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Thread: What gym leader has the worst team? (not counting moveset)

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    Default What gym leader has the worst team? (not counting moveset)

    Keep in mind that I am not referring to based on the moveset, I'm referring to based on the Pokémon the gym leader has.

    Whether it being uncreative, weak or too easy. All these factors can make for a bad Pokémon team.

    As for me, the one I'm going with is Morty.

    He only has Pokémon from the same evolutionary line, that's lazy. Falkner does it as well, but that's more excusable since he is the first gym leader in the game. But seriously, why couldn't Morty have a Misdreavus?

    That's one of the biggest problems I have with Gen II, only half of the gym leaders have a Pokémon introduced in that generation. I understand options were limited back then, but that doesn't excuse it. There was at least one non-legendary Pokémon of each type back then. They could have easily given all the gym leaders at least one johto Pokémon.

    Thank goodness that got changed in later generations. In fact Wattson is literally the only gym leader after Gen II that didn't have a Pokémon from his generation the first game he was in.
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    I always hoped they'd update at least Wattson's team in ORAS to include Manectric or maybe replace Voltorb with Plusle and Minun.

    The worst gym leaders are the Kalos ones because they tried so hard to fill the teams with Kalos Pokémon. It's not that I hate Kalos Pokémon, there are just so few. Like, I hated that what's-her-face used Sylveon as her main Pokémon. Idk, just underwhelming gym leaders in Kalos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowPokeBroKing View Post
    I always hoped they'd update at least Wattson's team in ORAS to include Manectric or maybe replace Voltorb with Plusle and Minun.
    Only three Pokémon got changed in the team in remakes, they are Giovanni's, Claire's and Flannery's.

    Giovanni's second Rhydon got replaced by a Rhyhorn, which I do find stupid. He's the final gym leader, the people who made that decision were clearly not thinking straight.

    And then there's Claire who got one of her Dragonair replaced by a Gyarados. That's actually something I agree with and welcome. Her team was dull anyway so she needed that. (and no I'm not counting the kanto gym leaders in HG/SS because they're clearly post-game) I also welcome Flannery's change since it added more variety.
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    Kanto - None really, they all had a diverse team with a lot of creative moves

    Johto - Falkner for just using a Pidgey and Pidgeotto, Bugsy for using a metapod and kakuna at level 15, Whitney for using just a Clefairy and a Miltank, Morty for using the whole gengar line, Jasmine for using two magnemites and Pryce using the Dewgong line.

    Hoenn - None of them honestly bothered me

    Sinnoh - Again, none of them really bothered me so much, Volkner's original DP team with Octillery and Ambipom was stupid but his revised team on platinum was good

    Unova - The whole concept of the first gym and the fact you are almost handed a pokemon with a type advantage against whatever monkey the gym uses against you, the third gym using the Sewaddle line, the fourth gym leader using two emolgas initially, and then the rest was fine.

    Haven't played X/Y yet.

    So the only region with the most gyms that bothered me was Johto.
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    Surge in Yellow..... just Raichu. I know the game is based on the Anime but that was ridiculous.

    And Bugsy for the cocoons
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    Pretty much all of the Johto gym leaders have terrible gym rosters that underutilize the 2nd gen Pokemon (except Clair, she didn't really have much choice because of the lack of Dragons in Johto). Where is Hoothoot on Falkner's team, Ledyba and Spinarak on Bugsy's team, Snubbull on Whitney's team, Sneasel on Pryce's team, etc.? I can't really blame the Kalos gym leaders for not using many 6th gen mons seeing as there aren't many to begin with. Some of the changes to the BW2 rosters annoyed me as well, Burgh replacing his Whirlipede with a Swadloon was a downgrade when there were several options for new Bug types already (including Yanma if they didn't make the stupid decision to make some Unova Dex Pokemon post game). And then Skyla replaced Unfezant, the only Pokemon on her team that actually fit her, when she added Skarmory. Should've replaced the derpy Swoobat or Swanna (probably Swoobat since Swanna is her main for some reason).

    The Elite 4 rosters are much worse frankly, since many of them use types that have less than 4 or 5 members (Agatha, Lance, Phoebe, Glacia, DP Flint, who's choosing these types?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoruagible View Post
    And Bugsy for the cocoons
    It's a shame Bugsy wasn't 5th or 6th really, a lot of the Johto Bugs seem better suited to a mid to late game gym leader. Think about it, there's actually some decent Bugs that could fit that point in the game, Ariados, Ledian, Forretress, Yanmega in HGSS, and then he may be able to get away with evolving his Scyther into Scizor at that point.
    Last edited by Bolt the Cat; 26th April 2015 at 12:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze The Movie Fan View Post
    And then there's Claire who got one of her Dragonair replaced by a Gyarados. That's actually something I agree with and welcome.
    Imo, fighting three Dragonair on Clair's team was just annoying in G/S/C, so the HG/SS change was good.

