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Thread: ~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

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    I'm very surprised with some comments and I'm becoming more and more convinced, that ORAS is seriously underrated, and most likely will continue being underrated until time passes and people judge it with better perspective. (It happened to me with B/W).

    However, I must say that I'm really surprised with some fans' personal bias...

    For example, HGSS adds a storyline from Crystal about Eusine and Suicune and it is considered a brilliant decission.

    But then ORAS adds a BRAND NEW, original and exclusive storyline about the brand new Mega Rayquaza, and Deoxys, and you even visit SPACE... and some people are criticizing it and wanting back Emerald's MUCH more predictable (and already seen) storyline!
    Last edited by Boss1991; 25th September 2015 at 4:24 AM.

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    I don't think people have much issues with the story. It's more on the fact why the Battle Maison stands instead of the Battle Frontier.

    The way I see it, Emerald, the last GBA game, had it's unique BF. And it was done there.
    In Gen IV, we got it in Platinum, 2 whole years after Diamond/Pearl. Giving the developers ample amount of time to create a whole new BF. HG/SS came a year later, and reused the Platinum BF, since they didn't bother with changing things.
    In Gen V, their own Battles Facilities, and the PWT in the sequels. No remakes in this Gen.
    Finally in Gen VI, we had the Battle Maison in X/Y. We got OR/AS a year later, and they just went with the Battle Maison. If the remake stood 2 years apart from X/Y, I think the developers would've taken the time to recreate the Battle Frontier as well. I think they skipped BF for Delta Quest, in regards to Emerald.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    What I was trying to say before is that doing that just wouldn't work. Crystal didn't interfere with Gold and Silver's story, but Emerald can't coexist with Ruby and Sapphire. It just isn't possible without a complete re-imagination, and a complete re-imagination would ruin the point of a remake. While Emerald was the superior game by far, the point of these games were to be Ruby/Sapphire remakes.
    It doesn't need to be as easy as C was to HGSS, but I find it hard to believe that E can't co-exist with RS. I think it can work with minor tweaking. I understand the point of the remakes, but I also see remakes as something that makes the old games obsolete because of how definitive they are within the 3rd gen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Ho-oh and Lugia were the first case of Legendaries being cover Pokemon. Back when they put them in Gold and Silver they just hadn't yet considered the fact that they should be exclusive, so they were both put into both games as a result, and Heart Gold/Soul Silver by extension. Outside of this one exception, they'll probably never make cover legendaries available in the opposite game.
    Except they could've made an exception in this case. We've already seen that in terms of 3rd editions, plus a remake is supposed to be the definitive edition of a generation. Frankly, I don't see any harm in taking that aspect of Emerald where you can catch both Kyogre and Groudon and putting in the game. After all, with the advent of the GTS, more legendaries being available in ORAS and even HGSS for that matter, as well as illegal methods that I can't mention, GameFreak can't really fall back on the "buy more for exclusive content" excuse especially when current-gen transferring is a thing. I get that it helps with sales, but then again, Pokemon is so huge now that I can't see any game not selling well barring a really bad effort on GameFreak's part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    I don't think I disagree with anything you said here, which is why I said that when you get down to it Emerald's approach is still better. Ultimately what it comes down to for me is, if made to choose between complete faithfulness to Emerald at the expense of individuality between the two games and some faithfulness to Emerald while keeping the games distinct from one another, I'm inclined to go with the latter.

    I only have Bulbapedia quotes to go off of because my memory of RS is shoddy at best in most areas, but if I recall the team you align with in RS is more about simply stopping the other team than pushing their own agenda. That's no longer the case in ORAS, where both are (were) clearly pushing their own agendas until Zinnia gave one of them a leg up.

    As for the whole meteorite business, I don't see exactly what the issue here is. Debate on how well written it is aside, is there any reason exactly why there shouldn't have been a meteor involved?
    No, you didn't. I just wanted to go in depth. I understood your POV clearly and I agree with everything you raised. I guess it's an issue of taste, I don't think they need to be 100% faithful to Emerald, but some more aspects of Emerald taken into ORAS would've been fine.

