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Thread: Mono Steel Team.

  1. #1
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    Default Mono Steel Team.

    Right.

    I'm apparently a Gym Leader in some league thing or another, and I'm supposed to make my team in accordance to these special rules:
    Mono type - NO WILD CARDS.
    Item Clause.
    ONE legendary only. (I know right?)

    This is a Wi-Fi team, not a Shoddy Battle one.

    So with that, here they are:

    Metagross

    Adamant @ Shuca Berry (Clear Body)
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Meteor Mash
    ThunderPunch
    Earthquake
    Bullet Punch

    Good old Metagross... This thing has saved me time and time again, I honestly don't want to change a thing as it does perfectly whenever I use it... I really have no niggles with it. Powerful, physically offensive lead. Shuca Berry let's it take most Earthquakes at least once and get in some nice surprise kills.

    *****

    Skarmory

    Impish @ Shed Shell (Keen Eye)
    252 HP / 96 Atk / 156 Def / 4 Spe

    Spikes
    Roost
    Whirlwind
    Drill Peck

    Standard Skarm, need I say more?

    *****

    Empoleon

    Calm @ Wise Glasses (Torrent)
    252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Grass Knot
    Toxic

    Special Wall that can bring on some pain. Pretty solid at what he does, quite like it.

    *****

    Bronzong

    Sassy @ Leftovers (Levitate)
    252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD

    Gyro Ball
    Stealth Rock
    Hypnosis
    Earthquake

    Another physical wall, but with a bit of status support and a spare spiker. Good old mean Bronzong hurts and helps things. Hard to wear down.

    *****

    Heatran

    Modest @ Choice Scarf (Flash Fire)
    20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe

    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    Explosion

    Revenge killing beastie. Absorbs fire and hurts things.

    *****

    Magnezone

    Timid @ Expert Belt (Magnet Pull)
    20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe

    Discharge
    Flash Cannon
    HP Ice/Magnet Rise/Explosion
    Metal Sound

    Somewhat a special attacker, more offensively focused then Empoleon (duh).

    Went with Discharge to deal damage and have a high chance of paralysis. Decided not to go with the Bolt/Wave combo, since Maggy needs as many turns as it can get.



    ******************************



    Thinking of throwing Forretress in there somewhere, will be using this set if I do:

    Forretress

    Relaxed @ Occa Berry (Sturdy)
    252 HP / 162 Atk / 96 Def

    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Gyro Ball
    Earthquake

    Spin and Spike, weaken other things down.


    Generally they have their roles, and they do them well. Just looking for any pointers and such. Also, yes, I have a weakness to fire. . . I know. This is because it's a mono-Steel team :3

    Don't have access to Platinum moves, and HP is gonna prove difficult to get so I'd appreciate alternatives to it.

    Basically, just any ideas on what needs tweaking, changing etc.
    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Darkfall; 3rd December 2008 at 4:39 PM.

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    I assume you aren't using Dialga because it is the OU tier you are dealing with.

    I still don't like that Heatran set, it is way too obvious and Explosion isn't going to help you very much. Modest + 252 SpA EV's makes Explosion not as powerful as it could be. For example you could have those 20 HP EVs in Atk. It all helps. Then change the nature to something like Rash or whatever the Defense lowering equivalent is, even though it makes Ground moves hit harder. I know you can't have HP Ice (if you PM me the Stats and level I will be able to work it out using Shoddy, which automatically tells me what type HP is).

    This is the set I use:

    Heatran@Choice Scarf
    Abilty:flash fire
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (I know, boring but it works)
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    HP Ice

    but that is not the point. If you are going for Explosion then change to Life Orb and Rash with 20 Atk EV's if you want that Explosion to do any PROPER explosion damage, or a Petaya berry to improve the attack stat when you get low HP, the time you may be wanting to use Explosion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomstarRule View Post
    I assume you aren't using Dialga because it is the OU tier you are dealing with.

    I still don't like that Heatran set, it is way too obvious and Explosion isn't going to help you very much. Modest + 252 SpA EV's makes Explosion not as powerful as it could be. For example you could have those 20 HP EVs in Atk. It all helps. Then change the nature to something like Rash or whatever the Defense lowering equivalent is, even though it makes Ground moves hit harder. I know you can't have HP Ice (if you PM me the Stats and level I will be able to work it out using Shoddy, which automatically tells me what type HP is).

