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Thread: ~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

  1. #14751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    While I understand the complaints about the Kyurem forms (well for the most part), I personally would say that if they had one thing over Zygarde's new forms, it's that they kept their thematic straight. With Kyurem, it's a decrepit ice dragon that lacks energy, that's why it sought Reshiram/Zekrom so that it could be whole again. Black and White Kyurem keep that thematic as they are half decrepit ice dragons who got some of that power back, with the addition of the fact that their forms were half complete and thus didn't look whole, resulting in monstrosities that were either too masculine or feminine (well, as feminine as a decrepit dragon could be) and still seemed incomplete. In that respect, I felt they worked because they had an idea for Kyurem and kept that idea throughout the three forms. Same with Mega Heracross for that matter as while I don't like the design, it did advance its original concept of being a horned beetle.

    With Zygarde, I can't say the same even if the Norse theory is true. There's really no consistent thematic between the form we originally see Zygarde in (as a snake) and the forms we got aside from the cells (who look like baby snakes/flatworms). The dog is completely out of nowhere and doesn't mesh well with any of the other three whereas the titan doesn't keep much from Zygarde's snake form or the other two forms. The only consistent feature between the four is the hexagons, but everything else about them doesn't flow well into each other. Maybe once we get their lore it'll seem more consistent from that perspective, but just going by design, I feel that there's not a lot of coherency in them aside from the cells and snake forms.
    Sums up my thoughts. I'm surprised people dislike(d) the Kyurem designs, as I thought it was a fantastic way to hammer home the point that the Original Dragon is a combination of Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem. And frankly, I love how they took decrepit to a whole new level with the fusions. I can't say the same for Zygarde.

  2. #14752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Painkiller2001 View Post
    I can't see this happening, at all (I can just imagine the fan backlash now if it did, though), but I don't mean this in an 'oh-god-Charizard-and-Mewtwo-are-such-overrated-gen-1-Pokemon-they-don't-deserve-one-more-mega-each!' way, just that I don't think it's necessary just because they have an X and Y form already.
    I wouldn't complain, and would be interested in what they could come up with. However, the odds of them making something cooler than Mega Charizard X is almost zero. You just can't beat that epicness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    While I understand the complaints about the Kyurem forms (well for the most part), I personally would say that if they had one thing over Zygarde's new forms, it's that they kept their thematic straight. With Kyurem, it's a decrepit ice dragon that lacks energy, that's why it sought Reshiram/Zekrom so that it could be whole again. Black and White Kyurem keep that thematic as they are half decrepit ice dragons who got some of that power back, with the addition of the fact that their forms were half complete and thus didn't look whole, resulting in monstrosities that were either too masculine or feminine (well, as feminine as a decrepit dragon could be) and still seemed incomplete. In that respect, I felt they worked because they had an idea for Kyurem and kept that idea throughout the three forms. Same with Mega Heracross for that matter as while I don't like the design, it did advance its original concept of being a horned beetle.

    With Zygarde, I can't say the same even if the Norse theory is true. There's really no consistent thematic between the form we originally see Zygarde in (as a snake) and the forms we got aside from the cells (who look like baby snakes/flatworms). The dog is completely out of nowhere and doesn't mesh well with any of the other three whereas the titan doesn't keep much from Zygarde's snake form or the other two forms. The only consistent feature between the four is the hexagons, but everything else about them doesn't flow well into each other. Maybe once we get their lore it'll seem more consistent from that perspective, but just going by design, I feel that there's not a lot of coherency in them aside from the cells and snake forms.
    That essentially sums up my opinions on the topic. It would seem like Zygarde's gimmick/theme is that it completely transforms, but I think I'd rather see a stronger resemblance across the forms. I too am waiting for the lore and to see how these forms work before I cast my final judgment, but the prospect is not looking good for my fourth favorite Pokemon.

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  3. #14753
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    Personally, Black and White Kyurem's designs are not appealing to me because they're very fragmented and asymmetrical (yes, for a good reason, but still...), taking obvious chunks of Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom and piecing them together awkwardly. Also, I have no idea what's the deal with the DNA splicers despite having played through the game. Why would an item that was naturally created and left behind during the split sound and look so... technical and unnatural? And who in their right mind wouldn't try to complete the fusion of the three dragons when you already have all the ingredients in place?

    As for Zygarde, its lore and references are so ridiculously far-fetched and complicated (for a children's game trying too hard to be serious without the cast and dialogue to support it) that I'm just immune to their fanciful 'formes'.