    As for your last point, I was debating Auraninja's point about the meteor being a high-stakes cost, I just don't think it's necessary. I think having the legendaries' conflict is simple enough and still worth exploring given that Emerald and ORAS only briefly touched on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    I'm very surprised with some comments and I'm becoming more and more convinced, that ORAS is seriously underrated, and most likely will continue being underrated until time passes and people judge it with better perspective.

    However, I must say that I'm really surprised with some fans' personal bias... For example, HGSS adds a storyline from Crystal about Eusine and Suicune and it can s brilliant. ORAS adds a BRAND NEW original and exclusive storyline, and people are criticizing it. Incredible.
    Delta Episode and the Eusine plotlines aren't comparable. Eusine is there to accompany the player character and gives context to Suicune and the Johto Folklore as a whole during your journey. Makes sense considering that the theming of Gen II games are about tradition and legends. The problem with Delta Episode is that they're glorified fetch quests, and IMO it's terribly boring. It isn't until you get a chance to catch Rayquaza and Deoxys that it becomes interesting. That's not exactly good design when it comes to creating a post-game story. Another problem I have is that it's extremely short for a post-game story, but that's likely because I'm used to long post-game sessions in Pokemon and other games.

    The bias argument can be applied to you and other people who like Delta Episode too, so it's pointless to call each other on biases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    I'm very surprised with some comments and I'm becoming more and more convinced, that ORAS is seriously underrated, and most likely will continue being underrated until time passes and people judge it with better perspective. (It happened to me with B/W).

    However, I must say that I'm really surprised with some fans' personal bias...

    For example, HGSS adds a storyline from Crystal about Eusine and Suicune and it is considered a brilliant decission.

    But then ORAS adds a BRAND NEW, original and exclusive storyline about the brand new Mega Rayquaza, and Deoxys, and you even visit SPACE... and some people are criticizing it and wanting back Emerald's MUCH more predictable (and already seen) storyline!

    What people criticize isn't the addition of new features it's the removal/exclusion of old ones. And this is something Game Freak seems to do, take one step forward and two steps back in terms of features. That and most people dislike the difficulty or lack thereof. True, Pokemon games have never been know for their difficulty but they have never been as easy as this, with the exception of X and Y. Pokemon is becoming more accessible to not use the word casual, when it's already accessible enough already. Admittedly I preferred ORAS over X and Y for certain reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    It doesn't need to be as easy as C was to HGSS, but I find it hard to believe that E can't co-exist with RS. I think it can work with minor tweaking. I understand the point of the remakes, but I also see remakes as something that makes the old games obsolete because of how definitive they are within the 3rd gen.



    Except they could've made an exception in this case. We've already seen that in terms of 3rd editions, plus a remake is supposed to be the definitive edition of a generation. Frankly, I don't see any harm in taking that aspect of Emerald where you can catch both Kyogre and Groudon and putting in the game. After all, with the advent of the GTS, more legendaries being available in ORAS and even HGSS for that matter, as well as illegal methods that I can't mention, GameFreak can't really fall back on the "buy more for exclusive content" excuse especially when current-gen transferring is a thing. I get that it helps with sales, but then again, Pokemon is so huge now that I can't see any game not selling well barring a really bad effort on GameFreak's part.



    No, you didn't. I just wanted to go in depth. I understood your POV clearly and I agree with everything you raised. I guess it's an issue of taste, I don't think they need to be 100% faithful to Emerald, but some more aspects of Emerald taken into ORAS would've been fine.

    As for your last point, I was debating Auraninja's point about the meteor being a high-stakes cost, I just don't think it's necessary. I think having the legendaries' conflict is simple enough and still worth exploring given that Emerald and ORAS only briefly touched on it.



    Delta Episode and the Eusine plotlines aren't comparable. Eusine is there to accompany the player character and gives context to Suicune and the Johto Folklore as a whole during your journey. Makes sense considering that the theming of Gen II games are about tradition and legends. The problem with Delta Episode is that they're glorified fetch quests, and IMO it's terribly boring. It isn't until you get a chance to catch Rayquaza and Deoxys that it becomes interesting. That's not exactly good design when it comes to creating a post-game story. Another problem I have is that it's extremely short for a post-game story, but that's likely because I'm used to long post-game sessions in Pokemon and other games.