    This is the set I use:

    Heatran@Choice Scarf
    Abilty:flash fire
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (I know, boring but it works)
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    HP Ice

    but that is not the point. If you are going for Explosion then change to Life Orb and Rash with 20 Atk EV's if you want that Explosion to do any PROPER explosion damage, or a Petaya berry to improve the attack stat when you get low HP, the time you may be wanting to use Explosion.
    huh, having both HP ice and dragon pluse on heatran is a bit meh... IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    huh, having both HP ice and dragon pluse on heatran is a bit meh... IMO
    Agreed. Dragon, Fire, and Ground will cover everything for at least neutral damage, so leave it at that. If you were to use any Hidden Power at all in place of Explosion then it should be Grass. That would let you land in stronger hits on the Water-types that often come in against Heatran.

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    Suppose, Ice is the type I have on my Heatran and It will take a long time to find another one (not Shoddy).
    I will Rule

    Pinsir is one of the best UU pokemon out there. It can be devastating in the wrong hands. That is why I have claimed it. Because those hands are mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfall View Post
    Right.

    I'm apparently a Gym Leader in some league thing or another, and I'm supposed to make my team in accordance to these special rules:
    Mono type - NO WILD CARDS.
    Item Clause.
    ONE legendary only. (I know right?)

    This is a Wi-Fi team, not a Shoddy Battle one.

    So with that, here they are:

    Metagross

    Adamant @ Shuca Berry (Clear Body)
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Meteor Mash
    ThunderPunch
    Earthquake
    Agility

    Good old Metagross... This thing has saved me time and time again, I honestly don't want to change a thing as it does perfectly whenever I use it... I really have no niggles with it. Powerful, physically offensive lead. Shuca Berry let's it take most Earthquakes at least once and get in some nice surprise kills.

    *****

    Skarmory

    Impish @ Shed Shell (Keen Eye)
    252 HP / 96 Atk / 156 Def / 4 Spe

    Spikes
    Roost
    Whirlwind
    Drill Peck

    Standard Skarm, need I say more?

    *****

    Empoleon

    Calm @ Wise Glasses (Torrent)
    252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Grass Knot/Protect
    Toxic

    Special Wall that can bring on some pain. Pretty solid at what he does, quite like it.It can also stall by using protect when the foe is poisoned.

    *****

    Bronzong

    Sassy @ Leftovers (Levitate)
    252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD

    Gyro Ball
    Stealth Rock
    Hypnosis
    Earthquake

    Another physical wall, but with a bit of status support and a spare spiker. Good old mean Bronzong hurts and helps things. Hard to wear down.

    *****

    Heatran

    Modest @ Choice Scarf (Flash Fire)
    20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe

    Flamethrower/La
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    Explosion

    Revenge killing beastie. Absorbs fire and hurts things.

    *****

    Magnezone

    Timid @ Expert Belt (Magnet Pull)
    20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe

    Discharge
    Flash Cannon
    HP Ice
    Thunder Wave

    Somewhat a special attacker, more offensively focused then Empoleon (duh).

    Went with Discharge to deal damage and have a high chance of paralysis. Decided not to go with the Bolt/Wave combo, since Maggy needs as many turns as it can get.



    ******************************



    Thinking of throwing Forretress in there somewhere, will be using this set if I do:

    Forretress

    Relaxed @ Occa Berry (Sturdy)
    252 HP / 162 Atk / 96 Def

    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Gyro Ball
    Earthquake

    Spin and Spike, weaken other things down.


    Generally they have their roles, and they do them well. Just looking for any pointers and such. Also, yes, I have a weakness to fire. . . I know. This is because it's a mono-Steel team :3

    Don't have access to Platinum moves, and HP is gonna prove difficult to get so I'd appreciate alternatives to it.

    Basically, just any ideas on what needs tweaking, changing etc.
    Thanks in advance.
    Don't put in Forretress... Your team is pretty solid except for some moves. Hope I helped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomstarRule View Post
    I assume you aren't using Dialga because it is the OU tier you are dealing with.