    And when's the last time you actually used Rayquaza for uh... serious battling?
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 14th September 2015 at 8:25 AM.
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  4. #14754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Personally, Black and White Kyurem's designs are not appealing to me because they're very fragmented and asymmetrical (yes, for a good reason, but still...), taking obvious chunks of Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom and piecing them together awkwardly.
    I actually liked the asymetry of Black and White Kyurem. I found it pretty cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power
    Also, I have no idea what's the deal with the DNA splicers despite having played through the game. Why would an item that was naturally created and left behind during the split sound and look so... technical and unnatural? And who in their right mind wouldn't try to complete the fusion of the three dragons when you already have all the ingredients in place?
    Recently I've been down to Boston Harbor State park, and on the beach I found a lot of these rectangular-prism and cylindrical rocks (like some would be more jagged or curved, but I found some cylindrical ones with flat ends on both sides).
    What we think is "unnatural" and man-made might be inspired by some shapes that nature made, so I don't see how the DNA splicer looked unnatural. I mean, the Legendary Pokémon could've made it like that, and since they're technically natural animals, that's why the lore explains that it was "naturally made".

  5. #14755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    That essentially sums up my opinions on the topic. It would seem like Zygarde's gimmick/theme is that it completely transforms, but I think I'd rather see a stronger resemblance across the forms. I too am waiting for the lore and to see how these forms work before I cast my final judgment, but the prospect is not looking good for my fourth favorite Pokemon.
    If indeed completely different transformations is what Zygarde does (ie. the Cores and Cells make entirely different forms with only tenuous links to one another based upon what they need to do, with the dog being for speed, snake for hibernation and titan/whatever for smacking down some wayward Xerneas/Yveltals), the lack of a more than passing resemblance between the Formes may be part of the point. We're definitely going to need some lore to get a good idea of what is going on here.

  6. #14756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hidden Power View Post
    Personally, Black and White Kyurem's designs are not appealing to me because they're very fragmented and asymmetrical (yes, for a good reason, but still...), taking obvious chunks of Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom and piecing them together awkwardly. Also, I have no idea what's the deal with the DNA splicers despite having played through the game. Why would an item that was naturally created and left behind during the split sound and look so... technical and unnatural? And who in their right mind wouldn't try to complete the fusion of the three dragons when you already have all the ingredients in place?

    As for Zygarde, its lore and references are so ridiculously far-fetched and complicated (for a children's game trying too hard to be serious without the cast and dialogue to support it) that I'm just immune to their fanciful 'formes'.

    And when's the last time you actually used Rayquaza for uh... serious battling?
    Mega Rayquaza's not used for "serious battling" due to how overpowered it could potentially be. After all, it single-handedly inspired the unofficial competitive league "Smogon" to create a new tier where everything goes simply due to how overpowered could be even when compared to the likes of Mewtwo's Mega Evolutions (which are just as powerful stat wise, but requires Mewtwo to be holding an item in order to use) and Arceus (which ironically has base stats lower than Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, the two Mewtwo Mega Evolutions and Mega Rayquaza).

    Mega Rayquaza's overpowered due to it being the only Mega Evolved Pokémon to only needing to know a certain move to Mega Evolve instead of relying on holding a Mega Stone. Therefore, its stats could be boosted even further by the use of held items.

  7. #14757
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    So, does the Mecha forme get both Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves because I can't see a cell or a dog getting it.

    Also, I'd kinda love it if they really push Zygarde aside and give Xerneas and Yveltal new formes as well.

  8. #14758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack the Titan View Post
    I actually liked the asymetry of Black and White Kyurem. I found it pretty cool.



    Recently I've been down to Boston Harbor State park, and on the beach I found a lot of these rectangular-prism and cylindrical rocks (like some would be more jagged or curved, but I found some cylindrical ones with flat ends on both sides).
    What we think is "unnatural" and man-made might be inspired by some shapes that nature made, so I don't see how the DNA splicer looked unnatural. I mean, the Legendary Pokémon could've made it like that, and since they're technically natural animals, that's why the lore explains that it was "naturally made".
    It's more of the overly elaborate cutscene showing the transformation of the splicer from a grey orb to prism shape that I had an issue with. To me, it's as if Game Freak isn't sure whether to portray the fusion scene as one full of magic and mystery or something you expect to see in a sci-fi movie, so we end up with a awkward mixture of both.

