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  1. #14676
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    I don't exactly know why, but I actually like the fact that these are forms for Zygarde, not Mega forms. I'm just hoping that the marketing for this next game has a lot more in store for features and story than just showing new Megas like ORAS's marketing was.

  2. #14677
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    Quote Originally Posted by DotKU View Post
    I don't exactly know why, but I actually like the fact that these are forms for Zygarde, not Mega forms. I'm just hoping that the marketing for this next game has a lot more in store for features and story than just showing new Megas like ORAS's marketing was.
    I wouldn't like that they reveal a lot about this new game.

  3. #14678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    I'm pretty sure Zygarde 10% is inspired by Fenrir or some other wolf from Norse mythology, but I agree, Perfect Zygarde doesn't look anything like Hel(besides its crown I suppose), and Zygarde 50% has much more common with Nidhoggr than Jormungandr.
    Even Nighoggr is a bit flaky since the two couldn't be anymore different character-wise (one's a destructive dragon, the other is actually trying to preserve order), they do at least share the theme of being subterranean snakes, I'll give it that much compared to Jormungandr.


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  4. #14679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvixer View Post
    I wouldn't like that they reveal a lot about this new game.
    I mean they shouldn't really need to spoil the game, I'm just saying it would be nice to know things like if this is story focused or like what features are returning/coming and that kind of stuff. Rather than just relying on Mega evolution every month.

  5. #14680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrax View Post
    With the Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde's Norsk mythology theme, I sincerely doubt that. Might wanna refresh your memory with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulbapedia
    Zygarde 50% Forme's appearance is based on a serpent in the shape of the letter Z. It may also draw inspiration from both the Níđhöggr and the Jörmungandr. Jörmungandr, often written Jormungand, or Jörmungand and also known as the Midgard Serpent (Old Norse: Midgarđsormr), or World Serpent, is a sea serpent. According to the Prose Edda, Jörmungandr is punished by Odin by tossing it into the great ocean that encircles Midgard. The serpent grew so large that he was able to surround the earth and grasp his own tail. Níđhöggr is the serpent from the Poetic Edda which resided at the bottom of the world tree Yggdrasill and gnawed at its roots. The patterns spread upon Zygarde's body are very similar to and may be based upon ribose and deoxyribose molecules. Its tail is possibly based in shape on base pair codons, the essential building blocks of the DNA double helix.
    The molecular and cell biology aspect makes sense because of Zygarde's Core and Cells, along with the fact that a different set of DNA means a different organism. So a different number of Cells connected to the Core corresponds to a different forme of Zygarde. I thought that those spikes on Zygarde's back looked a bit like those diagrams of nucleic acids in a Biology class.

  6. #14681
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    I'm pumped for Z. Hopefully they expand Kiloude and improve the post-game in general.

    Also, props to everyone who caught the Norse (why are we calling it Norsk?) mythology references in Zygarde's new forms. I was really confused by the dog until I realized it probably was Fenrir. In that case, maybe Zygard is an amalgamation of the various destructive beasts in Norse mythology? (Not that that makes sense considering Yveltal is the "chaos" one, but it's the only thing tying them together that I can see...)

    Maybe the Perfect Form is a reference to Surt, or jotunns in general.


  7. #14682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    Even Nighoggr is a bit flaky since the two couldn't be anymore different character-wise (one's a destructive dragon, the other is actually trying to preserve order), they do at least share the theme of being subterranean snakes, I'll give it that much compared to Jormungandr.
    Yeah, I have never really seen much in it myself. The XYZ trio doesn't share much with the four stags, Hrćsvelgr and Nídhöggr besides being a besides being groups consisting of stags, birds and serpents (and squirrels in the Norse world map's case). So while they are pretty bad at representing what the individual creatures stand for it is quite a coincidence if GF also added a group of a stag, a bird and a serpent without being influenced somewhere. Then again aside from Nidhöggr these creatures are pretty plain.
    That said, adding in that Zygarde 50% also represents Jörmungandr, 10% Fenrir and 100% either Hel or Loki is quite a stretch to me. At least in the previous case the legendaries looked somewhat like the mythological creatures. 10% doesn't really look like Fenrir(if you have to use a Norse canine at least use Garmr), nor does 100% remotely look like Hel or Loki besides being humanoid(again if anything it is more like a brute Jotunn). Also unlike the previous case all these creatures have a lot of character, all pretty much being involved with Ragnarok, which is kind if the opposite of Zygarde's order. And this only even works if we casually forgets to bring Zygarde Core and Cell into the equation. All in all I think people are pushing a bit too much to get everything related to the XYZ legendaries to fit into Norse mythology.
    The cell theme for Zygarde is much stronger than anything related to Norse mythology. And I think it being able to transform into a dog is just a reference to all organisms being made of cell, even though a dog is a weird choice.
    Last edited by Endless; 12th September 2015 at 7:18 PM.