    I still don't like that Heatran set, it is way too obvious and Explosion isn't going to help you very much. Modest + 252 SpA EV's makes Explosion not as powerful as it could be. For example you could have those 20 HP EVs in Atk. It all helps. Then change the nature to something like Rash or whatever the Defense lowering equivalent is, even though it makes Ground moves hit harder. I know you can't have HP Ice (if you PM me the Stats and level I will be able to work it out using Shoddy, which automatically tells me what type HP is).

    This is the set I use:

    Heatran@Choice Scarf
    Abilty:flash fire
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (I know, boring but it works)
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    HP Ice

    but that is not the point. If you are going for Explosion then change to Life Orb and Rash with 20 Atk EV's if you want that Explosion to do any PROPER explosion damage, or a Petaya berry to improve the attack stat when you get low HP, the time you may be wanting to use Explosion.
    Fair points but HP Ice + Dragon Pulse isn't worth it. If any HP I'm aiming for Grass. Also, I know how to calculate it's HP, though I appreciate the offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by fierylord View Post
    Don't put in Forretress... Your team is pretty solid except for some moves. Hope I helped.
    In Magnezone's case, HP Ice if I can get it. If not what else would you recc?

    For Heatran, Flamethrower might be a nice alternative to Fire Blast. I really have no qualms about the accuracy though, so I'd need to know it would be worth it.

    Protect on Empoleon... Hmm I'll think about it, but I doubt i'll replace Grass Knot, it's my best weapon against those heavy Water/Ground types that I otherwise hate.

    As for Agiligross, I've used it before and honestly, I've found Bullet Punch invaluable. No one expects it so it's nice to just nip that last bit of HP off my opponent. It also allows Metagross to function somewhat as a revenge killer.

    I'll have a look at all the other changes, thanks for the help so far guys.
    Last edited by Darkfall; 4th December 2008 at 12:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfall View Post


    Fair points but HP Ice + Dragon Pulse isn't worth it. If any HP I'm aiming for Grass. Also, I know how to calculate it's HP, though I appreciate the offer.



    In Magnezone's case, HP Ice if I can get it. If not what else would you recc?

    For Heatran, Flamethrower might be a nice alternative to Fire Blast. I really have no qualms about the accuracy though, so I'd need to know it would be worth it.

    Protect on Empoleon... Hmm I'll think about it, but I doubt i'll replace Grass Knot, it's my best weapon against those heavy Water/Ground types that I otherwise hate.

    I'll have a look at all the other changes, thanks for the help so far guys.
    If you plan on switching Heatran out a lot (which I'm sure you are) you could just give it Overheat instead of Flamethrower or Fire Blast. If you plan on sweeping, stick with Flamethrower.
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    Hidden Power [ICE] is a MUST on Scarf Heatran. Fire and Ground get amazing coverage and Dragon Pulse is really only there to hit dragons for Super Effective damage. However, on the Scarf set, Dragon Pulse cannot OHKO Dragonite or Salamence, however, Hidden Power [ICE] DOES. Even with Stealth Rock support, you cannot OHKO Dragonite and there is only a chance you will OHKO Dragonite. Hidden Power [ICE] Also lets you hit things like Gliscor for x4 as well as Ground types. Hidden Power [Grass] would only be worth aiming for if you feel you can handle the dragons and you fear Swampert.

    EDIT: On the scarf set, I dont *THINK* fire blast helps you beat things flamethrower doesnt. It just lets you rack up a little bit more damage on switch-ins but still cant 2HKO things like Gyarados, Milotic etc that the Specs version can. I would suggest going to flamethrower for the extra PP and 100 accuracy.

    Hidden Power [Grass] on Magnezone so you can beat Swampert. Hidden Power [ICE] really wont work on a set unless your running Magnet Rise as well. You will be mainly using Hidden Power [ICE] to beat the dragons, but without Magnet Rise they will just OHKO you with Earthquake anyway. The standard steel trapper set would probably work the best:

    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power [Grass / Ice]
    Magent Rise
    Substitute

    Brave Bird over Drill Peck so you can OHKO Standard Infernape Switch In's and just generally hit things much harder than with drill peck and you can just roost off the re-coiled damag anyway.

    Also, at a glance your team seems to lack speed, even with scarf heatran, there will be things that are un-scarfed that will outspeed you. Think about using a Agility Sweeping Metagross or Agility Sweeping Empoleon. Also, if wants metagross is down, you are gonna struggle to bring down special walls unless you sacrafrice one of special sweepers by using Explosion (Magenzone / Heatran).

