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Thread: Create/Rename/Change Anything and Everything!!!

  1. #8601
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    Default

    Diamond Beam
    Type: Rock
    Power: 100
    Accuracy: 80% or 85%
    PP: 5 or 10
    Category: Special
    Contact: No
    Description: N/A
    Note: A more power version of Power Gem.

  2. #8602
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    Default Pokemon variants

    Special Caterpie: When encountering a member of the Caterpie line, there is a 5% chance of encountering a "Prize Caterpie." Prize Caterpie are a rare variation of Caterpie who, when fully evolved, are a lot stronger than normal Butterfree. They have a BST increase of 130, but they cannot ever Mega Evolve. Females are pink, males blue.

    Arbok Patterns: Like Spinda, Arbok has different patterns now encoded in it. This is a reference to its Pokedex entry

    Meowth/Persian Grooming: In Celadon City, you can get your Meowth or Persian stylized in a similar manner to Furfrou. At first, you only have Punk or Socialite. Once you beat the gym in Celadon City, you get to choose an extra of Hero(you become like Puss and Boots) or Criminal(it gets Team Rocket clothes) Having all eight badges it can be Tamer(based on Lance), Spooky(based on Agatha), Wrestler(based on Bruno) or Skiier(based on Lorelei). If you beat the champion, you are rewarded with your very own shiny Meowth. These variants are purely aesthetic

    Crystal Onix/Steelix: The Crystal Onix/Steelix is unique for its use of water moves, and Dry Skin ability. It retains this even in Mega Evolution form

    Black Wool Mareep line: 5% of Mareep have black wool. In Ampharos, this is expressed with a blue gem(or in Mega black hair). This is not purely aesthetic; these Mareep have Intimidate as an ability. Mega Black Wool Ampharos has Draconize(Normal moves become Dragon), so it's a neat find

    Seasonal Sudowoodo: Sudowoodo are now differently colored depending on when you catch them. If you catch them in real-life autumn, they will have autumn "leaves" on their hand. If you catch them in real-life spring, they will have "leaves" on their head as well

    Odd-Colored Plusle/Minum and Volbeat/Illumise: There is a 5% chance that the Plusle you catch will be blue instead of red, and vice versa. They also switch shiny palletes. A similar scenario happens with Volbeat and Illumise

    Stylized Kricketune: In Sinnoh, you can go to a barber and change Kricketune's moustache
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    Latest shiny: Omanyte(40 SR!)

  3. #8603
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    Default

    New item:

    Grass Mower
    Each time the holder attacks a Grass-type Pokémon, the power of the holder's Steel-type moves double.
    Last edited by JudySpell; 29th January 2016 at 3:01 AM.

  4. #8604
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    Default HM Moves that can be naturally learned

    Cut: Meowth line, Scyther, Sneasel line, Zangoose, Sableye, Excadrill, Honedge line
    Fly: Charizard, Pidgeot, Bird trio, Drifloon line, Yanmega, Noivern
    Surf: Poliwrath, Blastoise, Lapras, Eon duo
    Strength: Machop line, Mewtwo, Ursaring, Vigoroth, Hariyama, Regigigas, Cranidos line, Timburr line
    Waterfall: Gyarados, Poliwrath, Feraligatr
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  5. #8605
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedJirachi View Post

    Seasonal Sudowoodo: Sudowoodo are now differently colored depending on when you catch them. If you catch them in real-life autumn, they will have autumn "leaves" on their hand. If you catch them in real-life spring, they will have "leaves" on their head as well
    Sudowoodo has a PokeDex entry that mentions that its false leaves do not change colour according to the seasons, making them easy to spot during the winter.

    "Sudowoodo camouflages itself as a tree to avoid being attacked by enemies. However, because its hands remain green throughout the year, the Pokémon is easily identified as a fake during the winter."
    Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 3rd February 2016 at 2:17 AM.
    Play Minecraft? Check this out.

    Just an urchin livin' under the street - I'm a hard case that's tough to beat
    I'm your charity case - So buy me somethin' to eat
    I'll pay you at another time - Take it to the end of the line

    Rags to riches or so they say - Ya gotta keep pushin' for the fortune and fame
    Ya know it's all a gamble when it''s just a game
    But ya treat it like like a capitol crime - And everybody's doin' their time


  6. #8606
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    Default

    Ancient Wave
    Power: 90
    Accuracy: 100
    Type: Rock
    Category: Special
    PP: 10
    Effect: Has a 10% chance of lowering the target's Special Defense by one stage. On Double Battles, it hits all foes, but not allies.