  8. #14683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endless View Post
    Yeah, I have never really seen much in it myself. The XYZ trio doesn't share much with the four stags, Hrćsvelgr and Nídhöggr besides being a besides being groups consisting of stags, birds and serpents (and squirrels in the Norse world map's case). So while they are pretty bad at representing what the individual creatures stand for it is quite a coincidence if GF also added a group of a stag, a bird and a serpent without being influenced somewhere. Then again aside from Nidhöggr these creatures are pretty plain.
    That said, adding in that Zygarde 50% also represents Jörmungandr, 10% Fenrir and 100% either Hel or Loki is quite a stretch to me. At least in the previous case the legendaries looked somewhat like the mythological creatures. 10% doesn't really look like Fenrir(if you have to use a Norse canine at least use Garmr, nor does 100% remotely look like Hel or Loki besides being humanoid. Also unlike the previous case all these creatures have a lot of character, all pretty much being involved with Ragnarok, which is kind if the opposite of Zygarde's order. And this only even works if we casually forgets to bring Zygarde Core and Cell into the equation. All in all I think people are pushing a bit too much to get everything related to the XYZ legendaries to fit into Norse mythology.
    I have to agree, and that's one of my biggest problems with the theory as it kind of forces the three legendaries into the myth without considering that they lack a lot of defining features of those respective characters design and lore-wise. At least with examples like Thundurus, he has a lot of traits in both lore and design that clearly associate him with Raijin, I can't say the same with, say Yveltal and Hrćsvelgr, who lack a lot of notable similarities with each other.


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  9. #14684
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    This all just sounds like dragon ball z. What is going on at Pokemon HQ nowadays?

  10. #14685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret View Post
    This all just sounds like dragon ball z. What is going on at Pokemon HQ nowadays?
    Hopefully focusing on working on a stronger (character and plot wise imo) game than its predecessors.
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    "Dictyostelium discoideum is a species of soil-living amoeba belonging to the phylum Mycetozoa. Commonly referred to as slime mold, D. discoideum is a eukaryote that transitions from a collection of unicellular amoebae into a multicellular slug and then into a fruiting body within its lifetime."

    From Wikipedia.

    This can explain the Core and Cellular Zygard going together to make a larger Zygard (and the 50% form is a Slug )
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  12. #14687
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    That freaking Greninja tho!

    Already half way sold on this game lmao.
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  13. #14688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metafogos View Post
    "Dictyostelium discoideum is a species of soil-living amoeba belonging to the phylum Mycetozoa. Commonly referred to as slime mold, D. discoideum is a eukaryote that transitions from a collection of unicellular amoebae into a multicellular slug and then into a fruiting body within its lifetime."

    From Wikipedia.