    EDIT: Scarf Jirachi with iron head and the 60% Flinch chance could be a good addition. Yeah people might say its pretty cheap, but it might be the only way your gonna be able to beat standard teams. Also, thunder punch from jirachi would allow you to beat Gyarados which otherwise terrorises your team, specially once the shuca berry on metagross is out of the way, or when metagross is just out of the picture.
    Last edited by PokeProMaster; 4th December 2008 at 12:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeProMaster View Post
    Hidden Power [ICE] is a MUST on Scarf Heatran. Fire and Ground get amazing coverage and Dragon Pulse is really only there to hit dragons for Super Effective damage. However, on the Scarf set, Dragon Pulse cannot OHKO Dragonite or Salamence, however, Hidden Power [ICE] DOES. Even with Stealth Rock support, you cannot OHKO Dragonite and there is only a chance you will OHKO Dragonite. Hidden Power [ICE] Also lets you hit things like Gliscor for x4 as well as Ground types. Hidden Power [Grass] would only be worth aiming for if you feel you can handle the dragons and you fear Swampert.

    EDIT: On the scarf set, I dont *THINK* fire blast helps you beat things flamethrower doesnt. It just lets you rack up a little bit more damage on switch-ins but still cant 2HKO things like Gyarados, Milotic etc that the Specs version can. I would suggest going to flamethrower for the extra PP and 100 accuracy.

    Hidden Power [Grass] on Magnezone so you can beat Swampert. Hidden Power [ICE] really wont work on a set unless your running Magnet Rise as well. You will be mainly using Hidden Power [ICE] to beat the dragons, but without Magnet Rise they will just OHKO you with Earthquake anyway. The standard steel trapper set would probably work the best:

    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power [Grass / Ice]
    Magent Rise
    Substitute

    Brave Bird over Drill Peck so you can OHKO Standard Infernape Switch In's and just generally hit things much harder than with drill peck and you can just roost off the re-coiled damag anyway.

    Also, at a glance your team seems to lack speed, even with scarf heatran, there will be things that are un-scarfed that will outspeed you. Think about using a Agility Sweeping Metagross or Agility Sweeping Empoleon. Also, if wants metagross is down, you are gonna struggle to bring down special walls unless you sacrafrice one of special sweepers by using Explosion (Magenzone / Heatran).

    EDIT: Scarf Jirachi with iron head and the 60% Flinch chance could be a good addition. Yeah people might say its pretty cheap, but it might be the only way your gonna be able to beat standard teams. Also, thunder punch from jirachi would allow you to beat Gyarados which otherwise terrorises your team, specially once the shuca berry on metagross is out of the way, or when metagross is just out of the picture.
    I'm not after the standard steel-trapper Magnezone, Maggy is acting as my primary special offense, so it'd like as much type coverage as it can get.

    HP, again however, is secondary consideration at best. Once I catch my Heatran with good I.V's, if it doesn't have the right HP, tough, so again people, alternatives thanks.

    I prefer Drill Peck to Braze Bird. YES BB does more damage and YES I can roost off the damage, but I like to get an early roost in there and frankly, I'd like to take as little damage as possible, meaning I don't wanna damage myself.

    Even if I could Roost it back, that uses my Roosts a lot quicker then I'd normally need to do.

    Adding Jirachi would force me to loose Heatran.

    I'm using Empoleon as a special wall, I don't wanna focus to massively on sweeping with it, so I don't think an agility sweep Empoleon is gonna work here, also, I've addressed agiligross above.

    Looks like I probably WILL use Flamethrower over Fire Blast... I do like the extra PP it gives.

    Thanks for your time.

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    Have you considered a choice scarf for your magnezone? mag3's speed is horrid and choice scarf fixes that. Sure, you're still slower than some after scarf, but if you get HP ice, you can actually net a surprise kill on dragons and such. Furthermore, mag3 isn't really bulky, so the extra speed would help. It's base def might be nice, but it still wouldn't be able to stand up to EQ and CC from the outrageously hard hitter, so do consider choice scarf.