    Shadow Strike
    Power: 100
    Accuracy: 100
    Type: Ghost
    Category: Physical
    PP: 10
    Effect: None.
    Last edited by Amanojaku; 5th February 2016 at 6:17 PM.

  7. #8607
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    Default

    Really minor thing here, but...

    I'd really want to give Mega Glalie an unbroken jaw :/ The poor thing.

    And then on the side of gameplay...Refrigerate is a pretty meh Ability for it to have...There aren't a-lot of good Normal type moves that it can use for Physical or Special damage, whereas every other Pokemon with this sort of Ability has at least one great option (Hyper Voice for the most part, but Salamence can also put Double Edge to good use, and Pinsir has its trusty Quick Attack as well as Feint). Explosion is cool, but that's a waste of a Mega Slot. And Double Edge is only available from transfers. Headbutt? A bit weak compared to what the others are packing (and has less utility than Quick Attack or Feint).

    Though despite my complaints I'm not sure what I'd give it, apart from maybe Sturdy or Snow Warning off the top of my head.

    Stats-wise I still think its kind of lackluster...Its got a good deal of power, but the defenses are still bland...I'd scratch a bit off of its Attack stat and Speed for some more Bulk.

    110 Attack
    120 Sp. Attack
    120 Defense
    110 Sp. Defense
    50 Speed

    ...Probably drastic on that Speed but hey.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 5th February 2016 at 2:12 PM.


  8. #8608
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    Default

    Frozen Age
    Type: Ice/Special
    Power: 50
    Acc: 30
    PP: 5

    If this attack hits, the target will be frozen for at least 5 turns.

  9. #8609
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Empoleon View Post
    Really minor thing here, but...

    I'd really want to give Mega Glalie an unbroken jaw :/ The poor thing.

    And then on the side of gameplay...Refrigerate is a pretty meh Ability for it to have...There aren't a-lot of good Normal type moves that it can use for Physical or Special damage, whereas every other Pokemon with this sort of Ability has at least one great option (Hyper Voice for the most part, but Salamence can also put Double Edge to good use, and Pinsir has its trusty Quick Attack as well as Feint). Explosion is cool, but that's a waste of a Mega Slot. And Double Edge is only available from transfers. Headbutt? A bit weak compared to what the others are packing (and has less utility than Quick Attack or Feint).

    Mega Glalie shines in Doubles with Refridgerate Explosion. I personally this set it in VGC where Moody is legal.


    Glalie @ Glalite
    Jolly - Moody (Refridgerate)
    252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 Defence
    -Return
    -Earthquake
    -Explosion
    -Protect

    If I happen to get the Attack boost from Moody, very little is going to survive a Refridgerate boosted Explosion, especially if I can get an Azelf or Gardevoir to Imprison Protect. I actually used an Explosion team consisting of Azelf, Metagross, Glalie, and a Dragonite as a cleaner, wasn't very practical but it was a hell of a lot of fun.
    Play Minecraft? Check this out.

    Just an urchin livin' under the street - I'm a hard case that's tough to beat
    I'm your charity case - So buy me somethin' to eat
    I'll pay you at another time - Take it to the end of the line

    Rags to riches or so they say - Ya gotta keep pushin' for the fortune and fame
    Ya know it's all a gamble when it''s just a game
    But ya treat it like like a capitol crime - And everybody's doin' their time


  10. #8610
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    Default Type contrarianism

    Note: Unless explicitly said so, these moves have the same Power, PP and Accuracy as Freeze-Dry
    * Cryo Drop: A special Ice move which is super-effective against Fire types. It can be learnt by Articuno, Regice, Abomasnow and Kyurem
    * Boil: A special Fire move which is super-effective against Water types. It can be learnt by the Slugma line, Camerupt, Heatran and Reshiram
    * Acidic Blast: A special Poison move which is super-effective against Steel types. It can only be learnt by the Grimer line, Koffing line, Swalot and Dragalge
    * Over-Saturate: A special Water move which is super-effective against Grass types. It can only be learnt by Blastoise, Kyogre, Lapras and Feraligatr
    * Pillar Throw: A physical Ground move which is super-effective against Flying types. It can only be learnt by the Cubone line, Gligar line, Groudon and Garchomp
    * Soul Punch: A physical Fighting move which is super-effective against Ghost types. It can only be learnt by Lucario, Gallade, Mienshao and the Medicham line
    * Super Bolt: A special Electric move which is super-effective against Ground types. It can only be learnt by the Pichu line
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  11. #8611
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    Default

    I would remove mega-evolutions. Really, wtf were that? Worst addition ever.