    This can explain the Core and Cellular Zygard going together to make a larger Zygard (and the 50% form is a Slug )
    Wow. Damn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endless View Post
    Yeah, I have never really seen much in it myself. The XYZ trio doesn't share much with the four stags, Hrćsvelgr and Nídhöggr besides being a besides being groups consisting of stags, birds and serpents (and squirrels in the Norse world map's case). So while they are pretty bad at representing what the individual creatures stand for it is quite a coincidence if GF also added a group of a stag, a bird and a serpent without being influenced somewhere. Then again aside from Nidhöggr these creatures are pretty plain.
    That said, adding in that Zygarde 50% also represents Jörmungandr, 10% Fenrir and 100% either Hel or Loki is quite a stretch to me. At least in the previous case the legendaries looked somewhat like the mythological creatures. 10% doesn't really look like Fenrir(if you have to use a Norse canine at least use Garmr), nor does 100% remotely look like Hel or Loki besides being humanoid(again if anything it is more like a brute Jotunn). Also unlike the previous case all these creatures have a lot of character, all pretty much being involved with Ragnarok, which is kind if the opposite of Zygarde's order. And this only even works if we casually forgets to bring Zygarde Core and Cell into the equation. All in all I think people are pushing a bit too much to get everything related to the XYZ legendaries to fit into Norse mythology.
    The cell theme for Zygarde is much stronger than anything related to Norse mythology. And I think it being able to transform into a dog is just a reference to all organisms being made of cell, even though a dog is a weird choice.
    Yeah... no.

    But I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to bother with it. However, no one really should think legendaries, or any Pokémon for that are some abstract physical representations concepts with no real-life, cultural or mythological equivalent, nor should they think their basis is one very specific idea, rather than an amalgamation of different, possibly related, possibly unrelated ideas.
    Last edited by Trainer Yusuf; 12th September 2015 at 8:21 PM.
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  14. #14689
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8WOWEqP6o"]But I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to bother with it. However, no one really should think legendaries, or any Pokémon for that are some abstract physical representations concepts with no real-life, cultural or mythological equivalent, nor should they think their basis is one very specific idea, rather than an amalgamation of different, possibly related, possibly unrelated ideas.
    Even considering that, examples like the Weather trio and Tao trio exist, which have clear implications of their origins rather then just sharing one particular aspect of them. If you were to ask someone what Zekrom represents, they would easily pinpoint Yang due to its color, contrasts with Reshiram, abilities, etc. The same cannot be said with the XYZ legendaries and the Norse theory as they don't have anything clearly connecting them to Norse mythology, it's all working off of one particular aspect and running with it. That's not a good way to pinpoint an origin, especially when we have to consider there are so many mythologies and concepts that they could've drawn from otherwise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Metafogos View Post
    "Dictyostelium discoideum is a species of soil-living amoeba belonging to the phylum Mycetozoa. Commonly referred to as slime mold, D. discoideum is a eukaryote that transitions from a collection of unicellular amoebae into a multicellular slug and then into a fruiting body within its lifetime."

    From Wikipedia.

    This can explain the Core and Cellular Zygard going together to make a larger Zygard (and the 50% form is a Slug :D )
    Interesting animal. :o

    In the video that Trainer Yusuf linked you can even see a big similarity between the "tail" of those amoebae and Zygarde's tail if you look closely.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8WOWEqP6o#t=1m52s
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  16. #14691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    Wow. Damn.


    Yeah... no.

    But I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to bother with it. However, no one really should think legendaries, or any Pokémon for that are some abstract physical representations concepts with no real-life, cultural or mythological equivalent, nor should they think their basis is one very specific idea, rather than an amalgamation of different, possibly related, possibly unrelated ideas.
    I agree. If Pokemon were to just be based on one myth/creature/object, then it wouldn't make the Pokemon unique. If Zygarde was just supposed to be just Nidhogg or Jormungandr, then that's what he would be, not Zygarde.
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  17. #14692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    Wow. Damn.


    Yeah... no.

    But I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to bother with it. However, no one really should think legendaries, or any Pokémon for that are some abstract physical representations concepts with no real-life, cultural or mythological equivalent, nor should they think their basis is one very specific idea, rather than an amalgamation of different, possibly related, possibly unrelated ideas.
    Care to explain instead of just bluntly dismissing me like that?
    Looking at the different Zygarde formes and the children of Loki the only traits they share are being a canine, a serpent and a humanoid creature. Like I'm genuinely curious how you can see Fenrir in Zygarde 10% at all. Sure, I can be wrong, but the argumentation for the theory is very thin. And when it comes to pokémon inspiration a lot of it is guessing so I hardly think either you or I have the right to claim that we are definitely right.
    Of course I know that Pokemon can be based on several things. The XYZ trio reminds me more of Hindu deities where creation, maintenance and destruction are extremely important aspects, which is why I have kind of settled for the Norse world map creatures being their visual inspiration while thematically being more similar to Hindu deities. I feel they kind of did the same with the Therian formes as well, with them visually resembling three of the four Chinese constellation creatures while still thematically just being Raijin, Fujin and Inari. However I don't see the same level of accuracy when it comes to the visuals of the Zygarde formes corresponding to Loki and his children.
    Last edited by Endless; 12th September 2015 at 9:15 PM.