    I think you have to change the scarf on Heatran to a choice specs though, as HP ice on a scarf set KOs dragons but pulse dosen't. It does when tran is specs however, so do consider spectran. Since most people expect scarftran these days, you might be able to force something out and hit whatever comes out extremely hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudk View Post
    Have you considered a choice scarf for your magnezone? mag3's speed is horrid and choice scarf fixes that. Sure, you're still slower than some after scarf, but if you get HP ice, you can actually net a surprise kill on dragons and such. Furthermore, mag3 isn't really bulky, so the extra speed would help. It's base def might be nice, but it still wouldn't be able to stand up to EQ and CC from the outrageously hard hitter, so do consider choice scarf.

    I think you have to change the scarf on Heatran to a choice specs though, as HP ice on a scarf set KOs dragons but pulse dosen't. It does when tran is specs however, so do consider spectran. Since most people expect scarftran these days, you might be able to force something out and hit whatever comes out extremely hard.
    I need to go and catch this Heatran huh? Since we won't know what it has till I've got one I'm satisfied with, then it'd be easier to make a desicion regarding it.

    Scarfing Magnezone and Speccing Heatran sounds like an idea... Not too keen on Choice items since I hate the forced switching they often bring, but i'll certainly look into it.

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    If you're not keen on making heatran choiced, you can opt for a defensive restalk set, though seeing as your already have several walls, this might not be needed. Well, defence and offence are already covered on your team, and offence on heatran usually don't work well with choice items..

    I looked around shoddy actually and found this baitran..It's main role is to kill of blissey and bulky waters, and once bulky waters are gone, metagross can actually have an easy time sweeping... Credits to rakioulover.

    Heatran @ Life Orb
    Nature: Hasty
    *Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    *Earth Power
    *Stealth Rocks
    *Explosion

    Lo gives it's attack more oomph. So switch tran in something that can do nothing against heatran and the opponent is sure to switch. SR on the switch and they might still think that you are scarfed, because the LO recoil dosen't show if you SR. Chances are they'll switch something in that poses a threat to tran. From now on, switch into another of your poke and scare of the bulky water. Then some turn later, switch heatran back in and explode, and the bulky water will be gone. This set works perfectly to take out counters for agiligross and agilileon, so you can consider making either leon or gross an agility varient, but it's ultimately your decision

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    Opposing Magnezones could own this team pretty badly. I was thinking HP [Ground] on yours so that you could trap in kill them (It would also be really, really funny).

    Obviously you'll be SpecsLuke etc weak but that goes without saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudk View Post
    If you're not keen on making heatran choiced, you can opt for a defensive restalk set, though seeing as your already have several walls, this might not be needed. Well, defence and offence are already covered on your team, and offence on heatran usually don't work well with choice items..

    I looked around shoddy actually and found this baitran..It's main role is to kill of blissey and bulky waters, and once bulky waters are gone, metagross can actually have an easy time sweeping... Credits to rakioulover.

    Heatran @ Life Orb
    Nature: Hasty
    *Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    *Earth Power
    *Stealth Rocks
    *Explosion

    Lo gives it's attack more oomph. So switch tran in something that can do nothing against heatran and the opponent is sure to switch. SR on the switch and they might still think that you are scarfed, because the LO recoil dosen't show if you SR. Chances are they'll switch something in that poses a threat to tran. From now on, switch into another of your poke and scare of the bulky water. Then some turn later, switch heatran back in and explode, and the bulky water will be gone. This set works perfectly to take out counters for agiligross and agilileon, so you can consider making either leon or gross an agility varient, but it's ultimately your decision
    That looks more like my kinda Heatran. I like that it's more supportive also.
    I think i'll probably use it since it can make things easier for others and allow me more freedom in attacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annhialator Zero View Post
    Opposing Magnezones could own this team pretty badly. I was thinking HP [Ground] on yours so that you could trap in kill them (It would also be really, really funny).

    Obviously you'll be SpecsLuke etc weak but that goes without saying.
    That's IF I can get HP Ground.
    It'd be pretty funny though, yeah.

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    Heh, it's nice to see your team Jonny, and a great team too, if I may say so!

    In regards to your actual team, I have few comments to make, as I generally agree with all your choices within this team (I will specify anything else below) ^^

    Well, firstly, I am surprised you aren't giving Empoleon Calm Mind... Hehe

    Jokes aside, I wouldn't put Forretress on this team, as all the other six offer more advantages that Forretress would. I doubt Spikes and Stealth Rock will be that much of a problem to you that you need a Rapid Spinner, and once Rapid Spin is gone, Skarmory and Bronzong together do all Forretress would.