    The bias argument can be applied to you and other people who like Delta Episode too, so it's pointless to call each other on biases.
    The bias argument can´t be applied to me, because I am more or less EQUALLY biased towards ALL pokemon games. There is not a single game I dislike. I like them all, and you will not hear me criticizing a pokemon game like you guys are criticizing ORAS. You gus are acting as it should´ve been the perfect game, when no pokemon game really is.

    About the Delta Espisode, it is a very good post game, very well thought, and not short, if you play it normally, instead of rushing through it.

    I´m not angry or annoyed, don´t get me wrong... I am just very surprised with how critical somepeople can be with a franchise they are supposed to be fans of...
    Last edited by Boss1991; 25th September 2015 at 4:56 AM.

  6. #15056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    I'm very surprised with some comments and I'm becoming more and more convinced, that ORAS is seriously underrated, and most likely will continue being underrated until time passes and people judge it with better perspective. (It happened to me with B/W).

    However, I must say that I'm really surprised with some fans' personal bias...

    For example, HGSS adds a storyline from Crystal about Eusine and Suicune and it is considered a brilliant decission.

    But then ORAS adds a BRAND NEW, original and exclusive storyline about the brand new Mega Rayquaza, and Deoxys, and you even visit SPACE... and some people are criticizing it and wanting back Emerald's MUCH more predictable (and already seen) storyline!
    I think you're misinterpreting criticism of the intent and criticism of the content. I don't hear that many (if any) criticize the Delta Episode for being there, hell, a lot of people liked the idea. The problem with the sidequest was more the way it was executed, which admittedly did have some issues. It doesn't add anything in terms of new areas, so you're just doing a glorified fetch quest around the region rather then exploring anything new along the lines of HGSS' Kanto or the Sevii Islands, and the story had some issues such as pacing (you really don't get going until halfway through) and Zinnia's actions (which have been a point of contention in and of themselves). For some, while they liked the idea, it could've been better developed, and hopefully the mistakes made here can be improved for the next game just like how some of the ideas from Emma/Looker's sidequest were used for the Delta Episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    The bias argument can´t be applied to me, because I am more or less EQUALLY biased towards ALL pokemon games. There is not a single game I dislike. I like them all, and you will not hear me criticizing a pokemon game like you guys are criticizing ORAS. You gus are acting as it should´ve been the perfect game, when no pokemon game really is.

    About the Delta Espisode, it is a very good post game, very well thought, and not short, if you play it normally, instead of rushing through it.

    I´m not angry or annoyed, don´t get me wrong... I am just very surprised with how critical somepeople can be with a franchise they are supposed to be fans of...
    Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean you can't criticize it, no game is perfect and there are going to be flaws in them that could be addressed for the next one, so it's never a bad thing to point them out as long as you're civil about them. For instance, I liked Fire Emblem Awakening and it's easily the most successful of the Fire Emblem franchise, but there were a number of issues many people including me had with the gameplay and it was brought up. The developers took note of it and fixed most of those issues with the gameplay with the next game Fates. If we didn't cite what flaws we found, we would've just gotten a repeat of the same mistakes in Fates, but instead noting the flaws allowed the developers to make a better game and many appreciate the time they took to improve on those gameplay flaws (story-wise is a different story, but that's a completely different issue).
    Last edited by Taodragon; 25th September 2015 at 5:01 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    The bias argument can´t be applied to me, because I am more or less EQUALLY biased towards ALL pokemon games. There is not a single game I dislike. I like them all. However, a few guys here, are particularly negatively biased towards ORAS and are acting as it should´ve been the perfect game, when no pokemon game is.

    About the Delta Espisode, it is a very high quality storyline, even for someone not too keen about story elements in Pokemon...
    That makes no sense, even if you like the games, you're still positively biased. So the argument applies to you too. You're the one calling people out for making criticisms, without realizing that people have the ability to like and dislike whatever they want. Additionally, there's the problem. You assume criticism = negative bias, when the common sense idea about criticism is that people found problems about the game. You can disagree about the criticism, but to call someone biased is illogical and facile, considering that exposes your bias toward the games.

