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Thread: ~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

  1. #14301
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    I have to agree about ORAS having a lot more information concerning mega evolution. I'm hoping that whatever game releases next. GF kind of has/had no choice, especially with how inconsistent everything is. Hopefully the l'loose ties' as mentioned earlier will also be included, especially when it comes the the legendaries (though I guess they'd have no choice at this point lol) since they were barely glossed over outside Life, Death, and Balance + War. It feels as though at this point, there really isn't much that makes Kalos itself unique at this point.
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  2. #14302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Plus, ORAS just gave Kalos the ultimate free pass for inconsistencies by bringing alternate universes into the equation.
    That would be true if not for the fact that both ORAS and XY take place in the same Megaverse.



  3. #14303
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    Yeah, I think so.

    First Universe:
    Red / Green / Blue / Yellow
    Gold / Silver / Crystal

    Second Universe:
    FireRed / LeafGreen
    HeartGold / SoulSilver
    Ruby / Sapphire / Emerald
    Diamond / Pearl / Platinum
    Black / White
    Black 2 / White 2

    Third Universe:
    OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire
    X / Y
    Last edited by Blaze Master X; 6th September 2015 at 3:38 PM.

  4. #14304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    These kinds of inconsistencies are nothing new, FRLG and HGSS had similar problems with how they handled the discovery of things that were new to GSC like Dark and Steel types and eggs. Plus, ORAS just gave Kalos the ultimate free pass for inconsistencies by bringing alternate universes into the equation.
    Yes, things like the Fairy type can be easily overlooked in XY simply because it's a new game mechanic. The discovery of Eggs and the addition of new types had nothing to do with Team Rocket.

    But Mega Evolution is far from just being a mechanic. It is the focal point of XY's lore and plot. It is connected to the Ultimate Weapon, Kalos War, Infinite Energy, and Project AZOTH. It cannot be simply overlooked.

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  5. #14305
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    Actually, even the Fairy type makes sense if we suppose it only exists in Megaverse. So yeah, alternate universe revelation solved some issues, but the inconsistency between XY and ORAS needs to be fixed.



  6. #14306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    I think a third version would be more appropriate than a sequel.

    Several concepts introduced in XY were now inconsistent with ORAS; Lucario being the first Pokemon to Mega Evolve (when it's actually Rayquaza), for example. Also the whole concept of Mega Evolution being introduced as Kalos' biggest mystery, weren't really as mysterious now thanks to ORAS.

    Also, the events of ORAS happened before XY. ORAS' lore is more canon. If we got a sequel, we keep the inconsistency between Kalos and Hoenn's lore.

    With a third version, being the definitive one, it will overwrite the inconsistent lore originally written in XY. They could rework all the missed opportunities in the original game, and rewrite a better story.
    Actually, when you think about it, Mega Rayquaza and Mega Lucario really don't contradict each other. Mega Rayquaza was the first instance what we might call Mega Evolution, but it was entirely different, as it required no Mega Stone or Key Stone. Mega Lucario was still the first instance of a trainer-Pokemon pair using Mega Evolution in the more traditional sense.

    I believe I have actually found a way to justify almost all of the "inconsistencies" between X/Y and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire. The only thing I can't justify is Sycamore saying that Mega Evolution occurs only in the Kalos Region, but who knows? Maybe Mega Evolution was only just discovered in Hoenn, right before Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire began, but after X and Y ended.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
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  7. #14307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Actually, when you think about it, Mega Rayquaza and Mega Lucario really don't contradict each other. Mega Rayquaza was the first instance what we might call Mega Evolution, but it was entirely different, as it required no Mega Stone or Key Stone. Mega Lucario was still the first instance of a trainer-Pokemon pair using Mega Evolution in the more traditional sense.

    I believe I have actually found a way to justify almost all of the "inconsistencies" between X/Y and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire. The only thing I can't justify is Sycamore saying that Mega Evolution occurs only in the Kalos Region, but who knows? Maybe Mega Evolution was only just discovered in Hoenn, right before Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire began, but after X and Y ended.
    Good point about Rayquaza and Lucario.

    But another thing that bothers me is that, none of the Pokemon introduced in Gen 6 Mega Evolves. If we are to get a sequel, wouldn't it be a bit late to introduce Gen 6 Megas? Isn't it more appropriate to introduce and obtain them in a third version instead, where the story starts fresh?

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  8. #14308
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonBlazeX View Post
    Yeah, I think so.Second Universe:
    FireRed / LeafGreen
    HeartGold / SoulSilver
    Ruby / Sapphire / Emerald
    Diamond / Pearl / Platinum
    Black / White
    Black 2 / White 2

    Third Universe:
    OmegaRuby / AlphaSapphire
    X / Y
    According to information on the summary of Banked Pokémon transferred from older games, the thing with 'traveled through time and space' tells me that the Pokémon must've travelled through distant dimensions.