    As for deciding which Magnezone's third move should be, Hidden Power (Ice, or even Grass) would obviously be the best choice, but if you don't get that, well, I'm going to leave it up to you (and the others) to decide which of the other moves to choose as my expertise on Magnezone isn't massive and I can't be bothered to read up on it on Smogon atm ^^;; Maybe when we next talk (on the phone) we can discuss it if you still aren't sure (and don't want to wait until you get your Magnezone to see what its Hidden Power is).

    Quote Originally Posted by TomstarRule View Post
    I still don't like that Heatran set, it is way too obvious and Explosion isn't going to help you very much. Modest + 252 SpA EV's makes Explosion not as powerful as it could be. For example you could have those 20 HP EVs in Atk. It all helps. Then change the nature to something like Rash or whatever the Defense lowering equivalent is, even though it makes Ground moves hit harder.

    This is the set I use:

    Heatran@Choice Scarf
    Abilty:flash fire
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (I know, boring but it works)
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse
    HP Ice

    but that is not the point. If you are going for Explosion then change to Life Orb and Rash with 20 Atk EV's if you want that Explosion to do any PROPER explosion damage, or a Petaya berry to improve the attack stat when you get low HP, the time you may be wanting to use Explosion.
    Just because it's obvious, doesn't mean it's ineffective (it's quite effective in fact). Explosion is on there for lack of a better move, and it is very helpful, despite no Attack investment and an Attack reducing nature. Increasing the Attack honestly isn't necessary in order to make Explosion more worthwhile. In my opinion, the difference in power is too minimal to warrant lowering your Defense or Sp. Def, things which Heatran will use more than Explosion.
    The nature you're referring to is Mild, and that won't mean Ground moves will hit harder, only Ground attacks (not special ones like Earth Power).

    I think you acknowledged this, but Dragon Pulse is almost entirely useless if you have a decently powered Hidden Power Ice (if not then you should use Dragon Pulse) as Kingdra is the only non-uber Pokémon Dragon Pulse hits super-effective which HP Ice doesn’t as well (4x for that matter). Everything else which Dragon Pulse hits harder than the other 3 moves (most water types) you shouldn't leave Heatran in against anyway, unless you were using Hidden Power Grass (therefore you would not be using Dragon Pulse that turn and wouldn't have Hidden Power Ice), or Explosion (which should be the 4th move on most Hidden power Ice Heatran, regardless of if you’re decreasing the Attack).

    As I said earlier, Explosion remains worthwhile even without all these measures to increase the Attack, as its purpose is to do as much damage as you can before it would otherwise faint. It shouldn’t be too hard to achieve either, given it has a Choice Scarf, which is why it would be unhelpful to give it Life Orb or any other item (it wouldn’t be going first as often, which you’d want in order to pull off a successful Explosion). Petaya Berry increases the Sp. Atk btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys29 View Post
    If you plan on switching Heatran out a lot (which I'm sure you are) you could just give it Overheat instead of Flamethrower or Fire Blast. If you plan on sweeping, stick with Flamethrower.
    Overheat IS a move woth considering, especially if as you said, Darkfall plans on switching Heatran often, though since Heatran is choiced, this could work against him as once the opponent catches on, the turn after it Overheats, Heatran will provide the opponent a free turn in which they could dangerously set up.

    Also, I honestly would say the Fire move should remain as Fire Blast, as the extra power (180 vs. 142.5) in my opinion definitely outweighs the (small) accuracy difference. Darkfall knows very well what my opinion on Fire Blast’s accuracy is (85% is actually quite good!). The extra power here (as opposed to in Explosion’s case) really will make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfall View Post
    Looks like I probably WILL use Flamethrower over Fire Blast... I do like the extra PP it gives.
    I wouldn’t think you’ll find Fire Blast’s PP too much of an issue. I don’t find my Heatran running out of Fire Blast PP…

    Quote Originally Posted by Annhialator Zero View Post
    Opposing Magnezones could own this team pretty badly. I was thinking HP [Ground] on yours so that you could trap in kill them (It would also be really, really funny).
    I have to say I totally agree with this. I think opponent Magnezone really are this team’s main (and quite big) weakness.