    Also, let's not grasp at straws. I said the story criticisms I had were related to writing issues I had with the game. That had nothing to do with being "not keen about story elements in Pokemon." Criticizing the story =! "not keen about story elements."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    I think you're misinterpreting criticism of the intent and criticism of the content. I don't hear that many (if any) criticize the Delta Episode for being there, hell, a lot of people liked the idea. The problem with the sidequest was more the way it was executed, which admittedly did have some issues. It doesn't add anything in terms of new areas, so you're just doing a glorified fetch quest around the region rather then exploring anything new along the lines of HGSS' Kanto or the Sevii Islands, and the story had some issues such as pacing (you really don't get going until halfway through) and Zinnia's actions (which have been a point of contention in and of themselves). For some, while they liked the idea, it could've been better developed, and hopefully the mistakes made here can be improved for the next game just like how some of the ideas from Emma/Looker's sidequest were used for the Delta Episode.
    I´m sorry but it is quite obvious that Johto had Kanto because Johto is small, and Kanto had the Sevi´s because Kanto was even smaller. Hoenn is the biggest, or second biggest region in Pokemon, and I don´t know how much more new areas you want to explore. It is enormous for Pokemon standards. Even so, they have made it so you can also explore the ocean, AND the Sky. Plus the small Mirage Spots, and more new Secret Bases... I really don´t know how much more areas do people want.
    Last edited by Boss1991; 25th September 2015 at 5:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    Hoennis the biggest, or second biggest region in Pokemon, and I don´t know how much more new areas you want to explore. It is enormous for Pokemon standards. Even so, they have mede it so you can also explore the ocean.
    You do know why that is right? Oh wait you explained it in your post. Explore the ocean.......

    Hoenn is surrounded by large amonts of water, more so than any other region.

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    So, in short, my complaining about people criticizing the game, is not for people being critic, I myself am too. My complaints are because ALL that you guys are saying is negative stuff about ORAS, and not mentioning the good parts AT ALL.

    Whatever though, respect...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorocario View Post
    You do know why that is right? Oh wait you explained it in your post. Explore the ocean.......

    Hoenn is surrounded by large amonts of water, more so than any other region.
    Yes it is. And that adds extra exploration...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    So, in short, my complaining about people criticizing the game, is not for people being critic, I myself am too. My complaints are because ALL that you guys are saying is negative stuff about ORAS, and not mentioning the good parts AT ALL.

    Whatever though, respect...
    For me personally, even if there are positives to a game, as long as the negatives outweigh the positives for me, then I'm not going to hold the game to high regard. I'm sure people have different ways of judging positives and negatives too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    ALL that you guys are saying is negative stuff about ORAS, and not mentioning the good parts AT ALL.
    Wow, way to generalize buddy.

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    I'm surprised this thread's title hasn't been changed to ~Official ORAS Complaint Thread~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss1991 View Post
    So, in short, my complaining about people criticizing the game, is not for people being critic, I myself am too. My complaints are because ALL that you guys are saying is negative stuff about ORAS, and not mentioning the good parts AT ALL.

    Whatever though, respect...
    The reason people are talking about the negatives is that the conversation shifted into talking about the negatives, that's really about it. That's not to say there aren't positives with ORAS, it just wasn't the focus of this particular discussion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillachu View Post
    I'm surprised this thread's title hasn't been changed to ~Official ORAS Complaint Thread~
    People aren't complaining about ORAS, they are addressing its issues.

    I honestly don't see why people are getting so upset over fair criticisms and evaluations of a product people have purchased and have the right to evaluate. Maybe its because some people cant take it when something they hold dear comes under fire. For some things its understandable but this is just a game.
    Last edited by Akwakwak; 25th September 2015 at 6:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorocario View Post
    People aren't complaining about ORAS, they are addressing its issues.
    And an ORAS discussion section exists.