    Falkner's team is the most pitiful imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoruagible View Post
    Surge in Yellow..... just Raichu. I know the game is based on the Anime but that was ridiculous.
    I agree, I hate with a passion how dumbed down all of the gym leaders were.

    Why would Erica get rid of her Victreebel and Vileplume for the pre-evolutions? That makes no sense.

    Giovanni was literally the only gym leader that actually got an improvement in Yellow, everyone else was either dumbed down or not changed at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-am-the-peel View Post
    Kanto - None really, they all had a diverse team with a lot of creative moves

    Johto - Falkner for just using a Pidgey and Pidgeotto, Bugsy for using a metapod and kakuna at level 15, Whitney for using just a Clefairy and a Miltank, Morty for using the whole gengar line, Jasmine for using two magnemites and Pryce using the Dewgong line.


    Unova - The whole concept of the first gym and the fact you are almost handed a pokemon with a type advantage against whatever monkey the gym uses against you, the third gym using the Sewaddle line, the fourth gym leader using two emolgas initially, and then the rest was fine.
    Misty had the Staryu line.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rovian View Post
    Misty had the Staryu line.
    Yeah, that was lazy, but that was just one gym, so I can overlook it since the rest of the Kanto gyms have a team with variety.
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    I think the worst tend to be ones that don't deal with type weaknesses well, or at all.

    Least interesting:
    Kanto: I kinda liked Surge's lone raichu, made him stand out, I disliked Brock's team because it was disproportionately tough for charmanders and bind was a nuisance in Gen 1. No rock moves in his entire gym either
    Johto: Morty is only dull if you ignore the movesets, they were quite diverse for pokemon in the same line for their generation in HG and Gold. Worst goes to Whitney's miltank though. Interesting problem with Pryce though, he has two water types and a ground type which are great for countering rock steel and fire types but he didn't teach them any of those moves in HgSS or GSC gym battles besides his piloswine's mub bomb which it can't really use well, its a shame because he could be the only ice gym leader who wasn't fragile.
    Hoenn: Roxanne, generic geodude and nosepass in a generation with two interesting fossil pokemon that could test those relying on mudkip and treedko with mixed typing. Had to wait for Grant, in hindsight, almost like Brock.
    Sinnoh: Byron, all defensive pokemon with no poison or burn in any of his battles. Just became a patience test or a chance to set up and sweep.
    Unova: Skyla: Unfezant is the worst generic bird, and nothing was very memorable.
    Kalos: Honesly I liked all of them. Ramos was very weak, but at least his team looked fun and Grass is never a challenge that far in the game.




    Most Interesting
    Kanto: Giovanni, felt like the Earth was your opponent in FRLG, in Gen I his moveset was a little weak though.
    Johto: Jasmine, seeing the cutest girl in the region care for Ampharos, be kind to everone and then BAM! Steelix shows up to wreck hard! Plot-Twist!
    Hoenn: Liza & Tate, the first double-gym-battle was fun and Solrock and Lunatone made a surprisingly good combo of slightly overleveled rivals in RS.
    Sinnoh: Maylene, Lucario alone was a decent difficulty spike if you didn't catch a ghost type, even if you did they at least tried to give her moves to counter ghosts.
    Unova: Elesa, trolling ground move users better than Surge's surfing Raichu in Stadium
    Kalos: Grant, YES! Finally a rock gym which has broken the stereotype of geodude, would be outright best if he ever taught Amaura freeze dry. Olympia was an interesting challenge too with dual screen before setting up calm mind. It was strange to fight a defensive psychic team but it worked. Unfortunately her design and gym's layout were both really bad.
    Last edited by Aduro; 26th April 2015 at 7:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    Johto: Morty is only dull if you ignore the movesets, they were quite diverse for pokemon in the same line for their generation in HG and Gold.
    I'm sorry I find a gym leader with just Pokémon from the same evolutionary line to be incredibly lazy. There is no variety that way.

    I don't care about the moveset of Morty's Pokémon. I know only four ghost-types existed back then, but there is no reason he couldn't have replaced one of his Pokémon with Misdreavus. How about the Gastly? We already dealt with a lot of trainers in the gym with Gastly, we didn't need to deal with him having it as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze The Movie Fan View Post
    I'm sorry I find a gym leader with just Pokémon from the same evolutionary line to be incredibly lazy. There is no variety that way.