  18. #14693
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    Am I the only one who just realized that the hexagons are supposed to represent 6 carbon molecular rings or am I just slow?
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  19. #14694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret View Post
    This all just sounds like dragon ball z. What is going on at Pokemon HQ nowadays?
    Oh, boy. Here come the "Pokemon's Stealing Ideas" Accusations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metafogos View Post
    "Dictyostelium discoideum is a species of soil-living amoeba belonging to the phylum Mycetozoa. Commonly referred to as slime mold, D. discoideum is a eukaryote that transitions from a collection of unicellular amoebae into a multicellular slug and then into a fruiting body within its lifetime."

    From Wikipedia.

    This can explain the Core and Cellular Zygard going together to make a larger Zygard (and the 50% form is a Slug )
    I just don't get why they shoehorned the Dragon typing in.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    Am I the only one who just realized that the hexagons are supposed to represent 6 carbon molecular rings or am I just slow?
    Props to you. I never even realized it.

  20. #14695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post

    I just don't get why they shoehorned the Dragon typing in.
    Well... the dragon type in Pokemon are something strange things... not necessary a lizard like one. Even things more "dragons" aren't dragons...
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  21. #14696
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    Yeah I know they were based on norse myths, even though the region is based on france, and I also know that the XYZ "maybe" is because the dna or the 3d axys ( thats a fan theory, no real confirmation on that) what I was saying is that the new zygarde is also based on Cell, you cant put those 2 side by side and you can see what I'm talking about. I mean they already did it with mewtwo, based him on frezzer you know.

    One thing dont neglect the other or you think they based the pokemon design in just one thing? I'm not trying to being rude just want to point out something thats pretty obvious to me

  22. #14697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metafogos View Post
    Well... the dragon type in Pokemon are something strange things... not necessary a lizard like one. Even things more "dragons" aren't dragons...
    Yeah, while Zygarde doesn't really scream Dragon type with its other formes, in its defense some of the other Dragon types don't look too much more like Dragons in a traditional sense, legendary or otherwise. I don't think people would necessarily look at Dialga and Palkia and think "yup that looks like a Dragon."
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  23. #14698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulava View Post
    I think a better comparison would've been AZ's Floette. It's called "Ash Greninja" anyway.
    It's from a few pages back, but I had a similar thought that maybe this Greninja will be similar to AZ's Floette and be released as an event later on.
    This is also a lot less complicated than the idea I shared earlier.

    I can also support it being a possible Mega Greninja. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a mega didn't look too much different in it's Mega form than in it's normal form.

    I wonder what these forms are going to have to do with those two unreleased signature moves Zygarde has (Thousand Arrows/Waves)?

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  24. #14699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Oh, boy. Here come the "Pokemon's Stealing Ideas" Accusations.



    They kind of are. It is getting obsessive beyond megas now. Can't we just give the pokemon that actually need megas the benefit of the doubt? Zygarde perfect is going to be so overpowered and I thought Mega Rayquaza was bad. I love the new formes but... I expected only one forme.

  25. #14700
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    I'm not seeing the Norse mythology with Zygarde's forme. At least not as readily apparent as Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde's 50% forme.

    The Dog forme looks a lot more like a Doberman than Fenrir (who is typically portrayed as a wolf anyways). And I don't recall anything resembling Zygarde's mecha forme in regards to Norse mythology.
    Last edited by BurningWhiteKyurem; 12th September 2015 at 11:22 PM.

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