    Like I said earlier, fanciful transformation mechanics and complex lore for a handful of Pokemon don't really serve much of purpose. They can only do this so often before things get stale. Of course Zygarde would get something in the sequel/third game, it's not like we didn't see it coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by KarjamP View Post
    Mega Rayquaza's not used for "serious battling" due to how overpowered it could potentially be. After all, it single-handedly inspired the unofficial competitive league "Smogon" to create a new tier where everything goes simply due to how overpowered could be even when compared to the likes of Mewtwo's Mega Evolutions (which are just as powerful stat wise, but requires Mewtwo to be holding an item in order to use) and Arceus (which ironically has base stats lower than Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon, the two Mewtwo Mega Evolutions and Mega Rayquaza).

    Mega Rayquaza's overpowered due to it being the only Mega Evolved Pokémon to only needing to know a certain move to Mega Evolve instead of relying on holding a Mega Stone. Therefore, its stats could be boosted even further by the use of held items.
    Uh, that was meant to be sarcasm to highlight the futility of introducing overly powered beasts.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 14th September 2015 at 3:16 PM.
    The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.
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    My question is, how is this gonna relate to the game? Can we battle with Zygarde Core and Cell? What happens with Zygarde 50% in XY?

  10. #14760
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    I believe the Zygarde Core would be treated in-game the same way Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy and Victini are treated in their respective games, minus being "event exclusive". That, and the fact that it could transform into its other three forms. After all, it was pointed out that Zygarde Core was introduced in the same manner as Victini when it was introduced within a trailer.

  11. #14761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Yveltal Steak View Post
    My question is, how is this gonna relate to the game? Can we battle with Zygarde Core and Cell? What happens with Zygarde 50% in XY?
    With the new info I think it is fair to assume that we can't battle with Cells at least. Since they lack thought process, moves and it is even debatable if they are pokémon on their own.



  12. #14762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endless View Post
    With the new info I think it is fair to assume that we can't battle with Cells at least. Since they lack thought process, moves and it is even debatable if they are pokémon on their own.
    i agree. I think only 10%, 50% and 100% will be usable in battle.



  13. #14763

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    Apparently, Ash-Greninja is a form Greninja takes on when Ash and Greninja takes their bond to the limit. Which is basically mega evolution. But not quite. This phenomena happens rarely, with the last appearence of this unique transformation seen in the last several hundred years. What even.
    Ash-Greninja looks even more weirder in its official art. Is this a new game mechanic or an anime exclusive?

    Btw, Zygarde Complete Forme looks better now, and I understand Zygarde 10% now. As a small and fast form, it can do some espionage on the environment much easier without being seen. Idk.

  14. #14764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Yveltal Steak View Post
    My question is, how is this gonna relate to the game? Can we battle with Zygarde Core and Cell? What happens with Zygarde 50% in XY?
    I doubt we'll get to battle with Core and Cell, they don't seem to be their own Pokemon, rather just the components of 10%, 50%, and 100%.

    It'd be interesting if we could get Zygarde fairly early in the game, that'd be a nice way to shake up the formula. Like, maybe we could find 10% fairly early in the game (like around the 3rd gym) and then towards the end of the game when we visit Rt. 18 the first time, you go inside Terminus Cave and find more Cells where Zygarde was in XY and Zygarde turns into 50%, and then during the final battle with Team Flare, Zygarde turns into 100%. That would be really awesome.
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  15. #14765
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    Ash greninja its probable a nod to Az floette, also if it need a bond to the trainer and if they meke a new mechanic out of it maybe in game we need to use pokemon ammie

  16. #14766
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    Oh great Greninja will become even more OP and you will probably be able to use it with a mega since his new form is not a mega.

    I doubt this will be a anime exclusive thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reykho View Post
    Ash greninja its probable a nod to Az floette, also if it need a bond to the trainer and if they meke a new mechanic out of it maybe in game we need to use pokemon ammie
    That's actually a really good theory. I hadn't considered that before. Nice catch.
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  18. #14768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Yveltal Steak View Post
    Apparently, Ash-Greninja is a form Greninja takes on when Ash and Greninja takes their bond to the limit. Which is basically mega evolution. But not quite. This phenomena happens rarely, with the last appearence of this unique transformation seen in the last several hundred years. What even.
    Ash-Greninja looks even more weirder in its official art. Is this a new game mechanic or an anime exclusive?

    Btw, Zygarde Complete Forme looks better now, and I understand Zygarde 10% now. As a small and fast form, it can do some espionage on the environment much easier without being seen. Idk.
    I think this will be an anime exclusive thing. It's specific to Ash and the games don't exactly follow the storylines in the anime.

    Though, this seems like it'll hint at possible Mega Evolutions for Kalosmons seeing how close this is to MegaEvo as a mechanic.