  12. #8612
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    Default Marowak

    I'd like if the bone Attacks (Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang) could hit flying or levitating pokemon. It seems weird to me that my Marowak seemingly can't throw her bone upwards at all. I feel it would help set Marowak apart from other pokemon as well, which is good, because I feel Marowak is forgotten by most people outside of Gen 1 story.

    Also, on the subject of Marowak, being one of the few pokemon to actually carry a baton-like item, it seems odd that it can't learn baton pass....


    fear my gible army. mwa ha ha ha haaaaaaa!


  13. #8613
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragom master Tryce View Post
    I'd like if the bone Attacks (Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang) could hit flying or levitating pokemon. It seems weird to me that my Marowak seemingly can't throw her bone upwards at all. I feel it would help set Marowak apart from other pokemon as well, which is good, because I feel Marowak is forgotten by most people outside of Gen 1 story.

    Also, on the subject of Marowak, being one of the few pokemon to actually carry a baton-like item, it seems odd that it can't learn baton pass....
    That would be neat. It certainly would make sense. Acid Spray should do something to Steel Pokemon because acid actually has an effect on metal
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  14. #8614
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedJirachi View Post
    That would be neat. It certainly would make sense. Acid Spray should do something to Steel Pokemon because acid actually has an effect on metal
    Maybe acid attacks could cause the 'corrosion' status, which is like Poison, but exclusively for Steel types?


    fear my gible army. mwa ha ha ha haaaaaaa!


  15. #8615
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedJirachi View Post
    That would be neat. It certainly would make sense. Acid Spray should do something to Steel Pokemon because acid actually has an effect on metal
    The issue with splitting hairs like this is that there's too many attacks that would need to deal damage to Pokemon that should be immune to them. For instance, Hyper Beam is very clearly an energy based attack, so why shouldn't it hit Ghost types? Sound-based Normal typed moves fall in the same category, and come to think if it, why should Ghost be immune to Normal and Fighting but not Rock, Steel, and Ground? Why should moves like Thunderpunch and Wild Charge do no damage at all to Ground types? Realistically it should do reduced damage and have no paralysis chance, but the physical contact would at least do some damage. On the subject of Electric, how come Water is weak to Electric, Ground is immune to it, and Steel is neutral to it? All three conduct electricity and yet they span the entire type relation chart.

    You could make type relations more nuanced but it would require you to overhaul the entire system, because there's so many possible exceptions.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 8th February 2016 at 10:06 AM.
    Play Minecraft? Check this out.

    Just an urchin livin' under the street - I'm a hard case that's tough to beat
    I'm your charity case - So buy me somethin' to eat
    I'll pay you at another time - Take it to the end of the line

    Rags to riches or so they say - Ya gotta keep pushin' for the fortune and fame
    Ya know it's all a gamble when it''s just a game
    But ya treat it like like a capitol crime - And everybody's doin' their time


  16. #8616
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    The issue with splitting hairs like this is that there's too many attacks that would need to deal damage to Pokemon that should be immune to them. For instance, Hyper Beam is very clearly an energy based attack, so why shouldn't it hit Ghost types? Sound-based Normal typed moves fall in the same category, and come to think if it, why should Ghost be immune to Normal and Fighting but not Rock, Steel, and Ground? Why should moves like Thunderpunch and Wild Charge do no damage at all to Ground types? Realistically it should do reduced damage and have no paralysis chance, but the physical contact would at least do some damage. On the subject of Electric, how come Water is weak to Electric, Ground is immune to it, and Steel is neutral to it? All three conduct electricity and yet they span the entire type relation chart.

    You could make type relations more nuanced but it would require you to overhaul the entire system, because there's so many possible exceptions.
    Up until Gen VI I would have completely agreed. Whilst moves like the ones mentioned have always kinda bugged me, I kinda went with the idea that the type chart is the type chart, and should be left as is.
    However, with the introduction of Freeze-dry, and to a lesser extent Flying Press as well, I feel that there are a few existing moves that could have been given unique 'typing' to set them apart, especially if it gave a few forgotten Pokemon a new lease of life.


    fear my gible army. mwa ha ha ha haaaaaaa!