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  9. #14309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    Good point about Rayquaza and Lucario.

    But another thing that bothers me is that, none of the Pokemon introduced in Gen 6 Mega Evolves. If we are to get a sequel, wouldn't it be a bit late to introduce Gen 6 Megas? Isn't it more appropriate to introduce and obtain them in a third version instead, where the story starts fresh?
    They could just play them up as newly discovered, or they may not even make any Gen 6 Megas, and stick with their current method of only giving Megas to Gen 1-5 Pokemon.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    Also, for news, reviews, info on my custom games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, a Special Episode, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing all of my custom Pokémon, complete with pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website.

  10. #14310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    ... or they may not even make any Gen 6 Megas, and stick with their current method of only giving Megas to Gen 1-5 Pokemon.
    That's kinda lame, considering that Gen 6 introduced the concept.

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  11. #14311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    That would be true if not for the fact that both ORAS and XY take place in the same Megaverse.
    I thought they implied that every single game and every single adventure is a "universe". There is no reason for games to be connected and games not to be connected on timelines etc only because they have similarities that can't be changed in the old games anymore (like Mega Evolution).
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  12. #14312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    I think a third version would be more appropriate than a sequel.

    Several concepts introduced in XY were now inconsistent with ORAS; Lucario being the first Pokemon to Mega Evolve (when it's actually Rayquaza), for example. Also the whole concept of Mega Evolution being introduced as Kalos' biggest mystery, weren't really as mysterious now thanks to ORAS.
    I assumed it was less a case of inconsistent lore and more a case of misinformation. Mega Rayquaza isn't exactly particularly well known, after all, so Lucario could be the first to Mega Evolve by traditional means and what we learned in XY wouldn't be wrong, per se.

  13. #14313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasty Jynx View Post
    I thought they implied that every single game and every single adventure is a "universe". There is no reason for games to be connected and games not to be connected on timelines etc only because they have similarities that can't be changed in the old games anymore (like Mega Evolution).
    Basically this.

    While it is obvious that events in X/Y did happen, it doesn't mean those events happened in the same universe.

    Their current characterization of the multiverse basically allows them to do whatever they want to do.

    Because if it were the "Megaverse", ORAS would have to be a sequel to Emerald, as XY is implied to be a sequel to B2W2, which was a sequel to BW, which was a sequel to HGSS/Pt, which was a sequel to FRLGE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    They could just play them up as newly discovered, or they may not even make any Gen 6 Megas, and stick with their current method of only giving Megas to Gen 1-5 Pokemon.
    I don't see much of a point in why they wouldn't do this, since we already have a Gen 6 Mega(Diancie) and the generation will not be relevant for at least a decade, at which point we will likely have other mechanics like alternative types, fusions and whathaveyou.
    Last edited by Trainer Yusuf; 6th September 2015 at 12:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..

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  14. #14314
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    Fusions?
    No that would not make sense in a Pokemon game.
    Does anyone want fused Pokemon?

  15. #14315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    Because if it were the "Megaverse", ORAS would have to be a sequel to Emerald, as XY is implied to be a sequel to B2W2, which was a sequel to BW, which was a sequel to HGSS/Pt, which was a sequel to FRLGE.
    How is OR/AS a sequel to Emerald?

    And I only used the term 'sequel' since HG/SS continues the TR plot from Kanto (FR/LG).
    Last edited by Janovy; 6th September 2015 at 12:40 PM.



  16. #14316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    How is OR/AS a sequel to Emerald?

    And I only used the term 'sequel' since HG/SS continues the TR plot from Kanto (FR/LG).
    My argument is that XY is not supposed to take in same universe as ORAS, but rather the continuation of DS timeline, while OR/AS is supposed to be its own universe.

    OR/AS is not a "replacement" for original Emerald or Ruby/Sapphire, the sameway HG/SS became replacement for G/S in the timeline for FR/LG to Johto.

    In other words, timeline for X/Y is;

    FR/LG/E->Pt/HG/SS->BW->B2W2->X/Y

    Not

    OR/AS->*insert new remakes of Megaverse here*->X/Y

    or

    nothing->X/Y/OR/AS.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..

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  17. #14317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    My argument is that XY is not supposed to take in same universe as ORAS, but rather the continuation of DS timeline, while OR/AS is supposed to be its own universe.
    What makes you feel like XY takes place in the same universe as B2W2 and other non-Mega Games?

    And I think the lack of Mega Evolution in previous games and Zinnia's talk of alternate universe without Mega Evolution (a.k.a. everything prior to XY) makes it pretty certain that XY and ORAS take place in a timeline where Mega Evolution does exist. It was a direct confirmation.

    I find it hard to believe that XY takes place in the same universe as B2/W2 and previous games when they do not have Mega Evolution.