    I don't care about the moveset of Morty's Pokémon. I know only four ghost-types existed back then, but there is no reason he couldn't have replaced one of his Pokémon with Misdreavus. How about the Gastly? We already dealt with a lot of trainers in the gym with Gastly, we didn't need to deal with him having it as well.
    It was a little early to bring in a ghost-type gym, but if Gen II didn't want a dark gym or two of the same type then they did okay making Morty's team diverse, they had different moves which complimented each other and he was a decent challenge. A dark gym might have been better though, houndour, houndoom murkrow and umbreon could all be used well in a gym. I prefer Morty because he was the only gym leader besides Pryce and Clair to have a real gym puzzle in Gen II Johto, and his gym was more interesting than Falkner and Norman's to me overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    I prefer Morty because he was the only gym leader besides Pryce and Clair to have a real gym puzzle in Gen II Johto
    How exactly does going to a straight path that's easy to remember exactly qualify as a good puzzle? I'm very curious.
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    You'd think that as a gen 2 Ghost gym leader, Morty would have a Misdreavus, but no. He has a bunch of Haunter and a Gengar.

    To be honest, most of the gym leaders in gen 2 have piss-poor teams. The only ones who don't, to me at least, are Whitney, Pryce, and (kinda sorta) Clair.
    Last edited by PrinceOfFacade; 19th May 2015 at 2:09 PM.
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    In addition to almost all of the Johto Gym Leaders, I think ORAS Wattson's roster is just plain dumb. No Manectric or Electrike, even though this is the remake following after Emerald, PWT, and every other continuity where he's featured with one...
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 28th April 2015 at 2:56 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Empoleon View Post
    In addition to almost all of the Johto Gym Leaders, I think ORAS Wattson's roster is just plain dumb. No Manectric or Electrike, even though this is the remake following after Emerald, PWT, and every other continuity where he's featured with one...
    It seems that in remakes only one team gets changed in terms of the Pokémon used. In the first match during the main story I mean.

    In HeartGold/SoulSilver, all the gym leaders still have the same dumb uninspired teams. Their levels might be a bit higher, but the teams still suck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze The Movie Fan View Post
    How exactly does going to a straight path that's easy to remember exactly qualify as a good puzzle? I'm very curious.
    Its in the dark and the battles distract frim it. Its not exactly tomb of horrors but compared to Falkner Bugsy Whitney Chuck and Jasmine, Morty's puzzle has the distinct advantage of existing in GSC.
    Last edited by Aduro; 27th April 2015 at 4:14 AM.

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    I think gym leaders should stop focusing on types.It's just too easy.I had to keep my pokemon underleveled in X just so it would be more fun,but I still swept their teams.They should,instead,focus on trainer class and different strategies.A Sky battle gym,a triple battle gym,rotation battle,double battle,1 vs 1,6 vs 6 etc etc.

    And don't get me started on the E4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    I think gym leaders should stop focusing on types.It's just too easy.I had to keep my pokemon underleveled in X just so it would be more fun,but I still swept their teams.They should,instead,focus on trainer class and different strategies.A Sky battle gym,a triple battle gym,rotation battle,double battle,1 vs 1,6 vs 6 etc etc.

    And don't get me started on the E4.
    I'm sorry but I disagree.

    A lot of people seem to be wanting more challenge in the Pokémon games, but seem to be missing the point that the main game is supposed to be easy.

    When a new game is out, I usually just like to finish the game, and be introduced to the new Pokémon that way. If I wanted challenge I wouldn't play Pokémon. Except for competitive play. The games are clearly not meant for that.

    So really, you want challenge in a video game? Play another game.

    I really am tired of people demanding more challenge, when being challenging is not even the point of the Pokémon games to begin with.

    Also, the reason all gym leaders focus on one type is because that teaches new players how type advantages/disadvantages work. Focusing on different strategy would be unfair for those who are new to the franchise or have limited knowledge on competitive play. And believe it or not, there are a lot of Pokémon fans who have been fans for years where the later applies to.
    Last edited by Blaze The Movie Fan; 1st May 2015 at 5:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    I think gym leaders should stop focusing on types.It's just too easy.I had to keep my pokemon underleveled in X just so it would be more fun,but I still swept their teams.They should,instead,focus on trainer class and different strategies.A Sky battle gym,a triple battle gym,rotation battle,double battle,1 vs 1,6 vs 6 etc etc.