    Let's at least TRY to keep it relevant to the News, people.
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    Back on topic: This month covered new forms of Zygarde, Pokemon Go and the release of Super Mystery Dungeon. I really don't like Pokemon Go showing up but Super Mystery Dungeon was going to have attention for this month which meant no new main series game this month. I am guessing that next month would release Hoopa outside of Japan and possibly the new main series game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
    Back on topic: This month covered new forms of Zygarde, Pokemon Go and the release of Super Mystery Dungeon. I really don't like Pokemon Go showing up but Super Mystery Dungeon was going to have attention for this month which meant no new main series game this month. I am guessing that next month would release Hoopa outside of Japan and possibly the new main series game.
    Can't wait to see how many idiots are run over because they weren't paying attention due to the fact that they were trying to catch a Jigglypuff. I saw the trailer for Pokemon Go and I hope that they made it so Pokemon don't "appear" in the middle of roads and alleys because those are some of the most dangerous places to do these activities in. And I'm sure we are going to have accidents, it happens. I hope we don't, that would be ideal but some people don't always think all the way through. "Like yeah let me walk into this shady neighborhood and head into this alley in the middle of the night to catch this watchamacallit" and then you get robbed. Do you know how ridiculous that will sound to the police? It's going to happen I guarantee it will.

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    I don't know if the award for "funniest overreaction to Pokémon GO" is given out on the spot or if we have to, like, put it to a committee, but you have my vote. Bravo.


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    Official News? Let's make it the Official Complain Thread.

    I hope the next issue of CoroCoro covers more on XY&Z or the new game. Either would be satisfying, both would be excellent.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Yeah, that is the case. Maybe I should rephrase what I meant. I'm just not necessarily a fan of seeing the different bits of culture and stereotypes that the games become themed after. In Gens 1-4, even though the regions were based off of real-world locations, it didn't necessarily feel like it because they didn't go out of their way to make a giant Pokemon version of Paris or New York City, or incorporate other references such as characters speaking French.
    haha, yes It would be fun to see a region based on Germany, what kind of sick Pokemon contest they would have. xD
    Also Germany is the biggest EU market and country.

    But you are right, Pokemon games have a huge problem with stereotypes, in some cases it is even chauvinistic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvixer View Post
    haha, yes It would be fun to see a region based on Germany, what kind of sick Pokemon contest they would have. xD
    Also Germany is the biggest EU market and country.

    But you are right, Pokemon games have a huge problem with stereotypes, in some cases it is even chauvinistic.
    Stereotypes are never a problem if they're done right. Check out Punchout for the Wii, for example. They've actually made the previously (or retroactively) stereotypical characters likable in those games in spite of still technically being stereotypes. And then there's the European comic Asterix the Gaul, popular everywhere except USA and Japan (where they're considered obscure there). That comic series' infamous for using French stereotypes to represent other nations, with certain comics even being popular within countries the comics portrays.

    I don't think the Pokémon games are meant to correlate on a 1:1 scale with the real world. After all, 4 areas of Japan are considered separate regions in-universe, complete with sharing similar (but not quite the same) cultures. Out of all of these, only Kanto's named after its real life equivalent (but even then, the cities within it aren't).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarjamP View Post
    Stereotypes are never a problem if they're done right. Check out Punchout for the Wii, for example. They've actually made the previously (or retroactively) stereotypical characters likable in those games in spite of still technically being stereotypes. And then there's the European comic Asterix the Gaul, popular everywhere except USA and Japan (where they're considered obscure there). That comic series' infamous for using French stereotypes to represent other nations, with certain comics even being popular within countries the comics portrays.

    I don't think the Pokémon games are meant to correlate on a 1:1 scale with the real world. After all, 4 areas of Japan are considered separate regions in-universe, complete with sharing similar (but not quite the same) cultures. Out of all of these, only Kanto's named after its real life equivalent (but even then, the cities within it aren't).
    I was not saying that. I just said that Pokemon games have problems with it. Asterix is great and does the best with it also like the TV series Allo Allo, it does great things with stereotypes.
    And I was not saying that the Pokemon games has problems with nations, but you missunderstood, it has problems with some Pokemon like Jynx and Gothitelle, and so on.
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    If we're going for another country-based region. I wouldn't mind Germany or Italy getting the green light. UK is fine too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberBlaziken View Post
    If we're going for another country-based region. I wouldn't mind Germany or Italy getting the green light. UK is fine too.
    Germany would really have some dark stuff. xD
    But is Kalos is a "remake of Kanto", then maybe the next gen will be in a neighboring region. Who knows.
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