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Thread: ~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

  1. #14926
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    yeah, their sales might only be huge instead of massive

  2. #14927
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    A bit off- topic but can anybody give a good reason for why GF decided to Make the Mouville Food Court challengeable once a day, while the Lumiose restaurants can be challenged anytime?

    It's this kind of strange decisions just surprise me. So, I would appreciate a logical reason...

    It's just that I like battle places to be able to be challenged anytime...
    Last edited by Boss1991; 22nd September 2015 at 2:44 AM.

  3. #14928
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    The numbers would have be very significant though and I think ORAS actually sold better than XY so this would have to be a pretty consistent and hard trend to probably make an impact on their bottom line
    Indeed, it would have to be significant. But I think it's a possibility if Masuda's words become GameFreak's development mentality for Gen VII-onwards.

    Also, I think XY still has a bit more sold than ORAS (makes sense considering the hype for XY vs. the hype for ORAS).

  4. #14929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    My issue with this interpretation is how it relates to the Battle Frontier specifically; I can accept the idea that Z will have some sort of new facility of some kind to separate it from XY, but the fact that BW2 included a World Tournament instead shouldn't be disregarded so casually (I don't know how many people picked up on this, since we're all so busy with smartphones and don't like things that are demanding and challenging, but the PWT is nothing like the BF in terms of implementation in the slightest).

    From what I've gathered from Masuda's bullsh*t, Battle Frontiers seem to be over and done with; personally, I'm expecting them to try to pull the PWT again, since people loved that so much the first time (and by "that," I mean insubstantial fanservice).
    Yes, the Pokemon World Tournament was smaller in scope than the Battle Frontier, and it is something along those lines that I'm expecting for Z due to the comments about the smart phone generation, but it is a replacement and, presumably, better than nothing. Personally, I actually enjoyed the World Tournament more than I ever would a Battle Frontier.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Except that's wrong. I've said it in the other threads, but you're still employing completely arbitrary logic.

    You state as if Emerald BF is the only thing that sets it apart from Ruby and Sapphire in terms of features. What about the fact that Emerald was the only game to feature two evil team storyline in the generation? What about being the first 3rd gen game where you can catch both mascot legendaries without trading? Not everything is solely tied to the Battle Frontier, after all that's two of the plentiful features that separate Emerald from being a simple Ruby/Sapphire rehash.

    The mental gymnastics is pretty staggering in regards to your comment about ORAS not needing to separate itself from the pack. You can say that HeartGold and SoulSilver had no need to separate itself from the other Pokemon games, but then why did GameFreak give it a Battle Frontier? Therefore, it makes no sense to say that ORAS has no need to separate itself. That's only based on what you think, and even then, the logic doesn't work. Because you're putting a lot of stock on Z having the Battle Frontier, when it makes more sense considering that Hoenn was the first region to use the Battle Frontier in the first place. Lastly, consider that both HGSS and Platinum had the same Frontier, yet now it's a problem if ORAS and Z has the same Frontier? I raised this point before and you still didn't provide a suitable answer aside from "because Z is a third game while ORAS is not."
    I never said that the Battle Frontier was the only thing to set apart Emerald. It was just one major factor. My logic is all about the logistics of game sales. The more a game has to set it apart from previous games, the better it will sell. The reason Z would have the Battle Frontier (or something similar) while Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire do not is because Z needs it more to separate itself. If they put the same Battle Frontier in both games, then it's possible not as many people would buy it. They would think that between having the general same game in the form of X or Y and already having the Battle Frontier in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, there isn't as much to entice them to buy Z. While if they wait to premier the Battle Frontier in Z, they do have that, as well as anything else new in Z, to entice potential buyers. Since Heart Gold/Soul Silver came after Platinum and its Battle Frontier, there was no reason not to put it in those games, it had already done its job for Platinum. Heart Gold/Soul Silver would have been fine on their own, but since Game Freak already had the asset and it wouldn't be detrimental to the sales of any other game, they decided to use it again.