  17. #8617
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    The issue with splitting hairs like this is that there's too many attacks that would need to deal damage to Pokemon that should be immune to them. For instance, Hyper Beam is very clearly an energy based attack, so why shouldn't it hit Ghost types? Sound-based Normal typed moves fall in the same category, and come to think if it, why should Ghost be immune to Normal and Fighting but not Rock, Steel, and Ground? Why should moves like Thunderpunch and Wild Charge do no damage at all to Ground types? Realistically it should do reduced damage and have no paralysis chance, but the physical contact would at least do some damage. On the subject of Electric, how come Water is weak to Electric, Ground is immune to it, and Steel is neutral to it? All three conduct electricity and yet they span the entire type relation chart.

    You could make type relations more nuanced but it would require you to overhaul the entire system, because there's so many possible exceptions.

    All three elements have been commonly used in defecting spiritual enemies in many religious systems, with cold iron in particular defecting ghosts in a similar fashion to how it defects fairies. So, that isn't an issue(though you can make a case for physical attacks not hitting Ghosts in general instead).

    And most of the Generation VI's changes have been small minute changes like this(Dragon Rush, Body Slam etc. hitting Minimized opponents with double damage and perfect accuracy for example). So it is not really unprecedented either, even if it might be difficult to implement in 3DS, it wouldn't be so overcrowded in a better future platform.

    Edit: And this isn't really a rebuttal to your argument, since this thread is just for listing some random ideas people come up with from time to time than for any serious discussion about the implications.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
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    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..

    Youtube, DeviantArt, Bulbagarden, Imageshack, Photobucket, Smogon, Blog, Pokémon Series Analysis Dropbox Folder, Tumblr. PO/PS Username: Yusuf Kaya 3.0

  18. #8618
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    Default Typing tweaks

    Ice type tweaks
    * Offensively strong to: Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ground(stays constant)
    * Offensively weak to: Fire, Ice, Steel, Water(stays constant)
    * Defensively weak against: Fire, Fighting, Fire, Rock(stays constant)
    * Defensively strong against: Ice, Water, Poison(bacteria do poorly in the cold, and water is liquid ice)

    Ice Pokemon affected:
    * Gains a quad resistance to Poison: Swinub family, Froslass, Amaura family
    * Gains a resistance to Poison: Snowy Snorunt, Snorunt/Glalie, Regice, Glaceon, Vanillite family, Cubchoo family, Cryogonal, Bergmite family, Smoochum Family, Articuno, Delibird, Spheal family, Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Sneasel family, Frost Rotom, Kyurem
    * Loses weakness to Poison: Snover family
    * Gains a quad resistance to Water: Spheal family, Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Snover family, Kyurem
    * Gains a resistance to Water: Snowy Castform, Snorunt family, Regice, Glaceon, Vanillite family, Cubchoo family, Cryogonal family, Bergmite family, Jynx, Smoochum family, Delbird, Sneasel family, Frost Rotom
    * Loses weakness to Water: Swinub family, Amaura family
    Non-Ice types affected:
    * All Water and Poison moves become 1/2 as effective as before against Ice types


    Poison type tweaks
    * Offensively strong to: Fairy, Grass, Normal(what defense does an average person have against poison?)
    * Offensively weak to: Ice, Poison, Ground, Rock, Ghost
    * Offensively useless to: Steel(stays constant)
    * Defensively weak against: Ground, Psychic
    * Defensively strong against: Fighting, Poison, Bug, Grass, Fairy

    Non Poison Pokemon affected:
    * Pokemon who lose resistance to Poison attacks: Diggersby
    * Pokemon now weak to Poison attacks: Rattata, Meowth, Happiny, Porygon, Munchlax, Sentret, Aipom, Teddiursa, Zigzagoon, Slakoth, Whismur, Skitty, Bidoof, Buneary, Glameow, Patrat, Lillipup, Minccino, Pidgey, Doduo, Hoothoot, Tailow, Starly, Pidove, Rufflet, Litleo and Helioptile families, Kangashkan, Eevee, Ditto, Dunsparce, Stantler, Tauros, Miltank, Spinda, Zangoose, base Castform, standard Kecleon, Regigigas, base Arceus, Base Audino, Bouffalent, Bunnelby, Furfrou, Farfetch'd, Girafarig, Swablu, Chatot, Meloetta, Fletchling
    * Pokemon with quad weaknesses to Poison attacks: Igglybuff family, Azurill, Mega Audino, Deerling family


    New type: Sound
    * Offensively strong to: Psychic(breaks concentration), Steel, Water(sound travels faster), Sound(more noise)
    * Offensively weak to: Ground, Flying, Dark(they will be alerted to)
    * Offensively useless to: Ghost(vacuum of space)
    * Defensively weak to: Sound, Rock(just to help rock out, and it blocks sound), Ghost
    * Defensively strong to: Dark(you can find your way around with sound), Water, Steel

