yet to see an argument that can give it a good sense.

Which all still amounts to "this isn't benefitting me personally and therefore it's a problem".

[AmbipomMaster]

^Besides, If you got your B2/W2 from November 7 to December 5, you didn't get Genesect OR the Sinnoh starters.
Just count your lucky stars.
Plus, if its a code that unlocks these, chances are you'll find them on the Internet.

[[ACE] Zero]

^Besides, If you got your B2/W2 from November 7 to December 5, you didn't get Genesect OR the Sinnoh starters.
Just count your lucky stars.
Plus, if its a code that unlocks these, chances are you'll find them on the Internet.

Even if you do find thrm they are usually 1 time use codes, so they are of no use

[BGMaxie]

You're not being excluded at all. You [would have had to] / [have to] jump through a hoop or two, but the material is just as available to you as it is anyone else.

And when that's the case, anyone who doesn't yet have the game and won't by the time the event ends is missing their chance. None of the events are ever available to anyone and everyone who will ever own the game.

Because you gave them your money already. As such, you have two options - do nothing, which doesn't harm them at all, or buy another copy, which gives them more money. It's still as simple as that.

Which all still amounts to "this isn't benefitting me personally and therefore it's a problem".

So what's wrong with that? I believe I'm not the only one who would like those starters right? Besides and what's even more absurd is that they have to be bought in Wal-mart for the whole thing to work, which causes even more exclusion. I already bought the game, so why should I be excluded from anything that is launched afterwards?

[your boss]

Luckily I didn't buy White 2 yet, I might resort to buying a copy and getting the Sinnoh Starter choice of mine after all.

[G50]

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/2012/12/121210_g01.html

Deoxys event

[[ACE] Zero]

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/2012/12/121210_g01.html

Deoxys event

Something about Life Orb and It's in a Dusk Ball?

[TheFonz]

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/2012/12/121210_g01.html

Deoxys event

Awesome! Most likely the US will get it too...it's annoying when they have LV100 event Pokemon though. Although Join Avenue can fix this after alot of ranking up

[Moonlight_Tails]

Cool, Hope it does come to US. I need a Legit Deoxys. The one I have I hacked from Platinum

[BGMaxie]

Deoxys is boss, I want him '-'

[R_N]

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/2012/12/121210_g01.html

Deoxys event

Finally, been ages since a proper Deoxys event iirc
Looks like this one gets Nasty Plot, which is new to it


Guessing this is to coincide with the new TCG set

edit: It never got Dark Pulse before now?!

[Excitable Boy]

edit: It never got Dark Pulse before now?!

The only Psychic-types to learn Dark Pulse are Elgyem/Beheeyem (via tutor), Gothita (via Egg - no tutor), Sigilyph (via tutor), and Mew (via past TM and tutor, but Mew gets all of those anyway). It's not well distributed amongst Psychic-types, especially pre-Gen V.

[Psychic Politoed]

Finally, been ages since a proper Deoxys event iirc
Looks like this one gets Nasty Plot, which is new to it


Guessing this is to coincide with the new TCG set

edit: It never got Dark Pulse before now?!

I did get three of the ones from Guardian Signs, two of which know Meteor Mash. It's a good thing I had a friend willing to do the co-op mission with me.

However, Deoxys is always a cool Pokemon, so I would like to get this one as well.

Maybe the Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse/Dusk Ball is making a "dark" reference.

[R_N]

The only Psychic-types to learn Dark Pulse are Elgyem/Beheeyem (via tutor), Gothita (via Egg - no tutor), Sigilyph (via tutor), and Mew (via past TM and tutor, but Mew gets all of those anyway). It's not well distributed amongst Psychic-types, especially pre-Gen V.

I guess I always just assumed Psychic types got it since so many got Shadow Ball