    Yes, it would have been nice to see a Battle Frontier in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, but it makes sense that they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    I think you give people too much credit in regards to moving on. I refused to buy ORAS after hearing that the BF was not in (and I know others did the same too), and if Z continues the trend of post-game content being cut/decreased/etc. I'm not buying that game either, and I'm sure others share the same mentality. If that continues, I have to imagine that it'll make an impact on their bottom line as far as sales are concerned.
    I'm sorry, but that's really extreme. Do you play Pokemon only for the Battle Frontier?

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  5. #14930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    yeah, their sales might only be huge instead of massive
    Well it's hard to say exactly how much the sales will go down, but I'd wager that it'd at least dip below 10 million.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  6. #14931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Well it's hard to say exactly how much the sales will go down, but I'd wager that it'd at least dip below 10 million.
    I would be willing to wager that Z sells less than 10 million



    please ignore the fact that all the third versions since Crystal have sold under 10 million

  7. #14932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    June numbers put XY at 14 million and ORAS at 10.3 million (though that's normal for new generations vs remakes).
    Ah I was thinking at how quickly ORAS reached that number then, my mistake
    Probably ate the sales a bit

  8. #14933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    I never said that the Battle Frontier was the only thing to set apart Emerald. It was just one major factor. My logic is all about the logistics of game sales. The more a game has to set it apart from previous games, the better it will sell. The reason Z would have the Battle Frontier (or something similar) while Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire do not is because Z needs it more to separate itself. If they put the same Battle Frontier in both games, then it's possible not as many people would buy it. They would think that between having the general same game in the form of X or Y and already having the Battle Frontier in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, there isn't as much to entice them to buy Z. While if they wait to premier the Battle Frontier in Z, they do have that, as well as anything else new in Z, to entice potential buyers. Since Heart Gold/Soul Silver came after Platinum and its Battle Frontier, there was no reason not to put it in those games, it had already done its job for Platinum. Heart Gold/Soul Silver would have been fine on their own, but since Game Freak already had the asset and it wouldn't be detrimental to the sales of any other game, they decided to use it again.

    Yes, it would have been nice to see a Battle Frontier in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, but it makes sense that they didn't.
    Logistically speaking, it's difficult to assume that the Battle Frontier would increase sales merely because it set something different apart from the rest of the other games. We're talking about a series known for rehashing, and fans continually buy these games in spite of it. That being said, there are other features that are much more significant to Pokemon fans and buyers as being enough to buy the next game in the series. For instance, You have the complaints about Diamond and Pearl being utter garbage in terms of speed and graphical issues and Platinum fixing it as well as becoming the definitive 4th gen experience much like how Emerald was the definitive experience for the 3rd gen. For HGSS, the line is even more blurry because of nostalgia and the GBC games being technically inferior, as well as features that fans clamoured for the longest time such as following Pokemon. Not to mention, you have the brand power of Pokemon itself pretty much selling itself (in relation to the user base of the DS and the 3DS, particularly the 4th to 6th gens).

    That being said, I have a difficult time believing that not adding a BF or copying a BF from ORAS is gonna help or hurt Z's sales merely because Z has nothing to stand out. The logic disregards stuff that would automatically make Z stand out, such as the story and possibly smaller convenience features (like ORAS's DexNav). The closest comparable I can think of is the Battle Maison on a smaller scale. It was started in XY and then copied onto ORAS. People still bought the games even though they were stuck with a reference to a Battle Frontier and Battle Maison. In fact, the reasons that people gave for buying ORAS varied from stuff like M-Evos, to DexNav's inclusion, to even stuff like being nostalgic of Hoenn and wanting to re-explore it.