    Pokemon retyping:
    * Igglybuff line-Sound/Fairy(gains a resistance against Fighting and Water, double resistance against Dark, loses its weakness to Steel, and a new weakness in the form of Sound, Rock and Ghost)
    * Politoed-Water/Sound(gains a weakness to Sound/Rock/Ghost, a quad resistance against Water and Steel, and a resistance against Dark)
    * Misdreavous line-Ghost/Sound(it is the banshee Pokemon. It stays immune to Sound moves, resists Water and Steel, loses its weakness to Dark, becomes weak to Rock and incredibly vulnerable to Ghost)
    * Whismur line-Sound
    * Chingling line-Psychic/Sound(loses its weakness to Dark moves, resists Water and Steel, becomes weak to Rock and gains a quad weakness to Sound and Dark)
    * Kricketot line-Bug/Sound(a Dark/Water/Steel resistance is added, a Sound/Ghost weakness is added and it becomes quad weak to Rock)
    * Chatot-Sound/Flying(lack a weakness to Sound moves, gains a quad weakness to Rock moves, resists Dark/Water/Steel, and gains a weakness to Ghost)
    * Maractus-Grass/Sound(gains a quad resistance against Water, resists Dark/Steel and is weak to Sound/Rock/Ghost)
    * Aria Meloetta-Sound/Psychic
    * Pirouette Meloetta-Sound/Fighting(loses a Fighting type weakness, and becomes quad resistant to Dark moves. Loses resistance to Rock moves, and becomes weak to Ghost and Sound moves)

    Other Pokemon affected:
    * Pokemon immune to Sound moves: All Ghost Pokemon and Pokemon with the ability Soundproof
    * Pokemon with a 4x resistance to Sound moves: Gligar family, Sandile family, Landorus, Murkrow family, Vullably family, Yveltal
    * Pokemon with a 2x resistance to Sound moves: All pure Ground, Flying and Dark Pokemon, Sneasel, Houndour, Scraggy, Deino, and Stunky families, Mega Gyarados, Tyranitar, Nuzleaf and Shiftry, Cacturne, Pangoro, Rhydon, Trapinch, Geodude, Swinub, Numel and Gible families, Nidoking/queen, Onix, Larvitar and Pupitar, Nincada, Torterra, Ground Wormadam, Palpitoad, Seimsmitoad, Diggersby and Zygarde, Noibat, Pidgey, Spearow, Farfetch'd, Doduo, Aerodactyl, Hoothoot, Ledyba, Zubat, Hoppip, Tailow, Starly, Combee, , Yanma, Pidove, Archen, Rufflet and Fletchling families, Bird Trio, Swablu and Base Altaria, Base Charizard/Mega Charizard Y, Scyther, Mega Pinsir, Dragonite, Togetic and Togekiss, Delibird, Ho-oh, Beautifly, Masquerian, Ninjask, Tropius, Salamence, Rayquaza, Mothim, Fan Rotom, Sky Shaymin, Thundurus, Vivillon and Hawlucha
    * Pokemon with a 2x weakness to Sound moves: All pure Psychic, Water and Steel Pokemon, Mime Jr, Exeggcute, Smoochum, and Meditite lines, Mega Mewtwo X, Lugia, Victini, Girafarig, Lunatone, Solrock, Eon Duo, Zen Mode Darmanitan and Delphox, Chinchou, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Kabuto, Tentacool, Spheal and Binacle lines, Poliwrath, Dewgong, Cloyster, Base Gyarados, Marill, Azumarill, Qwilfish, Corsola, Kingdra, Palkia, Keldeo, Greninja, Surskit, Bibarel, Wash Rotom, Skrelp and Volcanion, Aron, Magnemite, Shieldon and Ferroseed lines, Steelix, Mawile, Cobalion, Dialga, Klefki, Forretress, Scizor, Lucario, Probopass, Heatran, Escavalier, Durant, Trash Wormadam, Genesect
    * Pokemon with a 4x weakness to Sound moves: Slowpoke line, Starmie, Empoleon, Beldum and Bronzor lines, Jirachi
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  19. #8619
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    Default

    Honestly I feel like we can fix the type charts (at least in terms of game balance) by... Removing the Fairy type. Well, okay, a couple other tweaks as well, but let's get rid of the Fairy type to start.