    It's much easier to accept that Gamefreak screwed up and created a small plot hole.



  18. #14318
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    I agree with above. OR/AS's lore makes it seem to be in its own timeline, rather than the one we already know. The next Kalos games probably are a continuation of OR/AS set in Kalos instead of Hoenn, completely overwriting X/Y.

  19. #14319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of Truth View Post
    I agree with above. OR/AS's lore makes it seem to be in its own timeline, rather than the one we already know. The next Kalos games probably are a continuation of OR/AS set in Kalos instead of Hoenn, completely overwriting X/Y.
    Or, we can just admit that ORAS and XY take place in the same universe and that writers ****ed up with XY and the next set of games is likely to rectify that.



  20. #14320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    What makes you feel like XY takes place in the same universe as B2W2 and other non-Mega Games?

    And I think the lack of Mega Evolution in previous games and Zinnia's talk of alternate universe without Mega Evolution (a.k.a. everything prior to XY) makes it pretty certain that XY and ORAS take place in a timeline where Mega Evolution does exist. It was a direct confirmation.

    I find it hard to believe that XY takes place in the same universe as B2/W2 and previous games when they do not have Mega Evolution.

    It's much easier to accept that Gamefreak screwed up and created a small plot hole.
    In XY, there are references to Team Plasma and IIRC they are stated to be recently defeated.

    Almost all of the pre-release, and in-series references argue that Mega Stones are more or less a Kalos-specific phenomenon.

    Unless XY happens to take place in an universe with a Mega Stone variation of B2W2's storyline, the implication seems to be a direct continuity. Initially anyways.

    And again, there is the Hasty Jynx's comment. The current implication is there is no such thing as a continuous timeline anymore. They might reestablish it in Z, but we can't make any arguments in favour of, or against it in the current situation, due to lack of information, and care by GF.
    Last edited by Trainer Yusuf; 6th September 2015 at 1:06 PM.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..

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  21. #14321
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    Is every season of anime in the same universe?

  22. #14322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    In XY, there are references to Team Plasma and IIRC they are stated to be recently defeated.
    Yes...and? Team Plasma exists in the Megaverse as well. All the regions and regional villains exist in Mega Verse. The presence of Mega Evolution does alter the story of those teams a bit, but they're all still there. That just means that the Plasma reference was a reference to the Plasma of Megaverse.

    For example, did you see Pokemon Origins? That was basically the plot of FRLG in Megaverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    Almost all of the pre-release, and in-series references argue that Mega Stones are more or less a Kalos-specific phenomenon.
    Which is an inconsistency that needs to be fixed.

    I mean, if it weren't for ORAS, I wouldn't believe any of this, but Zinnia clearly stated there is a world without a Mega Evolution.

    The only known worlds with Mega Evolution so far are those of XY and ORAS and any next game or remake that we get (unless they decide to go back to the original universe and set the games there).
    Last edited by Janovy; 6th September 2015 at 1:17 PM.



  23. #14323
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    my Doylist interpretation is that XY was originally as part of the non-Mega timeline after the GBA and DS games, until it was retconned by ORAS into sharing a timeline with ORAS

    between all the things tying Megas specifically to Kalos, the references to past games, and then weird things like Mauville and Lumiose being sister cities but only one of them ever acknowledging it, they would kinda need a revised third version to call canon to straighten things out

    if you try to come up with a Watsonian explanation based on what we have now, you're gonna have a bad time

  24. #14324
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    In all honesty, I firmly believe in the theory that each game (each single release) is in it's own universe with just a few amount of events that are present going forward. The Pokémon games have never been quite consistent even when it was just RGBY->GSC (you expect me to believe there were Steel/Dark pokémon that no one ever saw in Kanto until two years later? Hondour, fine... but I mean Magnemite?). Every game I've played I've had to have a suspension of disbelief lest I realize how poor the lore of the games are between Gens.

    Alternate Universe per game always worked for me anyways (even before Delta episode) especially since each Gen is based on a pair of versions (and a third or a sequel).
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  25. #14325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    In all honesty, I firmly believe in the theory that each game (each single release) is in it's own universe with just a few amount of events that are present going forward. The Pokémon games have never been quite consistent even when it was just RGBY->GSC (you expect me to believe there were Steel/Dark pokémon that no one ever saw in Kanto until two years later? Hondour, fine... but I mean Magnemite?). Every game I've played I've had to have a suspension of disbelief lest I realize how poor the lore of the games are between Gens.

    Alternate Universe per game always worked for me anyways (even before Delta episode) especially since each Gen is based on a pair of versions (and a third or a sequel).
    I don't get what your point about Magnemite is. The species already existed during RGBY; it is its reclassification as being part Steel (until FRLG upended that and said that its Steel classification was already known at the time, that is) that occurred during the interim. I don't see what the inconsistency is.

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