    Also, I disagree that it makes sense that it's left out. For a remake that was supposedly about celebrating the 3rd generation, to leave out the biggest and most noteworthy feature of the generation is illogical and strange to say the least. It especially doesn't make any sense to reserve it for Z when Kalos doesn't even have a relationship to Hoenn's Battle Frontier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    I'm sorry, but that's really extreme. Do you play Pokemon only for the Battle Frontier?
    No, I buy the games for its main story and the post-game content that follows. If the only thing I'm getting is a main story, and barely anything to do after then where's the incentive for me to buy the games? I mean, we all know online battling and breeding will eat up hours so it matters a lot that there's something to hook me onto playing the games after the main story is done. I learned that the hard way when I bought X on release day, after having so much fun with the content in Emerald, HeartGold, Black and Black 2 respectively (as far as what I played during each Gen is concerned).
    Last edited by BurningWhiteKyurem; 22nd September 2015 at 3:18 AM.

  9. #14934
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Logistically speaking, it's difficult to assume that the Battle Frontier would increase sales merely because it set something different apart from the rest of the other games. We're talking about a series known for rehashing, and fans continually buy these games in spite of it. That being said, there are other features that are much more significant to Pokemon fans and buyers as being enough to buy the next game in the series. For instance, You have the complaints about Diamond and Pearl being utter garbage in terms of speed and graphical issues and Platinum fixing it as well as becoming the definitive 4th gen experience much like how Emerald was the definitive experience for the 3rd gen. For HGSS, the line is even more blurry because of nostalgia and the GBC games being technically inferior, as well as features that fans clamoured for the longest time such as following Pokemon. Not to mention, you have the brand power of Pokemon itself pretty much selling itself (in relation to the user base of the DS and the 3DS, particularly the 4th to 6th gens).

    That being said, I have a difficult time believing that not adding a BF or copying a BF from ORAS is gonna help or hurt Z's sales merely because Z has nothing to stand out. The logic disregards stuff that would automatically make Z stand out, such as the story and possibly smaller convenience features (like ORAS's DexNav). The closest comparable I can think of is the Battle Maison on a smaller scale. It was started in XY and then copied onto ORAS. People still bought the games even though they were stuck with a reference to a Battle Frontier and Battle Maison. In fact, the reasons that people gave for buying ORAS varied from stuff like M-Evos, to DexNav's inclusion, to even stuff like being nostalgic of Hoenn and wanting to re-explore it.

    Also, I disagree that it makes sense that it's left out. For a remake that was supposedly about celebrating the 3rd generation, to leave out the biggest and most noteworthy feature of the generation is illogical and strange to say the least. It especially doesn't make any sense to reserve it for Z when Kalos doesn't even have a relationship to Hoenn's Battle Frontier.
    Admittedly, I have no evidence to back up my claim, and it really comes down to the mindset of the developers. Even if it doesn't make an appreciable difference, it's possible that they still think it's worth doing in that manner. It technically is one more thing to sell the game, and that's not a bad thing, so it makes sense. That's really all I can say without repeating myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    No, I buy the games for its main story and the post-game content that follows. If the only thing I'm getting is a main story, and barely anything to do after then where's the incentive for me to buy the games? I mean, we all know online battling and breeding will eat up hours so it matters a lot that I can eat up hours elsewhere in the game. I learned that the hard way when I bought X on release day, after having so much fun with the content in Emerald, HeartGold, Black and Black 2 respectively (as far as what I played during each Gen is concerned).
    Personally, I consider any post-game content to be purely a bonus, never expected. There are a lot of video games out there where once you beat it, it's over. I buy Pokemon games purely for the story, and then enjoy anything else as extra.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    Also, for news, reviews, info on my custom games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, a Special Episode, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing all of my custom Pokémon, complete with pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website.