    -Steel super-effective against Dragon (I'm sure we've all heard the knight-slays-dragon argument by now, and it makes more sense than... fairy-slays-dragon...)
    -Steel regains resistance to Ghost and Dark (neither of these types needed an offensive boost at all. They were already strong to begin with, and the nerf to Steel typing pushed them over to edge and made them, I'd say, slightly overpowered)
    -Steel loses resistance to Psychic (Psychic is in desperate need of a buff somewhere. It's currently awful defensively and not much better offensively. I also agree 5th generation Steel is a bit hefty on the defensive side, especially if we give it super-effective coverage on Dragon.)
    -Poison super-effective against Water (Water is easily polluted, killing the things that live in or rely upon that water. Plus, Water is an amazing defensive typing that can easily handle the addition of a new weakness, especially such an uncommon offensive type as Poison)

    Dragon, I would argue, did not need a nerf offensively. It hits nothing other than other Dragons for super-effective damage, and while Outrage spam is annoying, it would easier to deal with than ever if Steel would hit Dragons super-effectively. Therefore nothing gains a resistance to Dragon (it could be argued that Ice deserves a resistance to Dragon, but this only makes any semblance of sense from a gameplay perspective. I can't think of any logical reason why Ice would resist Dragon).

    Yeah, I know, Fairy types have been released and it's extremely unlikely they'd be removed now that the cat's out of the bag, but we're theorymonning here, are we not?
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    Just an urchin livin' under the street - I'm a hard case that's tough to beat
    I'm your charity case - So buy me somethin' to eat
    I'll pay you at another time - Take it to the end of the line

    Rags to riches or so they say - Ya gotta keep pushin' for the fortune and fame
    Ya know it's all a gamble when it''s just a game
    But ya treat it like like a capitol crime - And everybody's doin' their time


  20. #8620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Honestly I feel like we can fix the type charts (at least in terms of game balance) by... Removing the Fairy type. Well, okay, a couple other tweaks as well, but let's get rid of the Fairy type to start.

    -Steel super-effective against Dragon (I'm sure we've all heard the knight-slays-dragon argument by now, and it makes more sense than... fairy-slays-dragon...)
    -Steel regains resistance to Ghost and Dark (neither of these types needed an offensive boost at all. They were already strong to begin with, and the nerf to Steel typing pushed them over to edge and made them, I'd say, slightly overpowered)
    -Steel loses resistance to Psychic (Psychic is in desperate need of a buff somewhere. It's currently awful defensively and not much better offensively. I also agree 5th generation Steel is a bit hefty on the defensive side, especially if we give it super-effective coverage on Dragon.)
    -Poison super-effective against Water (Water is easily polluted, killing the things that live in or rely upon that water. Plus, Water is an amazing defensive typing that can easily handle the addition of a new weakness, especially such an uncommon offensive type as Poison)

    Dragon, I would argue, did not need a nerf offensively. It hits nothing other than other Dragons for super-effective damage, and while Outrage spam is annoying, it would easier to deal with than ever if Steel would hit Dragons super-effectively. Therefore nothing gains a resistance to Dragon (it could be argued that Ice deserves a resistance to Dragon, but this only makes any semblance of sense from a gameplay perspective. I can't think of any logical reason why Ice would resist Dragon).

    Yeah, I know, Fairy types have been released and it's extremely unlikely they'd be removed now that the cat's out of the bag, but we're theorymonning here, are we not?
    The thing that makes Gen 5 Dragon an OP offensive typing is that, other than Steel-types, it hits everything at least neutrally. That's why Dragon+Magnezone cores were so effective, once Steel-types were removed only physical tanks could survive the Outrage spam and even then most could be removed with Draco Meteor. So, while giving Dragon-types another weakness helps, this issue would only be fixed by making something other than Steel resist them.

  21. #8621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanojaku View Post
    The thing that makes Gen 5 Dragon an OP offensive typing is that, other than Steel-types, it hits everything at least neutrally. That's why Dragon+Magnezone cores were so effective, once Steel-types were removed only physical tanks could survive the Outrage spam and even then most could be removed with Draco Meteor. So, while giving Dragon-types another weakness helps, this issue would only be fixed by making something other than Steel resist them.
    This isn't entirely true though. For starters, let's 1-v-all Garchomp and take a look at some things that can tank it.