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    OK i will try and make it make sence for you and i did say Grass knot i will bold it.

    I agree With Aniloator but if you stay in when another Magnezone comes out wont it make it obvious to any other *good* player? that you have HP ground and then they will swtch out {hehe i know now that they can't so lave this and ignore it.}, if you want it then go with it personally it would make it obvious and i would go with ice and just switch to heatran {wich is lol cuz thats also obvious also}. Yes you are SpecsLuke weak but because you are doing no wild card then I have no idea how to counter Luke, the only way i can see getting rid of him is to use heatran but then you are risking a sweeper Meh this is just usless babble about randomness so im moving on.

    Quote Originally Posted by fierylord View Post
    Don't put in Forretress... Your team is pretty solid except for some moves. Hope I helped.
    Forry could help you. You could maybe consider putting it in over Brongzong but i wouldn't. {again useless babble sorry}.


    Ok now for your team If you want a stalling Empoleon then have Protect/Toxic/Surf and Grass knot. On magnezone have Hp [ICE].

    Well I thougth there was more but there isnt i could qute alot of the other posts and say go with them but thats a waste of time and reading for you so just go with what you think.
    OK maybe that should make a bit more sence hopefully
    Last edited by S.Bustathedog; 5th December 2008 at 4:04 PM.
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    Magnezone traps opposing Magnezone as they are both Steel.
    Comp has died, borrowing brother's to edit this, won't be on much if at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sim View Post
    Heh, it's nice to see your team Jonny, and a great team too, if I may say so!

    Naturally :3 But yes thanks, it's nice to see YOU on the forums.

    Jokes aside, I wouldn't put Forretress on this team, as all the other six offer more advantages that Forretress would. I doubt Spikes and Stealth Rock will be that much of a problem to you that you need a Rapid Spinner, and once Rapid Spin is gone, Skarmory and Bronzong together do all Forretress would.

    True. I looked at it and decided that yeah, Rapid Spin and extra, just in case, spikes arn't worth adding more fire weakness to my team, especially when it's so very weak to Fire Blast.

    Just because it's obvious, doesn't mean it's ineffective (it's quite effective in fact). Explosion is on there for lack of a better move, and it is very helpful, despite no Attack investment and an Attack reducing nature. Increasing the Attack honestly isn't necessary in order to make Explosion more worthwhile. In my opinion, the difference in power is too minimal to warrant lowering your Defense or Sp. Def, things which Heatran will use more than Explosion.
    The nature you're referring to is Mild, and that won't mean Ground moves will hit harder, only Ground attacks (not special ones like Earth Power).

    As I said earlier, Explosion remains worthwhile even without all these measures to increase the Attack, as its purpose is to do as much damage as you can before it would otherwise faint. It shouldn’t be too hard to achieve either, given it has a Choice Scarf, which is why it would be unhelpful to give it Life Orb or any other item (it wouldn’t be going first as often, which you’d want in order to pull off a successful Explosion). Petaya Berry increases the Sp. Atk btw.

    Another fair point. Explosion is a LAST RESORT people. It's a case of "There's nothing more I can do now, and next time my opponent hits me, i'll faint." Not a, "Oh, let's explode for lulls". . . If I don't get HP Grass, then Explosion will probably remain. Same with the nature and everything else.
    The Life Orb set does give me freedom to attack, however it's not as beneficial as the extra speed given to me by Choice Scarf. As stated, Heatran is acting as a REVENGE KILLER, not a special sweeper, therefore it's likely the enemy has already been sufficiently weakened enough to get a REVENGE KILL.


    Overheat IS a move woth considering, especially if as you said, Darkfall plans on switching Heatran often, though since Heatran is choiced, this could work against him as once the opponent catches on, the turn after it Overheats, Heatran will provide the opponent a free turn in which they could dangerously set up.

    Also, if I decided it was late game enough to have Heatran power through things without switching, Fire Blast would be much more beneficial. Granted I plan on having Heatran switch out a fair bit, but late game I may let it tear a couple of things down, especially after I learn my opponents team.

    Also, I honestly would say the Fire move should remain as Fire Blast, as the extra power (180 vs. 142.5) in my opinion definitely outweighs the (small) accuracy difference. Darkfall knows very well what my opinion on Fire Blast’s accuracy is (85% is actually quite good!). The extra power here (as opposed to in Explosion’s case) really will make a difference.