  10. #14935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    I would be willing to wager that Z sells less than 10 million



    please ignore the fact that all the third versions since Crystal have sold under 10 million
    I'm talking about generation debuts, which typically sell around the 15+ range.
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  11. #14936
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    Even if ORAS sold more than XY games, I would favor XY games over ORAS anytime. At this point, the Battle Frontier is something I don't expect to return anytime soon which is a real shame. Since ORAS didn't have the BF, I don't see Z having it because it doesn't really belong there if it didn't appear in the region it originated. Anyway with Zygarde forms revealed this month, I expect Hoopa to be revealed in October and maybe Z announcement. I guess we didn't get a main game announcement because Super Mystery Dungeon came out this month for Japan and they didn't want to shift the focus off of it.
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  12. #14937
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    Next year is the 20th Anniversary. I'm sure they have big things planned for us. I have my fingers crossed for them releasing the game(s) on the 27th of February, same day as Red and Green were released in Japan. We'll get Hoopa probably during Halloween, seems fitting.
    Volcanion may as well get a side-story in Z to not make it lack-luster.


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  13. #14938

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberBlaziken View Post
    I have my fingers crossed for them releasing the game(s) on the 27th of February, same day as Red and Green were released in Japan.
    This is unlikely on a number of levels, chief among them that they aren't going to be beholden to an anniversary date like that when there are far better places in the calendar to position a key release than in late February.


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  14. #14939
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    Considering they took a whole year off, I'm sure any time during next year will do them just fine.
    And besides, I want more Spin-offs next year. I do hope we get some more, wouldn't mind a new Ranger game at all.


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  15. #14940
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberBlaziken View Post
    Next year is the 20th Anniversary. I'm sure they have big things planned for us. I have my fingers crossed for them releasing the game(s) on the 27th of February, same day as Red and Green were released in Japan. We'll get Hoopa probably during Halloween, seems fitting.
    Volcanion may as well get a side-story in Z to not make it lack-luster.
    Exactly what I was going to say. Guys, it is the 20th Anniversary! They are most definitely going to make something to surprise us, or in their terms, make a huge amount of money. Including something like PWT in Pokemon Z is reasonable to expect because it is the 20th Anniversary.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    This is unlikely on a number of levels, chief among them that they aren't going to be beholden to an anniversary date like that when there are far better places in the calendar to position a key release than in late February.
    So, when do you think the release will be?
    I mean, in this last months they can't stop saying to us that it is the 20th anniversary, and they build everything around that fact. It would be symbolic that they make the release on 27th Feb, and it is very clear they are going to make a release in February.
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  16. #14941
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    Why argue about whether or not the Kalos games would get the Battle Frontier? We don't know what's on the developer's minds, and it's entirely possible for them to change their minds about whether or not to include the Battle Frontier or something else entirely.

    "Disrespectful to fans"? In reality, disrespectful to the vocal minority. Can you really speak for all the fans in existence whether or not they'll feel disrespected if Gamefreak changes their mind and adds the Battle Frontier to Pokémon Z? Besides, as I said, we don't know the developer's minds as it's entirely possible they are willing to "disrespect the fans" in this regard. You guys must also remember that Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are both largely based off of the originals with only a few Emerald-related stuff within it (mostly within the Delta Episode which implies that the features exclusive to Emerald are still in developement in-universe or has yet to come to pass), so story-wise, it actually makes sense for the Hoenn Battle Frontier to not be available within the remakes (as it's not even finished by the time the games take place. Even Hoenn's original Battle Tower's stated to be under construction as the first facility to be built).

    In the end, as the others pointed out, next year is their 20th anniversary, so it's entirely possible they may add features to the game in celebration of it.

  17. #14942
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    Honestly, the Delta Episode wasn't enough.
    Ruby/Sapphire always had a weak storyline and Emerald succeeded in every area it failed storywise. It wouldn't have been difficult at all to base ORAS off of Emerald while retaining their respective gimmick however they opted to base it originals while shoehorning in Mega Evolution (which is still a feature no one asked for yet customization was but was left out because "reasons"). The fact the Battle Frontier was created in Gen 3 and yet isn't present in a game based off of them it's just the cherry on top of why ORAS is a poor remake.

    Hence why I said I don't think GF considers third versions to be the definitive.