    Skarmory (OU Defensive) Stone Edge 18.5 - 22.1% possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Trapped by Magnezone
    Bronzong (UU Tank) Outrage 25.4 - 30.1% 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Can probably beat Mag if it packs EQ, but largely irrelevant in the 5th and 6th gen metagames
    Forretress (UU Defensive Pivot Rapid Spin) Earthquake 26.2 - 31.3% 12.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Trapped by Mag, but doesn't win 1v1 against Chomp anyways
    Landorus-T (OU Defensive) Outrage 26.7 - 31.6% 34.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Literally ****s Magnezone. AV Landy-T is as solid a counter to DragMag as you're going to get. Even without AV nothing short of something ridiculous like Ice Beam Dragonite is going to KO.
    Mega Scizor (OU Defog) Earthquake 27 - 32.2% guaranteed 4HKO <---- Trapped by Mag, but wins if it happens to pack Superpower. Loses to Dragons that carry Fire Blast, though.
    Whimsicott (UU Support) Stone Edge 27.2 - 32.1% 48.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Lololol just wanted to include this
    Cresselia (OU Defensive) Outrage 28.3 - 33.3% 95.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- I can't even remember the last time I a Cresselia in OU but I guess it's a viable stop to DragMag
    Hippowdon (UU Physical Wall) Outrage 30.2 - 35.7% guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Wrecks DragMag
    Heatran (OU Offensive) Stone Edge 32.1 - 38% 96.1% chance to 3HKO <--- Balloon Tran is my favourite check to Dragons in general and DragMag specifically. Just the presence of a Heatran on your team is going to cause problems for DragMag teams, because Magnezone doesn't stand a chance in hell, and even without a balloon you can seriously punish opponents who spam Outrage. BalloonTran with HP Ice (one of my favourite sets) just adds insult to injury. Or rather, injury to more injury.
    Suicune (OU CroCune) Outrage 31.9 - 37.8% 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- This one I found interesting. Not including it because it checks DragMag (it doesn't) but I think this shows the sheer tanking ability of CroCune quite nicely. Irrelevant though.

    So just from the top of the list of results (ignoring random NU trash like Probopass) we've got Bronzong, Landorus-T, Whimsicott (lol), Cresselia, Hippowdown, Heatran, and in certain situations Mega Scizor who can check DragMag. If we remove Fairy Whimsicott goes out the window but who the hell was going to use Whimsicott to begin with, other than Prankster team trolls? Besides, it loses if Mag packs Flash Cannon, especially since it can't troll it with Stun Spore anymore.

    Anyways, one thing I did notice is a stunning lack of Fairy types that can stand up to Garchomp's barrage. Most of the common Fairies (Clefable, Sylveon, Florges, etc.) have pretty subpar physical bulk and therefore get 2HKO'd by Earthquake cleanly. His checks are almost entirely Steel types or bulky physical walls, which does not mesh with the idea that Fairy balances Dragon. The numbers indicate that it clearly does no such thing, but I'd also take it a step farther and say that Dragon isn't overpowered to begin with, thanks to a number of things.

    -No super-effective coverage.
    -Negative effects on most usable moves (Outrage locks you in for 2-3 turns, Draco Meteor drops Sp. Atk, potentially forcing you out, Dragon Claw has a rather low damage output without boosts)
    -Abundance of Steel types (Steel is one of the most diverse types and it's easy to find a Steel type that can check Dragons and easily fit on your team)
    -Also weak to Ice, one of the most common attacking types in the game.

    One last point. When it comes to Outrage spam, I've always said and maintain to say that Fairy is worse at checking Outrage spammers than Steel. This is for one simple fact; switching a Fairy type in ends Outrage (or stops it from happening in the first place), allowing your opponent to switch or simply murder your physically fragile Fairy with its coverage moves. Steel types might take some damage from Outrage but they don't end it, giving them a turn or two to set up or kill the Dragon. This would be even more true if Steel hit Dragon super-effectively.

    I will say that perhaps Dragon could lose some resistances. It does have quite a few for a type that's supposed to be offensive, and with only 2 (or 3 in gen 6) weaknesses.
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  22. #8622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    This isn't entirely true though. For starters, let's 1-v-all Garchomp and take a look at some things that can tank it.