    And don't get me started on the E4.
    I love that idea. Some of us brought that up in a different thread like a year ago. Tate & Liza are the closest we've ever gotten and they helped me understand double battles. Same thing goes for Norman and his gym teaching us about stats and battle items. Hoenn is very underrated in terms of gym leaders because they aren't just your generic monotypers.
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    DIGLETT PROBABLY HAS LIMBS THAT WE JUST CAN'T SEE BECAUSE THEY ARE UNDERGROUND. GYARADOS IS A FLYING TYPE BECAUSE OF SOME FOLKLORE ABOUT A FISH AND A WATERFALL. SKITTY CAN BREED WITH WAILORD BECAUSE BREEDING IS PROBABLY NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY LIKE SEX. PIDGEY CAN FLY BECAUSE IT'S A BIRD THAT DEVELOPS ENOUGH STRENGTH TO CARRY A TEN YEAR OLD SOMEWHERE OVER A SHORT SPAN. RHYDON CAN SURF BECAUSE THE WATER IS NOT ATTACKING IT LIKE A HYDRO PUMP WOULD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze The Movie Fan View Post
    I'm sorry but I disagree.

    A lot of people seem to be wanting more challenge in the Pokémon games, but seem to be missing the point that the main game is supposed to be easy.

    When a new game is out, I usually just like to finish the game, and be introduced to the new Pokémon that way. If I wanted challenge I wouldn't play Pokémon. Except for competitive play. The games are clearly not meant for that.

    So really, you want challenge in a video game? Play another game.

    I really am tired of people demanding more challenge, when being challenging is not even the point of the Pokémon games to begin with.

    Also, the reason all gym leaders focus on one type is because that teaches new players how type advantages/disadvantages work. Focusing on different strategy would be unfair for those who are new to the franchise or have limited knowledge on competitive play. And believe it or not, there are a lot of Pokémon fans who have been fans for years where the later applies to.
    Well,there are a lot of people like myself who play for the story itself and it's different when you sweep through a gym leader's team then when you struggle a bit.I mean,look at how hard Whitney was to beat but once you did it,you had much more satisfaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    I think gym leaders should stop focusing on types.It's just too easy.I had to keep my pokemon underleveled in X just so it would be more fun,but I still swept their teams.
    I don't think typing is so much the issue, rather than poor movesets.

    I think what gym leaders should have in addition to typing is a strategy. There is far too much 'sweeping' in the game. I think if every gym leader had a strategy to match their type and set of pokemon, battling them would be a lot more fun.

    I'd love to see a Ghost-type staller, or a Normal-type tank, or even a Steel-type spiker. I would so enjoy those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceOfFacade View Post
    I don't think typing is so much the issue, rather than poor movesets.

    I think what gym leaders should have in addition to typing is a strategy. There is far too much 'sweeping' in the game. I think if every gym leader had a strategy to match their type and set of pokemon, battling them would be a lot more fun.

    I'd love to see a Ghost-type staller, or a Normal-type tank, or even a Steel-type spiker. I would so enjoy those.
    But that wouldn't be fair to those who don't know anything about competitive play.

    Don't get me wrong, I would be able to handle that, but beginners or these that have limited knowledge on competitive play would have no idea what to do.
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    Kanto: Giovanni and Blaine. Who cares about high levels or team "variety" if everything you have dies in one Surf? I've never understood Giovanni's popularity in the fanbase due to this reason. He's a joke.

    Johto: Eh, simply looking at the team rosters, they seem kind of disappointing, but I find for the most part that they work in practice. I don't care about Morty missing Misdreavus because he has a Gengar that can easily kill my entire team. If I had to choose a weakest link, it would probably be Chuck. He's the one Johto gym leader I've never had a problem with fighting. Pryce would be second due to him suffering from Johto's awful level curve.

    Hoenn: I killed all of Wallace's Pokemon on Alpha Sapphire last night in one hit. Tate & Liza were slightly harder--they necessitated two hits each. The only gym leader that gave me any trouble actually was Roxanne and her Nosepass. But I'll blame that on 6th gym being far easier than it has any business being in general. Emerald has the best gym rosters of any game imo. It's a shame they didn't use those rosters for the remakes.

    Sinnoh: I think they all have good teams. Maylene's is probably the least compelling though imo.

    Unova: Skyla and Brycen are both jokes.

    Kalos: Each gym leader in this region could've used one more Pokemon each. I think I'll choose Korrina because every single Fighting gym has the same deal with similar Pokemon it seems like. She gets points for using Hawlucha, though. Ramos would be second but his Gogoat always gives me trouble. If I don't purposely overlevel my Pokemon (or in other words, I don't use the Exp. Share) I find the gym leaders in this game provide somewhat of a fun challenge.

    I always want to edit the gym leaders' teams whenever I play a Pokemon game, to add more challenge for myself without turning things into a grindfest that most of the hacks have a habit of doing.

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