  18. #14943
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    ORAS remakes were what they were supposed to be. I'm happy about it, and it brought back memories. The reason it was made. Sure the BF was missing, but we haven't had one in quite a while now. Though I'm not sure if Pokemon and DLC's work, as the 'Coming Soon' sign was a big tease.


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  19. #14944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    Honestly, the Delta Episode wasn't enough.
    Ruby/Sapphire always had a weak storyline and Emerald succeeded in every area it failed storywise. It wouldn't have been difficult at all to base ORAS off of Emerald while retaining their respective gimmick however they opted to base it originals while shoehorning in Mega Evolution (which is still a feature no one asked for yet customization was but was left out because "reasons"). The fact the Battle Frontier was created in Gen 3 and yet isn't present in a game based off of them it's just the cherry on top of why ORAS is a poor remake.

    Hence why I said I don't think GF considers third versions to be the definitive.
    So because GF opted to make OR and AS distinct from one another (and, you know, actually remakes of the games they're named after) instead of making both of them remakes of Emerald with little to distinguish them, they're poor remakes? Don't get me wrong, I'm right behind you on the Battle Frontier (I've never gotten much use out of it myself, but it's definitely a shame not to see it). But regardless of the strength of Ruby and Sapphire's stories, I can't see why using Emerald's story for both is the preferable scenario.

  20. #14945
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    I wouldn't mind not having a good battle facility if the actual game offered some challenge, but it doesn't, not even with the exp. share turned off. If they are going to make every trainer a pushover, they could at least give us the postgame to have some fun with.

    Anyway, i think some people are forgetting that they can make something even better than the Battle Frontier. I liked most of the Battle frontier's facilities, but there are certainly a few that are incredibly boring and frustating like the Battle Palace. Also the rewards for completing it suck! I do not want a stupid stamp for defeating a Frontier Brain, you can give something better! It's like receiving a stupid piece of paper for completing the pokedex.

  21. #14946
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberBlaziken View Post
    ORAS remakes were what they were supposed to be. I'm happy about it, and it brought back memories. The reason it was made. Sure the BF was missing, but we haven't had one in quite a while now. Though I'm not sure if Pokemon and DLC's work, as the 'Coming Soon' sign was a big tease.
    DLC probably won't work since the games aren't designed with it in mind, it's for that reason why I'm sure if there are new forms/Megas in the next game they'll be incompatible with ORAS just like XY was before.


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  22. #14947
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    Nah, it was a darn challenge to get both the silver and gold symbols. The hours wasted on it. Sheesh. Memories I'm glad I didn't have to relive tbh.


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  23. #14948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvixer View Post
    Guys, it is the 20th Anniversary!
    this really isn't that big of a milestone for them to change their plans beyond whatever they were already going to do

    I feel like this is an argument that's five years too soon

  24. #14949
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    20th Anniversary not for big changes, but excitement because we can expect some good stuff from them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvixer View Post
    It would be symbolic that they make the release on 27th Feb
    We're three sets of remakes in now - the one place where it might actually make sense to consider things like anniversary dates - and they've never once felt themselves beholden to ultimately meaningless things like that. That's not an accident. Start locking yourself to "anniversary dates" and you find your products released on odd days at inopportune times of the calendar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvixer View Post
    and it is very clear they are going to make a release in February.
    That's not "very clear" at all. There's nothing from any source or at any stage to have indicated that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    however they opted to base it originals while shoehorning in Mega Evolution (which is still a feature no one asked for yet customization was but was left out because "reasons")
    Claims of whether anyone did or didn't "ask" for anything have never held weight. It's not dependent on "asking" for anything, particularly as they don't care what we "ask" for nor should they.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    it's just the cherry on top of why ORAS is a poor remake.
    Sorry you didn't like it, but nearly a year later is "well, these games didn't check off every box that was on my pre-release wish list, so I'm going to judge them on that basis and continue declaring them 'bad' and 'failed' and 'poor'" still the train people are attempting to board?


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