    Skarmory (OU Defensive) Stone Edge 18.5 - 22.1% possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Trapped by Magnezone
    Bronzong (UU Tank) Outrage 25.4 - 30.1% 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Can probably beat Mag if it packs EQ, but largely irrelevant in the 5th and 6th gen metagames
    Forretress (UU Defensive Pivot Rapid Spin) Earthquake 26.2 - 31.3% 12.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Trapped by Mag, but doesn't win 1v1 against Chomp anyways
    Landorus-T (OU Defensive) Outrage 26.7 - 31.6% 34.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Literally ****s Magnezone. AV Landy-T is as solid a counter to DragMag as you're going to get. Even without AV nothing short of something ridiculous like Ice Beam Dragonite is going to KO.
    Mega Scizor (OU Defog) Earthquake 27 - 32.2% guaranteed 4HKO <---- Trapped by Mag, but wins if it happens to pack Superpower. Loses to Dragons that carry Fire Blast, though.
    Whimsicott (UU Support) Stone Edge 27.2 - 32.1% 48.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Lololol just wanted to include this
    Cresselia (OU Defensive) Outrage 28.3 - 33.3% 95.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- I can't even remember the last time I a Cresselia in OU but I guess it's a viable stop to DragMag
    Hippowdon (UU Physical Wall) Outrage 30.2 - 35.7% guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- Wrecks DragMag
    Heatran (OU Offensive) Stone Edge 32.1 - 38% 96.1% chance to 3HKO <--- Balloon Tran is my favourite check to Dragons in general and DragMag specifically. Just the presence of a Heatran on your team is going to cause problems for DragMag teams, because Magnezone doesn't stand a chance in hell, and even without a balloon you can seriously punish opponents who spam Outrage. BalloonTran with HP Ice (one of my favourite sets) just adds insult to injury. Or rather, injury to more injury.
    Suicune (OU CroCune) Outrage 31.9 - 37.8% 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <--- This one I found interesting. Not including it because it checks DragMag (it doesn't) but I think this shows the sheer tanking ability of CroCune quite nicely. Irrelevant though.

    So just from the top of the list of results (ignoring random NU trash like Probopass) we've got Bronzong, Landorus-T, Whimsicott (lol), Cresselia, Hippowdown, Heatran, and in certain situations Mega Scizor who can check DragMag. If we remove Fairy Whimsicott goes out the window but who the hell was going to use Whimsicott to begin with, other than Prankster team trolls? Besides, it loses if Mag packs Flash Cannon, especially since it can't troll it with Stun Spore anymore.

    Anyways, one thing I did notice is a stunning lack of Fairy types that can stand up to Garchomp's barrage. Most of the common Fairies (Clefable, Sylveon, Florges, etc.) have pretty subpar physical bulk and therefore get 2HKO'd by Earthquake cleanly. His checks are almost entirely Steel types or bulky physical walls, which does not mesh with the idea that Fairy balances Dragon. The numbers indicate that it clearly does no such thing, but I'd also take it a step farther and say that Dragon isn't overpowered to begin with, thanks to a number of things.

    -No super-effective coverage.
    -Negative effects on most usable moves (Outrage locks you in for 2-3 turns, Draco Meteor drops Sp. Atk, potentially forcing you out, Dragon Claw has a rather low damage output without boosts)
    -Abundance of Steel types (Steel is one of the most diverse types and it's easy to find a Steel type that can check Dragons and easily fit on your team)
    -Also weak to Ice, one of the most common attacking types in the game.

    One last point. When it comes to Outrage spam, I've always said and maintain to say that Fairy is worse at checking Outrage spammers than Steel. This is for one simple fact; switching a Fairy type in ends Outrage (or stops it from happening in the first place), allowing your opponent to switch or simply murder your physically fragile Fairy with its coverage moves. Steel types might take some damage from Outrage but they don't end it, giving them a turn or two to set up or kill the Dragon. This would be even more true if Steel hit Dragon super-effectively.

    I will say that perhaps Dragon could lose some resistances. It does have quite a few for a type that's supposed to be offensive, and with only 2 (or 3 in gen 6) weaknesses.
    Most of these take heavy damage from mixed Garchomp/Salamence sets. Like I said, once Steel-types are removed, nothing short of a physical tank would stop the Outrage spam, since it hits everything at least neutrally. You proved my point by showing those damage calcs with things like Cresselia and Mega Scizor.
    If you want to rearrange the type balance and remove the Fairy type, I think you should make another type resist Dragon-type moves, to make it more balanced. Their only weaknesses would be Steel, which is okay, and Ice, which usually isn't a good counter because it's a bad defensive typing. The fact that both of these are weak to Fire, which almost every dragon learns, is also a big issue. Sorry if I sound rude with this, but Outrage spam was very obnoxious back in Gen 5. The Fairy type helped with that because Outrage stopped being an insta-win button and now has to be used carefully.
    And I agree that Dragon-types have lots of risky moves. The most powerful non-signatures are Dragon Rush, which has worse accuracy than Stone Miss, Outrage, which locks the user into it, and Draco Meteor, which outdamages the next best thing, Dragon Pulse, for 2HKOs, but forces a hit-and-run strategy.

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