    I wouldn’t think you’ll find Fire Blast’s PP too much of an issue. I don’t find my Heatran running out of Fire Blast PP…

    That's because we barely see your Heatran :3
    But yeah, generally I never seem to run out of Fire Blasts, thinking about it, it's just a case of Revenge Kill vs Late Game. For RK, Flamethrower still works as, as mentioned above, my enemy will likely have been weakened anyway. However Late Game, I wouldn't be able to power through with Heatran. Then there's the costly miss factor, granted Fire Blast's accuracy has rarely caused a problem, but in one-on-one scenarios, where I can see an Earthquake coming, I'd generally want to hit them. BUT, I'd want to hit them hard.

    I suppose it comes down to this: Late Game, what else do I have? If I have enough attacking Pokemon left, Heatran will do a fine job weakening things it doesn't outright beat, however if I don't, then I'd need to take a little extra risk and beat things as quickly as possible. Hmm, I'll give it more thought.



    I have to say I totally agree with this. I think opponent Magnezone really are this team’s main (and quite big) weakness.
    Magnezone is a problem. I highly doubt I'll be seeing any, considering the nature of the league, but that doesn't mean I'm going to rule them out completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.Bustathedog View Post
    I agree here but if you stay in when anothe Mag3 comes out wont it make it oviuse to any other *good* player?, if you want it then go with it personally it would make it oviuse and i would go with ice and just switch to heatran {wich is lol cuz thats also oviuse}. Yes he you are SpecsLuke weak but because you are doing no wild card then I have no idea how to counter Luke, the only way i can see getting rid of him is to use heatran but then you are riscking a sweeper Meh this is just usless babble about randomness so im moving on.



    Forry could help you. You could maybe consider putting it in over Brongzong but i wouldn't. {again useless babble sorry}.


    Ok now for your team If you want a stalling Empoleon then have Protect/Toxic/Surf and Grass knot. On magnezone Hp [ICE].

    Well I thougth there was more but there isnt i could qute alot of the other posts and say go with them but thats a waste of time and reading for you so just go with what you think.

    I'm sorry but I barely understood anything you just said ._.
    Empoleon idea is decent, but Grass Knot, as I mentioned, is my main weapon against Swampert and ilk. I NEED a grass move on this team, and Grass Knot is pretty much gonna be my best assault on them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Annhialator Zero View Post
    Magnezone traps opposing Magnezone as they are both Steel.
    If im not wrong you would still be able to switch out. My porygon2 traced a dugtrio's arena trap once but i was able to switch out, hence i assume it applies for all the trapping abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudk View Post
    If im not wrong you would still be able to switch out. My porygon2 traced a dugtrio's arena trap once but i was able to switch out, hence i assume it applies for all the trapping abilities.
    I think that is cuz you traced it and it wasn't your actual ablity Anolator is right it would be traped i over looked that.
    I'm sorry but I barely understood anything you just said ._.
    Empoleon idea is decent, but Grass Knot, as I mentioned, is my main weapon against Swampert and ilk. I NEED a grass move on this team, and Grass Knot is pretty much gonna be my best assault on them!
    I know It was just Usless bable about something that would only make sence in MY head, and i think i said Grass knot didn't I?
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Bustathedog View Post

    I know It was just Usless bable about something that would only make sence in MY head, and i think i said Grass knot didn't I?
    Toxic/Protect/Ice Beam/Surf was your set.

    I do appreciate your opinion though =D I just had no idea what you were talking about XD

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    I edited the post that didn't make sence go and check it out and tell me if it makes sence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Bustathedog View Post
    I think that is cuz you traced it and it wasn't your actual ablity Anolator is right it would be traped i over looked that.

    I know It was just Usless bable about something that would only make sence in MY head, and i think i said Grass knot didn't I?


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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Bustathedog View Post
    OK i will try and make it make sence for you and i did say Grass knot i will bold it.



    OK maybe that should make a bit more sence hopefully
    More sense was made. Thanks :3

    Yeah, SpecsLuke is a problem, I was kinda hoping to be able to Quake it or something, but that's literally living on edge, and I know it's not really very beneficial to "hope" XD.

    Hmm... Magnezone is tricky buisiness. It can trap Luke, but then what? I guess Thunder Wave... Assuming it survives.


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