    Also, seeing how the Zygarde Core and Cells operate in the English website, I have no doubt that Z is going to retread what Emerald did. Which is that they're going to have two legendaries cause disorder to the Kalos environment, and then use Zygarde to calm things down.
    Last edited by BurningWhiteKyurem; 14th September 2015 at 6:27 PM.

  19. #14769

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Though, this seems like it'll hint at possible Mega Evolutions for Kalosmons seeing how close this is to MegaEvo as a mechanic.
    What little we know so far seems to indicate it's anything but a traditional Mega Evolution. Given the text it seems like it's tied far more closely to whatever process created AZ's Floette.

    The question is less "is it a Mega Evolution?" and more whether it's meant to be a harbinger of some new game mechanic of Pokémon customization, or just an anime-only means of tying one of Ash's Pokémon to something we know we will probably be encountering in the games.


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  20. #14770
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    I believe it's actually going to be like Pokémon Platinum. In other words, Team Flare using both Pokémon for their own personal goals. After all, the roles of Xerneas and Yveltal within the games are essentially the same as each other, with the only real difference being Team Flare's motivations for using either of them, but what's to say they can't think up a third reason and try to use both Pokémon at the same time?

  21. #14771

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Also, seeing how the Zygarde Core and Cells operate in the English website, I have no doubt that Z is going to retread what Emerald did. Which is that they're going to have two legendaries cause disorder to the Kalos environment, and then use Zygarde to calm things down.
    I say that'd be great. That scenario would probably use zygarde's lore/origins to the best potential. Only problem is, team flare is the wild card, and I don't want them doing what they did in XY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    It'd be interesting if we could get Zygarde fairly early in the game, that'd be a nice way to shake up the formula. Like, maybe we could find 10% fairly early in the game (like around the 3rd gym) and then towards the end of the game when we visit Rt. 18 the first time, you go inside Terminus Cave and find more Cells where Zygarde was in XY and Zygarde turns into 50%, and then during the final battle with Team Flare, Zygarde turns into 100%. That would be really awesome.
    I really like this idea. It'd be cool if it was like a sort of second starter.
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  23. #14773
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    What little we know so far seems to indicate it's anything but a traditional Mega Evolution. Given the text it seems like it's tied far more closely to whatever process created AZ's Floette.

    The question is less "is it a Mega Evolution?" and more whether it's meant to be a harbinger of some new game mechanic of Pokémon customization, or just an anime-only means of tying one of Ash's Pokémon to something we know we will probably be encountering in the games.
    We don't actually know the process that created AZ's Floette is similar to Ash's Greninja. The lore only makes mention of Floette's history with AZ. However, for what all know, it could be the life machine that drastically transformed Floette's appearance, considering how Floette doesn't really share a resemblance to AZ in the same way that Greninja shares a resemblance to Ash.

    Though my point isn't about the whether Ash's Greninja is a Mega Evolution or not, I was trying to say that Ash's Greninja could very well imply that Greninja gets a Mega Evolution in the next game, amongst other Kalosmons advertised in the movie. I agree that this could be an anime-exclusive thing, or something like Spiky-Eared Pichu. But, I don't buy that Pokemon customization is going to be a thing, they made it a point that Greninja changes its appearance based on having a max bond with its trainer, rather than it being for purely cosmetic reasons.

  24. #14774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    I doubt we'll get to battle with Core and Cell, they don't seem to be their own Pokemon, rather just the components of 10%, 50%, and 100%.

    It'd be interesting if we could get Zygarde fairly early in the game, that'd be a nice way to shake up the formula. Like, maybe we could find 10% fairly early in the game (like around the 3rd gym) and then towards the end of the game when we visit Rt. 18 the first time, you go inside Terminus Cave and find more Cells where Zygarde was in XY and Zygarde turns into 50%, and then during the final battle with Team Flare, Zygarde turns into 100%. That would be really awesome.
    That would be a pretty nifty idea. The 'rescue the cover legendary of re-makes/sequel' has already been done two Gens in a row and would make for a nice twist.
    I'm glad too that the 10, 50, 100% components were explained again; I wasn't really clear at first with each stage before, and what it correlated with. Liking the high-res art as well. 8D
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    I don't see it mentioned in the previous page or two, but I have a suspicion that part of Z will be a fetch quest to track down the Zygarde cells so that the Core can progress through the stages. It mentions that the cells are found throughout the region and the Core can gather them, which sounds like the set up for way too many RPG fetch quests. Not that I think it's a bad thing, especially if it means we have a reason to retread some ground in Kalos that went under-utilized in X and Y. Here's looking at you, Power Point, Lost Hotel, etc.
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